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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  July 3, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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and they brought in evidence some thick item attached to a cardboard which when it was presented to you it was separated and that was found across from the school. baez talked about searches with shoes and shovel and so forth. and now we will talking about other things that were unusual, not even a hint of a claim that there was any form of admission of wrongdoing or any confession. no witness anywhere that she did anything to this child.
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none. three years of investigation and however much money. none. why would she kill this child? this is no evidence of a motive to kill this child. am i suggesting she wanted to party? she did that anyway. that babysitter, the boyfriends liked this child. everyone had a good relationship. why in the wore would the mother that you see in the individual joe why would most, being so devoted, protect her and take care of her and wake up one day and say i think i'll kill her. you learned about trace evidence. you learn about all the scientific stuff. but we didn't learn about was anything to link any wrongdoing as an example to the inside of
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the car. the steering wheel cover. the car seats. anywhere inside at all. jet we told, no, somebody didn't like that. or move this chloroform or whatever, and use of weapons somewhere. i suspect that you, individually and collectively, will make a much lger list than i did saying here, quickly, of the things that there iso evidence of i don't know what the odor was or what there wasn't. but i was certainly intrigued to learn that at least seven law enforcementfficers on the hunt
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did not smell any decomposition or a strong odor in that automobile. i remember mr. birch, the tow truck guy said he had a history of six or seven or eight prior expenses of decomposing humans from suicid or otherwise in cars that he had repossessed but in this one, well, there may have been a little odor but with that experience and talking to mr. anthony about his missing daughter and grand child neither he or george called the could bees but he takes the trash out of the trunk and says this is your source of smell and flips
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it over to the dumpster. all of these things start mounting up. reasonable doubt. this is about the murder weapon on the guess of probabilities, could be -- how many times did you hear "could be," or "might be," or "would be," and in the opening statement, we heard "in all likelihood." the characterization that he made himself, "in all likelihood." well, that doesn't quite make it.
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let's talk about burden proof requires and what it means and how you can think about it. you may have other definitions. if you have if you go and listen to the best arguments and the evidence and you talk about things and discuss it you may have an abiding belief now or tomorrow or whatever, that, not guilty, that is esy. in the guilty. highly unlikely that she is guilty. okay.
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good. you may find that this is likely. or unlikely. possibly not. may not be. perhaps. all these can be things, well, you know, maybe she is in the, possibly not, maybe not, perhaps, perhaps she's guilty. also means perhaps she's not. suspected. you might suspect that she's guilty. that's not proving guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. possibly guilty. possibly guilty. in all likelihood. possibly guilty. probably guilty. move it up the scale. you have probably guilty.
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probably guilty of something, but probably guilty of what. that is still not beyond a reasonable doubt. guilt likely, you may say, no, i'm confused, this is a bad deal, maybe guilt is likely but that is not beyond a reasonable doubt. and strong believe in guilt. no. no. we are back with our continuing trial coverage at the fox news channel the case to be for the casey anthony murder trial and this is against attorney cheney mason working off a chart that many lawyers have seen and you have covered a lot of trials, it is classic, it is standard, look how everything is in green but the red guilty. what is going on? >> i see tse and i get a big smile because at the public againsters office you had each of the attorneys carry this at every homicide trial.
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it is classic. defense 101 and they make it look like it is unsurmountable burden and the visual can stay with the jury and, well, i don't know, maybe they proved it but not all the way up to the red square. and cheney mason made the point that the prosecutor is the one that has the burden. he points to the difference saying they don't have a burden in this case it is up to the prosecution. let's listen to listen in to cheney mason defense counsel. that's why we have a system that says the state has to prove beyond reasonable doubt everything. if they fail to do that then no matter what you may think in this, just go down the line, your obligation is, wait, they haven't proven beyond a
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reasonable doubt. if they don't prove beyond a reasonable doubt she is in the guilty. this is not a trick. one of the things i was thinking about going back back to the list of evidence and this borrow me because i don't the antis. you don't either, i'm sure. and it bothers me. mr. baez is talking about mr. kronk. another question for you, why would an uninvolved citizen after calling police about finding a skull in the situation that is just hundreds of feet around the corner and around the row from the anthony evidence, nation wide look out.
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you all remember that? why in the world would the man it is silent for four months? i do not know the answer to that. i do in the know how he took the meter reader stick and put it into the right eye socket of the skull and lifted it, and the claim is it was found embedded in the leaves and muck. or was there, in fact, some re-positioning, something to make the case? the doctor said there was no tape on the nose. another doctor said there was
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and tape in the area of the mouth, the area of the mouth, and he concluded that the manner of death was a him side on totally circumstantial evidence because she said no child should have tape on her face. well, remember all the d.n.a., all the no, no, no, no, no, no, and dr. warren who did the super imaging stuff, said it could have. so we have in all likelihood, it could have, in the area, may have. this is not a could have or may have situation. this is a charge of murder in the first degree. and serious other charges of aggravated manslaughter and aggravated child abuse.
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we all know and accept it and i close with this. you have a duty. i have been doing this for many years. i'm an idealist and believe firmly in the integrity of our courts and in the jury system. ladies and gentleman the reality is a court is no better than each of you sitting before me on this jury. the court is only as sound as this jury and a jury is only as sound as the men and women who make it up. i am confident you will revi without passion the evidence you have heard, come to a decision, and restore casey marie anthony
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to her freedom. do your duty. i will not claim origination of that, some of you may have seen "to kill a mocking bird." i do not get a chance to talk to you again, so, pay the same respectful and intelligent attention to my colleagues whoever is up next and realizing that we got to sit over there, i have to sit over there and squirm because i can't get up and say "no, but," so i and you consider when an issue is raised and it piques your curiosity and you have not been satisfied that the evidence proves it beyond a
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reasonable doubt, ask yourself, what would mr. mason argue about that? or say in response to that? and you do your duty. you light like candles for the constitution and you do your duty and you find casey marie anthony not guilty because they have not proven her guilt. thank you very much. judge: oh sky, we will take a five minute debate before we proceed to the rebuttal argument by the state of florida. >> trying to sow reasonable doubt, that has been the defense method and mission through the day trying to show in their view
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there are holes in the prosecution case inferring that little caylee instead drowned in the swimming pool and was buried in a disfunctional family, indicating there were no shoes or socks and she was at home. many, many, many small details that go unnoticed oftentimes except at this point. and now, we will go do phil keating who has been covering the case. it is the little moments, the points that baez who brought out to show innocence and the other moments the prosecution tries to show her guilt. what are the most important elements you think will stick with the jury preparing to go to the jury room tomorrow? phil: baez has one central theme and that is reasonable doubt lives in this case.
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he cited all of the evidence that's missing, and he asked the jury he thought the young mother was dumb enough to leave her dead daughter 20' from the road but smart enough to is bamboozle the f.b.i.? there is no finger print or no d.n.a. on the duct tape and no fingerprint on the laundry bag where the remains were stuffed and he cited seven law enforcement officers responding in july of 2008 to the anthony home and seven law enforcement officers on the hunt and all of them standing near and around the car of casey anthony, they said on the stand and in testimony, they never noticed the smell of death. so, the point of raising reasonable doubt is critical for the defense here trying to spare the life and first-degree murder conviction for casey anthony.
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for the state's case, they have about 2 1/2 hours left of their closing argument. the judge gave each side four hours, and the defense is now finished their closing argument and the jury will hear in more from the against, no more from baez and they will listen to possibly the lead prosecutor and it is thought maybe the judge was going to, because it is so late, go lady and have the rebuttal closing argument in the morning but he will have it all in one day, and i believe the judge prefers it that way have all the closing arguments in one day, and first thing in the morning there will be the jury instructions read by judge perry who has run a very tight ship here including even having to possibly cite assistant prosecutor today for contempt. judge perry is reserving his rights to do that and that was
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during baez's closing argument with him smiling and laughing but it was clearly visible and infuriated baez and was a direct violation of the no gestures, no facial expressions during the opponent's closing argument. >> we saw casey a moment ago weeping and crying and in a few moments we expect the prosecution rebuttal. in our system the prosecution gets the last word and that is the last word the jury will hear before they get their charge in the morning and start deliberating. >> and the prosecution here must prove their case and we will bring you every moment of it's ? freestyle lite® blood glucose test strip. sure, i'll try it, but-- [beep] wow. yep, that's the patented
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>> we you have a child the child becomes your life. this indication is about the clash between that responsibility and the expectations thago with it and the life that casey anthony
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wanted to have. there are no mysteries to solve. if you have questions it was not proven. and that's as simple as it goes. it's as simple as it gets because that is exactly what is done. >> though's both sides, the prosecution and the against making their case. and the prosecution is up next. a lot of passion. riveting arguments by both sides before this jury and a long day and the judge says they will stay. they have been there since first thing this morning to hear what the prosecutor has to stay in their final part of their closing argument and tomorrow, jury instruction and they retire to the jury room to render their verdict. and now, our panel, joey and joining us, criminal against attorney, and a great one at that. kimberly, a fox news legal analyst, and show host here, as
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well. and, also, robert, former prosecutor and now a criminal against attorney. let me start with you, robert, you have been watching the proceedings all day and helping us out with it, at this point the defense made it seemed sort of a double closing argument first baez said he h the prosecution did not make the case and cheney mason makes the same points and one come peopling part he explains how high the burden is for this jury to convict this defendant. what do you expect the prosecution statement to be? i was impressed by the closing statement, he poked numerous holes, pointing out inconsistencies in the prosecution case and their
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theory and if he stuck to this from the beginning he would be in better position, also mason's use of the chart is something the jury can point each other to, and if someone says, perhaps she is guilty, i don't know if she is guilty, i think she did it but i don't they will be able to use that chart to steer each other to the not guilty verdict. >> iht remind the viewers it hs to be unanimous, not on a sentence but for the verdict. >> if there is one on the panel who says i will not convict her of murder in the first degree they could hang the jury and can a lesser verdict rendered by the other 11 members, or potentially a hung jury across the board and mistals are always to the benefit of the defense. >> it seemed that george anthony came up quite a bit in baez' closing argument and shifting
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the burden and possibly the responsibility for sky -- caylee's death toward her father. how do they rehabilitate that? >>guest: that is important. such emphasis was placed on george anthony, they placed him in that box that she is innocent in many ways, innocent as a child victimized, right, by her father, by her brother, brought lies and this is the only way she knows how to exist and the person that has the contact with the duct tape which is supposed to be part of the way that she was killed they can only tie however, if i'm the prosecutor, you will come out there and say, give me a break why would george anthony do this? this is a veteran homicide
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police officer, right? he will cover up a case, put the body close to the house, and would tie back to his daughter and put her in peril where she fights for his life. if he told the truth and said it was an accident his daughter would be set free, so why have the motivation to do this and.not call 9-1-1? >> joey, a big inconsistency was the chloroform, evidence that chloroform was googled and cindy the mother said she does it but they brought in witnesses from the work, her boss, showing she was the work and not at the house computer when she was supposed to be googling. there were two conflicting reports one said chloroform was mentioned once and another, 84 times. what does the jury do with that? and the facebook page of boyfriend tony that showed pictures of girls at a nightclub
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inferring there was no search for chloroform to skill the little girl, but to check out the boyfriend. did that negate the biggest issue? >>guest: it certainly sheds light upon the doubt issue, the chart that we just saw. was there and is there doubted in this case? the jury is going to evaluate that issue, the chloroform but they have to watch it with the other things that occurred. i think that baez was effective taking you through all the evidence and showing inconsistencies and attacking the process. we want you to demonize her so you would hate her and, deliver, you would view the evidence out of a tainted lens saying she goes down and then, of course, looking at the science and attacking the science, so that was effective. i might have stopped there. mason is good at what he does,
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but, come on, the jury gets it, they grow weary and i don't know that the double closing was that effective. close. be testify -- be effective and get out. you want a jury to live with the facts and still be charged, it is not something based on emotion but base things on the evidence without prejudice and viewing emotion but it is difficult because people are people and at the end of the day we all view things in, perhaps, maybe an:lañ emotional way but e jury has been there a long time and they get it and they will draw the proper conclusion, whatever that is. >> and we will take a quick break.
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and georgian stone lied about where the duct tape came from and ashton this morning said it was rare duct tape and it is and the jury doesn't believe george and it may give the defense someone to point the finger at and theyw3 have done that throughout this whole case. and suddenly did it in summation. the come purity searches made in the from home but she was at work and george anthony, they hammered the credibility all along, and what you are saying is the against gave a little bit of an advantage with what the prosecution did, and let me bring it back here. kimberly, on top of that, what video, i want to she it to everyone, a presentation made early in the case, a lot of people said it was prejudicial. let's show it, casey anthony,
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her remains. her remains as they were describing where she was found and how she was found they did transition from her beautiful face with her mother looking on, smiling at each other and, then you saw what they claimed was duct tape over the baby's mouth. and there was a lot of stalk that was prejudicial. >> it is very powerful evidence to put that in front of a jury and it is pushing the envelope. >> more prejudicial? >> i'm surprised the judge allowed this in. in a case with this, why would you take a chance and danger an unnecessary risk which, by the way, something that could be offensive and too gruesome to the jury. >> but casey they objected to? >> the whole video, in particular, is objectionable and
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i am surprised the judge allowed it. >> the broader issue? this is con seeded by the prosecution that it came from their home, if the defense is arguing that it came from the home and george lied all boat it, what does that do to the case because then you have both sides inferring that the murder weapon came from inside.a5t( if there was a murder weather. >> whether it was laundry bag or duct tape, that connects h to it. so what if george anthony bought it, she used it. >> she may have had access but the defense would like you to believe this was no murder weapon and it was an accidental drowning and now back to the courtroom, the judge is on the bench. we will hear from the prosecution, their final closing argument, this is the last thing that the jury will hear before they get jury instruction and
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deliberate. >> what they have to do is bring it back home and they have to say this is not about attacking us, we are not trying to prejudice you against her, examine the facts, a the circumstances, and it points to not the grand con conspiracy toive good you the facts and they demonstrate guilt. >> will they go point by point and counter point what baez did? >> you address specific points but you keep it in theories and you ultimate hit your point home with that opposed to getting bog the down in too many details. >> let's listen in. >> some of you are doing fine and some of you are tired i want all of you bright-eyed. it has been a long day. long day yesterday. a long day tomorrow.
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we're close to the end. again i'm going to ask that you not discuss this case among yourselves or with anyone else. we will start at 8:30 tomorrow morning. members of the jury you are now excused. >> the end of the someday for right now. the rebuttal comes tomorrow. and the jury likely to get the case tomorrow after the prosecution rebuttal and after judge perry charges them with the case. it has been a long day. a fiery day and emotionally searing day great both sides. >> supreme court has ended. >> but we are not ending. >> i asked you when the hour began, deliberate against strategy, perhaps, to put mason up, after baez, and although the
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closing argument was complete to have mason take it to the end of the day so the jury has one thing to think about the last thing they heard all against. if you do that, you have a double closing, someone who talked about what you talked about, but what you end up doing is, you have this as the last thing on their mind so what now happens, the jury now is out and they now go home or not home, but back to their hotel and they're thinking all night long about the effecve points you made so when they come back in the morning it is still in their mind. >> i said, this guy is going to love it, ashton has been taking great notes and he will counterpart and attack what they have tried to do to polk -- poke
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holes in the case. i liked to do that. you want to be the last word the jury hears while they are fresh and their ears are open and their mines are alert. and the judge instructs and you take it to him. >> you can do it right then and there. >> two different views and the prosecution will be busy tonight as they try and rebut every point of baez's against closing today and phil has been can covering the case.ó[
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the judge gave each side four hours foreclosing argument and whether the prosecutors take the remaining 2 1/2 hours necessity have -- it will start at 8:30 and the against, the prosecution and the state will present their final closing argument and that will be the last time that the jury hears from the attorneys. after that, the judge perry wilñ read the jury instructions tomorrow morning and that will take roughly 30 minutes and, then, this case will go to the jury and they will go into the deliberation room and after being sequestered 100 miles away officer home in clearwater living in a hotel down here, in downtown orlando, and basically living and breathing the casey anthony murder trial trial they
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will have the case to come upñi with all seven counts in the indictment and that is first-degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child and four counts lying to vest gators. those are, she admitteds to lying to the investigators in the defense case and those were a given that they will be convictions. the big question, did baez today, did the close, architects of -- does he raise enough reasonable doubt that they will give her a lesser offense or, perhaps, acquittal. there is a lot of evidence that baez pointed out that the state
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>> casey is smart. casey is quick. it is absolutely amazing how nimble casey antho's mind is in the ability to come up with an appropriate and believable lie in an instant. she is impressive. she actually got an amazing memory, imagine being able to remember the lies you told a year ago and incorporate that
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into a new light. it'seo3" how can they can you to do this.
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and a page of somebody that casey anthony was dating had a picture posted on it, with parting people and it said "with color form." and baez saying it would be natural for her to look that up if it was her to see what she might be getting into, in that relationship. so much evidence talked about and picked apart. how does the jury process this. back to you, and you have tried a lot of the cases. we have not sat there for 34 days. >> we have not, thank goodness, but, listen, all trials have conflicts and ultimate what it comes down to, it comes down to if the jury is determined. they are making determinations and they will not hang their hats on one thing in particular, it will be several things that are pieced together. will they buy the nearly that
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the color form was used, and maybe there is a question where it came from? was it processed? was that an implement to this along with the duct tape to, otherwise, kill her in a premeditated way or was it not? i think ultimate estimately the jury will match together everything. they will look certainly at the doubts raised by the against occurring the closing statement and look at not only the first opening statement we heard in the closing statement but the rebuttal would be important. how, now, does the prosecution come back and address this and make it compelling and just nail it home so they can get a conviction on premeditation and say this whole accident is fewer fiction. >> how long does it take? >> the jury will be fresh tomorrow morning. so that is an advantage we discussed. they can say to the jury you do not have to believe this is
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exactly how she died. but do you believe that casey anthony took the life of her child, whether it was with chloroform, whether it was with drowning, anything like that, i would not specify. and he should have said there are a number of ways and the state does not have an obligation to prove the exact cause of death. we know that this was a homicide, and we know that casey anthony had the motive to lie and the motive to kill and for 31 days showed no emotion whatever and concealed the fact her daughter was missing and knew she was decead. >> but that helps the baez argument that the point is it has not been proven how she was killed. we will continue our live coverage as the casey anthony trial in a moment.
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>> what about the 31 days where casey anthony was partying and got a tattoo?
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baez in his closing said i'm not proud of her behavior or able to justify her actions but that does not justify murder.
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what the jury will do and greatly between what they decide and what the prosecution wants, what the defense wants and a full acquittal is, most likely unlikely, but i thought it was interesting, jose baez the defense counsel says don't overcharge my client. charge her with lying to police and charge her with failing to report during the 31 days, but don't charge her with murder. >> and the effective argument? >> i think it's effective because now it's had them thinking and they're thinking intently in order to think someone of a top count that's a major step. you're talking about taking
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someone's life and now if you're saying overcharge, if you max that with the other things he's saying in terms of attacking the prosecution and why is it me who has to bring out the evidence and the scientists and not them. what are they hiding from you? now they do a compromise verdict, and that compromise verdict is a win for the defense, because it's gets you off of the top count and lesser included like man 2 and who knows, she sees the light of y. many years go by, but-- >> do they come after charge? >> i think that's george was a major red herring, i don't see them going after george. >> the defense has rested, the prosecution tomorrow has rebuttal, the last word in this case and then the jury will be charged and the fate of casey anthony in their hands. for more coverage we'll have our coverage throughout the night and justice jeanine
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pirro will example at all angles 8 p.m. eastern too many on the fox news channel and afterwards, a special geraldo on the scene in orlando, tomorrow at 9 p.m. eastern and we want to thank you very much for being with us. i'm jamie colby, thank you for being here all day for our live coverage. >> thank you so much, the live coverage of course continues not just tonight, but through tomorrow here on the fox news channel of this extremely compelling, tragic and riveting case. fox report is next with gregg jarrett. take care everybody.
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