tv America Live FOX News July 5, 2011 1:00pm-3:00pm EDT
the under belly of the plain. jon: thank you for joining us today. patti ann: i'm patti ann brown. >> reporter: getting brand-new reaction from the white house regarding very harsh criticism over their most recent stimulus report, good afternoon, everybody, i'm martha maccallum in for megyn kelly. the report was dropped late friday, right on the c, sp of the long holiday weekend and it found the massive stimulus program saved or created about 2.4 million jobs roughly overall. that is at a cost of $666 billion to american maximum payers. so that comes down to a whooping $278,000 per job. the white house says that they disagree with those numbers. mike emanuel is live at the white house with more on this to help us work this all out. good afternoon, mike. >> reporter: good afternoon, martha. critics of the stimulus package say the taxpayers did not get what they paid for at a price
tag of $278,000 per job. the white house says that number is misleading. president obama signed the stimulus package into law on february 17th, 2009, less than a month after taking office. the $787 billion recovery package was designed to, quote, set our economy on a firmer foundation. regarding the analysis of it costing more than a quarter of a million dollars job created, a spokesperson says, quote the recovery act was more than a measure to save and create jobs, it was also investment in american infrastructure, education and industries that are critical to america's long-term success and an investment in the economic future of america's worker families. a leading ceo said it is important to remember how bad the economy was at the time. >> some would point to the stimulus as we were talking earlier and say it was ineffective.
i would say i have never seen such fear in the business community as i did at that time. >> reporter: with the number of republican candidates out on the campaign trail in places like iowa and new hampshire you can expect them to target the stimulus as part of the president's economic record. some republicans here in washington are critical of it as well. >> just consider, just consider the failed stimulus bill. when democrats passed it they said it was a one-time cash infusion that was supposed to keep unemployment below 8%. two years later with unemployment still hovering around 9%, they are saying we need to keep up the stimulus level spending, despite its obvious failure. >> reporter: we can expect white house spokesman jay carney to get questions on this when he addresses reporters at 3:00pm. the report was distributed on a friday afternoon leading into a holiday weekend, so the first opportunity to ask him about this report.
martha. martha: no doubt there will be a lot of questions. we'll be watching that. mike thank you so much. mike emanuel at the white house. a leading house democrat says that it is all about the wording for tax increases, and he says that's why we're seeing a deadlock on the debt deal right now. the senate is back at work today as the nation inches closer to that august 2nd default date. lawmakers are back trying to work some kind of deal here over the course of this week. congressman jim clyburn of south carolina says that many republicans signed this no new taxes pledge and consider eliminating tax breaks the same as hiking taxes. he also suggested this a short term deal at this point may be the only viable option right now. the house is back to work at that once again tomorrow, so we'll be talking that of course like hawks all through the week, hawks no pun intended. the white house trying one more time to bail out thousands of homeowners. the department of housing and
urban development about to shell out a billion dollars to help people who are struggling with their mortgage payments. obviously that is good news for some individuals, but the question is, is it overall a good idea? stewart varney is here with me from the fox business network. stewart, good to see you. basically you would get $50,000, certain individuals over the course of two years, and then if after that you're able to start paying your mortgage payments again that debt would be forgiven. it's $50,000 in a nice check, here you go. >> look, whenever you've got a big government give away of real money, a billion dollars you'll have economic questions and some moral problems as well. for example, who gets the money and who decides who gets the money? the criticism would be that maybe those people, they've been mow lit tpoliticized, and the pt is buying folks with money. two people, equal, both in trouble on the mortgage, one
gets help, another doesn't get help, that is moral hazard, you have to ask that question as well. where does the money come from? every dollar that our government shells out, 40-cents of it has to be borrowed from somebody else because we don't have all that money, we are borrowing 40-cents on the dollar. is that moral to be shelling out a billion, and borrowing 400 million to do it? martha: the calculation there has to be on the part of the administration that it's even worth it for us to go deeper into debt for that 40-cents per dollar, because bailing out these individuals who can't stay in their home is going to ultimately help, you know, sort of prop up the overall economy, what say you? >> i think the other way around. is it worth it for the administration to spend a billion dollars, maybe yes on the grounds that it is doing something, it is showing symbolically it is doing something about this awful housing crisis. maybe there is a political calculation there. but you have to say it, this is a tiny drop in the bucket.
maybe 30,000 people will be helped with this billion dollar give away, 30,000. there are literally millions of foreclosed homes already there, and millions more to come. it's a drop in the bucket, and a billion dollars. martha: some would say there is also this government sort of glitch, it's got to all be handed out by july 22nd. here we go once again, you have to hand out a billion dollars or you'll not be able to use that money because it was always budgeted in i assume. forcing this money out, you can bet it's going to fall in some very needy people's hands and other people's hands who don't deserve to get it, frankly. >> government is always intensive bureaucrat particular, never efficient. it's goit has to have the papern by july 22nd. martha: why doesn't the bank want to work out these deals. i read sad stories in articles this morning. you'd love to help them out. why doesn't the bank say, look mrs. jones can you give me 50-cents over the dollars and
we'll stretch your loan over 15 years if it's a ten year. >> i don't know the answer to the question. martha: it would make sense. >> it would be in the better interest of the banks to say, let's do a deal, you can afford x, pay us x. martha: that's what they did in the 80s last time around. >> i can't understand why it's not happening this time around. i don't know why, martha. martha: we have to figure that out. we'll talk about that next time. thank you, sir as always. this story has clearly got the attention of this nation right now. and right now at this moment behind closed doors there is a jury of 12 men and women who are continuing to debate what they have now been listening to for weeks. they are trying to decide the fate of casey anthony. this is a live look right now at where the jury will speak to the press. this is an even usual sort of set up here. after they have reached this verdict they will file inch know the room and sit this those chairs and tell us how they reached the decision. it could happen any moment, really. phil keating is outside the courthouse in orlando. phil, once the jury reaches that
verdict we'll get the message that it is coming in 30 minutes essentially, and that's where this ball will begin rolling, right? >> reporter: yeah, exactly. judge belvin perry just walked back from lunch into the courthouse, and the jurors themselves we found out had some chic-fi-let at lunch. everybody is waiting for the jury. as soon as they come t a verdict on all seven counts they will write down on a piece of paper, we have reached a verdict. they will knock on the door of the jury deliberation room. the sheriff's deputy will get the note, take it to the judge and give it to the operations officer of the court. she emails it out to everyone immediately. 30 minutes from that moment everyone will assemble in the courtroom, casey anthony will come from the little room where she is being held under the
watchful eye of a female sheriff's deputy. she will be there, the defense attorneys will be there. the prosecution, all the media. they will hand their checklist on how they find the defendant on all seven counts to the clerk of courts, and the clerk will read it allowed. it will be a 30 of my minute process. if the jury comes upon a need to ask a question to the court they will pass a neat to the deputy outside the deliberation room and the media will get a 20 of my minute notice for that and everybody assembles in the courtroom and the judge reads their questio question aloud. the jury has all the evidence in the deliberations room. the only thing we know for certain they have not asked to look at or seen is any of the audio or video recordings that were submitted as evidence during this trial. that could have been the telephone call that casey anthony made to her parents at their house, it could have been visitations in the jail where
the mom and dad are on one side of the screen and you can see casey on the other. if they do ask for those we'll also all be brought into open court where they will then play the video clips. that, what you see there is the actual axillary room which will be the post verdict news conference room for the jurors. you see the 12 seats. they are numbered one, two, three up to 12 for the jurors. all jurors who are willing to participate in that post verdict news conference will do so after this verdict is read. martha: and nobody knows what the verdict may h-b, and they are deliberating at this moment. they've got a very serious decision before them in this death penalty, potentially this case, phil, thank you. obviously we'll get back to phil as soon as we get that word that that 30-minute warning has come down that they indeed have reached a decision. one question right now is where is casey anthony while all of this goes on? as the jury is deliberating she is being held in the courthouse holding area. that's because when the verdict is reached she has to be very close by.
she has obviously been incarcerated throughout this entire process, so it will not take her any time at all to get into that room. she's been in protective custody for three years now, being watched at all times with no access to other inmates, and what is going through the mind of casey anthony right now as she knows that the dye is cast that the evidence is all in and the jury is discussing her fate and her life at this moment. we'll get back there as soon as we get word from the courthouse in orlando. president obama back to this now, getting a big endorsement for his re-election campaign. one of the nation's largest labor unions now says this early on really in the process in a they've already decided that they will indeed back him. but could big unions actually hurt his chances the second time around? we're going to talk about that with fortune magazine columnist tphao*epb nin easton. she calls it obama's union
problem. breaking news in the search for missing college student lauren spierer. what just happened that is giving her parents some new hope at this hour. we'll be right back. >> even though i wasn't in the room with him it was clear it was lauren. hi dad, it's me. i just want to say, hi, lauren it's mom. we love you, we are going nowhere. we are here for you. we just want you to come home. sweetie i think you need a little extra fiber in your diet.
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[ ding! ] and we give you a discount on both. sort of like two in one. how did you guys think of that? itust came to us. what? bundling and saving made easy. now, that's progressive. call or click today. martha: president obama got a big endorsement for his re-election campaign from the national education association, which bills itself as one of the nation's largest labor unions. they say they will indeed back the president again in his quest for re-election. that announcement comes days after vice president biden addressed the unions members in a fiery speech. the vice president did not hold back on his criticism of what he
calls the new republican party. listen to what he had to say. >> the new republican party has undertaken the most direct assault on labor, not just in my lifetime but without any hyberboly literally since the 1920s. this new republican party, and i emphasize, this new republican party has a different philosophy. this is not your father's republican party. this is a different breed of cat. martha: all right. so our next guest thinks that labor unions are going to be a big problem for the president and his re-election campaign. she wrote a really interested piece about it. nina ea ston. a fox news contributor. unions this sr-pb supportive of democratic officials and presidents for sure. why do you think it would be a problem for the president this
time around. >> let's go back to vice president biden's comments. we are talking about there are labor leaders, mostly guys who spend union dues in political campaigns who are heavily democratic, and then there are union members. and i think republicans have always had a shot at getting working class folks, and people who are members of unions, that is fine. what is happening now, though, martha, is that the labor union leaders realize that they are not going to get what is called card check, that's that legislation that would make it easier to organize workplaces. and even a democrat particular senate didn't pasi can senatedi. they are angry at the president for not pushing it. what we are seeing is the administration's allies, people they have appointed to a lot of the boards that oversee union matters are doing a back run, end run around congress to get -- to basically to pursue
the union agenda and to make it easier to organize. martha: you talk about the union leadership we have a piece of sound here from richard tr u.n. cka that you mentioned in your piece that we want to play for everybody and get your comment on that, nina. >> we are not going to spend precious resources helping candidates that don't stand up and help for us. we'll focus on those people that help us, and we'll have more resources to spend on protecting our friends. martha: remember that richard trumka said he had very good access to the white house. he talked about his frequent conversations with rahm emanuel who is no longer there. what do you make of that that you brought up in your piece. >> keep in mind the unions spent more than $200 million on behalf of barack obama in 2008. they are not really happy with him again because of this card check issue. the president wants to make sure that they are on his side going into 2012. they have a lot of money, they have tense of millions and hundreds of millions of dollars
to spend. what they are doing is that agencies like the national labor relations board, they are changing the rules to make it easier to organize workplaces. there is something else called the national mediation board that oversees rail roads and airline industries. what i write about in my column is how delta employees voted down the union three times even though this agency changed the rules, and guess what, now delta is under investigation because their employees don't want to be unionized because they get paid better when they are not in the union. martha: it's such a great example and points directly to why you see diminishing union membership in this country because a lot of the original tenants that the unions used to support workers are not as necessary in the modern workplace as they once were and these delta workers as you point out make about 12% more than their unionized counts parts. they have generous profit sharing. and they don't want a union deal because they have a better deal
with delta. >> that's right they have a better deal. they don't need the union. they are going to keep on going. the national mediation board, where there are two owe pointies. one was an obama a pointy and another appointee, foamer union officials, they out vote the nonunion person 2-1 so they get to make up the rules as they go along. they chained a law that was 75 years sitting there on the books 75 years to make it easier for unions to organize. martha: there is an end run effort around this card check thing that didn't work as you pointed out. going back to a really good point you made earlier obviously there is a difference between the union leadership and membership. you saw biden going right after what he call the new republican party. they are concerned that the tea party and others are reaching out to some of the union membership, blue collar workers who may very much identify with this new republican party. >> i think they could identify, but also keep in mind there is
something to be said for the hundreds of millions of dollars in their dues that they are paying every month. for example at delta it would have been $43 a month for these flight attendants that they have to give to union dues, which are used to elect democratic candidates, and not everybody goes along with that, it's not a fair elections in terms of union membership. martha: great piece, i encourage everybody to take a look at it. thank you so much. good to see you. going back to this case that we are watch, we know the jury is deliberating right now. when caylee anthony first disappeared cindy anthony called one man to help her search for her missing granddaughter, tim miller, the president of texas equa search. he got very close to the anthony family. what he is now saying about the family and about this case. you will hear from him moments from now.
martha: here we go, the countdown is on for friday's final space shuttle launch. nasa is starting that countdown clock for space subtle atlantis. it will be set to take off at 11:26 on friday morning. that's only of course if mother nature cooperates. we've seen how these things have happened in the past sometimes. the weather officer is predicting 60% of rain or thunderstormsment that doesn't sound too good. they bump it up by time increments so they can do it in clear weather during the course of the day. the four crew members are in florida making preflight preparations. nasa says they are reviewing the flight files and inspecting their space suits. full coverage of nasa's final shuttle mission, this is truly the end of a big chapter for nasa and it has been an
extraordinary one. shepard smith will be live at cape canaveral for friday's liftoff. and we will join him friday for that. we are looking forward to that. there is new controversy over the banning of words like god and jesus at funerals at a tech as cemetery. this is quite a story. we started looking at this last week. more than a thousand people packed the grounds of the houston national cemetery on independence daypro testing that policy and calling for the cemetery's director to step down immediately. jaime colby has the latest on the details on all of this. >> reporter: the story we heard about on america live. there were war vets, clergy, ordinary citizens, including moms of military personnel who gave their lives. i have to send it back to you, breaking news. martha: that's right, jaime, we are about to get a verdict. that is the news that is just coming into our urgent cue here. we knew we would be getting this. didn't expect it this quickly, to be honest. there is video testimony that
has not been viewed yet but we are getting the word that there is a verdict. typically that means that about 30 minutes from now we will hear the fate of casey anthony. that jury has had about 400 pieces of evidence to look over, seven women and five men have been deliberating since yesterday, in the morning. they had so many days of listening to all of the testimony in this case, and then they had two days of closing arguments that they listened to, the prosecution and to the defense, and the closing on this case, and now casey anthony who is sitting in a small room under very close watch, in that courtroom, is just now get word that indeed they have reached a verdict. imagine the tension after all these years, three years, going through the anthony family, the mixed emotions of george and cindy anthony, who have been watching all of this so closely, and imagine the feelings that they've had going through this loss of their granddaughter, and then, you know, initially the
support of their own daughter, and then the sort of mixed thinking about whether or not casey indeed may have been involved with this. cindy anthony throughout the course of this trial has been the focus of so much attention as well. jaime colby is watching us with this as well. jaime, surprising in many ways that this is happening as quickly as it is. >> reporter: it is, martha. i think what is particularly surprising, i'm an attorney who practiced in florida is that this jury didn't come out with questions, they didn't ask to review anything or have any testimony read back to them, they do have evidence in the jury deliberation room and they haven't been able to discuss it among themselves during this entire time, 35 days that they were sequestered. the first time that they meet, which was six hours yesterday, they pick a for man, they start to deliberate this case and they are looking at, as you know first degree murder, a capital murder case that could bring the death penalty. and the defense attorneys have to be thinking to themselves, why is it that they didn't take
more time. is it so obvious that our client is not guilty, or were they so stunned by the evidence, the circumstances, the tkubt tape, the testimony, the fact that casey didn't take the stand in her own defense that they had their minds made up almost from the get go of going into that deliberation room. martha: you think about the fact that one of the clues that we got this morning that they had not yet reviewed any of the audio or video evidence yet in this trial said to me that, you know, that would be still to come, that there would be hours of them sort of looking over there. there was video from the jail where george anthony was discussing things with casey anthony. perhaps they figured they got all of it and was able to process it during the course of this trial. they've been held over this long 4th of july weekend. that has to have some impact in their interest in getting this thing moving, i would imagine. >> reporter: martha, though, if i could jump in the thin that is most compelling for jurors in a case like this that goes on are the closing arguments. when jose baez, who did the best
he could with what he had finished his argument at the end of the day they might have been swayed one way, but the prosecution came back the next morning with a rebuttal that was very strong, with elements that were very, very compelling. martha: indeed, jaime our so right. phil keating is standing by live, he's been covering the trial throughout. phil, we have a verdict. >> we do have a verdict, and judge belvin perry has put out the word, everyone is now running up into the courthouse up on the 23rd floor behind me here in orange county, orange county, florida, the most highly anticipated and watched murder trial since o.j. simpson finally has come to a near end after deliberating for roughly six hours yesterday and about five hours today, so eleven hours in total. a seven count indictment against casey anthony. at 2:15 this afternoon, so in about 45 minutes from now that is when the jurors will talk into the courtroom and sit in those seats where they have sat for the past six weeks.
casey anthony, she has been housed at a small detention room here at the orange county courthouse waiting for this verdict herself. she will be at the defense table as you have seen her every single day for the past six weeks. her attorney jose baez, and the rest of the defense team will be there, and representatives of the state of florida. prosecutor linda drane burdick as well as her cocounsel jeff ashton who was so effective as he crushed so many defense witnesses on the stand through his vigorous cross-examination ability. they will all be in there, and of course the spectators will all be sitting in all of their seats, seven-count indictment first degree murder that carries the possible death sentence, that is the big question really amongst all of the people gathering around this courthouse over the 4th of july weekend. it's become sort of a spectacular, people were off work yesterday, everybody coming down to the courthouse to see the action for themselves, of course there was really no
action outside of the courthouse everyone seemed to feel pretty confident that this jury is going to definitely find casey anthony guilty on at least some of the counts. the big question of course is whether they find her guilty of first degree murder, premeditated murder, and crucial for that to get the death penalty is convincing that jury that in fact the chloroform searches done on the anthony home in mid march, 2008, three months before caylee marie anthony died, whether those were done by casey anthony herself, and whether that duct tape was absolutely the murder weapon, because the skull, the bones had all moved out in the woods after decomposition and being moved around by animals, as well as mother nature. the actual placement of the duct tape was legitimately unknown as to absolutely how it would have been perfectly placed on the kid, caylee marie anthony when she was actually killed and placed in the woods. so the duct tape, the smell in the car, the high levels of
chloroform, and the chloroform searches are the strongest pieces of evidence presented by the state. jose baez was trying to raise reasonable doubt. he put on a very strong closing argument on sunday. pretty soon we'll see who the jurors believed. martha: indeed we will. phil thank you so much. you will be with us obviously throughout this next 30 minutes or so when we expect that we will be getting a verdict in this case, and, you know, you think about prosecutor jeff ashton, basically his argument was that nobody tries to cover up an accidental death by making it look like a homicide, by putting a body in two plastic bags and a laundry bag and covering it in duct tapes and putting it in the woods. that was one of the strongest things put forth by prosecutor jeff ashton in the final moments of this case. also the woman prosecutor that phil was talking about she came out at the very end of the whole thing and said, whose life was better after this was done? that was also a very weighty moment, and they showed the pictures of casey anthony with
the tattoo, you know, that said beautiful life that she had put on her shortly after her daughter had disappeared. and also pictures of her partying during the period she was gone. let's take a look, these are live pictures on the side of your screen that you're seeing here, as the jurors start to assemble and start to come into that room. all of that is going to take place moments from that. let's go to judge alex ferrer who has been watching the case with us throughout. are you surprised judge that they are ready to announce their verdict in this case really fairly quickly? >> i say yes and no, my prediction was two to three days, this is the second day. it's a big case, no question about it. there was a lot of evidence, but i think that by the time that we got to the end jurors pretty much knew what camp they were in. and that's what to me this verdict indicates, a quick verdict like this. there was not a lot of convincing that had to be done. there was a lot of evidence, there were a lot of jury instructions they had to go over and that took some time, but i suspect that this indicates to us the jurors pretty much knew
what side they were on by the time we got to the end. martha: you know, i've been asking people on twitter throughout the course of this and today in particular whether they i think she is guilty or not and you do get a variety of opinions. there are also, people, judge who fall into the camp where they say i think she did it but i'm not sure they proved that she did it. and we watched jose baez work very hard, if nothing else to throw a lot of possibilities of reasonable doubt into the mix here, and, you know, it remains to be seen how all of that sort of landed on these jurors and they took all of that in. >> you're exactly right, mart that. we all have our opinions and our takes on it. baez made a lot of points about where you have confusion, if you have questions, that's reasonable doubt. that is frankly not the law. you can have questions and doubts about a lot of things. the only questions and doubts that count are the ones that go to the elements of the crime. and i think linda drane burdick made that point very clearly
when she went through the final closing argument. it's a question of whether it stuck with the jury or not. martha: i was thinking about the whole issue of the trunk, because so much time was spent on whether there was a smell in the trunk, whether there was any decomposition fluid in that trunk. and in many ways if you take the trunk out of the picture, you know, and you have the chloroform search, and you have the body that was found, you could, you know, draw a line through several of those events that would also, might for many people vote to a guilty verdict in casey anthony's case. but the trunk may end up being sort of where a lot of these people are making their decisions about what happened here. >> i completely agree with you on that as well. to me the trunk was the most devastating, or some of the most devastating evidence against casey, to have various police officers, two canine dogs, the expert, the best expert on dee dee composition, they all said it smelled like a decomposing
body. that tied it to caylee, very, very strongly. that is going to be dispositive of the case in all likelihood. martha: great to speak with you. stand by. i want too remind all of our viewers at home that the verdict has come in. we are waiting for it to be announced. that will happen within 30 minutes from now. there is just a process of basically getting everyone together, getting the jury together. they are obviously all together and have been for 33 days in the course of this case, but everybody, the family, those who want to be there to hear this verdict, into that courtroom. so casey anthony is now sitting in an ante room in the courthouse. she knows that the jury has now decided whether or not she will face the death penalty, whether or not she is guilty of killing her 2-year-old child and lying about it for 31 days. she knows they have reached a decision and her life is in the balance. hard to imagine what is going through their minds and also
george and cindy anthony. i'm joined by two attorneys who have watched this with us. arthur aidala. arthur are you surprised that they are done? >> i'm definitely a little bit surprised that they are done. just to give viewers a little insight, it is hard for a viewer to imagine the anxiety right now. i mean because randy and i have been on with shep for a whole month doing this every day, i have like a level one anxiety. a year ago right now i had to take a huge verdict on a huge homicide case, you lose a little control of your body, you're shaking. martha: we saw phil keating who has been there throughout definitely out of breath as he ran back to tell us the verdict was in. as you can imagine, george and cindy anthony to await the fate of their daughter. >> what you do by nature you read the tea leaves.
where are the court officers standing, are they all surrounding her or are they a step away and possibly an acquittal. you always look at the way the court officers stand. they usually have a good idea of what the verdict is. the closer they are the worse the verdict is for the defendant. the further they are away means anybody she'll walk out the back door, maybe they only found her guilty of lying to investigators. martha: go through the counts with us. if we're dealing with a first degree murder charge here that's where the death penalty potentially lies. you go to aggravated assault or manslaughter charges, that would be the lesser charges that would mean that there is no death penalty discussion to be made by this jury. >> and you're talking about with this judge, you're looking at somewhere around 30 years in prison, and then you go down to the lower crimes, which is basically the lying to the officers. i would be surprised if he gave her a full acquittal. but i would also be surprised, because they deliberated so shortly that this is a death penalty.
before you kill someone, on a month-long trial you better spend a little bit more time going over everything, every little thing, over and over and over and over again. martha: this is the first case of this magnitude that i can remember covering that there was not any questions about, we'd like to look at this again, we'd like to look at that again, i was expecting it today on this program we would be spending time probably getting some information about what they wanted to see begin and reading into the tea leaves of that, not so. they are done, arthur. >> you hit the nail on the head. martha, it is so unusual. i had a case a couple months ago, it was a three-day trial, there were three notes. could the judge reinstruct us on the law. usually that is the hardest thing for the jurors, and i understand why because it's so complex. and they didn't ask narry a question, they didn't even ask for water or lunch. martha: i've been on two juries and there was always one person in the room that said i don't understand this. i want this reread. and sometimes it maybe everyone else very frustrated. the fact is that is the process
and they go through it. we are watching people filing into the room right now. i want to let everyone know once again we are about to get a verdict in the casey anthony case. this has been going on for three years. she has been in jail waiting for this moment in her life to find out whether she will walk out the doors or whether or not she will get some variation that could go up to 30 years in prison. as was pointed out earlier today, others in her situation have got even around 30 years, arthur who have been convicted of killing children, and no prior convictions along the lines, around 30 years for most mothers who kill their children. >> it's 30 years for aggravated child abuse. 30 years for aggravated manslaughter of a child. one year per count for lying to an investigator. 30 years if she gets found guilty of the aggravated child abuse. 30 years for aggravated manslaughter of a child. one year per count for the four counts of lying to investigators. that's what we call her exposure. of course there is the top count the felony murder which i
thought the prosecutor did a great job wrapping up the definition of it yesterday, which is, and this is -- if you think she wanted to give her a little chloroform to put her to sleep so she could go out partying and she died. that's felony murder. we'll find out in a few minutes. martha: quite a moment that we are about to witness here for casey anthony. you know that is the question, why has this case garnered so much attention of the nation? we all remember those 31 days when casey anthony for some reason could not find her child, and then the day that the body was found not far at all from the anthony home. geraldo rivera has been covering this from the gentlemen beginning. he joins me now from outside that courthouse in florida. geraldo your thoughts on the fact that this jury without asking for a single reread of any of the testimony, or a single question of this judge has now reached their verdict. >> reporter: well, martha i think -- let me tell you what jose baez thinks because i spent
time with jose this morning. he was fearful that the jury would come back in a hurry and rush to judgment, so to speak, and what the great fear is that they bought the entire prosecution case, from his point of view, they bought the entire prosecution case and that casey anthony will be found guilty of the top charge that arthur has been describing, capitol murder. whether or not they'll go for the death penalty obviously we'll find that out in the next phase, if it is a death penalty says, then the sentencing will take 48 hours for them to come back, and then render the judgment of whether or not this mother will pay with her life for taking the life of her child. but the general co consensus on both sides of the aisle so to speak is that this quick jury turn around represents a guilty verdict on at or very near the top charge, which i disagree with, but my opinion is obviously worth nothing here, it
is the opinion of those 12 men and women on that jury, and the fear on the defense side is that they paid the kind of proforma attention to the evidence. they rent through it. we heard they went through the actual testimony and then rushed through it appeared the audio and video evidence, now they have come to the conclusion that the state wanted them to, that this woman, this narcissistic, selfinvolved, selfish woman, frustrated by her unwanted pregnancy at the age of 19, wanting to live, you know, la spayed bella vida, but also la vida loca did the unbelievable and took the life of this precious child. i think if they don't get the premeditation, if they don't have the chloroform and they can't do the premeditation i don't think there was a chance of them getting the felony murder because there was no
aggravated child abuse. where is the aggravated child abuse. every witness testified as jose baez pointed out in his closing argument, every witness testified that she was a great mother. every video you see, every still shot you see is of a well cared for, well fed beloved child. martha: can i ask you a question about that aggravated child abuse could be in one instance. it could be that they decide they use chloroform on the child. >> reporter: i disagree with that. martha: to see date her so she could party, or have a good evening out. why can't aggravated child abuse occur in one instance? >> reporter: well, there is only one case in which a court has ruled that it can, that case is currently under appeal, martha, and the state's proposition that by putting not one tape, but two and three pieces of tape, if that's what casey anthony did to caylee marie, that that constituted several instances of child abuse so to speak. i think that is a real stretch.
i covered lisa steinberg, the joel steinberg murder trial. i covered others where children have been tortured over months, sexually abused over months, chained to cold water bathtubs, burned with significance ritz. aggravated child abuse, you know it when you see it and i think that has certainly not been established by the state in this case. however, the quick return of this jury, i have to come back to that, is clear to me that they did not want to consider how many moggots they were, the dna or absence there of, the fingerprints, was the heart-shaped sticker 30 feet away from the tiny tragic remains of this child, all those things. it just really seems that they went through it a through z, one swipe. they had already appointed their foreman, now they are ready to go home. i think the results will be for casey anthony the worse possible
option. obviously i would disagree with it, but on the other hand, you know, again, my opinion matters not in this particular case, martha. martha: geraldo, thank you. stand by because we are minutes away, everybody at home from finding out this jury's verdict. we watched moments ago as george and cindy anthony entered that courtroom. they have been there every day. the only exception was when they walked out during the graphic photos that showed the skeletal remains of their grandchild, caylee marie anthony. what a story it has been to watch george and cindy anthony throughout the course of these events. that is a live shot of the courtroom as people filing in, joined now by you randy and arthur aidala who have covered this throughout with shepherd every afternoon. we haven't heard your shots on how quickly the jury has come back. >> i'm not surprised. i think they had pretty much determined perhaps from the get go, i think from the moment that jose baez gave his opening
statement that she was responsible in some manner for caylee's death. it was a matter of determining, okay, what level of responsibility. i don't think they are coming back with a murder one. i have maintained that they were going to come back with aggravated manslaughter, however i think in light of linda drane burdick's closing argument and the way she ended with the tattoo and going through the behavior, the difference really goes to what you do with the body in terms of killing won someone. what i think the jury is going to do here is take the depraved indifference from the perspective of what she did with the body afterwards, dumping it in the swamp, and taking that depravity back in even though they shouldn't and they will convict her of murder 2, that will be their compromise verdict. martha: here would be the aggravated child abuse, i've got to tell you randy, i do disagree with you. >> you always do. >> i am surprised with how fast the jury came back. all i will say about what
geraldo said, martha is conventional wisdom around the courthouse is a swift verdict when charges are this serious is usually a positive thing for a defense, because you'd like to think if 12 people are going to condemn someone to possible death they are going to take a little bit more type. they haven't even deliberated 12 hours. martha: anyone you discuss this with outside the courtroom. as geraldo points out these are the only people who matter these 12. i was surveying people all weekend. people are all over the map on this. that is why i'm surprised this is happening so quickly. they've been held a longtime. i think juries do an excellent job of taking their job very seriously from my personal experience, but i just -- it's hard to imagine how they were able to wrap this up so quickly, honestly. >> i think to arthur's point i think they have taken the murder one and taken it off the table. i think they took an acquittal off the table and took the murder one off the table. they threw out the high and low. >> compromise verdict. >> i agree that, yes, you're going to really take your time
and ask some questions and make sure you understand premeditation. so i definitely think that they've tossed those out and they were hung up between, okay is it aggravated manslaughter or is it something more and i think in this instance given the way caylee's body was treated, and given the ridiculousness of jose baez's opening and giving them the story that they in no way could sell and her behavior. martha: linda drane burdick said at the end of this case all you have to ask yourself is whose life was better without caylee. she also talked in that final statement, you know, the child was left by the side of the road. >> i mean left, and eat even by animals. by the way i think that was completely wrong of the judge to allow in, pwau those graphic images of a skull being eaten by animals and bones being eaten by animals that depravity that ups this from the aggravated manslaughter to the murder 2.
>> it's very inch tphrapl story. >> this is getting tossed no water what happens. i think that's what put her in harm's way. >> on judge jeanine's show she ran a profile on each juror. i believe it's juror number 4 who basically said she is not even that comfortable with the death penalty. they rehabilitated her enough so she is on the jury. boy will i be surprised if somebody who said they are really kind of not too comfortable with the death penalty, within less than 12 hours is ruling on a thing and they are going to come back wi n 48 hours with the death penalty. martha: she is catholic and she said she didn't believe in the death penalty. they were able to get her to the point where they felt comfortable to having her on a death penalty trial. it's an interesting assessment that they could bring her around in that short of time. >> you also have juror number 5 who wouldn't look at jeff ashton. this is where arthur and i for once agree.
i think they've tossed out the murder one and they are coming back either with aggravated manslaughter or if they are really angry at the way she treated caylee after she was dead and the redick lessness of their defense, the drowning and blaming it on their father that may bump it up to the murder 2, which is wrong legally but that's what they may do. martha: it will be so interesting to hear from the jurors after the fact. we'll hear this verdict within the next several minutes, folks. keep it right here, the and on s are in the courtroom and this is about to come down. let's bring in jeanine piro on this. these are live pictures now. there you see george anthony with his hands in a prayerful pose in the back of that room, and cindy anthony looking about as she waits for this verdict on her daughter's future moments from now. let's bring in judge jeanine piro on this as well. just your initial thoughts jeanine as we wait. >> well, you know, i think that this is a case where because the jury has been sequestered for so
long, i have predicted that they would be homogoneous. they know each other. i think this speaks very poor low for the defense. you have a jury that has been focused on this and this alone for almost eight weeks. i believe it's going to be a murder one, but even if it is not the premeditation there is the aggravated child abuse which bumps it up to a murder one and then makes it a death penalty eligible crime shifting this whole thing to the penalty phase within the next day or two. martha: let me ask you this. in terms of the murder one in your mind does that come down to the chloroform? does it come down to searching for the chloroform on the internet and if so we heard cindy anthony directly say that that could have been her that did that, then we saw that sort of blown apart on the stand as well. >> martha we not only saw it blown apart. cindy anthony was shown to be a liar.
the issue now is whether or not she will be charged with perjury for stepping in and trying to take the premeditation out of the murder one. you've got three pieces of duct tame and evidence of chloroform. let's assume we forget about the clear a form martha, you have three pieces. i would instruct the jury as a judge in a murder case that premeditation can be formed almost simultaneous with the act itself. you have three pieces, you have to tear them separately, you are thinking. intent does not need to be formed two weeks before. it can be formed not very far from the actual act itself. martha: it's going to go to how deliberate of an act they think this was. whether or not they are throwing out the idea that this was an accidental death and perhaps an aggravated child abuse event, whether it was a single event. how deliberate? when we initially heard about the duct tape it was one piece that maybe they found, it had a heart sticker on it. then you started hearing about it being wrapped around the head, all of these things have to go into the jurors' minds
when they are trying to reenact based on what they heard in evidence what happened in this situation. >> but that deliberate act, martha, doesn't need to be more than one act for the aggravated child abuse. if indeed there were three pieces of duct tape and that ended up causing her death that is a special finding under florida law that makes it felony murder and makes it murder one. we can get rid of premeditation, we can talk about aggravated child abuse, it brings this jury to the same point and remember judge belvin perry was very strong in the courtroom when he said you must convict at the highest charge of which there is evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. we are a country of laws and we must follow the laws. his message to that jury was if the evidence is there i don't want to hear any sympathy, i don't want to hear that, you know, you're not sure about whether or not you should sit in judgment you've got a job to do. and i guarantee you when this
jury comes out several of them will be in tears. this is not an easy thing for any jury to do this is a very somber moment for each one of these jurors to make a decision as monumental as this. martha: judge jeanine piro we will will be back to you in moments. we are awaiting the verdict which is in. the verdict has been decided in the casey anthony trial. we will get the verdict in moments. we are looking now at the faces, see with see them somewhat obstructed in the back row the there. george anthony and cindy anthony, the mother's 911 call that is forever in everyone's memory. when she said it smells like a dead body. there was a dead body in my daughter's call. i think everyone can relate to the fear and immediacy that was in her voice during those
moments. we watched her if indeed she was lying to protect her daughter on the stand that is a question that needs to be dealt with. trying to protect her living child who lives in her home and it seems me opened the door and perhaps killed, perhaps. >> the best evidence for the prosecution in that case is the 911 call. it's before cops are involved, lawyers are involved. judges are involved. public relations firms, it's pure, unadulterated evidence. my grand daughter is missing and it smells like there is a dead body in the trunk of her car she can't be cross-examined on that on that particular day, and the prosecutor highlighted that. martha: you know what the defense said about that. they said the only word we have on this is cindy anthony in terms of whether or not there was ever a body in the back of that truck. >> you have a couple of issues. first of all again as you aptly
know you have cindy anthony saying it. jose baez did a good job in his closing argument saying there were a whole bunch of of people by the car that quite fran lee didn't smell any. let's not forget this. let's assume for the moment that caylee's body was in the trunk of that car that still doesn't make premeditation and it doesn't make it aggravated child abuse because she is already deceased. again, could they punish casey and do something that the law doesn't allow them to do which is say you abt depraved, you act this and what you did just goes so far behind the pale in sticking your daughter in the trunk that we're going to hit you harder than we should, they may very well, but that is not enough for murder one. >> what baez said in his summation which was right on, he articulated the prosecutor's strategy, and it was the first week of trial to make you hate the defendant so much that when the actual evidence came in those jurors are looking at that evidence with a skewed eye, with a painted glass, glasses on them
so it looked different than it actually is. you want her to be guilty, you want to convict her, because the first week of evidence about tattoos and partying, and her lies. martha: this is why we heard about sexual abuse by the father, this is -- there was an effort that was made to make this woman into some kind of a victim, to put some sort of vulnerability around her and some sort of blame on someone else. >> what you and arthur just said is really the truth of what goes on in a trial, justice, forget about it, trials are not about justice they are about winning. the prosecution wants to win the defense wants to win so no similar that the thee, no emotion, that is ridiculous, linda drane burdick's closing argument was all about emotion and anger and getting the jury angry. she wants to winment casey anthony's lawyer he wants to win, jose baez sex-abuse, drowning, this. that and the other you want to win and the two of you just highlight the lengths that we go to as prosecutors and defense lawyers to win. it ain't about justice. martha: randy and arthur we're
going to be back, nobody is going anywhere, folks, we are phoeplgts away from a verdicmomn the casey anthony trial. this is fox news alert. the verdict is in. the jury in the casey anthony trial has reached a decision after just about nine hours of deliberating this case. keep in mind they have had 33 days together to consider 400 pieces of evidence in this case. we are waiting for that verdict, that is a live picture of george and cindy anthony as they await their daughter's fate moments from now. we have team coverage of this story. phil keating who is at the courthouse in orlando. criminal defense attorney arthur aidala, former prosecutor randy zellen, all with me here. phil keating let's go to you first. we are moments ago. it looks like pretty much everybody is in the courtroom. >> everybody but casey anthony the defendant. she has yet to enter the courtroom but this is now 15 minutes away from that 2:15
eastern time verdict in the most highly watched murder trial here in orlando, florida. casey anthony accused and charged with killing her daughter, then two years old, caylee marie anthony three summers ago almost to the day that we had this trial underway. the door we have on the video camera that you see inside the courtroom, that big tall brown door that is the door through which casey anthony will be talking through shortly. she's been held in a small detention cell, detention room here at the orange county courthouse and waiting for this jury to come in. they began deliberations yesterday, july 4th, the holiday at 12:12 in the afternoon. breaks, they have been deliberating for about a total of 11 hours. the big question, will they come back with that first-degree murder conviction or not find her guilty of that? and if they do, will they then recommend the death penalty?
if they do, that means two days from today, thursday or friday depends on how the judge wants to do it, then we begin the death penalty phase. >> we have jose baez just walking into the courtroom. that was a live picture of him entering, a man who most people had never heard of before. some people claim casey anthony could have had any defense attorney that she wanted, and she had jose baez. a lot of criticism of the way he handled this case throughout really, including the discussions many of us had with him before the trial began, arthur. >> i really shy away from criticizing attorneys in his position, you know why, martha? we know maybe 10% about what's going on. the other 90% is all behind the scenes; his relationship with his client, what she's telling him, how involved she is, it is so -- unless you walk this that person's shoes, you should really hesitate before you take
their legs out from under them. martha: all right. let's go to judge andrew napolitano from the newsroom. your reaction to this very quick decision as we wait? >> well, some of us have been arguing all along, the judge in this case is another prosecutor in the courtroom and has established an atmosphere in that courtroom in which it would be fair to conclude that casey is probably guilty. and as even arthur pointed out a few moments ago, the judge permitted the first two weeks of this trial to be evidence generated by the government which was intended only to induce hatred by the jury of casey. who would want to be tried by a jury in which the jury -- martha: judge, hold on one second. this is a live shot, casey anthony entering the courtroom. everybody's there now, basically. and we are ready to hear this verdict. we were told it was going to be 2:15. is it hard to imagine, judge, that they're going to have everyone sit there for 12 more minutes as they wait for this? >> i would think he'd probably
come out now, and i will tell you from having been there, the judge's heart is pounding just as aggressively as are the lawyers' in the case wanting to know how this thing is going to end. his own career is on the line as well as jose baez's and the career of the prosecutors depending upon what the outcome is here and what an appeals court does with this very public case. martha: yeah. there she is, casey anthony. we have watched her for three years now throughout this process as she tried to explain away what had happened to her daughter who was missing for 31 days. she took the police, basically, on a wild goose chase. took them to universal studios, said she worked there, then she revealed she didn't actually work there. they tried to get her to admit what happened, was it an accident? she never went down that road until they walked into the courtroom and suddenly jose baez brought forth this story that the child had drowned in the pool and that george anthony, who's sitting there holding a bible in the back row of the courthouse, that he was
complicit, and he helped her to get rid of the body. that whole story we heard very little about in terms of any evidence to back up that story. and as arthur aidala pointed out moments ago, these are the products of conversations that have gone on back and forth between jose baez and casey anthony as they worked together to try to keep her free from the death penalty and perhaps even to be acquitted. most of the voices that we've heard here today seem to believe because of the timing of this that it falls somewhere in the middle, that this will neither be an acquittal or a first-degree murder charge, although there are some in the panel, judge jeanine pirro held out the possibility that could be a first-degree murder charge as has geraldo rivera. let's just listen to the sounds of the courtroom for a moment as we listen to this to play out. all right, we're not privy to that as of this moment. geraldo's standing by. as we watch and wait, geraldo,
there's not too many words to say as we look at this moment and the faces in that courtroom. >> reporter: you know, martha, the -- right now i've got a pit in the middle of my stomach waiting for this. you know, it's been part of our lives for three long years. we were down on this story just several days after the child went missing or at least three days after the 31-day hiatus after the child was dead either by drowning or by her mother's hand. and now to see it all play out and to look at this 25-year-old woman, the lady who had the unwanted pregnancy at 19, lived with her parents and her brother in this relatively smallish home here in orange county, florida, you know, acting out her personal trauma and drama as this case unfolded. you know, how could she, the feeling of 99% of the people watching this program right now, how could she be so
narcissistic, so selfish? how could she because she wanted to leave her parents' house and have the life that the youngsters on orange avenue, you know, that kind of free-living central florida life, that's what she coveted to the extent that after being a great mother by all accounts, taking care of this child, nurturing this child then all of a sudden decides to kill this child. and now the jury has rendered its verdict. i really do believe that it will be stern justice. it will, it will be retribution and justice. it will be society's revenge against her and justice. but i do believe that the brevity of the jury's deliberation bodes very badly for this young defendant. and, you know, you look at her, you look at that severe look, no makeup, you know, i've seen the bags under her eyes get deeper and deeper, the lines in her face, obviously, etched in her own worry. you've seen her sometimes sitting alone at that defense
table having conversations with herself, her mouth moving a little, eyebrows going up and down as if she's contemplating, you know, whether this bit of evidence or that bit of evidence went for her or against her. but now the die is cast. now the verdict has been rendered, and the fact that it was nine hours -- but it's not really nine hours. first they've got to get into the deliberation room, then they pick a foreman, then they did, you know, i think the bare minimum in terms of reviewing the evidence, and, man, the first second they could they announced that they are ready. and they are definitely ready. they've been in prison themselves in many ways, this jury. martha: yeah. geraldo, i thank you. and we're waiting, as soon as the audio opens up from this courtroom, i promise we will take you in there live. casey anthony, as you can see on the right-hand side of your screen, has been biting her nails and looking down. one can only imagine what this is like for her and what this experience has been like for her regardless of what you think of this young woman, and i'm also
always struck in this story by the missing father, you know? i mean, who is this child's father? the one element in this poor little baby's life that we will never know is who was the father of this little girl? judge napolitano, one of the questions that's been raised here is whether or not judge belle vin perry at this point, would he have been told by a court officer what the verdict is? does he know? >> >> you know, that's a very good question. in some states it's impermissible for court officers to tell anyone, even the judge. in other states the judges want to know what the verdict is, they want to see it in writing to make sure it is announced to the world correctly because sometimes the people doing the announcement in the courtroom are not familiar with this. my guess is he does know, he has his own copy, he'll read it silently to himself as the clerk reads it aloud for all of us to hear. martha: you look at casey anthony, back to the panel now.
when she was arrested, i saw images of her, i think last night. when she was first arrested, she was almost haughty. you know, it was a different casey anthony that we saw. she was looking around at everybody when she was first led out in those handcuffs when we first saw her. now three years later she is gaunt, and she has been in many ways very responsive to what has gone on in this courtroom as we've watched her react to it. >> she's gone through a total metamorphosis from cater caterpr to butterfly. there was a state of shock initially. i think everyone, when she gets arrested she realizes i just killed my child, or my child is dead. don't forget she's been incarcerated this whole time. not a fun experiencement and i -- experience. and i wish i had the words and i was articulate enough to describe what she's feeling right now. guilty, innocent or somewhere in the middle, it's impossible to tell you the tremors, the physical body, your blood pressure's going up and
dropping, and you're light headed. there sometimes becomes a part when you're in control -- you're out of control. you can't control -- martha: shaking. >> -- your own body, and that's a very interesting feeling. >> can i know that arthur and i have experienced it sitting next to defendants, and as a lawyer to me the best way i could describe it is take the theirs -- lawyers, take the millions of people who were watching this trial also with their hearts probably in their throats, and take all of that, and give it to this woman who we're watching on the screen and try to imagine. she could be meeting her maker. i mean, this is literally you are standing at the door waiting for judgment day. martha: that's one of the things that's been so puzzling about watching casey anthony through the course of this because there's been times when she broke down in the tears. we know of the lies that she told during the course of this, and you never really know are you looking at an honest reaction or not? >> you'll ask five people, and you'll get five different
opinions. no one will ever know except her. she knows if her tears are genuine or if she's trying to put on some sort of an act for a jury. martha: and she has been from the beginning, you know, everything you look at and talk to people an unsympathetic character in this story. and that, you know, has been a difficult hurdle, obviously, for the defense to overcome in this case. and you wonder what these jurors think of her having watched it -- >> i was about to say, you wonder about that behavior, and you wonder whether that plays into the prosecution's theory or plays into the defense's theory. her behavior is so bizarre, so out there, so beyond the ability of anyone to explain. and since so much seems to be kept out of this trial and away from jury about the family, about george anthony, about lee anthony, about cindy anthony, who is the father of this child, you wonder whether or not that behavior may actually have kept her from a murder one conviction. >> even the motive in this case,
arthur, the supposed motive of her wanting to have a free life, she lived -- the grandparents were active grand parents. they seemed very happy to take this child any mount of the day. -- moment of the day. it wasn't a case where she was trapped. she had all the freedom in the world. >> you are right on. that's why i will be surprised and really disappointed if they find for murder one because it's not there. and, you know, on shepherd's show and i've been raring as a prosecutor, but i have been consistent in saying should she go to jail for decades? the that's one thing. but is this murder one? that's a huge issue. i know by law the prosecutor does not have to prove motive, but as human beings we want a motive. these grandparents couldn't get enough of this little girl. she could have said, look, i'm moving to ireland, she's yours. and i think grandma and grandpa would have been fine with that. martha: they would have. >> that is an unbelievable point that you, arthur aidala, have just made.
it's so true, and again, you wonder how that's playing in the jury's mind. regardless of how you feel about cindy and george, whether they told the truth, what's going on, they were doting grand parents. this man, by all accounts, wanted to kill himself over his granddaughter. casey could have left a note saying, i'm gon see ya. martha: it appears that way. you think of the video of cindy anthony helping the little girl into the pool, and i thought to myself -- okay, here we go, folks. let's listen in. >> you -- let the record reflect that the defendant is present along with counsel for the defendant. both sides ready to proceed? it's been brought to my attention that the jury has reached a verdict. state? >> the state's ready to proceed, your honor. >> defense? >> defense is ready. >> to those in the gallery, please, do not express any signs of approval or disapproval upon the reading of the verdict.
>> will the defendant rise along with counsel? madam clerk, you may publish the verdicts. >> in the circuit court for the ninth judicial circuit in and for orange county florida. state of florida v. casey marie anthony. as to case number 2008v if 156-06150. as to the charge of first-degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilt, so say we all dated at orlando, orange county, florida, on this fifth day of july, 2011, signed foreperson. as to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict as to count two, we the jury find the defendant not guilty, so say we all stated at orlando, orange
county, florida, this 5th day of july, signed foreperson. as to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at orlando, orange county, florida, this 5th day of july, 2011, signed foreperson. as to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. so say we all, dated orlando, orange county, florida, this fifth day of july, 2011, signed foreperson. as to the charge of providing false information to law enforcement officer, verdict as to count five, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. so say we all dated orlando, orange county, florida, this fifth day of july, 2011, signed
foreperson. as to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count six, we the jury find the defendant not guilty -- sorry. we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charge inside the indictment. so say we all dated orlando, orange county, florida, this fifth day of july, 2011, signed fore foreperson. as to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count seven, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all dated orlando, orange county, florida, this fifth day of july, 2011, signed foreperson. >> madam clerk, you may poll the jury. >> juror number one, were
these -- [inaudible] >> pardon? is. >> juror number one, were these your true and correct verdicts? is. >> not guilt. >> were they all your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number two, were these true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number three, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number four, were these your true and correct vects? >> yes. >> juror number five, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number six, were these your true and correct verdicts? is. >> yes. >> juror number seven, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number eight -- >> yes. >> juror number nine, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number ten, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> juror number eleven, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> and juror number twelve, were these your true and correct verdicts? >> yes. >> thank you. judge? >> will counsel and the defendant approach the podium?
not all the counsel but just representative sample. casey marie anthony, a jury of your peers have found you not guilty as to the charge contained in count one of the indictment, murder in the first degree. at this time i will adjudge you to be not guilty. as to count two, the crime of aggravated child abuse, a jury of your peers having found you to be not guilty, the court will adjudge you to be not guilty of the crime contained in count two. as to count three, aggravated manslaughter of a child, a jury of your peers having found you not guilty, i will adjudge you to be not guilty of that count.
as to counts four, five, six and seven, providing false information to a law enforcement officer, i will adjudge you to be guilty of those counts in order that you be fingerprinted in open court at this time. and order that you be fingerprinted in open court at this time. [inaudible] be in open court.
[background sounds] >> okay. mr. baez, mr. mason? will you be prepared to go to sentencing thursday or friday of this week? >> [inaudible] >> okay. then we'll set sentencing thursday at 9 a.m. in this courtroom. okay. are there any other matters that we need to take up at this time? >> nothing from the state, your honor. >> ladies and gentlemen of the jury, on behalf of the citizens of the ninth judicial circuit i would like to express my sincere
thanks and appreciation for your service as jurors. you all are residents of pinellas county, florida, and we came over there, met with you, questioned you and took you away from your families for a very extended period of time. and for that i say thank you. as i told you when i first spoke with you in talking about jury service that one of the most important obligations of citizenship, in my opinion, was service on a jury. i told you it was very important that if we believe in that constitutional provision, that provision that provides a right to trial by jury, that it was important for people to serve no matter what that sacrifice would
be. as you can tell by some of the questions that some folks answered, a lot of people did not want to serve. and you knew it would be a hardship, and you were candid with attorneys. you answered all their questions, and you served. and for that we thank you. i would also wish to advise you of some very special privileges enjoyed by jurors. no juror can ever be required to talk about the discussions that occurred in the jury room except by court order. for many centuries our society has relied upon juries for consideration of difficult cases. we have recognized for hundreds of years that a jury's deliberations, discussions and vote share or remain their
private affairs as long as they wish it. therefore, the law gives you a unique privilege not to speak about your jury work. although you are at liberty to speak with anyone about your deliberations, you're also at liberty to refuse to speak to anyone. a request to discuss either your verdict or your deliberations may come from those who are simply curious or from those who might seek to find fault with you. from the media, from attorneys or elsewhere, it will be up to you to decide whether to reserve your privacy as jurors. again, thank you. you're hereby discharged, and i will see you shortly back in the jury room. thank you. >> all rise for the jury.
[background sounds] >> you may be seated. this court is in recess. martha: smiles, hugs, tears, joy all around at the defense table. the attorney who was once dubbed as somewhat hapless in this process now looks like a genius for, basically, throwing everything he could into the minds of those jurors to give them at least some ounce of reasonable doubt. he clearly achieved that. this is an unbelievably joyous scene we're seeing at the defense table. and the other big piece of news from the reaction in this
courtroom was the stone-faced reactions of george and cindy anthony who shortly after the verdict was announced got up and left the room. geraldo rivera with me now, what is your reaction, geraldo? >> reporter: oh, my god. it is a stunning verdict. of it shows how little legal pundits know. it shows that they did consider the evidence and reject much of the state's case. these jurors who were death penalty-qualified instead chose to believe that the state had not convicted her above and beyond and to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt. she has walked on the homicide charge. it is an absolutely breathtaking reversal of fortune. i believe that jose baez is owed an apology by much of those who
have watched this case and demeaned and belittled his presentation. i think that this is incredible. do i necessarily agree with this verdict? no, i don't. i believe it is much more likely than not that this woman was partially at least responsible either alone or in concert with others for the death of that beloved child. but i also believe that there was ample evidence presented by this defense, there was no dna, there were no fingerprints. how could there be no fingerprints on that duct tape? they knew that heart-shaped sticker found in the trash 30 feet away was not put on, and that is three years of propaganda against this young woman and against her counsel, and now guess what? justice has come home to roost. she still is in jail, she has been convicted of lying to the cops, but you have to remember, martha, she's been in jail for three years already. these are four-year raps, each
of them. now, maybe the judge in annoyance because of his pro-prosecution leanings will make these sentences one after the other, sequential rather than concurrent, and make her spend more time in jail. if he does what is customary in these cases -- and nothing in this case has been customary -- then it is possible that on friday this young woman will walk free. imagine that. imagine that, a woman who we felt just hours ago, just an hour ago could have been walking down the green mile, down the last walk to the death chamber, the lethal injection that they use now that they've finally retired that grotesque spark, the electric chair here in florida, that she would be sitting there some years from now with needles in the her vaips, forfeiting her life for that of her child. instead what do we see?
we see 12 death-qualified men and women from a neighboring county who were not subjected to the daily propaganda battering that this defendant got ruling that she is not guilty of taking the life of that child in any way, shape or form. i can only surmise, and we can listen to the jury, that aside from the lack of physical evidence, that aside from the cause of death what they in part put their verdict on was their own experience as parents. they know that abusive parents are abusive not suddenly, not, you know, i just got the idea to kill my kid, that this was a loving mother. every picture they saw showed how this mother cared for that child making the state's thesis, in the minds of these jury apparently, unlikely. they couldn't see her as a killer. it's clear to that, martha, and i'm telling you this is a -- simpson was different. i was online for simpson, and when simpson came down, we
expected that hometown, inner city jury to acquit him because johnnie cochran showed the racial divide in los angeles, and he rode his train right through it. this was not a hometown jury. this was a jury who we felt was as hostile to this defendant as the tv-viewing audience. but i'm telling you, this is something that i never expected. am i happy about it? no. because i think she has escaped bearing some responsibility. but why i am happy as an attorney is that there were many, many reversible errors committed. they threw everything at this defendant that they could. they spent millions, and they did not make this stick. martha: geraldo -- >> casey anthony is on the verge of being a free woman. martha: i'm so taken with what you're seeing and also with the images we're watching on our screen right now. because casey anthony is giggling like a schoolgirl. she's laughing, she's happy, she's smiling, and i can't get this image of a child in a bag
that somebody left by the roadside who has received absolutely no justice at all today. we will never know. somebody put that child in a bag and left her in the woods. and we're getting hugs and cheers and everyone's delighted all around and big joy, smiling faces. and this child is gone from the face of this earth after only two years, you know, of life. and everybody, you know, it's a happy, happy moment here. casey anthony's smiling and laughing and hugging, and it's bizarre to me. >> reporter: i've got five of my own, martha, as you know. the last three of them girls. i looked at caylee marie's picture can and those videos, and i feel as you do that the child has not received justice. but that jury rightfully said, well, wait a second, why were they searching there in the same exact spot where they found the body a month later? the jury is looking at odor evidence? did they ever admit that odor
evidence in any other trial in any other jurisdiction anywhere else? and how trustworthy is that? that chart that cheney mason, the other defense attorney showed, it's not about maybe guilty, probably guilty, almost surely guilty. it's about guilty beyond and to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt. and you want justice for that kid? what if, just what if, martha, and i'm sure the jury was thinking this, what if somebody else did it? is what if father that we don't know anything about, what if he did it? what if george was as abhor rent a personally as jose baez makes out? look at this guy. this embattled attorney who has impoverished himself for the last three years and endured the slings and arrows of a mass media pointed his way, shmuck, incompetent -- martha: i couldn't agree more. >> reporter: and now guess what? guess what? he is the triumph of the century. now, we all know it ain't over
until it's over, and there's going to be civil litigation and all the rest of it, but for now this is unprecedented. martha: all right. geraldo, stay with us. i just want to let everyone at home know we're about to hear from the jury. that room we showed you before they will file into, and as the judge pointed out, they can talk or not talk, but we're going to hear from the jury moments from now. i want to go to the panel and bring randy and arthur back in because someone else who felt dissatisfied, it seemed clear today, was george anthony and cindy anthony. amazing reaction from the parents. you see all these hugs all around the defense table, but the parents of casey anthony looked shocked in the back of that courtroom, then they got up, and they left the room because this opens the door to everybody who's been watching this case thinking that, well, maybe george anthony had something to do with it afterall? >> >> let's just take it one step further, martha. why wouldn't they want to stay in that courtroom for that celebration? why wouldn't baez ask the judge -- martha: because they made it
perfectly clear at several points in this case that they believe their daughter did it. >> well, i -- they are not happy. in other words, what would be typical in be new york with baez saying, your honor, would you allow a courtroom visit with her mother and father under these extraordinary circumstances? >> martha: they got up and left the room. >> and let me just say, martha, you're going to hear so many people say over the next two days, oh, i knew -- that's garbage. nobody thought this woman was getting acquitted of all the charges regarding murder. nobody except maybe randy, nobody thought this was going to happen. martha: let's replay this video of casey moments ago. hugs, high-fives all around, big smiles. she is, she is likely to get some time on these charges of lying to investigators, but let's face it, she's going to be alive, and the chances that those will run probably concurrently, lying to the investigators charges -- >> i have a very strange sense that as judge napolitano has
pointed out, and i usually yell and scream. i am, i'm speechless. but i'm happy because we have the greatest system of justice in the world, and this is why. because you take 12 citizens who hear evidence, and they make a decision. as human beings. and they made a decision, like it or not. and we are so lucky to be judged in that way. martha: randy, i'm telling you, anyone who goes back in their mind over the course of this case, this mother didn't tell anyone her child was missing, she led the police on a wild goose chase. why? >> her lawyer said she knew she was dead -- martha: yes. and the child was found. we found a body, the duct tape was linked to duct tape that was at the house, the searches for chloroform were done on the home computer, there were questions and intense, you know, discussion -- >> but to make randy's point -- martha: a stench coming out of this young woman's car, i understand what you're saying, it was not proven.
and that's why you're glad about the -- >> and it's an american virtue. it's why we are lucky. because a lot of those jurors are parents, and they feel the same anger that you're expressing right now, martha. >> don't be surprised if you hear at least one say she probably had something to do with it. martha: oh, noment i'm sure you're right. >> but the state overcharged the case. martha: and that was said by many people we talked to here including you early on. they're going to file in a moment. i want to get a quick thought from judge napolitano, though, on his reaction to this. judge? >> i'm as stunned as geraldo, arthur and randy are. but they understand the system, and the system makes a value judgment. the value judgment is it's better than a thousand guilty people go free than one person whom the government is unable to prove guilty with but may be guilty be punished. look, the value judgment is we're judged by a jury of our peers, and if government cannot
prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then the person is free. doesn't mean they didn't commit the crime. it means that the government didn't meet its burden to prove them guilty, and that value judgment has been one of the core principles that's kept america the freest place on the planet. martha: yeah. you know, i -- the last time i remember this sort of collective feeling by the populace watching something like this was after o.j.. and that was a beloved figure who, you know, sort of -- nobody could believe the details of that case as it started to come out because everybody loved o.j. so much, and he was such a great guy, and it couldn't possibly be the case. in this case, judge, this is a woman who was reviled from the get go. everything that we learned about her led her to become one of the most unsympathetic defendants that we've seen in this kind of high-profile case that i can remember. >> and the reviling was so extensive that even professionals like geraldo, like jeanine pirro, like randy, like arthur, like me were seduced by what went on in that courtroom
where all things seemed to be going against her, where even the facial expressions of the judge and virtually all of his rulings were going against her. we were all stunned when we heard the reeding of the verdict -- reading of the verdict. but the jury did what jurors are supposed to do; not decide whether or not she is guilty, but decide whether or not the government proved her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty, and they decided that the government did not do so. martha: judge, you know, much will be said about jose baez and the story he presented in the his opening argument which was that the child drowned in the pool and that george anthony helped casey anthony to cover it up. now, they did not find the prosecutor's statement on that persuasive, that nobody covers up an innocent death by making it look like a homicide. they did not find that persuasive in this case. you know, it's just, it's so unbelievable to me that they, that nobody, nobody is going to take any blame for the death of this child. >> i don't think anybody's going
to take any criminal blame for the death of the child. it is peculiar that the parents stormed out. there were some allegations that the father may have had something to do with it. my own feeling is that the state is going to give up the ghost on this case. they're not going to prosecute the father for anything. but the outcome with respect to justice for the child is an empty one. the outcome with respect to justice in society is that the government was held to its proofs that the government had to follow the law no matter how overwhelming was the impression that this woman was guilty. martha: boy, and there it is, that moment. they looked over at their attorney, they got up, and they walked out. after their daughter got the news that she would live to eat see another day -- live to see another day for sure and may spend a few years behind bars, here comes the defense getting ready to speak -- >> cheney mason -- martha: all right, there's jose baez and the defense team. they're coming into the room. this is the same room where we're going to hear from the jury moments from now.
there's just some sort of perfunctory announcements being made about how all of this is going to come forward. let's listen in. jose baez and team, here they go. [inaudible conversations] >> [inaudible] are you ready, jackie? >> yeah, thank you. >> my name is tor think simms -- dorothy simms, and i am thankful for today's verdict on behalf of casey anthony. and on behalf of all of the people that stand behind me. and i would ask them to name their names, please. >> william -- [inaudible] >> michelle medina. >> [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> [inaudible]
>> wallace. >> shirley mason. >> [inaudible] >> >> [inaudible] >> well, i hope that this is a lesson to those of you having indulged in media assassination for three years, bias, prejudice and incompetent talking heads saying what would be and how to be. i'm disgusted by some of the lawyers that have done this, and i can tell you that my colleagues from coast to coast and border to border have condemned this whole process of lawyers getting on television and talking about cases that they don't know a damn thing about. and don't have the experience to back up their words or the law to do it. thousand you've learned a lesson, and we appreciate the jury and those of you that have been objective and professional. we like it. others, we're going to be talking to again. thank you very much.
>> i want to start off by saying that while we're happy for casey, there are no winners in this case. caylee has passed on far, far too soon, and what my driving force has been for the last three years has been always to make sure that there has been justice for caylee and casey. because casey did not murder caylee. it's that simple. and today our system of justice has not dishonored her memory by a false conviction.
um, i want to thank everyone who stood behind me and who supported me throughout this time, and especially the man who took me under his wing and made sure that i stayed focused and that we continued to work hard and that we continued to fight in battle. um, it really is a -- i really do have mixed feelings over the whole situation for those facts. the, this case has brought on new challenges for all of us; challenges for the criminal justice system, challenges in the media, and i think we should all take this as an opportunity to learn and to realize that you
cannot convict someone until they've had their day in court. we have the greatest constitution in the world, and if media and other members -- if the media and other members of the public do not respect it, it will become meaningless. and today and yesterday on the fourth of july there was, there was a breath of life in it. and, um, i think i want to, also, acknowledge the prosecutors who worked hard for justice as well. i think they are a fine group of prosecutors. linda drane burdick is an
incredible adversary. and, um, i think that she's certainly one of the best lawyers i've ever seen. frank george also was a very important member of that team that really held them together and made them very cohesive, a cohesive unit. and mr. ashton is a fierce opponent, and i, um, i think that the state of florida, all three of them serve the state of florida very well. as i said, i'm not as -- i'm very happy for casey. um, i'm ecstatic for her, and i want her to be able to grieve
and grow and somehow get her life back together. i'm, i think that this case is a perfect example of why the death penalty does not work. and why we all need to stop and look and think twice about a country that decides to kill its own citizens. murder's not right no matter who does it whether it's a ritual killing or someone becoming a victim in a drive-by shooting. it's disgusting. and i think if this case gets any attention, it should focus on that issue, that we need to stop trying to kill our people. um, i -- the, the best feeling
this baby died before her time. who threw her in a bag? who put duct tape on her skull? who threw her in the swamp? look, at the end of the day i believe in the american criminal justice system, and when my prosecutors came back with a not guilty verdict, i always said you accept it, and you move forward. but i want to know was there justice for this little girl? the will she ever get the justice that she deserved? her life was taken from her. who took it from her, we don't know. i can understand if they don't want to go for murder one erik erik -- but you couldn't go for any level of time. this woman will walk on thursday with time served. martha: yes. >> why was she lying? if she had nothing too lie about, why did she lie? is this a message to people in this country that if you lie about something and make believe it didn't happen, people will buy into it and think it didn't happen? this child is dead!
no one is ever going to account for that snuffing of that life. martha: but what this jury has said is that it was not proven to them based on the evidence that they were presented with. so i ask you this, jeneane, in your mind what piece of evidence would you put in front of them right now and say how could you have overlooked this? >> well, you know, they haven't, they haven't spoken to us yet, martha. i mean, when they said not guilty on all those counts, they said that it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt. i will be interested to find out whether or not they think there was no involvement or whether they think there was but the prosecution didn't reach its burden or the defense threw enough against the wall that they couldn't be sure. but i'll tell ya, the one thing that bothers me is the fact that you have duct tape near a body and the mandible still attached, martha, that's not roy kronk who didn't know anything about this other than he called the cops and then they gave him hell for
calling and wasting their time. who puts a mandible or tapes and sticks a jaw to the skull? it doesn't happen until, how can i say this, that that child, the tape was put on before the child died. that is the one thing that they cannot take away from this case. duct tape was put on before she started decomposing. what i want to know from this jury is what they think happened to caylee. what they heard in the last eight weeks. and i want to know why casey anthony's own mother and father who thought she was guilty walked out of that courtroom. martha: yeah, me too. that was quite a stunning moment. and you think about the family dynamic that we've witnessed in the anthony family, just everyone at home, this is casey's reaction when she heard those verdicts. and you just imagine the sense of relief that went through her body. that is cindy and george.
looked at each other, looked at their attorney, got up and walked out. their reaction to the verdict that their daughter was not guilty in the death and the murder of their granddaughter? stone-faced reaction from the back of that room. randy, what goes through your mind at this moment? >> it's at least consistent because this case has always been about behavior. so we saw behavior during the trial, now we look at the bizarre behavior of the parents. we look at the behavior of casey after the fact. you got it exactly right. no one is denying the fact that caylee is dead. >> that's why i think baez's comments were excellent. martha: i did too. very gracious. >> exactly right. always right -- all the right things. he's, clearly, anti-death penalty guy. but it's not the same type of elation where you feel you've
acquitted a factually-innocent people. i've been lucky enough to be in those shoes. you're jumping for joy because you really believe a factually-innocent person who was wrongly judged was walking out of the courtroom. in his opening statements he admits -- now, whether he lie today the jury, i don't think that he did -- casey knew that her daughter was dead, and she went out and acted this way for a month. and that in and of itself all though it may not be death penalty-eligible, in the course of human life and human -- martha: this is one of the big questions here. that admission in and of itself -- >> right. martha: how does the jury get around that? >> it's because they -- well, we're going to hear. martha: willing to treat this body in such a way after an accident, let's assume for a moment that his opening argument is true. >> there's too many reasonable doubts. and i wouldn't be surprised if they don't bring up what you brought up earlier, martha. there was no motive, and there was just too many -- there wasn't one fact where a prosecutor could look in the
jurors' eyes and say, ladies and gentlemen, here is the fact that shatters all reasonable doubt. here's the dna, here's the fingerprint, here's the -- martha: i was asking judge jeneane moments ago, what is the one thing you would say to them, how could you possibly overlook this? >> what happens in this case as arthur and i have been dealing with this every day, is that when you overcharge a case and you come forward with a motive and the prosecution clearly came forth with a motive, that was their achilles heel. they reached too high up, and the jury couldn't get up there with them. the bottom line here is what probably happened was somewhere between an accident and maybe something a little bit more than an accident, but never an intent to kill. never, there was never any evidence of child abuse. and when you overcharge a case, sometimes you leave a jury -- it's like falling short of the finish line. >> i'm just out of gas, and i'm not getting there. martha: nobody's ever going to get past what jeanine pirro was talking about. somebody wrapped duct tape
around this child's head, put it in two plastic bags and tried to hide what happened. >> who? >> the problem is before you say a 20-some-odd-year-old is going to go to jail for 30 years, look, i was once saying that i thought the jury was going to convict exactly why jose baez said they were going to convict, because the prosecutor did a masterful job getting you to hate her -- martha: when you say who, they say the same potential who looked up -- person who looked up chloroform on the internet, the same person who lied and lied and lied about where the little girl was. >> and the same person who was supposed to protect her. >> and the same person who when the prosecution's closing argument, they opened by showing a video of that monster bouncing her daughter on her lap. tell me how you're going to convict this woman? martha: i could show you -- i'm sure there are great pictures of susan smith and her children, and andrea yates and her children. >> but the prosecution, they
made that a focal point of this video. photos of a seemingly loving mother. >> >> i really hope the jury speaks to us. i had information, martha, from someone who was down at the courthouse and said the jurors are all dressed up. they're dressed differently than they were every other day which, hopefully, leads you to believe they're going to speak. let's face it, especially as a trial attorney, you're dying to hear what's going on in the jury's mind. you're dying to know how they reached this verdict that we were all so wrong. even geraldo who is so in the corner of justice, he predicted a swift murder one conviction, and we got nothing. >> that bears comment. commentators bashed the hell out of jose baez. but for mr. mason to get up here and try to really -- and i hate to use this lawyer/judge term -- chill, to chill the people who come on, this is, again, one of
the things that makes this country so great, that we can get up there and talk freely about these things and offer our opinions and offer to the world where we think things are going without having to worry about being vilified -- martha: what he's saying, randy, what he's saying is nobody out there, all of us knows what he knows about this story. be all of us, here we go, right? casey anthony will be free to write a book, tell her story, talk about the abuse or whatever it it was. now she's completely free, right? she can say this is what happened. >> oh, absolutely. double double general by -- jeopardy, she can't be tried again. >> she'll have to be careful. >> under the son of sam law, can she make any money off of it? if she wrote a book about this incident and she gets a million dollar signing bonus, because she was actually convicted of
something -- >> yeah. >> there may with an issue as to whether she can collect. martha: it would not surprise me if this judge finds a way to do that. >> she's going to be a celebrity. >> no doubt. >> she's going to get a line of pocket wooks, it's going to be discussed. martha: gentlemen, thank you. there's the message of the day, folks, a smiling, divisioning, you fore rick casey anthony after she received the news she was not convicted in the murder of her trial. we will be analyzing this story throughout the afternoon. the jury will be telling us, most likely, a wealth of information and the insight into how they made this decision. more coming up throughout the hours on fox news channel. thanks for watching, everybody. i'm martha maccallum. studio b with jon scott in for shepard smith starts right now. jon: breaking news in the casey anthony trial, not