tv Taiwan Outlook PBS October 9, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
there are circumstances under which it would be ok to vote far right in a runoff election. it is not just france, bythe way. all of europe. we will see why in the france 24 debate. and we'll have our media watch segment. let's say hello once again to claire. >> shame on you, shout protesters as the head of the european commission and italy's prime minister visit lampedusa. a state funeral will be held for the victims of the boat disaster. egypt sets a trial date for mohamed morsi who has been held at a secret location since july. he faces charges of inciting murder and violence. france reveals the names of two more journalists held in syria. their families did not want
their plight made public. first, it really is to hold a state funeral or the 300 african migrants who died last week when their boat sank off lampedusa. the announcement was made on a visit this wednesday alongside the head of the european commission. dozens of people hurled abuse at them. echols and the billing, a hostile reception -- heckels and booing, a hostile reception on wednesday. they paid their respects before the hundreds of coffins and the -- of those who perished. they also visited a refugee center, meeting with emergency workers who deal with hundreds of new arrivals every week. >> this visit has been an opportunity for us to listen to the messages in the request to people here.
which means today we, as representatives of the government, alongside representatives from the european commission,, we are able to go forward within our respective capacities. we are now able to act knowing what the necessities and priorities are. >> italy is calling for decisive measures that will curb the number of asylum seekers landing on italian shores. many locals say they are living on the front line of the eu's failed migration policies and this visit is too little, too late. condolences were offered and sketched out the forthcoming project, and new border surveillance initiative. >> i think what we have witnessed here, so close to the
coast, should never happen again. that i believe through cooperation, much more can be achieved. indeed, i have to have a word of gratitude to those countries that are receiving many refugees. >> he also announced the allocation of 30 million euros of additional funding for italy to manage these waves of migration. november four, that is when mohamed morsi is set to go to court in egypt along with 14 defendants. he will stand trial over the killings of protesters outside of his palace last december. more on the dramatic reversal of fortune. >> from president to prisoner. mohamed morsi saw his fortunes rise and fall. not the most charismatic a location, the group selection
made him the first incredibly elected president. his honeymoon was to prove a short one. in november 2012, he gave himself wide-ranging powers, putting the presidency of the the regional courts and dissolved the upper house of parliament. one month later he pushed through a islamist constitution. it was too much for opponents began turning out in protest that spilled over into battles with supporters of the muslim brotherhood that left 10 dead. by june, 22 million egyptians were calling for the president to step down, twr voted him in. on july 3, the military moved in and morsi was arrested. they crashed all signs of dissent in the weeks that followed, leaving more than 1000 dead.
morsi now faces exactly the same charges as his predecessor. >> those replaced morsi and his cabinet are said to suffer a financial setback. u.s. officials said the obama administration plans to cut hundreds of millions of dollars in military and economic assistance to egypt.pthe decisin of events including recent violence against protesters. the head of the chemical weapons watchdog has called for temporary cease-fires in syria to meet disarmament deadlines. the first one is november 1. so far officials have been cooperating with international disarmament experts. >> i would say the syrian authorities have been cooperated. they have one ambassador from
damascus in town and they have sent two experts who are consulting with our experts, next week also, to put together the initial declaration and preparing the plan. >> and france the government has revealed the names of two more journalists in syria. they were kidnapped in june but their families did not want their plight made public. >> a slip of the tongue and the news was out. into an interview on french radio, the prime minister named two journalists taking hostage -- taken hostage in syria. the number of french journalists held in syria is up to four. he was working when he was kidnapped in the north of syria
on june 22. his family had received word of him in august. since then, no news. >> it has been more than three months. almost four since he was kidnapped. so we decided today to send a message to him and his kidnappers and to all authorities were people who could influence those who are holding him and work for his release. >> the ngo reporters reports that since the beginning of the conflict in 2011, over 16 syrian reporters and journalists have gone missing, 15 foreign correspondents, and others remain unaccounted for. this makes it the most dangerous country in the world for journalists and even veteran reporters are at risk. the french foreign ministry has
said everything possible is being done to ensure all of the journalists are released. they have been charged with piracy and now russian investigators say they are considering more charges against the green peen -- greenpeace activists. according to the investigative committee, what appeared to be hard drugs were found on board. >> the arctic could be facing new charges. russian authorities said they were considering charging several of the activist with what they called serious crimes. that could include threatening the life and safety of an official, a major offense in russia. greenpeace criticized the harsh detention conditions. >> i'm seeking an urgent meeting, offering to come to russia in exchange for the
release of the activists and to stay in russia as long as the trial takes. >> greenpeace stage a protest on an oil rig last month. 30 people were arrested and put on the tension for two months. they could also face drug charges after investigators announced they found narcotics. the 30 activists are charged with piracy, which carries a sentence of 15 years in prison. a russian judge denied bail to three of them. >> that is that is it for now from the newsroom. time to go over to francois for the debate. >> here is the short version, and unit growth, double-digit employment, and the unpopular socialist president. his predecessor was clear, in a campaign probe, mccullough sarkozy should be fencing
chances of revenge at the ballot box. instead the former prime minister has thrown down the goblet. he said come what may, he will be running for the top job in 2017. to shed a somewhat technocratic image, he has been getting feisty or but it turns out it means courting the far right. casting doubt on the so-called republican packs, the call to preferred the red -- to the left to the national front. mainstream conservatives attacking the right after the anti-immigration garnered 16% in the election. they are now threatening to sue those who call her far right. it is not just france. belgium, italy, and austria have had anti-immigrant parties in the past years.
the mainstream right is losing the argument. today, the call of the far right, and joining us from bath, aurélien mondon author of "the mainstreaming of the extreme right in france and australia ." mark deen and mathieu doiret, director of polling at ipsos, the conservative party. they have so far declined our invitation to take part in this discussion. you can join the conversation on facebook and on twitter. f24debate. seven months from european parliament, just to put in perspective. a new poll has one in four voters picking the national front for european elections.
mathieu doiret, that poll puts the national front of 24% ahead of the mainstream conservative party. the socialists 19%. is that what you have been finding as you track the run up to those elections? >> it is probably a little premature. what is appearing is the current situation, not necessarily the situation seven months from now but now it is clear that the far right is on the rise in europe. i think the recent change probably favored even more this rise because currently the far right is at the center of a political debate. not only because it did what it
did but the other ones pushed it to the center. for political reasons. >> other parties have pushed the far right to the center? >> it has been several weeks now. and now because they are reacting to this move, the mainstream political parties, they are all taking side on the issue when there is no concrete reason why we should focus the debate on that. >> aurélien mondon, do you see, you just heard what mathieu doiret said, a poll is the snapshot. do you see the possibility of a national front coming out first in those european elections? >> i think it is a possibility. polls are showing it could be in front. it is not a question of france or europe but also other parties
. that is a clear problem. what he was saying about it being brought to the center, i would be careful with the wording. it is a radical form of right. be careful the way we use the center and the mainstream. they are not fixed terms but more fluid. they move around. you can be redefined easily, as we have seen when it comes to far right or the radical right rhetoric. >> we are going to look about the wording and how you focus on that. you mentioned the context of what françoise has been saying. here we can show you first of all, before and after, here is what he said in the month of me. nicolas sarkozy thinks we should fight the national front because
we would lose. i think we should fight it because i consider it to be outside the bounds of the republican pact. the idea that the mainstream socialist conservatives will vote for each other rather than let the far right win an election. that was then. this is now. telling supporters to forget the republican pact. there are cases where it is ok to vote for the national front in a runoff. yes, fighting sectarianism is the responsibility of the socialist hardy, which has to ask about its relationship with the far left before lecturing others about republican values. >> remind us, what kind of reputation did he have, for people who do not know france? >> he was seen as the centrist
or the left of the right wing party. the centrist in any case. it is important not to make too much, i think the problem is they have been endorsing these ideas for years. it is through read between the lines. the dog whistle messages. and complaining about children not being able to eat pain au chocolat. in the long-term, it is strengthening, it is creating fertile ground for the national front. >> francois fillon, when he says it is ok under some circumstances, he said i was maybe a little bit clumsy in the words i used that he said it could happen.
he said a reporter asked him can a socialist be more sectarian on the national front? he said it can happen. >> it is important to say he has said this was a deliberate, this was not an accident. it was a calculated decision to say something. let's talk about him specifically. he is clearly doing politics. he would like to be the next candidate in the 2017 elections. that is part of what this is about. he needs to broaden his base and break some dishes to get ahead in his race. but also, you can step back and say, look, the national front is doing 30% in opinion polls. it has been for some time. he has also said we have to
address this. we can't sit here and pretend it is not happening. 30% of the population, we can't ignore them. >> there are voices such as the former foreign minister who says, we are not going to play this game. >> that is a different strategy. the question is whether that game is winnable. >> is the game winnable, aurélien mondon? >> it is an interesting strategy. it is starting early. we are far away from a major election. the european elections are second-ranked elections. there will be a abstention. like the next presidential election, i think it is early for fillon. i think it shows something that
is deeper than just strategy. i think it shows the mainstream toward the right because it is something that has been done for years and facilitated by sarkozy's president. i think it is this language that has become normalized. this is what is worrying. it is not even just a strategy. it is just a natural thing to say. >> as we said, this is coming into context of him throwing his hat in the ring for the presidential election in 2017. sarkozy has been cleared this very week from one legal hurdle in a quest for a comeback. his facebook page is saying "i am innocent after being cleared from the financing" of his
campaign. if sarkozy does run, fillon could have a tough time out flanking the president who went to the southeastern city after firefights had erupted with police and working-class neighborhoods. >> we are suffering the consequences of 50 years of immigration insufficiently regulated. the french nationality should be earned by those who can prove themselves worthy. >> on twitter, i will get your reaction to this, mathieu doiret --sarkozy, the only politician in france who can put up a serious fight against the national front in 2017. >> i think there are two different parts of the so-called republican pact. do not ally with extreme parties. imo certain they will never be a formal alliance between
mainstream parties and extremist parties. it could be a major shift in the political positioning of the national front as happened in italy in the 1990s. for the moment we can project. >> so even though the leader of the far right says she is no longer far right. >> on the other hand, there is one covenant which has been in place a long time. and has been very often broken in recent years, the past few years. about topics that one should not use talking about immigration, crime, associating oath topics. the way politicians address these issues is clearly changing. not only because the national front is rising but also because the demand exists within all constituencies.
i think this covenant is being broken by fillon and sarkozy and also by -- so we are in the process -- >> the interior minister. >> it is a systemic change of the political landscape. there are topics that are now considered to be deemed important and must be addressed. >> that are no longer taboo. mark deen mentioned one day while ago, the leader of the mainstream tea party, exactly one year ago, it was the race against fillon. he had this to say in a rally. >> there are some areas where i can understand the frustration of some of our countrymen. fathers and mothers returning from work in the evening and learning the kids have their
pain au chocolot snatched from kids who say no eating during ramadan. >> aurélien mondon, when you come back to france, do you sense change? >> i do not really. what i sense, i feel like people are anxious. about how people want more security, i think it is true. people are worried. i feel secure when i go to france. and yet we watch tv and so on, you have people feeling this insecurity. i think this is related to the rise of nationality. do people want this kind of language, doesn't become popular because it is televised?
in 2002 when he created this earthquake many commentators have talked about, the party was stagnating. it had hardly grown since 1988. since those presidential elections. a few hundred thousand votes. what happened was very poor results of the mainstream parties. we saw that in 2007 when the right tried to capture the electorate. it worked, as the tweet was showing. sarkozy might do it again. we saw what happened 10 years later. 1.5 million voted. again, we are moving the center to the right. and what the mainstream means. >> like her father, crowing it
is better to choose the original. for instance, showing tough love to migrants and asylum seekers after the boat disaster. >> clearly we have to set of the immigration policy. we have to tell them although we have nothing more to offer them, they should not come. he can't let them have an ounce of hope tomorrow they can slip through the cracks of the system and live in france. in lampedusa they were young men and most of them believed we wanted to come to france because france is the most attractive country in all of europe for illegal immigrants. that encourages them to take risks and it ends in tragedy cracks when you hear statements like that one, would you say she has gone mainstream? >> i mean, everything is
relative. everything is relative. there is no longer a holocaust denial element. there is no longer an anti- semitism aspect. these things are, in essence there is a modernization. >> she does chastise islam. >> absolutely. she was actually saying it there. anti-immigration is something which is, i think a hallmark of far right parties across europe. >> i think we can joke and say the national front is almost the only party in europe which is moving to the left. from its former position at the least. it means contrary to the general trend, and even for a far right party, she is definitely attempting something that increases the speed of its
normalization. not only modernization but she is going mainstream. but the general trend is a major right-wing shift. so it is easier because the political opinion is moving to the right. >> aurélien mondon, she is no longer a holocaust denier. she does not like her father who celebrated the french collaborators, who collaborated in the charlotte mine division with the ss. would you say she has gone mainstream? >> i would not, not at all. i think there were many signs during the 2012 campaign that showed she was not going mainstream at all. she is brilliant strategically. it is the work of 30 years of
rehabilitating the far right, extreme right. when her father, about these terrorist attack, there was a naivety and she refused to condemn her father's a statement. there was a complete dichotomy. they said he was a madman. this was the tip of the iceberg. you talked about it before, it is a stigmatization of islam, it is not a question of these people -- >> i cap to interrupt you
because we have to take a break. we will pea -- pick up on this point. stay with us. it is the france 24 "debate." >> welcome back. before we resume, let's give you a sample of the stories at the top of the hour right here on france 24. a bit of a rough reception for the head of the european commission. shame on you, shunned protesters, as he visits lampedusa. accompanying men well barroso there. egypt sets a trial date for mohamed morsi who is being held at a secret location. he is facing charges of inciting to murder and violence. france goes public with the names of journalists held in syria since the month of june.
four french reporters currently held. the foreign ministry says they have freese improved they are all alive. families did not want their plight be made public up until now. and barack obama is expected shortly to name the first ever, nominate, rather, the first ever female leader, janet yellen, to lead the federal reserve. the senate is otherwise occupied right now with the shutdown and the negotiations over that in washington. the stories and much more on the top of the hour right here on france 24. welcome back or if you're just joining us. this is the france 24 "debate." we're talking about mainstream conservatives in france and how that is playing out across europe in these times of crisis.
with us to talk about it, aurélien mondon, the author of "the mainstreaming of the extreme right in france and australia." why france and australia? >> good question. i get asked it often. because they are two different stories historically. -- countries historically. so they come from different historical backgrounds but we saw in the 1980's a similar drift toward the right and a new form of radical right, which i compare in the book. which shows something that can be generalized across the western world, this right-wing move in politics toward populism and what i call new racism.
>> differential is in. i just want to say hello again to mark deen of bloomberg and mathieu doiret at ipsos. you just heard the remarks by aurélien mondon, a lot of it is about identity. the issue of the economy not doing well. >> identity from a narrow point of view. and every day life point of view. the more and more confrontational aspects of living together in multicultural society and the rise of the islamic community in europe is the main issue. the visible last backed of ethnic -- the visible respect of ethnic differences has increased and a feeling of losing one's
identity may have risen, too. it is all about a general feeling that the old way of living is vanishing and nothing replaces it that is clear and defined in reassuring and comfortable. >> aurélien mondon, do you agree? >> i think there is a problem of misinterpretation. many polls are showing, in the campaign in 2012, it is not islam. it is not a clash of civilization. it is not going back to north france or something like that. the concerns of the french are normal, in a way, unemployment, education, health, purchasing power, all of these things. and yet during the 2012 campaign we get nick let cord -- nicolas sarkozy.
you see these divide between what the french people are told and what they feel. that creates confusion. >> nicolas sarkozy is a savvy politician. if he is hitting that button because he knows that is something that will register with a lot of his voters. >> that is right. it is a lot easier to scare people about the "the other," whatever that is. then it is to tackle issues of unemployment and the environment and so on. it is age old politics, as you said. i think it is a problem mainstream politicians go way too far into this kind of politics. >> that is an interesting point. i think it is easy to do this. the real problem in the center, the main centrist parties in
france and in other countries is the inability to articulate where society is going and why certain technocratic policies have to be put in place. >> if i can interrupt, you were telling me because you cover the finance ministry for bloomberg, you were saying how it puts the current finance minister in a tough spot. here he is having to defend policies that are similar to the predecessor. >> the policies are not understood by the socialist government. the social government from francois hollande to others don't want to discuss them or say where we are going. so this is the people, a lack of understanding of where the country is going. so that is whyhe a stroncenter ithe best way
to deflect the extme. just to take this government, i think francois hollande is technocratic. you could even say from an economic point of view, he has done a number of advances that he has no ability to project a vision and that is fertile ground for the extremes. >> on twitter, in europe people are getting fed up with leftist controlling the government so they are seeking the opposite parties. i think if you tally the numbers of countries in europe that are governed by the left it is actually very few. first of all, social democracy has almost died. german's elections showed it. on the other hand, in france, people on the left eye not even certain they are social
democrats they believe they are socialists. they do not assume they are social democrats. >> do they still sing at party conferences? >> yes. it is incredible the words used it back to the 19th century. people like thinking like that. on the other hand, what is clear is that conservativism is not rising because it is delivering solutions. it is just the old way. the devil we know. socialists are not able tohow the future they want us to go to. we have no direction on the left. because there is no utopia anymore. there is no detailed transformation process.
>> people no longer believe in marxism. >> not only marxism. state owned companies, economic planning, social welfare itself isow criticized. there are a lot of issues about the place of money and society and who deserves, who does not deserve to be helped by society. all of these issues are not tackled in the current debate in france. but politicians avoid them conspicuously avoid them and of course this helps the far right and the far left. but more on the right now. >> by the way, the most popular member of francois hollande's government holds the job nicolas sarkozy once had, interior
minister, manuel valls, who shocked many with a recent statement in which he targeted people as having a vocation to return home to eastern europe. would you, aurélien mondon, say the centerleft and the center- right have the same way of responding to this rise of the far right? >> i think yes, they do. i think many members think they are socialists in a way they are social democrats. but they do not claim to be that. they do not believe in it. i can't imagine they would. the way he is treating these people is a terrible thing for the left strategically. because we have something interesting, the lack of vision.
people distrust politicians from the centerleft and center-right. i think particularly the extreme right has been in power a long time. since the world world war. so they have clean hands in some ways. they have never had real power so why not go for them? all of the others have mistreated and betrayed us. >> aurélien mondon, how does the center regain the upper hand? what kind of a message do they need to put across to win back voters? >> it is complicated. what people want, what you might want is some ethical leader. somebody who will not try to do. whistling politics. trying to tackle this problem. i think we can see it the rise
in abstention, the main party in france nowadays is abstention. european electionsmain party is. that is important to say. the extreme right is on the rise, showing this opportunity. people want a different kind of politics. maybe they just want something different. it is not being offered to them. i think that is a problem. people need to be ethical and say immigration is a difficult topic but saying we're going to close the border is not a solution. that is not going to bring employment. >> on twitter, david says aren't all of the industrial nations sing this shift due to
immigration from emerging nations? mark deen, go back to 2008 when the economic crisis hit. there were comparisons made to the 1930's. at the same time there was a rise of populism and even fascism. on the other hand, the rice of leadership. people who made bold decisions to try to counter the cataclysm that was affecting us. in 2008, did you think we would get more out of europe's leadership? >> certainly one could always hope for more. people don't understand the financial crisis. it is very complicated. the way this ends up translating into politics is bank bashing. which is ridiculous, for reasons we do not need to get into. and again, the inability of the
mainstream parties to articulate where they are going. and how they are dealing with these problems. i think it is important, if i can change topic slightly, to say france as an institutional structure. we are talking about the national front doing 25% in polls. that is a huge weight. far right parties have gotten in in other countries, certainly austria and belgium, because they had different political systems where the bar to access is lower. in france, where so much ways on who becomes president, you have the two round system, the second-round -- >> the general election after the presidential election. >> this is designed to keep out small parties and it has mostly
worked. it did not work in 20 -- 2002. this is partly why this has been allowed to go so far. as a result the national front has never held office or been in government. to get an easier ride now because they don't have to answer for any decisions. >> more important to the voters -- >> than the european election. which are next march, i believe. >> exactly. people are more interested in local affairs than european affairs but basically it does not translate into many cities just because of the way the system works and because it is sometimes difficult for the national front to have enough candidates.
so one should not expect all of this to get us, to amount to a major change in our political system or to something that could block the institutions or prefer -- prevent francois hollande from governing. we are just measuring the people don't see where we are going in that they ask for clearer insight about what the government can do. and what the people can't do for them. >> opinion divided among the viewers on facebook. carolyn says the failures of the left are so obvious and frightening to the future of france's economy and stability. blame meted out in several quarters. if you think the economy is bad in france, we could turn to greece where the far right is
still very, very far right. their leaders are back in parliament this week after the indictment in connection with the stabbing death of an anti- fascist hip-hop artist. critics say up until then, authorities had glossed over a string of hate crimes against immigrants. only this latest incident offered a wake-up call. aurélien mondon, in this case, the causality, it is definitely the economic crisis that has triggered the rise of the far right. click certainly. greece is a big country and it is hard to generalize it on a european level. the extreme right is a very extreme and they do not hide it at all. of course the crisis, the failure of politics, all the more obvious, and the wish for
the alternative, suddenly there is an even more extreme left in greece as well. it is showing that crisis and will bring the extreme right. just to go back on the economic crisis, this quotation i found amazing, in 2012 it was said during the election -- >> than an advisor to nicolas sarkozy. >> the overarching theme of the 2012 election is how to face the societal crises, the moral crises we are currently experiencing. it is about what personality one must have. so we have moral civilization
crises but not the economic one. people want some kind of answer to unemployment, to the fear of unemployment, to education, and so one. no one has the courage to tell them anything except maybe -- >> there is the far right. it is just more than semantics, the issue of populism. there is the far rise, we have seen in italy the rise of the five-star party, which garnered, it was not a poll. that was the vote. one quarter of the vote in the recent general election. they are not far right. but the issue is, is it the same phenomenon? >> i think it is similar.
it is not exactly the same but it goes back to what i was saying earlier, the inability of the mainstream parties to explain what they are doing and to project vision and to take the country in a direction that people understand. >> you are saying that it is a kick the bums out movement or are there people who are truly far right? >> both. in france's case, you have a flat economy and a und dynamic political leadership and you have marine le pen, who is determined to go somewhere. so i think it matters. italy is not extreme right, but that is showing a general frustration with the people who are in power and who have run
the country for recent decades. >> italy is a long story. i would say italy is a different part. >> so we have seen where politics are broken in france, greece, and italy. we just had a general election in germany. the incumbent won again. does that mean at the europe level we are not going to see a big shakeup? >> not because germany does not make up europe. in any case, germany is a part because it is an aging nation, a rich aging nation, with a low proportion of immigrants to its total population. not so small, although that explains the difference. on the other hand, i would also
reject the idea that the economic reasons explained the rice of the extreme. -- the rise of the extreme. it does not explain the far right as well as it explains the far left. for example, it in greece and portugal, it is mostly the far left which has been rising. the far right in greece is not so big. it is very extremist. while the former communists, you can trim the campaign. the left is very strong, two thirds of the electorate in the recent election. >> it is not one-size-fits-all. >> for the far right, the explanation is broader. we can to reduce this to the
current economic situation. >> i would say basically, i agree. you can't bring everything down to the economy specifically but it provides a backdrop. if we were in the 1970's growing at four percent a year, unemployment of six percent, it would be easier for the mainstream parties to maneuver. to project things. >> we are going to leave it there. mark deen, mathieu doiret aurélien mondon from the university of bath. and before we say goodbye, let's say hello to james creedon. >> good evening. we have been looking at reactions on the french web regarding the score in those recent elections and indeed -- >> election, singular. >> and the hole that was done showing that the french people,
23% for the european elections next year, the national front could be the biggest party in france if things go that way. there is an increasing respectability of the far right party. perhaps one sign of that is the actor -- we have a picture of him from one of his big films, he is one of the best-known actors. he said to a swiss newspaper for years e pen and his daughter have fought and fought alone. now for the first time they are not alone. the french people are with them. that in reference to the election where 50% of the population voted for the national front candidate. we are seeing an increasing move toward prominence public figures coming out and declaring their support for the national front.
somewhere saying there is nothing new in this. on social media, some have been sharing this photo of him in 1986, he is pictured on the right with le pen. that is when he was made a commander of the order of arts and letters. perhaps his affiliation with the le pen family is not so new. >> and other stories, you have been looking at, we have been talking about the far right. even in the mainstream parties there is sometimes objectionable behavior. >> let's take a look at these pictures. this was yesterday in the lower house of parliament. a green party deputy was speaking on the subject of pension reform when somebody started making chicken noises. for people who are not french- speaking, that might be peculiar but to be called a chicken as a
woman is completely sexist. it means you are almost a prostitute. it is highly sexist. let's take a listen to how that went down. >> [speaking french] >> the glass ceiling has not been broken. >> certainly not. do you know what his excuse was? he had a little bit too much to drink over lunch. i am not sure that as much of an excuse. some people having fun with that with french chickens and bottles of wine. he was suspended, parliament was suspended -- >> he said he had a few too many at lunch? >> the government spokeswoman and minister for women's rights,
she commented and said, that is not a good excuse. we should perhaps not have too much drink over lunch. that is a surprising moment in france's moorhouse yesterday. >> many thanks for that. i want to thank our panel and thank you for being here with the france 24 "debate." captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--