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tv   Taiwan Outlook  PBS  October 13, 2013 9:00am-10:01am PDT

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i am francois picard. coming up, the impact of a nobel prize. tuesday, the whole world cheered the particle physicist whose theories about the so-called god particle had been proved right this year by the multibillion euro collider in switzerland. this friday, mixed reactions to the nobel peace prize going to chemical weapons inspectors in
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serious for -- inspectors in syria. and is the international criminal court racist, as african leaders claim? that and much more in the world this week, as well as our media watch segment with james creedon. but begin in the newsroom and say hello to nadia. >> the headlines at this hour -- the nobel committee awarded prestigious peace prize to the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons. the task force is chuck ours with -- the task force is charged with destroying syria's chemical weapons. ngo human rights group claims that jihadists was behind the killing of 190 villagers, most of them women and children. in victory for french environmentalists.
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france's council has banned a law banning tracking. it is a process to extract shale oil and gas. breaking news coming from italy, the navy says it is assisting 200 migrants who have been thrown into the sea after their boat capsized off sicily. this comes just a week after a similar ship wreck that's all at least 328 african migrants drowned off the island. for more, let's go to our correspondent. and you for being with us. what more do we know about this latest incident? >> what we know is italian news agencies report that over 200 migrants are said to be in serious difficulty and the boat appears to have capsized. it is not clear yet. it is a developing story, but they have people at sea and the
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italian navy is using boats and helicopters to try to help these people, including using automatic inflatable lifeboats dropped into the sea. however, unfortunately, somebody's have been spotted at sea, so we'll have to see how this develops. this is a sign of how the oh landings on the water off of sicily have continued. just today, friday morning, italian rescue efforts rescued more than 500 migrants in the early hours of friday as part of several operations by the coast guard off the waters around italy. and now we have this latest incident where it is clear this migrant boat has run into trouble, and there are reports of bodies having been spotted. we will have to see more
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developments into the evening, whether we know the details of whether there have been more deaths. >> thank you very much for that report. going back to the top story, the bookmaker has it wrong. even the laureate when it had its the peace prize to the prohibition of chemical weapons, charged with enforcing the global ban on the use of chemical arms. their current focus is on syria, where they're dismantling chemical stock files -- stock piles. >> opcw has not been given this prize, first and foremost, because of syria. as i said, it is because of its long-standing efforts to eliminate chemical weapons.
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this is giving a message that does not ratify the convention, and those who have not honored their obligations, please ratify, please honor their obligations. >> for more, we are joined by our international affairs editor. this choice of laureate is peculiar, but is it a first? >> nonproliferation has been a theme before. also campaigners against conventional weapons. such as landmines. nor is it new for an organization to be honored. last year it was the european union. in the last century, actually more than a century, 24 organizations have won the nobel peace prize. this does two things. it honors the work of the opcw over the last 16 years.
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it has played an important role overseeing reductions in cold war era stockpiles, particularly those of russia and the u.s. with the two largest stock piles at the end of the cold war. it also aims to encourage this very difficult mission in syria . >> are they tackling their biggest challenge to date in syria? >> it is unprecedented for the opcw to work in a war zone and deal with what some experts say could be the world's largest chemical stockpiles. but show some of the sites and a graphic. this comes from the nuclear threat initiative nonprofit that monitors weapons of mass destruction. the areas of red are for the production sites. there are also three industrial sites, where chemicals may have industrial or military applications. three storage sites and one
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research site. this is only a partial picture. u.s. intelligence recently estimated the assad regime had moved chemical weapons across to a ran -- to iran, to 45 facilities when the threat of military action against syria was on the table. you have to enter the difficulties of working on the ground, with the director of opcw saying this week that inspectors had so far ordered only three locations out of this possible 45. he also talked about the difficulty of obtaining temporary truces so inspectors could cross territory that is being held by the rebels, by the syrian opposition. >> thank you very much for that. staying in syria, human rights watch is accusing rebels of killing at least 190 civilians
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in an offensive last august. they claim over 200 people, mostly women and children, were taken hostage during an attack on the province. the victims are all from president assad's sect, and it is the first time the watchdog has provided evidence of such crimes against humanity by opposition forces. >> syrian rebel systematically executed civilians and took hostages, so says the human rights watch group, climbing strong evidence -- claiming strong evidence this was committed during a strike. in some cases, entire families were gunned down as they fled. >> you can see the bullet holes where my son was killed. here is the blood. look here. see the bullet marks, here and here? >> the scale and organization of attacks suggest spree
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meditation, making them crimes against humanity. >> opposition fighters who came in routinely killed all of the adult males they saw. they also killed anyone they saw who was filleting, including women and children. >> five rebel groups, including the al qaeda-linked group, publicized their involvement through videos and statements. less clear is the role of fighters in the free syrian army, the main opposition coalition backed by the united states, britain, and france. >> individuals or country supporting these groups are now on notice about potential violations they are committing and could be complicit in war crimes and crimes against humanity if they continue to support them. >> syria's are battling to overthrow assad. rebels and government forces have both been accused of abuses through the conflict. >> around 2000 islamists have
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been railing outside of egypt's presidential palace in cairo. organizers decided to give up plans to march on the square. the change the location for the gathering avoided a repeat of last week's clashes with police that killed dozens of people. the interior ministry had warned it would confront any attempts to break the legitimacy of the interim government, and most of the marches passed off without incident. in the coastal city of alexandria, the police fired tear gas to disperse protesters when they clashed with civilians. in france, it is seen by environmentalists as a dangerous practice, and some crisis weary politicians find it is a financial and. fracking, used to extract shale oil and gas, is back in the spotlight, and a constitutional court chose to uphold a law banning the technology.
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a research permit was withdrawn when the bank and plan was and stated in 2011. >> hydraulic fracking has been illegal in france since july 2011, forcing several companies to halt exploration. the french president said that fracking would not be legalized again, but in recent months he has met with dissension within his own government. the industrial renewal minister has proposed the french state tabloid -- explorer shale gas. they say the country's energy resources at stake. >> we import 98% of the gas that we consume. it would be a great shame to deprive ourselves of a national resource if we can exploit and produce this gas. >> the only known method of extracting the shale gas from the ground is controversial. it insists of injecting -- it consists of injecting water into the scene and collecting gas at
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the surface. opponents say it lays waste to waterways and grasslands, and studies are inconclusive. >> with that, it is time for me to head back to francois picard and his guests. >> thank you for that. it is time for the world this week. we have four paris-based correspondents, how are you? >> good, thank you, sir. >> elizabeth, from the sunday telegraph. will come back. we'll come back to you as well. -- welcome back to you as well. and a reporter for the french 24 website who put out a documentary on a rant -- on iran . join the conversation on facebook and on twitter. last year, when the european union won the nobel peace prize,
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reviews on the panel were, tactfully, mixed. here we go. come in, oslo. >> the nobel committee has decided the nobel peace prize for 2013 is to be awarded to the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons, opcw, for its extensive work for eliminating chemical weapons. >> elizabeth? >> in norway, when you have a secondary politician was not made too many enemies, the posture of putting him on the nobel peace prize committee, where people distinguish themselves by picking this year
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and organization that has not achieved much yet. >> the opcw, as it is called, it claims it has gotten 190 nations to sign on. it has reduced drastically the number of chemical weapons out there, even before syria happened. >> yes, they would say that, wouldn't they, first of all. it is all well and good, but the idea of naming an organization instead of a person who bodies a principal, is it because we believe when we talk about things and get people to sign papers it is more important than doing things? second, they have just started in syria and they specifically explained afterwards it had to do with syria. it looks like this wonderful year when they give the nobel peace prize to obama, the grown master of the white house, it shows the nobel peace prize
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committee is a joke. i think the taliban have artie demonstrated in the streets in afghanistan with joy because malan was not named, and that was achieved by the peace prize committee. thumbs down. >> in your assignments, you have been to africa. you have seen the peacekeepers who often get bad press. >> i would not have given them the nobel peace prize. there are some africans who definitely deserve the peace prize, like the doctor who took care of i don't know how any rate victims -- i don't know how many rate victims. chemical weapons, yes, it is awful, but when we look at syria , chemical weapons are a sideshow. most of the 100,000 victims are not killed by chemical weapons. they are killed by conventional weapons. why make such an issue about chemical weapons.
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for the victims come it does not matter, if they get a break on the head because of a bomb or killed by chemical weapons. i think it was not such a good choice to give the prize to this organization. >> the point you are making is one made by the syrian opposition, concerned this award will cement assad's return to respectability. >> the decision was rather surprising for me. it seems the world insist on forgetting we had over 110,000 foreign bureaus using conventional weapons, yet the world for reasons that are obvious to everybody focuses on the issue of chemical weapons that killed less than 1400. >> on twitter, this reaction, malala should have won the nobel prize. >> i do agree. and on twitter they are saying the media subset because malala would have been a better story, which is true.
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but as you said, you have to see the reaction in pakistan today. the reaction in damascus. damascus is extremely happy. they will be officially joining this organization. what do you tell to syrian families who have lost family members with a mortar, sorry, your loved one is dead, it just did not make a mark of chemical weapons? i have to say, i have always been skeptical. >> a 16-year-old? >> i sort of understand she has a whole life ahead of her. she is young, but have never failed to be impressed by this girl, including when she is with tough interviewers. she really is an extremely commendable figure. >> craig, it is 3-0. so far on the panel. >> the nobel peace prize committee long ago deserved a
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rectal you're a geisha. now we need to speed this process up. this is a toxic clinical decision designed to engender with the removal of the chemical weapons from syria. it was knee-jerk. it was ridiculous. malala should have gotten it. why they do not give it to her is beyond my comprehension. one wonders what fear of recognitions against those who might have given this award to her, what the retributions would be from the taliban. she is a heroic child, and i think had she won that prize, deservedly it would have given her another layer of protection
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and would have been able to get her out of pakistan, which i think they should do immediately, get her to the united states or england or france or someplace safe, and let her study and live her life. >> also, it could have also changed, but she is very unpopular in pakistan. had pakistan clinch date he's prize, the nobel prize, it could have been a matter of national pride for them, anyway that you typically see in these countries. your fellow countrymen are against you when they are critical, but when you reach certain stature, it could have happened. it would have been a good thing for her. >> it is the second time they have chosen an organization. i think that is a bad idea. the european union, ok, there was discussion wasn't it right or wrong, but again, it's an institution. people want faces and role models, and it does not make
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sense to give the prize to one organization. >> it is all old white guys basically saying to half of humanity, you don't really matter, people can burn you with acid and rape you and we don't care. >> you want to get young people involved around the world helping fix the world? give that peace prize to malala. a lot of people rallied around her. there are millions of young people around the world who only know about pakistan because of what malala did, and she gets the french 24, the world this week peace prize. >> the one that counts. one final thought on this, in the long run, does this change in any way the standing of assad, the president of syria? >> he will use it. he will use it. the middle east loves committees.
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they have the anti-perforation committee, they have syria on the human rights committee, and also libya. to see it from the same kind of attitude, the same kind of decision made by the same kind of people, it is then used. it is used everyday and decisions more and big in international forums where they have effect. i'm thinking of the united nations, various agencies in which majority rules and that kind of tree text is used. -- that kind of pretext is used. >> speaking of nobel prizes, palpable buzz in the build up to tuesday's physics award. want to see how they party at the world's largest particle physics laboratory? [cheers] the enthusiasm in geneva, the
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cern organization for nuclear research using the multibillion- dollar large hadron collider have proved the expose in theory laid out 1964. all of chinese bells on -- all of belgium is abuzz with the story. >> this marks important progress in our understanding of the world. in our understanding of elementary particles and in our understanding of the field of cosmology. and perhaps one day in the scientific understanding of the origin of the universe. >> a step on the way to unlocking some of the mysteries of the universe. it is not very often where you have editorials and all of the newspapers about what they call hard science.
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this is not some kind of practical application right now. this is very theoretical. we don't often talk about physics and a show like this. >> well, this is the decision to give the award to higgs and his team is huge. it is not only the award for physics. they could have incorporated him getting the award for literature as well. i go back to what historians will tell you is one of the most important documents ever written, it in 54 bc, a 7000 word poll him that called on the nature of things. this is one of the most important documents ever penned by men. it was so damning that the church spent hundreds of years trying to wipe it out. in this ancient polem, it was
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about physics, specifically about higgs-bosen. this poll am stated that everything is made of invisible particles, which is what this award is about. it said that all particles are emotion and an infinite void, among other things. the other part of this poem which really outraged people is that it said that all religions are invariably cruel because humans are not unique. when you die, your particles just go back into infinity. >> the beginning to the key of all this? >> yes, it is a very important historical milestone. >> i cannot help noticing that the chancellor of germany is a physicist herself. has there been much reaction in germany, the kind we have seen in the anglo-saxon press? >> yeah, people get excited
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about it. the thing is, in much of the media, they say it is god's particle, which is a little ridiculous because even higgs does not call it that. now the name sticks around and that his story. the good thing with the nobel prize is a gets people thing, people interested in physics. >> the god particle is catchy. able would not be interested in such a subject, you make it more attractive and accessible. >> there often is this misunderstanding, this quid pro quo between journalists and scientists. journalists have been using the term god particle, which
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everyone knows. scientist don't like it, but they have not really come up with good alternatives. >> i suspect scientist like it because you are putting their work out there. that is what we do, we make it accessible, we make it compelling. >> it is not right because he was not the only one. there is a problem with the nobel prize because you can only give it to a maximum of three people, but there were many other people involved. >> there were five or six. >> they came out with it just about at the same time. >> higgs recognized this is a group effort. >> giving all the names of all of the people who are involved, it is completely unpronounceable. higgs is good because if it's headlines. >> higgs? retired academic, as much a
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rock star in europe, turns out he does not like the fuss. if the swedish academy cannot reach him tuesday, it is because he deliberately had gone on vacation. there is a picture of him, the top story headlined in "the guardian" wednesday. partially, we will know when we get him back from holiday why he decided to go on holiday. do you understand nobel laureates, like the french writer, who refused to take a nobel prize? >> the french writer was being political. >> was higgs right to go on vacation? >> i am thinking of a mathematician in russia, whose name escapes me, who got the equivalent of a fields medal in mathematics.
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to this day he lives in st. petersburg in a small state. he was not interested in the prize, he was not interested in the money, he was just interested in mathematics. i think to some extent, it is understandable. certainly, you have to be really somebody particular to get this verified area of knowledge. he can do pretty much what he pleases. i am glad for him. i am glad if he likes it. if he does not like it, what the heck, he does not have to talk about it, that is his prerogative. >> everything is made of invisible particles, so so should higgs. what has happened here, this millennia old argument, what came first, the chicken or the egg, science or literature, is that ideas thought of a millennia ago or scientifically -- these came about.
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>> the other thing is this is the roman empire. i would like to say a good thing or two about the roman empire. it was a good place to think. even if you worked. one of the best mathematicians was from there. >> and they did not have all of the technology that higgs and his team did to figure this out. this was pure thought act than that expressed itself through literature, the journalism of the time, which i find compelling, and all of these millennia later you have this team of scientists. >> proved right by some multibillion-dollar machines. >> exactly. >> there were thousands of people involved in achieving this, and you cannot really make use of it right now, but very intelligent people around will know what to do with this.
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>> coming to an iphone near you. >> will have to take a break. when we come back, we will look at another milestone of a different sort. this one at the u.s. federal reserve. stay with us. p >> before we resume world this week, tom burgess watson will be following the stories, and we have breaking news coming from the mediterranean. a migrant boat capsized between sicily and tunisia. hundreds of people, the italian navy on its way to rescue.
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corpses have been spotted, say reporters. this taking place just one week after at least 300 people drowned when a boat carrying migrants sank off the sicilian island. 2000 islamists rallying in egypt, organizers deciding to forgo plans to march on tie here square. france's constitutional council upholds a law banning fracking, the process that extracts show oil and gas. the court rejected a would-be investor. we will have the stories and much more at the top of the hour. welcome back. this is "a world this week." with us, craig, elizabeth,
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german reporter uryka, and despite the partial shutdown at the u.s. federal government, day 11, and the race to get republicans and democrats to strike a deal before next week's that ceiling deadline, business continues in washington with the nomination of ben bernanke's successor as chair of the worlds most powerful central bank. >> i am absolutely confident that she will be an exceptional chair of the federal reserve. i should add she will be the first woman to lead the fed in its 100 year history. >> janet yellen getting the nod, and the financial press as a whole things it is a good thing. but they are also pointing to the fact that one of the reasons is, of course, she is, as barack obama said, the first woman who would be. >> which overshadows everything else.
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janet yellen is highly competent and intelligent, but she has been long associated with the fed and the kind of changes that a lot of people would like to see at the fed that are not just going to happen. because of the long association. the fed likes continuity. the continuity for a number of years has been quantitative easing, the printing of money. that is what the fed is obviously going to continue to do. the things to watch out for, without getting into the weeds of economics and how the fed operates, our will she cut off quantitative easing, will she stop the printing of money and handing it out, and will the fed start to look more at inflationary problems as opposed to unemployment problems.
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the fed classically focuses on over the sizing and curtailing employment at the expense of triggering things that will trigger inflation. this has been an internal argument for many years. this is very inside baseball, but those are the key things. she is a good choice. she will keep it running, and she is an old fed hamnd. >> she is breaking the so-called glass ceiling, as barack obama said, but if you look closer, janet yellen is right now the only female member of the fed's board of governors, and could possibly stay that way. this is a cartoon in the financial times. "men" on one side, "woman" singular on the other side.
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there are no women on the european central bank of governors, the same for the bank of england, by the way. >> yes, and it tells you all that you need to know about the capacity for western european while saying that they are all- inclusive. it is interesting that you take one woman that you think of immediately, and that is christine lagarde, who forked twice the entrance exam to the french -- who flunked twice the entrance exam to the french school for executives, and she flunked. she decided she had enough. she read law and became a lawyer. she is with an american law firm, the and she became the chairman, and this is how she was brought back, first into french politics and then to the imf. this is somebody who basically
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fled from the structure of how you get to power in our countries. that is very interesting. we should not forget that janet yellen has been ushered in at the fed. she was not the first choice. the first choice was larry summers. larry summers is controversy all, he is more right wing, less left-wing than other people who were being considered, so obama's choice would have been criticized from various places. i might add that larry summers used to be the president of harvard, got into deep water because of controversy all statements about whether women's minds were conductive to science. there was so much ruckus about this that i cannot remember where the actual statement began before the ruckus began. certainly, naming a woman after shunting aside larry summers, who was a white house advisor who decided taking his name up
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to the house to speak rather than face the goal confirmation hearings. that tells you a great deal of hominy women -- women are brought in every now and then, when we feel we need a woman to show you we have a woman. i'm delighted for janet yellen and i am glad she is there, but it is not very impressive and i think europeans are even worse. >> just reelected a second time, not a token woman running germany. >> angela merkel stands out, but it shows there is definitely a need for a quota on the european level and in companies, and we cannot just wait for women like christine lagarde and angela merkel. there are so few, and for the time being there must be a quota just to put them and get more into these important posts. >> there is a feature in a french newsmagazine where every week you have the business pages seven pictures, six people, that
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her son who rules a company, and it is always men. men, men, men, seven men all the time, every now and then a woman who is in charge of public affairs and communications, and of story. >> we have a tweet from a viewer who says, "why is janet yellen's gender more important than any of bushmen from her career?" >> excellent question. excellent question. because gender issues, as important as they are, for better or for worse overshadow the reality of what it takes to actually run something, to fix something. to anne's point, which i think is excellent about there being
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very few women in the european companies, there is a reason french government -- there is a recent french government statistic about people leaving france. they leave france for jobs elsewhere because there are no jobs here. there is no opportunity to change. >> right, but the problems of the glass ceiling are everywhere as in the western world. >> i would like to see what percentage of that 79% who left to go abroad are women and why they went away. for steen lagardere is the poster girl for this. -- christine lagarde is the poster girl for this. she is highly competent. we you please come back and run for government, thank you. >> there is still this much behavior. >> you bring up a point.
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for viewers who have not followed this story, in france, the cracks in the grass ceiling -- glass ceiling seemed to be spreading. last year, the president failed on a campaign promise, naming a 50/50 cabinet of men and women, aiming for. he and the ensuing elections. when a seven percent of parliamentarians are now female. that is a record for this country. -- 27% of parliamentarians are now female. that is a record for this country. but as one green mp discovered tuesday, a french national assembly is still a man's world and old attitudes die hard. [speaking french] >> i am not a hen, she says. a guilty party that made the clucking sounds says it was
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because he "had with the french call they will soak the lunch -- well-soaked lunch," meaning too much to drink. the leader of his artie had this to say. -- the leader of his party had this to say. >> it is regrettable, but i would like to remind you this is not the worst gesture that was done by other colleagues in this assembly. >> oh dear. >> isn't this the same house where a woman mp had a floral dress, a perfectly professional dress, and she had catcalls in parliament? yes, of course there is bad behavior. so what, we compare it to russian parliament or other parliament where shoes are
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flung. this sort of behavior is not odd. that is the simple fact. it is not condoning bad behavior in houses of our lament. >> i would like to recall during the time of the affair in new york, french women politicians are a rare sort of new unity. it was from the extreme left of the green right. they all said, we have had it with sexism, we have had a. >> a similar up more this time. the former first lady lady of nicolas sarkozy has weighed in. >> i started interviewing people over this because my paper could not have enough stories about the sex scandal, and i must say these are ghastly and i'm
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pleasant examples, but it was absolutely familiar to all women i encountered. you have these men in power. they are encouraged to have this life of so-called privilege, and they do not see the reason to move. >> is something changing? it is a scandal in france. would have been in the past? >> it is not a scandal. make this clear, this is not a scandal. this is the sour creamy center, and perhaps they should go and frack the place and get rid of some of these people. we're calling this a scandal because there is nothing else. you know what is a scandal? what is a scandal is the national assembly created a very important committee just a few days ago to redo the entire french education system. they appointed 18 people. only one of them is a teacher. the rest are more of the sour cream patriots from the national assembly. that is a scandal.
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this is just sheer stupidity. and to raise it to the level of a scandal really does an injustice. >> is it a scandal? >> it is not a scandal. it shows something that definitely needs to be changed in france. >> you know what else is a scandal? 25% of people in a recent poll said they would vote for the far right, the national front, and the european elections. that is a scandal. that is what people should be putting on the front page, not some goofy french parliamentarians making chicken sounds. they should throw the ball out. >> we should be careful about these things. >> we will move on. in 1924, agatha christie published a short story in one
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of her famed characters who solves the caper. the story is called "the kidnapped prime minister." life imitated art this week in the predawn hours of thursday. england's prime minister was whisked off by gunmen from the tripoli hotel where he resides. he was free by lunchtime, but the story sent shockwaves. >> i hope that we will deal with this situation with wisdom. remove from any tension and escalation. there is no doubt the situation needs to be dealt with. i would like to assure foreigners here in libya that what has just occurred was solely a result of complications within libyan politics and foreigners are not targets. >> foreigners are not hard it's,
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a reference to the fact that last week there was this raid by u.s. special forces that came in and picked up a now qaeda suspect went to attacks on the u.s. embassies in kenya and tanzania in the 1990s. off the street, west to a boat, wanted for indictment in new york city in federal court. the prime minister, that was him speaking thursday. since then, he has gone on and accused a group called the chamber of libya's revolutionaries of being behind it. it is still very fuzzy as to why they did it, or if it is them. >> it is very fuzzy, but people who have been living in libya the two-year sense gaddafi was deposed, it is a chaotic country. you do not hear about car bombs in libya. he was released by lunch time.
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the libyan people themselves are not especially violent. it is certainly a country that is divided along tribal lines and a country where they believe that they want to be up to carry arms and defend themselves, which is not totally good when you want to run a country after 40 years of a dictatorship. but all the same, it is a country where the islamists have consistently lost in the polls every single election, local, whatever. every candidate they have put forward has lost the election fair and square. you have a movement in benghazi of people who want autonomy, not independence. it is a federalist movement. overall, i would say the case of libya is a bit of a mess, but it is very difficult after what has been going on in libya the past 40 years not for the country to be immersed. it is not iraq, it is not
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afghanistan. it is a place were you can be hopeful. >> i don't agree. today, there was another attack in benghazi. there are so many weapons around. it is everywhere. it just highlights the danger this country is still not functioning. >> it is functioning a bit. it is not functioning well -- >> 200,000 armed men, on the payroll of the government, but they don't listen to the government because they have their own commanders. >> what i have been saying the past two years, having lived in libya during the uprising, is that libya is not as bad as we make it out to be. his is not to whitewash the problem. it is very smart. the population is wealthy, the ethnic groups say this is not syria, but i have to say,
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yesterday's incident was shocking. i have been in countries where we say the president is the viceroy of the capital. here the prime minister's not even control the capital, is not even control the building he is in. it is a terrible thing. but as we have seen, was it in retaliation for the al qaeda suspect? >> was it over a dispute? >> exactly. but what do we expect? this country did not even have sham elections after gaddafi fell. aidan not have a constitution. >> could one of the tipping points then there was this raid? >> if you ask me, i have no doubt this is what triggered it. >> there is also the political power play. it is probably a mixer of all this. >> what it comes down to is the conventional wisdom of what finds a 21st-century nationstate
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has really slipped into the mud. you have countries in the middle east, egypt, libya, there are many, these countries are on the run. >> does that give states the right to go in and, reportedly without warning authorities, take people? >> the united states apparently believe so. they have been doing this. they have been doing this for quite some time. and if they catch the right people, i am not defending their actions, but if you have to look at it, try to look at it from the u.s. lens. if you have crumbling nationstates that fit no classic definition of what a nationstate is, you have no one to deal with. >> that is not what libyans were saying thursday. it was not just in tripoli,
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where u.s. forces intervened, they also swooped down on a beachside villa in somalia, but withdrew after a firefight, possibly failing to catch a canyon -- atch a kenyan of somali origin who has been linked to multiple plots against kenya. >> somalia absolutely shows the u.s. its lesson. we have seen this. the libyan mission went so smoothly. somalis can fight. and they do it well. >> the reports from the region, backed up by the pentagon, said the reason the seals did not go in and take this guy is because they were worried about collateral civilian damage. as long as in a war you worry about collateral civilian damage, you are going to lose it. >> it is a much bigger capital,
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it is far more populated. >> this question, which is on everyone's mind, people love to discuss collateral civilian damage -- if you believe there is a war on terror, whatever you want to call it, good guys against bad guys, a la classic war, during world war ii there were over 70,000 civilian casualties in france from allied bombings, and the french never complained because they realize that was the cost of war. this has become a paramount issue now. that is persuasively why, according to the reports, why the radiance of molly was not successful. the seals did not want to kill any of the innocent people. >> you seem to be the only one believing that. i don't think collateral damage was the problem. i thought serious fighting was the problem. >> meanwhile, this friday edo be -- this friday ed ethiopia
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opening up a summit to take on the hague-based criminal court. >> contributing to the advancement of peace and stability in our continent, the court has transformed itself into a political organization targeting africans. >> a rebuttal came from kofi who did not mince words. >> we hear a lot of talk about countries, but it is really to protect their leaders. i have not heard one leader talk about justice for the thousands of africans who have lost their lives or have been injured or those who have been forced to flee their homes. >> is the icc racist? >> in some ways, it is much easier to accuse africans than
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any other big leaders where there is much more economic interest. but it is a shame because, while it is good they are going ahead, but there should be many more on trial, and i think it is a shame that probably most of the canyons -- most of the kenyans will avoid this. they will probably avoid the verdict. but it will be better to give it to the icc and try more people than just african leaders. >> we will leave it there for now. i want to thank our panel. before we go, let's say hello to james creedon. >> good evening. a lot of talk on social media about the nobel peace prize. >> you heard the panel.
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we would give the award to malala. >> a lot of people feel that way on social media, but there is some division. talking about controversial winners, it is not a win for everybody, every buddy is in agreement, talking about in 1994 yasser arafat winning along with itzhak rabin. there is division over that. barack obama is a controversial choice, picking a president who is also a commander-in-chief. and the european union last year picking an organization of that nature has been controversy of. amnesty international saluting the choice, another organization opcw is a worthy winner. an editorial said he thought it was a worthy choice because they are working in the shadows. malala, who stood up to the
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taliban, was for him the medias choice. from his point of view, it was a good idea to pick and give cohesion and adhesion to the international community, the wording of the nobel prize to the opcw. the nobel prize pointing out it was not syria, but because of its long-standing work that the opcw won. across the board, the taliban themselves are pleased that malala did not win. twitter users are glad she did not win because the award has been discredited. just as well that she did not win it. elsewhere, somebody being tongue-in-cheek saying next year the nobel prize will go to e- cards. just one final word. the prize had to contact the opcw via twitter because they
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cannot reach them to let them know they had won, the same as yesterday with the winner of the literature prize. who knew that twitter would be the medium for informing people they are now nobel laureates. >> james creedon, thank you, and thank you to our panel. thank you for joining us here for "the world this week."
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welcome to "newsline." here's the news at this hour. a stampede near a hindu temple has left 91 people dead and 110 injured. at the time a large number of people had gathered to celebrate an important religious event. police say the dead were among thousands of worshippers crossing a 500 meter long 7

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