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tv   This Week With Christiane Amanpour  ABC  February 27, 2011 8:00am-8:59am PST

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inside gadhafi's mind with my exclusive interviews with his two powerful sons. do you think they'll get rid of you? what is their father thinking right now? and how will he respond to president obama's call for him to leave right away? and what will it all mean for your security? your gas tank? your life? and closer to home, states of emergency. a crisis that hits all of us. where have the jobs gone? we'll ask four cash-strapped governors. do they have a plan to save your house? your schools? your pensions? a special edition of "this week" live from libya starts right now. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. from the heart of gadhafi's strong hold, the libyan capital, tripoli. we're among a small group of journalists who have been invited in.
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as the gadhafi regime tries to put its stamp now on the unfolding story here. as we try to sort fact from fiction, sometimes fact is so much stranger. who could possibly invent the rants and ravings of leader like the colonel? the defecting air force pilots? the libyan diplomats bursting into tears at the united nations? as they take a stand against their leader of 41 years. the tough new sanctions and gadhafi's increasing isolation are based on allegations that he's ordered air strike, bombing of civilian protesters. we have seen no evidence of that yet and the gadhafi leadership denies it. we have met people who are angry that protests have been met by live fire. there are special army brigades and tanks ringing the entrances of this capital. also confirmation that a town 30 kilometers away is under opposition control. there's a sense that gadhafi can
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hold out here, at least in the short term. we found that out as our journey began 24 hours ago. we're on one of the few commercial flights from london into tripoli. the capital of lib california. it's gadhafi's last major str g stronghold. a holdout. we don't know what we're going to find. we've been asked by the government to come and see their side of the story. they say all is calm. we'll see when we get there. our plane was mostly empty. when we landed, so was a grand airport vip lounge. we saw a portrait of gadhafi on the wall. proof that for now, the colonel still controls his capital. just outside the lounge, a desperate scene. migrant workers seek refuge and
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safe passage home. hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands op people hoping to get out. there is garbage and food all over the place. they've come here, it seems, because they are unsure of what is happening in the city itself. how many days have you been here? >> maybe four days, five days. >> reporter: with no money, no airline tickets, little hope of making it on to a flight, these people have no idea how much longer they'll have to campout side, as mounds of garbage pile up beside them. we've left the sea of humanity behind. some soldiers were guarding the entrance of the airport. now we're driving into tripoli itself. so far, no signs of conflict. after the eerie calm of the streets, a colorful neon welcome at the designated journalists hotel. a surreal skaen since we've been told that the city was now ringed with tangs and pro-fwad
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ha gadhafi forces. earlier saturday, reports that cities along the mediterranean coast had largely fallen. thousands of demonstrators celebrated there in the second largest city. >> i have never been as happy as today in my whole life. >> reporter: they were not alone. all over the coast, they were firing guns into the air. taking control of radio station. mocking and impersonating their leader of more than four decades. all this, as after a week of protests and reprisals, president obama issued a statement and said that gadhafi needs to do what is right for his country by leaving now. i sat down for exclusive interviews with gadhafi's sons. first, i spoke to saif al islam. who is also one of his chief advisers. thank you for joining us. the president of the united states has called on your father
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to step down. what do you think of that? >> first of all, it's not an -- that's number one. second, do you think this is a solution? of course not. >> if a person can only keep control by using force, then legitimacy is gone. >> right. but what happened? we didn't use force. second, we still have people around us. so we are in tripoli. and we have here half the population of libya. half. more than 2 million, 2.5 million people living in the city. do you think because of 10,000 or 5,000 people, even if you have the demands against my father or whatever, it means that the whole libyan population is against mr. gadhafi?
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>> you said you're not using violence. there are many reports of helicopter gunships, of people being killed, and air force pilots defecting, jettisoning their planes rather than carry out ordered to bomb citizens? >> show me a single attack. show me a single bomb. show me the casualties. >> what do you make of your diplomats in new york, and washington, who are resigning because they say they can't abide this policy? >> i talk to them. >> why do you think people are deserting your father? >> many of them -- they think the system will collapse. so the best thing is to jump from the ship. the ship is sinking, they think, so it's better to jump. >> will there be a new regime? >> if you are strong, they love you. if not, they say good-bye. that is good. we get rid of them. hypocrites. >> do you think they'll get rid of you? >> no.
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they are the leaders. they have no future. they want to join the youth revolution. >> what is your plan? are you staying, going? what is your father's plan? is he staying? is he going? >> listen, nobody is leaving this country. we live here. we die here. this is our country. the libyans are our people. and for myself, i believe i'm doing the right thing. >> before all this happened, you were known, certainly in the west, for being a reformer. speaking the language of reform for libya. but it didn't happen. why did it take this kind of crisis for you to start talking about reform again? wouldn't it have been better to have implemented what you're talking about now way before? >> of course. >> so why not? >> it was a big mistake not to move fast. i was -- i was -- like -- shouting every day.
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but i was -- i was crazy about going fast and implementing the reforms at the right time. i worked very hard to go to implement many ideas. but things went wrong. so now we are in a difficult situation. and -- the people who were responsible for that, stopping me from going forward, they are the same people who i see them saying, bye bye. we're going with the next group. the same faces. the same people. >> are you afraid at all? >> afraid of what? the point that you're hearing rumors, false reports. take your cameras tomorrow morning, tonight. go libya. everything is calm. everything is peaceful. there's a big gap between reality and the media reports. >> i'm going to ask you a question. you say there's a big, big gap between reality and media reports.
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some might say there's a big, big gap between what you're thinking and saying to me and the reality around the rest of libya. >> the whole south is calm. the west is calm. the middle is calm. even part of the east. >> what do you make of the international community's reaction? there are calls to have heavy sanctions. to freeze your assets. your father's assets. your family's assets. >> we don't have many. we are a modest family. even knows that. a lot of people say, you have money in europe. it's a -- it's a joke. >> a few hours later, we went to talk to gadhafi's son, sardi. he's lived many years outside the country. used to play football for an italian team. we reached him just as news emerged of fresh u.n. sanctions against his family.
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overnight, libya time, the united nations slapped sanctions on this country and a travel ban. how is that going to affect you? >> only the travel issue. it bothers me so much. because i spent most of my life traveling. >> what's in your immediate plans if you can't travel? >> i will hire a lawyer. i have some hobbies. after i quit football. i have hobbies like -- i do some hunting, i go to safari. so, there is no safari in libya. i have to hire a lawyer. i have to go on safari. >> you have to get out of libya. >> i have to be -- i would like to live normally. >> the people here want to live normally. they want normal freedoms and a normal life. they haven't had it. >> they have. they have. >> you think so?
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>> yeah, but the people -- everybody wants more. there is no limit. you get this, you ask for that. >> what do you think is happening to your region? >> an earthquake. >> an earthquake? >> an earthquake. it's a fever. it's going to spread everywhere. no one can stop it. this is my personal opinion. and the chaos will be everywhere. >> you think it will be kay kros? or you think it will be a fever of freedom and democracy? >> no, no, no. the thing about freedom. everybody loves freedom. i love freedom, you love freedom. it's much powerful. no one can control it. >> will your father leave? >> i think it's -- if he -- let's say if he has to leave today, if he leaves today,
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today, just one hour later, local car. civil war in libya. >> you have travelled a lot. you've lived in other countries. when row see the kind of life, the kind of freedoms, democracy that other people have, did it make you think that people here should have it? how did you feel coming back here? >> of course. this is the main thing. the main issue. this thing is bothering me every day. >> is it hard being gadhafi's son? >> i have to deal with it. i would like to be myself. i would like to be just said. >> my exclusive interviews with colonel gadhafi's sons, said and saif. we're now going to my colleague, jeremy bowen, of bbc, our partner station. he's just returned not far from the capital. who is in control of the city there of zawiyah?
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>> at the center of zawiyah, i would say, demonstrators there today, a couple of thousand who were in the main square. they've got a tank. they've got some heavy weapons there as well. and they're in control of that part of the town. now, bizarrely, the libyans brought this to this particular place. we saw they were in control having what they called the revolution of honor. now, they've taken us to the counterdemonstrations. we're in the middle of the highway, people are in pickups and waving green flags and portraits of colonel gadhafi and expressing their great loyalty to him. zawiyah is in the hands of the rebels. >> does it look like they're preparing to push forth towards us here in tripoli? toward the capital? >> no, they don't have that kind of capability. i use the word rebels. they're local guys in the main, i would say.
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i spoke to lots of people there who -- police officers who changed sides. there were doctors, regular people from that town. they've set up a first aid station in the mosque. they burned down the institute for the study of colonel gadhafi's green book. they point out proudly the bank next door is left untouched. they're all local people there. they have thouno plans to push, ability to push forward to tripoli. they're trying to hang on to what they have. >> jeremy, thank you so much for joining us and giving us the latest news from there. when we return, a "roundtable" on what these sweeping historic movements and what it means to america and the world. after a break. changes mean to america and the world. after the break. in 1968, as whaling continued worldwide,
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welcome back to tripoli. as the world tries to make sense of these lightning movements that are sweeping this part of the world, the arab and muslim world, we're also trying to figure out what this means for the united states, for its strategic interests. how new shaping order over here will shape the united states economy and all sorts of other strategic interests. joining me from washington is author reza aslan. political strategist robert kagan from the brookings institution. our own senior white house correspondent jake tapper. thank you for joining me. jake, i want to ask you first. as so many americans are trying to figure out what this all means, all the revolutions from tunisia to egypt and whatever may unfold here, how should americans make sense of this, jake?
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>> well, obviously there are different levels to look at. the american ideals of democracy that have eluded much of that part of the world. and there's american strategic interests. it's a double-edged sword. what's going on in the middle east, in north africa right now. there's obviously a great deal of oil and energy we get from that region. unrest will upset oil prices and cause americans pain at the pump. other national security, counterterrorism issues. we have a lot of cooperative relationships with a lot of dictators in that region. ultimately, i think that the way the american people have to look at this is in terms of the american eideals and how democracy needs to take hold. throughout that part of the
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world. >> let me move to you, bob kagan. you've been studying this a long time. we've talked about this many time before. is this good for the united states in the end? are u.s. strategic interests best served by a democratic region here or by leaders who they think they can count on? we're talking about oil, oil, oil in strategic interests. >> it's an illusion to think we have an option of supporting these dictators. we're paying the price for supporting them for three, sometimes four decades. both parties have been cozy with the dictators. this has been in the name of an elusory stability. there is no stability now. we have to get used to the idea of change. there's a moment where you go from stability to change. we're not going to a new stability. i think that we should have more faith than we have shown in the basic values we believe are universal. we have to understand that muslims and arabs share that.
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ultimately, yes, there will be some strategic setbacks. yes, the governments may not agree with us as much as we like. i think in the long run, just as it was for europe and asia to be democratic, it's in our interests for this part of the world to be democratic as well. >> well, let me move to reza aslan. you have studied a lot about the people that make up this part of the world. who are the people that make up this part of the world? who are the young people? are they hostile to the united states? friendly? what is causing them to rise up? >> this can be described as a youth revolution. this is a region, some three-quarters of which is turned age of 35. they're not isolated like previous generations. they have satellite television, internet, social media. the monopoly that the leaders used to have over levels of communication does not exist any longer. this is a wonderful opportunity
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for a president who came to office saying he wants to reshape the relationship between the united states and the muslim world. he's been given a gift on a platter. the days in which we could waffle about whether we felt good about supporting the dictators or supporting democracy, the decision has been made for us. it's now time to fully support the people of the region and to change the relationship, change the very narrative of the relations between the u.s. and the muslim world. >> one thing that certainly is being looked at, who is the net ben fir beneficiary? many are saying that without lifting a finger, it's iran. is iran going to come out a winner, bob? >> if you mean the iranian regem regime, i think the answer is no.
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i think that quite honestly, the iranian leadership is right now living on borrowed time. i hope that one thing that the obama administration, and president obama recognizes personally, when we didn't come out in support of the green revolution, we made a mistake. now it's time to get on the side of the iranian people as we are trying to get on the side of the others in the region. i'm not worried this is strengthening the iranian regime. i think it's putting it in some what of peril. >> jake, what do you think the u.s. is telling allies like saudi arabia and bahrain? saudi arabia seems to be one of the last major allies that hasn't yet fallen? and the huge interests of oil there. and terrorism, al qaeda. >> that's right. the obama administration has
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been sending out messages, not just to allies in the region but to all countries in the region that they need to get ahead of this movement. you have seen the king of jordan try to initiate, try to get ahead of it. talk about pro-democracy reforms. you've seen other steps taken by the leadership in yemen, bahrain, algeria. they're trying to take steps to at least try to convince their people they're on the side of reform and it has not always been convincing. that's been the message they've been telling the saudis. to support reform efforts in bahrain. which is so close to saudi arabia. reform efforts that would include power sharing with the shia majority, even though the kingdom is run by sunnis. this has not been an easy process. it will take a long time. that's been the message coming from president obama and the administration. >> and reza, a final word. do you think, as everybody asks
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about iran, that there is a tipping point coming to iran as well, or not? >> look, the economic situation that led to the uprisings in tunisia and egypt and elsewhere are far worse in iran. the inflation rate in egypt is 12%. in iran, it's twice that. higher unemployment rates. higher property rates in iran. let's not forget, the paradigm set about how to organize in these regimes began with the green movement. everybody is waiting to see if what started in iran in 2009 will end in iran. that's hard to say. they'll learn a lesson from what happened in 2009. untenable situation. the economy is on the verge of collapse. the nuclear program is in shambles. i think change is coming to iran. though it may not be the
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profound revolutionary regime change that everyone is looking for. >> is this an opportunity for al qaeda, the democratic revolutions sweeping here, is it an opportunity for al qaeda or is it a blow to al qaeda? >> i think it's a blow to al qaeda. i think that the more you see the people who are taking part in the revolutions, the desire for democracy and freedom they express, they have no interest in al qaeda's message. al qaeda's message is one of hatred and theocratic tyranny. they consider democracy an enemy. there's little sign, no sign that i have seen that there's any enthusiasm for al qaeda. the only danger we nice right now, with regard to al qaeda or any terrorist group is if libya completely implodes and
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becomes a failed state and they take up residence and operations there. i think the united states will need to get involved, i hope not to a great extent, but possibly more than people are imagining now. >> bob kagan, reza aslan and jake tapper, thank you very much. i'll be back from tripoli with a note at the end of the program. meantime, after break, jake will be back with four governors from around the united states. jake? we bring together four governors dealing with the realities of the states. two republicans, nikki haley in her first sunday interview. and as a governor jan brewer. and also deval patrick and john hickenlooper. we'll talk about the radical decisions each of them is going to have to make, after this. ing to have to make after this. [ male announcer ] sitting, waiting, hoping.
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we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. welcome back. we'll have more from christiane amanpour live later in the broadcast. for now, states across america are in fiscal crises. facing difficult cuts to make ends meet. this morning, we've brought today some of the governors facing excruciating choices back home. how are the latest rounds of cuts in federal and state spending going to impact your children's education, your health care, your jobs? deval patrick has just begun his second term in office. in massachusetts. south carolina governor, nikki haley, the youngest in office at 39. john hickenlooper just sworn into office last month and arizona governor, republican jan brewer has taken some tough cuts
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to manage the budget gap. governors, thank you for being here. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> let's start with the other upraising in wisconsin. scott walker has sought to cut the benefits of some employees and also restrict their collective bargaining rights. is this the right move? >> absolutely. we appreciate the public employees. but our job as governor is to look after the tax payers. he's doing what he promised to do. he's trying to make the tough decisions that the people of wisconsin wanted him to do. i think the shame is that you have democrat senators representing the people of wisconsin that have so cowardly that they left their own state. i think that's an absolute slate of who should be thrown out of office as soon as they get back. it's absolutely unfortunate. >> governor hickenlooper, you want to weigh in? >> i spent a number of years in
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the restaurant business. we took over failing restaurants. the first thing we did was reach out to the work force. if we have to do more with less, you're the ones that have to help us. the challenge is to have that kind of division and adversarial relationships. it's tough to get to the point where they can make the government smaller. and more effective. >> if i may make a point. we have made a greater accountability in the public schools, rebalanced public employee benefits, health benefits in particular. we have had concessions from labor to wage concessions to help us close the budget. we reformed transportation. all of this with labor at the table. there's another way to approach it. it's been a success. >> it's kind of interesting. in the difficult times, all governors are facing, you have to make really tough decisions. employees need to have a personal relationship with
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their employer. if we're not able to go in there as governors and make the adjustments during these difficult, difficult times, we'll never get our stated turned around. >> i agree. my point is to do it with labor at the table. instead of doing it to labor. >> don't you think it's cowardly for the legislators to have fled? i mean that's not -- >> i try to just govern massachusetts and not try to govern other states. >> how would you do it? you have a republican house in colorado. what would happen if the republicans in theous didn't like what you were doing and they were going to nevada for the week? >> we have been trying to reach out to republicans since before the inauguration. how can we work together? we need your ideas. this country -- we shouldn't be talking about the polarized topics. we should be talking about jobs
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and how do we all make the investments in education, infrastructure, technology, innovation. to move this -- all 50 states -- we should be competing to see who can drive the economy the fastest. the budget is tough. it's difficult. if everyone is at the table, we'll get through it. >> let's be clear. this was cowardly. this was irresponsible. they left the state at the time when the state needed them the most because they don't want to take a vote. whether they're for it or against it, you come back and you represent the people of your state. i think what governor walker is doing is showing that he's standing his ground. i talked to him this past week. he's holding strong. i told him the people of the country want him to stay strong. i think it's shameful if senators left the state. >> i have to follow up. there's no correlation, according to statistics to a state's ability to bargain with the public employees collectively and whether or not they have a budget deficit.
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you know this firsthand. your state is a right to work state. in the new republic, the author says there's no correlation between those. wisconsin projects a state budget deficit of 12.8%, north carolina, which does not allow government workers to bargain, faces a higher deficit, 20%. and in ohio, the republican governor has made clear his desire to roll back collective bargaining. has a deficit about half the size of nonunion north carolina. isn't this just a power grab? >> absolutely not. they oppose the cuts. they're saying no everything. collective bargaining is a combination of all of that. he's saying, we have to get control of our state. he's trying to do that. i think the people elected him to do that. >> i think, excuse me, nikki. i'm sorry. all of us, as you said, and we would all acknowledge, all of us
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are dealing with these kinds of challenges. trying to get the budget gaps closed. all i'm saying is, there's another way. we've shown there is another way. the leadership i'm trying to bring in massachusetts is turning to each other, instead of on each other. we've moved the issues successfully. >> i think it's despicable that you have elected officials in the legislature. i served in legislature for 14 years, that they would leave their jobs. no one should walk out. they're doing what we have asked public employees not to do is to strike. that's wrong. they need to get back to wisconsin, they need to go in there, and they need to vote. it's so irresponsible. i can't imagine them, any of them, getting re-elected. the only thing you go to the legislature with is your vote. >> we're going to take a quick break. we'll be back. and later, christiane amanpour
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because when you're giving, lending and investing in more communities across the country, more opportunities happen. jake will be back with more of the governors' "roundtable" and i'll be back with the latest from tripoli after this. with the latest from tripoli after this.
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welcome back to a special "this week" governors "roundtable." christiane amanpour will be back later in the show, live from libya. governor brewer, i want to ask you, the budget al rate ises $350 million less for border
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security, fencing, and infrastructure technology from last year. cuts an estimated $159 billion of least year for customs and border protection modernization and construction. and potentially 659 less border pra toll agents. does the house republicans budget make arizona less safe? >> i believe we need as much resources that are necessary to get our borders secure. the bottom line is that the budget has not been completed. i'm hopeful it will be reinstated. i hope the dollars end up in arizona, texas, and california. we know that arizona is the gateway for illegal immigration, the drug smuggling, the drug cartels. arizona is paying a hefty price. just in incarceration, the feds owe us almost $800 million. and over $1 billion a year just in education and health care. it's out of control. out of control.
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we're going to continue fighting the batting against what's taking place between our border and mexico. >> i want to ask you about the president's proposed budget. it would add $7.2 trillion in debt. at no point, would the federal government spend less than it's taking in. would you ever support a budget like that? what would happen if you brought a budget like that to the people of colorado? >> i think there would be a healthy debate. which i think the what the president is expecting as well. >> a healthy debate? is that what they're calling it? >> the dirty word in all this is math. the president has to balance a budget and get back on a fiscal track. where you start out is not where you're going to end up. i think the president is trying to stress that we need to invest in our infrastructure. be the best innovation country on earth. we have to make the appropriate investments.
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he's laying out a broad array of largely really constructive investments. education. mobility and transportation, health care, defense. trying to make sure we're ready to compete. to win this game. it's a worldwide competition now. >> you have proposed $300 million in public education cuts. it's about $500 less per student. president obama when talking about his budget cuts recently said this -- >> we can't win the future if we lose the race to educate our children. can't do it. in today's economy, the quality of a nation's education is one of the biggest predictors of a nation's success. >> are you going to lose the future in colorado? >> no. but for one year, we have to retrench. how do we figure out how, with less money, to raise our kids up. often times in business, when you struggle for a year, you come up with ideas or innovations that make you better.
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we've been working with the teachers union, with the entire educational community. we don't have a choice. 42% of our budget is k-12 education. we have to make some serious cuts there. how do we do it in way that doesn't hurt our kids? >> we were talking how the fiscal crisis has given you us the opportunity to think in new ways and to ask ourselves what is it we want government to do and not to? in the commonwealth of massachusetts, we have had huge budget gaps. $13 billion of gaps. we have closed them. but at the same time, made record-level investments in k-12 support for our public schools. because that's our investment in the future. in that respect, the president and i completely agree. >> i want to turn to 2012. we only have a couple of minutes left. i want to ask you about 2012.
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>> i am not running, no. >> you took over your state from mitt romney. he's almost certainly going to run for president. did he do a good job at governor of massachusetts? >> i think one of the best things he did is to make over health care reform. ours is a model for national health care reform. we have 97% of the residents covered. >> you haven't gotten costs under control. >> it's added about 1% to the state budget. it's not generally reported out there. that's the truth. what they did in massachusetts is frankly the same thing that congress did. take on access first, and come to cost control next. that's what we're doing right now. we have exciting strategies. just as we have shown the nation how to provide universal care through a public-private model. i think we can crack the code on health care costs as well. >> it sounds like you think he did a good job. >> on that level, i think he did. >> i want you to look at this
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ad. >> nikki haley supporter, sarah palin. >> a strong pro-family, pro-life, pro-second amendment, reformer, your next governor, nikki haley. >> that was a pretty important endorsement for you. if she runs for president, will you return the favor? >> i think the environment will dictate who is endorsed. i have not endorsed nor plan on endorsing. i want all the candidates to come to south carolina. i want the people to see them. when the right time comes, i will endorse. there's is no one i feel like i owe at this time. >> thanks. still to come, live from libya, christiane amanpour. and some tea party freshmen say a shutdown may be the wakeup call we need. we'll hear from one when we come back. may be the wakeup call we need. you know when to hold 'em... and how to fold 'em.
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welcome back. after passing a $161 billion budget cut, congress recessed with the talk of a government shutdown in the air. the members have been in the districts this week. they're preparing to come back to washington. a government shutdown could be playing with political fire. david kerley caught up with a tea party freshman. who doesn't seem worried about getting burned. >> lindenhurst. baby! >> ladies and gentlemen. >> hey, guys. >> reporter: this is what a tea party victory lap looks like.
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>> welcome to a cup of joe with joe. >> reporter: congressman joe walsh -- >> i called myself a tea party conservative first and a republican second. not everybody liked that. >> reporter: is back with the faithful for the first time since the big victory. >> i believe this country, that we love and adore, needs a little bit of shock therapy. >> reporter: should he stand firm with the government poised to run out of money and shut down this week? >> how many people would like me to vote against that? even risking the government shutdown? >> shut it down. >> call the democrats out on the taxes. >> if we ran our house holds as irresponsibly as the government has been running itself for the last 20 years, we would be in prison. >> reporter: for two days, we followed him crisscrossing the district. from a steel plant to classrooms and meeting rooms,
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as he canvassed his constituents, asking if he's on the right track. what has been the number one message you received since you came home? >> keep cutting, baby. i know you're going to take some hits. but you're doing it for the bigger picture. >> reporter: emboldened, he's one of few republicans that wonders out loud, would a government shutdown be that bad? >> i don't want one. if we have to have one, it might be good for us. >> reporter: not everyone is happy with the new congressman and all those cuts. he's challenged at many stops. >> you're talking about deficits. the first thing, give a tax break to the richest people in the nation. >> this is great time to be alive. you know why? there's a lot of stuff going on. >> but you can't determine it's great time to be alive for everybody. you don't know that. you don't know everybody's story. >> this country right now is arguing and debating, and it's a good thing, big issues. >> reporter: this week, the big bank, goldman sachs says the republican budget cuts could cut our already slow economic growth
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this year by more than half. don't you risk running the country back into a recession? >> not at all. not at all. every dollar we take out of the public sector goes to the private sector to grow the economy. this is one of the rare moments where the american people are asking us to be bold. >> reporter: he's taken an unusual path to congress. >> leadership is every bit as conservative as this freshman class is. >> reporter: after a career in education reform, he failed at raising capital for startup ventures. financially strained, his house was foreclosed. and the libertarian ran for congress. >> look. i don't hide anything. i don't like what the president's been doing the last two years, duh. that's why i ran. i think we're spending too much money. i want to stop it. >> reporter: to high school students and ceos, the message is the same. >> this country that we love, feel it. we're going through a revolution right now. it is wonderful!
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>> reporter: he joined the revolution by just a couple hundred votes. >> i'm joe walsh from illinois. >> reporter: he sleeps in his washington office. he refused the federal health care plan. now he's the subject of "time" magazine photo shoots and tells reporters he's surprised with the freshmen power. >> based on what i have seen in general, we have held together very, very strongly. >> reporter: his energetic -- >> you rock -- >> reporter: an impatient style -- >> let's go mobile. give me quick answers. >> reporter: -- only seems to endear him to his base. should your congressman and other freshmen, at some point, compromise with the other side to keep the government running? >> not at all. >> no. >> the whole point -- >> that's why you were voted in. >> if everybody else has to cut and live within our means, why shouldn't the government? >> reporter: he says he may sign on to the compromise to fund
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government for just two weeks. a short reprieve, he says, from the bigger battle, which he won't shrink from. are you going to be a one-hit wonder? one term? >> possibly. here's why i say that. every decision i make these next two years is going to be to do what i think is right to help save this country, fiscally. if that doesn't get me re-elected, so be it. >> reporter: for "this week" i'm david kerley, fox lake, illinois. >> you heard the congressman saying, he's willing to shut down the government over the showdown with the white house and the democrats over spending cuts. the white house says they will not abide $61 billion in spending cuts in the house republican bill. should republicans be willing to shut down the government? >> i don't think so. i think government is a necessary evil. we need to continue. >> you don't mean evil. >> i do. well -- it's necessary. government is necessary to provide certain services. and they should be able to come to some solution.
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bottom line, they need to trim the budget. move on. need to get out of our lives as governors in our state. they need to take care of the federal government's responsibilities. they need to let us, to give us the flexibility we need to take care of our people in our states. >> should they risk a shutdown? >> i'm proud of them making the cuts. we have a leader that has to make decisions. the people have spoken. no, i don't think the government should shut down. it's up for the president to negotiate with the republicans. it's up to him to negotiate, not republicans. the last election said, less deficits, no dollars. i think the republican congressmen did that. the president needs to respond. >> very quickly. >> i think it took ten years to grow this deficit. a lot of the folks saying shut the government down didn't have a word to say when the deficits were being run up through the roof by president obama's predecessor.
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when he reaches out a hand, they need to reach back and act like the adults we set and expect in that building over there. when we return, christiane amanpour live from libya. stay with us. we return, krchristiane amanpour live from libya. from new zealand, pact ws textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 80% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.
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over big ideas and revolution in the air in the united states. the same is most definitely true here in libya and in the rest of the region. we're covering it all. watch for breaking news including how long the gadhafis will hold out here in tripoli. stay with abc news and for breaking news coverage thank you for watching. i'll see you next week. ab
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in the news this sunday, final preparations are underway in hollywood for tonight's 83 itself academy awards. and some record cold temperatures recorded overnight.
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