tv Matter of Fact With Soledad O Brien NBC September 15, 2019 5:00am-5:30am PDT
>> right now on "matter of fact." >> i haven't done nothing wrong. >> all right, let's go. >> handcuffed and humiliated a man dragged from his own home enough is enough. kazeem: i was so devastated and furious at the time. >> is racism in the ranks to blame? soledad: do you think that's too simplistic? malcolm: i think that's way too simplistic. >> does bestselling author malcolm gladwell have the answer? plus, does paying a high price for college really pay off? >> kids go to more selective colleges, they are more likely to earn more money as adults. >> what's really keeping your child from getting into the right school? soledad: i'm soledad o'brien.
welcome to "matter of fact." we wanted to examine a case out of raleigh, north carolina, where a police officer drew a gun and cuffed a man inside his own home after a burglar alarm went off. here's some video from kazeem oyeneyin's home security camera. >> put your hand behind your back and get down on your knees. >> for what? i just talked to the alarm people. soledad: backup arrives and police take oyeneyin outside in his underwear. about 8 minutes after being taken outside, police confirm his identity. >> this is the homeowner. soledad: do homeowners have rights in their homes? this video has been viewed more than 200,000 times on social media and drew a lot of responses. some people thought his rights had been violated. others said, what's the big deal, he wasn't killed. kazeem oyeneyin joins us with
his lawyer desmond andrande. thank you for being here. kazeem, start at the very beginning for me. your friend tripped your alarm. kazeem: yes, ma'am. soledad: and what happened? kazeem: i was asleep, so i didn't hear it beeping. after the 60 seconds, the alarm goes off. doo doo doo doo doo like a siren and that's what woke me up. soon as our alarm went off, i went downstairs, i disengaged it, and i went back upstairs and i laid down. 20 minutes later i just hear somebody screaming, yelling. so i grabbed my firearm, i go downstairs. soledad: what did you think was happening at that point? did you realize that it was in fact the police had come to your door? kazeem: well, i didn't realize in fact that it was the police. i just knew someone who was -- someone was inside. i figured it could possibly be somebody trying to rob me or the police. so once i turned the corner coming down the steps, i saw the uniform. i say, hey, i have a firearm in my hand. and he says, oh, you have a firearm. he says, drop the gun, and drop
it. he asks me to come outside. and get on my knees and i'm like i'm not coming outside. like the whole neighborhood. you know, like, all my neighbors are going to see me. he's like, turn around and get on your knees and put your hands up and face away from me. soledad: what was going through your mind when the officer told you to get on your knees and told you multiple times to turn your face away from him? kazeem: i was feeling like they was gonna shoot me. i felt like why would you want me to turn away from me and get on my knees. i want to see what's going on because i'm scared at this point. you got your gun pointed at me and i have on just my underwear and a cell phone in my hand. soledad: is it reasonable to think that a police officer would come to your house if an alarm goes off -- a burglar alarm goes off? kazeem: yes, ma'am. that's reasonable. i have had false alarms before, like five to be exact.
officers come to the house ask for id, write my name down, and they leave. but my problem is why wasn't i identified? why didn't we talk to our alarm people? why didn't you let me go get my id? why didn't i go get some mail with my name on it? why does it have to result in me going outside naked in front of everybody and y'all searching my home, going through closets and everything like that? it just didn't make sense to me. soledad: what part was the worst for you? kazeem: the worst part one, was being taken outside in cuffs or walking me three to four houses down and leaving me in the back seat of that car naked with no shoes and they could have the decency to at least let me go put on some pants. soledad: what happens legally now? why was he walked out of his home and stuck in a police car when identifying him as a homeowner would have been pretty straightforward? desmond: from my review of the video footage, from speaking to my client further, there is absolutely no reason it should have led to that point.
house alarms are triggered falsely on a regular basis. there was certainly no reason for the officer to enter his home and that's something that we're investigating as well. why was the doorway of his home entered in the first place? the home is where we are supposed to have the largest amount of protection pursuant to the constitution. you cannot enter io a peon's home without a warrant that -- that's supported by probable cause. soledad: isn't there probable cause that there might be a robbery happening if an alarm is going off and the police see the door somewhat ajar? desmond: that's a question that we're getting to the bottom of. the door was not ajar. the door was closed. we have evidence, we have other witnesses to corroborate that. we certainly hope that the raleigh police department will be forthcoming in their police camera footage, body cameras that will show the door was closed. soledad: the raleigh police say the alarm company didn't alert us to the fact that it was a false alarm. desmond: that's certainly a part of our investigation as well. the steps that the alarm company took once kazeem deactivated the
alarm. that's certainly troubling for us as well and we're exploring and trying to get more information in that regard also. soledad: people said to me when i told them we were doing a story, like why, he didn't get killed. it doesn't even meet the bar of doing a story on television. desmond: that's what we are. that's where we are today in the united states of america. we've seen videos where persons were angry and they had the subm thakazeem during thaty incident had a right to be angry. but i'm glad that he was able to keep a level head through that anger and comply and that allows us to be here with you today because it certainly could have been a much more tragic ending. but we don't need that to be able to say, hey, what's going on and to be able to hold the police department accountable becausthey should have never got to that point. soledad: kazeem and desmond, thank you, gentlemen, for coming in to talk to me.
>> next on "matter of fact," there's a growing list of republicans ready to challenge president trump in 2020. so, why won't some states let the voters have their say? and -- malcolm: we're really bad at making sense of strangers. we think we're good. we're not. >> from "tipping point" to "outliers," author malcolm gladwell's biggest challenge may be turning us into perfect gladwell's biggest challenge may be turning us into perfect strangers. sfx: upbeat music a lot of clothes you normally take to the cleaners aren't dirty dirty. they just need a quick refresh. try new febreze clothing quick dry mist. it eliminates odors and refreshes lightly-worn clothing. breathe happy febreze... la la la la la. dprevagen is the number onemild memopharmacist-recommendedng? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. this is jamie. you're going to be seeing a lot more of him now. -i'm not calling him "dad."
soledad: why do confrontations between law enforcement and people of color escalate so quickly? that is the question bestselling author malcolm gladwell attempts to answer in his new book, "talking to strangers: what we should know about the people we don't know." i recently sat down with malcolm to find out why he says we're so bad at understanding each other. so nice to see you. this has been described as a gladwellian intellectual adventure. what do you think that means?
malcolm: it means -- i don't know. it's a very extravagant term for a -- soledad: it's very over the top. malcolm: well, it's a -- i start with a single case which is one of the most notorious cases of recent memory, the death of sandra bland. she was the young african-american woman pulled over by the side of the road for no good reason by a police officer in texas, arrested. three days later she was dead in her cell. i spend the rest of the book trying to figure out what happened. and that discussion that -- that process goes in a hundred different places. maybe that's what's meant by an adventure story. it's not a linear story of one case. it begins with one case and then we end up talking about spies and amanda knox and bernie madoff and all kinds of other people who i think help us to understand how this particular tragedy unfolded. soledad: you often talk about
how decisions -- human beings make decisions good decisions, terrible decisions. why does how the mind work around decision-making or in this case who was a stranger and who we should trust, why does that interest you? malcolm: well, you know, i'm always interested in -- i'm always unsatisfied with the kinds of explanations that we give for events because i think we spend a little bit too much time explaining things like the -- i could make a list of 100 controversies. we love to explain them in purely personal terms. soledad: sandra bland, for example. you could say the cop was a racist. he saw her when she lit the cigarette and refused to put it out. every biased fiber of his body clicked in and it would end in disaster for sandra bland. do you think that's too simplistic? malcolm: i think that's way too simplistic. and by the way, there is a parallel discussion of that case
which is from the other perspective, which says sandra bland didn't respect authority because when she's stopped by this cop for no reason, she -- they start an argument and she -- she won't put it out when he says put it out. so there is another kind of conservative interpretation of that case which says it's all about her and she's a young black woman with an attitude and she shouldn't have an attitude -- attitude. both those explanations i find to be completely inadequate to understand this incident. so i think the crucial thing for me in this book and in many of my books is let's get beyond this surface interpretation. we live in a world in which it is constructed on ideas and assumptions and institutions are built that are based on certain patterns and practices and that's what we need to be looking at. soledad: is the goal in the book to get people to rethink how they think of strangers, or is
the goal to get people to rethink their own process as it refers to strangers? malcolm: probably both. what i would like us to do -- i mean, the project of the book in starting with this case and then moving on to all these other cases, spy stories and amanda knox and bernie madoff and jefferson and sandusky and -- is first of all to point out to us how inaccurate and routinely inaccurate our judgments of strangers are. we're really bad at making sense of strangers. we think we're good. we're not. soledad: all the time we're bad. malcolm: all the time we're bad. so let's just -- that is the product number one of the book is let's get down off our high horse. let's stop being so confident in the judgments we make of strangers. let's understand that we're bad at this. and once you understand we're bad at this, it means that you have to change the way you behave with strangers. soledad: the book is called "talk to strangers." malcolm gladwell, so nice to have you.
thank you. malcolm: thank you so much. >> when we come back, with students facing sticker shock when they head off to college, a lot families are asking -- soledad: does it matter where you go to college? >> what that diploma really means for your future pocketbook. plus, are republican voters paying the price for several states giving president trump a smoother path to reelection?
lives. for many, the college experience won't be over in four years. it'll last for decades after graduation in the form of student loans. total outstanding student debt in the u.s. has reached an all time high, nearly $1.5 trillion. the high cost of a college degree has many asking: is it worth it? according to a new survey, just 58% of americans say yes. paul tough, the author of the new book, "the years that matter most: how college makes or break us," is among those who say, a college degree can set you off on a very profitable path. it's nice to have you. paul: thank you. great to be here. soledad: does it matter where you go to college? paul: it does. i mean, for any individual student, you know, it doesn't. it's not a life or death situation where you go. but when you look at the data about colleges as a whole, it does make a difference. when kids go to more selective colleges, they are more likely to earn more money as adults. soledad: you open the book
discussing how the country was really founded on this concept of meritocracy and that also we have class fluidity unlike england and we have great social mobility unlike england. the elite college thing seems to put the kibosh on that a bit. paul: yeah, i think things have changed. so especially over the last 50 or so years, the way to get ahead in the united states has been through a college degree. that wasn't true in the past. i think it's still something that we have a hard time reconciling with our kind of american can-do spirit. but now that that is true, i think it has helped to recreate some of the aristocracy, some of the hierarchy that was there before. soledad: you write about the g.i. bill, and i was so interested to read that the presidents of harvard and the university of chicago did not sort of embrace the idea behind the g.i. bill. they were actually fearful when the g.i. bill became a thing.
paul: there was this idea that, well, what if all of these poorly educated g.i.'s, you know, most of them, like, some of them had didn't have a high school degree, a lot of them were farm boys. and now the g.i. bill was going to let them all show up on campus. and the idea was that that that wasn't what colleges were for. elite colleges were just for the rich kids. and if we let all these kids in in, it's going to be chaos, we're gonna have educational hobo jungles is what the president's call is such a crazy thing. soledad: they actually found very much the opposite. paul: yeah. so first of all, they did show up in big numbers which a lot of people were skeptical about the g.i.'s. and when they did, they worked incredibly hard and they succeeded. and it was really the first time in american history when this sort of working class and middle class kids who hadn't been a part of higher education before suddenly were. and it changed i think not only the face of higher education but it changed for a while anyway americans opinions of what higher education can do. soledad: when you talk about the admissions industrial conflicts, what do you mean? paul: so know that's a phrase
that one admissions director who i wrote about used and he talks about the way that admissions is now become this incredibly stressful profession. so i think when you're a parent or a kid, you think of admissions directors as these demigods up on mount olympus just making decisions and choosing the kids they want. but in reality, you know, a lot of colleges are under financial pressure and that financial pressure tends to trickle down to the admissions office and admissions people are under pressure to admit kids who can pay the tuition. soledad: are these the years that matter the most do you think at the end of the day? i mean, my daughter literally just went off to college. puts a lot of pressure and it's -- you're freaking me out a little bit actually and i've got one who's a senior in high school. so you're kind of freaking me out about that too. it's important, but it's not everything and that any every kid has a college that it's good for them. paul: and i think that's exactly the right message for any individual student. there are lots of different options especially if you've got resources in your family where
you go. doesn't matter that much. but for the country as a whole the patterns of who goes where and the fact that so many well-off kids are the ones who are going to these institutions that help your income so much and that so many low income students are going to much less well-resourced institutions that really does matter. that's a national problem. soledad: tough book is called the years that matter most. thanks for talking with us. paul: thank you very much. >> coming up next, canceled! who needs a presidential primary? several states say thanks but no thanks to that political process. is it undemocratic? or just politics as usual? plus, can you get on board with this new game? monopoly rolls the dice on feminism with their latest edition.
nevada, arizona, and kansas. this will smooth the path for president trump's 2020 race. he's now facing three challengers who now have four fewer opportunities to beat him, because the delegates from those states go directly to president trump. states have until october to submit their delegate selection rules to the republican national committee, and several more state republican parties could vote to cancel their nominating contests before the deadline. canceling primaries isn't unprecedented, but it's also not common. republicans and democrats canceled presidential nominating contests to protect incumbents in 1992, 1996, 2004, and 2012. >> when we return, ladies pass go and collect $240. an old board game gets a very modern makeover. modern makeover. upbeat music♪ no cover-up spray here. cheaper aerosols can cover up odors in a flowery fog.
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soledad: and finally, a classic board game gets a makeover to celebrate women's empowerment. "ms. monopoly" is a remix of hasbro's "monopoly." but in this version, the equal pay debate starts before the first roll of the dice. the banker gives female players 1900 monopoly dollars. the men only get $1500. and every time a female player passes "go," they collect 240 bucks, compared to the usual 200 bucks. instead of buying property, players invest in inventions created by women including bulletproof vests, solar heating, and chocolate chip cookies. to celebrate the launch, hasbro surprised some young female inventors and entrepreneurs by investing a total of more than $20,000 of real money into their projects. "ms. monopoly" comes on the heels of "monopoly socialism," a tongue-in-cheek edition of the game released last month. in that version, park place and boardwalk are replaced with the "healthcare for all hospital" and the "together we rise bakery." that's it for this edition of
robert handa: hello and welcome to "asian pacific america." i'm robert handa, your host for ouow here on nbc bay area and cozi tv. we start today's show with internet archive and, as its name implies, it is a program with a mission: a non-profit library of millions of free books, movies, software, music, websites, you name it, all to preserve the japanese american experience. a director and award-winning bay area journalist, wendy hanamura, will be here to tell us about its current project. then compulsive gambling. it is a problem in the asian american community that many know about, few talk about. but one program addresses it head on. it's called "betting on our future," getting young people involved in doing something about problem gambling. and we wrap with an interview and performance by bay area