tv 60 Minutes CBS November 16, 2014 7:00pm-8:02pm PST
this is your private bank. and ford >> stahl: it's getting harder and harder for the world to meet the demand for fresh water. so, as you'll see tonight, more and more of it is being pumped from deep underground. are you and are the farmers worried that, by going that deep, you are depleting the groundwater? >> well, yes, we are depleting it. but on the other hand, what choice do you have? >> stahl: what's the result of all this drilling? that's our story tonight. that's alarming. >> it should be. >> o'donnell: if you want to know what pope francis is planning to do to change the catholic church, you'd do well to ask his closest american advisor, cardinal sean o'malley. in st. peter's square, he stands
out in his humble brown robe and sandals, and stays with the pope at the vatican guest house. that means you're roommates with the pope. >> well, yes, you see him at all the meals. >> o'donnell: you knew him before. i mean, did you know that he would be this kind of a leader? >> i am delighted that he is beyond my expectations. >> ...hallway into the ambassador's office conference room. >> simon: for the uninitiated, "homeland" is hollywood's depiction of the 14-year clandestine war between the cia and islamic terrorists. mandy patinkin's character, a former top cia official, is the moral center of a messy, complicated world, where spies spin webs of deceit in a struggle most of us never see. >> a well constructed drama can do what no reality or news program can do. it can show both sides' opinions.
>> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bob simon. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm nora o'donnell. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories tonight on "60 minutes." at cricket wireless, we think you shouldn't have to worry about adding up all the taxes and fees to your monthly bill. that's why our plans start at just $35 bucks, after $5 auto pay credit, all in. taxes and fees included. cricket. something to smile about. toasty or frosty? exactly the way you want it ... until boom, it's bedtime! your mattress is a battleground of thwarted desire. enter the sleep number bed. right now save $400 on the c4 mattress set. he's the softy. his sleep number setting is 35. you're the rock, at 60. silent night not so silent? elk bellow sleep number's even got an adjustment for that. give the gift of amazing sleep, only at a sleep number store. where you'll find our lowest price ever on the c4 queen mattress -just $1499.98. ends sunday. know better sleep with sleep number.
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does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab >> stahl: it's been said that the wars of the 21st century may well be fought over water. the earth's population has more than doubled over the last 50 years, and the demand for freshwater-- to drink and to grow food-- has surged along with it.
but sources of water like rainfall, rivers, streams, reservoirs certainly haven't doubled, so where is all that extra water coming from? more and more, it's being pumped out of the ground. water experts say groundwater is like a savings account-- something you draw on in times of need. but savings accounts need to be replenished, and there is new evidence that so much water is being taken out, much of the world is in danger of a groundwater overdraft. california is entering its fourth year of a record-breaking drought. last year was the driest since the state started keeping records more than 100 years ago. and yet, pay a visit to california's central valley, and out of that parched land, you'll see acre upon acre of corn, almond trees, pomegranates, tomatoes, grapes. and what makes them all
possible-- water. where do you get water in a drought? you take it out of the savings account, groundwater. >> jay famiglietti: when we talk about surface water, we're talking about lakes and rivers. and when we're talking about groundwater, we're really talking about water below the water table. >> stahl: jay famiglietti, an earth sciences professor at the university of california irvine, is a leading expert on groundwater. >> famiglietti: it's like a sponge. it's like an underground sponge. >> stahl: he's talking about the aquifers where groundwater is stored-- layers of soil and rock, as he showed us in this simple graphic, that are saturated with water and can be drilled into, like the three wells shown here. you can actually pump it out of the crevices? >> famiglietti: imagine like trying to put a straw into a sponge. you can actually suck water right out of a sponge. it's a very similar process. >> stahl: sucking the water out of those aquifers is big business these days in the
central valley. well driller steve arthur is a very busy man. >> steve arthur: all the farmers, they don't have no surface water. they've got to keep these crops alive. the only way to do that is to drill wells, pump the water from the ground. >> stahl: so it's either drill or go out of business? >> arthur: yes. >> stahl: so there's something of a groundwater rush going on here. arthur's seven rigs are in constant use, and his waiting list is well over a year. and because some wells here are running dry, he's having to drill twice as deep as he did just a year or two ago. this well will cost the farmer a quarter of a million dollars, and go down 1,200 feet, about the height of the empire state building. are you and are the farmers worried that, by going that deep, you are depleting the groundwater? >> arthur: well, yes, we are depleting it. but on the other hand, what
choice do you have? this is the most fertile valley in the world. you can grow anything you want here. if we don't have water to grow something, it's going to be a desert. >> stahl: he said many farmers think the problem is cyclical and that once the drought ends, things will be okay. now, when they take water out and it rains... >> famiglietti: yes. >> stahl: ...doesn't the water go back down there? >> famiglietti: these aquifers near the surface, they can sometimes be replenished very quickly. if we're talking about a deeper aquifer, that could take tens or hundreds of years to recharge. >> stahl: figuring out how much is being depleted from those aquifers deep underground isn't easy. hydrologist claudia faunt took us to what looked like someone's backyard shed, where she and her colleagues at the u.s. geological survey monitor groundwater levels in the central valley the way they always have-- by dropping a sensor down a monitoring well. so this is a well. >> claudia faunt: this is a well.
we have a tape here that has a sensor on the end. >> stahl: oh, let me see. the geological survey has 20,000 wells like this across the country. it's a tape measure. >> faunt: it's a tape measure. >> stahl: how will you know when it's hit water? >> faunt: it's going to beep. >> stahl: by comparing measurements from different wells over time, they get the best picture they can of where groundwater levels stand. she unspooled and unspooled, until finally... ( beeping ) >> stahl: oh. it startled me, as did the result--- a five-foot drop in just one month. >> faunt: right now, we're reaching water levels that are at historic lows. they're like... >> stahl: historic lows? >> faunt: right. at this site, water levels have dropped about 200 feet in the last few years. >> stahl: gathering data from holes in the ground like this has been the only way to get a handle on groundwater depletion. that is, until 2002 and the launch of an experimental nasa satellite called grace. what does "grace" stand for? >> mike watkins: so, "grace" stands for "gravity recovery and
climate experiment." >> stahl: mike watkins is head of the science division at nasa's jet propulsion laboratory in pasadena. he was the mission manager for the latest mars rover mission, and he is the project scientist for grace. >> watkins: so, the way grace works is it's... it's two satellites. >> stahl: two? >> watkins: they're actually measuring each other's orbit very, very accurately. >> stahl: what affects that orbit is gravity. >> watkins: as the first one comes up on some extra mass, an area of higher gravity, it gets pulled away... >> stahl: it goes faster. >> watkins: ...from the second spacecraft. >> stahl: and that's where water comes in. since water has mass, it affects the pull of gravity. so after the first grace satellite approaches an area that's had lots of heavy rain, for example, and is pulled ahead, the second one gets there, feels the pull, and catches up. the instruments are constantly measuring the distance between the two. >> watkins: their changes in separation, their changes in their orbit are a little different this month than last month because water moved
around, and it changed the gravity field just enough. >> stahl: so grace can tell whether an area has gained water weight or lost it. so grace is like a big scale in the sky? >> watkins: absolutely. >> stahl: grace can also tell how much water an area has gained or lost. scientists can then subtract out the amount of rain and snowfall, and what's left are the changes in groundwater. it's kind of brilliant to think that a satellite in the sky is measuring groundwater. >> watkins: it is fantastic. >> famiglietti: i thought it was complete nonsense. there's no way we can see groundwater from space. >> stahl: jay famiglietti started out a skeptic, but that was before he began analyzing the data grace sent back. the first place he looked was india. he showed us a time-lapse animation of the changes grace detected there over the last 12 years. note the dates on the lower right. the redder it gets, the greater the loss of water. oh, look at that. he calculated that more than
half the loss was due to groundwater depletion. >> famiglietti: and this is a huge agricultural region. >> stahl: have they been doing the same kind of pumping that we're seeing in california? >> famiglietti: yes. >> stahl: it got so dark red. >> famiglietti: yeah, that's bad. >> stahl: his india findings were published in the journal "nature." but as he showed us, india wasn't the only red spot on the grace map. >> famiglietti: this is right outside beijing. bangladesh, and then across southern asia. >> stahl: he noticed a pattern. >> famiglietti: they are almost exclusively located over the major aquifers of... of the world. and those are also our big food- producing regions. so, we're talking about groundwater depletion in the aquifers that supply irrigation water to grow the world's food. >> stahl: if that isn't worrisome enough, some of those aquifer systems are in volatile regions-- for instance, this one that is shared by syria, iraq, iran, and turkey. >> famiglietti: turkey's built a bunch of dams, stored a bunch of water upstream.
that forces the downstream neighbors to use more groundwater, and the groundwater's being depleted. >> stahl: oh, my. >> famiglietti: we're seeing this water loss spread literally across iran, iraq, and into syria and down... >> stahl: progressive. famiglietti, who's now moved to the jet propulsion lab to work on grace, has started traveling around the world, trying to alert governments and academics to the problem, and he isn't the only one who's worried. a 2012 report from the director of national intelligence warned that, within ten years, "many countries important to the united states will experience water problems that will risk instability and state failure," and cited the possible "use of water as a weapon or to further terrorist objectives." water is the new oil. >> famiglietti: it's true. it's... it's headed in that direction. >> stahl: and what about our own food-producing regions, like california's central valley, which produces 25% of the nation's food. what is grace telling us there? 2008.
>> famiglietti: right. >> stahl: '09... >> famiglietti: and now, things are going to start to get very red. >> stahl: grace is confirming what the geological survey well measures have shown, but giving a broader and more frightening picture, since it shows that the rainy years are not making up for the losses. ( gasps ) '14-- dark red. that's alarming. >> famiglietti: it should be. >> stahl: so much groundwater has been pumped out here that the geological survey says it's causing another problem-- parts of the valley are literally sinking. it's called subsidence. >> faunt: so the ground basically collapses or compresses down, and the land sinks. >> stahl: the land is sinking down. she said, at this spot, the ground is dropping several inches a year. >> faunt: and north of here, it's more like a foot per year. >> stahl: that sounds like a lot, a foot a year. >> faunt: it's some of the fastest rates we have ever seen in the valley, and in the world. >> stahl: she says it's caused damage to infrastructure--
buckles in canals and sinking bridges. here the land has sunk six feet. it used to be level with the top of this concrete slab. and this is because of the pumping of the groundwater? >> faunt: yes. >> stahl: is there any limit on a farmer as to how much he can actually take out of this groundwater? >> faunt: not right now in the state of california. >> stahl: none? >> faunt: as long as you put it to a beneficial use, you can take as much as you want. >> stahl: but what's beneficial to you may not be beneficial to your neighbor. when you dig a well like this, are you taking water from the next farm? >> arthur: i would say, yeah, we're taking water from everybody. >> stahl: well, is that neighbor going to be unhappy? >> arthur: no. everybody knows that there's a water problem. everybody knows you got to drill deeper, deeper. and it's funny you say that, because we're actually going to drill a well for that farmer next door also. >> stahl: making things worse, farmers have actually been planting what are known as "thirsty" crops. we saw orchard after orchard of
almond trees. almonds draw big profits, but they need water all year long, and farmers can never let fields go fallow or the trees will die. but with all the water depletion here, we did find one place that is pumping water back into its aquifer. look, it really looks ickier up close. we took a ride with mike markus, general manager of the orange county water district and a program some call "toilet to tap." they take 96 million gallons a day of treated wastewater from a county sanitation plant-- and yes, that includes sewage-- and, in effect, recycle it. he says in 45 minutes, this sewage water will be drinkable. >> mike markus: you'll love it. >> stahl: you think i'm going to drink that water? >> markus: yes, you will. >> stahl: they put the wastewater through an elaborate three-step process-- suck it
through microscopic filters, force it through membranes, blast it with u.v. light. by the end, markus insists it's purer than the water we drink. but it doesn't go straight to your tap. they send it to this basin, and then use it to replenish the groundwater. >> famiglietti: it's amazing. because of recycling of sewage water, they've been able to arrest that decline in the groundwater. >> stahl: all right, i'm going to do it. all that was left was to try it. to tell the truth, it wasn't bad. i can't believe how brave i am. 45 minutes ago, this was sewer water. >> markus: and now, it's drinkable. >> stahl: he says it's a great model for big cities around the country. but it's not the answer for areas like the central valley, which is sparsely populated and therefore doesn't produce enough waste. so, at least for now, it's
continuing withdrawals from that savings account. will there be a time when there is zero water in the aquifer for people in california? >> famiglietti: unless we take action, yes. >> stahl: california has just taken action, enacted a law that, for the first time, takes steps toward regulating groundwater. but it could take 25 years to fully implement. sponsored by: >> good evening. vladimir putin left the g-20 summit early after russia was sharply criticized for its actions in ukraine. the senate likely votes on the keystone xl pipeline on tuesday, and with thanksgiving approaching, turkey production in the u.s. is at its lowest level since 1986. i'm jeff glor, cbs news.
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>> o'donnell: at the heart of pope francis' revolution in the catholic church is a shy franciscan friar, the pope's closest american advisor, cardinal sean o'malley. the pope has appointed him president of the church's crucial new commission to combat child abuse, and named him a member of the council of cardinals, the pope's small "kitchen cabinet" charged with helping redraw the way the church is governed. soft-spoken and unassuming, he is usually dressed in the brown habit of his capuchin franciscan order and not in a cardinal's red robes. he goes by "cardinal sean," and like pope francis, he is more inclined to conversation than condemnation. he commutes to rome from his day
job as archbishop of boston to help francis remake an ancient institution. >> sean o'malley: it's a very different world now, because of his style. >> o'donnell: part of that style includes the pope's reliance on advisors like cardinal sean o'malley. o'malley not only works closely with the pope, but stays with him at the vatican guesthouse when he comes to rome on business. when you come here to rome, you stay at the domus sanctae marthae, which is just right over there. >> o'malley: yes, ordinarily. yeah. >> o'donnell: that means you're roommates with the pope? >> o'malley: well, yes, you see him at all the meals, and... and very often will go and celebrate mass with him in the morning. and... and we have our meetings right there. >> o'donnell: cardinal o'malley and then-cardinal jorge bergoglio of buenos aires became fast friends when the boston archbishop visited argentina on church business in 2010. if you want to understand pope francis, you'd do well to look at cardinal o'malley.
you knew him before. i mean, did you know that he would be this kind of a leader? >> o'malley: i knew that he would be different. i am delighted that he is beyond my expectations. >> o'donnell: both share the same outlook-- open, non- judgmental, given to simple living, and not afraid to consider change. one change is the pope's recognition that child abuse is a church-wide problem that can no longer be ignored or covered up by bishops. o'malley has more experience than any bishop in the church when it comes to cleaning up child abuse. and pope francis turned to him to lead a new child protection commission for the entire church. >> o'malley: well, it's something that i brought to the commission of cardinals, and we've talked about it. and the cardinals were very, very supportive. and the holy father, he's a great listener. >> o'donnell: has the vatican
resisted it in the past? >> o'malley: i think even here, particularly in the past, there was the feeling that this was an american problem. >> o'donnell: but is there a recognition inside the vatican that this is intolerable. >> o'malley: certainly, the holy father is very, very aware of that, and very committed to zero tolerance and responding in a proper way to this phenomenon of child abuse. >> o'donnell: despite his office and influence in rome, cardinal o'malley is a modest man, reluctant to put himself forward. he is humble, a true franciscan, who would rather be addressed as "cardinal sean" than "your eminence." it took more than a year to convince him to agree to an interview. but he is so approachable, you can talk with him about nearly anything. now, your shoes look a lot more comfortable than mine. >> o'malley: ( laughs ) well, 50 years of wearing
sandals, you... >> o'donnell: well, do you ever have to wear closed-toe shoes? >> o'malley: well, when... when i'm disguised as a cardinal. >> o'donnell: yes. >> o'malley: which isn't very often. >> o'donnell: his reputation for cleaning up the church began when he was installed as bishop of fall river, massachusetts, where o'malley inherited one of the most notorious child abuse cases in history. instead of lawyering up, o'malley began reaching out directly to victims, settling cases and acting as a pastor, not a c.e.o. his success led to a transfer to palm beach, where the previous two bishops resigned after accusations of abuse. then, in 2002, the vatican sent him to boston. were you worried? >> o'malley: yes. terrified. >> o'donnell: terrified because the archdiocese of boston, the onetime symbol of american catholicism, was dissolving, thanks to what was then the biggest sex abuse scandal in church history.
>> o'malley: there were a thousand lawsuits against us. the seminary was empty. as i say, such anger, disappointment, upset on the part of the people. >> o'donnell: this was a pretty tough assignment? >> o'malley: it was... somebody described it as a "fixer-upper." ( laughter ) >> o'donnell: and he began fixing it up on his first day on the job, 11 years ago, by doing something bishops seldom do-- admitting what had happened and apologizing for it. >> o'malley: at the beginning of this installation ceremony, i again ask forgiveness for all the harm done to young people by clergy, religious, and hierarchy. >> o'donnell: sean o'malley set a new tone in boston. the first thing he did was sell the palatial archbishop's residence and the 28 sprawling acres it sat on. >> o'malley: the archbishop's residence was more house than... than i needed. >> o'donnell: did you realize
how big an impact it would have? >> o'malley: well, i knew it would have an economic impact on the diocese. and at the time, i was very grateful that we had this mansion to unload and... because we sold it for over $100 million. >> o'donnell: o'malley moved into the modest cathedral rectory. he has a deep devotion to working with the poor, particularly immigrants, and is a prominent voice-- in any of eight languages-- in the catholic church's call for immigration reform. earlier this year, he led a mass at the border wall in nogales, arizona, even distributing communion through the fence to call attention to the problem and the church's position on reform. the pope, who has been a strong voice for immigrant rights, called it "a powerful picture." but it is o'malley's work to reform the church on child abuse where he has made the biggest
impact. for many people outside the church and inside the church, the biggest scandal isn't the predators, it's the bishops-- the bishops who protected them and lied about them and moved them from parish to parish. and many of these predators have been prosecuted, but the bishops have not. why is that? >> o'malley: one of the first things that came up is the importance of accountability. and we're looking at how the church could have protocols, how to respond when a bishop has not been responsible for the protection of children in his diocese. >> o'donnell: i want to ask you about robert finn, who is the bishop of kansas city/st. joseph and, as you know, he pleaded guilty to a criminal misdemeanor for not reporting one of his priests to authorities.
bishop finn wouldn't be able to teach sunday school in boston. >> o'malley: that's right. >> o'donnell: how is that zero tolerance that he's still in place? what does it say to catholics? >> o'malley: well, it's... it's a question that the holy see needs to address urgently. >> o'donnell: and there's a recognition? >> o'malley: there's a recognition of that. >> o'donnell: from pope francis? >> o'malley: from pope francis. >> o'donnell: the cardinal's careful candor isn't limited to the church's mishandling of abuse. take the vatican doctrine office's crackdown on american nuns for focusing more on social justice than issues like abortion and contraception, placing the nuns under the supervision of three bishops. it looked like a crackdown from men at the vatican on... >> o'malley: a disaster. >> o'donnell: a disaster? >> o'malley: disaster. >> o'donnell: should there be more women in positions of power
in the curia? >> o'malley: yes. i think there should be. and hopefully, there will be. >> o'donnell: when? >> o'malley: well, that... i can't tell you what time, but hopefully, soon. >> o'donnell: so far, there is little in the way of concrete change, but cardinal o'malley spends one week every other month in rome. otherwise, he and the pope stay in contact using a technology that seems almost as dated as illuminated manuscripts. >> o'malley: usually the... we fax. >> o'donnell: really? >> o'malley: yes. >> o'donnell: you fax with the pope? >> o'malley: yes. >> o'donnell: people still communicate by fax? >> o'malley: still communicate by fax. >> o'donnell: like, with letters or... >> o'malley: uh-huh. >> o'donnell: really? >> o'malley: oh. very quick and efficient, and... and a little more private than... >> o'donnell: really? most people think... >> o'malley: safer. >> o'donnell: oh, really? >> o'malley: uh-huh. >> o'donnell: most people think texting is quicker than faxing. >> o'malley: well, the pope and
i aren't about texting. ( laughter ) >> o'donnell: his choice of communication technology is not the only thing conservative about him. church traditionalists accuse him of being a closet liberal for participating in ecumenical services and presiding at the funeral of abortion rights supporter ted kennedy. but the cardinal is a hard-liner on catholic doctrine. like pope francis, he upholds traditional positions on abortion, gay marriage, birth control, and women's ordination. the church says it's not open to discussion about ordaining women. why not? >> o'malley: well, not everyone needs to be ordained to... to have an important role in the life of the church. women run the catholic charities, the catholic schools, the development office for the archdiocese. >> o'donnell: some would say women do a lot of the work, but have very little power. >> o'malley: well, "power" is not a word that we like to use in the church. it's more "service."
>> o'donnell: but they can't preach. they can't administer the sacraments. >> o'malley: well... >> o'donnell: i mean, some women feel like they're second-class catholics because they can't do those things that are very important. >> o'malley: well, they... but they're... they have other very important roles that, you know, are... a priest cannot be a mother, either. the tradition of the church is that we have always ordained men, and that the priesthood reflects the incarnation of christ who, in his humanity, is a man. >> o'donnell: but in spite of that, does the exclusion of women seem at all immoral? >> o'malley: well, christ would never ask us to do something immoral. and i... i know that...
>> o'donnell: the sense of equality. i mean, just the sense of sort of the fairness of it, you know. you wouldn't exclude someone based on race, but yet you do exclude people based on gender. >> o'malley: well, it's a matter of vocation, and what god has given to us. and this is... you know, if i were founding a church, you know, i'd love to have women priests. but christ founded it and it... what he has given us is something different. >> o'donnell: but god is not afraid of change, as pope francis has told his bishops, and cardinal o'malley is thrilled with his old friend. >> o'malley: i always had admiration for him, but to see how he has made this extraordinary impact on the church is so gratifying. >> o'donnell: and will change
the future of this church. >> o'malley: there's no doubt. >> welcome to the cbs sports update presented by pacific life. i'm james brown with scores from around the nfl today. andy dalton throws three touchdowns as cincinnati moves back atop the a.f.c. north while atlanta knocks off carolina to move to first place in the n.f.c. south. jay cut hair and brandon marshall first win of the arizona improves to 9-1. and kc wins its fifth straight in the a.f.c. west. for more sports news and information, go to cbssports.com. it on the long journey to their feeding grounds. one of the most important things you can do is help the next generation. at pacific life, we offer financial solutions to accomplish just that.
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>> simon: mandy patinkin may not be a household name, but he is one of the most versatile performers we've ever met. he is a classically trained but barely restrained stage actor... a no-holds-barred concert singer... and a scene-stealing star of the big and small screens. for four decades, mandy has put everything he has into every role he's played. but a funny thing happened along the way to stardom.
again and again, mandy's career has unraveled at the hands of an unlikely villain-- himself. now, at 61, his raw talent has carried him to the top again, with his portrayal of a cia spy chief in "homeland," the critically-acclaimed drama airing on cbs' sister network, showtime. >> mandy patinkin: this is our point of view. so it's what we're seeing. >> simon: we met him at this outdoor location in, of all places, cape town, where two streets have been transformed into a remote town in pakistan. the show came to south africa because of the light, the ethnic diversity of the extras and, primarily, because of the tax breaks. >> patinkin: so i'm going to give you a little tour. >> simon: they even relocated the entire "homeland" soundstage here. mandy, who plays spy saul berenson, was happy to show us around, at breakneck speed. >> patinkin: this is the hall of presidents.
>> simon: does saul walk this fast? >> patinkin: yes, he does. >> simon: for the uninitiated, "homeland" is hollywood's depiction of the 14-year clandestine war between the cia and islamic terrorists. patinkin's character, a former top cia official, is the moral center of a messy, complicated world, where spies spin webs of deceit in a struggle most of us never see. >> patinkin: on occasion, a well-constructed drama can do what no reality or news program can do, what shakespeare does brilliantly, is it can show both sides' opinions. >> we did not fly those planes into the world trade center, al qaeda did. >> patinkin: you harbored osama bin laden. >> bin laden was a saudi. i don't see you invading that country. >> patinkin: we came here to kill or capture those directly responsible. >> simon: did you talk to cia people before you played the part? >> patinkin: yes, i did. and i continue to.
and i'm not allowed to tell you who they are. >> simon: don't tell me who they are, but tell me what they tell you and how you react to it. >> patinkin: you know, i talk to a variety of them. so i'm going to pick the one that meets mandy's/saul's heart and tempo and temperature. and so i found that guy, and he tells me stuff, because he wants me to understand how he cares about the world and why he does some of the horrible things that he does-- quote unquote, "horrible." >> simon: but he does it. >> patinkin: he does it because he's a soldier. >> simon: this season begins with an american bombing of a wedding party, kicking off a new cycle of vengeance and violence. >> patinkin: i think the question of this particular season that i rarely see in american television is, who is the bad guy? is america possibly the bad guy? >> simon: heavy stuff for an actor who made his name in musical theater. >> patinkin: ♪ bit by bit! only way to make a work of art. ♪ every moment makes a contribution ♪ every little detail plays a part!
>> simon: this was mandy 30 years ago, starring in sondheim's "sunday in the park with george." he'd already won a tony for "evita," and critics' praise for his "fiercely intelligent" performances. >> patinkin: ♪ putting it together ♪ bit by bit! >> simon: his preparation is legendary. he learned to fence for his most famous role in "the princess bride," which also gave him his most memorable line. >> patinkin: hello. my name is inigo montoya. you killed my father. prepare to die. >> simon: people ask him to recite it to this day, so we did, too. >> patinkin: hello. my name is inigo montoya. you killed my father. prepare to die. >> simon: then there are the people who know mandy for this: ♪ ♪ >> simon: he does nearly 50 concerts a year in cities across the country, singing an eclectic blend of show tunes, rock
anthems, and folk songs. not bad for a guy who doesn't read music. >> patinkin: i'm a lyrically driven person. i am not a musically driven person. that's why i love sondheim. that's why i love shakespeare. that's why i love irving berlin and rodgers and hammerstein and tom waits and paul simon and randy newman. they're storytellers. >> simon: have you always talked so fast? >> patinkin: yes. and i was horrified. i saw an interview that i did with someone, and i was horrified by it. and i said to my wife, "this is unbearable how i talk." >> simon: it's unbearable for me, it's hard... ( laughter ) >> patinkin: i'm sorry, i'll shut up. >> simon: no, it's not a question of shutting up. i mean, you go for two minutes without taking a breath. it's very hard to pop in a question. >> patinkin: i guess the reason is there's various things that have popped up that i really want to say before i check out, if i can leave something behind. >> simon: the next time we met, at his rustic retreat in upstate new york, he told us he'd already cleaned the house and taken a ten-mile bike ride to burn off some excess energy. he also went through a ritual he
conducts before big interviews and performances. >> patinkin: i recite every name of every person that i've known who's passed on. and i do that because there was a line in the libretto of "carousel", and the line is: "as long as there's one person on earth who remembers you, it isn't over." and i... it's a game i play that gives me... >> simon: it's not a game, it's very serious. >> patinkin: it is a game. the whole ball of wax is a game- - your life, my life, politics, economy, hunger... >> simon: by definition, a game has winners and losers. >> patinkin: yes, it does. i think we all lose in the end because we don't get to stay here forever. that is a part of the game, at this point, i think, is a profound flaw. >> simon: despite roles in a handful of big films, including "ragtime," he never became a leading man, partly because of two epic mistakes, career
blunders that he rarely discusses in public. you actually think i'm not going to ask you what those mistakes were? >> patinkin: that's fine, i'll tell you what they were. one was having said yes to do the movie "heartburn" with mike nichols and meryl streep, when i knew it wasn't right for me. but how could i turn down mike and meryl? and i wanted to be a movie star, and i wanted to be powerful, and i wanted to be more famous than i was at that time. and i didn't like the piece. >> simon: and it showed. director mike nichols fired him after one day, and replaced him with jack nicholson. >> jack nicholson: i'm mark foreman. >> simon: after that, his leading roles were mostly on television. >> patinkin: come on! >> simon: he won an emmy playing a doctor in chicago hope. >> patinkin: i'm jason gideon. >> simon: then starred as an fbi profiler in "criminal minds." but in an infamous real-life episode, mandy abruptly quit that show, saying he objected to the content, leaving his castmates, crew, and cbs high
and dry. >> patinkin: wasn't their mistake. it was mine. i chose it because i was greedy. i wanted more money. i was always worried about money. and i was always worried that i needed more money, and i needed to be more famous to get more money, and this and that and everything. when the fact of the matter is, which my wife always says to me, we have never wanted. she said, "where do you get this fear from?" i don't know. maybe it's genetic, maybe it's nonsense. but it's greed. >> simon: he thought he'd never work in television again. for years, his reputation as an obsessive, hard-to-handle actor preceded him. you have such a clear vision of what you're doing. is it ever painful for you to take instruction from a director? >> patinkin: it used to be, and i wouldn't do it for years, and i was ashamed of myself. and i apologize. i've apologized in print, i apologize here because... >> simon: but i'm sure sometimes you were right and they were wrong.
>> patinkin: who cares? who cares if i was right and i was... and they were wrong? "you're a person, you're directing me, you're talking to me. be a human being, listen to you. is it cancer? is it world peace? no, it's a movie, it's a tv show. try!" >> simon: he can be hard on himself, tracing some of that anger back to the loss of his father when mandy was 18. >> patinkin: i remember he dreamed of things-- "i'm going to go do this, i'm going to go do that when the kids are older," and then he died from pancreatic cancer and he didn't do it. and i remember that 18-year-old kid said, "i'm not going to wait." and... and i became impatient for anything i dreamed of, i wanted it done by sundown. >> simon: and he wanted to remember every moment of every day. >> patinkin: this is recreating my father's junkyard, the scrap corporation people's iron and metal company on the south side of chicago at loomis and hoyne. >> simon: he showed us how he's documented his life with an electric train set. he spent decades building this world.
it takes him back more than 50 years. >> patinkin: in many ways, they saved my childhood. i lived under that train table and it was like a little tree house, like a refuge to me. >> simon: mandy's retreat. >> patinkin: yeah. those trains right up there on that shelf, those are the trains my father bought me when i was eight years old. those are the first trains and every one of them works perfectly. this is my ma. she was a great cook, so we named the diner after her. >> simon: every piece has a story. and we found ourselves still shooting late that night. >> patinkin: guys? somebody come in here with us. this is a real fun thing! >> simon: by then, mandy had talked us under the table. >> patinkin: i like the trolley because it doesn't break down. >> simon: there it is. there it is. >> patinkin: it is great! >> kathryn patinkin: i think one of the best kept secrets about my husband is how damn funny he is. >> simon: mandy's wife of 34 years and the mother of his two sons is actress kathryn grody. she says what attracted her was his authenticity, even though he
could put some people off. >> kathryn patinkin: he doesn't know the intensity that he comes off as. he can certainly be obnoxious. and he has three members of his family who have no problem in saying "dad, that was obnoxious." >> simon: so the family is not scared of him. >> kathryn patinkin: well, not anymore. i mean i would... you know, it's an interesting, the nature/nurture thing. i think my youngest son was never, ever afraid of this guy, ever. >> mandy patinkin: he taught my older one and my wife more about how to handle me. before i learned to handle my moods. and i'd had mood struggles. >> simon: "homeland" has turned out to be an antidote to those struggles, resurrecting his career, and giving him something else-- the role of the quiet, wise saul berenson, which he says is not so much a stretch as an aspiration. saul comes across as very calm, almost avuncular. this is about as far as you can get from mandy patinkin.
>> patinkin: mandy is not calm. so that's acting. ( laughs ) i'm acting. and... and i love playing someone calm. i wish i'd had that role earlier on in life. there's a lot of saul i like to take with me in my life. >> simon: what would you like to take with you? >> patinkin: his quiet, his ability to truly, legitimately listen, his lack of a need to speak first to get his ideas out. >> simon: has this really affected you? >> patinkin: not enough. ♪ sometimes, i think we're on the right track... >> simon: when he finishes playing saul, he'll go back to being mandy, diving into an experimental musical with his longtime pianist paul ford and actor taylor mac. he told us his purpose in life can be summed up in a single word-- "connect." singing and performing have always been his surest means of doing that. >> patinkin: ♪ didn't mean to make you cry
♪ if i'm not back again this time tomorrow ♪ carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters... somebody just offered me a part the other day, the older guy in a film. and i remember saying to the guy, "i'm so sad that i'm old enough to play this part, and i'm so grateful that i am." because, you know, all that clicheéd things-- you really do learn something if you get... if you get the luck of being able to hang around. even if it's a rough ride, you learn. >> mandy patinkin takes bob simon on a tour of the "homeland" set. go to 60minutesovertime.com. sponsored by lyrica. i kept on top of things. i was energetic. then the chronic, widespread
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the $197 mattress sale... bulldog: oh boy! television announcer: ...is on now. ♪ mattress discounters >> stahl: in the mail this week, comments on lara logan's story on american medical personnel caring for ebola patients in liberia. many of the writers were medical workers themselves. "not only are these mostly american workers putting themselves in harm's way to provide compassionate care to those afflicted with ebola, they may be saving the world." "when you showed u.s. military folks constructing hospitals in liberia, you did not mention the only u.s. government medical personnel treating ebola victims there are officers in the u.s. public health service. their work goes unmentioned far too often." i'm lesley stahl.
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oh, and matt... you know i count on your discretion. of course. yes. what did he want? nothing. you're lying. no, i'm not. and you're bad at it. look, if i were lying, which i am not, you would never know. so the secretary just wanted to shoot the breeze? we have a rapport. oh, please. you know, you're just... you're just jealous that the big guy is taking an interest in me. wait, that man would eat his young for a leg up. you're mistaking cozy for something else. you wanted to see me, mr. secretary? yes. come in. i am sorry, but i have to cancel our weekend. is it your wife? no, it's personal business. can i ask what? you can ask me anything. it's an estate matter