tv 60 Minutes CBS January 14, 2018 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> logan: in all of the years we've been coming to afghanistan's capital city of kabul, it's never been this dangerous. so dangerous that american personnel rarely drive on the city streets. you can hear how bad it's become in the afghan president's voice. your soldiers and your policemen are dying in unprecedented numbers. >> ghani: indeed. >> logan: how long can that be sustained? >> ghani: until we secure afghanistan. >> logan: how long is that? how long until you secure it? >> ghani: as long as it takes. generations if need be! >> logan: the u.s. isn't going to be here for generations. >> ghani: we will be here for generations. we do not need others to fight our fight. >> martin: you might think its impossible to know what's going on inside north korea's nuclear
program-- >> hecker: here i am. >> martin: --but this american scientist was given a red carpet tour. >> hecker: we got up to the second floor, and looked down at a hall. >> martin: and you saw? >> hecker: i was just flabbergasted. i could not believe what i was seeing. >> martin: he visited not once, but seven times. u.s. intelligence now estimates north korea has the ability to arm up to 60 nuclear weapons. kim jong-un is ecstatic about that, and doesn't care that his program is not a secret anymore. >> hecker: their confidence level, you know, is amazing! >> wertheim: portland, oregon sits in one of the most beautiful spots in america. 90 miles to the east, majestic mt, hood. 90 miles to the west, the pacific coast. for portland's 650,000 residents their scenic locale is paired with a liberal spirit. all cycling and recycling. >> brownstein: is that u.s.d.a. organic, or oregon organic, or portland organic? >> waitress: it's just all across the board, organic. >> wertheim: and an entire tv
show, "portlandia" skewers the city's progressiveness and preciousness. >> waitress: the chicken you will be enjoying tonight, his name was collin. here are his papers, okay? >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm scott pelley. >> i'm lara logan. >> i'm david martin. >> i'm bill whitaker. those stories tonight, on "60 minutes." ♪ ♪ i can do more to lower my a1c. because my body can still make its own insulin. and i take trulicity once a week to activate my body to release it, like it's supposed to. trulicity is not insulin. it comes in a once-weekly, truly easy-to-use pen.
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in that time, america's goals and strategies have changed. now there's another new plan. president trump has sent 3,000 more troops to train and assist the afghan army. but in the afghan capital, you don't have to go far to see the problems. kabul is so dangerous, american diplomats and soldiers are not allowed to use the roads. they can't just drive two miles from the airport to u.s. headquarters. they have to fly. after all these years, a trillion dollars, and 2,400 american lives, kabul is under siege. this is rush hour at kabul international airport-- a swarm of helicopters that's earned the nickname "embassy air." it's how americans and their allies working at the u.s. embassy and military headquarters travel back and forth from the airport.
it's just a five-minute flight. the chopper we boarded was making its tenth trip of the day. >> seat belts on at all times. no smoking! everyone good? >> logan: a few years ago, american convoys regularly drove on the airport road below. now, the view from the helicopter window is all most on board will see of kabul. they'll stay behind blast walls for the rest of their time in afghanistan. we wanted to know what it says about where we are in this war, if american troops can't drive two miles down a road in kabul. >> john nicholson: it's a country at war. and it's a capital that is under attack by a determined enemy. >> logan: no u.s. general has spent more time here than john nicholson, the commander of american forces in afghanistan. >> nicholson: we do everything possible to protect our forces. so-- >> logan: you're not using the roads.
>> nicholson: protecting the lives of our troops is our number-one priority. if we can fly instead of drive and that offers them a greater degree of safety, then it's the prudent and the right thing to do. >> logan: in military terms, that's called surrendering the terrain. >> nicholson: i disagree. i think it's answering our moral imperative to protect the lives of our soldiers and civilians. so that's what we do. >> logan: but this isn't some remote outpost. it's the capital. when the u.s. first came here, the population was 500,000. now it's more than five million. refugees, people desperate for work, and terrorists have flooded kabul. general nicholson showed us how vulnerable the city has become. >> nicholson: a suicide bomber is going to go in here, he's going to kill himself. he doesn't care about his future. vastly easier than what the afghan security forces have to do. >> logan: because he doesn't have to have an exit strategy. >> nicholson: exactly. >> logan: how easy is it to infiltrate the city, especially one this big?
>> nicholson: yeah, right now it's easier than we would like. >> logan: general nicholson took command in 2016 shortly after the u.s. cut troop levels to fewer than 10,000. the enemy filled the vacuum. suicide bombers have terrorized kabul ever since, shattering police stations, mosques, and foreign embassies. this truck bomb in may killed 150 people. it was the deadliest attack in the capital since the start of the war. >> ashraf ghani: the level of brutality, the level of heartlessness is unbelievable, and we have to muster all of our resources to be able to deal with this. >> logan: afghan president ashraf ghani rules from the presidential palace that's occupied the city center for more than a century. we noticed the walls around him and the rest of the city have expanded and grown taller since
our last visit three years ago. some of the streets we traveled turned into tight corridors of 20-foot-high concrete barriers. it made it hard to tell where we were. parts of this city now are unrecognizable. what happened here? >> ghani: the war is changing from a war against armies to a war against people. >> logan: more civilians are dying in kabul every year. and your response is more walls. >> ghani: 21 international terrorist groups are operating in this country. dozens of suicide bombers are being sent. there are factories producing suicide bombers. we are under siege. >> logan: by terrorizing the people, the taliban have sown deep doubts about the government. the result: angry protestors in the capital chanting "death to
ashraf ghani." if you can't secure the capital, how are you going to secure the rest of the country? >> ghani: you tell me. can you prevent the attack on new york? can you prevent the attack on london? >> logan: we're not talking about one attack. a series of attacks right here on your doorstep, a bomb that blew out the windows in your palace that has turned this city into something of a concrete prison. >> ghani: what do you want? what's your alternative, ma'am? >> logan: what is the alternative? >> ghani: the alternative is resolve. >> logan: resolve has come at a heavy cost. in just four months last year, more than 4,000 afghan soldiers and police were wounded. another 2,500 killed. since then, ghani has refused to reveal casualty figures. as you will see, it is a sensitive subject. your soldiers and your policemen are dying in unprecedented numbers. >> ghani: indeed. >> logan: how long can that be sustained?
>> ghani: until we secure afghanistan. >> logan: how long is that? how long until you secure it? >> ghani: as long as it takes. generations if need be! >> logan: the u.s. isn't going to be here for generations. >> ghani: we will be here for generations. we do not need others to fight our fights. >> logan: people in this country say that if the u.s. pulled out, your government would collapse in three days. >> ghani: from the resource perspective, they are absolutely right. we will not be able to support our army for six months without u.s. support, and u.s. capabilities. >> logan: did you just say that without the u.s. support, your army couldn't last six months? >> ghani: yes. because we don't have the money. >> logan: american taxpayers bankroll 90% of afghanistan's defense budget. that's more than $4 billion a year. another $30 billion has been spent rebuilding this country. a bustling city has risen from the ruins. but in all the years we have been coming here, it's never
been this dangerous. checkpoints choke the traffic all over kabul. it was as difficult to film as it was to move. terrorists can strike at any time. nobody knows that better than the men of this elite counter terrorism unit. they rush to the scene of every attack- such as this one at a kabul mosque- where a suicide bomber blew himself up just steps away. they took us beyond the barbed wire to the main military hospital, the site of a chilling attack last march by the islamic state, one of the many terror groups with a foothold in kabul. the terrorists, they wore the white coats, like a doctor, right? we were told by commanders who were here that five terrorists disguised as doctors got past the hospital's heavy security. they were armed with assault rifles and a weapon that allowed
them to quietly move from room to room. >> ahmed: they had knives. they killed a lot of people with that knife. >> logan: so they were stabbing people in their beds? stabbing patients? >> ahmed: stabbing patient in their beds. yeah. and opening their stomachs. >> logan: this former lieutenant led the assault force that stormed the building. we agreed to conceal his identity to protect him from reprisals. >> ahmed: they are very clever. and they can do anything inside. they get into the buildings and they start shooting around and show the weakness of the government. >> logan: reinforcements landed on the roof. on the ledges below, you can see hospital workers hiding. when cornered, the terrorists detonated grenades strapped to their chests. they murdered more than 50 people that day. afghans normally bury their dead in a simple cloth shroud.
that's not possible when bodies are obliterated by suicide bombers. it happens so often now, kabul's carpenters have turned to something new-- making coffins. there's also greater demand for prosthetic limbs. this orthopedic clinic is run by the international committee of the red cross. you said the security situation is not getting any better. >> dr. alberto cairo: definitely not. i don't see any improvement. >> logan: dr. alberto cairo has worked at the clinic for 27 years. he told us he's treating more and more victims of terror attacks. >> logan: so, you know, many people far away from here think this war is over. >> cairo: what? the war is over? please. how can they think of anything like this? no. the war is going on. people are very desperate. people are, they have lost hope.
>> logan: why do you say people have lost hope? >> cairo: if you consider that the lifespan of the people in afghanistan is around 60 years, it means that at least two- thirds of them have seen only war. war, war, war. >> logan: with america's new strategy, more troops are in, time limits are out, and pakistan is under pressure for being a safe haven for terrorists. general john nicholson believes this will end the war, something we've heard from previous commanders. do you have everything you need? >> nicholson: yeah, with the new policy, i do. >> logan: this is it, right? i mean, there's no more? this is the end game? >> nicholson: yes, this is the end game. this is a policy that can deliver a win. >> logan: nicholson is targeting taliban leaders. this car carried one of their high-ranking commanders. and striking their largest source of revenue, the drug labs that turn afghanistan's most common crop, opium, into heroin. the goal is to do what his
predecessors have repeatedly tried and failed: force the taliban to cut a deal. in 16 years, not a single taliban fighter has renounced al qaeda or embraced, publicly embraced the afghan constitution. not a single one. >> nicholson: in private, they do. >> logan: they don't do it publicly. >> nicholson: but they do it in private. >> logan: it says it all that they won't do it publicly. >> nicholson: i agree with you. >> logan: right. so, why all these years people have been trying to bring the taliban to the negotiating table, they've never come? >> nicholson: i believe it's because they thought they could win. because they believed we had lost our will to win. because since 2009 when we announced the surge, we also announced our exit date. and, so, why, if your enemy has announced when he's leaving, then why would you negotiate? >> logan: all of these people assisted osama bin laden and al qaeda, and we're now saying to the american people, "we can't defeat them, so we're going to negotiate and put them in the government." >> nicholson: no, we're killing them in large numbers. they can either lay down their weapons and rejoin society and
be a part of the future of afghanistan, have a better life for their children and themselves, or they can die. >> logan: you know, many americans look at this and they say, "you know, we've been there 16 years. it's enough now. we should just come home." >> nicholson: our country hasn't been attacked in those 16 years. they haven't been attacked from afghanistan. >> logan: a lot of people at home just don't buy that terrorists are coming from afghanistan to attack them at home. they're worrying about the guy going to rent a truck from home depot and drive into a crowd of civilians. >> nicholson: well, this raises the point. we need to defeat the ideology. if we were to lose here or if we were to leave here, the cost would be unacceptable. why? it would embolden jihadists globally, those living in our own countries. it would convince them of the ultimate success of their cause. in my view, the cost of failure here is unacceptable. how are you? very good to see you guys. >> logan: general john nicholson told us he's giving himself two years to deliver major changes.
but it's hard not to be skeptical in a city where the enemy has driven american forces from the roads, into the sky. >> lara logan looks back on 16 years covering the war in afghanistan. >> logan: lara logan for cbs news, kabul >> go to 60minutesovertime.com. sponsored by lyrica. but on the inside, i feel like chronic, widespread pain. fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. i'm glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. for some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. and improves function. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away
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never give up its nuclear weapons and is keeping them aimed at the united states. for years, the north has been boasting about its growing nuclear arsenal in an effort to convince the u.s. it cannot be pushed around. much of that is propaganda, but all good propaganda has an element of truth. to make sure the u.s. got the message, the north koreans handed-- literally handed-- an american scientist one of their most valuable nuclear secrets. and not just any scientist, but a man who used to be in charge of designing american nuclear weapons. >> sig hecker: i was immensely surprised by how much they showed me, and with the openness with which they showed and explained that to me. >> martin: for 11 years, sig hecker had been director of los alamos national laboratory, birthplace of the american atomic bomb. so he was more than a little surprised when in 2004 he was invited on a tour of north korea's nuclear complex. >> hecker: there's no way in the
world they're going to let me in. by the way, i also thought the u.s. government wouldn't let me go, but it turns out i was wrong on both accounts. >> martin: the north koreans took him to a place called yongbyon, where they had been operating a small nuclear reactor. >> hecker: i would call it primitive but functional. and in fact, all of the instrumentation sort of reminded me when i first got to los alamos in 1965, you know, no modern electronics or anything of that nature. this is a reactor that was not very good for producing electricity, but it was very good for making plutonium. >> martin: after showing him the reactor, the north koreans took him to a building where they claimed to be reprocessing spent fuel from the reactor into weapons-grade plutonium. >> hecker: they just showed me the facility and basically said, "look, you have to believe us, we extracted the plutonium." >> martin: did you believe them? >> hecker: the answer was yes, but i didn't let them think that i believed them.
>> martin: so li hong sop, hecker's guide and director of the nuclear complex, offered to show him the plutonium. >> hecker: they bring in, and it's a red metal box about yea big, about this thick. they open the metal box. they take out a white wooden box. white wooden box has a slide-off top. so they slide off the top. i look in there. the director says, "over here, this glass jar. that's our product. that's the plutonium. >> martin: you know plutonium when you see it. >> hecker: plutonium by itself is sort of a silvery color if it's not oxidized. if it rusts, oxidizes a little bit, it sort of turns gray and black. and this stuff was gray and black. >> martin: this is what plutonium looks like, the radioactive element which produced the first nuclear explosion in july, 1945. >> hecker: so i said, i'd like to hold the jar with the metal in it. and they allowed me to hold it. so what do i learn from holding?
well, first of all, plutonium is dense. it ought to be heavy. it was. the other thing, plutonium is radioactive. so it-- glass jar ought to be warm, and it was warm. >> robert carlin: they wanted to show sig that they really did have plutonium. >> martin: robert carlin has spent his entire career studying north korea, first as an intelligence analyst at the c.i.a. and state department, now as a consultant to cbs news. here's a piece of plutonium, which in any government in the world would be one of the most tightly guarded secrets, and they hand it to an american? >> carlin: nobody would believe them otherwise, right? people would say, "oh, they're just posturing. oh, it's propaganda." so how are you going to convince the americans? you get an expert who knows plutonium when he sees it, and you, you hand it to him. you say, "here it is. what do you think?" >> martin: what impact did the information you came back with have on u.s. intelligence
assessments of the north korean nuclear program? >> hecker: it changed from one of "we don't know exactly what they have, if they have enough to make anything," to the fact that they actually could have four to six bombs. >> martin: well, that's a fairly major change. >> hecker: that's a big change. >> martin: u.s. intelligence relied on satellite photos of the yongbyon nuclear complex to monitor how much plutonium was being produced by the reactor. >> david albright: this area is where the small plutonium production reactor is. >> martin: david albright is director of the institute for science and international security and a leading expert on north korea's nuclear weapons program. how do you know when it's operating and when it's just in idle? >> albright: basically, evidence of heat. and-- and what you see in this picture is there's steam rising here. >> martin: but satellite photos could not solve the mystery of whether north korea was also building a second type of bomb made of uranium, using gas centrifuges like these to enrich
the uranium to bomb-grade levels. >> albright: i had many meetings with north korean officials where they vehemently denied they had a gas centrifuge program, denying to the point where they're pounding-- you know, almost pounding their fists on the table, getting very angry. >> martin: in fact, the centrifuge plant was hiding in plain sight, but no one knew it until 2010, when sig hecker was invited back and taken inside that blue-roofed building. >> hecker: on the way in, i had a chief engineer, and he actually, he stopped outside and he said, "dr. hecker, we didn't want to show you this facility, but our superiors made us do it." and so we got up to the second floor, looked down at a hall-- >> martin: and you saw? >> hecker: i was just flabbergasted. i could not believe what i was seeing. essentially, 2,000 centrifuges lined up, looked beautiful,
modern. >> martin: so, why so flabbergasted, though? everybody suspected they were secretly enriching uranium. here they are, secretly enriching uranium. >> hecker: we had no idea they had this many centrifuges, and that modern. and the most amazing thing-- they put a blue roof on this facility, that is so visible from overhead satellite imagery, and nobody knew. >> martin: so, they'd built this modern uranium enrichment plant under the noses of u.s. spy satellites? >> hecker: of all the spy satellites. so, a lot of people say, well, that shows how bad, you know, our intel agencies are. it doesn't. it shows how easy it is to build those centrifuge facilities and hide them. >> martin: hecker visited north korea seven times. each time, the north koreans were inviting into their midst a nuclear scientist who would report everything he saw to u.s. intelligence. >> hecker: in all my visits, i think that's a calculus that they always made. how much do they show me in
order to convince me of something that they'd like me to take away, but not show me so much that it actually makes them more vulnerable because they've given me information that they'd rather not give me? so they took that chance with every visit. >> martin: since hecker's last visit, that blue-roofed building which held 2,000 centrifuges has doubled in size, and it is almost certainly not the only uranium enrichment plant in north korea. >> albright: they went out and decided that "now we're going to buy enough materials, equipment to build, 8,000 centrifuges, 10,000 centrifuges." >> martin: when they go out on the market to buy that much material, does that become evident? >> albright: yes, in a sense it was a smoking gun that, that north korea was trying to scale up its gas centrifuge program. >> martin: u.s. intelligence estimates that by now, north korea could have enough bomb- grade material for as many as 60 weapons, an estimate
considerably higher than albright's, who believes those centrifuges break down a lot. what's your estimate of the number of nuclear weapons that north korea has? >> albright: 13 to 30 nuclear weapons as of the end of 2016. >> martin: 13 to 30? >> albright: yeah. >> martin: to hecker, the precise number is not what's most important. >> hecker: what's even more important than the 30 or 60 is, how small can they make them? >> martin: which is what made 2016's show and tell by kim jong-un such a watershed event. it was, kim said, a nuclear warhead small enough to be mounted on a missile. this is what everybody called the disco ball. >> hecker: right. >> martin: what does it look like to you, though? >> hecker: this, to me, it is one that i would call a spherical fission bomb. in other words, the atomic bomb. >> martin: remember, hecker was once the director of a lab which designs american nuclear weapons, so he knows exactly what to look for in a bomb.
>> hecker: it looks like a simple bomb. however, what i found most important about this is the size of it. it looks to be about 60 centimeters. >> martin: 60 centimeters across means it would fit on some of north korea's missiles. how do you determine the dimensions of something in a photo like that? >> hecker: you try to determine kim jong-un's midsection. ( laughs ) and then you compare. >> martin: so, you measure the bomb against his girth. >> hecker: right. so the other way, of course, you have some general idea as to how tall these guys are. >> martin: hecker has a very good idea how tall the man on the far left is. that's ri hong sop, the scientist who showed hecker the piece of plutonium in 2004. >> hecker: director ri hong sop is very highly respected by kim jong-un. >> martin: this past september, when north korea unveiled a sleeker warhead design, one it said was a much more powerful thermonuclear weapon, there was ri hong sop again, briefing kim
jong-un. it looked very much like nuclear weapons hecker had seen when he was director of los alamos national laboratory. >> hecker: that shape is consistent with what we would call the two-stage thermonuclear weapon. what that essentially means is sort of a modern hydrogen bomb. >> martin: could they put that peanut-shaped device on a missile? >> hecker: they definitely want us to think so. in the background, they actually show the warhead positioned in the nose cone of the missile, which we interpreted to be an i.c.b.m. >> martin: just hours after these photos were released, north korea conducted its sixth and largest nuclear test in a remote underground site. u.s. intelligence estimated the device was many times more powerful than the bomb which destroyed hiroshima. >> hecker: their confidence level, you know, is amazing. i mean, it's amazing. they go and show this thing, and two hours later they detonate this weapon.
>> martin: but there is no way of knowing whether the device they detonated is the same as the one they showed off. do you believe that north korea has that kind of weapon today? >> albright: i don't think they have it today. there's just a lot of engineering challenges, and when you look at other countries like north korea, it's taken them quite a long time to master these things. >> martin: this is their moon shot. >> albright: yeah, very much so. >> martin: if you believe north korean propaganda, kim jong-un is ecstatic with the progress his nuclear scientists have made. here he is holding hands with hecker's old tour guide, ri hong sop, in full military uniform, now promoted to director of the nuclear weapons program. >> carlin: there's nothing that appears, that they don't want us to see. very calculated. >> martin: robert carlin's four decades of studying north korea has taught him not to believe everything he sees, but it has
also taught him that americans who look down on north korea as a backward nation are making a big mistake. >> carlin: i think they understand us better than we understand them. we're still weighed down with a lot of stereotypes, and they're going to trip us up. >> martin: trip us up how? >> carlin: we think if we apply enough pressure, we'll cause them to buckle. and my impression over the years is, this is not a country that's going to buckle. >> hecker: they're going to get there, you know, that's, that's one thing you can count on. we've tried to sanction them into submission. they've not submitted. they just keep testing and keep evolving. look! unlike regular cough drops it contains 2 max strength pain relievers and cools in seconds.
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>> pelley: now, jon wertheim, executive editor of "sports illustrated," on assignment for "60 minutes." >> wertheim: consult any of those lists of the world's most livable cities and, inevitably, portland, oregon, figures prominently. the place is bathed in natural beauty. but it also draws high marks for its civic personality, a laid-back, tolerant disposition sprinkled with more than a modest dose of eccentric. "keep portland weird" is the city's unofficial slogan. yet last may, portland also witnessed one of the most horrific recent hate crimes. two men were killed aboard a light rail train after coming to the defense of two black women threatened by a white supremacist. this tragedy shocked portland to the core. it also fed suspicion that this is a city in transition, and made this angry time in political and cultural life real. what is the sound of a community in conversation with itself? we went to the upper left corner
of the country to listen. portland, oregon sits in one of the most beautiful spots in america. 90 miles to the east: majestic, snowcapped mount hood. 90 miles to the west: the rocky pacific coast. for portland's 650,000 residents, their scenic locale is paired with a liberal spirit: all cycling and recycling. this sensibility provides the premise for an entire tv show. "portlandia" skewers-- organically, of course- the city's progressiveness and preciousness. >> the tattoo ink never runs dry. >> wertheim: the city's mayor, ted wheeler, counts himself as a fan, if at times a reluctant one: >> ted wheeler: there's one episode where there's a four-way stop, and everybody's waiting for everybody else to go. >> fred armison: go ahead. >> carrie brownstein: no, no, no, go ahead. >> armison: go ahead. >> brownstein: no, you go. >> armison: no, no, no, you first! >> brownstein: no, you go, you go. >> armison: no, way, go ahead. >> wheeler: that is so portland.
>> wertheim: people in portland they either love it, or they hate it. and the people who love it, love it because it's funny because it's true. and the people who hate it, hate it because it's true. >> brownstein: you go. >> armison: you sure? okay. >> brownstein: we would be failing if it wasn't hitting close to home, because we are digging deep into our own lives. >> wertheim: "portlandia" is the brainchild of carrie brownstein and fred armison, both part-time portland residents. some of this, you're poking fun at yourself, i assume. >> brownstein: always-- >> armison: some-- all-mostly. remember when people were content to be unambitious, many had no occupations whatsoever, maybe working a couple of hours a week at a coffee shop? >> brownstein: i thought that died out a long time ago. >> armison: not in portland. portland is a city where young people go to retire. >> wertheim: colin meloy, founder of the rock band the decemberists, was one of the many "starving artists" who "retired" to cheap, hip portland in the 1990s.
>> colin meloy: the real ideal was to-- to work as little as possible to afford, you know, your basic living costs, and then have as much time leftover to write or to play shows-- >> wertheim: go be creative. >> meloy: yeah. >> wertheim: meloy moved here from montana, and lived in a converted warehouse. >> meloy: and i think i was probably paying, like, $180. something like that. >> wertheim: you were-- paying $180 a month of rent? >> meloy: yeah >> wertheim: whether they love "portlandia" or hate it, people in portland report real-life moments when they feel like they're in an episode. >> jeff goldblum: i'm going to help you with all things doily. >> wertheim: take, for example, the super-specialty shops the show lampoons. >> armison: how does this work? do we just buy a box of doilies? >> goldblum: no, we tailor the doilies here to your needs. >> wertheim: we found a lovely real-life shop with 120-plus different kinds of salt. >> kaitlin hansen: it's a oaxacan-- mexican sea salt that is infused with chipotle pepper and a pasilla pepper.
and then, it has ground-up agave tequila worms in it-- >> wertheim: ground-up agave tequila worms in your salt? >> hansen: you know the little teq-- uh-huh, yeah. >> wertheim: oh, yeah. >> brownstein: is that u.s.d.a. organic, or oregon organic, or portland organic? >> waitress: it's just all across the board, organic. >> wertheim: "portlandia" makes fun of the city's self-conscious food culture-- >> waitress: here is the chicken you will be enjoying tonight, his name was collin. here are his papers, okay? >> wertheim: --while in real portland, even the food carts have a gourmet feel. >> vendor: altengartz veggie bratwurst, with caramelized onions. >> wertheim: this is my maiden veggie bratwurst. >> vendor: all right, enjoy. >> wertheim: who says you can't make a good sausage out of chickpeas? pretty good. that's the thing: all the food carts and bike lanes and live music and microbreweries are easily mocked, but they make for a pretty good life, too. on "portlandia," the only thing that even comes close to conflict: an insurrection by baristas in the city's many coffee shops. >> brownstein: we hereby begin a manifesto against customers and management. >> wertheim: and it's here, unmistakably, where parody and
reality diverge. >> brownstein: rule number one. no chatter at counter. >> wertheim: in real-life portland, at least lately, they're arguing over a lot more than coffee. more than four times as many people here voted for hillary clinton as for donald trump. >> not my president! >> wertheim: and after his election, some of the country's largest street demonstrations arose in portland. >> steve duin: i think people are alarmed on a daily basis by what's happening, and they feel in a relatively safe place in portland and in oregon to mount their defense. >> wertheim: steve duin is a longtime columnist for the local newspaper, "the oregonian." what is it like for portland these days when the progressivism of this city is not necessarily reflected on a national level? >> duin: unbelievably gratifying. >> wertheim: it is? >> duin: i mean, yes. this city, if it's having a moment, maybe it's a moment of clarity. maybe it's a moment of gratitude, thankfulness that
most people in this city do not subscribe to the unbelievable notions of civility and generosity coming out of the nation's capital right now. ( screaming and shouting ) >> wertheim: but the streets of portland have been notably un-civil since donald trump's election. precisely because it's a liberal enclave, right-wing nationalists have targeted the city with rallies and marches. they've been met by far-left antifa protestors- they're the ones wearing the masks-- with people on each side trying to bait the other into violence. >> wheeler: the ability to disagree amicably is an art much in jeopardy. >> wertheim: in 2016, when ted wheeler ran for mayor, portland was placid. he's now presiding over a suddenly pugnacious city. >> wheeler: excuse me! excuse me! >> nick fish: there were things said about the mayor's mother that should never be said in any public forum. >> wheeler: where i think we've gotten a little sideways as a
culture, is people take it very personally if you have a different perspective, or a different point of view. i would just say we need to lighten up. >> wertheim: you say lighten up, but across the street from where we are, we-- we've had protests, and counter-protests, and riot gear. what's going on in portland? >> wheeler: absolutely, sure. well, portland has a long history of protest, and counter- protest. and we are a progressive community. and as a result, there are some very far-right organizations that like to come here, and they like to protest. >> wertheim: wheeler calls the targeting of portland by white nationalists an attempt to "poke the bear." this is what the bear looks like here. first things first. what's-- >> david: sure. >> wertheim: --what's with the face masks? >> david: well, being anti- fascist activists is not always safe. >> wertheim: four members of portland's rose city antifa, their matching hoodies proclaiming "fighting fascism
since 2007," agreed to meet us only in an anonymous hotel room. they say their mission is to organize self-defense against white supremacists and fascist groups. is there any interest in-- in dialogue? is there any interest in conversation? >> david: you know, with-- with white supremacists who are threatening the lives of people that we care about, there-- there is no such thing as dialogue. >> wertheim: if only they'd waited an hour, they could have encountered their arch-enemy, a guy named joey gibson. he has organized and led recent right-wing demonstrations in portland. just after antifa left, he came to the very same hotel room, with the very same "it's not safe to be seen in public" ground rules. >> joey gibson: i've been attacked from all over the place. there's a lot of people, they don't like my message. >> wertheim: the message on his hoodie reads "patriot prayer," but he pleads guilty to mayor wheeler's charge of coming to portland to provoke, to "poke the antifa bear." >> gibson: it's also been about bringing antifa out on the streets, too, to help people see what they're willing to do. >> wertheim: they feel threatened at your events.
they don't feel safe there. >> gibson: then don't come. >> wertheim: you-- you just said you wanted them to come. >> gibson: no, i'm saying, of course we want them to come because we want to expose them for who they are. >> wertheim: as for who he is, gibson insists he's no fascist or white supremacist. however-- >> gibson: we had a white nationalist show up at one of the-- the freedom marches. i mean, yeah, that's absolutely true. >> wertheim: the white nationalist gibson is talking about was jeremy christian, who in may, police say, stabbed two men to death on a light rail train after they came to the defense of two african american women christian was harassing. one of the women was wearing a hijab. the crime made international news, in part because it ran so counter to portland's peace and love image. >> jeremy christian: you call it terrorism, i call it patriotism! you hear me? >> wertheim: it's likely true that the alleged crime had as much to do with mental illness as racial animus. but it's also true that portland's progressive present is very much at odds with its prejudiced past. >> wheeler: portland is one of the least-diverse cities of its size in the united states, and i
don't think we can really move into the future, unless we confront some of the darker things about our past. and the reality is, we have a racist past. >> wertheim: that includes a state constitution adopted in 1857 that actually banned black people from moving to oregon, and a once-robust k.k.k. presence. >> wheeler: and so we have a lot of making up to do. and there's a lot of old history, and hard feelings that are still very much just under the surface. >> wertheim: wheeler has taken at least one concrete step to address those hard feelings; hiring an african american woman as police chief. but the inequality runs deep. the average family income for whites in portland is more than double that of african americans. >> demonstrator: we are black every single day, all day. so we will fight for our rights every single day. >> meloy: i think that there are cracks in that sort of facade of-- of cute and precious portland. and there-- there is a lot of people sort of frustrated and angry in the city, as there are in any city.
>> director: roll sound, please. >> wertheim: it's fitting that "portlandia" is now in its final season, because it satirizes a city that no longer exists. starving artists may still want to come here, but with the average rent for a studio apartment at $1,200 bucks a month, where will they live? too often, the answer is the streets. portland's homeless population is up 10% in just the last two years. >> wheeler: and we're struggling with a lot of the same issues that other big cities are struggling with. the human catastrophe of homelessness. we're struggling with housing affordability. we have all the same problems other communities do, too. >> meloy: i think if we're at a crossroads, it's, like, "okay, now, we're done being the cute city that everybody wants to sort of laugh about but love. what are we going to do now?" >> wertheim: what is portland going to do now? >> mayor: i am outraged. look at this. port-langeles! does that make you happy? it doesn't make me happy! >> wertheim: on "portlandia," the mayor, played by actor kyle maclachlan, has his answer:
>> mayor: i've decided that we need to secede and form our own weird and yet independent nation. ( cheers and applause ) >> wertheim: in some ways, that's what real-life portland has done, doubling down without apology on the weird and independent. its annual adult soap box derby and naked bike race? they'll go on as scheduled, thanks. and columnist steve duin would like to see the city go even further, and become a refuge for those who'd like to flee the angry politics of 21st century america. sounds like you're describing an oregon trail that's being populated, not with-- not with pioneers, but with progressives headed to this part of the world. >> duin: well, i don't know if people have figured that out yet. i-- i don't know if they quite recognize the refuge that is available here, the natural beauty that is available here, the progressive politics and openness and empathy that is available here by and large. but, if they're looking for it, you know, westward ho.
>> this cbs sports update is brought the you by the lincoln motor company. i'med a saddam zuker in new york with a look at the a.f.c. playoff picture. last night tom brady tossed three touchdowns as new england crushed tennessee 35-14. earlier today on cbs, jacksonville pulled the upset in pittsburgh 45-42. that sets up the a.f.c. championship game next sunday on cbs as jacksonville will try to knock off the defending super bowl champs in new england. for more sports news and information gosh, to cbssports.com. with 33 individual vertebrae and 640 muscles in the human body, no two of us are alike. life made more effortless through adaptability.
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>> pelley: 50 seasons of "60 minutes." from 39 years ago, tonight, morley safer interviewing the legendary katharine hepburn. >> safer: do you feel like a legend? do you feel-- >> katharine hepburn: no, i don't think anyone feels- >> safer: --like the katharine hepburn? >> hepburn: no. i don't think anyone feels like anything, really. you know, i always fo-- felt they were out to get me-- >> safer: "they" being-- >> hepburn: --and that i'd better be good. and i still think i'd better be good, you know. i struggle to do my best. >> safer: i understand that, but-- >> hepburn: i've struggled for days to do my best for this, do you know what i mean? and i don't think you ever feel like anything. you feel like a bore. ( laughs ) you know, don't you? or do you feel fascinating? >> safer: no-- no, i-- i-- no, i feel like a bore a good-- most of the time. >> hepburn: like a bore. like a bore. >> safer: yeah. >> hepburn: then you think, "my god, they're going to find out what a bore i am, and then
that'll be a terrible thing." >> pelley: i'm scott pelley. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." as you can clearly see, the updates you made to your plan strengthened your retirement score. so, that goal you've been saving for, you can do it. we can do this? we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward so you can plan for retirement
previously on wisdom of the crowd... tanner: do you know any of these people? no, which means that... he could be one of them. durand: he's actually the one who took the photograph. she said she knew him through you. you should've just kept your mouth shut about that girl. (grunts) the last time we saw each other,