tv BBC World News Outside Source PBS March 29, 2022 5:00pm-5:31pm PDT
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viewers like you. thank you. announcer: and now, "bbc world news". ros: i am welcs adkins. welcome to "outside source." officials say a suspected gunman has killed four people in a suburb of tel aviv before being fatally shot himself. peace talks in turkey, russia says it will reduce combat operations around kyiv and the city of chernihiv. america says it will be jged by its actions. >> there is what russia says, and there is what russia does. we are focused on the latter. what russia is doing as they continue to brutalize ukraine. ros: 20 police fines are breaking lockdown rules in downing street and other events.
boris johnson has not received one. police say there could be more. the queen has attended a memorial service for prince philip accompanied into westminster abbey by prince andrew. let's get more on the developing story in tel aviv. four people have been kill and several others injured in a shooting attack. the gunman is reported to have been shot dead. these attacks happened in suburbs of tel aviv, israel's biggest city. it sits on the coast. the suburb that is being focused on his east of tel aviv, it is an ultra orthodox area. the shooter targeted people in three separate places. he was shot by officers who were nearby. we heard a report of a separate attack in a neighboring town. there has been no further information on tha
they are treating a number of victims at the scenes. , in the past week there have been two fatal attacks carried out by people who have said they have links to islamic date. israel's government ordered a waiver of arrests. let's try to find out more about this. our middle east correspondent is with us. i know you spent the last few minutes trying to get the latest information. what more can you tell us? >> the picture is still confused. but i can say at this stage, this is the most ddly attack of its kind in israel in years. it is only a week since i last set that. we had a medic in the ultra-orthodox jewish neighborhood, which is to the east of tel aviv, describing finding victims spread out in intervals, some of them had been on foot, one of them had been in a car. there was some reports from witnesses in the neighborhood saying they had earlier heard gunshots being fired towards
apartment balconies. there is video footage that appears to show the man dressed in black walking with a rifle on the street. what israeli med are saying, quoting security officials, is that this attacker who was shot dead was from the northern occupied west bank affiliated with a palestinian militant group. that is different from the attacks we have seen, the other ones in the past week, which have been associated with israeli arab citizens who were linked in some ways to so-called islamic state group. ros: we are seeing some of the pictures that have come in. tell us about the neighborhood that has been targeted, please. >> the neighborhood is a crowded neighborhood. it is an ultra jewish neighborhood -- ultra-orthodox jewish neighborhood. a place where most people are religious. it seems the attacker when there, knowing that that -- it is the appearance of pace, you will see the people dressed in
black and white wearing hats, walking along the streets. at the tim of the day this happened, early evening, lots of people would have been out and about. now the pictures we are getting from there are quite chaotic. you can see lots and lots of emergency vehicles rushed to the scene. ambulances, police cars, that sort of added to the confusion of what is -- what has been going on. ros: finally, you alluded to the fact that a few days ago, you were saying the most serious attack for some time had happened. you are now saying it again. is it too soon to put those events together and say perhaps there is a more concerted escalation in att in israel, or is it too soon to conclude that? >> this is the most serious wave of attacks there has been certainly ineveral years. this does seem to be distinct from those other attacks,
because of the different motivations perhaps of the attacker. i have to say that the ms militant group in gaza has praised all of the attacks that has taken place. there is concern about what could happen in the coming weeks. we are heading into a time where it is the islamic holy month of ramadan, and passover across the christian holiday of easter. this puts a lot of pressure on the contentious holy sites in the old city in jerusalem, and adds to the tensions. there have been a lot of efforts, diplomatically, going on behind the scenes to make sure we don't have a recurrence of the violence we saw last year in may during ramadan. ros: thank you very much. come back to us if you get any further information. our correspondenlived from israel. let's talk about the war in ukrae. there appears to have been at least some progress in the latest round of talks to try to secure a cease-fire between russia and ukraine. russia is saying it plans to reduce combat operaons near
kyiv. this is the russian deputy defense minister. >> the ministry of defense of the russian federation has taken the decision to drastically reduce combat operations in the kyiv and chernihiv areas in order to boost mutual trust and create the conditions for further negotiations and signing of the agreement. ros: while moscow's lead negotiator was quick to add a caveat, saying this is not a cease-fire, but this is our aspiration to reach a de-escalation of the conflict, at least on these fronts. no these talks are taking place in turkey. this is the first time that they have met face-to-face in over a fortnight. here are the pictures we have of the meeting. we know ukraine repeated its offer to adopt mutual status. >> we will not join a new military and political union. milita training in our
territory will take place if the other country agrees. ros: let's look at what mutual status would entail for ukraine. as we heard there, the main element would be not being able to join any military alliances, including nato. as you can see from this graphic, russia shares a small border with nato member countries, but it has been opposed to ukraine being a member of nato, which would expand its border with nato. ukraine would not be allowed to host military bases or join conflicts elsewhere. there is something else as well. the ukrainian president has said if it were to adopt mutual status, that idea would have to be put to a referendum before it happened. here is one assessment of that particularlan. >> the offer of neutralization is attractive to the russians, since that was part of their demand as we got into this war. they cannot bank it if it depends upon ukrainian referendums. we are still quite a long way in
terms of sorting out that detail from any decisive progress. ros: in the last few minutes, president biden has been speaking about these tal and this is what he said. pres. biden: we will see. i don't read anything into it until i see what their actions are. we will see if they follow through with what they are suggesting. there are negotiations that have begun today, not begun, continued today. i had a meeting with the heads of state of four allies and nato. france, germany, the united states, and great britain. there seems to be consensus that, let's just see what they have to offer. ros: our correspondent in moscow, jenny hill. >> my sense here is that, as have heard from the leader of delegation, he said again, the positions are not particularly close. i'm starting to wonder whether actually the kremlin is holding back on any kind of sense of
optimism. one of the reasons i say that is that we heard earlier from a spokeswoman of the foreign ministry after it had been announced that russia was going to pull back a little bit on its military activities around kyiv and chernihiv. she was coming out with the same narrative we have heard all along that the aim for the kremlin is to de-nazify ukraine. it is important to remember the kremlin's aims in ukraine have not changed. they don't want ukraine to join nato. we have seen there might be some agreement on that from the government in kyiv. they want those territories in eastern ukraine recognized as independent, or you could read th coming under russian control. thant crimea recognized as russian. and then there are vladimir putin's broader aims. he has consistently cast ukraine
as a country as the enemies of russia. i think we have to bear that in mind. when we look at what has happened today. ros: we have also heard that while ukraine joining nato is a redline for russia, potentially it joining the european union, that is not. we know joining the eu has been a goal for ukraine's later since he took over. president zelenskyy said ukrainians onto to live in european ukraine. to understand why russia sees nato and e.u. membership quite differently, i have been speaking to our diplomatic correspondent, paul adams. >> when you put nato and the eu side-by-side, you look at two different institutions. one is a political and economic body. the other is a military alliance with certain provisions that would allow for and require a military response in the event of an attack on a member, in the case of nato. but does not exist in terms of the eu. yes, the eu has foreign and
defense and vision -- ambitions. but it is not a military alliance in that sense. from moscow's point of view, it does not pose that fundamental threat. ros: so, if the idea of neutrality is not completely unceptable to president zelenskyy, he has given the impression he is open to that idea, why was that signal not sent to russia many months ago or perhaps it was? paul: who knows? maybe we will learn a lot when this is all over about what signals were and were not transmitted. what we have learned is that russia was working under a set of ideas or prejudices about ukraine were simply -- did not reflect ukraine's contemporary reality. i think the sense we get is somehow, vladimir putin thought by exerting a sufficient military might against ukraine, he could bend zelenskyy in the entire government to his will.
and that is clear -- that has clearly proven to be fundamentally a flawed perception. he thought perhaps he could do to ukraine what he did into any 14 -- in 2014 in force ukraine to submit. that has not been the case. ukrain a different place from what it was back in 2014. there is a sense of commitment, national identity, a desire to join nato, which is at an all-time high. largely as a result of eight years war. we are looking at a fundamental misjudgment, a military misjudgment and a political misjudgment, with moscow now rather scrambling both militarily and politically to make the best of what is basically a bad job. ros: if we continue to focus on these talks between ukraine and russia, one of those present was the russian billionaire. yesterday, we were reporting that he said he had symptoms of
poisoning after a previous meeting about the conflict this month. he appeared in good health on this occasion. this is what the kremlin had to say about the allegations and claims connected to that meeting a few weeks back in kyiv. >> these poisoning reports are part of an information war, and we should see it in this way. we should carefully filter all of the information that is disseminated. ros: this is what we know about the alleged poisoning. last month, he was involved in talks about securing humanitarian corridors to allow ukrainians to leave. this ukrainian lawmaker reportedly also fell ill after the meeting. in the -- and the investigative side to said the symptoms are the result of intentional poisoning with an unidentified chemical weapon. we should note, the u.s. had downplayed the incident, saying the symptoms were caused by environmental factors. this is the assessment of one form u.k. intelligence officer. >> it is difficult to tell.
there is not enough information. some reports have come from those that are close to him. putin is close to him. some have come from unknown american sources. there is not enough information to make a call one way or the other. you have to look at who would benefit from trying to poison the billionaire who was acting as a go-between between zelenskyy and putin. it is difficult to work out what the real reason would be behind it. ros: for its part, ukraine's foreign minister has advised the delegation in istanbul, don't eat or drink anying, and avoid touching surfaces. we heard about conditions on the battlefield in ukraine. the u.k. ministry of defense says russian forces are maintaining blocking positions, while attempting to reorganize and reset their forces. the ukrainian ambassador to the u.k. has been speaking to the bbc and had this message for moscow. >> we wanted to help the
humanitarian corridors to be open, to be able to evacuate civilians and to bring food and supplies to the besieged cds -- cities. russians understand and use it to their advantage, to bend our will, to bend our delegation's will. to show that -- show the week points. we also have to discuss with them how we will get out of our sovereign territory and how our future system of architecture, our security will be built. ros: fundamental disk conflict is the donbass region of ukraine, specifically two areas within it. they are in the east of ukraine, as you can see here. just before russia invaded, it recognized both of them as independent states. in recent days, we have been told russia is planning to focus its attention's there. here is the defense minister speaking earlier. >> the first stage of the
operation has been completed. the combat potential of the ukrainian armed forces has been reduced, and we can focus efforts on achieving the main goal, deliberation of don -- e liberation of donbass. ros: jeremy bowen is in kyiv. here he is with his analysis with those talks between russia and ukraine. >> a lot more came out of the talks than was expected in terms of positive vibes, discussions about a possible meeting between the two presidents, zelenskyy and putin. a lot better atmosphere than they had when they met a couple of weeks earlier. that is a plus. but there is an awfully long way to go before they can even be an effective cease-fire, let alone any kind of peace agreement. this is really early days. but it does show a diplomatic process has commenced and they are finding things to talk about.
ros: part of that process, part of the statemewe are hearing, concerns the capital, kyiv, where you are at the moment and whether the russians will be prioritizing it. have you noticed, can you tell a difference in how russia is operating around the capital? jeremy: in the last couple of minutes as i have been waiting to talk to you, i have heard distant rumbles coming from the battlefields to the northwest of the city. i don't know who is firing, and i don't know what is going on at the moment, but something is going on. certainly, as of now, there is military activity out there. i think what has happened is the russians have got as far as they can get without a massive infusion of men and equipment to this particular battlefield, which they may not even have. they have tried to get into the city. they failed very decisively. in the last few weeks, they have got nowhere close to it. the ukrainians are saying consistently, that they are
pushing them back at a cost. i was at a military funeral today of someone who was killed trying to push the russians back. it is not without costs, severe costs for the ukrainians. what is clear is that what the russians are going to do is what they have said the last couple of days, which is concentrate on what is happening in the east. ros: speaking of the east, and i appreciate you -- more broadly in your conversations, are ukrainians open to the idea that part of their country to the east may be lost then exchanged for peace, in exchange for not seeing more of their loved ones di jeremy: well, the official position of the government and all ukrainians who you speak to, and who i have spoken to is look, we cannot possibly give away any of this territory. but the reality has been since 2014, those territories in the
east and crimea have been very much controlled by russia. that is something that perhaps people have gotten used to. . what they cannot agree to is that any of the territory that has been taken in the last 4, 5 weeks since the invasion, but that stays with the russians. ros: that was jeremy in kyiv talking about the conflict. let's go to washington and lives -- listen to john kirby talking about the conflict. he is giving a briefing. he said that russia is repositioning forces, not withdrawing them. let's listen to what else he has to say. john: that pressure was apeciated and welcomed. and has been alleviated in concert with schedules with fema and civilian practitioners, we all deemed collectively that now is the right time to pull back that support. i want to state again as i said in my opening statement,
northern command stands ready in case there is more need. we can flex. we did not even deploy all the troops we had put on readiness do this mission. we can flex up again if needed. this pandemic, as you well know, is a living thing. and it changes over time. we are grateful for the ability, the chance that we had to contribute to this and we will stay ready. again, at the risk of sounding redundant, i want to also point out the fact that y still have more than 10,000 national guardsmen that are still at it. they are still at it in the states. >> i would like to go back to repositioning. have you seen any territorial losses or newly contested areas around kyiv for russia since it repositioned its forces? have you seen any change in the amount or type of missile strikes russia has launched in the last few days that you feel would be tied to this repositioning? or focused toward donbass?
mr. kirby: we have seen the ukrainians pushback around kyiv, particularly in suburbs to the west of kyiv, where the ukrainians have retaken ground. i don't have a list of the towns. but we have seen them retake some territories to the west of kyiv. and as you saw, we talked about this about a week ago, to the east of kyiv, where the russians were on the outskirts of bro very. and though ukrainians pushed them back to almost more than 50 kilometers away from the city. so we have seen them do that around kyiv. ros: this is john kirby giving a briefing at the pentagon. as you can see from the sign behind him, the americans emphasizing they believe russia is withdrawing away from kyiv. more resetting how the tops are organized. we will keep listening to that. in the meantime, let's turn to an important story in the u.k. the metropolitan police has
announced 20 fines will be issued as part of its inquiry into the downing street parties that broke covid rules. they will not be saying who has been fined or which events these fines connect to. number 10 has been saying the prime minister has so far not been told he is among those who have been fined. we have the story in detail. at the start of december, orest johnson responded to the first report of parties in number 10 that broke covid rules. >> all guidance was followed completely during number 10. ros: more details soon emerged. six days later, the prime minister responded again. >> all i can tell you is that all the guidelines were observed. ros: the guidelines were not observed at some events. we know that because the metropolitan police has confirmed 20 notices are to be issued for breaches of covid-19 regulations. these breaches were in whitehall and downing street. they come with a fine for breaking the law, which means this. >> whatever happens next, one fact has been established today.
the police think covid laws were broken in se of the very buildings where they were being said. ros: we don't know who has been fined. number 10 says it has not been told boris johnson is among them. the mettsays due to the significant amount of material that remains to be assessed, further referrals may be made. those refer may connect to any of the 12 events police are investigating. while the met continues its work, we wait on sue gray. she is the senior civil servant who is investigating the same gatherings, plus another four. her initial findings already note failures of leadership and judgment by the different parts of number 10 and the cabinet office. her full report may bring more detail. >> there is likely to be named certain individuals. ros: while we wait on that report, it is boris johnson's mps who control his fate. some call for him to go in january. if you has withdrawn -a few have withdrawn that demand.
most mps have stood by him. >> prime minister has taken steps to rebuild comfort -- confidence. he has changed several members of his senior team to boost that operation around him. and i think he has shown strong leadership on the world stage when it comes to ukraine and russia. ros: boris johnson's supporters are rallying around. the opposition wants him to resign. >> prime minister has completely lied about the situation. the police have issued fines. . lockdown rules have been breached and the prime minister has to go. ros: boris johnson has not been fined. . we don't know whether he attended events which have led to fines, or if he was aware of rule breaking at the time. in january, he did apologize to the public. >> i know the rage they feel with me and with the government i lead, when they think that in downing street itself, the rules are not being properly followed by the people who make the rules. ros: as for the statements from the prime minister, number 10
continues to insist that at all times, he sent out his understanding of events. that we now know at sometim, that understanding was inaccurate. number 10 was less categorical on another question. here is the pern who broke the story, tweeting the prime minister spokesperson refuses to say that the law has been broken. whether numr 10 excepts this or not, police say that is what happened. as we consider that, consider too these comments this mont from cabinet minister jacob rees-mogg. he suggested in the context of the war of ukraine, the party's story was the disproportionate fluff of politics. that is disputed. what i clear is the reason this story had impact, is because of what boris johnson told the country as the virus surged. >> our plan does rely on all of us continuing to make sacrifices to protect those we love. please, please, continue to follow the rules. ros: the police say the rules were not followed in downing
street, at a time when a thing that was presented as a matter of life and death. that has led to these fines. we don't know if narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... man: bdo. accountants and advisors. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. and by contributions to this pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪ narrator: you're watching pbs. ♪ da-da-da-duh-da-da-da♪ ♪ da-da-da-da-da-da ♪♪
♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... woman: the rules of business are beingeinvented with a more flexible workforce. by embracing innovation, by lookingot only at current opportunities, but ahead to future ones. man: people who know, know bdo. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. and by contributions to this pbs station from