tv Fox News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX December 8, 2019 6:00am-7:00am PST
>> chris: on chris wallace. a saudi air force offer the mic officer targets americans at a military base killing three members of the u.s. navy. we will discuss that and the challenges to u.s. national security in an exclusive interview with the secretary of defense. ♪ this hour we will drill down on the threat from tehran. speak of the iranians have continued to shift missiles on the area to iraq, to yemen. >> what would more trips to? >> chris: and president trump's promise to pull u.s. troops out of endless wars. >> we seem to be pulling back on fighting terrorism or ronald reagan was leaning forward. >> chris: we are joined by defense secretary mark esper here at the reagan national defense forum, only on
"fox news sunday" ." then. >> today i am asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> chris: house speaker nancy pelosi formally directing democrats to move forward with impeachment, saying the president's actions leave no choice. we will talk with democratic congressman david cicilline, a key member of the house judiciary committee, which will hear evidence monday from house investigators. plus, the justice department's inspector general releases his highly anticipated review of the 2016 russia probe. >> i hear it's devastating, but we will soon find out. >> chris: we will ask our sunday panel with the ig report will mean for the president's claims it was all the witch hunts. and our "power player of the week" is obsessed with spies and the gadgets they use to steal secrets. all right now on "fox news sunday" ." ♪
>> chris: you are looking live at the ronald reagan presidential library and air force one, that carried our 40th president around the globe in pursuit of peace. welcome to a special hour of "fox news sunday" from the reagan national defense form, a gathering of key figures in national security. more on that in a moment, but first the latest on two developing stories. the release of an american citizen as part of a prisoner swap with iran, and the deadly attack by a saudi military officer targeting americans at t the u.s. naval base in florida. national security correspondent jennifer griffin joins us now with the latest on both, jennifer. thank you, chris. it u.s. officials not yet willing to call this terrorism. overnight the navy released the victims names, all american. joshua watson, mohamed hatem, and scott walters, a recent navy academy graduate reported to
flight school two weeks ago. he saved many lives by telling first responders where the shooting took place after being shot several times. the shooter as saudi royal air force officer, 1 of 852 saturdays being trained in the u.s. right now. used a handgun with an extended magazine to target americans in the pensacola naval air station classroom. the fbi is aware of anti-american tweets posted on twitter under the shooter's name. at least six outings were detained near the attack site, one is said to have been videotaping. not all the news involving the middle east was bad this weekend. princeton grad student held captive by iran for over three years were leased in a prisoner exchange for an iranian scientist. >> i think it was a great thing for iran. i think was great to show them we can do something that might've been a precursor as to what can be done. >> wife explained to me earlier this year the impact of her husband being detained and held
as a spy while doing research in tehran. >> iran says that he's a spy. >> yeah. he is not a spy. he is not a spy, he is just a history nerd. all he wanted to do is to do good research and then teach for the rest of his life. >> four americans are still wrongfully imprisoned by iran and former fbi agent robert levinson remains missing. the president indicating he is willing to talk to tehran. at the release of american prisoners perhaps a good first step. >> chris: jennifer, thank you and we will see you again later in the hour. as i said, key players in foreign policy and national security gather here each year for the reagan national defense form. earlier i sat down with the secretary of defense mark esper to discuss the threats to american security. >> secretary esper welcome back to "fox news sunday." peter thanks, chris, good to be with you.
>> chris: let's start with a terrible shooting in pensacola. we know at least one of the people that the saudi officer killed was a recent graduate of the u.s. naval academy. did he target americans? >> secretary esper: first of all it's a very tragic incident, our condolences go out to the families of those who were killed and certainly those who were injured as well and so we just want to extend our heartfelt concerns for all of them. with regard to your question, i don't know yet. i think that's why it's important to allow the investigation to proceed, to understand what exactly he was doing and why. >> chris: i mean it's a fact, we know that three people were killed, where they americans are not? i think most people want to know. speak to my understanding is they were americans that were killed, that's my understanding. >> chris: to we have a sense after whether he was going after americans? >> secretary esper: that's what we need to let the investigation play out. >> chris: there are reports that several saudis have been retained in several of them had
been filming the incident. first of all, is that true, and there are some top florida officials willing to say this is a terrorist plot. >> secretary esper: so some were detained, friends of his that were also on that base as i understand it, and i also was told that one or two were filming it. it was unclear is where they filming it before it began or was it something whether picked up their phones and filmed that once they saw it unfolding. that may be a distinction with or without a difference but again that is why i think we need to let the investigation play out. >> chris: that would not be a normal response, to film one of your colleagues who is shooting americans. >> secretary esper: i don't know, i'm not trying to pass judgment on it at this point in time. today people pull out their phones and film everything and anything that happens. >> chris: more than 5,000 foreign nationals are in pentagon training programs. are you going to review the entire program at are you going to try to find some better way to vent -- i understand
hindsight is 20/20 -- some better way to vet people, foreigners who come into this country for this kind of training for any links to extremism? >> secretary esper: sure, let me say one of the first things i did yesterday in the wake of this instance as i spoke to my deputy secretary, the acting navy secretary and others to say i want to immediately make sure we put out an advisory to all of our bases, installations and facilities and make sure we're taking all necessary precautions appropriate to the particular base to make sure our people are safe and secure, that's number one. number two i ask that we begin review of what our screening procedures are with regard to foreign nationals coming to the united states. my understanding is currently of course they are reviewed by department of state, they are reviewed by department of homeland security and they are reviewed by us and i want to make sure that those procedures are full and sufficient. why is that important? not just because of safety but overall these types of programs, exchanges are very important to our national security. we have something that our potential adversaries such as russia and china don't have, which is an elaborate system of alliances and partnerships and
the ability to bring foreign students here to train with us, to understand american culture is very important to us, building those long-term relationships that keep us safer. i will tell you during my time in the military i went to west point with kids from other countries. i trained at at the hellenic military academy increase for a summer. during my time in the army i trained with an officer from africa. all of those things help us understand one another and build close partnerships and we need to continue that. >> chris: so what you seem to be saying is yes if we need to vent better were going to do it but we are not going to drop this program. >> secretary esper: that's right. >> chris: there are reports that the pentagon is working on a planet, considering a plan to send a 7,000 more u.s. troops to the middle east. i understand the president has not decided on this yet, but what would more u.s. troops help us do to counter the threat from iran? >> secretary esper: first of all, i have no plans right now or orders to send 7,000 or
14,000 additional troops to the middle east, but what i've said consistently, certainly to congress and to others is that on a weekly basis, daily basis, we monitor what's happening in the persian gulf, we watch what iran is doing to make sure we understand what their intentions are. what i'm trying to do in that theater are a few things. number one, reassure our allies such as the saudis and the uae and other countries in the region. number two, affirm the right of countries for freedom of navigation, freedom of the seas, and number three, hold up the international rules-based order. what i'm trying to do from the defense department is deter iranian bad behavior. if you recall several months ago there were going after ships in the strait of hormuz, they shot down one of our drones. we reached a point, i think, that we have deter further iranian bad behavior but as we see iranian behavior or intentions changing, i will change our forced posture to maintain that deterrence. >> chris: you say that there are certain things that are doing, they are going after ships in the persian gulf, they aren't shooting down drones, we sent -- you sent in 14,000 more
troops since may but the iranians have continued to shift missiles around the area to iraq, to yemen. they have recently tested a new missile that apparently would have the ability to deliver a nuclear weapon. what would more troops to do? they deter that action and are you basically saying we are prepared to get into a shooting war with iran? >> secretary esper: what i said publicly as we are repaired still not prepared to respond depending on what iran does and they need to understand that our restraint should not be interpreted as weakness. we are prepared to defend ourselves and our friends and allies if necessary but you had on two important things. for 40 years now since the revolution iran has been engaged in a number of activities that have done nothing but undermine the entire region. it's the malign behavior in any number of countries stretching from africa to afghanistan. there missile program, their nuclear program, hostage taking, all those other things we want in a new incompetence of agreement with them to get rid
of. what we want is iran to join and to become a normal nation, a normal country. >> chris: good luck with that. >> secretary esper: well, we have to do it. it like i said, their hands are in every type of country out there stirring things up. at lebanon, saudi arabia, syria, yemen, and we can go all across this region and talk about iranian bad behavior. >> chris: we are here at the reagan library and back in 1985 reagan laid out what was known as the reagan doctrine, which was that the u.s. was going to support resistance movements around the world to counter soviet aggression. in the last few months, this president, president trump, has pulled u.s. troops out of northern syria, abandoning our kurdish allies. he's talking now about a peace deal with the taliban, pulling out of afghanistan. when it comes to fighting isis, when it comes to fighting the taliban, isn't what president trump is now doing the
exact opposite of the reagan doctrine? >> secretary esper: not at all. let's look at those two situations. we withdrew troops from the border with turkey because our long-standing ally of 70 years was going in because of threats they had about terrorist activity coming into turkey and what we told them is you shouldn't do this, we worked hard to get them to not do that, we try to set the safe zone but at the end of the day they were committed to doing that and we weren't going to put our troops in the path. he >> chris: up my point without getting into a lot of the details is we seem to be pulling back from fighting terrorism or ronald reagan was leaning forward in terms of fighting soviet aggression. >> secretary esper: president reagan knew what the threat was. it felt right at the was the ussr and what president trump knows is our long-term challenge as russia and really china, so the key -- you mentioned afghanistan. we've been in that country for 18, 19 years. the only way forward is through political agreement so if we can reach a political agreement between the taliban, the current afghan government and us to ensure that afghanistan is no
longer a safe haven for terrorists, that's a good thing. it also allows me, us, to free up troops, to redeploy against those two other countries that we are most concerned about in the long term. >> chris: we have a little bit of time off, i want to do a lighting on chemical questions and a possible quick answers about trouble spots. north korea's ambassador to the united nations now says that talks about denuclearization are off the table. if they resume nuclear testing, long-range missile testing, what will u.s. do? >> i'm not going to comment on hypotheticals. i will tell you this much, my job is to ensure that we are ready, prepared to fight and win back if necessary. i believe we are in a high state of redness right now but my test that to 2nd task is to enable more diplomats so those of the things we do, i work closely with secretary pompeo on these issues and we will see. i think the talks are always open. i've said, secretary pompeo has said and certainly president trump has said we want to sit down, we want to have negotiations, we want to reach the point where we have
denuclearize north korea. >> chris: president trump pardon several members of the military who had either been convicted or charged with war crimes. he stopped and administrative review. you said he's the commander in chief, it's his call, but as the secretary of defense, are you worried that this undermines the military code of justice and may perhaps discourage other service members from reporting illegal or improper conduct? >> secretary esper: no i don't. i'm a big believer in the supporter of the code of unitary dilatory justice. our soldiers are well -- soldiers, sailors, airmen, marine or well-trained trained on the laws of conflict. if president trump is not the first person to it of pardon commute somebody. there's a long history of commanders in chief doing it, it's their prerogative under the constitution. >> chris: finally a couple questions about impeachment. when we last talked a couple of months ago you said you were going to do everything you could to comply with congressional subpoenas of records about the cut off, the withholding of aid
to ukraine, but two days after our conversation, the pentagon stonewalled, didn't release a single document. are you comfortable with that i secretary of defense? >> secretary esper: what my general counsel had come forward with is that there were legal and technical issues relating to the request that we some liquid and honor, so that was the reason behind that. >> chris: do you feel congress has a right to oversight to be able to see documents from the pentagon about a program that was approved by congress? >> secretary esper: they do, but provided it's on the right and proper way and i think it was the issue. i think my reputation is pretty good in terms of being very transparent. i like to munich it with members of congress but in this case it my recollection is that there were technical and legal issues that prohibited us from doing exactly what was requested by the congress. >> chris: finally, you were the secretary of defense this past summer won a lot of these actions were going down with regard to ukraine. the president trump ever explained to you, tell you why
he was holding up u.s. military aid to ukraine, and ally that is in a current war with russia? >> secretary esper: i'm not going to get into that, there's obviously an inquiry underway on capitol hill. i came into the story, if you will, in late july when i assumed office. >> chris: you've been acting secretary earlier in july. >> secretary esper: i had for a couple weeks in the nose out of the game for a couple weeks while we waited for my confirmation process. i will tell you this much, when i came onto the scene the three things we were looking at for this. one, was the eight necessary vital to the ukrainians in terms of defending against russia humic number two, had that ukrainians are addressed corruption and that was a congressional concern and number three, were other countries in the region, other allies and partners assisting them in given those three things we decided to support the provision of ukrainian aid. at the end of the day, the bottom line is most of that aid got out on time and at no time didn't have any impact on united states national security. >> chris: you were never told about any political
considerations? >> secretary esper: i'm not going to get into that, there's a congressional inquiry underway and i will lay that process unto itself. >> chris: mr. secretary thank you, thank you so much for talking, you've got a lot on your plate defending this country. >> secretary esper: thank you very much. >> chris: thank you so much for doing so. up next, house impeachment investigators make their case to the judiciary committee tomorrow, a big step before democrats write articles of impeachment. we will talk with congressman david cicilline, a top democrat on that committee as "fox news sunday" continues from the air force one pavilion at the ronald reagan presidential library. ♪ beyond the not-so-routine cases. comcast business is helping doctors provide care in whole new ways. all working with a new generation of technologies powered by our gig-speed network. because beyond technology... there is human ingenuity. every day, comcast business is helping businesses
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>> chris: it's a big week on capitol hill. on monday house investigators resent their evidence on impeachment at hearing the white house has declined to take part in. that same day the justice department's inspector general issues his report on how the fbi conducted the russia probe and the ig, michael horowitz, testifies two days later. droning snow, congressman david cicilline, a top member of the house judiciary committee, which would write articles of impeachment. young horsemen democrats on the judiciary committee met this weekend. it is the plan at this point to vote out articles of impeachment against president trump by the end of this week? >> representative cicilline: well, i don't think we know -- chris, i don't think we know the timing of it, but certainly the judiciary committee will hear from the intelligence committee counsel, who will detail that the president of the united states attempted to coerce a foreign leader to interfere in an american
presidential election, to assist him in his reelection, undermining the national security of the united states for his own benefit. this is a classic example of an impeachable offense. it we know that from the scholars we listen to, so we are going to receive the evidence carefully. we are going to evaluate that evidence as it applies to the law that is set forth in the constitution and make a judgment about what articles of impeachment -- but the timetable i think is less clear. >> chris: you talk about evidence. while the committee focus just on the alleged offenses in terms of what the president did in ukraine, or will you go back, as some democrats are talking about, to the mueller report and what it alleged about potential obstruction of justice by president trump and the russia investigation, a subject which is not been discussed at all during the last few months, really hasn't been discussed and congress since last july when robert mueller testified? >> representative cicilline: well, the judiciary committee
has collected an enormous amount of evidence both in its own work and now of course a 300 page report from the intelligence committee. i think it will demonstrate and does demonstrate a pattern of behavior by this president to seek foreign assistance interfering in american presidential election and in an effort to obstruct congresses a review of those circumstances so we will look at all of the material we collected, all the evidence that is been generated and we will make a judgment but again, the focus is on the president's misconduct, the president of the united states asking a foreign government to interfere in an american presidential election. this really is what our founder spoke about when they were speaking about impeachment, about an abuse of power, about using the power of the presidency to advance your own personal or political interests ahead of the national election. >> chris: just answer my question though, if you could just answer my question is are going to be just an ukraine or may you look back at the russia
probe and potential obstruction of justice there? >> representative cicilline: look, i think all of the potential articles of impeachment on the table, that will be a decision the judiciary committee makes in consultation with the chairs of the relevant committees and obvious that with the leadership of the house, but the judiciary committee will have all the evidence and will make a judgment in the decision will be made by the committee at the appropriate time. >> chris: as part of the intelligence committee's report earlier this week, chairman adam schiff released phone logs of telephone calls between rudy giuliani or one of his associates with the chair -- or rather the republican, the former chair of the house until committee devin nunes and also with a reporter, john solomon. republicans are pushing back hard on what adam schiff did. here they are. >> i've never seen a chairman of the committee abuse their subpoena power to go after other members of congress that they have political disagreements
with or members of the press that they have political disagreements with. that's over the line. >> chris: it congressman, is that -- if i may ask the question first, is that the new standard, that members of congress can subpoena phone records on the release them about members of congress from the other party or members of the media because that takes into pretty dangerous territory. >> representative cicilline: look, the intelligence committee has the solemn responsibility of collecting evidence relevant to the impeachment inquiry, all the evidence and the use of a lawful process to do that. the real question is why it is the republican ranking member of the intelligence committee engaged in a conversation with les parnassus and others and why is he participating in somewhere in the very subject matter of this inquiry? that's the really alarming development as of the committee has a responsibility to collect all the evidence and to carefully evaluate it to use lawful process to do it and i
wish my republican colleagues were as concerned about evidence collection and what the evidence showed rather than the embarrassment to one of their colleagues. >> chris: but, you know, once you open the store, everybody's going to go through it so when the republicans are in the majority, you have no problem with them subpoenaing your phone records and finding out who you've been in touch with? >> representative cicilline: i think it is important that a committee of jurisdiction collect all of the relevant evidence, particularly when we're focused on something as deadly serious as impeachment proceeding. this is a serious proceeding. we have a responsibility to collect all the evidence, whatever it is, evaluated, apply the constitutional provisions and when you do that you understand that the president's continuing -- really a continuous threat to our elections, to the integrity of our democracy, and we have to move forward with these proceedings. no one runs for congress to impeach a president, we are faced with a very, very serious
set of misconduct by this president, we have a responsibility to honor our oath of office, to protect and defend the constitution, was simple i cannot allow president or any president to invite foreign interference in our elections. you know who gets to decide our elections? the american people, the citizens of this country, not any foreign power. that's what separates our great country from authoritarian countries all over the world. >> chris: congressman, some moderate democrats, especially some who were elected in swing districts that donald trump carried in 2016, are talking openly about voting against impeachment if it gets to the house floor. as a member of democratic house leadership, are you sure that the democrats now have the 216 votes they would need to impeach this president? >> representative cicilline: i think there is no question that the evidence that has been developed during the course of this investigation or this inquiry is overwhelming and uncontested, that the president of the united states sought foreign interference to help in his reelection. >> chris: congressman i'm running out of time so i'm going
to there. i'm not talking with evidence, i'm talking what do you have the votes? >> representative cicilline: i fully expect that the vast majority of the members of congress from the democratic caucus will accept that evidence and will move forward with articles of impeachment. the real question is why is the part of ronald reagan that prevailed in the cold war willing to accept this kind of foreign interference in our elections? >> chris: finally, the inspector general, michael horowitz, issues his report tomorrow and on the russia probe and he reportedly finds that the fbi had adequate cause to pursue that investigation. he apparently finds serious misconduct, even perhaps criminal activity on the part of some lower-level people, but he says that the top leadership of the fbi and other agencies were not guided by political bias. do you expect that to end the debate over whether or not the fbi was spying on the trump
campaign in 2016 as attorney general barr contends? >> representative cicilline: you would hope that it would finally end this kind of silly claim that been made repeatedly by the president and his allies. the report is going to say the fbi was fully justified in its investigation of the trump campaign but sadly we have seen before that facts sometimes don't matter, that they stand in the way of these arguments that they're making in an attempt to defend the president's grave misconduct. i hope it puts an end to it once and for all but will will have to see. >> chris: congressman cicilline, thank you, thanks for your time and we will track developments in your committee this week, thank you sir. >> representative cicilline: thank you. thank you. >> chris: up next we will bring in our panel to discuss impeachment in the ig report as "fox news sunday" continues from the reagan presidential library in california. ♪ (statler) hello, my name is itsy bitsy. i love watching the weather. rain again? (robin) hahahaha! (statler) that's impossible.
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>> i think adam schiff is a deranged human being. i think he grew up with the complex for lots of reasons that are obvious. i think he's a very sick man. >> we should care about this, we must care about this and if we don't care about this we condone will be sure the president will be back at it doing this all over again. >> chris: the attacks from president trump and intel committees chair adam schiff getting even rougher as house democrats near a final vote on impeachment. it's time now for our sunday group here at the reagan library. g.o.p. strategist karl rove and
once again, fox news national security correspondent jennifer griffin. karl, just as a pure political calculation, at this point, do house democrats run a greater risk going ahead with impeachment or suddenly deciding to back off? >> well, they are not going to back off, they're going ahead in the real question is going to be how broad are the articles of impeachment going to be. there's an argument going on now inside the democratic party as to what they ought to indict him for and how broad it ought to be because the calculus is this, 31 democrats sit in seats that donald trump won and those people are starting to get nervous. we saw some reporting on three poles done in three of those districts by the republicans that show independence indepens moving strongly against impeachment and the impeachment issue stroking up republicans and districts donald trump won four years ago and is likely to occur again. >> chris: jan, as part of the house intelligence committee report as i just discussed with congressman cicilline,
adam schiff, the chairman, release these phone logs of telephone calls between giuliani and one of his associates with the white house, with republican congressman devin nunes, with a reporter. does that take us down the slippery slope? >> it certainly seems to and if you listen to republican jim banks, he's called on the judiciary committee to subpoena adam schiff's phone records. lindsey graham has said that he will not do that, he will not be going down that path, but there is this sort of tit-for-tat. at the democrats say that they were not subpoenaing devin nunes' phone records or journalists phone records, john solomon. they say that capture -- >> chris: in other words there were going after the records of giuliani or his associates. it turned out they were talking -- they didn't have to release them. >> they did not, and that's their choice and that's with her getting hammered for. >> rudy giuliani is the president a bunch of his lawyer, confidentiality relationship between the client and his lawyer. they went after rudy giuliani's.
>> do we know it was his phone records are not left parnassus, who has been indicted? >> chris: we know that rudy giuliani -- calls between rudy giuliani and the white house. didn't get that there lev parna parnas. let's move to the other story, out this week, the inspector general, michael horowitz has been discussing her looking into this for a month and the reports are -- we will see the probe itself tomorrow, that the ig is going to say that yes there were some serious problems on the lower levels of the fbi. they may have filled with a memo that is used as part of the warrant to get the fisa warrant, the application to get the fisa warrant but that they are going to say that the basic probe of donald trump in 2016, his campaign was -- with due process, had an appropriate basis and that the fbi leaders were not doing it with political bias. if that's what comes out, what does that due to all the conspiracy talk that we are from the right?
>> well, i think it's going to be really difficult because the president has said he thinks it's going to be a blockbuster report. i think is going to be disappointed from what we seen of the initial leaks of the drafts. john durham, he's been banking on. the lawyer -- >> chris: the u.s. attorney that anthony bart -- >> chosen to look into aspects of whether there was a certain professor that was a u.s. intelligence asset. supposedly they did not find that to be the case and so durham seems to be agreeing with horwitz and when horwitz makes his signing tomorrow that they were not spying on the trump campaign, that they had a reason to open this fbi investigation, i think the president will be disappointed. you did mention this lower level lawyer at the fbi, kevin clines, he's not going to come out looking very good when he presented the fisa court information on carter page he did some sloppy things and they're going to have to relook at how the spies applications are made.
>> chris: just briefly, one of the allegations had been that this professor, who spoke to -- george papadopoulos and said that the russians have dirt on hillary clinton, the question was, what was he an honest person here or was he in fact as set up as some conservatives have suggested american intelligence agencies and this was all kind of a conspiracy to go after donald trump and one, horowitz didn't find that, and he also talked to this u.s. attorney, this investigating is a potential criminal clay case and he didn't find it either which brings us up, karl, to the fact that there's a lot of people from the president to the attorney general from republicans in congress to members of the conservative media will have all been pushing this conspiracy theory or this theory that this was all an attempt to take down donald trump. if the ig, who is considered a pretty straight shooter, michael horowitz, says it's not true, what happens?
>> i think you need to look at horowitz as an interim report because he is constrained. he cannot talk to people who are no in government service. as inspector general he can only talk to people who are currently in government service so he can't go out and talk to lisa page and compelled her to testify, peter strzok, et cetera. i think this is interim but is it likely to undermine some of the naughty or conspiracy theories? yes. but i would say this, john durham i think is going to be looking at -- may be looking at a much different question, which was was the fisa court that granted the authority of the wiretap given the fulsome and full and complete information that the fisa court needs to have or were they playing fast and loose with the application for the wiretap which is an entirely different issue, but the ultimate authority and this is going to be durham, who can compel testimony from people who are in government service and people who have left government service or were never in government service. >> chris: go ahead. >> horwitz interviewed a hundred people, a million pages of
documents, 500 page report. i don't think it's an interim report and i would also say that durham, he will be looking at whether there's any evidence of a fisa court misuse -- and that's where kevin kleinsmith will not look good as an fbi lawyer, but i think that durham in the end, there is no evidence to suggest that that fisa court application was for carter page. that was not the basis for the whole investigation. >> that's why i say it's a different issue. look, when i say interim, he can come to conclusions about a certain range of items where all you need to do is to talk to people who are currently in government service or examining documents that are about people who left, but durham has a broader authority as a u.s. attorney in the special investigation where he can compel testimony from individuals who are no longer in government service and i think is going to look at other things that horwitz can't come to conclusion about. >> chris: so in 20 seconds i get the sense that they're probably going to be some republicans out there no matter
what horwitz pines were going to say we got to wait for the durham report. >> frankly they may not be interested about -- a lot of people are going to say that but what's interesting is horowitz may resolve things that they are interested in. durham may talk about things that they haven't yet begun to focus on because they don't fit into the conspiracy. >> chris: so it goes on. thank you both, we will see you back in washington and what promises to be an intense week. up next, the u.s. faces threats from old rivals like russia and growing polarization here at home. we will ask to national security experts about it when we return library in seamy california. ect. so chevron's finding more homegrown energy, more precisely. digitizing the way we work with advanced data analytics helping us develop more productive wells. and we're exploring ways to use renewable energy in our operations. doin' more... ...with less. more data and precision... to help meet growing demand.
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>> like ronald reagan, president trump came into office with an unshakable vision for the foundation of american power. peace through strength. >> the unity of the country, the unity of our allies is worth ten battleships to us in a fight. >> the strength of the united states of america lies in our alliances. in their ability to work with others. >> chris: just a sample of the top officials and foreign policy experts here at the reagan defense forum about the best strategy to confront threats to the u.s. earlier, i sat down with michele flournoy, former undersecretary for defense for policy and former democratic senator sam nunn, now cochair of the nuclear threat initiative. >> chris: thank you both for talking with me. senator, you received the reagan peace through strength award this weekend and in your speech, you say that the threat of confrontation right now between the u.s. and russia is the greatest since the cuban missile
crisis. it really? >> i think that's true. we are not communicating as we did even during the cold war. we have confrontation with them with troops in the same proximity both in the middle east as well as in europe over ukraine. we have a collapse of arms control. we are hanging on with a couple of treaties but there's no real regulatory regime. we have new technologies like cyber that could be used to basically spook or full a command-and-control system of any country that has nuclear weapons as well as warning systems. all of those things been particularly new technologies. we need to be communicating with the lines of communication are nowhere near as vigorous as they should be and when you consider u.s. and russia have 90% of the nuclear weapons and 90% of the nuclear materials, there's an acute obligation for these two countries to talk, even when we disagree. >> chris: michelle, how seriously do to keep the right of confrontation? confrontation between the u.s.
and russia and president putin, russian leader just said that he would like to extend the new start treaty before the end of the year. it runs out in 2021. he talks down my thoughts about that, should we take them up on a? >> we should absolutely take them up on the offer to extend start -- the new start treaty basically provides the strategic framework to create some creditability, transparency, stability, in our nuclear relationships. we don't want to take the lid off that and get into an open competition with russia right now. there are definitely issues that need to be solved in renegotiating a future treaty, but let's keep the current one in place and then open up a new negotiation. >> chris: senator nunn, when you look at president trump's policies around the world, what do you see of his that you think is doing right and is there anything you see that you think he's doing wrong you met >> i agree with him in terms of his initiative on north korea. i wish there had been a game
plan and still it needs to be developed to do it step-by-step process in terms of denuclearization, it's got to be a win-win here but opening with south korea i agree with. i agree that he's helped increase defense resources. i agree that he's helped spur the nato allies to do more but in terms of the overall, the alliances have been, in my view have been shaken very badly because we don't have predict ability from one day to the next, our allies in europe and around the world don't know it's going to come from president trump, so that is a real weakness in the way he goes about saying name-calling and so forth, it really takes its toll. >> chris: michele, same question, what is president trump doing right in the area, foreign policy, national security, what's he doing wrong? >> i do think we needed to open our eyes to a more competitive situation with a rising china and i think there's been bipartisan support that's come along behind that. i think the president is
certainly supported the increase in defense spending and future capabilities but i agree with senator nunn, i think even if we are doing some of the right things day today on our defense relationships and alliances, overall we are seeing people don't know exactly what we stand for because our policies are not consistent, we don't seem to have a cohesive strategy. it we've become an unbreakable, if not unreliable, ally, so that creates a lot of uncertainty. it tempts adversaries to test us to see where the limits are and i think it moves some of our allies to start hedging against the possibility that they can't count on the united states of america. >> chris: michele, is there a big threat out there that you think all of us, the politicians, the media, the foreign policy experts, are not paying enough attention to? >> actually think a lot of
people in washington understand the challenge of a rising china in a competitive threat that it will propose to us economically, technologically, from the security point of view, even from an influence point of view, but i don't think that's understood widely or at least not in any kind of nuanced way. i think there's a huge opportunity to explain this to the american people, not to make china an enemy, because we want to avoid that, but to say, look, this is a competitive moment. we as americans know how to compete, let's invest in the drivers of our own success, research and development, education. 21st century technology and so forth. so i think with the right leadership and vision, you could actually get this country moving again in a much more competitive world. >> chris: senator nunn, i want to go back to something you said in your speech. you talk about peace through strength at home at one of the
things you discuss is the lack of civility and that that is sort of undercutting the unity of the nation and its ability to confront threats. how serious an issue do you think that is? >> i think it is a serious issue. i think when we are divided at home we do not have anything like a strength we would otherwise have a broad and i believe every american with that voice and their vote should insist on civility. civility doesn't mean you're going to agree, it means you don't demonize the other side and while you're disagreeing you recognize that we have to work together to have sensible policy. democrats and republicans and independents are all in this together. many days in washington you would never know that. so civility is absolutely essential in my view for governance and governance, given all those changes in technology, may be the most difficult problem we face in terms of the digital age. we have many, many challenges and right now technology is far
out running policy. >> chris: do you see the push by house democrats for impeachment now as a sign of the breakdown in civility? >> well i'm concerned about it. i'm concerned about the fact that the republicans and democrats are not coming together. people who made up their mind long before the evidence has been completed and if you're thinking about impeachment you have to ask yourself what happens if it goes to the senate if we don't have republicans on board, is it just going to wither away, is there going to be any condemnation? i think a serious option not to be considered in the house as center. center can condemn the conduct without basically taking away the right of the american people to make the decision on who our leaders should be. >> chris: but just to follow up on this, when you talk to democrats they say no, no way in the president, no way. so it doesn't seem like anybody
wants to take that off ramp. >> everybody is against it, republicans are against incumbent democrats, the president is against it but i think the behavior, prima facie case, we need to hear all the evidence but prima facie case is there was a very bad mistake made here in terms of basically extorting a foreign country with appropriated funds that had already been passed to help on a military emergency in exchange for going after political opponent. that's a prima facie case and it seems to me that kind of behavior at least has to be condemned, but i think center ought to be looked at very carefully by everybody. maybe the fact all parties are against it means it's the right way to go. >> chris: peace through strength at home, what a nice thing to talk and think about at the reagan library. senator nunn, michele flournoy, thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> chris: up next, our "power player of the week," one of the world's foremost experts on spies and the fascinating
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>> chris: if are setting here at the reagan library doesn't take you back to the cold war, our next guest will. his love of spies and spy craft has taken him around the world on his own special mission. here's our "power player of the week" ." >> i've always been fascinated and not just what spies did, but how they did it. >> chris: keith melton is obsessed with spies. and how they pull off their missions. >> hidden beneath a gentleman's waistcoat, called the detective camera. >> chris: he spent decades hunting down spy gadgets, amassing the world's largest private collection and becoming a historical advisor to u.s. intelligence agencies. >> every artifact there is a story. usually there's a trip, often involve some strange country in the middle of the night using currencies and meeting someone in a parking lot at 2:00 a.m. and it's the tracking down that i find fascinating.
>> chris: he has donated thousands of pieces to the international spy museum in washington. giving visitors the back story on how espionage shapes their world. >> i believe it's essential that the american public understands the true role of what spies do in our intelligence services and how they represent the first line of defense for the democracy. >> chris: the museum reopened the summer, a $162 million building. it features james bond's aston martin and interactive exhibits like red team. where visitors decide if they make the call to raid what turned out to be osama bin laden's compound. >> how confident are you in your analysis? >> this is a hard one. [laughs] >> chris: i kind of know the ending, i will sam highly confident. >> the centerpiece is the gate vast array about spy gadgets like the cia pen and camera.
>> you put it over document, you take a photograph you smuggle it out and it wasn't -- we call it the camera that won the cold war. >> chris: and then there's this ax. >> this was my white whale. >> chris: melton spent 40 years tracking down one of the world's most famous murder weapons used by a soviet spy to kill leon trotsky, a rival of the stalin regime. >> he came up behind him with two hands and just as he was about to strike he closed his eyes and instead of hitting him in the back of the head, he hit him in the side of the head. >> chris: melton's passion took him to berlin after the wall fell. the kgb headquarters as the soviet union dissolved. when a regime collapses, you see it as a buying opportunity. >> during times of instability, artifacts become available. >> chris: what makes a good spy? >> the best spy is the one never heard of. information that is obtained that our adversaries don't know
is missing is far more valuable than not they realize has been stolen. >> chris: now melton has a new white whale. a small crossbow u.s. intelligence came up with during world war ii. >> they only made a handful of them. i've gotten within 30 minutes of obtaining one, but it's the one piece of never been able to find. >> chris: i hope you find a crossbow. >> thank you. >> chris: since the spy museum reopened this summer, more than 400,000 people have gone to see it. and that's it for today, have a great week and we will see you back in washington next "fox news sunday." ♪ we all have things we love and long for. a place, a feeling, a moment.
now the ultimate consequence is they are not coming home for christmas. a family in mourning has three victims in a deadly crashes being investigated. investigator tried to find out why that car they were in. off the road and into a tree. >> port pirates are on the prowl. according to a new study, we received more packages than any other city. >> but first, a massive tree comes crashing down on top of the family's home in oakland. we'll show you the damage, and what it will take to clean it all up. from ktvu fox2 news, this is mornings on 2. >> good morning to you, welcome to mornings on 2 on this december 8. >> happy weekend one and all.