tv The Ten Oclock News on KTVU Fox 2 FOX December 18, 2021 10:00pm-10:45pm PST
no, thank you. i'm done with little ones running around the house. (ducklings cheeping) stay. oh, i said stay. the ducks imprinted on claire. it's n-not a big deal. come on, guys. she said stay! (ducklings cheeping) come on. food, architecture, people and um, yeah, it was just great. hollywood moves north to san francisco tonight for the premiere of the matrix resurrections. good evening, and thanks for joining us tonight, i'm cristina rendon and i'm zach sauce and for andre, senior.
well san francisco going green tonight, and we're not talking about the environment buildings like city hall glowing green light right now to celebrate the city's role in a mega hollywood franchise. the matrix? yes this is the newest installment, the matrix resurrections. it premiered tonight. at the castro theater. ktvu elissa harrington was on the green carpet and she's joining us live now, with a look at how hollywood put a spotlight on the city, alyssa. you know, it was so much fun being there tonight because these cast members, they all just love each other so much. they were giving each other hugs . it's really clear why they have now done for matrix films. everyone was, of course, excited to take the audience back down the rabbit hole again encounter. reeves told me he hopes everyone loves the movie. stars walked the green carpet into the historic castro theater in san francisco for the premiere of the matrix resurrections. it's a dream it really is. san francisco means so much to all of us in the movie. we started shooting the movie here. good. i
love it. here have a lot of fun memories. this is the fourth installment in the wildly popular matrix franchise i love. chiana reeves reprised his role as neo playing the role and i love. you know what i feel like the ideas in the films and so for me to get another chance to be a part of telling another matrix story was. a gift. san francisco is the backdrop for much of the movie it was filmed in the city salesforce tower is even seen in the trailer. grief said he worked with the stunt team and even jumped off the high rise in the financial district to get a scene right during shooting. what was that? like? that was really fun. yeah some other familiar faces from the bay area attended the premiere, like former giant star hunter pence morpheus. his body language in the first one was something i would try to mimic throughout the playoffs. whenever i was talking to reporters and. handling tough questions. mayor london breed
called this a big night for the city. i'm just really happy that matrix not only chose to film in san francisco, which had a tremendous impact on our economy. but their premier, which premieres like this are usually in hollywood, and they chose san francisco again for the premiere, she shared a picture on her social media of city hall and sfo lit up in matrix colors were trying to light up the whole city and green outside the theater fans, many decked out in all black and leather. screamed as the stars arrived. a large red pill was stationed along castro street. just the nostalgia of this is amazing. we're out here last year before covid, and we watched some film it and. yeah it was great. i just hope that people enjoy it. and i hope that it can bring something positive . um an inspirational to everyone who sees it. i can tell you that tonight. covid was also being taken very seriously. at
the premiere. we all had to wear masks, even though we had already shown are vaccination cards and we got rapid covid testing. earlier today. they still wanted everyone to wear their masks. definitely stay distanced as well. reporting live. i'm elissa harrington ktvu , fox two news. alright, alyssa. thank you. and despite the excitement there, many shops in the castro near the theater itself say that they're happy to premier is behind them. the lack of outreach anywhere was absolutely appalling. this should be our most profitable weekend of the year. and it's hurting. some shops and restaurant owners near the site of tonight's premiere voiced concerns that the event forced part of castro street to shut down as early as yesterday, and that made it difficult for customers to find parking. mew at 10. police in oakland are asking for the public's help to find a suspect involved in attempted homicide. the department released this video and photos of the man they're looking for in connection with a shooting this morning. it happened just before nine on
international boulevard near 102nd avenue. the victim is now in the hospital in critical condition. anyone with information should call oakland police also new attend. the search is on for a robber who hit a cow student store on the u. c berkeley campus. the man made off with more than $1000 worth of clothing. it happened around 11 45 this morning at the store on bancroft way near sprout plaza. police say a student worker tried to stop the robber what was hit in the process. investigators say the suspect was last seen wearing a green, beanie and black and red sweat pants. the white house prepares tonight for a speech president biden will make about coronavirus. we're told that on tuesday the president will announce new steps he's taking to limit the spread of the virus. omar cranberry cases have been confirmed at least 39 states as the variant moves across the country and as fox news is, lauren green reports, the number of new cases nationwide are up 50% compared to november last year. however
exports had hoped that 2022 might offer a light at the end of the tunnel for the worst of the covid pandemic. but the rapid spread of the cranberry and is now prompting concern of an upcoming winter surge. this omicron variant is spreading even faster than delta did the velocity with which it. it becomes the dominant strain is like nothing that we've seen before. during this pandemic in new york city, the line to get covid test now stretches around the block. broadway is taking no chances. hambleton and the radio city christmas spectacular among those counseling upcoming shows out of an abundance of caution. guests will get refunds but are obviously disappointed. frustrated we were so excited to see hambleton. we flew a long way to get here and then we get here in their clubs sign on the door. hospitals are once again facing the strain. the nationals seven day average for new cases is lower than last winter's
peak, but 50% higher than it was in early november. numbers are worse in cold weather regions where more people are gathering indoors, doctors say the majority of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated. we don't understand why people are so reluctant to get. vaccinated but just purely from a medical perspective, we think the choice is obvious. the cdcs has 61% of americans have gotten at least two vaccine doses. but that a third booster shot offers the best level of protection against macron. in new york. lauren green fox news. the white house says the government is deploying additional health teams to states where hospitals are risk of becoming overwhelmed. those states include colorado, new mexico, michigan, new york, vermont and new hampshire. we are just one week out from christmas. and there are new concerns about the rapid spread of the omicron variant, and this is covid numbers surged across the country. we're in for a
tried gimmick, and that is on top of delta omicron we have lurking in the wings influenza. some medical professionals say there is no need to sound the alarm just yet. coming up a bit later in the newscast, ktvu is greg liggins speaks with two doctors who have very different thoughts about what the pandemic may have in store for us. and the highly contagious oh macron variant has continued to spread quickly across europe that is left political leaders scrambling to put restrictions in place to keep cases from spiking even further. foxes. jeff paul picks up our team coverage with a look at new restrictions taking effect overseas. you can already sense a change in the air here in london, plans are being canceled or postponed master being worn more often, and premier league soccer matches are getting called off as well and as cases skyrocket. doctors here in the uk say this might only be the start. so all of the meetings that we have attended in so far as the network is concerned where modeling is taking place,
the message is clear that this looks like it's the calm before the storm. in the uk infection numbers soared to new records, the mayor of london made a major incident declaration to help hospitals with added resources to deal with the surge in cases. prime minister boris johnson is new rules that would ban indoor mixing for two weeks after christmas. the only exception would be for work. and pubs and restaurants would be limited to outdoor service while the government sorts out what's next ? there's a renewed push to get people vaccinated and boosted as more folks become sick now, dr jim three or four times away. mountain boys. never opposite. it's just just knocked me off my face. you just say you don't think it's going to happen have been double jabs. as well. my in july jobs. and you did say for finally been vaccinated probably wouldn't bear elsewhere in europe countries like france or
imposing new travel restrictions . paris has even cancels its new year's eve fireworks. denmark has closed its theaters, concert halls, amusement parks and museums. ireland is now imposing an eight pm curfew, pubs and bars and just announced a short while ago. the netherlands is going into lockdown that will last until mid january. the world health organization says the omicron variant has now been detected in nearly 90 countries in london, jeff paul fox news, meanwhile, back here in the u. s saturday night live announcing today that it show will go on tonight without the live studio audience. producers tweeted this message out today, saying quote due to the recent spike in the omicron variant and out of an abundance of caution, there will be no live audience for tonight's taping of saturday night live and the show will have limited cast and crew actor paul is set to host the show tonight. it's the last live show of 2021 more than half of the 22,000 covid cases reported in
new york state yesterday were in new york city. several california's school districts are pushing back facts. he made a deadlines while doubling down efforts to get more students vaccinated. on wednesday, west contra costa unified board members voted to move the deadline from january 3rd to february 18th, the superintendent of west contra costa unified said the district would not have been prepared to accommodate the nearly 7000 students who have not yet verified their vaccination status. some parents in the west contra costa school district have been fighting against that student vaccine mandate. flames caused big trouble tonight for a major e commerce distribution center will run through how this impacts deliveries in the run up to christmas. there are shopping cart killer doesn't speak about things with his victims. plus virginia investigators think they've nabbed someone being called the shopping cart killer coming up the serial killers ties to california. add a burial , whether a cool star to your weekend and once again we're tracking some fog overnight, but
california, and investigators think their shopping cart killers list of victims will grow more now from fox's elliott, alexandria, hoff. of the four known victims. one had not yet been named. but this afternoon i spoke to a woman who police reached out to believing one of the bodies belongs to her sister. she identified her as stephanie harrison from california and said that her sister came to d. c in september to sightsee but never returned home, adding that her sister did not know the man now called the shopping cart killer. but that they did have rooms at the same motel here's fairfax county police chief. he's killed four already and we suspect that he has more victims. um he's a predator. as all serial killers
are, he prays on the weak, he prays on the vulnerable. um, and he does unspeakable things with his victim or shopping cart. killer doesn't speak about things. with his victims. the nickname belongs to 35 year old anthony robinson. he was taken into custody last month charged in the deaths of 54 year old elin redman and 39 year old anita smith. their bodies were found near a shopping car in harrisonburg, virginia. two more bodies, one believed to belong to 29 year old cheyenne brown were uncovered on wednesday that was two hours away in alexandria, virginia. that was in a wooded area near the motel , where stephanie harrison was last seen after he inflicts trauma. to his victims and kills them. he transports their bodies to their final resting place, literally in a shopping cart. police are now trying to piece together where else robinson has been. he lived in d c, but had prior addresses elsewhere, such as in new york. investigators
think that robinson connected with at least some of his victims through online dating sites in washington. alexandria hoff, fox news, spacex celebrates another successful launch from california tonight. one. zero. they should lift off of 1000 9. go starling. a falcon nine rocket lifted off from vandenberg space force base in land park this morning, it carried 52 internet satellites in orbit. the goal here is to use those satellites to help bring internet access to underserved areas of the world. part of this rocket was designed to return to earth and it did just that it landed on his spacex drone ship in the ocean. well it may look quiet right now on highway 50 and myers, but check back in the morning. people from the bay area have been keeping that stretch of roadway busy this weekend, enjoying a snowy holiday getaway. and plenty more people expected to the sierra this week . just one week before christmas . it is all thanks to that fresh
snow reporter stephanie lynn shows us how people are experiencing that winter wonderland your truckee. it's so nice. it's so beautiful. it's a sentiment we heard over beautiful saturday. roads are clear and we're making really good time and over again by travelers going up. i 80 this weekend before christmas great time to play and have snowball fights. families heading out of town for holiday getaways in the sierra these bay area parents taking their six year old to see lake tahoe for the first time. this kind of turnaround from that rises into the worst season here. i think this will help a lot, the recent weather bringing another much needed surge of moisture to the area, attracting tourism dollars from across the state. we can't go skiing or we're going to go to heavenly. these brothers bought their ski tickets just a few weeks ago. i'm sure if it would snow now they're glad they did. now i think the ski lifts are double the prices of when we bought them. so we're pretty happy all this incoming traffic welcomed
by businesses in downtown truckee, we have a vibrant local community, but also the tourists obviously employ most of our local community. so we're very grateful. the snow is great. it brings lots of people up. this woman runs this jewelry store in town, not everybody, skis and snowboards. so in a family. you're getting people that want to come and explore downtown truckee and then also rest of the family that wants to go explore the mountains. but with more cars on the roads, this local does have a message to share. i would just encourage all the travelers to be nice and kind and patient this holiday season, likely a busy one thanks to all this snow in the sierra. happy holidays. enjoy your time . yeah just merry christmas. yeah and reminder to all drivers who are planning to head up into the sierra because we have more cold weather expected on the way . it's best to please be prepared. make sure that your tires are properly inflated
before he hit the road and that those tires have proper tread. you might also want to throw a couple of extra blankets in the car with you to make sure that you're properly warm and bundled up for the journey up here. reporting from soda springs, stephanie lynn. beautiful scenes up in the sierra four today looked like travel no problems, but that could be changing over the coming week as we are tracking more storms here in the bay area and more storms in this year. a right now current temperatures. we have clear to partly cloudy skies in the mountains and. getting very cold in truckee right now. 14 degrees , and here is the plan this for your sunday also on a monday and tuesday as we take a look at the next three days, lots of sunshine tomorrow, maybe a few extra clouds by monday afternoon . then we could be tracking the first bands of snow moving in later in the day on tuesday and a lot more snow in the forecast over the coming week and more rain. we're tracking here as well as far as temperatures from today it was a cool one that some dense fog lingering into a good portion of the afternoon,
and that meant to temperatures holding the forties out toward vallejo and fairfield, oakland, 55 san francisco 52 in san jose, one of the warm response. 54 degrees. here's the satellite and you can't see a storm track up here. it's not here in the bay area, so the rainfall is up toward portland's so are breaking. the rain continues, at least with the pattern like this . with the relatively calm winds , the cold temperatures we will be tracking some fog once again , just like we have been over the past couple nights right now is 37 degrees in santa rosa conquered 42. san jose 44 degrees, so somewhat of a cold up evening out there want to talk about a very cold day forecast for tomorrow morning as well. here's a live camera looking out toward the bay bridge out towards san francisco . probably cloud things up a bit into your sunday morning forecast and also some pockets of fog. first thing tomorrow morning that could impact your visibility. it is a dry weather pattern for tomorrow, but that will be changing in your five day forecast. multiple storms headed our way. and we'll have more on that with your forecast in a little bit. everyone heard
about the terrible fires and quilters love to help found or fire victims he gifts coming in from across the country coming up how some of those gifts are becoming mew keepsakes for families who lost everything. and the warriors facing the raptors with depleted roster later in sports. find out if a career night from rookie jonathan come, inga was enough to escape canada with the winds and see how stores plan to use your holiday gift return experienced when your business experienced when your business in the future enjoy the gift of being together. the binaxnow covid-19 antigen self test has the same technology used by doctors and detects multiple variants. so in just 15 minutes, you can test, know, and go. available in stores and online. ♪
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shopping and full swing, but new season also on the horizon. the season of returns. yes maybe those clothes didn't fit quite right. sending back or exchanging those unwanted gifts can be costly for companies. ktvu is tom baker shows us how a new type of technology is helping retailers recover the cost of those returns. one critical consumer benefit that makes both online and brick and mortar stores. more successful are liberal return policies. but this year, experts say u s consumers will return some $67 billion in merchandise for replacements or refunds. that is the entire value of shipping giant federal express or allstate insurance and twitter combined, founded a research that shows the better returns
experience. you have the better forward experience and the better loyalty you build with those customers begins, is a senior data director at toro, a software company that specializes in gift and product return technologies up toro projects returns cost retailersr cost because many times the items are not refurbished, recycled or resold. how often they're actually just ending up in a dump sort of in a trash heap quite literally in the landfill. and so that's a lot of lost money for the retailer itself and get this memory chips are everywhere now, not just in computers and phones. refrigerators washers. many appliances are loaded with them . so our wearable technologies, including fitness trackers, running shoes, earphones and smart glasses. all of them record and store. personal data needs to be an entirely different process where you're going through and you're doing things like wiping memory,
making sure that personally identifiable information is not on these devices. that's why return technology has become increasingly essential. we've seen a number of retailers that have before they've onboard top toro. we're throwing away north of 60 70 80% of their returns, recycling or putting in a dump. we keep 95 to 97% of all products put through up tauruses software out of landfills. that is also a very much intended environmental benefit for everyone. tom vacar ktvu fox two news. you're in for a tribunal, and that is on top of delta and over crime we have lurking in the wings. well doctors want to see an end to the country's recent surge of coronavirus cases, they do notice something encouraging about the newest strain. they lay it out coming up. and e commerce powerhouse suffers a major setback at the peak of the holiday shopping season. tonight, work begins to figure out how a massive fire will impact your orders and see
what's being done to lift the spirits of halldor fire victims over the holidays. this holiday season, we want to enjoy the gift of being together. for peace of mind, take the first step in knowing. because it might just be a cold, but you want to be confident. the binaxnow covid-19 antigen self test has the same technology used by doctors and detects multiple variants. so in just 15 minutes, you can test, know, and go. available in stores and online. ♪ ♪
♪ the dominant variant, it's surging in parts of the country , including here ktvu is greg ligon spoke with to bear health experts, both with very different opinions on what covid could look like moving forward. hospitalizations and deaths are up in some of the least vaccinated areas of the country . while macron grabs headlines, delta is doing the damage and another familiar threat is looming concern for dr john schwartzberg. i think we're in for a tried emmick and that is on top of delta omicron. we hav.
influenza in normal years. the flu alone causes hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations and upwards of 25,000 deaths. we could really begin in for some really tough times in terms of having the hospital capacity to take care of everybody. though there is the potential in parts of the country for hospitals to return to tents and other means to expand capacity. so wartburg considers that a worst case scenario. dr monica gandhi has a different take given recent studies that indicate all macron although more transmissible may cause mostly mild disease. they took models of lung cells. and even though alpha delta all the other variants will get into lung cells and cause fusion and cause damage. the alma cron variant doesn't seem to be able to infect lung cells. that potentially means ah macron may cause something more akin to a bad head cold rather than lung issues requiring hospitalization. gandhi says for her, the data are already convincing. i actually don't
think we need any more data than we have now because we would have known by now in the country that has the most prevalent prevalence of omicron. if it was causing severe disease. it just we have had enough time to see that doctors say the bay area more vaccinated, boosted and masked than many other parts of the country may likely be immune from a severe winter surge. though in a few weeks less vaccinated areas could potentially get hit hard. we're going to see not only an awful lot of cases, but an awful lot of hospitalizations, some hospital systems being overwhelmed. and a lot of refrigerator trucks for the dead bodies outside of those hospitals, something doctors agree on the best way to prevent coming months from getting worse is to get vaccinated boosted. and the flu shot as well. greg wigan's ktvu fox two news. while several hockey games have been put on ice as the nhl grapples
with a growing number of covid cases among teams just today, the boston bruins and nashville predators were barred from playing through christmas. that brings the number of teams that have had to postpone games to five. the nhl and its players association have agreed to daily testing and other enhanced protocols to help slow the spread of the virus. they take effect immediately. me what 10. a massive fire erupted at a q v. c distribution center, north carolina just ahead of the holidays, more than 300 employees were reportedly working at the center and rocky mount when the fire was reported around two o'clock this morning. no injuries have been reported. the home shopping network released a statement saying they're working to understand the full impact products and orders and will provide further details to customers as soon as they're available. the cause of the fire is under investigation. nancy pelosi was in the north bay today to announce billions of dollars tapped for wildfire prevention. pelosi was joined by sonoma county democratic congressman mike thompson and
jared huffman. they spoke at coffee park in santa rosa, where that tubbs fire destroyed more than 1400 homes. in 2017, the lawmakers say $3.4 billion will be set aside to specifically address wildfires. the money comes from the president's $1 trillion infrastructure infrastructure package that was signed into law last month. our families are suffering on the orange skies and smoke filled air and this christ is submit crisis demands. urgent at. not just to fight apart, fighting to prevent them in the first. speaker of the house as the legislation will play a critical role in wildfire prevention and climate, resiliency, infrastructure and jobs act also calls for $25 billion to maintain the repair. california highways $4 billion for bridges , 10 billion for transit and 385 million to invest in electric vehicle charging stations throughout the state. well touching effort underway to raise spirits of those impacted
by the calgary fire. quilts are being sent from across the nation to a shop in placerville as gifts for survivors. reporter erin have to as there as those displaced by the fire picked out a new family keepsake that will serve as a symbol of strength and resilience. there's a lot of love, no colorful and ornate thousands of stitches later, these quilts are in the hands of people like kelly diesel v and her son, calvin. we've had a few quotes from great grandparents and grandma's and they all got lost in the fires their family survivors of the kaldor fire. we didn't know for a couple days of our house made it or not. so just the not knowing, um, but, yeah, we lost everything. months later. finally in a rental home . they now have a new keepsake of their own. i wanted to be preserved as well as it can. and maybe pass on to. maybe if i ever have children, so they can have memories of me. these are just some of the hundreds of
quilts sent from across the country. everyone heard about the terrible fires and quilters love to help. gifts to the thousands who lost everything. i think that we get this way. i like this one, each person picking their favorite and had a little cottage that my youngest daughter rented. and we just loved it. i was going to do christmas. it was a shell like. and it was gonna be perfect little, you know, christmas house, debbie godek says she was helping her friend caught in the dixie fire. then weeks later, kaldor took hers overwhelming. it's almost overwhelming. it's almost like. i'm going to wake up and, you know, have my little house and my stuff you know, she says it was the first home she bought on her own. i'm really, really. overtaken by these women and just the community, the support her loved ones had this painting made of her little ski like shall lay something she
says, gives her hope she'll find another place. she can call her own. so someday, when i have another house or how that. and i'll have this. i love it. when you beginning beginning you're right in placerville, erin heft. let help police are asking for the public's help to find a man wanted in connection with a carjacking and armed robbery officers responded to a report of an armed carjacking in the area of plaza drive and admiral callaghan lane just before eight o'clock yesterday morning, investigators say, he pointed a gun at a person forced the victim to drive through the city, then rob the person before taking off in their car. police say the suspect is known to frequent vallejo, oakland and berkeley. he may be driving in one of these cards, a silver 2021 nissan maxima with the nevada license plate 330 p 16, or a ford fusion with the california license plate 80, d r 917. call 911 immediately if you
see him. and it's the season of giving coming up. see how volunteers in san mateo meet that clear today and on the same night that matrix insurrections premieres in san francisco will show you how the movie is helping hype up a new video game technology. at a very weather to get a break from the rain this weekend, but the storm door reopens next we
the x-rays from your urgent care visit look good. just stay off that leg, okay? what about my rec team? i'm all they got. next season. thanks doc. wow, he already scheduled my pt. i love doctors who work with athletes. does he know you tripped over a basketball? that's a sports injury. at kaiser permanente, we make getting care easy so you can get back on the court quicker.
it's great if i can do it to bring the audience along. that's a little more from actor keanu reeves outside the castro theater for tonight's premiere of the matrix resurrections. video game makers are using the new matrix movie to highlight a new version of a way to build a video games. foxes amen. dignam shows us how to experience the world building tool. how do you design a video game? it all starts with the engine, a series of code. the basics of the game are built on. and while there are competitors, there is a top dog. the unreal engine owned by epic games. the minds behind fortnite on real has been in use since 1998 and since then it's developed thousands of video games as well as tv shows and feature films. now there's a new
version of the engine, an epic has created a playable short game called matrix awakens to show it off. matrix actor's cano reeves and carry on mars, lending their talents to show how cleanly and quickly it can render new graphics using characters like neo and trinity and a side by side showing the original matrix films and how the newest engine could render it and it almost gets rid of what's called the uncanny valley where computer generated face still doesn't look like a real person. the playable demo is available for free on the playstation five. xbox series x and s. and that's your insiders cheat code to the unreal engine in new york. ayman dignam fox news. it never gets old. it's always fun, and it's always good to be able to help people who really need us. volunteers make a few pandemic era tweets to a holiday tradition coming up how they're spreading holiday cheer and keeping people safe and ktvu meteorologists mark tamayo will break down when you can expect rain. your complete bay area forecast is coming up next.
the x-rays from your urgent care visit look good. just stay off that leg, okay? what about my rec team? i'm all they got. next season. thanks doc. i love doctors who work with athletes. does he know you tripped over a basketball? that's a sports injury. at kaiser permanente, we make getting care easy so you can get back on the court quicker.
so you can get back than a shot in the arm this holiday season, the event that allen temple baptist church also included a food giveaway. everyone who came to the church was given a free turkey for the holidays. it's always good to have people give to you and you give back to other people, and that's that's what it's all about. the church partnered with the alameda county public health department to host the clinic for county residents. boosters and children's doses were also available. and a team of volunteers in san mateo, also making sure that deserving families are stocked up for the holidays. this samaritan house held at tandy will toy and gift card christmas giveaway. today ktvu is james tourist shows us
how organizers adjusted the event to keep it covid safe. it's a holiday tradition that's gone on for more than 20 years, and organizers tell me it's something that never gets old. it doesn't usually snow at the san mateo events center. but when it does expect santa to welcome hundreds of families, just like a great time for my daughters to get a gifts, and then they enjoy it. i'm so excited. a lot of blessing for everybody. the big giveaway put on by the samaritan house, an organization constantly working to help the less fortunate they offered every child to christmas gifts. and gave parents gift cards and meals. it never gets old. it's always fun, and it's always good to be able to help people who really need us. the event kept its drive through method born during the peak of the pandemic last year. the organization's ceo says more than 120 volunteers played apart today. among them, congresswoman jackie speier. well i think it's smart omicron is real. we're going to see it, you know. kind of perverse