tv Occupied Minds LINKTV November 12, 2012 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
home to jerusalem things have gotten worse and worse. 40 years ago i met david michaelis at link tv and he comes with west jerusalem and i come from west jerusalem, so we come from the same seat. but in reality, two different worlds. >> i was born in jerusalem and i've been living there all my life, since 1945. five years ago i came to the united states to launch a tv channel. and that's how i met jamal dajani. he challenged me to think about solutions that hadn't been discussed until now. and one day we said, well, we should test it on the ground. >> the reality there is very harsh. but why don't we go over there and do it. >> we are here in a bubble. after sometime of working together with jamal i said let's do this in california. you only have to choose in that
neighborhood what kind of latte you want in the morning. >> when i go there i'm always eager to go to my people, to my neighborhood. i want to have the least interaction with the israelis as possible. >> many israelis don't want to know about palestinians. they don't want to reach out. they don't want to cross into streets and neighborhoods where the palestinians live because of a mixture of stereotypes and so on. >> so we decided to go together to visit each other's neighborhoods. and i would talk to israelis and david would talk to palestinians, and together we would face the harsh realities of our shared land. >> growing up in the 1960's, the palestinians just weren't
in the head of anyone. palestinians were different. we knew we had property and it was taken away from us by force. i remember distinctly remembering that this was the wall that separated the east and west jerusalem. and this was no man's land here. >> my family lived in jerusalem for centuries. in 1948 the state was pounded, and for the palestinians this time was called the catastrophe. like many palestinians, my father and his entire family were pushed out of their ancestral home. they moved to a small apartment in east jerusalem because the city was divided into a jewish and an arab city. and in 1967, the six-day war happened when the israelis invaded jerusalem and conquered it. we have lived under the israeli
occupation ever since, always longing to go back to our ancestral homes. >> and my father's story that we left the home that he was born in and his father, etc., always was with us. >> whenever i walk here i feel as though i'm walking with a shiver in my body. like i feel at home. they used to have the stables down there. and actually, this is my father's room right there. for threes three years i would
say easily 50-year-old trees. because my father, when he came here, he said he remember when they left here they were a little bit taller than him. >> i was born the first generation to be born outside our house. to take someone's home is like worse than ripping their heart away from their body. >> i took david to meet my childhood friend. he and i went to the same school. i went afterwards to the united states, and he went to greece to study denyivityry, but he returned to jerusalem -- denyivityry. and he returned to jerusalem and has been living there ever since. >> maybe the people he meets here can have root canal from him. >> he's seen the situation. half of his patients can't even
afford to pay him. but he never turns anyone away. >> and you see some guy coming from russia and he says this is my land, and he takes your land, which you have been here thousands and thousands of years. and somebody comes only a month ago and says this is my land. why? because god gave it to me. >> you stopped believing in god. i'm a christian. i stopped believing in god maybe. imagine if they came into china and you find some jews in china, my god. the number would be about 10 million. where would we put them? look at the country. in seven years, i don't know from america, from argentine narcs i don't know from where, but these are not the palestinians. they don't know the people of the land. so these are the extremists and they are becoming more and
more. 1/3 of the nation are newcomers. newcomers that came during fighting. >> my family lived for many centuries in germany and it was in 1920 when it became impossible for the jews, my mother left for palestine to begin working as a gymnastic teacher in a youth village. she was thinking about the identity of a jew, and she came to her parents and said to them i don't think the germans want us here. i'm looking for another place where we can do something from the beginning. so she came here. i think her motivation saved about 15,000, 20,000 children. and i think it's good that i have some roots here. so this is my home since 1946, and i love the neighborhood.
up there on the corner there's a catholic convent with a huge courtyard where it was very easy to learn to go on bikes. this was from 1946, 1947, the last joint palestinian jewish house. we had a very good relationship with the arabs. and then the war started in 1947. >> all the arabs were pushed out. >> they were pushed out. >> they feel guilty that you are living here? >> no, no. >> you don't feel guilty that this is a home that belongs to a palestinian family and they got pushed out, and you are the recipient, the beneficiary of the blood and sweat and tears. >> i feel that the israeli government owes them, because the israeli government is the one who made this law about people who are not here. and the question is if people are ready to take compensation instead of coming back.
>> the next day david and i separated so that i could go alone into gaza. along with the west bank, gaza is one of the two areas that have been taken by israel in 1967 and has been an occupied territory ever since. >> when i was in gaza david attended an israeli right wing rally in jerusalem. a large movement of religious israelis believe that rather than returning this land, it should be annexed by the state of israel. these people, called settlers, were creating villages in the occupied territories in order to create this reality. the rally was one of many
demonstrations held by the settlers to convince the israeli government not to withdraw from the occupied territory. >> you have not seen an earthquake. >> the devastation of an earthquake. all you have to do is go to -- >> the water here is salty. so the government set up desalination plabts. they cannot just get pressure water. looks like somebody's handy candy. in fact, it's their daily routine. there are hundreds of thousands of people who don't want to get out of gaza. they want to keep them in gaza. and the palestinians is not something they want to relate to. i'm sorry i can't be with you
i was in the army at the time, and when israel first conquered gaza and the west bank i was relieved, because we all believed that we were under siege. but unlike most israelis, i soon realized that israel's victory and occupation were a trap and a curse. soon after i joined a minority left wing movement opposing this occupation, and at today's rally i was surrounded by the people who i fought against for the last 35 years. gaza has 1.3 palestinians and is considered to be the most densely-populated place on earth. it is a total prison. they cannot cross into israel for work or to go to the west bank. and the only exist is through egypt where people spend days at the border. felt like i left to go to
here because this is my home. and then when i go back, i take with me a lot of guilt leaving these people behind. >> when are we going to get to the humane level? people should be incensed. not just the palestinians. we should fight arabs and jews to preserve that. >> my opinion is that both sides, people are tired, fatigued and brainwashed and they will not reeble in a way that they would march? the streets. people are saying i care about my four corners and my garden, and it's out of my control and i don't see this rebellion happening.
>> clearly i'm the optimist of 2002 of us. in fact, i believe that rather than creating two separate states, one israeli and one palestinian, that we should have a one-state solution where everyone shares in the same land and has equal rights. i know i'm in the minority with this idea. still, the situation in the west bank and in israel is so complicated now that you have a scrambled situation, where the israelis are living amongst palestinians, and palestinians are living amongst israelis, and the question really is how to separate the two people. one of the israeli intellectuals that dealt with this binational situation which we are in is the former deputy mayor of jerusalem, meron benvenisti. the binational cond
you're talking about is the condition of the haves and the have-nots. >> absolutely. >> where here, everything is intermingled. but you have one side that controls everything has arrived, and then the other side, it's almost a master and slave relationship. >> you force me to say to you don't discuss with me. you didn't come here to say it's master and slave and i yes say, it's master and slave. ime not in the business of labeling people. >> if i sit across from the table from you and be honest. be honest, talk to you man-to-man and you be honest with me. what's wrong with that? >> i'll tell you. because, see, that is the problem always with palestinians. palestinians always want. >> you're judging me now. you're judging me. you provoked the worst for me always. >> this interview is ruined.
i dictate the rules of the game, not you. >> you see, here is the problem with the relationship. we've been here for thousands of years, you and me. so we have time to talk about it. >> i don't. >> you might have time. i don't. you don't dictate to me what time i have and what i don't. you came to me in my house. so at least be polite, ok? >> well, that went rather well. >> well, do you think i blew it? do you think he'll see me again? >> i think we should really go back and see him. what do you think about that? >> i think we have to give it some time and come back and call him again. but i definitely don't want to go inside his hole. so you better arrange that somewhere neutral. >> it's part of that coming here to the empty land, or the land with no people and all
these things, and now it's -- >> most believe in the justice of the courts, they put the blame on others. we are always like -- and they are attempt together destroy us. if we are faced with annihilation we can invoke all the memories of the jewish for the past 2,000 years. and then the palestinians become different type of gentiles. now, you can blame the israelis. but you can also blame palestinians for allowing enough justifications for the
creation of that mess. maybe they were misled. maybe they had no other choice. but this is what you have. you have enough building blocks to create the myth of israeli -- >> were the palestinians misled during the four years? and how are they coping with their fears? we went to see a person who fought for victims without a future. >> i had my cousin killed by the israelis. and we were supposed to have a party here. we lit candles for all those who passed away to give us
life. so we lit candles. and we cried there. then we came back home, we danced. we also cried again. and for us, that was the resistance. >> the regression in the last three years has been incredible in the relationship between palestinians and the israelis. is there any way that you found to go to the heart of israelis and tell them don't be afraid of me? >> i don't believe in this fear. we are the people who are afraid of them. they are the occupation. we are the occupied. so the discourse that was played in the media and played in their minds by their leaders, i don't accept it. they talk about their security, but they never thought of my security. >> more than any other time that i went back to jerusalem, i found people living in fear and in suspicion of everyone
who entered the coffee shop. even security where jerusalem became the world capital of suicide bombing. of the victims suicide bombing is a doctor, who, in may of 2003, was standing behind a young palestinian girl in a supermarket who blew herself up, causing him multiple injuries. and he lost sight in one of his eyes. i was the first palestinian he
agreed to talk to and discuss with me his feelings, his own fear, and to tell his story. >> i remember her. i remember standing with her long hair, her blue dress, but i couldn't imagine that someone is coming to kill herself and to kill as many people as possible. and as i always said, that kind of person i really don't forgive. >> you see a lot of difference between a general or a commander deciding to drop a 2,000-pound bomb at the neighborhood to assassinate one person, knowing, knowing, knowing that this is a residential neighborhood and the likelihood of killing and maiming civilians is almost
guaranteed. >> the answer should be forbidden. but if i kill not you, i kill something and i hide always with 10 kids around, and then i go and kill you there and i can put the 10 kids in the neighborhood, and then i kill you again and i put 10 kids around mere, what would you expect me to do? >> so you justify that? >> i just want to tell you one thing. the answer is no. >> even for palestinian terrorists knowing that they were terrorists as a doctor, as a person, i did my best, and now there were two terrorists. and if it was necessary to do again to terrorists, i would do it. she's 20 years old.
nothing she's seen in life. and then she's sent to kill. you see it as a part of a struggle? >> no. i said for me killing is wrong. i mean, i've heard all kinds of justifications. i can take as a german and someone that knows about politics, i can tell you what some people say, suicide bombing, this is what they say, is the poor man's weapon. >> i know, i know what they say. >> they say israel can send something like this, missile, and instead of the missile, they use human being. >> the military says it's courageous, it's not what i'm told that i'm going to attack 70 virgins. you don't believe everything. >> no, no, don't worry. >> jamal is so happy. >> no, no.
>> for me the only solution is a one-step solution. because the situation now -- >> how one step? >> one-step solution. one person, one vote. >> where? >> all over the land. >> jamal, you don't differentiate in what is needed and what is -- what is needed is love and peace. but we are not so good. >> i was with kahlil. let's go here. >> we were like what i would say -- >> let's listen to the music. >> i think i'm going to come back and crash that guitar.
had to pass many roadblocks, tunnels that could only be traveled by the army and the settlers. the clear separation underscored the limited freedom of movement of the palestinians versus the unlimited access of the israelis. thought that it would be important to meet one of the leading gunmen of the palestinians. he was the leader of a brigade and agreed to see us in an area that saw some of the worst fighting between palestinian resistance and the israeli army. we met him in one of the many
palestinian extremist. but what about israeli extremists i've never been inside these settlements that the israelis have been building all over the territories. so we decided to visit a leader of the settlement movement and someone david interviewed at the right wring rally in jerusalem. >> changing times here. 28 years, the majority of the people in the west bank are now
jewish. and this was our goal. we are so desperate for peace. but the first step is to stopping the devil. only after stopping the devil, of course, the blocks, then we can move, of course. and then we will have the opportunity to work together and look for the solution. >> just to tell you, they say stop the occupation. that's what they say. they remove the occupation. >> part of the thinking is that everyone said like children, you be first, you be first. let's try together. >> when the palestinians would stop the terror, i will be the
fighter to have the palestinians human rights. but we are making a comparison between our rights and theirs. because what they're doing to my settlement here, making life. >> is it possible for you to think that one day we can have a binational state? because i know you talk about a jewish state and so forth, and this is the core of zionists. but i'm not part of the core of zionists. >> i have a suggestion for you. and my suggestion is, and this is a great compromise that i'm giving up on the other side of jordan. >> you don't have jordan. >> yes. >> you don't have it. >> we are giving up because this is originally part of the
lands of israel. and we are giving up on this part. and i'm telling you that your inspiration -- your aspiration can be accomplished there. but you can live here and you will get here all the human rights. but not not your aspiration. ok us three hours just to get through the checkpoint letting us kneel kahlil, hebron. this neighborhood has been taken over by jewish settlers and they are protected by this
check poibt here, this israeli checkpoint, 24 hours a day. i don't know how people do it on a day-to-day basis, but i'm getting very frustrated. >> i've been here since the settlement made life. that was his whole story. we decided to go to hebron, the palestinian city in which the settlements have taken over a whole neighborhood and pushed out the palestinian majority. there we visited the home of a long-time residents and one of the few homeowners who has resisted a takeover by the settlers. an israel ya soldier who had
45% of them witnessed the beating and the killing of their fathers. they immediately switch from the helpless father, who could not protect them, to somebody who is more thoughtful. jews who are armed with machine guns and military jeeps victimize these children, and when we allow the children to play this game as part of the therapy, many of the children prefer to play the role of the jew in the game because that is power.
>> i asked to speak with prime minister netanyahu. i wrote to him five times. and then he doesn't want to speak with me. in the letters i wrote i want you to look me in the eye and to tell me that my son died for a reason. i want you to look at me. he never had the courage to do it. i feel a responsibility to help other children. i'm a kind of pilgrim who goes around and says, look, this has to be stopped. when you leave here you can forget the slums of italy. you can think you're in new york or milan or in paris. most of the people have televisions, and if i haven't
drove on purpose, i think i would be in club immediate in tel aviv. >> does that throw any parallel to you with the building of this wall and they let the jewish population in there? >> let's look for who is more guilty, who did worse things, and i really don't care. i think -- i even don't think that the people who were killed in the holocaust were all good people. they were just victims, not good and not bad. victims. and the palestinians at this moment are victims. they're not better than me. they're just victims. and i don't want them to be victims. but why compare it? >> i don't compare it. my problem with it is i think if you've gone as a generation
through such suffering why you don't sympathize with the new victims. >> i do. >> not you personally, but i'm just saying this is to me very troubling. because, you know, you meet people all the time that tell you, offense, my grandfather died mere, my aunt died there. and i'm like, are you blind? do you see when they build the the wall, the germans also built a wall and create a ghetto. >> you know, the son knows it hurts. but most of the children have been hiten by their parents, they hit their children. most of the men that have seen their fathers hitting their wives, then hit their wives as well. they have been victims, and then they are the ones that make someone else victims. so you don't know from suffering.
>> before ending our trip we knew we had to go to the wall itself in order to understand the latest phase of this ongoing separation. we went to a suburb of jerusalem where the wall cut through that village and divided it into two halves, separating family members from each other, preventing people from going to their places of work, and children from going to their schools. i think it's s you could slice a neighborhood into two and believe that you can stop people from going to prayer or shopping and just bashed wire and cement --
barbed wire and cement are going to create more hatred. wa about was part of israel's largest national project since the beginning of the occupation four decades ago. they are maintaining that they are building this wall to prevent suicide bombing and it's supported by 85% of israel's population. everyone in israel understands that it's bound to become a future border. the problem with the wall is it does not really follow the 1967 border. it cuts deep into palestinian territory and what would become the future palestinian state. us
took us on a tour to explain to us the thinking behind the building of these walls. >> the problem today between left and right is that security is mixed with politics. a guy from the neighborhood was sitting right here waiting for the bus and he was stabbed to death. and i can assure you that the one who stabbed him to death did not come from this arab neighborhood, he came from somewhere in the west bank or from the east bank. but the fact that he was stabbed by an arab or the people who live here, they couldn't care less if the arab is yellow, green, comes from africa. for them an arab is an arab.
in september 2000 the palestinians started to shoot through the jewish neighborhoods, and the authorities had to protect the kindergarten over here, and they put up this wall put up by the neighborhood council. but nevertheless, it's quite ugly. but if they shoot from the other side toward the kindergarten, what other measure you can take in order to protect the children? >> before returning home we went to visit a palestinian farmer whose life was devastated when half of his land was taken by the israeli army to accommodate the bending of the wall. -- the building of the wall. majority of his land and
>> i feel like i haven't found any anchor for the light at the end of the tunnel. is there any chance for people to believe that there is something else? >> i used to have a speech that said you're looking, you're looking, and it could be the solution somewhere. you totally don't foresee. >> yeah. the wall of berlin came down, south africa turned upside down and unimagined things can
happen. >> yeah. >> but where they're saying about driving in israel, don't be right, be clever. because if you enter and you say i'm right, i drive in, you get into such a collision, this is -- it's better to have a strategy, to be clever, what do you do when you enter this next intersection. >> i think the solution is on the israeli side. always the solution is with the person with the power and the control.
>> the way i have found is this project, which is called save the children. saving palestinian children who have every right to lead. if no aid is able to get to them, they die. they have almost 600 children. israeli and palestinian doctors have worked on them. reconciliation is working together. i don't think we need reconciliation. i think we work together as if there was already peace. i hope that things can change and i always believe that the power is in the people. so they can make the change. and it depends on that. >> i think that i hope we can