anchor: hello, and a very warm ."lcome to "quadriga it all began with donald trump's first foreign tour, at the end of which he met with an clash with you and nato leaders. angela merkel came upp with unprecedenteted comments, saying europe can no longer rely on the united states and it is time for europe to take its own fate into its own hands. it looks like we might be witnessing a watershed moment in u.s./european relations, and our

merkeln this week is -- and trump, is it a transatlantic rake up? i am joined here by eric of the l.a. times. he says even if merkel concludes that the trump administration is not a reliable partner, she will this thing was between the trump administration and america, the rest of america. i think. with us is alan post, whose says the transatlantic partnership is more important than merkel or trump. a warm welcome to a specialist online.politics, site she believes with you with president trump, we have seen a shift in the transatlantic partnership, but this relationship is based on far more than the u.s. president alone. all threem welcome to of you. eric, i would like to begin with you. as i said, it has been a tumultuous week in international

politics with donald trump potentially isolating the u.s. by pulling out of the paris climate agreement. how isolated is america at this point in time. -- this point in time? way from thatlong being that serious. he is making mistakes. he is causing a lot of damage, but as we mentioned, the united states and europe have a much more important and long-lasting relationship and that will not be destroyed by some unfortunate summit meetings in brussels. anchor: would you a agree withh that? guest: i agree to some extent, but this is a very bad time for u.s./european relationships. i agree this will not be the breakup of this long-standing relationship, but i think it is a lot about looks and appearances, and donald trump has made so many mistakes, and i think it is a very dangerous point. is a shift, and

not to the better. talking about angela merkel's comments, anna norma's change in political rhetoric. -- an enormous change in political rhetoric. >> it was a big shift for her. she is normally calm, and cautious. for her to send up -- to start talking about this and we need to look out after our own interests, it was a shift for merkel and it is newsworthy. a lot of papers read about this and it was an important shift, but it is not the end of the world. hisp responded by saying -- spokesman said it is good the europeans will start setting up for themselves. there is nothing wrong with that. trump seemed irritated by going on twitter and using all caps to say that germany has a massive trade surplus, so when trump goes to all caps, you know he is probably upset. anchor: you mentioned it was a

tense speech that angela merkel gave in the heart of bavaria. what shesten into exactly said before we bring in alan. the times in which we could fully rely on others are over, to a certain extenent. as i have learned in t the lastt few days. i can only say that we as europeans have to take our faith into our own hands. >> how do you see this? why now? >> it is amazing, isn't it? this is the csu, which has spent the past two years -- >> the bavarian wing of angela merkel's own party -- >> which spent the last two years attacking her. trump bashing goes down incredibly well in germany at

the moment. she has got the csu, which is traditionally pro-european, onboard. they have forgotten all the the refugees. she is fighting an election against the spd in september and against marshaled, a pro-european candidate. she has taken the wind out of his sales. -- you know, it is campaign rhetoric. she is in campaign mode. it is beinghis how understood in the u.s. and international media? why such provocation? alan: the washington post is anti-trump. allrnational media is anti-trump. the point is, what trump said in brussels --'s famous street in caps -- was correct.

america has a large trade deficit in germany. if germany spent what it is supposed to spend on the fence, and if it bought that stuff in america, the trade deficit would not be so great, and the germans -- "you americans cannot build cars." that is not the point. it was pretty good that trump told them where they could -- erik: tom has a very important -- trump has a very important point about the 2%. those who know what nato is will say you have a point. why can't the nato partners spend what they promised on the fence? the united states has been spending wealth on defense. why can't the europeans do that as well? west germanyer, was defended by nato and the

united states, so now it is time for the rich countries in europe to spend what they promised on defense. what is the problem? rieke: you might have a point. i mean, the way he made that point, the way he acted with all these world leaders, i think it shows a clear neglect of transatlantic relations and importance, and i think it was clearly devoted to his constituency at home, what he did in brussels and italy. appealing tos been his constituency in west virginia and texas. that is his audience. europe might be shocked at trump's behavior in brussels, and it was not anything to be proud about as an american, but that is the way he has been acting all along. >> and now merkel is playing to her audience. we all know who trump is. he is a bully. he is a bull in a china shop. the second most important nation in the western alliance -- if germany start playing the same

game, i think this really is bad -- to use trump's word -- and actually, stupid. repair these.lay o merkel's allies were trying to tone the wall thing down and say it was not such a big deal. we should look at this in the prism of the political campaign. the spd has been sounding more and more anti-american as we get closer to the election, and merkel needed to watch her flank on that side, and put a marker there that she is not as pro drums as some germans have been a she is trying to get close to trump. she has said positive things about him. she is exasperated and gave up. >> it has not worked. she has tried hard with ivanka trump in berlin and she has tried hard to make a connection with the trump government, and it was not working.

she made her comment. i doubt merkel will say anything quite so explosive as that again. she said it once and it is probably enough to be will see what the spd does if the election gets closer. alla suggested that this is alln opportunism. is it american basheing? is it stirring up anti-americanism in german society? rieke: that is the problem with that kind of talk. it stirs everything up and i do not think -- i do not think she is trying to build anti-americanism. everyone is agreeing to that on every side of the polilitical spectrum, but i think you have to be very careful. she made a good point. i do not think you should tolerate that trump is a bully and he acts the way he acted in brussels and italy, so i think she made a point.

i think she made a mistake in how she made that point, and it is point and that after the election -- it is important that after the election, she focus on the relationships. there are so many different kinds of movements and relationships, and i think and germans have to know that trump is not america. donald trump might be the torrent u.s. president -- might be the current u.s. president, but he is not america. there are different parts of america. there are still people that value transatlantic relationships and that will cling to that despite being with donald trump in the white house. >> nevertheless, there has been a lot of talk about a standoff, a transatlantic race to power. powerer if there is a vacuum, imitation, and major tension between trump and merkel . it can only be vladimir putin who is rubbing his hands. >> theoretically. i sleep well at night because i think the institutions in germany and nato and the e.u.

and in washington are still working closely together. i don't think there has been a big breach or problem. those things are still working, and i think they will continue working because they had been in place for a long time, and it is in the mutual interest that they continue working. it is not the end of the world. there is a difficult american president, it will be a turbulent period, but it will not be the end of the world. >> no risk of a stubborn streak in trump saying "take your fate youour own hands, then defend your cells beginning three weeks on thursday?" there is limited to the e.u. and the europeans are uniting. there is nothing wrong with that. the europeans are looking out after their own interest. that is what the united states has been saying from day one. areica's interests -- we pursuing america's interests. if the europeans do that, that is legitimate. i don't think any president would have a problem with that. >> this is starting with obama,

his pivot to asia. this was not just the, you know, sort of outburst. this was a strategic decision. the europeans have been forewarned by the president they liked most. i think they should have taken obama at his word. pivots to asia, he neglected our most important ally, in our region. we should have known then -- and she should have said what she said then. it is easy to--trump -- it is easy to bash trump. that is how it is going to be. we are going to have to look after this part of the world more ourselves. fine. alan: let us do it. >> does that mean that there is some substance to this? the post-world war ii security architecture is being -- is

likely now to be modified? do you sleep well at night? >> if i did not, it would not be because of mr. trump. here i have said it hundreds of times. europe needs to spend more on defense. europe needs to do more to protect its own interests, its own borders, in the ukraine, in the border states. look at what happened to syria with a solid driving out the millions of people who became refugees, and so on and so on. europe needs to do more. that has not changed through anything mr. trump has said or missed merkel said. -- mrs. merkel said. america needs to have europe watch what is happening -- the e.u. to watch what is happening in its major market, europe. not having i am

about values. forget values. interests. we have the same interests. rieke: but there is all those issues of climate change, trade. there are so many in this globalized world, so many issues where it would be highly dangerous as america gets more and more protectionist antron trump goes forward with his america first strategy. that would be a loss for americans and europe. >> there are a lot of voices that theactly that, united states cannot pull out of its agreement, needs to stay engageged, will stay engaged. it is not like there is one government determining everything. it is a very lively and vibrant discussion going on in the united states about that. i do not see these dangers. i think europeans sometimes get a little bit exaggerated, the sky is falling. a lot of thoughtful people in the united states talking exactly along these lines. we need to stay engaged and involved. >> ok. we are talking about tensions that exist, and have heightened

tensions between the united states and germany in the last couple of weeks. it all began to emerge as part of donald trump's visit to europe. a nine day, five country visit that included plenty of controversial members. >> donald trump in saudi arabia. he was welcomed like royalty, and signed a weapons deal worth nearly $110 billion. time to celebrate. pres. trump: into our various countries. >> in brussels, he said nato countries -- pres. trump: are still not paying what they should be paying. >> the president believes they should pay more for their own defense. pres. trump: this is not fair to the people and taxpayers of the united states. >> and of the g-7 summit in sicily, six of the leaders walked to a photo op. the president followed behind in a golf cart. determined toeems

go his own way, regardless of the consequences, so o under his leadership, can the u.s. remain a reliable partner for europe? shove, where donald trump appeared to push -- i mean, he did push. why did no one say anything? i don't know. >> it is an important question. would you have said something if you saw donald trump pushing the next guy? >> i don't know. isi say -- by the way, this not a waiter, this is the president of montenegro? alan: donald trump would say "what?" i'm sure he does not know where the country is the that is a problem to us. montenegro is a big deal, but to america, it is not a big deal. >> 600,000 people live in montenegro. it is not even a nato member yet. rieke: that does not even matter. you cannot just bully your way

through a group of people. you cannot. i mean, it does not matter -- excuse my language. i'm sorry. >> three words. rieke: sorry. >> we are talking about the menace, right? rieke: and i just lost my good trump, youause with cannot help but lose your good manners because you do not behave like this. >> as a journalist, it was fun to write about that incident because it was incredible. it has been re-shown millions of times around the world. it probably makes his voters in west virginia and texas very happy. they are glad to see him being a tough guy on the stage like that. often a growing happy because the world now knows where montenegro is. [laughter] >> easy for him to talk about. is it fun to o write about him s a journalist, to look into stories where we see donald trump clearly feels more comfortable among the saudi arabia leadership than he does with european leaders? >> yeah, that is a symbol that came out of this trip, that he

was treated well in the middle east, and in europe he had a rough time. again, he thinks about his voters. he likes the applause on the campaign trail. he likes the cheers from those red states that love him, and they still love him. they do not care that he acted like him politely there. he gave sort of the picture of the ugly american riding around in a golf cart instead of walking the 400 meters in italy. that is what his voters love. abe also took a golf cap, i think i read somewhere. we have had some shopping, some swearing on the show. that is about to donald trump. there are people in europe who hope that donald trump -- that , theensions he created provocations will unite the europeans. let us listen to him chastising european nato leaders. memberrump: 23 of the 28 nations are still not paying what they should be paying and what they are supposed to be

paying for their defense. is not fair to the people and taxpayers of the united states. said just a short while ago that the europeans must now take charge of their own defense spending, that is what politicians say, and they have been saying it for 20 years. it has not happened one bit, really. say, he has a point. it is not the first american president to make this point. kennedy, --f the germans say they are occupying. in the end, they have to cough up because they realize that they were defending us, and occupying us. you can go through this with ronald reagan. the same problem.

and he is right. mr. trump is right. you cannot have an alliance in another alliance. we are relying on america to do more than its fair share while we reap the benefits without having to pay for the defense and sit back and americans."pid quite frankly, the ugly american has shown us where we get off, and he is right. the way hewkward presented that in brussels. it is embarrassing as an american. the words for it were spot on. i think his voters love it when he says that and people who do not like trump, they say he has got a .3 why does the united's pace a much of the defense for europe when they do not to pay for it -- he has got a point. why do the united states pays a much of the defense for europe? shet is interesting what

has to say about this. she says the e.u. is not a military alliance and does not want to become one. >> but he is talking about nato. >> but angela merkel is saying that the europeans need to pull together. due respect, she does not know what she is talking about. of course, the e.u. is a military alliance. in the indianns ocean. have battle groups, e.u. battle groups which work together. french, german cooperation, and so on. that, ands not know she is supposed to be our coordinator for foreign policy in the e.u., you know, i feel like using one of your words. it is incredible. of course the e.u. is also a military alliance, and has been for at least 10 years. >> but everything we are talking about -- it is a feckless

ambition. you know, angela merkel is saying it is time to take our faith into our own hands. this point in time, a pipe dream and nothing more. why is she saying it? if they cannot walk the walklk, why are they talking the talk? rieke: you can always try to do the walk, actually. i mean, we have talked about this to a great extent, that she said to a clear constituency -- she has elections coming up. i think it is a good point to say europe and the european union should have more self-confidence in the relationship with america. i think there is nothing wrong with that. it is the question of all of this for the americans and the europeans, howow the rhetoric i. i think trump has a point to say that we do a lot for defense, on spending, but you do not. how do you do that? do you do that in front of a new

building, having all the world leaders behind you, looking dumb? or do you do it behind closed doors? europe and the european union should be confident. do you talk with macron? both sides have a point. the looks and the rhetoric are bad. may of the bearing the germans for what will happen after the election. lot inwill have to do a france. german taxpayers will have to cough up in some way to support, you know, the whole reform of the european union. maybe eurobond or something like that. also, i think that there is going to be -- macron has talked about an initiative for more european defense. that is going to be paid for by germany, and imply that we do a

whole lot more there. you know, i think she is preparing the ground slowly and will be able to say "as i said back in so-and-so, we are going ,o be able to do this that, and the other." >> we are talking about a secret plan between the french and the germans. does it exist? >> do not know. [laughter] >> they have not told you? >> they have not for me, either. >> germany and france need to work together. germany needs to open his wallet a little bit and be less -- germans essentially leading europe. does europe want to be led by the germans? >> i have lived in germany from us 30 years. germany has slowly been taking more and leadership, -- more and more leadership. it used to be the german/french leadership. now, it is the german leadership. the germans are growing more comfortable being leaders.

i think europe is more comfortable. problemed states has no with germany showing more leadership. it is a positive thing. this will trump crisis is a good thing for europe, galvanizing europe, and showing them they need to work together, come together. we need to come together. it is about time. merkel has -- look at what merkel said she. -- merkel said. a transatlantic breakup. is there a breakup in the making? >> no. rieke: no, but i think it is a rather dangerous affair. >> i tend to agree. erik: it is a turbulent time. [laughter] erik: no breakup coming. >> thank you very much. thank you for joining me on "quadriga." to come back next week. bye-bye.

[drums beating] [animals screeching] announcer: ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the best-selling author of "brown is the new white," steve phillips. [applause] steve: good morning. audience: good morning. steve: i'm delighted to be here. this is my first bioneers conference, so i'm honored to be with youou here. [cheering and applause] and i'm particularly delighted to be able to introduce the keynote speaker vien truong. her bio and all of her accomplishments are online, and you can read that, and they're part of the program, so i won't