tv Democracy Now LINKTV April 11, 2019 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
04/11/19 04/11/19 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from pacifica, this is dedemocracy now! "youou can resist.t." ththe are the words of wikileaks foundedejulian assange as hehe s arreststed in london thisis mor. brititish police c carrying himt of the upperer door and embmbasy whwhere he has -- ecuadorn embasswhere he h lived s sce 2012 aftereeking a asylum.
he has long warned his prosecution was a threat to press freedom. threatleaks stands under of us otis the frereedom of expressisionn the health of all of our s siety. amamy: we will spepeak to membef ilya assange's legal team as the storm develops. then to sudan. sudanese protesters are celebrating after reports that the sudanese president has been relieved of his duties and under house arrest, ending his 30 year rule. it is unclear what is happening as the army, the sudanese army, prepares to address the nation. we will get the latest. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. wiwikileaks founder julian assae has been arrested.
just hours ago, british police forcibly removed assange from the ecuadorian embassy in london where he has taken asylum since 2012. in a statement, police saidd assange was arrested "on wawarrant issueded by westminstr magiststrates' c court on 29 j e 2012, for failing to surndnder to the court." wikileakaks said via t twitter t british police entered the embassy at the invitation of the ecuadorian ambassador, and that ecuador terminated his political asylum "in violation of internatational law." last t thursday, wikikileaks wad assange y soon be moved, tweetiti, "a high vel source withinin the ecuadororian states told wikikileaks that t julian assange will be expelled witnn hours toto days using g the #inapapepers offshore scscandala pretetext and thatat it alreadys an agreement w with the k.k. for s arrest." earlier r in the wee ecuador's
president lenin morereno accused assange ofof leaking pririvate photos of his family and viviolating the terms of his asylylum but denied the claim mf an immmminent expulsion after te tweets from wikileaks. julian assange took refuge in the ecuadorian embassy in 2012 fearing possible extradition by british authorities to the u.s., where hehe could face prprosecun under the espionage act. british authorities confirmed -- british authorities say assange would not be extradited to a country that has the death penalty. we'll have more on the arrest after headlines. in sudan, protesters broke out in celebration after news broke that president omar al-bashir
has been forced to step down, reportedly deposed by military forces, ending his three-decades long authoritarian rule. the news comes after months of protests demanding al-bashir's resignation. protesters have been staging a massive sit-in in the capital, khartoum since saturday. over the weekend, demonstrators gathered outside the military headquarters, which is also the residence of al-bashir, amid reports of teargassing and stun grenade attacks by security forces. reports on the ground say some soldiers began siding with protesters, signaling a loss of military support for al-bashir. rights groups say at least 50 people have been killed since december, while the government has been accused of jailing hundreds of activists and critics of the president, shutting down press outlets, and barring foreign reporters from covering the protests. the sudanese military has set up a transitional military council to rule the country for two years according to a televised statement by sudan's minister of defense just minutes ago. we will have more on that story
later in the broadcast. at a senate hearing wednesday, attorney general william barr told lawmakers he believes intelligence agencies spied on trump's 2016 presidential campaign and that he was ordering a review into the handling of a counter intelligence investigation into the trump campaign and possible russian cocollusioion. democratic lawmakers said that barr's statements demonstrated partisanship and loyalty to the president and that he should provide evidence to back up his claims. house speaker nancy pelosi told reporters she does not trust the attorney general william barr. >> let me just say how very, very dismaying and disappointing that the chief law enforcement officer of our country is going off the rails yesterday and today.
he is attorney general of the united states of america, not the attorney general of donald trump. amy: thehe acting director of immigration anancustoms enforcement roron vitello is the latest homeland security officialal to leave the agenenc. the announcement came wednesday and follows a string of high-profile exits, starting with dhs head kirstjen nielsen's ouster on sunday. the departmental purge is said be part of a plan by trump adviser stephen miller to steer the administration toward even more hard-line immigration policies.. last week, trump w withdrew vitello's nomination to head ice, indicating he wasn't tough enough for the role. meanwhile, politico reported wednesday trump is considering a former head of an anti-immigrant hate group to lead u.s. citizenship and immigration services. julie kirchner previously worked at the federation for american immigration reform, which espouses white supremacist views and backs reforms to reduce
non-white immigration. it has been labeled a hate group by the southern poverty law center. kirchner would replace lee francis cissna, who is reportedly in line to be ousted as part of the ongoing purge at dhs. congressional democrats introduced legislation to undo president trump's anti-muslim travel ban, as well as his efforts to block asylum seekers and refugees from entering the country. the no ban act would revise the immigration and nationality act, imposing certain standards for restricting entry and giving more power to lawmakers to oversee or reject discriminatory bans. the act aims to o circumvent the supreme court's decision l last year to reinstate trump's travel ban. the aclu welcomed the legislation, saying -- "this president has continually claimed broad executive powers to target muslims and other marginalized communities he
deems unworthy. while no congressional action can erase the pain inflicted on muslim communities by the muslim ban, congress can put in place standards and checks and balances to prevent other communities from enduring that same pain in the future." in israel, prime minister benjamin netanyahu celebrated his electoral victory wednesday after his main rival, former military chief benny gantz, conceded. he will serve a record breaking fifth term in office. netanyahu's likud is expected to form a coalition with other right-wing parties that would most likely give them a majority in the 120-seat knesset. president trump congratulated netanyahu on wednesday. pres. trump: everybodydy said yu can't have peace in the middle east with israel and the palestinians. i think we have a chance. i think we now have a better chance with bibi having won.
just days before the election, amy:just days before the election, netanyahu vowed to annex illegal israeli settlements in the west bank if he won. meanwhile haaretz reported , wednesday an israeli pr company boasted on social media about its role in placing 1200 hidden cameras at polling stations in arab neighborhoods, taking credit for the low turnout in those areas. in india, polls open today in a highghly anticipated parliamenty election that is widely seen as a refeferendum on prime minister narendra modi who is seeking a second term in office. india is the world's largest democracy with 900 million eligible voters. the voting will take place in seven phases through may 19 in . modi's hindu nationalist bharatiya janata party, or bjp, won a landndslide victctory in . his main opponent is rahul
gandhi's congress party. gandhi's father, grandmother and great grandfather haveve all served as s prime minister. modi's government has been criticized for a crackdown on civil society, targeting political opponents, journalists, human rights activists, lawyers, and writers. human rights groups have also raised the alarm on attacks agaiainst vuvulnerable p popula, especially dalits and muslims. just two days before britain's second scheduled departure from the european uninion, eu leaders agreed wednesday to grant britain an additional extension to avoid a no-deal brexit, giving prime minister theresa may and british lawmakers until october 31 to come up with a deal that all parties could agree to. this means britain will most likely have to take part in european parliament elections in -- next month, which may has sought to avoid. m may was warned by european leadershihip -- europen union n leadership not to waste time. it's unclear which direction
lawmakers will go next after months of dead-end debate and failed votes on a number of brexit measures. back in the united states suspect has been arrested over , a the recent fires that destroyed three historically black churches in louisiana. the first blaze occurred at the end of last month and the two others last week, all in the same community, about 30 minutes north of lafayette. authorities say the suspect is a 21-year-old man and the son of a st. landry parish deputy sheriff. police are expected to release more details later today. house lalawmakers passed the sae ththe internet act wednesday, ia victory for digital rights advocates who have been fighting to restore obama-era net neutrality rules that were gutted by the trump administration. the legislation would bar telecom companies from blocking, throttling, or otherwise interfering with internet access according to how much customers pay or based on the websites they favor.
in a statement following wednesday's vote, internet freedom group free press said -- "the energy behind this bill came from the grassroots, not big companies, but there were plenty of industry lobbyists trying to sink it. the overwhelming show of support for the save the internet act proves how important and popular net neutrality has become." despite widespread public support, the bill now faces a tough battle in the majority-republican senate, where leader mitch mcconnell earlier threatened to block voting on the act. and independent senator bernie sanders unveiled his new medicare for all proposal wednesday. fellow senators and 2020 hopeful elizabeth warren, kirsten gillibrand, cory booker and kamala harris are backers of the legislation. the updated bill adds new provisions to cover long-term care and would provisions to -- and would eliminate premiums, deductibles and co-pays. private insurance would only be
able to cover elective surgery not otherwise covered by the government. this is bernie sanders addressing press and supporters wednesday. >> we should not tolerate a system which allows the top 10 drug companies to make $69 billion in profits last year while at the same time -- and this is really unbelievable, one out of five americans who get a prescription from their doctor cannot even afford to fill that prescription. amy: senator sanders said he would try to pass the bill via the budget reconciliation process if he wins the presidency, allowing him to circumvent the usual 60-vote requirement for passing such a legislation. the bill currently has 14 co-sponsors in the senate. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. nermeen: and i'm nermeen shaikh. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world.
wikileaks founder julian assange has been arrested in london. just hours ago, british police forcibly removed assange from the ecuadorian embassy in london, where he has been living since 2012. vivideo s shows assangege sayine u.k. mustt resist asase was beig arrested. >> we must resist. you can resist. nermeen: london metropolitan police said in a statement that assae was arrested "on a warrant issusued by weminster magistrates' court on n 29 jun 2012, for failing to srender to the c court." wikikileaks reportrted via twitr that b british policice enterede emssy y at the invititation of e ecuauadorian ambassador anththat says that ecuador termineded his
political asylum in violation of international law. julianan assange took refuge in the embassy in 2012 fearing possible extradidition by britih auauthorities toto the u.s. whee coululd face prosecution under e espionage act. one of assange's attorneys, jennifer robinson, tweeted this morning -- "just confirmed: #assange has been arrested not just for breach of bail conditions but also in relations to a u u.s. extradition request." press freedom advocates condemned assange's arrest. amy: julian assange u.s. attorney said, "it is bitterly disappointing that a country what allow someone to whom it has extended citizenship and asylum to be arrested in its embassy. first and foremost, we hope the u.k. will now give mr. assange access to proper health care,
which he has been denied for seven years. once his health care needs have been addressed, the u.k. courts will meet to resolve what appears to be in a president it effort by the united states seeking to extradite a foreign journalist to face criminal charges for publishing truthful information." that is julian assange's u.s. attorney. the head of reporters without borders tweeted -- "targeting assange because of wikileaks provision of information to journalists that was in the public interest would be a punitive measure and would set a dangerous precedent for journalists or their sources that the u.s. may wish to pursue in future." nsa whistleblower edward snowden tweeted -- "images of ecuador's ambassador inviting the u.k.'s secret police into the embassy to drag a publisher of -- like it or not -- award-winning journalism out of the building are going to end up in the history books. assange's critics s may cheer, t this is a dadark moment fofor ps
freeeedom." that i is the tweet o of edward snsnowden. we begin n today's show with renata avila, a member of julian assange's legal team. thank you so much for running us. this has just taken place, the arrest, the dragging out of julian assange from the embassy by the metropolitan police in britain. can you tell us what you understand are the grounds for his arrest and why the ecuadorianan embassy a allow the british police i into the embaby to d do it? >> thank you for having me, amy, thank you for all of the solidarity you are swing as s a journalistst. on,op of f all of this goining i have seen ththe lack of solidaririty from journalists al of the world, and that is making the situation worse. fifirst, the arrest breachehes internatioional law on so many
levels. as a latatin american, i canan y i'm ashamed of the blatant didisregard for -- which isis a trtraditioion of latin a americf prpriding and defendingng the institutution of asylum. what happens nexext, it is whate suspspecd. it seems micichael ratner r was leadining the arrest of julian assange i in 2010. this is what we e predicted woud happen. it was nothing else but a secure i iour so-called democracy. it was c cfirmed by y scotland yard that hihis arrest is s not connececd with the bail breach, it is connecected with thehe extraditioion request. aututrities i just t know first t confirmed in swsweden ad
ststockholm and d they confirmr. it was n n consulted with them it is an extradition request of by the u.s. justice department. nermeen: can you explain, is it in any way legally justified or legal at all for ecuador to rescind hihis asylum in n this ? andt is comompletely legal adding insult to injury, julian was granted ecuadoriann nationality. it is not only legagal forr inteternational law, it is constitutialal law inn ecuador. multiple, multitilayer violation of human rights and constitutional rights of julian. amy: glenn greenwald is joining us on the phone. renata avila is joining us from
belgrade. she is one of julian assange's lawyers. glenn greenwald, one of the founding editors of the intercept. glenn, your response to the arrest of julian assange, his being dragged out by britisish policece from the ececuadorian embassy today? >> i thinknkhe most important fact is the arresest warrant, according to asassange'ss l lone lawyer jenninifer robinson, , is based onon allegationsns that assasange c conspired orr collaboratated with chelsea manning th regard the 2010 leaks up iraq and afghanistan justice that the obama department tried for a lgtime toursue but und no evince for. inrder to build a justify prosecuting assange and not face the accusation that ththey were endangering ess freedomare prosececuting assangnge f for somethining in "the nenew york times" and everyry other m mia
outlet in the world does, publishingng cssifieied foformation. even if it werere tr that asnge collaborated with mannining, again, t they found o evididence of thatat,t would stl be a grave t teat to press freedoms because journalisists l the e time work wiwith their sos in order t to obtainn p pacified ininformation so t they can rept on it. itit is the crimiminalization nf journali by the trumpustice department and the greatest threat to press freedom by far under the trump presidency, infinitely wor than havi donald tmp tweet mean things about various reporters at cnn or nbcand every urnalist in e world should be e rating their voices as s loudly as possible o protest and announce this. amy: can you explain exactly ist you understand, why it that the ecuadorian embassy has revoked the asylum allowing the
british authorities to come inside, what is going on with president marino and his charges that julian assange was involved in releasing photos, which assange has vehemently deninied? >> i interviewewed former prpresident rafaelorrea last year. he did something quite extraordary, which was forix years ood up for a gregorian sovereignty and for international law the u.k.n u.s. tri everythi it could to coerce them or threaten him to withdraw the asylum protection for asassange. he was a v very unusual leader. he f famously said, ifhe u.s. wants to hahave military bases n ecuador, they have to allow us to have military bases in. miami. he was agagainst imperialism and alallowing ecuadador to be a v l ,tatate and hiss sucucssor
president reno, is exactlyhehe opposite.. the trumpp administrtration, ci, u.k., andd spapa -- which h is angry ababout wikileaks'' denunciaiations of their ases of proteste durin the catalonian debate, have spent the last year and a half doing everything they can, threatengcuador, offering rewds to ecuador, doing anything they could to coerce ecuador under president marino to do something president correra refused to do, which was withdraw julian assange's asylum. he needed to concoct an excuse to do it so doesn't look like what he is, which is weak and submissive leader, to his population, so they made up of bunch of excuses. the reality is, they did it because the u.k. and the u.s. demanded they do it. nermeen: let's go to linda marino when he announced the arrest of assange thursday. he said britain has guaranteed he will not be extradited him a assange will not be extxtradited
to a country that has the death penalty. theoday i knows discourteous and aggressive bebehavior of mr. julilian assa. the hostile anand threatening declarations o of its s allied organizationon againstst ecuadod especially the transgression of international treatiess have led the situation to a point where the asylum of mr. assange is unsustainable and no longeger viable.. in line with our strong commitment to human rights and international law, i rerequested great brbritain to guarantntee t mr.. assange would not be extrtradited t to a country whee could faface t torture or the dh penalty. the brititish govevernment has confirmed it in writing in accordance with its own rules. nermeen: that is the ecuadororin presidenent linda marino speakig just a few hours ago today. , could you respond to what he said and whether or not you think it is likely that julian assanange will not be extradited as he said?
>> well, this is the -- this is the e same thing we've been fighghting against. what i is the difference between the deathh p penalty and lififen solitary confinemement? what w'e discususng here is not the seriousness of a p penalty o ofp alyst been prosecuted d because the e acts of publisishing, but whetheher a journalist shohoulde prosecututed or nobecaususe of e acts of publishingng. it is rereal terrible.e. it i is sad to see t the latin american leaderr abdicating a , throwing even constitutional principles in the trashcan in this case. it wilill be, i mean, i cannot alert e enough journanalist, not only in the u.s., , but any his,nalilist reporting about
the e seriousness of thihis cas. we do not take this battle as aa central battle f for our freedom of expressssion - -- the hearing is taking place this afternoon, the f first hearing r jujulian. we realllly hope to get as much sosolidarity as possible and attention, coherence with h your principles and basicically empathy. he is the e first journalalist facing t this, but he mimight ne the last. you might be the next t one. ananyone hearingng this show. nermeen: glenn greenwald, the american civil liberties union has just issued a statement saying that the prosecutution of assasange i is especiallyly trog
becaususprosecuting a foreign publisrr for vioioting u.s. secrecy l ls would set espepecially dangerousus precedt for u u. journalalists who roroutinely violate f foreign secrcrecy laws t tdeliver informatiovital to t public's interest." when g greenwald, can you respod to t that? mean, what u.s. journalists d d andd -- - regarding ththis foren secrecy lawsws? >> w wl, i thinkt is one o the remarkrkable aspectsts of ts that jululian assangege is not a amereran citizen i ththk he visited the u.sonce for abouout three daysys. wikileaks is a foreign-based media organization. so the idea of the u.s. government can just extend its reach to any news outlet anywhere in the world and criminalize publication of documents or working with sources is extremely chilling. it would mean, for example,
china or north korea or iran could do the same thing if the u.s.s. news s outlet published secrets, would sometimes they do. it would mean iran would have the ability or china to issue an international arrest warrant and demand the reporters who work for the u.s. news outlets be extradited to those countries. amy: we're going to go to break and come back to our discussion, this latest news julian assange has been arrested by the british police, taken out of the upper door and -- ecuadorian embassy at the invitation of the president of ecuador. he will appear in court. there are reports later today come also reports the home secretary will address the house of commons. we have been speaking with renata avila in serbia, member of julian assange's legal team, human rights lawyer. also glenn greenwald joining us on the phone from brazil,
amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. as we bring you this breaking news today that the cofounder of wikileakaks has been arresteted. julian assssange was a aested after almlmt seven years of a silelent in the ececuadorian emy in londodon, has been n taken of the ecuadoririan e embassy as he sasaid "resist"t" taken into o n and taken in tohe metropotan jailn london. we've been speaking with a number of guest, attorneys,
colleagues of julian assange. we're now turning to jesselyn radack, former justice department attorney, serves as director of whistleblowers and source p protection at of -- expose facts. talk about what julian assange faces, what is being said in the media and apparently what the upper dorian president said? he is been promised that assange will not be extradited to a country that has the death penalty. of course, the u.s. does have the death penalty. what does this mean? >> my understanding is that the u.s. has probably made some kind of assurance that they would take the death penalty off the table. again, i have not seen the details of this, but i'm guessing that is what happens. the problem is that the criminal basis for what they're doing is an antiquated law calleled the espionage act, which is a
draconian l l that is b been usd to go after publishers, whistleblowers, sources, and journalists. it is a strict liability law with no available public interest defense. nermeen: what dodo you expect tt will happen now? in effect, a 45 year sentence,ei mean, the charges that he has against him in the u.s., could lead to up to 45 years in prison. is that what you understand? >> thahat is my understanding. this would be anan incredibly chilling precedent that would put at risk all journalists and publishers,, incluluding democry include "the new york times," and "the washington post" for reporting truthful information, classified or not, which is in the public interest. amy: what are these charges? they have never actually been revealed, if in fact, they are there, is a correct? >> they were apparently
inadvertently revealed. these would be charges under the espionage act, which, unfortunately, president obama resurrected after being dormant first century, resurrected this old law and has been using it not to go after spies, but rather to go after whistleblowers. unfortunatelely, it created a precedent the now president trump can run with. so when you suddenly have someone in power that we don't trust the way peopople trusted obama, here you are saying the full fruition ofof what that los like. again, this would be an incredibly chilllling precedent that has been created tododay wh the arrest of julianan assssang. he is a publisher.
he is a journalist. he is a media outlet. that puts you and any other reporter, journalist, publisher at risk. amy: are also joined by geoffrey robertson is represented julian assange in the past, has been an adviser to him. he is speaking to us from london. can you explain, geoffrey robertson, your understanding of the legal precedent t that is being set right now with the british police going into the gregorian embassy, apparently at the invitation of ecuador -- ecuadorian embassy, purely at the invitation of ecuador, taking out julian assange, who had asylum in the embassy promised seven years now. your response to what has taken place and the assurances that president has gotten that he wilill not be extrtradited to o a countntry ts the death penalty? at the beginnining. thosose assurances are a confidenence trick t to misleaeg
journalist. in britain, it'ss law that you cannot extradite anyone to a country to face the e death pepenalty. so having ththese assurances are nonot to the poioint. what i is sought byy ameririca n this warrant that was signed 15 months ago, have been plottiting this f for quite a while, is tht he be sent to america for trial on charges caring up to 45 years, which from an of assange 's heaealth and age, is in effet a deatath penenalty. so forget t all about t the deah penalty. britain will send assange to america ifif it extradition request is upheld by the court. but i must say that after giving him asylum and giving him t the promise e of asylulum, to hand m
over to t the police wiwithout giving him any warning or opportunity to go elsewewhere ia cruel and astonishihing breach f faitith by thihis rototten e ean government. it wilgo down inin the annals sf human rirights as aa disguststig act. but of course, it was encouraged by mr. pencece who visitit ecuad . therere is blood money in the backgroundnd. i ink k for amemecans who value, as everyonone does, y yr first amenenent, you have this problbm that your government is seeeeng to imprison an australian, a non-american -- doesn't m matter -- simplply don americican comen the theoryry of the firstt amendment,t, which would depepre
itits protetection to all forein journalists working for american papers. so it t would be a grave in road in your own much wanted freedom of speech if assange werere to e offered up and sacrificed for so many years. chelsea manning got 35. assange is accused of conspiring with chelsea manning. they are the words on the warrant. so he would get at least 35 years. and he would not be p pardoned y president trump, as manning was pardoned my y president obama. so that is, i think, the seriousnesess of this developopt today. it was probablbly inevitable tht ecuador, this crummy little state, would be lent upon by
assangea and yield up mr. in spite of the promise of asylum. imprisoned.now bee he will be e entitled d to a asr bail. america, no doubt, will object. and it will go throuough the enenglish courts. it will have to decide whether the treaty, extraditionon treaty we have with the uninited state, allows an englglishman or an australian to bebehrown to t the wolves in america because of what they have published. it makes nonsense of f freedomof speech. we have a human rights act with a qualalified guarantee of frere speech. we have the european convention. soso there is a chance that mr. assange would be e able to showw what hypocrirites you americans
are, or the trump administration is, in trying g to put him in prison wherere they could output the editor of "the new york times" who published the same material in prison. nermeen: geoffrey robertson, can you elaborate on precisely the timing of this? you said it t earlier on the bbc today that this is the result of pressure brought by secretary of state mike pompeo. you mention vice president pence, as well as national securirity advisor john boltoto. can you talk about that and also the pressure that the trump administration has been applying on ecuador to take a action? >> well, yes, you veve to understandnd the extradition war and, which required the cooperation of ecuador to expel decemberras signed in 2017. that is s 15 months.
ththere have been vivisits by ye vice presidentnt. there have been loans and financial dealings and d so forh with ecuador. coupleeto mr. assangege of weeks ago, and he was ceceainly in no doubt thahat the , in effect,is captivity, have been by agreemement with america. there was a pointnt about 1 months ago when he tweeted some support for r the catalonian seseparatiststs i in spain, and ecuador said ththis is a brbreaf your asysylum conditions and stopped him seeingg visitors and stopped amusing thehe internet. -- using t the internet. he could only see lawyers, w whh was a form of torture, ii suppose. that was over a year ago.
there's been notothing more rerecent. but whatat has happenened cently is they haveve t tried t to make tougher him as to force them out. that shen photographed has been photographed in every room, eveven using the t toilet. he has been -- his life has been made miserablele and of course e of the great cruelties in this situation thanks to the british government is that h he has a severe chest condition and speculative stuff speculatives us and we want you to be x-rayed. for seven years, the british government have denied him safe passage to hospital. he is not a well man. amy: are you c calling for him o be put into the hohospital now, not t jail??
>> i think oddly enough, a and isaybe ironic that now that he in jail, h he may be able to get the hospital treatment thahat he has been s so long denied. bubut otherwise, jail, and we wl see shortly, there may be an application for bail, we will have to see how that goes. i made the original application for bail seven years ago -- nine years ago, whichet him att modified liberty. eleased us h hope he is and could talk for hseself. t it may be that he will be held andnd dealt with by thee b bail, court i i breach of which h is a minor offense cee usuay dedealt wititby a fine or few weeks in imimisonment.. for assange,e, they migig, becae
he has lots of eneeses andnd is his owown worst enememy at timee may g g a couple ofonths. thth of course,e, it would bebe onward andnd upward through the british courts s to argrg the amamerican extraditionon reqequo punish him for exercising whwhat is otherwise a rigight to free speech, with the american gogornment, whwhich so tells the thet amendment --- touts fifirst amendment, will be seens hypocritical for attempting to punish this publisher. nermeen: is there any likely at all that he would be simply deportrted to auaustralia? he r rains an auaustralian citizen. >> yes, i i think you wowould vy much like that. and ifif the a australian govert hahad any gumptioion, that woule
-- but the us drug and government don't have much gumption. they are in all of thehe united states. the president government is there is an election next month wherere the oppppitin mayy be -- on behalf o of mr. assange.e. the british government t does nt like cam. but the opposition lababor party may be more supporting.g. at the end of the day, you come down to the question of freee speech, whether r it is rigightt a publblisher who has received infoformation frfrom sources who want it published where that infoformation is a publicic ininterest, showing amerirican h sqsquads, showowing the killingf reuter journalists by an american -- and so on.
punished jailed and for the efforts he has made e on behalf of of free s speech. i mean, wiki leaks revelations are found in n newspapers in history books now, but of cocourse, america is trying to make him suffer for taking the initiative. amy: we're going to end with julian assange in his own words. this is when i went to london and interviewed him in the ecuadorian embassy in 202015. in termss. government, of its attack on wikileaks, has tried to construct a theory which if permitted, will be the end of national security journalism. not just in the u.s., but outside of the united states. journalistss that
cannnnot solicit information frm sources. and to solicit information is to be involved in a conspiracy. amy: an accomplice. >> and the united states in terms of the charge types that it is trying to charge me with does include conspiracy and conspiracy to commit espionage. this is rubbish. we cannot tolerate this at the political level or media level. if we do tolerate it, that standard will be erected. what happens in practice, how does traditional investigative journalism work? you hear a rumor about some annt occurring at let's say assassination squad assassinated people. you hear a rumor about there may be an event. you go and speak to your sources or perhaps one approaches you and says, "i heard this happened." and you say, "well, that's good,
but we need to be ablele improve it." "do you have information that can prove it?" they say, "well, i might have some report on the incident." good, cany, " "that is we have that report? can we see the report?" that is the way journalism has always been done. the u.s. doj -- amy: that is the smoking gun. >> that is the smoking gun. edward snowden case without those documents, you don't get anywhere. if you have got that, then their undeniable official do not -- documents at the moment. we cannot allow a standard to be erected in national security journalism where that is not permitted, where that is seen to be unlawful. , as aer of journalists result of the doj pushing this
line that it is unlawfuful to sourcrces, havem been -- to p protect themselves, they h have said they are not. as a result, a new standard has been erected. in danger of being erected where you cannot solicit tips from sources. now we even fell into this 2012 wherek in 2011, our situation was quite precarious based on legagal advice, wikileaks does not solicit permission. wikileaks is one of the few organizations because of our infrastructure that t we do oftn information.ed we thinknk it is necessary to hd the line and say, asking for
tips is a very important thing to do. it has always been done in journalism. we're going to show we confident about doing that, confident that is legal under most judicial systems, and it should be legal also in the united states. we say legal under the first amendment. if thehe u.s. doj w wants to haa fight aboutt that in relalationo the tpp or anything else, then bring it on. amy: wikileaks cofounder julian assange, speaking at the ecuadorian embassy for he was in political exile in 2015. to see all of our interviews with him there as well as the public event we e did in london when he was out on bail but wearing the ankle monitor, along with the philosopher, you can go to democracynow.org. news, the latest breaking the british police have gone into the ecuadorian embassy at the invitation of the ecuadorian
i'i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. nermeen: we turn to sedan where the military is overthrown sudanese president al-bashir who is ruled for the past 30 years. he is reportedly now being held under house arrest. tens of thousands of protesters marched in celebration on the streets of sudan as the news broke that al-bashir's authoritarian rule has ended. the sudanese military has set up a transitional military council to rule the country for two years according to a televised statement by sudan's minister of defense. amy: the news comes after months of protest amending al-bashir's resignation. over the weekend, demonstrators gathered outside the military headquarters come also the residence of how bush year, amidst reports of teargassing and stun grenade attacks by security forces. reportrts on the ground say some soldiers began siding with protesters signaling a loss of military support from bashir. rights groups say at least 50
people have been killed since december while the government has been accused of jailing hundreds of critics, shutting of its.ss operate where joined by sudanese activist who was arrested for demonstrating against bashir earlier this year. welcome to democracy now! you were in the streets. you were in jail. talk about what has just taken place. >> what is just taken place is a military coup. although it is a matter of celebration for us to have ended overeignn of al-bashir for -- almost 30 years, it is only the first step. we still need to be out in the streets. we still need to make sure we're not under another military rule. nermeen: explain what exactly you are demonstrating against. it was not just the individual omar al-bashir, but a larger system. talk about that. >> the demands of the people
were the fall of the entire regime, not just bashir. it is difficult because the governmement has been there for almost 30 years and then infiltrated almost every institution in sudan. they have disintegrated any institution that does not have the ruling party and it. it is difficult to completely uproot them can remove them from the government. but that is what we are demanding. amy: the role of the military in sudan? >> the military has also been politicized. its leadership is pro-government. after the states of emergency that has been declared by bashir recently, the whole government has been a military government. -- that was not the fall of the regime, but basically within the measured -- regime him individuals within the regime conflicting amongst themselves. amy: so the icc, crimes against
to entity for war crimes. can you explain why you wanted omar al-bashir ousted and also for, as thehe call military says, they will rule for two years, people in the streets continuing to protest and saying, no, they want civilian rule, not military rule? >> bashir came to a militaryy coup.. there have been two elections, pseudo-elections. we still believe it is not democraticic, although ththeoreticallyy on paper it is. it is definitely not democratic. for and whatlling has been called for by the sudanese alliance who has been organizing these demonstrations is the fall of the regime, disintegrating the entire government, and transferring the role to a civilian government. not theitary council is transitional government we have been looking for, but it is
still a reason to celebrate. i'm sure people of sudan are feeling a plethora of feelings right now. it was a big joy when we realized something was going to happen and bashir might step down, but everybody felt conflicted once the announcement came by the military -- the minister of defense announced who has previously been the vice president. that ironic for him to say we apologize for what the regige has done -- he does represent the regime. nermeen: you participated in the protest, but so did a large number of women will stop a photo of a woman standing on top of a car with her arm raised in a crowded protesters has gone viral as a symbol of the revolution. talked about the role of women. >> it is an iconic photo. the role of women has been central since the beginning of the demonstrations in december. what you notice is they are
there in large numbers, sometimes a lot of women joke about how the young men in the protests would ask the woman to take shelter when he gets violence, but once they do that, they're only like five people left in the protest once the women are gone. what it would like to say about this photo is what she is wearing is a traditional attire mostly related to the center of sudan. it is another aspect we need to keep in mind as protesters, keep in mind we do not want to go back to the same issues of the fallen regime. we want to include all the categories. we want to include women and men from the mountains, from the eaeast. wewe don't want to fall back ino the same attitude of protest -- focusing on the center. amy: the u.s. was working with omar al-bashir, despite the icc wanting him for crimes against
humidity in the popular uprising, seeing him as a force for counterterrorism and their reason -- region. the fbi making deals as early as months ago. what about the role of the u.s.? >> that brings us to another individual, as protesters we want to see gone, the director of the national intelligence security services. he has been in very good terms with the cia. man inbeen the u.s.'s sudan. these are the individuals we want to see out.t. maybe another reason for celebration is so far we have not seen at least in overt foreign intervention. that is a reason for celebration. are not done. we are nowhere near done. it is a step. we are still waiting for the cia. we have been following the the alive s since
december. there is no reason to divert from that now. as of half an hour after the military announcement, they still have not said anything about it but i am guessing they will demand or request people to remain on the streets. but there is an issue of safety of the people because the announcement also comes with a curfew from 10:00 p.m. to 4:00 a.m. amy: do you think we're seeing an african spring? >> a lot of the times these terms can be a bit misleading when we put a lot of different countries in one c category. what is happening in algiers is very different from sudan. it can be something motivational to call it an african spring, but we have to pay attention to the differences. sudan's institutions have been disintegrated. it is a much more complicated situation. amy: we will continue to cover it. marine alneel, thank you for