tv Democracy Now LINKTV June 18, 2019 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
>> in our eyes, morsi is a martyr who lost his life when he fought for the cause he believed in. amy: egypt's first and only democratically elected president mohamed morsi died on monday after collapsing while in a cage inside a cairo courtroom. he had been jailed since 2013 when he was overthrown in a military coup. we will get the latest from sharif abdel!'s kouddous in egypt. then as a london judge orders wikileaks founder julian assange to appear before a court to face a full extradition hearing, we will speak to james goodale, the former general counsel for "the new york times" who advise the paper to publish the pentagon papers back in 1971. >> this case against julian ofange was the proprietor wikileaks, is the most serious case against a journalist or someone assuming journalistic
did,ions, which assange that has ever happened in the history of this country. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. in egypt, former president mohamed morsi died monday after he collapsed in court. he was 68 years old. morsi came to power in 2012 as the head of the muslim brotherhood and egypt's first and still only, democratic , election, but he was deposed a year later in a military coup led by egyptian army chief general abdel fattah el-sisi. he had been behind bars ever since. the muslim brotherhood, which is now banned in egypt, has accused the egyptian state of murder. human rights watch said -- "the government of egypt today bears responsibility for his death, given their failure to provide him with adequate medical care or basic prisoner rights."
morsi's death comes as president el-sisi continues to jail tens of thousands of people in what the associated press has described as the heaviest crackdown on dissent in egypt's modern history. we'll have more on this after headlines with democracy now! correspondent sharif abdel kouddous. amid mounting tensions with iran, acting defense secretary patrick shanahan announced the u.s. is sending an additional 1000 troops to the region. the pentagon released new images monday it says prove that iran is responsible for last thursday's attack on two tankers in the gulf of oman. the u.s. military says the images show members of iran's revolutionary guard removing an unexploded mine from one of the ships. iran has denied involvement in the attack. secretary of state mike pompeo has said the u.s. is considering a full range of options. republican senator tom cotton, a member of the armed services
committee and a trump ally, called sunday for a "retaliatory strike" on iran, saying on cbs's "face the nation" -- "the president has the authorization to act to defend american interests." neither of the tankers were u.s.-owned. one belonged to a norwegian company and the other to a japanese company. the european union foreign policy chief federica mogherini called for maximum restraint as she heads to washington for talks today with u.s. officials. u.n. secretary-general antonio guterres warned last week that the world cannot afford a confrontation in the region and that "facts must be established, and responsibilities clarified." on monday, iran's atomic energy agency announced it is just days away from reaching the limit of enriched uranium stockpile permitted under the 2015 iran nuclear deal. the move, according to iranian officials, is designed to
pressure european nations to take more decisive action to maintain the nuclear pact despite the u.s.'s withdrawal from the pact last year. iran said they are still committed to the deal and have said repeatedly they are not united war with the states. mexico announced it "6000 national guard troops along mexico's southern border with guatemala this week, as part of a deal with the u.s. to help stem the flow of northbound migration through mexico. mexican officials also said they detained nearly 800 migrants over the weekend. meanwhile, president trump tweeted monday that immigration and customs enforcement would begin removing millions of undocumented people from the united states as of next week, writing --
he also commended the recent actions by mexico in his tweet. on monday, the state department announced that all aid to honduras, guatemala, and el salvador had been cut over what the trump administration says is their failure to stop the influx of central american migrants into the united states. the move, initially announced by the trump administration in march, cuts over $500 million in funding for programs designed to curb immigration, addressing issues like education, employment, and violence. the cuts have been widely condemned by lawmakers, including some republicans, who say it will likely exacerbate the humanitarian crisis at the southern border. in nigeria, at least 30 people have been killed after three suicide bombers set off explosive devices near the city
of maiduguri in the state of borno. the attack took place outside a packed social venue where locals were watching a soccer match on television. no one has claimed responsibility, but the militant group boko haram, which has struck the area before, is suspected, according to local reports. the united nations warned monday it would likely have to begin suspending food assistance in yemen due to houthi rebels' interference in the distribution of the much needed aid. this the world food program's david beasley. >> we are now assisting, feeding over 10 million people per month. but as the head of the world food program, i cannot are sure you that all of the assistance is going to those who need it most. why? because we're not allowed to operate independently. and because aid is being diverted for profit and flash for other purposes.
the bottom line is this, food is being taken from the mounds of hungry little girls and boys who need it just to survive. amy: the u.s.-backed, saudi led war in yemen has led to the world's worst humanitarian crisis. the u.n. reports that 80% of the population, over 24 million people, need some form of assistance. in the occupied golan heights, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu unveiled plans to build a new settlement sunday named "trump heights" to thank president trump for his decision to recognize israeli sovereignty over the annexed territory. the move announced in march reverses decades of u.s. policy and is in defiance of international law. israel annexed the golan heights in 1981 after capturing the territory from syria during the 1967 war. critics say the move by netanyahu was a pr stunt by netanyahu as the settlement has not been legally approved by israeli lawmakers.
back in the united states, in a decision that could have a significant impact for upcoming state-wide elections in virginia, the supreme court rejected an appeal monday by republican state lawmakers to reverse virginia's electoral redistricting after lower courts found that republicans gerrymandered the state's voting map to be racially biased. two conservative justices and three liberal justices delivered the ruling, saying the challenge had no legal standing. in more news from the supreme court, the justices ruled 7-2 that criminal defendants can be prosecuted for the same offense in both a state and federal court. the decision reaffirms an existing exception to the double jeopardy rule and has implications for trump associates who could receive presidential pardons. in the case of former campaign chair paul manafort, a pardon from trump could release him from his federal prison sentence, but new york state prosecutors would still be able to pursue their charges against him.
in california, the war crimes trial for navy seals special operations chief edward gallagher opened monday. gallagher is accused of shooting unarmed civilians in iraq and of killing a wounded captive isis teenage fighter by stabbing him with a knife, then staging a re-enlistment ceremony over the dead teenager's body. california congressmember duncan hunter has come to gallagher's defense and president trump has signaled he's considering a pardon for gallagher. opening statements in the trial are taking place today. in new york, immigrant rights activists are celebrating after governor andrew cuomo signed into law a bill allowing undocumented residents to obtain driver's licenses. the bill overturns a nearly 20-year-old ban and came after years of grassroots and political organizing. proponents of the bill say it not only helps protect immigrant communities, but also makes roads safer. ana maria archila of the center for popular democracy tweeted
about the historic passing of the legislation, commonly referred to as the green light bill, saying -- "for as long as i've been an activist, we've been trying to win drivers licenses for all new york state residents. this fight is about the freedom to move without fear & the right to return to our families at the end of day. today democracy came alive & delivered justice. #sisepuede." a student who survived the 2018 massacre at marjory stoneman douglas high school in parkland, florida, said on twitter that harvard university has rescinded his admission due to racist and anti-semitic remarks from his past. he said he regretted his past comments calling them egregious and callous and apologized to harvard for them, writing "i also feel i am no longer the same person, specially in the aftermath of the parkland shooting and all that has transpired since."
he is come under fire before for other online post. last her he posted a video of himself shooting at a gun range. harvard has declined to comment on the case but has grievously rescinded admission for students based on their online history. in 2017, with two offers for at least 10 students who shared sexually explicit messages and offensive memes in a private facebook post. flaw in thevered a switch which activates engine fire extinguishers. b787ssue affects the dreamliner. the federal aviation administration acknowledged there is "risk to the flying public" but says it will not ground the aircraft. meanwhile, boeing 737 max jets remain grounded following two fatal crashes, the ethiopian airlines jet and if you're been's lion air crash.
they crashed everyone -- the two crashes killed everyone on board. despite the growing scrutiny of boeing, the company confirmed reports last month it would be replacing up to 900 quality control inspectors with smart technology. critics say the speed of production and automation of safety checks are compromising traveler safety. in climate news, arctic monitors found that over 40% of greenland experienced melting over a single day last week, with temperatures soaring 40 degrees higher than normal. scientists say the extent of the melting is unusual for this time of year and will contribute to the worsening global sea level rise. meanwhile, a new study shows that climate change has led to the thawing of permafrost in the canadian arctic over 70 years earlier than expected. thawing of the permafrost thaws releases carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, cause temperatures to further rise.
in geneva, teenage activist huddled inside a metal cage outside the u.n. headquarters monday to demand migrant children in u.s. custody be reunited with their parents, calling for the u.n. human rights council to address complaints filed last year against president trump's zero-tolerance family separation policy. randi weingarten of the american federation of teachers helped organize the protest. >> 2500 children have been separated from their parents in the last year. there are court cases after court cases where the trump administration have been told to reunite children with their parents. that has not happened. instead, the trump administration has said they do not know how to reunite, that they don't have the records. amy: the american voter teachers
-- the american federal teachers helped file the complaint. and in new york city, activists from a variety of environmental and social justice groups protested former vice president and 2020 democratic candidate joe biden outside of a campaign fundraiser at the home of billionaire investment banker james chanos. the activists called out biden's recently released clean energy revolution plan, which they said falls short of the radical changes needed to curb the catastrophic effects of climate change, such as banning fracking and new oil pipelines, or achieving 100% renewable energy in the near future. they are calling on biden to reject fossil fuel money and to fully support the green new deal. this is patrick houston from new york communities for change. throughout his career and biden has not, made climate change serious priority in his campaign.
taken the green new deal seriously, and that is s he putin the weak plan out. so we're out he today to call on biden to make his climate match climate science. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. juan: and i'm juan gonzalez. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. former egyptian president mohamed morsi died on monday after collapsing while in a cage inside a cairo courtroom. morsi was 68 years old. he was buried today in cairo. the muslim brotherhood leader was elected in 2012 in egypt's first, and still only, democratic election, but he was deposed a year later in a military coup led by egyptian army chief general abdel fattah el-sisi.
in his final comments, morsi insisted he was still egypt's legitimate president. morsi's historic election came one year after mass protests led to the the end of hosni mubarak's 30-year rule. morsi spent the last six years of his life in jail including extended periods in isolation. amy: the muslim brotherhood, which is now banned in egypt, has described morsi's death as "full fledged murder." human rights watch said -- "the government of egypt today bears responsibility for his death, given their failure to provide him with adequate medical care or basic prisoner rights." morsi's death comes as el-sisi continues to jail tens of thousands of people in what the associated press has described as the heaviest crackdown on dissent in egypt's modern history. we go now to cairo where we are joined by sharif abdel kouddous, democracy now! correspondent and a reporter with mada masr, an independent media outlet in cairo.
sharif, this must have come as a shock to many yesterday, when you have the former president of egypt collapsing in court and dying. talk about the significance of mohamed morsi, also wife you was in -- also wife he was in court. egypt's first democratically elected president, the first elected president in the air moral and that is what he will be remembered for. but before 2002 -- i'm sorry, before 2012 and became the candidate for president, many people had never heard of mohamed morsi. he was a bureaucrat in the muslim brotherhood. he was by no means a leading figure or influential figure in the organization. he rose through the ranks as a party man and a loyal bureaucrat. he was elected to parliament in
2000. in 2011 after the ouster mubarak, he was named president of the brotherhood's freedom and justice party. when the brotherhood made a controversial decision to field the president candidate, it named its leading financier and strategist at the top choice. when he was disqualified from the race, the backup candidate mohamed morsi was suddenly thrust into the spotlight and during his brief one year rule, he came under criticism from many segments of egyptian society, including those at the heart of the revolution at the time. morsi's government and the brotherhood presumed policies that were meant to extract -- restrict the right to assemble, protests, form ngos. they had a draft law that guaranteed the right to form independent unions will stop morsi named his interior minister in 2013 who then embarked on a very harsh
crackdown on any protesters against him. but morsi also had some achievements, none less than foreign-policy where he helped broker a cease-fire in gaza in 2012 after only a week of fighting. that marks a very big difference that we saw under abdel fattah el-sisi's rule in 2014 when israel pummeled gaza for a number of weeks. in november, he made a fateful decision to issue a constitutional declaration that gave him temporary and far-reaching powers that placed him be on the reach of the court -- beyond the reach of the court. these protests grew, culminating in this june 30 mobilization that was very actively backed by the security establishment and the army. then he was removed from power by the military, led by abdel fattah el-sisi, than a general,
whom morsi had named as his prime minister the summer before. morsi has been in prison ever since in very harsh prison conditions. many political detainees in egypt suffer from brittle prison conditions, but morsi seems to have been extremely singled out. he was held in solitary confinement for the last six years. for 23kept in a cell hours a day with hardly any to medication whatsoever. he was barred from seeing his emily or lawyers and in the past six years, only have three family visits. of --ularly complained that he was suffering, his health was suffering. he said in june 2017 that he slipped into a diabetic coma for two days. he repeatedly asked in court to be transferred to a private medical facility. his family, when they did see him, said he had lost a
significant amount of weight. year ats a report last a by a number of british parliamentarians and senior lawyers that found his health was indeed the generating. they concluded if he did not get treatment, golightly -- it could likely lead to his premature death. it was a very dramatic moment. if i can give you some of the details, the official statement by the public prosecutor said morsi was in the defendant's cage, demanded from the judge to be able to address the court. the judge granted that. he spoke for a few months. during those few months, he said he demanded the right to speak to his lawyers. he likened himself to a blind man who had no idea what was going on in his trial. -- hisally ended his last words were, according to a saidr who spoke to us, he -- quoted from a poem.
he said "my country, even if it fought me, is dear to me. my people, even if they resented me, are honorable." those are reportedly his last words according to a lawyer. after that the hearing was adjourned and then morsi collapsed inside the defendant's cage. the other defendants around him, some of whom were physicians, tried to revive him. he was taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival. he was buried earlier today under heavy security. the family attended the funeral prayers inside the mosque from inside covers notorious prison. he was not allowed to be buried in his family cemetery in the delta. he was buried in a cemetery in cairo were a number of other islamists are buried.
photographers were not allowed to take pictures of the funeral. juan: i want to ask you in terms of how the resistance has continued against the military regime in the years subsequent , and ifeposing of morsi you could talk about that as well, but also the broader question here to my mind is that the west has often pressed the necessity for democratic reforms in the arab and muslim world. but we have seen now over several decades that when n power through democratic elections, they are crushed to whether it was in algeria with the islamic salvation front in the early 1990's when the military crushed what was seen to be a victory, popular democratic victory by islamic forces. whether he was in gaza when the palestinian territories in 2007 electionwon.he in 2013 with egypt
the deposing by the military of morsi. what is a young arab muslim arab and muslim world, when they see this happening with the support and complicity of the west, what alternative do they have but to resort to violence against their oppressives -- oppressors? >> i was surprised today when the response with international community, there was very little comment coming out of washington , out of berlin, out of paris, out of london about mohamed morsi's death will stop this was the democratically elected president, by far the most populist arab country, who was deposed by the military, suffered deeply as a political detainee in prison, and yet there was very little comment about this dramatic death of him
after speaking in court. -- there isto widespread acceptance of abdel , asah el-sisi's government the president of egypt. he is been accepted by europe, which lavishes millions of euros on egypt and deals to try and stem the flow of migrants to europe. egypt has become the biggest purchaser of weapons from germany in the world. massive purchaser of weapons from france. they buy weapons from italy and technology as well and from england. this is kind of the consensus now. and sisi says, at least we are libya or syria or yemen, all of these failed states around egypt that have collapsed following brutal civil wars. many of them the west intervened in.
and this is the line that seems accepted. as far as resistance goes in about we keep talking difficult and harsh crackdown on any and all opposition voices in egypt. that continues. there is very little in the way .f political parties civil society has been almost driven underground. the media has been controlled, not just through censorship, but also through acquisition by the general intelligence services -- which is that the largest media owner in egypt. we really saw that today when the coverage in the local press oneorsi's death not only newspaper had it on the front page. every other newspaper buried the news deep inside the paper. they all must have identical coverage of 42 words, not even referring to mohamed morsi as the former president. that speaks to the media landscape. having said that, there are
still people willing to speak out all the time despite these very harsh measures. government the sisi was pushing through an parliament was pushing through to extend his power until 2030, which was passed a few months ago. hundreds of thousands of people signed an open petition with their names online in opposition to the constitutional amendments. we see these kinds of moments where people are willing to speak out. in terms of organization and actual groundwork, it is hard to tell what is actually happening. but despite what is a very difficult situation and an extremely harsh clampdown, i'm still surprised by the tenacity of people to be willing to speak out and criticize the government. amy: you mentioned response from the west. in april, trump welcomed s who overthrew
mohamed morsi and is now the president, welcome 10 to the white house for the second time saying wit never had a better relationship, egypt and the u.s., then we do right now. also than trump pushed or the muslim brotherhood to be designated a terrorist organization but a currently the state department, the pentagon said it did not meet the requirements so president trump could not do what el-sisi wanted, sharif. visited and wey saw trump again restarting this call to label the muslim brotherhood a terrorist organization. even within the u.s. government itself, many state department officials and defense department officials think that will be a very divisive move to do because the brotherhood operates in many countries as a political organization. but there is this kind of
branding of or attempt to bring all islamist as terrorists, unfit for political rule. this fits in the rubric of a larger world order that completely -- has completely been accepted by the united states and the west. trump has a hcummy relationship with sisi. the actual policies of not marked a significant shift whether republican or democratic administration, which has been to continue massive military aid to egypt, continue support is the economic support to egypt. in fact, trump suspended more aid than obama did following aa massacre.b bothboth suspended aid in restored it eventually. this has been a continuation of
a long-standing policy, which is --work with a strong man "strongman" that we like and sisi is to be happy with that and that seems to be the international consensus,'s ashley by europe and the united states that sisi is an acceptable leader that there would work with. juan: if you could briefly, detail for us what were the actual charges against morsi that he was facing trial for? and his trial extended for quite a period of time? >> morsi was facing multiple .ifferent trials at the time of his death, he was serving a 20 year sentence in one case that had to do with clashes outside the presidential palace. he was serving a life sentence. in another case, he was serving a three-year sentence for assaulting the judiciary.
there were two pending cases on which was going on to retrial for. one of them was a case involving spying for hamas, and that was the case he was on yesterday. and another one that he still had going on had to do with a 2011 prison break, where he was charged with that. there has been these massive kind of trials happening with these fantastical charges against him. one of them is he conspired with likef these groups hezbollah and hamas to foam and this takeover of egypt. they have been marred by very serious due process violations. we've seen other leading muslim brotherhood members sentenced to death multiple times. many of them received multiple life sentences. it is clear none of them will be long asout of prison as his government is in power.
and we saw yesterday morsi died. another man died last year. he was also suffering -- who is old and needed medical attention. he died in prison. this is, the situation we see. this is what thousands and thousands of political prisoners in egypt face, years in prison after being convicted on trials that fall short of due process. many of them have not even been convicted at all and are held in what is called remand detention were they can be a without conviction for a budget three penal code egypt's and are often held longer than that. many people who complete their sentences by something called probation, worry of people like -- where you have people like the photographer arrested in august 2013 or a revolutionary icon who both have come after spending five years in prison, now have five years of probation
where they are required to spend the night at a police station every day from 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., turn themselves in every single day to the police station where they sleep either on the floor or in a cell or sometimes outside this station. these draconian measures that the sisi government has continued to pursue and does not seem to be letting up anyway whatsoever. if you could talk about the estimates of how many political prisoners there are in egypt, but also a key member of the independent media landscape in egypt, can you talk about the pressure on an independent press in egypt? it is very difficult to find an actual figure of the number of political prisoners. there have been some estimates by rights groups between 40000
and 60,000 prisoners. we regularly see sweeps of people, even to this day, people who have not spoken out for along time, their house will be raided and they will be taken away and usually they will face charges like joining an outlawed organization. amy: we just have 20 seconds left on a light. -- on satellite. >> i was a the independent media landscape is quite small but thriving. we are one of the best outlets for that. so much fork you being with us, sharif abdel kouddous, democracy now! correspondent, reporter with mada masr, an independent media outlet, speaking to us in cairo, egypt, on the death of mohamed morsi. he died in a cage in court where he was being tried. when we come back, the former
amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. a london judge has ordered wikileaks founder julian assange to appear before a court next year to face a full extradition hearing. prosecutors in the u.s. have indicted assange on 18 counts, including 17 violations of the espionage act, in the first-ever case of a journalist or publisher being indicted under the world war i-era law. assange said his life was
"effectively at stake" if the u.k. honors a u.s. request for his extradition. amy: on friday, julian assange appeared by video link from the high-security belmarsh prison friday, where he's serving a 50-week sentence for skipping bail in 2012 when he took refuge in the ecuadorean embassy in london. he was granted political asylum. he lived there for almost seven years. the full extradition hearing is expected to last five days and will begin february 25, 2020. to talk more about julian assange's case, we're joined now by james goodale, pentagon papers attorney and the former vice president and general counsel for "the new york times." in 1970 one, you urged "the times" to publish the pentagon papers. he is the author of "fighting for the press: the inside story of the pentagon papers and other battles."
welcome to democracy now! talk about what julian assange faces right now. ,t has become very clear with what, 17 charges of espionage against him and now the court clearing the way for this extradition case next year. >> the first thing that happens, there will be a trial as to whether he will be extradited or not. that will be interesting to follow. if you loses, which most people think he will, he then comes back here and faces charges under the espionage act -- espionage, if you can believe it, for publishing and gathering the news. that was -- those charges are absolutely novel in the history of this country. if the government succeeds with the trial against assange, if any, that will mean it has criminalized the newsgathering process.
saying onef reporter, like the two of you, go out and try to get a story from someone who has classified information -- by the way, all information is classified in the government -- you run the risk of going to jail. that is why the assange case from a journalist point is very important and from a publishers point, since he also has a website and publishes, it is astounding that the government has brought criminal charges against a publisher. think of "the new york times" for example. juan: in terms of assange in particular, many in the press of "soured" on him in terms of how they view him. your assessment of how the press attitude for himself and why there's a danger in some of their thinking? >> the press attitude has been terrible. first, ignorance of what i just said -- i think i have the true view of this. secondly, i think their view and
perhaps the public's view of ,ssange is that he is a rapist he steals information, he causes leaks to take place. amy: those were charges, by the way, that were never actually brought against him. >> that is what it was about to say. all of this is totally irrelevant to what we're talking about today, which i won't emphasize deals with publication by "the new york times" and four companion papers, by julian assange 10 years ago. anything that has happened since then is not part of the charge. therefore, if you hate julian assange because he screwed up the election or because he has been accused of rape, forget it. it is nothing to do with that. we're talking about something that happened 10 years ago and it raises huge issues of principle with respect to the newsgathering process. amy: you talked about "the new
york times." continue on that line. case,the pentagon papers basically, you had an issue of what happens prepublication and when you will be allowed to publish. after the publication, there can always be, but there never has been, a criminal case will stop therefore, when "the new york the pentagonhed papers, the case was not over. the government tried to do to "the new york times" and its reporter exactly what it is trying to do too assange today. the government convened a grand to get sheehan tried to see if you could connect in "the new york times" a noam chomsky and others of the who were in boston.
the grand jury went on and on sudden it all of a dropped. we do not know why it dropped. i will tell you, jill lepore, a harvard, is trying to open a case. it is very interesting. it is similar to what is happening with julian assange and wikileaks. juan: the government is not claiming their case stifles free speech. they are claiming assange facilitated the ability of chelsea manning to actually break into government information. could you address that as well? >> i think that is a way of reading it, but i think when you take your lawyer's eyes and look exactly at what they are saying and what happened, assange did manning,itate chelsea
who is the source in this case, with respect to chelsea manning's leaks. he -- or she -- can i use both? she wanted to was a blow. assange did not get in there and say, they started leaking. once they started licking and it leaked to wikileaks, which is a website that takes anonymous leaks, assange had conversations with manning, but it is hard to say that assange is the driving force in all of what took place because he did not blow the whistle. manning blew the whistle. sometimes you forget anything, hey, isn't assange -- assange is "the new york times." . wikileaks amy: i want to go to mike pompeo when he was director of the central intelligence agency about julian assange in
2017. this was his comment as cia director. >> julian assange and is that are not interested in enhancing personal freedom. they pretended meca's first amendment freedoms shield them from justice. they may have believed that but they are wrong. assange has created nothing of value, relies on the dirty work of others to make himself famous. he is a fraud, coward hiding behind a screen. amy: that was pompeo. assange later responded to his comments while speaking on the intercepted podcast. >> pompeo said explicitly he was going to redefine the legal parameters of the first amendment to define publishers like wikileaks in such a manner that the first amendment would not apply to them. what the hell is going on?
head of the largest intelligence service in the united states. he doesn't get to make proclamations on interpretation of the law. that is the responsibility for the courts, the responsibility for congress, and perhaps the responsibility of the attorney general. it is way out of line to assert the roles of just usurp the roles of those defining the interpretations of the first amendment for any group to pronounce themselves, but for the head of the cia to pronounce what the boundaries are of reporting and not reporting is a very disturbing precedents. amy: that was julian assange. jim goodale? >> i agree with what he said about pompeo. i think what pompeo said about assange could be applied to pompeo. but it is interesting the cia chief is so interested in this. it is because the cia has been
trying for half a century to cut back the first amendment to stop leaks. that is what this case is all about. first, following the pentagon papers, the justice department was able to convict sources of leaking to reporters, but they could not get reporters so they got half the equation, so to speak. for 50 years, they've been trying to get the other half of the equation to get reporters and put them in jail and limit the first amendment protection of reporters in that regard. so i think assange is right. i think all caps has the right to say it, -- to tell the truth, i think pompeo has the right to say it. amy: we're going to go to break and then we will come right back. jim goodale is an attorney, former general counsel for "the new york times."
amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. juan: as we continue to talk about the possible extradition of wikileaks cofounder julian assange, i want to turn to daniel ellsberg, who spoke on democracy now! last month about the justice department's case to indict assange on espionage charges. >> there hasn't actually been such a significant attack on the freedom of the press and first amendment, which is the bedrock of our republic, our form of
government, since my case in 1971 48 years ago. but i was indicted as a source. and i warned news men in that would not be the last indictment of a source if i were convicted. well, i wasn't convicted. the charges were dropped on governmental misconduct. it was another 10 years before anyone else faced that charge on the espionage act again. it was not until president obama , as nine cases were brought i have been warning for us so long. at my warning was that it was not going to stop there. almost inevitably there would be a stronger attack directly on the foundations of journalism against editors, publishers, and journalists themselves. and we have now seen that. juan: that was daniel ellsberg, the famous pentagon papers whistleblower. i want to ask you, james goodale, first on the fact that
chelsea manning, the whistleblower in this case, is currently incarcerated for refusing to testify to a grand jury precisely about what happened. i'm wondering if you could talk about that, but also the climate we are in today that we have a president, when he was campaigning for president, actually praised wikileaks and called on wikileaks publicly to try to break into or find hillary clinton's supposed lost emails. >> we will talk about the president first. my favorite subject. because it is under his regime that this case is being brought. obama had a choice to bring the case or not. , 10 years old, he decided because the first mma considerations he would not bring the case. this case is a reflection of donald trump. they would not be brought without donald trump. he has been enhanced in the ability to do so for exactly the
reasons that daniel ellsberg says. that after his case, the government -- i'm sorry to say, it was obama in large part -- decided to bring criminal proceedings against sources. daniel ellsberg was the first, as he said. and nothing for 10 years. and then the son of samuel eliot morrison, one of the great historians of this country who was in the cia, was the first such person have a case wrought against him. and there have been many others. therefore, once the government -- as i said earlier, half the intellectual transaction, namely -- can convict the source. they cannot resist the temptation to go after the reporter and the newspaper. daniel ellsberg has been right to warn about this. ask you about the
extradition relationship between the u.s. and britain. isn't it true that countries don't usually extradite people facing prosecution for political offenses? and isn't that what espionage is? >> i think in a would agree to both thehints of the access to those questions. in the case of the united states, it has a treaty with u.k. and says specifically in the treaty you cannot extradite for political purposes. ath espionage, is that political activity that would exempt assange? a lot of people think so. i think that is probably the better argument. the weather in fact assange will be a will to get a fair trial in the u.k. when the british home secretary has are ready said he wants him indicted in the prime minister said justice will be whether thee wonder court will fairly apply that
exception. that is what the argument will be about in the five-day period in which this trial will take place. is extradited he to the u.s., what is your expectation of what an eventual ruling in the supreme court here would be? oh, my goodness, the supreme court. i worried about the trial court. i think it is hard for assange to get a fair trial anywhere. there's so much publicity about what he has done. now you say the supreme court. well, the supreme court is not bad on the first amendment. it really isn't. but when it comes to national security cases, we can wonder whether the chief justice will be as good on the first amendment as applied to national security as he has been -- and he has been -- with respect to other issues. in his vote is needed. you have to find the fifth vote, as we all know, because conservatives sort of control be voting numbers on the court.
so we don't know what he is going to do, therefore, the answer, which was terribly long-winded, excuse me, is i am pessimistic. amy: we talked about the pentagon papers and daniel ellsberg. we talk about you as the person who pushed "the times" to publish newspapers. but people don't exactly know what happened. if you can talk about what happen in 1971 when daniel is work approached the paper. what happen inside the paper? you are this young general counsel for "the new york times." >> yes, i was young then. what happened was the pentagon papers was consisted of the history, 40 plus volumes of united states relationships with vietnam, effectively brought into the main editors of "the new york times" and to me. i did not have any difficulty whatsoever to think that history could not be published. i really did not care.
you looked at those sources of the study, "the new york times" was a source in the study. what was someone going to do, stop the paper from publishing what it had already published? that was basically my argument. when this argument and the desire of the news people to publish was brought to those who paper, they were not so happy about it. you can understand why. they asked the former attorney general of the united states who served under eisenhower what his opinion was. his opinion was, i'm not even going to read the pentagon papers and less than a classified stamp on it and you will go to jail if you publish. "the times" published anyway. i asked the same man who represented us in court the next day because the government was trying to stop publication, that is with the pentagon papers was. a move by the government to stop publication.
it had to be defended. amy: president nixon. at the time >> and asked brian allen to defend us in the court. six or seven hours before about to go into court, said not going to do it. i was young and a little excited, but i was able to put together a team in the next hour and a half of lawyers. we went into court with a whole new team, which i know from subsequent conversations with the government, surprised the living hell out of them how i did that. that may have been the better achievement, putting that in together. and we won. juan: in your book, you talk about the internal battles before you ended up in court within the paper itself about what to do and the pressure put on the ownersouse and the editors of the paper. >> let's take the last question first.
how did they find out about it. well, they found out about after it was published. what the white house did the roots then attorney general john mitchell, we know about him because he spent part of his life in joke and he called ronaldo said you don't defend "the times." there was a huge battle internally between the chief editors and those who represented the publisher with respect to choice of material published by "the times" which is the publisher's role. he was advised by a former foreign editor and so forth and so on. theot to be so bloody that editor of "the new york times" who was named abe rosenthal, went home and told his wife that either "the new york times" published the pentagon papers or i am taking off. i did the same with my wife, too. it was a bloody, screaming
situation. and when the government asked us to stop publication -- we published in the government asked us to stop, there was another huge fight between me and those advising the publisher . screaming could be heard. there was actual screaming will stop but the first amendment won. amy: we will do part two of the discussion just to get people a sense of tha