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tv   Democracy Now  LINKTV  November 16, 2021 8:00am-9:01am PST

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11/16/21 11/16/21 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> now in in the center of iran, there are more coming from afghanistan. 5000 come every day. 300,000 since the taliban took over the end of august. it is prudent -- it is urgent.
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amy: ahanistans facing the world's worst humanitarian crisis as millions face starvation with the winter months quickly approaching. we will speak to jan egeland of the norwegian refugee council. he is just back from visiting an afghan refugee camp in iran. we will also talk to him about the refugees stranded on the belarus-poland border. then we look at u.s.-china relations and the biden-xi virtual summit last night. we will speak to historian alfred mccoy. his new book is out today, "to govern the globe: world orders and catastrophic change." >> by 2030, the world wi witns historic transition of u.s. power t chinese hegemony. theorld has been ruled by the united states as the most powerful empire in the history of the world. by 2030, china's economy will be
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at least 50% larger, it's military will be expanding, he will bin many areas equal to the u.s. mitary. and if war comes, he will come over taiwan. amy: all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now!,, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. president biden has signed the $1.2 trillion infrastructure investment and jobs act, legislation hailed by the white house as the largest-ever federal investment in u.s. bridges, drinking water, passenger rail, and public transit. biden signed the bipartisan bill monday on the south lawn of the white house surrounded by lawmakers from both major parties. pres. biden: the bill i am about to sign is truth that despite the cenex, democrats and republicans can come together and deliver results.
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we can do this. amy: progressive lawmakers are demanding congress swiftly pass an even larger piece of legislation -- the 10-year, $1.75 trillion build back better act to fund social safety net programs and combat the climate crisis. all 50 republican senators oppose the legislation, meaning it needs the support of conservative democrats to pass. last week, west virginia democratic senator joe manchin cast new doubt on the bill's fate after he said he would oppose tax incentives for electric vehicles produced by union workers. manchin has also refused to say if he'll back president biden's pledge at the cop26 climat summit to slash methane emissions by 30% this decade. biden has proposed a tax on methane as part of the reconciliati package. president biden and chinese president xi jinping spoke for 3.5 hours in a virtual summit monday night, topics discussed included taiwan, human rights
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and trade policies. during the summit, xi warned biden that supporting taiwanese independence would be "playing with fire." he also criticized the u.s. for building new alliances in the pacific region to counter china's rise. xi said dividing the world into blocs would "inevitably bring disaster to the world.” biden called on the two nations to develop "guardrails" to help avoid possible disagreements from spiraling into conflict. pres. biden: is seems our responsibility as leaders of china and the united states to ensure the competition between our countries does not veer into conflict, whether intended or unintended, just straightforward competition. amy: we will have more on the summit later in the show. in uganda, police say at least three people were killed and nearly three dozen others injured tuesday after a pair of suicide bomb attacks rocked the capital city kampala. one of the blasts struck near uganda's parliament. another went off near kampala's central police station.
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there was no immediate claim of responsibility. the islamic state claimed attacks in uganda last month that killed civilians, including children. spanish coast guard sailors on monday rescued three dozen refugees in waters near the canary islands and recovered the bodies of two others who died during the crossing. five people with hypothermia were airlifted to a nearby hospital in critical condition. spain says nearly 17,000 people have made the dangerous journey the cany islands from morocco or occupied western sahara this year, more than double the number who attempted the crossing during the same period last year. in eastern poland, border guards fired tear gas and water cannons tuesday at hundreds of asylum-seekers who tried to push their way through a razor wire barrier erected along the poland-belarus border. some of the refugees responded by throwing sticks, stones, and bottles at soldiers in riot gear. many of the migrants have spent weeks enduring freezing
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temperatures in squalid camps hoping to reach european soil to apply for asylum. on monday, the european union threatened new sanctions against belarus, accusing it of encoaging migrants to crs into poland in retaltion for earlier sanctions imposed after belarus cracked down on pro-democracy protests. we will have more on this story with jan egeland of the norwegian refugee council. in thailand, thousands of people took to the streets of bangkok on sunday in defiance of a ban on protests after a court ruled that calls to reform the thai monarchy amounted to attempts to overthrow the king. since 2020, more than 150 people have been charged under a thai law allowing prison terms of up to 15 years for anyone convicted of defaming thailand's monarchs. this is one of the protesters. >> the word reform is not equivalent to abolition. authorities what to do only the things they desire and see people with opposing views as
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the bad guy. if society continues like this, how can we move forward? amy: the united states has sharply condemned russia over what it said was an anti-satellite missile test carried out monday. state department spokesperson ned price said the misle targeted one of russia's own tellites. he said the resulting explosion created than 1500 pieces of orbital debris large enough to track, plus hundreds of thousands of smaller objects that pose a risk to satellites and astronauts. >> russia is dangerous and responsible behavior jeopardizes the long-term sustainability of outer space and clearly demonstrateshat russia's claims of opposing the weaponization of space are disingenuous and hypocritical. amy: this comes as u.s.-china continue to tt hypersonic missiles to deliver nuclear warheads. president biden proposed a 20 year ban on oiand gas dlling in and around a site of
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ancestral significance to indigenous people. the valley in the high desert of northwest new mexico was at the center of chacoan culture for about 400 years beginning in the 9th century. interior secretary deb haaland, who this year became the first-ever native american u.s. cabinet secretary, praised the drilling ban. she added -- "now is the time to consider more enduring protections for the living landscape that is chaco, so that we can pass on this rich cultural legacy to future generations." she used to be the congressmember from new mexico. vermont democratic senator patrick lakey announced he will retire when his term ends in 2022. leahy is 81 years old, chair of the powerful senate appropriations committee, and is the longest-serving senator currently in office. in texas, beto o'rourke said monday he's running for the democratic gubernatorial nomination and hopes to unseat
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incumbent republican governor greg abbott in 2022. o'rourke became a high-profile democratic presidential candidate after he narrowly lost his bid to unseat texas republican senator ted cruz in 20. meanwhile, an analysis of heavily gerrymandered congressional maps proposed by republican state legislatures since the 2020 census shows redistricting alone is on pace to give republicans a house majority in thmidterm elections. former trump advisor steve bannon turned himself in to the fbi on monday after being indicted for two counts of contempt of congress for refusing to comply with a subpoena from the house committee investigating the january 6 insurrection. bannon was later released. he is scheduled to be arraigned on thursday. in wyoming, the state republican party has voted to stop recognizing congressmember liz cheney as a party member due to her vote to impeach donald trump for inciting the capitol insurrection. a spokesperson for cheney responded by saying it was sad that leaders in the wyoming
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republican party have "allowed themselves to be held hostage to the lies of a dangerous and irrational man." in other trump news, "the wall street journal" reports a miami investment fund is preparing to purchase the trump international hotel in washington, d.c., for $375 million and will turn the property into a waldorf astoria hotel while removing the trump name. in labor news, unions representing more than 30,000 kaiser permanente hospital workers on the west coast and hawaii called off a strike monday after winning a tentative contract that boosts wages and sets limits on nurse-to-patient ratios. union negotiators also beat back a proposal by kaiser management to create a two-tiered wage structure that would have seen new hires paid significantly less. meanwhile, the international alliance of theatrical stage employees voted narrowly monday to approve new film and tv contracts, ending a struggle that nearly saw 60,000 workers strike last month to demand
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higher pay, guaranteed breaks, and better benefits. a narrow majority of iatse members actually voted down the larger of the two contracts, but the deal was still ratified after it gained a majority of votes under the union's electoral collegestyle voting system. in kenosha, wisconsin, jury deliberations begin today in the trial of kyle rittenhouse, the white teenage gunman who fatally shot two people and wounded a third during protests over the police shooting of jacob blake in 2020. rittenhouse faces five felony charges, including first-degree intentional homicide. on monday, the judge dropped a sixth charge for unlawful weapon possession. during closing arguments, assistant district thomas binger urged jurors to convict rittenhouse. >> there is no doubt in this case that the defendant committed these crimes. he committed a first-degree reckless homicide against joseph rosenbaum, he put richard
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mcginnis' s life in jeopardy. he intended to kill anthony huber and he attempted to kill gauge course for -- all of the settlements are true. amy: during his closing argument, defense attorney mark richards maintained kyle rittenhouse had acted in self-defense. >> kyle shot joseph rosenbaum to stop a threat to his person. i am glad he shot him because joseph rosenbaum had got that gun, i don't for a minute believe he wouldn't have used it against somebody else. he was irrational and crazy. amy: as the jury begins deliberations, wisconsin governor tony evers has put 500 national guard troops are on standby ahead of a verdict. meanwhile, in georgia, the trial is continuing for the three white men who hunted down and shot dead ahmaud arbery, a black jogger. on monday, judge timothy
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walmsley rejected a request from defense attorneys to declare a mistrial. the judge also said it was "reprehensible" for the defense to object to allowing black pastors sit with arbery family's -- family in the courtroom. last week, defense attorney kevin gough said, "we don't want any more black pastors coming in here." he cited the presence of the reverend jesse jackson. >> i would submit with all respect, reverend jesse jackson, that this is no different than bringing in police officers or uniformed prison guards in a small town where young black man has been accused of assaulting a law-enforcement officer or corrections officer. amy: and students at howard university have reached a deal that will bring an end to protests at one of the nation's preeminent historically black universities. since october 12, students have
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been occupying howard's blackburn university center to demand better campus housing amid reports of toxic mold, pests, and crumbling infrastructure in campus dormitories. the students were also demanding better representation and more transparency from howard administrators. an attorney for the students said that while details of the agreement remain confidential, protesters largely accomplished their objectives. and those are some of the headlines this is democracy now,, the war and peace report. when we come back, afghanistan is facing the world's worst humanitarian crisis as millions face starvation with the winter months quickly approaching. we will speak to jan egeland of the norwegian vg cancer, just back from visiting an afghan refugee camp in iran. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]
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amy: this democracy now,, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york,
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joined by my co-host juan gonzález in new brunswick, new jersey. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. amy: we begin today in afghanistan where humanitarian and economic conditions are rapidly deteriorating. on monday, u.s. secretary of state antony blinken held a video call with members of the afghanevac coalition who said they need more help evacuating tens of thousands of people who could be targeted under the taliban government, and noted -- "winter is coming. there is a famine already." the united nations estimates 60%, more than half of afghanistan's population, now suffer from acute hunger and the country faces a financial crisis after the u.s. and other western countries cut off direct financial assistance to the government. taliban leaders are also unable to access billions of dollars in afghan national reserves held in
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banks overseas. the world food program executive director david beasley told the bbc afghanistan is now the worst humanitarian crisis on earth. >> it is as bad as you can possibly imagine. we are looking at the worst humanitarian crisis on earth. 95% of the people don't have enough food and now we are looking at 23 million people marching toward starvation. out of that, almost 9 million are knocking on famineor. the winter months are coming, they're coming out of a drought. the next six month are going to be catastrophic. it is going to be hell on earth. amy: the u.n. estimates half a million people could flee afghanistan by the end of the year. thousands of afghan refugees are now crossing the border into neighboring iran. according to the norwegian refugee council, as many as 5000 afghans are fleeing into iran every day. this could set up another crisis in europe, where the european
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union agreed monday to new sanctions against belarus for bringing some 4000 migrants to the border with poland and leaving them stranded in freezing forests. for more, we are joined by the nrc's secretary general jan egeland, who is in oslo, norway, has just returned from a trip to kerman province in iran where he met with refugees and refugee camp. he said iran alone has displaced than the european countries combined. despite this, the european championship and erecting barbed wire against refugees give negligible funds for displaced afghans elsewhere. his recent "new york times" op-ed is headlined "afghanistan is facing a total economic meltdown." welcome back to democracy now! describe the scope of the catastrophe in afghanistan right now and what you think needs to happen. >> well, i recently was also in
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afghanistan and i sat down with the mothers in these displacement camps around kabul. i asked them, what about the fure? whato you think of the future? they told me very clearly, we believe we will starve and freezeo death this harsh winter unless there is an enormous aid operation coming through and unless there is a public sector that is able to provide services. it is as acute as that. 40 million civilians were left behind when the nato countries went for the door in august. juan: jan egeland, the nato countries not only went for the door, they took all of afghanistan's financial reserves with them as they left. they froze the assets of the afghan government. could you talk about the role of
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this issue of all of them money in afghanistan essentially being held hostage by the western nations that left? >> yes. there is a lot of issues over the last 20 years, and one of them is there was an enormous aid dependency. 0% of teachers, nurses, doctors, engineers, garbage collectors, public workers were on the payroll of western development donors. that was cut overnight. teachers were eager to restart girls and boys education, they have not been paid since may. the banks are paralyzed because of the freezing of assets, so we cannot transfer money to our colleagues in couple the local
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bank system, not even extract money to pay salaries for 2000 aid workers that did not go for the door, who are there to state and deliver, because of this freezing of the economy. the taliban has an enormous responsibility to good governance on the playset they took over, but i sincere believe nato left behind 40 million people. juan: n you talk about the role ofiran and pakistan, which have basically shouldered an enormous refugee population estimates of 3 million afghans in iran alo and the failure of the west to assist these in their efforts to assisthe refues? >> yes, indeed. 90% of afghan refugees -- and there are millions of them --
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chelated since the -- accumulated since the soviet invasion four years ago, 90% of these are in iran and pakistan. they are not in europe, not north america, not in the rich countries. and in ran were i was, getting an education a health re in solon, but the iranian host communities are not getting much international assistance at all. now that 4000, 5000, across every single day, hundred 20,000 since the taliban took over, enemies the afghan refugees in iran are afraid of the future because they think the little they have has to be divided into even smaller portions for those coming over the border. there has to be an investment in hope inside of afghanistan but also in the twowo neighboring
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countries. amy: i want ask about the conditions in the health centers in afghanistan. this is an excerpt from a france 24 program that features haseebullah barakzai, an administrator at wazir mohamad akbar khan national hospital in kabul where patients have to buy their own medicine, gloves, and syringes. the clip begins with masood, a nurse in the hospital. >> you see, we don't have any medicine here. we used to have antibiotics, painkillers, and vitamins but it is empty now. and it discovered, we had medicine for heart patients and we don't even have a tablet left. this watercooler doesn't work anymore. we don't even have water to wash our hands. >> we don't have enough food for the patients. winter is here but we don't have enough fuel for the heating system. amy: afghanistan was already suffering from decades of war, drought, and economic collapse
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prior to the taliban takeover, but now u.n. officials have been warning of a much worse humanitarian crisis in the country with 23 million people facing hunger and 9 million on the brink of starvation. children are bearing the brunt of the crisis. the u.n. has warned that if urgent humanitarian assistance is not provided, more than a million children will die from malnutrition. the bbc spoke to a mother whose two severely malnourished children were hospitalized. >> the pain that he is suffering, i also feel it. only god knows what i go through when i look at him. two of my children are facing death because we don't have any money. i want the world to help afghan people. i don't want any other mother to see their children suffering like this. amy: just some of the voices of afghanistan.
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jan egeland, as juan pointed out, when the taliban toppled afghanistan's government, the country suddenly lost access and $9 billion in central big reserves, frozen by the biden administration. for those countries that are saying we will not support the taliban so we will not give money, what do you say to them? >>ell, i say, correct. many should not go to the military political group called the taliban. the money to go to the people -- and it is possible. number one, there has to be trust fun, as we call it, that is held by you and hc --unhc, money that goes to hospitals that you just showed where people are dying at the moment. it can go straight to the teachers that were on the payroll of the world bank prevusly, can go straight to the gun.
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the money can go through international organizations right to the people. secondly, unfreeze the funds that will enable banks to function again. at the moment, we cannot even by relief items and afghanistan. we have to ship them from pakistan and iran which means -- is dying and afghanistan positive thirdly, see that we are there, we are reliable channels for funding. the money will go to the people. transmit funding. this will not become switzerland. you have to share the risk with us to save lives this winter. juan: jan egeland, isn't it in the interest of nato and the western nations that were in
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afghanistan to assure some kind of an orderly government in afghanistan because if the taliban are not able to deliver basic services to their people, doesn't give the possibility for the rights of even more extremist groups within the country, like isis? >> that could well be. but anyhow, i would argue tha nobody wants an implosion and afghanistan where 40 million people see "i have no hope here, i need to leave." it would go that people would then use the neighboring countries as a segway, a channel to go elsewhere, including to europe where we have worked yourselves up in hysteria for very few thousand migrants on the polish-eu border. hundreds of thousands have now assembled at the iranian-ahan border on the afghan side with
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the intent to get over. iranian refugees i spoke to said, all our relatives have started to wander. they want to come to iran and head toward europe. it is in everybody's interest to stabilize things and afghanistan -- i just listed the three things that can be done. it is not rocket science. we have no time before the massive death starts. amy: i want to turn to hassan esfandiar of the iranian red crescent. he spoke to al jazeera about the difficulties of providing assistance to the thousands of afghans you just described arriving at the border every day. >> due to the current situation, unfortunately, we're not able to receive the international donation assistance because the bankin channels are blocked and and were not able to receive the donations. so far, the red crescent try to
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provide its own sources of the afghan displaced populations approaching the border. as was mentioned in the report by your colleagues, the average number of populations who are approaching the iranian borders, 2000 to 7000 and day, so huge number. amy: jan egeland, the u.s. has sanctions against iran, so how can iran be helped in dealing with this number of refugees that are crossing the border -- 4000, 5000 -- every day. what is getting the west's attention is what is happening and europe. tear gas, water cannons being fired at hundreds of asylum-seekers trying to push their way through razor wire barrier erected along the pole-belarus border. that 4000 to 5000 refugees
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altogether, what is happening, iran, is every day. if you could address this? >> as a european, i'm ashamed at what is happening in our part of the world. what belarus is doing by using vulnerable migrants, just ponds and some kind of a power-play and then you're basically saying, we're not going to hear any asylum applications at all violation of international law -- migrants with the army on either side, wanting them to go in opposing directions. that is europe with aew thousand. in iran, we are having between 3.5 million and 4 million afghans at the moment. i think that has to be sunk in. 4000 a day.
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very small international aid chrome room -- program. the united nations is there with unchr. nrc is there. we could do more. we need more funding. we also asked for more freedom of operation from the iranian authorities so we can win this race against winter on both des of t border, inside afghanistan but also iran and in pakistan. it has to be understood that a lot is at stake. it is not a small catastrophe, it is 23 million people who have no more food . they willwander. i would go if i was in that situation, i would wander to where i could get food for my ildren. juan: jan egeland, the particular role of the united states and all of this as been the primary powers that led the war in afghanistan for so many years and in the biden
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administration suddenly pulling out, what would you urge the biden administration to do now? >> the u.s. should lead as it has in the military political project of the last 20 years, lead in the humanitarian relief operation. unfreeze the assets that is necessary to get the public sector going. the world bank sits on funds -- when i wrote to the world bank president, the answer back was, "well, we're willing to do things if the member states on board, u.s. and others, tell us to release funding. we cannot release money. it is they never teachers, hospitals, and whatnot and afghanistan." and also, enable us as organizations to really work effectively and efficiently on both sides of the border -- iran is making it difficult for us to work to some extent.
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the norwegian refugee council cannot even transfer money for a year after that trump administration started these sections because there was no bank with a backbone strong enough to transfer aid money to our people because they were afraid of coming a day to court in new york because of the potential breakup the sanctions. it is paralyzing for us on the front lines of humanity. amy: jan egeland, the u.n. climate summit just wrapped up in glasgow with a wkened packed that activists, scientists my many governments i falls far short of what is needed to avert a climate catastrophe. you tweeted -- "this deal is better than no deal, but far from achieving climate justice and avert disaster displacements. there are too many carbon spewing spoilers among the negotiators. the fight must now be taken to each and every big polluter."
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name names. talk specifically about what has to be done and how the climate catastrophe generates climate refugees. >> i would start by going to those who intend to burn a lot of coal now, that will lead to -- and afghanistan, iran, both have massive droughts at the moment. it is clate change-fueled. it is a major industrialized nations that has to do most, including china and now india, that are carbon spewing and plaintiff spew out much more carbon in theoming years. call a spade a spade. look at where the emissions come from an all have to come dramatically down. afghans emit nothing.
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they are the first to start because of this -- starv because of this most of the economic chaos and the droughts have created chaos in afghanistan. i was in places and you see how vulnerable they are. they have not emitted anything, really, in recent decades and they first and hardest hit. amy: jan egeland, thank you for being with us, secretary general of the norwegian refugee council. we will link to your "new york times" piece "afghanistan is facing a total economic meltdown." coming up, we look at the u.s.-china summit that took place last night and look more broadly at u.s.-china relations. we will speak to alfred mccoy. his new book out today, "to govern the globe: world orders and catastrophic change." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]
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amy: this is democracy now!,, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. president biden and chinese president xi jinping have spoken for 3.5 hours in a virtual summit monday night. the meeting took place just days after the u.s. and china announced plans to work together to confront the climate emergency. tension has been rising between the two nations with some saying a new cold war is developing. during the summit, xi warned biden that supporting taiwanese independence would be "playing with fire." he also criticized the u.s. for building new alliances in the pacific region to counter china's rise. xi said dividing the world into blocs would "inevitably bring disaster to the world." biden reportedly raised concerns about china's human rights record and what the u.s. has described as "unfair trade and economic policies." both leaders spoke publicly as
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the summit began. this is xi jinping. >> is the world's two largest economies in the permanent members of the u.n. council, china and the united states need to increase communications and cooperation. we should each in our domestic affairs well and at the same time, shoulder our share of international responsibilities and work together for the most noble cause of world peace and development. this is the common aspiration of our people in china and united states as well as the people of all countries in the world. and it is also the common mission of the leaders of china in the united states. a sound chinese have a news relationship is required for bensing our two countries, respective development, and for safeguarding a peaceful and stable international environment, including finding effective responses to global challenges such as climate change and the covid pandemic. amy: and this is president biden
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speaking from the white house at the start of the virtual summit with the chinese president. mr. biden: and happy we found time to meet and look forward to candid discussion michael discussions we've had thus far. it seems to be our responsibility as leaders of china and the united states to ensure the competition between our countries does not hearing conflict whether intended or unintended. it seems to me we need to establish common sense guardrails and be clear and honest where we disagree and work together where our interests intersect, especially on medical issues like climate change. our bilateral relationship seems to me to have a profound impact not only on our countries, but quite frankly, the rest of the world. amy: both men were surrounded by each flag of china and the united states. to talk more about u.s.-china
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relations, we are joined by alfred mccoy, professor of history at the university of wisconsin-madison. his latest book is out today, "to govern the globe: world orders and catastrophic change." mccoy writes -- "while washington was spilling its blood and treasure into desert sands, beijing had been investing much of its accumulated trade surplus in the integration of the 'world island' of africa, asia, and europe into an economic powerhouse." welcome back to democracy now! if you can talk about this summit -- she would not quite understand the kind of tension that is between united states and china right now, the world's two largest economies, but if you can talk about the significance of this and then how close we are to a cold w or hotar witchina. >> the key issue in tes of immediate conflict between
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washington and beijing is taiwan. as you said earlier, amy, president xi of china says the u.s. was fine with fire with taiwan. by way of background, president xi has emitted himself within ina to the reunification of taiwan with china. he once thought to be a critical part of his legacy. on the other side, president biden stated as last month in his town meeting that united states was committedo the defense of taiwan. here we have two leaders taking positions over taiwan, which if they're fully pursued, will lead to conflict. this is another problem for the united states. "the new york times" has reported the pentagon has war gained a war over taiwan between noted states and china in in the last 18 of these wargames, the united states has lost 18 times. china has the world's most
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sophisticated anti-ballistic missiles, the most sophisticated missile defense. taiwan is extremely close to china. and the united states moved aircraft carriers into the taiwan strait like we did in less conflict in the 1990's, china could destroy those aircraft carriers and sink them. the united states and the immediate future is facing the possibility of fighting a war over taiwan. if that conflict emerged, the u.s. would have to either retreat in defeat and see taiwan concord or the united states would have to go to work and fight a war that would probably lose. there's a deeper struggle going on. over the past five centuries, every world hegemon has done one thing the same way most -- from portugal to highland to britain to the nine states and now china has dominated the eurasian
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landmass, which today is home to 70% of the worlds population our productivity. with $4 trillion that china made by 2014 as a result of its open trade with the united states, china has invested $1.2 trillion in this massive infrastructure, laying down a steel grid of rail, road, and gas pipeline, integrating the best eurasian landmass into a single market in which trained and powered as if by natural law is going to flow toward bjing. chinis also working to break the u.s. geopolitil hold over the easian landmass. during the cold war, we controlled what are known as the axios ends of eurasia, treaties.
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from these two axial positions, we ringed eurasia with millions of steel and aircraft carrier, jets, fighter-bombers, to dominate eurasia. now china is punching through circles of steel, breaking the u.s. geopolitical group over eurasia. and consolidating its control. moreover, china has built 40 ports ringing the eurasian landmass and the coast of africa. so the combination of this geopolitical circling of the coastlines of eurasia, combined with this massive grid of infrastructure across the continent, is placing china in control where it is going to dominate the eurasian landmass. that is the key to geopolitical power. has been for the last five centuries and will likely be for
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the rest of the century as well. juan: professor, i would like to ask a couple of things. first of all, we talked about china and u.s. as if they are two separate economic spheres. often they are regarded that way in competition. it hasn't american capitalism depended for decades on the chinese working class to produce its goods at low which levels? so in a growing rit between china and the u.s., which economy is likely to suffer the more profound of people? >> that is the key difference in people talk about a new cold war,hat is the difference between the old cold war as you correctly pointed out. it is the economic interdependence of these two global superpowers. since 2001, china has integted its economy into the u.s. supply chain. the two economies are intertwined.
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they cap are as much as 40% of world trade together. there is no way this is going to be segregated. the u.s. consumer economy is integrated with chinese factories. they are economically interdependent. that is the key difference. on the other hand, the competion is also very, very real. china is helping to surpass the united states economically. by the end of this decade, china's economy is going to b according to pricewaterhousecoopers, going to be at least 50% larger than the u.s. economy. that is going to give china enormous you cannot leverage memo over, by the end of this decade, i think it will be able to survive ieconomic break in the united states because they are spreading that control
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around the globe. they are superseding as. in terms of real value, what you can buy yuan or dollar, china's probably larger than the u.s. economy but by the end of the decade, it will be clearly larger, at least 50%. from the economic trol china will be able to expand its military in a number of military fields like enter ballistic missiles, they're already ahead of us. they are building their navy and will be working hard to push us beyond what china calls the first island chain, which america calls -- that string of islands off the coast of asia, japan, through okinawa, taiwan, and all the way down to australia. china is supposed to push us out of that. they want to push us back. they want to split the pacific ocean. the middle. china's navy is getting to the point where they might be able to do at. juan: let me ask you on this
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issue of the move toward hegemony the site of the chinese nation and economy, isn't there a big difference in terms of the use of military force? the last time i recall china was engaged in a shooting war was more than 40 years ago in vietnam work with vietnam --or with vietnam. in that 40 year period, the united states has been involved military -- this is a declining economic power that has been involved in military interventions in panama, grenada, libya, afghanistan, two wars in iraq, the balkans, not to mention the military attacks and drone strikes in yemen, somalia, pakistan -- this is all a permit for which china has been involved in no military intervention. china has all these ports, but it does not have the worldwide dilatory presence that would make it what would be called an
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aggressor nation, don't you think? close your accounting of our recent history is accurate. two things about that. first of all, the last 20 years, the bulk of our military operations as we all know has been focused in the greater middle east. the strategic logic of that was in effect securing the middle eastern oil, giving us a permanent presence that would give us access to oil. we were doing that at a time when that oil was about to join superseded sources of fuel. we administered atria dollars, $10 trillion in securing a commodity which was passing into the dustbin of history. it was a gross strategic this calculation. when history of u.s. empire is written starting in 2030 when it is over, that will probably go
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down as one of the greatest strategic miscalculations in u.s. history. and in militarily, the point of naval expansion is not so much complex -- most people don't understand that. they think of it in terms of war. but what do vies do? the oceans are a global comment. the whitener rising global hegemon, constant patrols, dominance over those open spaces -- to climate strategically and also in terms of the minerals and fishing beneath the sea, to claim that as well. so that is what china is doing. china is weaving those lines of constant patrols by air and see all the way to the first island chain, pushing us back, building on the basis in the south china
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sea, pushing into the east china sea. it is part of an imperial game that has been played for 500 years. china idoing that quite successfully. amy: professor, recently wrote a piece for tom dispatch headlined "the winter in afghanistan: china." why do you believe that china has emerged stronger after the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan? talk about what geopolitical role afghanistan plays in the difference in how the lesson engaged in this forever war in afghanistan and china's relationship with it. >> sure. in terms of president xi's strategy, which hennounced in 2013, what he was going to do and what he has been doing is turning the vast eurasian
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landmass into a single market led by infrastructure. if you will, the hole in the doughnut -- a metaphor, apologies -- was afghanistan. in terms of that network of massive natural gas pipelines going across the heart of central asia, the one connection that could not be made was from central asia down to the energy-deficit areas of pakistan and india. that had to pass through afghanistan. by ringing afghanian with the gas pipelines to the north, the china-pakistan economic border to the east, and then just this year a massive economic agreement between china and fossil fuel to build rail and gas pipelines, in effect, china surrounded afghanistan with these lines of steel and was
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just waiting for afghanistan to fall into its hands without a shot fired. in july, a month before the taliban took power, they sent a top-level delegation to china and met with china's foreign minister. and they worked out an agreement the taliban would promote and allow chinese investment. there's another great price in afghanistan. geologists estimate there is about $1 billion of rare earth minerals, critical for the construction of lithium batteries -- which are going to fuel our transport and much of our reserve power as we switch from fossil fuels to solar power -- afghanistan has $1 billion of rare earth minerals that are very valuable to china and the whole international economy. china will begin developing those in conjunction with the taliban. in effect, china sat back, surrounded afghanistan with its geopolitical network and waited
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for it to fall into its hands. and they did not pay a dollar. and we spent $8 trillion on afghanistan and got nothing . juan: professor, i wanted to ask you, in this conflict between china and the united states, these two countries are not alone, obviously. the belt and road initiative is meant to win friendship and support china from other parts of the world. i'm wondering if you could talk about countries like russia and iran you mentioned in terms of where they would stand in a developing conflict with the united states and also about latin america, which china has probably been the only major power to make significant inroads into a continent or an area of the world these to be considered u.s. backyard. >> first of all, china has was
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it strategy of resource development with latin america. it's trade with our southern neighbors is already larger than her own. the core of china's strategy is the father of modern geopolitics. british geographer called the world island and looked at the map in 19 oh four, over 100 years ago, and he said, let's look at the map radically. he said, what we see is there are three continents together that form the world island. europe, asia, and africa. he said whoever dominates the pivot region, the heart and cenal dominates the world. from his perspective, these three comments were the whole of geopolitical power. and then the were some small outlying islands like greenland
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and north america and south america. part of china's strategy has been -- and this dates back all the way to the 1970's -- to very seriously developed africa and to bring africa in the world economy through chinese aid, javelin it, and trade. at the same time during the cold war that we work planning a 20-year game in angola, to disrupt and break the marxist government, which did not work in the end and we were alive with apartheid south africa, china was building a railroad from tanzania across the breath of africa. its first major international development a project. china from that basis only back to the 1970's built relations with the liberation governments which are now the main governments in the southern half of africa. china has brought africa very much into the international
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economy. china is by far and awathe investor and africa. we regard africa as the band-d and it is very well motivated of course, but again, we see sort of africa as a charity case. china, by contrast, sees africa as a key to its emerging world power. it is home to nearly one third of humanity. enormous amount of natural resources. potential markets. china is building a very close relationship with africa as a part of this try continental strategy. to dominate the core of humanity, the core of the modern economy. amy: finally, professor, i want you end new different place but there may be a connection and that is the insurrection of january 6. you write in another piece about how this reminded you of a coup you witnessed in the philippines decades ago.
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>> yeah. in 1986, i was in the philippines and a source tipped me off the marcos government -- marcos had fled into exile to hawaii. the great people power uprising, and million filipinos establishing a democracy. amy: we have 30 seconds. >> his loyalist met and seized the manila hotels and they shook looking democracy to the point there were succession of major coups, armed to that really shook the philippine democracy. what i learned from this is democracy is very fragile. that january 6 uprising in washington, d.c., was a coup and it has shaken our democracy to the core. we have to be very serious about constructing our democracy after that episode. amy: we will leave it there but 70 other issues to discuss.
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alfred mccoy, professor of history at the university of wisconsin-madison. his newest book is out today called "to govern the globe: world orders and catastrophic change."
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