tv MSNBC News Live MSNBC November 10, 2011 9:00am-10:00am PST
p perry, also, the fall from grace for college football's winningest coach. >> joe paterno is no longer the head football coach effective immediately. >> penn state's board of trustees made the decision last night, firing graham spanier and legendary coach, joe paterno. >> you guys are great, all of you. >> paterno greeted hundreds of supporters outside of his home. the protests turned violent. >> why were they not in the streets in outrange over the victims? >> meanwhile, a ninth victim has come forward. a grand jury report raises questions of a cover-up. >> you don't want to read this report because it's hideous.
>> according to a report, a grad yat assistant told paterno he saw sandusky assaulting a boy who looked about 10 years old in 200 2. >> i think joe blew it. you see a situation like that. it's not about going to tell your higher up. >> former player, shocked and disappointed. >> i put a lot of pride in my school. and coaching staff, so for this to go op on, it's heartbreaking. >> guys like joe paterno are treated like gods. when we find out differently, he wanted one more saturday, he didn't even deserve that. >> joining me now, nfl hall of famer -- and ron mott on the penn state campus. what's the mood like now? >> dra matly different.
on the streets, students voicing their displeasure at how coach paterno was fired, by telephone. 46 years as head coach here, more than 50 years on this campus. this is day one in the post joe paterno era. today, the university announced the new coach, tom bradley, a familiar name for the penn state faithful here. he is the man that replaced jerry san ddusky, the former assistant coach at the center of this fire storm here. he had this to say about stepping in and trying to fill in the shoes of an iconic coach. >> i take this job with very mixed emotions due to the situation and i will proceed in the manner that the penn state expects as i met with the
players last night and today, the expectations were not for that. >> now, coach bradley seemed to be only interested in answering questions with respect to his job now and the big game on saturday. it's senior day for members of the football team. he was asked a number of questions about the culture of the football program. what coaches knew, answered those questions with an investigation still underway, but this campus, there's a mood of sadness and a lot of shock about how this all went down. not just for coach paterno, but the well respected president of this institution was here 16 year, graham spanier. it's going to be an interesting rest of the week if not the next few months or perhaps years. >> ron, thank you.
let's bring in former nfl hall of famer, franco harris, who played for coach paterno at penn state. as you watch this play out over the past few days, what's going through your head, your heart as well? >> craig, i try to put the whole scenario together and look at it from different sper perspectives. i'm upset for the board for the firing of joe paterno and -- >> why? why are you upset at the board for firing paterno? >> i think that that added to the frenzy of the -- on the focus of joe. there's a bigger picture here
than joe. there's the abuses of jerry sandusky and also, people are talking about a cover-up. these are the big pieces of this whole scandal. >> there are a will the of folks out there, a lot of folks out there nine kids right now, the ninth came forward yesterday, who claimed they were abused by sandusky. all of this happens on paterno's watch and joe-pa doesn't go to the police. he goes to the administration. there are a lot of folks who think the coach should have gone to the cops. >> i'd like to make a correction there. that was not during joe pa's watch. jerry sandusky was no longer under the authority of coach paterno. when the situation happened, you know, joe paterno went to the university, okay, this is a university matter. no longer a football matter for joe. and when joe went to the
administration, he went there and passed measures on to the very confident people and you would think they would do their job. and now when joe says i wish i would have done more and i look at it where joe's thinking, well, you know what? those guys didn't do their job. >> but franco -- >> i should have done more because they didn't do theirs. >> when the first boy identified as victim number seven in that 23-page grand jury indictment, this was 1994. he was under paterno's watch at that point. >> okay, in 1998, i'm not sure talking about the 1994, under joe-pa's watch, there was an incident at penn state. okay? that, that incident went all the way to the ad in that area and
to local police. >> so, you think -- >> and like that was under joe-pa's watch when he was under joe-pa and that's exactly what happened. now they send up saying that you know, that no criminal charges were filed. and why that happened, i don't know. but you know, what is joe paterno thinking that okay, well, we took it all the way to local police and the ad and no criminal charges were filed. >> franco, you're an honorary board member of sandusky's second mile charity. started as a group that was an orphan home for at-risk youth. it's become a massive statewide organization. they've taken in millions of dollars to help kids. looking back, did you ever see anything that looking back now you -- >> craig, i want to say that
jerry's reach was far reaching. everybody loved jerry and everybody knew jerry. and the second mile program is a great program. i mean, so many kids benefitted from it and you know, really makes you sick at your stomach knowing that while thousands and thousands of kids are betted, that you know, there are theed kids that -- >> franco, it's -- it may sound to some at home, it may sound like you are defending joe paterno and jerry sandusky to a certain extent. is that the -- >> no, no, no i'm defending joe pater paterno, not jerry sandusky. i was defending the second mile program, that it's a great program and unfortunately, we have the founder take advantage of that situation. i'm no way, my supporting jerry
sandusky, but you're absolutely right. i am supporting joe paterno and i wish the board would have supported joe paterno. one thing about joe is that he has courage and he doesn't back down from a fight. this board backed down from a fight. >> so, you -- i want to ask you really quickly here about mike mcqueary of course. in 2002, he was the graduate. he was the guy who saw sandusky having sex with a boy in the shower. some are suggesting that mcqueary himself should have down something to stop the alleged sex act and then gone on to the cops. do you think he should bow out? will he be a distraction on the sidelines? >> that's not my call. will it be a distraction? i'm sure it will be b for some people. that's going to be tom bradley's call. but when you look at certain
situations, now everybody talking now, talks about what i would have done. everybody thinks they're going to be this hero that in that situation in 2002, would have made a, you know, that okay, listen, i would have done this. i would have done this. and you know, like it's easy to talk after the fact. seven years later. and when they put this on joe, when i mentioned that when joe reported the two superiors who were competent people and people who should take care of the situation -- zblu. >> but franco, but those people aren't law enforcement and when you have someone who comes to you and say, hey, you know what? we saw a defensive coordinator taking showers with little boys. we saw the defensive coordinator having sex with a boy who appeared to be 10 years old. there are a lot of folks that say, should have gone to the cops. not to your superior. >> no, no, no.
see, that's where irng, you know, that's where i disagree. people can say listen, yeah, everybody should do this, but like i would say 95% of people would go through superiors thinking that your superiors who are competent would do their job and go to police. >> have you talked to paterno yourself? >> no, i haven't, but i hope to very soon. >> thank you very much. appreciate your time. >> thank you. we turn to politics now. gop presidential candidate rick perry in full spin control mode today making the media rounds this morning. he said, quote, this ain't a day for quitting nothing. his already troubled campaign created one of those youtube moments last night that folks will be playing over and over -- >> and i will tell you, it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone. commerce, education and the what's the third one there? let's see -- >> five.
>> commerce, education and the -- >> epa. >> epa, there you go. >> let's talk -- >> seriously? is the epa the one you were talking about? >> no, sir, we were talking about the agencies of government. >> but you can't name the third one? >> the third agency of government, i would do away with the education, the -- >> commerce. >> commerce and let's see, i can't. the third one i can't, sorry. oops. >> oops. this morning, perry owned up to the gaffe. tried to make the best of it. >> i will tell you, i don't mind saying clearly that i stepped in it last night, but i think i'm kind of like most americans and there are so many agencies of government out there we'd like to forget, that the department of energy was one of those.
>> joining me now, a man who's become a bit of a youtube situation as a result of this, john harwood. good afternoon to you. that one moment took up most of the air in last night's debate. let's dissect it for a moment here. perry stumbles, then romney suggests epa. was romney actually trying to help out perry? >> you know, i couldn't tell. it was a bit of a confusing moment because people were laughing and you know, perry was making light of himself and when romney said epa and he said, yeah, epa, that's right, that's when i said to him, so, is that the one you were talking about, i was trying to figure out if he completed what he was stumbling on. you've got to sympathize with him. you and i make our living in front of cameras, we all have
brain freezes, but when you're a presidential candidate -- and are trying to restart the momentum. >> you have all the people that could have afforded the mistake the least is probably rick perry. we've got eight weeks now until caucus and primary season begins. perry coming into this debate with more to prove than any other candidate. how badly do you think he damaged his prospects last night with that performance? >> you can't rule out any candidate who's got $15 million in the bank and is just beginning to put it on television. that's traditionally our campaigns where our candidates have figured out whether they could gain attraction from the voters. he's running positive ads in iowa, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina is where he's got to break through, but given how he has fallen in the polls, the bad reviews of his debate performances, the questions about whether he's up to this campaign i think raising money now is going to get much more difficult, so this is a real gut
check moment for perry and his donors. he said ain't a time for quits. seems to be a theme in the republican campaign. when herman cain said ain't going to happen when asked if he was going to drop out out of race. there's an opening on the right of romney and nobody's been able to do it so far, which is great news for romney. >> john harwood did not lose his place at all there. no stumbling at all. appreciate that. thank you, sir. >> i think they might have seen that moment in bora bo rrk a last night. the jon huntsman campaign on the other hand is getting a much needed lift today. debate review rs in solid for the former ambassador and governor. joining me now, tim miller, spokesman for the huntsman campaign. good afternoon to you, sir. you're in new hampshire now. eight weeks until is season starts.
how o do you leverage the good performance into momentum? >> we feel very good about last night, obviously, and as voters start tuning into this race, they're going to be looking for a candidate that fits two main cry tier na. one, consistent, reliable conservative they can trust on key issue of the day and two, a candidate that's able to beat barack obama last november and last night, jon huntsman showed he's the one guy that meets those two criteria. >> let me ask you about one moment in particular during the debate. your candidate talking about china. talking about trade policy. and this is what he said. >> you can throw out applause lines and say you're going to slap on tariffs. >> would you say he's pandering on this issue? >> i've said it before, i think that policy is one of simply pandering. >> why not look mitt romney in the eye right there? why hold your punch? why not look him square in the eye and say, hey, i'm talking
about you. here's the problem i have. here's the problem a lot of republican voters have as well. >> i think he very clearly distinguished himself from romney on the issue of china last night. pandering on the issue during a recession isn't going to bring jobs to this country. jon huntsman understands china better than anybody on that stage, better than almost anybody in this country and he's ready as commander in chief to negotiate with china in a way that deals with the monetary policy positively for this country. i thought he distinguished himself from romney on that and other issues very clearly last night. >> you're still lagging behind in virtually every major national poll are considerably. you haven't risen about 5% in any major poll. at what point do you guys start to say if not this particular caucus, this particular primary, we're going to get out? >> well, look, 30 days ago, all
the pundits declared this a two-person race between romney and perry. after last night, that's not the case. what we want is a steady, substantive rise that begins here in new hampshire -- >> is new hampshire -- >> new hampshire's very important and we can see positive -- >> very important or do or die? >> new hampshire is is absolutely important. we have to play very well in new hampshire in january and we intend to. jon huntsman's going to be a comeback kid because voters can trust him on the key issues of the day unlike romney and some of the other foeblgs on that stage. >> thank you for your time, sir. more on the republican debate and the subject no candidate seemed to want to talk about. can the united states realistically do nothing about europe's financial crisis? tuall. that way i could split my payments up into, like, little bite-size chunks. yeah, i mean you feel me right? i mean... yeah. uh, sir... ah... [ male announcer ] layaway's back for christmas in our electronics, toys, and jewelry departments.
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u.s. stocks are bouncing back from yesterday as investors are hopeful european leaders are working to prevent the crisis from getting worse. you can see the dow up just over 100. s&p, nasdaq also up. meanwhile sh greece's interim government has a new prime minister. that country trying to secure $177 billion aid package. when the crisis came up last night, take a listen to what the candidates had to say. >> focus on the domestic economy first. there's not a lot that the united states can directly do right now. >> europe is able to take care of their own problems cht we don't want to bail out their banks and governments. they have the capacity to deal with that themselves. >> if, if you want a window into what this country's going to look like in the future, you're seeing it play out in europe.
>> it doesn't make any difference whether it's wall street or some corporate entity or some european country. if you are too big to fail, you are too big. >> want to get more from ron insana. what do you make of the gop candidates not wanting to touch the european financial crisis last night? instead sticking to the domestic economy. >> i can't imagine that anybody wants to touch it craig. the federal reserve has gotten involved as it's provided dollar liquidity to struggling banks who need to fund themselves. they haven't been able to do it successfully in europe, so they've turned to these swap li lines between the fed and other banks. there's not going to be a direct bailout by the united states. so the international monetary fund which is largely financed by the u.s. is going to have a role, so no one will make a direct statement, but we're all in on europe. already on the united states.
i can't -- whether you're republican or democrat, nobody's going to go all in to help europe in that regard. >> what can we make of the markets? seemingly bouncing back today. >> it's bouncing back a little bit. it appears italy has moved up its budget vote to the weekend. berlusconi may resign by sunday. greece is shoring up its situation a bit. this crisis is far from over. there are a lot of details missing on how any bailout program will get funded, whether or not italy sinking further and yields rise faster. these questions are still open. the market's bouncing a little bit, also. jobless claims fell 10,000 to 395,000 claims. that's a seven-month who, so the u.s. again, whether you want to call it the best house in a bad neighborhood, still looks good on a relative basis and starting to look good on an absolute basis. >> best house in a bad neighborhood. ron, thank you.
appreciate that. we're going to look at more answers from last night. could they spell trouble at an important primary that's just two months from now? we'll look at that also, the comparisons being drawn between the penn state child sex abuse investigation and the scandal that rock ed a catholic church. [ coughs ] what is this shorty? uh, tissues sir, i'm sick.
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welcome back to msnbc. iran's supreme leader the warning the response will be tough should its arch enemies receive a military strike. that coming after a report was released after suspecting iran of conducting secret expermits for the sole purpose of developing nuclear arms. a search is underway after wilson ramos was kidnapped. last night, four arm eed arrive at the home of his mother and took him away. a day before veteran's day, the senate is expected to approve part of obama's jobs bill. senators are also expected to
repeal a with holding tax on government contractors and reggie love, the president's personal assistant, is planning to leave the white house by the end of the year. love was a forward for the duke blue devils basketball team. this saturday, penn state will play its first football game without joe paterno calling the shots. instead, it will be tom bradley on the sidelines as interim coach amid the scandal that has rocked the athletic program and the university to its core. in addition to the shocking allegations, there are lots of questions about who knew what, when and why nothing was said. as anne thompson reports, it's raising a parallel that's too strong to ignore. >> penn state football is the latest institution to learn the high cost of silence. just as the boy scouts of america did, losing a multi-million dollar sex abuse case last year. >> no jury has returned a
verdict against the boy scouts of america this level ever. >> and most notoriously, the catholic church. >> accusations of a cover up of yet another powerful member of the catholic high ki. >> almost ten years ago, "the boston globe" broke the story of priests abusing minors. shattering the arch di cease and the faith of many americans. >> the institution overrode the importance of taking care of children and that's what happened here, too, and all over the country. >> critics say these are institutions of power, secrecy, dominated by men who circle the wagons in a crisis. >> we have to learn that we must come down like a ton of bricks on men who hide and ignore child sex crimes. quiet resignation, sudden retirements, that doesn't cut
it. >> in today's "new york times," jonathan maller writes both the church and penn state in the face of a moral imperative to act, chose silence. no one more so says muller than coach joe paterno. >> this man who had prided himself on molding young men. who was this paradigm of character and virtue, behaved like a coward. >> tonight, people are asking how a program like penn state, that followed ncaa rules to the letter, couldn't follow a very basic human rule. when you think you see a child being sexually abused, call the police. turning to politics now. herman cain back peddling and apologizing for an unfortunate comment he made last night in reference to the former speaker of the house. >> congress, it was hr 3400 and
what that does, it's already been written. we didn't hear about it in the previous congress because princess nancy sent it to committee and it stayed there. it never came out. >> after the debate, carl called him on it. >> given the controversy surrounding you and women, do you not feel like that was trying to start to juggle when you're already having to uni cycle? >> i wouldn't put it in those terms. that was a statement that i probably should have not have made, but i was trying to make a point. >> jim rootenberg has been covering the cain campaign for the "new york times." what do you make of the latest situation? >> well, it's definitely was a poorly worded, times statement by mr. cain and a little fresh news, a little bit ago at a diner in michigan, he was asked again and said i apologize, but appeared a little angered by the question and noted that miss pelosi did not apologize when
she called the tea party an astro turf movement. >> you mentioned the incident in michigan today. speaking to reporters. last night, he apologized for the remark. he was told reporters to stop asking about it. are we heading for another blame the media moment with this campaign? >> that happens every four years. i think so. again, the cain situation to me is sort of on a precipice. anything new that comes out, more faces, more names in the ongoing scandal relating to sexual harassment allegations. would tip it one way, maybe he skates past it now. the voters in the diner today said they didn't believe these charges and wanted to move on. >> anything new today in regards to the sexual harassment allegations sm. >> the two named women, karen kraushaar and sharon bialek, are apparently still discussing some kind of press briefing.
no ward on the other two. >> if they do that, what do we learn from that press briefing that we haven't already heard? >> that's a great question and i think it's a key question. does karen kraushaar kind of add more details to her story. does that have an effect of bringing this up again anew or do people say, we know this and this is not that new to us and voters will then make their decisions. we don't know. >> jim, as always, thank you. >> thank you. herman cain and the rest of candidates are doing either victory laps or damage control while everyone is talking about the perry gaffe. there's actually a lot more from last night's debates that could influence primary and caucus season, which is a very short eight weeks away. joining us, julian epstein, david winston. good day to both of you. we'll get to that gaffe and cain
in just a second. let's talk mitt romney first here. he has a message and that is that he is anything but a flip-flopper. take a listen. >> i think people know me pretty well. i think people understand that i'm a man of steadyness and constancy. i don't think you're going to find somebody who has more of those at beauts than i do. i've been married to the same woman for 25 -- excuse me, i get in trouble. 42 years. i've been in the same church by entire life. if i'm president of the united states, i will be true to my family, to my faith and to our country. >> david, romney got excellent marks in the debate. is he winning over the base with arguments like that? no one's questioning his loyalty to his wife or company. they've questioned his loyalty regarding policy. >> no, and clearly he was trying to address that in that response and that's the big challenge the
romney campaign has had. if you look at where he stands at the polls, he's been at the same point for months. you've seen the rise and fall of bachmann, perry, and he doesn't seem to have moved. i think clearly the campaign recognizes, he's trying to address it and i suggest that's the strategic challenge his campaign is facing and we'll see what happens. last night, that was the first step to address that. >> julian, will he be, will romney become the nominee by default? will he be the last man standing? >> he was the favorite right now, but i think david makes a right point. if romney were running against bernie madoff, he probably couldn't get more than 25% of the vote. republican voters seem to be looking for a sane conservative and they're looking around the room and can't find one. it's the strangest thing. this starts to feel like a "star
trek" convention. perry, last night, sounded like a dim wit on ambien. cane has his hand. there's no conservative emerging that the voters really like. >> let's talk about the perry campaign. the irony is that energy is supposed to be the issue. a spokesman has called this a quote stumble of style, but not substance. do you agree with that? >> it was just a hard moment to watch and i think anybody who watched it, it was just painful. even maybe if you didn't like rick perry, even you had some sympathy. the problem he has is he had this narrative of having difficulty in the primaries or debates rather and having difficulty in terms of the one speech in new hampshire and that sort of fit into that narrative. he's going to have to do a lot to dig himself out of this one. i thought last night was pretty
devastating. >> i want to show jou an exchange here. newt gingrich. take a look. >> what is amazing to me is the inability of much of our academic world, most of our news media and people on occupy wall street to have a clue about history. it's sad that the news media doesn't report accurately how the economy works. >> what is the media reporting inaccurately about the economy? >> what? >> what is the media reporting inaccurately about the economy? >> i love humor disguised as a question. that's terrific. >> is that the right strategy there? >> i think gingrich's strategy is in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. none of the other competitors beyond romney seem to be getting any traction. gingrich has always been a bit of a poser when it comes to his
intellectualism. i don't see where that gets him. i think he's waiting for his turn on the merry go round and that may come. republican front-runners have a longevity shorter than a kardashian wedding. >> i got to cut you off. i don't want to, but we're out of time. gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. james murdoch back on the hot seat again about a phone hacking scandal. a live report from london, next. and the congressman apologizing after apparently becoming a bit unhinged. he screamed at a postal worker at a town hall meeting of sorts. >> it's so easy to sit there and just go and say -- [ male announcer ] our nation's veterans are real-life heroes.
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a low fat diet with fish oil supplements appears to slow the growth of prostate cancer in just a few weeks. researchers examined prostate tissue samples from people who had eaten a low fat diet for four to six weeks and found actual changes in the cells. these changes helped slow the growth of cancer, making it easier to treat. news corp. executive james murdoch is in the hot seat again today, answering more questions about the scandal that rocked the u.k. and forced the news of the world to shut down. he rejected allegations that he was a quote mafia boss in front of british lawmakers in his second appearance before parliament in just the past four months. stephanie gosk is live in london with more. >> the issue here is really when did james murdoch fully understand the scope of the phone hacking at news of the
world. he and his father said they didn't understand fully that scope until 2010, but after that, two former news of the world former executives testified there was evidence as far back as 2008 that the scope of this problem was widespread throughout the paper and that murdoch himself should have known. so members of parliament said we're going to bring him back in and have him address this issue specifically. today, he denied and stuck to his story that he didn't know about this, the scope of this problem until 2010. he went a bit further and said that colin meier, a former editor of the paper, misled parliament and deliberatery kept murdoch in the dark over that period of time in 2008. placing a lot of blame on his shoulders. now, interestingly, this was not just about murdoch responding to members of parliament and their questions. this has a larger scope.
shareholders are watch thg closely to see whether james murdoch is really capable of taking over for his father, rupert murdoch, when he decides it's time to retire. he had this to say about the future of the company and what they've learn frd this entire scandal. >> what i'm trying to do is learn from the events over the last number of years. try to understand why the company couldn't come to grips with the, some of the issues in front of it in its fast away as i would have liked or the company would have liked and learn from those. >> shareholders will now have to decide how he did today, how he did over the sum ir and how badly this scandal has hurt his ability to run the company. >> stephanie gosk from london for us. thank you. side bar now. republican congressman joe walsh is apologizing for a rant that was caught on tape and has spread like wildfire on youtube.
>> don't blame banks and don't blame the marketplace for the mess we're in right now! i am tired of hearing that [ bleep ]. i am tired of hearing that [ bleep ]. >> the situation, taking -- they know they couldn't afford it? >> there are already mechanisms in place -- you know, this is [ bleep ] me off. >> walsh now admitting that he became quote, a bit too passionate. he said in a statement he has apologized to the woman in that video as well. also, herman cain, the allegations have cost him an endorsement. the american mus tach. it says with the number of allegations mounting, it could not in good conscious, continue to support mr. cain. and while organized labor may be celebrate iing in ohio,
stewart says it's not much of a victory. >> ohio voters by a nearly 2-1 margin repealed a new law restricting the collective bargaining laws of state and local employee unions. >> this is a huge defeat for governor casic and a huge victory for organized labor. >> wow, this is what it's come to for organized labor. a huge victory means unions will be allowed to continue to exist. this is the biggest night since 1992's we don't have to use a sick day to celebrate christmas victory. [ thunder rumbles ] what is the sign of a good decision? in the world of personal finance, it's massmutual. find strength and stability in a company that's owned by its policyholders. ask your advisor, or visit massmutual.com.
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another road plok for the congressional super committee as it tries to find an agreement on budget savings. let's go to kelly o'donnell. what's the latest? >> this seems to be a roadblock because both sides are sort of pointing some fingers saying they've each made concessions, but it doesn't seem to be good
enough for the other part. republicans claim they have really given something by being willing to include new tax revenue. that would be by trimming back some deductions that would bring in more money and hoping for economic growth. democrats have given a lot, giving up entitlement programs. one of the co-chairs says he believes the democrats have been working in good faith, but there's a loft grumbling behind the scenes from both parties saying the other side isn't doing enough. all of this is getting down to the wire because they have just two weeks to get something done before the deadline. if they were to fail, then a whole host of cuts would be triggered. there are a lot of questions about is this one of those situations where one side is trying to get a political gain or trying to get something done and that's really where the heart of this debate is. craig? >> the heart of just about every debate down there. thank you so much. appreciate that. thank you so much for watching. we'll see you back here
tomorrow, noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. out west. up next, "andrea mitchell report reports". up next, is the damage beyond repair for rick perry? we'll go through last night's debate with john harwood and chris cillizza. plus, paterno's out at penn state as the sex abuse scandal continues to unfold. will there be more charges or victims to come forward? and stocks on the rebound today after wednesday's big plunge. the latest on the european debt crisis and its impact on u.s. markets. i'd race down that hill without a helmet. i took some steep risks in my teens. i'd never ride without one now. and since my doctor prescribed lipitor, i won't go without it for my high cholesterol and my risk of heart attack. why kid myself? diet and exercise weren't lowering my cholesterol enough.
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