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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  November 18, 2011 8:00am-9:00am PST

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if true, they may confirm peoples' darkest fears. this case is bigger than anyone imagined. this is another university is rocked by a child sex abuse investigation. bernie fine now on leave accused of inappropriately touching two ball boys. . accident or murder. investigators reopen the death of natalie wood from three decades ago. and will newt tell the truth? he may release more information today about his payments from freddie mac as we get new details about millions paid to his firm from the health care industry. hi, everybody. good to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts. we want to get to this. penn state faculties senate is holding a conference about the sex abuse scandal. the investigation may soon become a federal case. prosecutors and the fbi are
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looking very hard at allegations that jerry sandusky may have crossed state lines to commit child abuse. the university's board of trustees has retained a law firm with 1,700 attorneys. overnight at the sandusky's home, a window appears to have been smashed there. they have no report of an incident. we have two clients' attorney here with us. what was the reaction of the interview jerry sandusky gave and was that the reason the new victim came forward and contacted you? >> it's fair to say, they both felt revictimized by what mr. sandusky had done. you have a victim who was victimized during the process of the assault itself.
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then when you have the denial of the assault, the victim is again victimized through the perpetrator. it is fair to say that the victims coming forward now, they are deciding that it's the appropriate time to support those who have come forward before them. because mr. sandusky is now denying that these allegations happened. they feel it's appropriate to support those who have gone through the same thing. >> the grand jury report talks about eight different victims. in this 23-page report, is this latest victim in the report? and does he add into the timeline that we all read about? >> to answer your first question, no, he's not identified in the grand jury presentment. and to answer your second question as to the timeline, i think he sets the beginning of the timeline. he was sexually assaulted in the early '90s.
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>> when did he meet jerry sandusky or how did he meet him? through the charity, the second mile? >> yes. he met him through the second mile program. >> through the talks that you have had with these two different clients, i understand you had an opportunity to speak with other family members as well. you believe other victims will come forward. what type of pattern of behavior are you learning from the victims and their stories and how they match up to the behavior of jerry sandusky? >> i think that we see, and i can really only comment on what's contained in the grand jury presentment, but there's no doubt we see a grooming process. a pattern of behavior by jerry sandusky that's evident through the presentment. >> there's an instinct for those suffering from abuse. just get through it. a lot of the people coming back later in life to reveal what
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happened to them are now turning around to confront something that's been chasing them for a long time. can you tell us, are the people you have spoken with, are they currently now seeking help and seeing counsels trying to get through what they experienced? >> there's a natural defense mechanism that many of the sexual assault victims often try to bury their hurt and pain. sometimes there's a trigger that causes them to come forward. once they come forward, we want to make sure we put them in a position where they can get the therapy or counselling sessions that they need. >> we all know how the catholic church responded initially to the reports of sexual abuse allegations against the church. they circled the wagons and closed up shop and denied everything and tried to move most of those priests around. what has penn state done in response to so many victims that have come forward?
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what type of help are they offering? >> at this point in time, i haven't heard from the university, which is somewhat disappoi disappoi disappointing. i hope the university would take whatever actions they can to support the victims. in my opinion, there are some things that the university could do proactively. they could offer to assist with the counselling of these victims. they could also help to empower the victims by letting them participate in the restrurg of the policies and procedures to make sure the holes they fell into are filled and no one has to go through the same experience of being sexually assaulted at the university that the victims had to go through. >> thank you so much for joining me today. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> so coming up, we'll get an independent look at the key players in the sex scandal when we talk to a senior writer for "sports illustrated." allegations of sexual abuse
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have surfaced for a different coach. the associate men's basketball coach at syracuse is now placed on administrative leave as of thursday night after espn reported that two former ball boys are accusing him of sexual abuse. one of the boys told espn that fine molested him from 1984, and that the sexual conduct continued for years. another victim alleging that he came forward after penn state's scandal broke. the head basketball coach released a statement saying the matter was investigated in 2005. the allegations were unfounded. he told the ap, this kid came forward and there was no one to corroborate his story. they said i walked into bernie's room on the road and saw this. i never said i walked into bernie's room on the road. this isn't true. we'll have a lot more on this case as more things come to light. super committee members are
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meeting right now to find some agreement on over a trillion dollars in deficit reduction. but things are looking bleak as the deadline looms. five days until this is supposed to happen to get a deal done with pessimism regaining over capitol hill. the procespects of any real progress there. luke, explain. they need to score any big plan by monday. it the group ready to time out? >> as capitol hill now is bracing for failure. the reason why is they cannot reach an agreement on the two issues that not only playinged this issue, but plagued congress. that's the issue of taxes and entitlements. republicans are refusing to see any tax increase. the only revenue increase would come from tax reform in the name of $300 billion under a plan from patrick toomey of
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pennsylvania. that doesn't go far enough for democrats. you have a standstill. the capitol hill is bracing for failure from this group. maybe some sort of smaller plan could come out next week to try to lessen the hurt of the automatic cuts. but for big, bold, and bound, a grand plan to put the country on better financial footing, that doesn't look like it's going to happen. >> the committee was willing to align themselves, but they weren't willing to walk in knowing they could come out on a full agreement? >> there's a lot of speculation about whether of the members were truly independent from the special interest causes that are very much engrained on both sides. they say they tried to work hard, but at end of the day, they didn't want to take a risk going into an election year to upset the constituent groups in 2012. it's the antitax raisers on the republican side and promedicare people on the democratic side.
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>> luke russert, thanks. 72 house republicans are pushing back against any tax increases by the super-committee. although there are believes towards policies that should be included in any plan, we must recognize that increasing the tax burden on american businesses is irresponsible and dangerous to the health of the united states. iowa congressman steven king is a member of the tea party caucus. it's nice to have you on this morning. i want to ask. does a letter like this from dozens of lawmakers send a signal there's no point in working towards compromise on capitol hill? >> there's always a point to try to achieve a compromise. but it does say there are a good number of members that are likely to vote no. it increases taxes. the redefinition of tax increases will be defined as closing loopholes.
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washington has been one of the most inzept cities in the world to try to get to a point to get a compromise. i'm not very optimistic we'll see a plan that could pass the house of representatives by next wednesday. >> in your opinion, do you think reports from members within your party are softening on tax hikes? might be the example of republicans moving away from the tea party revolution that gave you the house majority last november? >> i don't know that it's moving away. i have seen, i think, some movement within our republican conference. that is, let's say, more open to negotiations than i would expect them to be. some of them probably regret it. they regret they didn't see the principles that were being compromised along the way. it's hard to get back to a principle once you leave it. it's hard to stand on a dollar figure. it's never a principle. so that's why we see the numbers shift a bit. . we also see the redefinition
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part. i think in the end though, we should be thinking about it in these terms. we had a budget that still didn't balance for 26 years. it left us with a national debt accumulated at the end of $23 trillion. projected spending was $28. that's what they call baseline. this debt deal dials it down to $26 trillion in national debt in ten years. we're not fixing the problem with this deal. because we're not, it's hard to be enthusiastic about being engaged in something that's going to be a redefined compromise. >> a lot of people would like the candidates your ringing endorsement behind them. as we head towards the caucuses, is there anyone you're ready to endorse? >> i'm not ready to do that at this point. i wish i was. i like them all. i respect them all. the couple of things that are
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missing, and one of them is a transformty of economic proposal. a transformty of tax proposal. why don't we take tax off productivity and talk about how that transforms the problem. and another one is the lack of articulation of the vision. ronald reagan did that all his political life. he saw the vision. i haven't seen that yet at this point. i hope those things can come together and soon. >> steve king, thank you for your time. i appreciate it. >> thank you very much. newt gingrich is trying to figure out how much money he made from freddie mac. he may release new information as soon as today. the candidate has been trying to explain how he made $1.8 million from freddie. want to bring in chris hays. it's nice to see you. when we talk about the fact that there are a couple reports about gingrich's business arms that collected tens of millions.
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now we have a report he collected $1.8 million from freddie mac. can he hang on convincing people he's not a creature of washington? they know he is. >> that's a good point. it's going to be hard. and i think the place it will hurt him is on the right. tim carney, a great reporter, did a column about this. he said not only do we look at the fannie and freddie, which are absolute demon entities in the minds of conservatives, fannie and freddie are the ones that brought the american economy to its knees. the other problem is carney reports that gingrich was help hadding past medicare part d. even though it passed by republicans, conservatives point to it as the moment when the caucus lost its way.
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we have situations where he partnered and cut ads with al gore to talk about education reform. i think his biggest vulnerability is that his wheeling and dealing in washington is seen by the tea party as an indication that he's part of business as usual. he's part of the conservative establishment that will sell out as soon as he get sboos power. >> congressman king talking about who is going to do well in iowa. herman cain is up 24%. we have to get your take. take a listen to this. >> who knows every detail of every country of every situation on the planet? nobody. we have plenty of experts. and a leader knows how to use those experts. we need a leader. not a reader. >> we need a leader, not a
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reader. we know herman cain can read. obviously. he's saying that there are experts that he's going to have. you never want to be the smartest person in the room. you want to have the smart people on your team. but saying something like that, what does that mean? >> it's self-parity. there's a clip of the simpsons where arnold scharts negativer makes a decision without thinking it through and says that. second of all, i think the other thing to think about is that this is rem any sent of the argument that george bush said. i don't know a lot, but i'm going to get a lot of people around me. the result of that is the bush record, which i think that most americans think was a resounding failure. that's the template. we have had this kind of argument made by a presidential
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candidate before. they are going to outsource the important information to people around them. and the result was what we got with george bush. i don't think it's a strong case to make. >> you have a lot of good stuff to talk about. thanks so much. you can watch chris tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. thanks again, chris. the most obvious question is, why now? after 30 years, what's the new information that investigators are zeroing in on? >> a new story about what really happened to natalie wood. what the boat captain is now saying about that night and her husband. plus occupy wall street's day of action turns into a day of arrests. [ male announcer ] whether over a cup of maxwell house,
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welcome back. we want to get you up to speed on a developing story. this in reno, nevada. firefighters are battling a wildfire. 20 homes have been destroyed. look at these pictures. several injuries have been reported. however, hundreds are already evacuated. 90 schools have now been closed. the reno fire chief says the situation is critical. we'll keep a close eye on it. the los angeles sheriffs department says they are reopening their investigation into the death of actress natalie wood. she drown 30 years ago off the coast of california. her death was ruled an accident, but now investigators say they have been contacted by people with some new information.
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nbc's george lewis has the latest. >> reporter: pretty and talented and at the top of her career as maria in "west side story." natalie wood's death from drowning shocked the world. a who's who of hollywood among her funeral. to some friends, the tragedy didn't quite add up because natalie woods said she'd always been afraid of water. >> i've always been terrified, still am, of water. dark water. sea water. >> reporter: she had been boating with her husband, robert waggoner, and the costar of her last film. they were anchored off catalina island. >> she had slipped on the swim step on the end of the boat and hit her head and rolled into the water. a tragic night. >> reporter: the coroner said
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she had been drinking wine and may have lost her balance. >> cause of death will be accidental drowning. >> reporter: right after her death, the lawyer tried to dampen speculation that there had been some sort of foul play. >> the facts are clear. the rest is just nonsense. >> reporter: but there were hints of a possible love triangle. a possible argument on board the boat between the two men. and in a book published last year, the captain of the boat said he saw them arguing. now the los angeles county sheriffs office says it's reopening the investigation. releasing a statement saying, recently sheriff's homicide investigators were contacted by persons who stated they had additional information about the natalie wood wagnor drowning. a statement from the publicist says the family fully supports the sheriff's investigation.
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>> that was george lewis reporting. the statement from robert waggoner says that the family hopes this isn't a case of somebody trying to profit over the 30th anniversary of her death. so far, there's been no comment from christopher walken. a power couple calling it quits. ashton kutcher is tweeting about it. we'll tell you what he's saying. [ man ] i got this citi thank you card and started earning loads of points. you got a weather balloon with points? yes, i did. [ man ] points i could use for just about anything. ♪ keep on going in this direction. take this bridge over here. there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] write your story with the citi thankyou premier card, with no point caps, and points that don't expire.
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and restrained after a bout with police. that certainly is an image hard to get out of your mind. maybe that's the stereotype you expect to see at a march against greed. but the face you may not expect is the face of moneymakers. charlie fink, a member of patriotic millionaires. it's good to have you with us today. your group of cohorts stormed capitol hill. explain to all of us the threshold. how much more should you and others be paying and why? >> at the moment, we're talking to legislators about allowing the bush taxes, which were never intended to be permanent, to expire as planned. we will oppose any deal that does not include the expiration of the tax cuts, which would
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raise my taxes 3.6%. >> when we talk about the fangt that you're asking for meetings and getting attention from people on the hill, no one met with you. just aids? >> we met with a number of legislato legislators. principally progressive ones, but we did meet with representative claiborne and several other republican and tea party members. >> do you wonder or question wornt you're going to take your money out of wall street right now? >> well, i think all of us, both with money and without, hedge the markets. so it's so unstable at the moment. because of the financial problems in europe and the united states. we're engaged in a historic, and i might add, somewhat bizarre economic experiment. no nation has given a tax cut to its wealthy citizens while waging two foreign wars.
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the kings of europe were con trained by nobles who did not want to financially support fortune adventures. so now we have dug ourselves a big hole. and it's bigger than the hole that we dug after world war ii. that led to taxes under president eisenhower as high as 90%. obviously, nobody wants that. but if you don't start paying the bills soon, it's just going to get larger. >> money talks. if you and your others are trying to get attention of those on wall street, why not pull your cash out? >> i would say that everybody makes their own individual choices about how to handle their money. patriotic millionaires are here simply to ask the country and congress to stop digging and stop the madness of spending money that we don't have. and shifting the burned of that on to the other 99%. this is why people are rioting in the streets. we have institutionalized
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unfairness in our country. the system seems unable to respond to it. >> you're getting the attention of lawmakers in washington, d.c. charlie fink, thank you for your time. i appreciate it. coming up, how penn state was a safe haven for jerry sandusky until the whole sexual abuse case started to unravel. we take a look with "sports illustrated." i wouldn't do that. get married? no, i wouldn't use that single miles credit card. nice ring. knock it off. ignore him. with the capital one venture card you earn... double miles on every purchase. [ sharon ] 3d is so real larry. i'm right here larry. if you're not earning double miles... you're settling for half. really? a plaid tie? what, are we in prep school? [ male announcer ] get the venture card at and earn double miles on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? i was gonna say that. uh huh...
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>> i'm not going to go into detail about anything. i think it's obvious i tried to do the right thing. >> "sports illustrated" is publishing this week about the scandal. it's good to have you here, john. you guys have been doing a lot of work on this trying to get this special issue together. you're looking at the key players over decades. let's talk about mike mcqueary and the role he plays. >> he's a follow crumb. he's telling one story. he claims he did go to police after telling joe paterno. police will not confirm that. he's a key player. as this starts to unravel, there's a lot we don't know. two weeks we have been on this scandal. there's still a lot of questions unanswered. >> over the years and through your career of reporting, how
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much damage has the penn state football program suffered? not just for right now, but for the future generations to come? >> i think it's the whole penn state institution. this goes beyond the football program. but this is completely different dimension than the typical college scandal. this is something completely different. this is multiple felonies, and children, and a completely different realm. >> when we talk about the special edition you put together, what are you trying to report that hasn't been uncovered yet that's going to open a lot of peoples' minds to what the larger issue is? >> we try to build a context of how could this happen. what were the forces in place to enable this to go on. one of the big take aways for me is that this whole investigation got rolling because jerry sandusky had retired.
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he volunteered. there was an incident there. they got the ball rolling. if jerry sandusky had just restricted his activities to the penn state football facility, there's no indication that he would have been caught. there were a number of incidents in the shower room, training facilities, where they were unreported. it wasn't until he left the football facility that this got rolling. the football facility was a sanctuary for him. >> john, as we're getting this report now that there's this allegation against syracuse university's basketball coach. one of two former ball boys spoke to espn about the sa accusations. it's difficult to hear. take a listen to this. >> the short time, he would start rubbing my leg. he's sitting next to me rubbing my leg. then he would put his hand down
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my pants. >> the university is standing behind bernie saying this was vetted. they were able to put this behind them. they don't believe that this happened. obviously, the situation in penn state is bigging up a bigger dialogue about where things might have gone unnoticed for a long time. situations of alleged abuse might have been overlooked. where do you think this is going to fall? >> you hate to go too simplistic. but one of the legacies in penn state is it's going to embolden people to speak up. maybe some good comes out of this. but all these cases are different. there are going to be similar elements. the penn state case has multiple victims. syracuse allegation right now we're only talking about one alleged victim.
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>> all right. thank you, john. oklahoma state university is reeling from a different kind of tranl. two of their women's basketball coaches were killed in a small plane crash last night near little rock, arkansas. kurt budke and miranda serna were on a recruiting trip. two others were also killed in the accident. holding the bible when i'm sworn in. >> emotional huh? >> herman cain getting very emotional talking about his fate, his wife, and her role during a possible enaugust ration. it's been a turbulent week. more next. ♪ ♪ ♪ when the things that you need ♪ ♪ come at just the right speed, that's logistics. ♪
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the mother of a girl who took her own life is speaking out. she laid her daughter to rest on wednesday in a small-town ceremony attended by hundreds. she reported the bullying to a teacher, but was told to stop tattling. the older sister found her hanging by a scarf in her closet. i had a chance to speak with her mom, her aunt, and her sister and brother. i asked her to describe what her daughter was dealing with at her school. >> what seemed minor to me wasn't minor to her. what seemed like minor taunting or teasing, anyone else may be able to blow off. she was really sensitive. >> the examples that we have and know of, she cut her hair in the third grade and was teased for
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that. they made fun of her initials. did you fear any of this was leading down the road to what eventually happened? in hindsight, were there bigger red flags that may have been there? >> no. no. she never talked about killing herself or hurting herself. she would come home. tell me she had a hard time at school because of the kids. and i would give her advice. i would talk to her about it. after a little bit of talking to her about it and letting her know if she went to the principal or i would go with her, we could discuss it there and have something done about it, she would relax. and tell me it's okay. then it seemed like she would be fine. >> she took her own life on veterans day. you were planning to go to the school that monday. as i understand it as well, her
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fifth grade teacher was her favorite. the principal was someone she thought was special. how are they reacting to this? >> they are both really torn up about it. they are really tore up. >> when we talk about what's going on at the school, what's happening with them? >> the sheriff had released a statement to the local newspaper without letting us know any of this information. we read it in the paper that their investigation thus far had shown that when they interviewed her friends, which weren't really her friends, they said that they couldn't find anything that would be so severe for her to take her life. when you think of that, i don't know who determines what is so severe. it wasn't because of her home
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life. this girl had just talked to her mom that day about how she was in the thanksgiving mood and how much snow do you think we'll get this winter? she was such a happy girl. she would be able to talk to her about things and feel like she was doing well after she would talk to her and give her guidance. had no implication it would go this far. you wouldn't with a ten-year-old girl. so trying to make a wake up call to everyone. >> i know this is really hard on you, especially. do you want people to use this as a way to talk at home for young kids o to talk to their parents and families about what they might be experiencing in school? >> well, if someone is being bullied and they are not getting it through their minds that it
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would be okay and they are really depressed about it, they can use this. >> they can use this to talk to their families. >> have them wake up and realize it's not just them. it's a lot of other people. and doing that is not the only way out. >> alex, how would you like us to remember your sister? >> i would like everyone to know that she wasn't deserving of being bullied. but other kids, for some reason, thought that -- they wanted themselves to feel better so they decided to make fun of someone else. and that costs so much more than i ever thought it would. and i want people to know that so it can be prevented. >> they were so brave and strong to come in and talk to me today.
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they just put her to rest on wednesday. i want to say a special thanks to all of them. pnc virtual wallet gathers your spending and saving in one place. credit and debit purchases, checks, bills, and other financial information. it lets you see the details as well as the big financial picture. so you can do more with your money. see what a complete view of your money can do for you at ♪ pnc bank. for the achiever in you.
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my interest in >> my interest in housing and my interest in helping relatively poor americans have a chance to buy a house is very real and goes back a long way. i was approached to offer strategic advice. do i no lobbying of any kind. i never have. very important point i want to make. >> newt gingrich trying to stay consistent on one talking point. his total denial he was ever a lobbyist. 2012 republican candidates will have to make a choice on the surging former hose speaker. turn that i attacks in his direction or let him create his own political demise. it's good to have you both here. david, i want to start with you. is newt really going to be able
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to convince conservatives around this country that he is not a creature of washington, d.c. and win them over? >> well, i actually see a parallel between what's going on right now with newt gingrich and fannie mae, freddy mac and rick perry and his oops moment. this is something so core and critical to his campaign, the notion of reducing the federal government and yet he for goat what he was going to say about it. with the case of newt gingrich, he is professing a small government mantra. to have collected $1.5 million in consulting fees, whether for lobbying or consulting or anything else, to a conservative it's just going to fly in the face of reality. it's going to seem insincere. and that i think is a killer for a candidate. >> tony, when we have these critical headlines that are sund surrounding candidates like herman cain and newt gingrich,
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it's not helping mitt romney to burst through the middle. the polls show him neck and neck nationally with herman cain. do you think mitt romney's strategy is best to say i don't want to be a shooting star but a long star and continue doing what they're doing, just staying steady on the course or do you think they need to do something bold? >> no, i don't think they need to change what they're doing very much at all, tom. the romney campaign is in this for the long haul. they have the resources for it. they have the longer record for it. and they have so far the most accomplished campaigner of this group of candidates. so he has the ability to husband his resources, stick to his strategy, and make a play for the primaries as they come up in the new year. he doesn't need to try to shoot his bullets right now. >> all right, also on the side of all of this i want to play this war of words that's interestingly erupting this week between rick perry and nancy pelosi. take a listen. >> monday i'm going to be in portland in the morning.
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i'm going to be visiting some of our labs in california in the afternoon. that's 2:00. i can't remember what the third thing is. >> i get it about why nancy pelosi doesn't want to debate me in public. but then she's going to have to explain why she profited from these insider trading information in the stock market. >> so nancy pelosi having hin h oops moment in relation to perry. she failed to mention -- is he just grasping at strauss on the trail now trying to throw the spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks? >> i must say if i were an adviser to governor perry i would say let's stay away from debates of any kind for awhile, governor. but this clearly is an attempt for him to find a foil within the democratic party. and who better do conservatives love to beat up on than nancy
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pelosi? it's interesting for me to note that he's not taking aim squarely at president obama which presumably is who he'd want to run against in the first place. he's picking somebody who has nothing to do with the presidential race. i think that is a sign of desperation. it's a sign that he needs to somehow jolt conservatives into action, taking him more seriously. and it doesn't appear at the moment to be working. >> gentlemen, i want you to look at this. it's often an overlooked candidate by the name of jon huntsman who appeared on "morning joe" today. take a look. >> the fact that we're lower in the polls nationally doesn't mean a thing. new hampshire is where the action is going to be. and i'm here to tell you right now it's going to be a two-person race. >> so tony, here he is, jon huntsman. smart guy. has a great record out of utah. elected twice in a landslide basically the second time around. why do you think that republican voters aren't warming up to him, taking him seriously? >> i think every candidate in the race has had some vulnerabilities. they haven't always been -- had
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the sufficient to create self-awareness of. in the case of jon hunts man, it's the very fact he served in the obama administration. there's no getting around that. he was a guy who as ambassador of china reported directly to the president of the united states and was hand-picked by the president. he has civic krif terrific cred, as a governor and strong conservative republican. he may get his chance. he has a chance this week. his credentials are in foreign policy. we have a foreign policy debate coming up this week. so he has a chance to go out there and try to establish himself as that strong voice on foreign policy. we'll see whether he can do that. >> gentlemen, thanks for your time this morning. i appreciate it. >> thank you, tom. so up next, the hollywood couple breakup that everyone's talking about. [ male announcer ] just how many appliances
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and this is "now". >> the issue is that this country in fact does have a serious deficit problem. >> supercommittee is a great example of just the lack of leadership that we've got in washington. >> the public doesn't believe that we have good friends across the aisle. >> i am still hopeful that the republicans will see their way to bringing to us a real revenue package. >> i'm waiting for the democrats to put fundamental reform on the table. >> go ahead and bite the bullet and do what need to be done. because the math won't change. >> one thing about things down here in washington, it always goes to the final hour. >> we are 72 hours from a $1 trillion question. and our only hope, the supercommittee. can these 12 members of congress find the necessary budget cuts and new revenue to avert complete financial disaster? joining me today author name me wolf, ben white or