tv The Dylan Ratigan Show MSNBC November 21, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm PST
acknowledge that it's much easier to wash the body than it is to cleanse the soul of a man so deeply hypocritical as newt gingrich. thanks very much for watching. dylan's here and he's ready to take us forward. dylan? >> i mean, that articulation was so powerful, martin, i felt like i should be saying, what kind of a man? and you should say, the what kind of a man, dylan? i can smell the putrid stench of his soul right now just from your articulation. stinks. anyway, it's a beautiful day for a tv show. it doesn't smell at all otherwise around here. our show begins right now. all right. the big story, a super failure, you know this. good monday to you. not for us, for our congress. we'll fix this whole thing. it's going to be fine. i am dylan ratigan. deadline is approaching in washington. so-called super committee sets up super failure meeting,
admitting there's to deal in sight. >> now we're down just trying to get the small $1.2 trillion to avoid sequester. i still believe that it is possible to do it, but it requires compromise, genuine compromise, on both sides. >> our democratic friends had a different idea. their idea was, this was the opportunity to raise taxes. and it didn't matter what we proposed. >> well, no shock here on "the dr show." for months, we've been telling you about the political pro-wrestling that's been dominating all of this do nothing in washington. but maybe it's a little extreme. maybe i should apologize. congress does have a list of accomplishments. they have achieved the lowest congressional approval rating ever, not easy. paraphrasing our friend tom coburn, we do wonder who the 13% who do approve are. and you can almost forget -- or who could forget, i should say, almost letting the government shut down not once, but twice, lots of hard work and late
nights to get that done. both sides did no real debating on the real issues of bank reform, capital requirements, trade reform, and of chinese currency rigging, job creation through an infrastructure and energy efficiency, or the cost of health care, as promoted by the drug deals and the the health insurance monopolies. they didn't get to that. and even the asleep s&p folks noticed our government's functionality by downgrading our nation's credit rating this summer. but lest we hold too low an opinion of our congress, let us remember the big accomplishment last week. officially declaring pizza a vegetable, taking care of those tomato special interests. so we're left with the super committee failing to agree to a little over $1 trillion in savings, the major hang ups being the bush tax cuts. how's that for a little deja vu, a little groundhog day. but, hey, look at this. this thing is so big, we've got
a countdown clock. good for ratings. what will they do? oh, my goodness. see it there at the bottom of the screen? two days left! don't change -- oh! ah! damn! there go our ratings. but in reality, the deadline is today. the cbo needs time to score any deal before the clock strikes midnight, thanksgiving starts. anyway, it's a bust, okay? let's just get to it. luke russert brings us to washington's favorite game, pointing fingers and the blaming the other guy! >> reporter: that's it. >> oh, yes, it's a board game coming out for this holiday season. they've perfected it in washington and we'll all get to play soon enough. any chance, though, of a final deal? is there anything about my narrative that's too cynical or too vicious an indictment? can you correct me in some way? >> reporter: well, dylan, there was some talk of an 11th hour deal today? senator john kerry called some members of the super committee into his office in an attempt to grab the low-hanging fruit. maybe a couple hundred billion
that both parties could agree on. we've heard from capitol hill aides on both sides, saying that meeting was very much about aesthetics, trying to show the members of congress that those people were serious about debt reduction, on the eve of this super committee announcing that it would fail. remember when john boehner and president obama both said failure is not an option? it looks like failure will be the option. and really, the reason why, dylan, it comes down to two things. the issues that have plagued not only this congress, but this country. republicans will not see taxes go up under any circumstances, democrats do not want taxes touched under any circumstances. if you look at the backdrop, dylan, just look at the stats. federal revenue now is at its lowest level since 1950. if you extend the bush tax cuts the way the republicans want, you get $3.8 trillion added to the deficits. if you add them the way republicans want, you get $3 trillion added over the next three years. if you don't do anything to
medicare or medicaid or social security, those programs will not be solvent. both parties don't want to tell the american people it's time to drink their tough medicine. both parties are going to try to take 2012 as the avenue to have this debate further. but as this debate goes on and on and on. the real difficult decisions, the real ideas of how are we going to cut this deficit, they go unanswered. all so folks can can get re-elected, continue to get their $147,000 salaries, and the beat goes on and on. the special interests get rich, the parties can argue and argue and argue. in terms of this super committee, dylan, had an opportunity to do something special. they had an up or down vote in the united states senate, filibuster proof. that is so valuable here on capitol hill, i can't tell you. and they punted it all away, because they were besieged with the same thing that has killed every idea here on capitol hill, the partisan interests on both sides. >> you're starting to sound like me, first of all, luke, so you're probably going to get thrown out of there. i can't imagine you're going to last d.c. much past the next month or so.
i would like to address a separate issue with you, if i could. not to diminish that in any way, shape, or form. obviously, it's a fiasco. as you probably do not know, i live and work here in new york city, and i have a very specific ritual as to how i live. and i really like to spend my mornings with chuck todd, okay? so i wake up in the morning, and that's what -- chuck and i have a personal relationship. >> you and chuck are partners in the morning. >> well, chuck doesn't really know it, because i'm a viewer, but at home i'm in my bathroom with the french press and the paper and i wake up with chuck, and this is what i run into. >> this is thedale rundown, i'm look russert filling in for chuck todd. >> a little story happening here while you're in the big studio, luke. >> so now -- >> reporter: yeah, they gave the keys to the kid. the kid stole the keys to the car. >> let's go over this. we want to make sure you retain
anchor level hair and makeup for the rest of your career. you are now officially an anchor. and when you're enduring the hardship that people like you do as correspondents in those marble pillars and with those really, really hard to deal, nicely manicured lawns, you will know how good people like myself have it. and i think that makes us closer. >> reporter: absolutely. and i've been baptized by you, dylan. i appreciate it. there's no greater honor on dayside cable tv. >> this is it. the best hair and makeup for years to come. you'll never be downgraded again, luke. you have my word. and congratulations -- >> reporter: hallelujah, brother dylan. god bless you. >> and then let's get out to these pro wrestlers. luke russert, ladies and gentlemen. check him out -- well, he's pretty much everywhere. the markets are reacting to the latest washington gridlock that luke was so eloquently describing to us. the s&p 500, one of our major financial indices, hitting its lowest level since december. the dow lost 2% today. remember, the markets went nuts
back in august, when the super committee was created, but then the dow dropped nearly 7% over an eight-day slide. anyway, the financial markets expressing appropriately an enhanced degree, of not only skepticism, but pessimism about immediate economic prospects by virtue of the day's news. as you can see, peter morici is with us, along with gene baker, the cough h director for the center for economic and policy research. and professor morici, there has to be a ton of upside here, if when things are this screwed up, there has to be a tremendous a lot of upside for growth in political improvement, in energy independence, in job creation. there's no way that you could look at this situation as screwed up as it is and not think, man, if we get a few things right here, this thing's going to be cooking -- we'll be cooking with gas. >> well, to think that the economy is still actually growing and that we're going to have 2% for the year and a strong second half, the u.s. economy is remarkably resilient to be able to put up with the
machinations of these moves, you know? the next thing we're going to have -- we have pizza as a vegetable. >> yes! >> well, next week the box is going to be a starch. so the people who can't afford to feed their kids, we're going to give them the thrown-out boxes. no, i can't find an upside to what happened today, other than that i do know that eventually congress is going to have to sort this out as a whole, because the bond market isn't going to let it go on forever. >> and that really is what we're talking about, dean. people don't realize there is a financial market, granted, it's one that's highly influenced by the central banks to kind of cover up or subsidize the cost of borrowing money, but there has to be a point at which the financial markets, not just the bond market, but the currency markets as well, really start to offer some different point of view as to american prosperity. >> well, you have to keep in mind, these are two different issues. one is the issue of the deficit, the other is the issue of american prosperity.
the issue of american prosperity -- we've had very weak growth. 2% is pathetic, considering where we are. and i think the fact that the stock market's tumbling reflects that. the issue of the deficit, we go to the bond market. what's that telling us? issue rates and ten-year treasuries are around 10%. that's like the lowest they've been since the great depression. what that's telling us is no one's worried at all about the deficit -- >> hold on, hold on -- >> i don't know about that. >> let's stop there -- >> that's what it means. >> i would argue that it means that the central bank has been subsidizing the bond market -- >> well, that's fine. but you have a lot of private investors that are holding that money. they have that choice. no one has a gun to their head. >> hold on a second. peter, go ahead. >> there's a lot of money sloshing around the world. and with europe coming apart, it's coming here and pushing down bond rates. also, there is great concern about the chinese banking system and the solvency of provincial governments. and for the first time, a lot of money has been leaving china, to
the extent they'll let it out. money doesn't come and sit as money. it always buys bonds, because you get some interest, not a lot, but some. so that is depressing u.s. interest rates right now. but this can't last forever. when the world gets back on its axis and the europeans get going again, their bonds will look more attractive and then we're going to start to see rising rates on u.s. debt because of all this -- >> i want to move through this, though, so people can understand the political debate that we are currently in. if the super committee or any politician was serious, dean, what would they even be talking about? how do i tell between a bogus debate, that is a debate that's sort of used to entertain me in the pro wrestling of american political media and power dynamics and a legitimate debate? give me your two examples. i'll ask you the same question, peter. >> dylan, i'd say the serious debate talks about creating jobs. that means spending money now. the longer term, the issue is
health care. we have a broken health care system. if we paid the same amount per person as -- pick your country -- we'd be looking at long-term budget surpluses, not deficits. so serious people talking about fixing the u.s. health care system as the long-term issue. in the short-term issue, they talk about creating jobs. because that's what we really need. >> so jobs in the short-term, health reform in the long-term. dean baker's test to see whether you're serious. peter, same question for you. >> well, we need to talk about health care, but not the way the democrats refuse to and the republicans do. and that is the republicans say, well, we'll give block grants to the states. all that's going to do is mean the poor folk aren't going to have enough money to buy the health care they need, and they'll be left out in the cold. with regard to the over issue that dean didn't mention, social security, we've had conversations on that. wherever we get one of these special panels, they do talk about raising the retirement age -- >> or at least means testing. >> well, means testing is another thing they talk about, but we really need to do both. we can't be retiring at 65 and
having 65-year-olds with 20-year life expectancies. >> peter, raise it to 67. come on. >> then we need to raise it to 70, as i have written. i think it's very reasonable to work until 70 in this day and age. >> there's no shortage of wonderful ideas. there are ways to gauge whether the person is serious, if you're talking about jobs in a real way, in the context of 30 million, not a couple million, which is what we actually need. what do you guys see as the electorate's greatest leverage over the next year? because, obviously, the congress is unresponsive. obviously, the congress is entrenched. obviously, they're sort of bought into this, i'm not as bad as the other guy. so as long as the other guy's worse than me, i'll keep my job. if you're looking for a way to put a fire under their derrieres, and you are outside the building, outside and of washington, dean, where would you start? >> well, i've been very impress with the occupy movement around the country. the opposing issue of the 1% versus the 99% is very much on
the mark. basically, you've had 1% do very, very well over the last several decades and the 99% doing very poorly. we should be looking at policies that reverse this upward redistribution. my favorite is the tax, you could raise a lot of money and help to clamp down on the wall street speculation that's been so destructive in recent years. >> peter, same thoughts to you wm. >> we have to do something about trade deficit with china and develop more domestic energy resources. the way we're going to get heat on that issue is for it to become part of the presidential campaign. if either gingrich or romney or the nominee, whether or not you like them as president, it will bring that issue to center stage and put mr. obama on the dime, on those issues. you know, he promised to do something about the chinese yon when he was campaigning. i think that's the thing that will help the 99% the most. >> and you think romney, the
candidate, is the most likely to invoke that? >> his platform is, i'll put a 20% chance on chinese imports. i would do it somewhat differently, but that will put mr. obama on the dime. i want to develop domestic energy, oil, and gas. that's lower than stuff that's already there. it's nice if you're a republican, but it isn't going to solve the problem! >> i like that. we need a thing, you can play it for grover norquist. that's nice if you're a republican, but that's not going to solve the problem. you can also do it for democrats -- it's nice if you're a km the, but it isn't doing to solve the problem. we need a seriousness test and you two are helping us do it. dean baker, peter morici, thank you, guys. coming up here on "the dr show," a winter of discontent. clashes in the streets of cairo, police with pepper spray in california, uc davis. a live report from tahrir square. and our mega panel weighs in on the world and the wave of protest.
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military rule, the military rule that took over since hosni mubarak was driven from power in february. as it approaches midnight in cairo, there are calls for a million-man march tomorrow after 33 protesters were killed today and over the weekend. the supreme military council is saying it will no give up its dar caretaker powers even after votes are counted in the first post-revolution elections. nbc news's chief correspondent richard engel is back in tahrir square. and richard, if you could, in brief, give us a sense of how much has changed since mubarak left and the military took over. if i was to go to any protester and ask them their top two or three complaints, have any of them changed? >> reporter: they would say that
their aspirations and the hopes that they had when they were here in february have not been reali realized. egypt's economy is in tatters. they've seen a little bit more freedom of expression. there have been several different governments in place that haven't had any kind of real authority to take actions to address the very real needs of the egyptian people. thousands of egyptian have said put in front of military tribunals. the emergency law that was put in place in this country after sidott was assassinated is still in place, giving the military a carte blanche to arrest people, detain people, do illegal searches and seizures. all of these powers are still in the hands of the military, and the people have been living on a promise that the military would transition to democracy and implement all of these reforms that i just mentioned. and they haven't been happening.
>> if you were to look -- and then i want to get to the panel. but there's a famous evening on january 30th when the call came in for the tank commanders to open fire on tahrir square and the tank commanders took off their helmets and got on their cell phones and called their fathers and called each other and said, are you going to open fire on tahrir square, and they all said no. that was men mubarak was in charge. is there any end game that doesn't end with up with military -- in other words, it's one thing to take mubarak and take the military, it's another thing to reject the military. >> reporter: what happened was, the egyptian people were focusing their anger against the military and against mubarak, and what the military did was sacrifice mubarak. and mubarak ended up -- he's now on trial, and he's waiting for the next hearing. and the people accepted that, with the promise that these domestic reforms and democratic
reforms would take place. they haven't taken place. and now the people are setting their sights directly on the military. that moment you mentioned when the military came in and decided not to fire on the people, the people came out and said the egyptians and the military are hand in hand. we are one. that was a high point in the relationship between the egyptian people and their military. this was a low point. >> go ahead, imogen. your thoughts here? >> it's an absolute low point. the problem in egypt at the moment is there's no one with the authority and credibility to move forward. and that's what those protesters are looking for. it would be very interesting to see, certainly, behind the scenes, what is going on. we don't know what's going on with the state department and so forth. how are they helping egypt with this transition? because at the moment, there's this gap. gap of authority and gap of credibility. >> you're nodding? >> yes. this moment strips down the civil institutions that we're all used to. we're not used to thinking about the fact that ultimately
government is whoever will get military to listen to them. in other words, the guys with the guns, whoever they decide is the government is the government. so the egyptians were able to strip away one layer of that by driving a wedge between mubarak and the military. but now if they don't like the military, those are the guys with the guns. to actually put in a functioning republic democracy that's peaceful, that is much harder work than getting the military to stop listening to one particular dictator. >> yeah. i mean, i think it's true. obviously, the military is a much tougher nut to crack. but the american military and the egyptian military is sort of famously close ties, and i just wonder where the united states is in this. i mean, we haven't heard the state department, we haven't heard the president, we haven't heard the u.s. military. i have to assume there's contact between the military, at the highest echelons.
so i wonder, what -- are we bringing, as a nation, the pressure upon the military to meet the promises they made to the egyptian people? they're three months overdue, already, for transition. >> richard, did you hear that question? do you have any -- can you offer us any insight as to any awareness of direct or indirect influence over the military? i know we provide a lot of the equipment. you showed us a tear gas can last winter that was made in america that was being shot into tahrir square. obviously, there's a very connected web. >> reporter: actually, last time it was a tear gas can. this time it is a shotgun shell. i just pulled it out of my pocket as you were mentioning it. this, too, is made in the usa and a protester gave me this earlier today. it's some of the buckshot that has been used as riot control. and the people here very much feel that the egyptian military is dependent on the u.s. military, and they want the u.s. military to tell their army to stop shooting at the people.
and today, it was mostly egyptian police that were eng e engaged in the violence. only yesterday for a brief period did we see the army move in with the egyptian police, and that was for a very brief, very deadly period at sundown yesterday. the army down is calling for dialogue. we've just been told since we've been on air with you that the military council is now calling on the leaders of this protest and who exactly that is remains unclear. but it wants the powers on the ground, the community leaders, to come and engage in dialogue with the military, to try and resolve this. >> all right. listen, richard, thank you, as always, for the reporting. we'll talk to you sooner rather than later. richard engel in tahrir square. the panel stays. we turn our attention to the occupy protests in our own country. you don't have to go to egypt. take a look. here's the scene at uc davis this afternoon as students rallied for the right to protest peacefully on that campus after a video surfaced of police
pepper spraying occupy protesters over the weekend. by now, we've all seen the occupy video. maybe not, but here's a look, from uc davis of police dousing, repeatedly seated peaceful protesters with pepper spray. the university police chief and two officers are now on administrative leave. this is one of those ones where i think there was a marine general, tim -- or a former marine, not a general, a former marine veteran who was in times square during the whole -- it was one of the protests. and he's screaming at the cops saying, being -- pointing a gun at an unarmed person or being aggressive with an unarmed person does not make you tough. it does not make you tough. if you're armed and i'm not and i'm aggressive with you, it doesn't make you tough. i think that he is correct. at the same time, it is the policeman's pension, it is the policeman's retirement accounts, it is the actual people who are policing this country whose money is being sucked into the
banking system and gambled away by jon corzine. and so i think that we have to find -- it's very -- you want to have the cops versus the students. you want to have the protesters versus the cops. and a lot of people have that, sam. but i think that we are at a point in time where we have to recognize more than that. >> look, you can go back and look at any video, whether it's when the new york police department pulled people out of the last vestige in zuccotti park and the protesters are saying, we are with you, we love you, we are here fighting for you, for your pensions. what we saw in that video there is reprehensible. and what we're seeing with the police departments around this country, one more thing that the occupy movement is exposing. the incredible militarization of our police departments. this is a function of all the department of homeland security toys that they get. why do we have handheld long-range audio devices in new york city? what possible reason are cops walking around with these devices? the ones on top of their trucks? this is because we've seen the corruption that has sort of
permeated this culture of security. we see the militarization of our police departments, and i'll tell you something, the occupy movement has always reached out to the police departments on those very terms, and we're seeing mayors and we're seeing people, educators, turn the police on these people for absolutely no reason whatsoever. >> the problem that the left is facing right now is that you have democratic liberal politicians in california staying silent on this. they're not speaking out -- >> staying silent -- >> on the abuse. >> what sam just said? >> yes. and you've got the public sector union, these government employees, who are doing this. this is not about -- at the end of the day, the banks aren't the ones who are clashing with the occupy wall street guys. and this is why as a libertarian, i'm saying, yes, i hate the banks as much as you hate the banks. >> occupy congress! >> but i also dona't want government getting big enough that they're walking around
pepper spraying someone for sitting on the sidewalk. >> this is the age of the camera phone. authorities can no longer get away with behavior in the past. you can't bring out the pepper spray and tear gas, so forth. but you were absolutely right going back to your first point about the police. this is not about class warfare, this is about the fact that america has a dream. and everybody wants to have access to the american dream. there's a feeling in this country that i'm getting that not everybody has access to that dream and that's the problem. >> there's a statistic in this country that shows that our social mobility is lower than most of western europe. this is not a feeling, there are statistics that will evidence that. >> let's take the warfare out of this. >> but on the contrary, the reason why we're in that position, the reason why we have record-breaking income disparity is because there has been a war, it has been waged. and the victims, essentially, of that war are the 99% of the people in this country. >> and i think that's a very
anti-american acceptabilisentim. >> but what's very american is the ability to go on television and talk about this like this. nobody's taken me in the back and chopped my head off yet. >> and have a camera cell phone and put it on youtube. >> exactly. and to protest and all the rest. so, listen, here we are. the mega panel stays. speaking of here we are, next, how do we get the debate that we deserve? if you watch this show, you know that our answer is to get money out. why our specialist says that that is only way. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 ttd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the typical financial consultation ttd# 1-800-345-2550 when companies try to sell you something off their menu ttd# 1-800-345-2550 instead of trying to understand what you really need. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 ttd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we provide ttd# 1-800-345-2550 a full range of financial products, ttd# 1-800-345-2550 even if they're not ours. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 and we listen before making our recommendations, ttd# 1-800-345-2550 so we can offer practical ideas that make sense for you. ttd# 1-800-345-2550 ttd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck, and see how we can help you, not sell you. ttd# 1-800-345-2550
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all right. the first half of the show today, we talked about the struggles of the super committee, the struggles of the protester, and every day, we talk about the struggles of americans who just want things like affordable health care, a government that's actually aligned with its own country as opposed to misaligned against it along with industries and special interests to the same effect. it does seem nothing is working right now. so why not try our way?! just get crazy!
the get money out of politics way. the way where it's not for sale, you can't buy it, it's not an auction. then maybe you get the debate you deserve on big issues, jobs, trade, taxes, energy independence, bank reform. joining the get money out way, endorsing the get money out way of his own volition and discretion, miles mogolessku. he lends his voice to the get money out way in "the huffington post" in which he says president obama and his challenger will raise and spend $1 billion a pop in the upcoming election and that doesn't include the other people that will be running. 94% of all elections are won by the person who can raise the moe most money. that's not an election, that's an auction. miles wrote a piece -- now, there's no bias in any of this, and you should take and intent no bias about me in this show or miles in terms of how you get on though show.
he penned a piece that's called "why dylan ratigan's get money out gets it right." >> but i wasn't sucking up to you. >> in no way, shape, or form. >> i've been writing for years. just as civil rights was the defining issues of the '60s, i think getting money out of politics and ending the legal bribery of our politicians is the overarching issue of our time. and until we solve that issue, we can't solve any other issue. >> go ahead, imogen. >> you talk in your piece about the parallelssuffrage movement. >> amending the constitution is a tough thing. it takes a lot of people, a lot of work, a mass movement over many years and that's what we need to do. the suffragette movement did exactly that. it unified women and men, because many men supported the suffragette movement. it worked and fought and argued
and went into the streets and talked to politicians and talked to the public. and it finally won. we amended our constitution. and that's what we need to do today. >> why get your money out in terms of the constitutional amendment as opposed to like a corporate personhood, say? >> well, i think you need to do that, but to me, you have to go farther. a lot of people became aware of this two years ago in the citizens united case, where the supreme court said that corporations are persons with the same rights of any other natural person to give as much money as they want to a political candidate. but to me, that was just the cherry on the top of this big, sweet cake that's giving us all sugar shock and making us sick. and it goes back much farther than that. it really goes back to a supreme court case in 1976 called buckley v. vallejo where the supreme court said that money equals speech. >> money is not property -- >> well, money is not property, but it's money -- >> and speech. >> and speech. >> but all speech involves
money. right now, you're speaking over air waves paid for by comcast and general electric, which paid for my tea and your water. >> speaking of which, would you like to water? >> yes, i do. >> this is all compliments of -- >> i've got my comcast/general electric tea. >> 51% comcast, 49% ge. >> comcast and ge are paying for dylan, for rachel maddow, and news corp. is paying for sean hannity and those guys. >> and cnn -- >> these are corporations that are engaging in political speech. so the corporations that you're discriminates against or the people you're discriminating against are people who don't happen to own a gigantic -- >> which brings up a good question. which is, how do you handle the press? yeehaws like myself who have shows and shoot our mouths off. and also, how do you handle for access for politicians and financing -- in other words, have you thought beyond the get money out lens to what about yeehaws on tv? >> i think it is an important issue, because the constitution also protects the freedom of the
press. but i think media companies are different. their job is to report news. and giving -- >> what if they don't do that? >> what if they're rachel maddow who gives opinion -- fl well, giving opinions is one thing. giving contributions is another thing. in other words, i don't think corporations are protected to the extent of making contributions to political candidates -- >> but they spend money to give those opinions across the airwav airwaves. >> i don't have a problem with that. i think we have a free press and need to maintain a free press. >> it sounds like you just seem like you have -- what, did rachel do a show you didn't like? >> i'm all for rachel and every other american getting to express his or her opinion as much as possible, however much it costs. >> are we allowed to do it in secret? >> that's a more complicated question. >> how? >> i think contributions to politicians should be public. >> great to see you, miles. a pleasure. >> a pleasure to be here, and i congratulate you on all the work
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i'm reading a book here called "blah, blah, blah." our next guest wrote it. he said we're drowning in verbiage, from misused verbiage to the unintelable verbiage. our words just are not working. so as we get official word that the super committee will be a failure, our next guest has declared -- decided to reframe our understanding of some of the biggest issues that we have in this country using pictures as words appear to be coming up short. joining us now, dan roam, master of show, don't tell. best-selling author, without with a new book, "blah, blah, blah: what to do when words don't work." and we seem to have failed with words in the super committee, dan. so let us go straight to the pictures. >> dylan, i'm a big believer
that we talk so much, that we're actually forgetting how to think. so the solution is to talk a little bit less and draw a little bit more. so i want to start out, because you're going to draw with me as we go through these. you get to pick, the red pen or the blue pen? i'm having a matrix moment, which one's it going to be? and this is rife with all kinds of political meaning, you know? >> they're going to be writing about this on the blogs. >> oh -- oh, he's got the red pen. >> i like to think of myself as a conservative, after all. >> well, you did pick the republican pen. >> i wouldn't say republican. >> it's the red state -- >> don't call me a republican. but don't call me a democrat. >> you've got the red pen. in order to understand the big picture, we'll start with some little pictures. and the picture we're going to start with is our super committee, which how super were they? they were not particularly super. all right. so what we're going to do is we're going to talk about what the debt debate was really all
about. >> it was like therapy. >> just set up the big picture. when we're talking about our debt, what do we really mean? we've got $15 trillion in federal debt. about $10 trillion of that is in publicly held debt. about $5 trillion is in debt that's held exclusively by government -- >> and $70 trillion in unfunded liabilities. >> that would sound good. so how much was our super committee trafficked to try to cut from that? $1.2 trillion. now, i know that you -- i've heard you say, it needs to be $4 trillion just to get started. let's look at the picture that was given. does that seem like too onerous a task to try to do? >> that's like taking 8% off of the mark. shouldn't be too bad. >> let's think about where that debt came from. >> right. >> because the good news is the debt didn't just suddenly accumulate yesterday. so the debt, prior to reagan, we had about $1 trillion worth of debt. reagan put in about $1.9
trillion, and so on, and with w. putting in, $6.1 trillion. >> this is medicare part "d," the wars -- >> two wars. >> and also the collapse after the financial collapse in housing and unemployment. see how i'm just drawing lines that go down. >> that's perfect. it's therapeuticic for me. >> this is where it came from. what do we want to talk about next? we remember back in the summer, the debt cap crisis. the thing that's also to remember, as we're looking at that accumulation of debt, they had raised the debt cap 78 times. it was no big deal. all of a sudden this summer they said, no, we're not going to do it. forcing a compromise. and it was not a very good compromise. in the end, obama did get his $900 billion to be able to run the government through february, but only by being able to put together a super committee, who by the day after tomorrow, had to come up with a plan to lose that $1.2 trillion. >> sure. >> and if they don't. >> which they didn't. >> the news has come out. >> they didn't, they failed. >> what was supposed to happen,
there was going to be a congressional debate vote on the 23rd of december. if it went up, then it would go for further -- >> i got it. >> and fif it went down, then te cuts start automatically. >> but nobody's dealing with the lack of jobs and collapse of housing that created the huge shortfall in 2008 -- >> is that what this panel is supposed to do? >> and they're not dealing with any of the underlying problems, dan. >> let's kick the can down the road. here are our can kickers. here they are. here's the 12 of them. and it is a super committee. there are some pretty super smart people on here. we've got people -- >> he ran for president. >> he did. he knows what he's doing. we've got people who know what they're talking about, most the time. okay. so what do we need to do? we need to get them to agree. they can't agree because these guys won't let anything go. if they can't keep retirement and health without raising taxes and these people refuse to raise any taxes, no compromise. >> no deal. so the only way to get to a deal
is talk about reforming health, reforming retirement, and reforming the tax code. >> and to get them talking to each one again. >> i'm an awesome student. taxes, retirement, and health. >> awesome. >> i'll bring you back. >> dylan, thank you. >> i look forward to seeing the occupation, which i know is under there. hold on a second. "blah, blah, blah" is the book. keli goff is next with the daily rant on why herman cain's candidacy was doomed from the start. truth is, nyquil doesn't un-stuff your nose. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your stuffy nose. [ deep breath ] thank you! that's the cold truth! it's a great hd tv. shh. don't speak. i'll just leave you two alone. [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. more electronics start at midnight. and we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. walmart. i took some steep risks in my teens. i'd never ride without one now. and since my doctor prescribed lipitor,
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willing to stand by that statement today, now that his campaign is on life-support with race playing a role in its demise. what do i mean by that? shortly after the herman cain harassment story broke, the first question i asked a friend here at msnbc is, do we know the race of the accusers? before anyone calls me a racist, i asked not because i care, because i knew that some voters would, namely many of the voters that mr. cain immediated to win a gop primary. ho do we know that some of them care? well, a 2010 pew research poll found that while nearly 85% of millennials support inter-racial marriage, only 52% of the white baby boomers do, and only 36% of whites over 65 do. pew data also shows that the average age of registered republicans has risen to almost 50 and the party's greatest block of support remains whites in the south. this means that the voters least likely to approve of sexual contact between members of different races are the very voters cain's political survival has depended upon. therefore, it was a given if the number of attractive white women
accusing him of not so attractive behavior has increased. of course, there are those who will argue that cain hasn't been done in by the sexual harassment charges, but by his libya gaffe. what about george w. bush. he failed a foreign affairs pop question during an interview, and yet he recovered. of course, there is one key difference between mr. cain and the former president. a difference that most frames knew mattered, but apparently mr. cain did not. but he probably does now. historically minorities who strive to break barriers are held to tougher standards to their non-minority counterparts. for this reason, president obama would have no chance surviving an impeachment scandal the way president clinton did, and there is not a single black politician on the candidate that would be considered viable if they were as inarticulate as former president bush. cain's mistake was buying into the myth of post-racial america he believed if he said his race didn't matter enough, it wouldn't. in the end, it was this denial, and not the harassment charges and not libya that ultimately
proved to be his undoing. dylan? >> i mean, do you really think any of these people are ever going to be president, though? you know when i'm saying? you look at michele bachmann, rick perry, herman cain, all these characters, there's not one of these people that are going to be president. these people want to be looked at. they want to sell books. and so -- i guess it's an interesting way for me to respond to your rant. the reason for the undoing may well be exactly as you described it, but i feel like the whole undoing of all these people suggests that they were serious ever at any point, ever. is that wrong for me to think that? i've sat on this, that there are a lot of people who run for president for the wrong reasons. there are plenty of people who want to be president, but don't want to do the hard work to get there. but i think race has played a role in this whole cain debacle. >> um, it has been a debacle. >> it has been a debacle. an entertaining, sad, amuse debacl