tv The Ed Show MSNBC April 3, 2012 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
burglaries. i don't care about what he was wearing. i don't care about, you know, whether or not george zimmerman george zimmerman had some issues suspicions. we need to know why did george zimmerman shoot trayvon martin in the chest. end of conversation. nothing about planting corn, reaping corn. >> that's going to be the last on the case. thank you for joining us. live edition of the ed show is up next. it's a clean sweep from mitt romney tonight. the former massachusetts governor is creeping closer to the republican nomination for president. nbc news called the state of wisconsin this evening. romney is also the projected winner in washington, d.c. nbc also projects romney as the winner in the state of maryland
in their republican primary. paul ryan played the role of ann romney tonight. ryan introduced the candidate to supporters in milwaukee in what might have been an audition to be romney's running mate. >> we need solutions not excuses. we need a president who takes the lead not one who spreads the blame. we need someone who appeals to our dreams and our aspirations, not to our fears and anxieties. >> romney continued where ryan left off portraying president obama as someone who wants to transform america. >> i don't want to transform america. i want to restore to america the economic values of freedom and opportunity and limited government that has made us the power house of the world. >> time, money and math are against rick santorum's chances to have any further success in
the presidential race, but tonight the candidate vowed to carry on. >> we have now reached the point where it's halftime. half the delegates in this process have been selected and who is ready to charge out of the locker room in pennsylvania for the second half. >> santorum continued to prebt himself as the true conservative and warned of failure if republicans choose mitt romney. >> ladies and gentlemen, if we're going to win this race, we can't have little differences between our nominee and president obama. we have to have clear contrasting colors. someone that has a clear positive vision. someone whose convictions are forged in steel not on an etch a sketch. >> many people think that rick santorum is on the ropes. let's check in with our crew tonight. let's bring in karen finney.
eugene robinson with us tonight. howard fineman. great to have all of you with us. karen, you first. the big question as paul ryan got a lot of attention tonight and he's had a lot of attention all week long because he's been connected at the hip with mitt romney all over the state of wisconsin, which romney won tonight. does mitt romney have the guts to pick paul ryan because of this budget plan? it's going to be be what people think will be a rope around their neck. does she the guts to pick this guy? >> i don't think. we're looking at a rob portman. someone with a profile within the republican party. remember with paul ryan, part of the reason to be sort of appeasing him and joined at the hip with him is because with him
comes tea party support and he's trying to chip away some of that from rick santorum. maybe paul ryan somewhere in the cabinet. that may be the conversation but i don't think he's going to be the guy down the hall. >> howard, you saw president obama's speech today. is the president already assuming the general election between himself and mitt romney has begun? this i believe was the first time the president has mentioned romney by name. he was very forceful in his speech today. >> yes. he was forceful to the point of being grimly determined to make the case that the paul ryan budget belongs to the republican party, it belongs to mitt romney. it's the defining feature of the modern hard right republican party and barack obama is prepared to run against it and run against it hard. i was struck at the speech he gave before the newspaper editors. he didn't talk about his own record. he didn't talk about the
administration's accomplishments. he focused almost exclusively on the ryan budget and that's to firm up the base of the democratic party what the president is going to focus on. >> romney's new take on president obama was to thrown out tonight and i guess it's to pants him out ov touch which i found surprising. >> it's enough to make you think years flown around air force one by staff telling you're great and doing great job, it's enough to make you think you might become out of touch with that and that's what happened. >> is out of touch a dangerous attack for mitt romney to make. that's a new one to me. one thing i've never heard him being labeled and that's out of touch. >> this is an extreme to turn a strength into a weakness. if i were mitt romney, i would walk very gingerly there.
who is the candidate with the car elevator in his house. the states have voted. we seem to be right where we were when we started. we know mitt romney is likely going to be the nominee. rick santorum won't get out. if this is just halftime, i need some gatorade. i'm not going to make it. >> you need to be liquidated in that climate. >> santorum's speech was interesting because he compared himself to ronald reagan in 1976 and the losing reagan campaign for the nomination when he lost to gerald ford and reminded the audience that reagan came back four years later. you wonder if that's the
scenario that's in the back of rick santorum's mind. he caught himself at the end and said let's skip the mistake this time and go straight to the happy ending. you have to wonder why that story sticks in his mind. >> karen, mitt romney kept returning to this message of believing in america as if no one does believe in america under president obama. >> we believe in america. we believe in ourselves. our greatest days are still ahead. we are afterall americans. >> we're americans. is he trying to sell voters on the idea that president obama doesn't believe in america. president obama doesn't believe in the america where you can look at the ryan plan that mitt romney endorses, he doesn't believe in anything that we have going right now. >> remember back in 2008, believe was part of the obama hope and change and believe was one of messages. i think it's a little different. i think this was the beginning of the general election.
that speech romney kind of pivoted talking more lofty rhetoric. he sounded like a general election candidate. i think we're going to see that playing itself out. one thing i thought was real interesting about this speech, it also was romney on defense. he was definitely trying to react many of the points that president obama made today to the newspaper association. >> howard, here is more of president obama's speech. i want you to react to it high pressure here it is. >> i believe this is make our break moment for the middle class. i can't remember a time when the choice between competing visions of our future has been so unambiguously clear. instead of moderating their views even slightly, the republicans running congress right now have doubled down and proposed a budget so far to the
right it makes the contract with america look like the new deal. >> wow. he's really coming out smoking, no question about it. is the ryan budget going to be the key to the president's re-election effort? >> i don't know in the end that it will frankly. i think that for now it's a good way to try to mobilize and energize the base out of fear of what the republicans might do. obviously the obama campaign is trying to make the election frame it as a referendum on a choice between the president's vision and paul ryan's. ultimately the president will have to talk about his own record and where the country has come in the last three or four years and where it's not come. toward the end of the campaign he will be focussed more on independent voters at the last minute and last weeks and months. there's he's not going to be talking so much about bashing paul ryan in holding up the
scary image of the republican alternative as he's going to try to be saying that he is the guy that can fashion a deal. right now the speech was very antagonistic. very up against the wall. that works for now. he still has to be the guy who can bring about change in washington and be the barack obama that we hoped for a few years ago. i think they are aware of this. they're going this now. they're going to do something later. >> eugene robinson i got another question for you now that you gatoraded up. we have a poll that showed that the white evangelical, the tea party and the conservatives in wisconsin, this was the best night that mitt romney has had. there seems to be all of these groups converging behind what seems to be the inevitable nominee. is this a turning point? is wisconsin a turning point for
mitt romney? was this a big step? i should point out that washington, d.c., maryland and wisconsin is going to be pretty good territory for president obama. we did see conservatives come out in exit polling that they are starting to come together for romney. what does it mean? >> i think there's a certain coalescing we have seen. in the end the margin between the two has held pretty stable at about 42 to 38. maybe that will grow later on in the evening. this is a state that santorum really wanted to win. that's not a thumping victory. there's still a lot of republicans who aren't sold. >> karen, here was rick santorum in pennsylvania today after he took the loss. >> and half the other people until this country have yet to
be heard, and we're going to go out and campaign here and across this nation to make sure their voices are heard in the next few months. >> he doesn't sound like a guy that is getting out any time soon. >> no. >> he's kind of a peak and valley. he sends messages that maybe i'm going to get out soon and then we're going to the convention. >> this could billie the five ss of acceptance. the argument the santorum campaign is he had gingrich's delegates and unpledged delegates then he could have more delegates than romney. if you're making that argument, that's a losing argument. republicans are starting to accept that we don't want a floor fight. we want to get this over with. >> rick santorum has made the case throughout this campaign season that he connects with the lunch bucket worker. he is the guy that understands the middle class. he is the guy that understands
those who take a shower after work, so to speak. he is lost in wisconsin, in michigan, in ohio, in illinois and now he stands the chance even though he has a slim lead in the polls in pennsylvania, he could go home and there. level of embarrassment. what do you think? >> i think he better be careful about pennsylvania. as you say the polls are close. pennsylvania republicans while they have been trending more conservative are still having an establishment ting to them. i don't think they necessarily want the race to go on for ever. the fact that the polls now in wisconsin stand, the race stands at 42-38. everybody in the world has basically said this race is over. for mitt romney to only win in wisconsin by 42-38, if that ends
up being what it is. santorum's continuing presence shows is not that santorum is going to win anything, but it just shows that mitt romney continues to be a kind of eh, candidate on the republican said. he just does. he just cannot be convincing to the whole party. >> we've kind of got possibly a replay of 2008. they really weren't all that excited about john mccain so he had to get a game changer. howard, if it is mitt romney, he's going to have to search and get a game changer too? >> depends on what the polls look like in the summer. everybody read the book and seen the movie. john mccain didn't decide until
late. he will be conservative and go with somebody like rob portman of ohio. if he hasn't been able to get women voters or hispanics, if he hasn't been able to get the tea party lined up or the evangelicals, then he will have to do something dramatic. we don't know if that's the case. i think it's amazing given how weak a candidate romney is that he's only behind by a few points in the gallup poll and in the national polls. barack obama should be way out ahead given how weak romney is. what that shows you in the end is this is going to be a close election. i really think so. >> thanks for staying up late and joining us. coming up on "the ed show." president obama details how the ryan plan will hurt the middle class. msnbc policy analyst will join me next. mitt romney's unzip a new
coming up, the president explains how the ryan plan hurts the working americans. what do tonight's results mean for the gop candidates? steve and richard weigh in. what happened in north dakota of all places? we'll update you on the massive tornadoes that ripped through the dallas-ft. worth area. the public information officer of johnson county texas will have a report from the ground. stay with us. we're right back.
welcome back. today president obama talked about two visions of america. he laid out the real effect of romney-ryan budget. >> nearly $10 million college students would see their financial aid cut by an average of $1,000 each. if this budget becomes law and the cuts were applied evenly starting in 2014, over 200,000 children would lose their chance to get early education. two million mothers and young children would be cut from a program that gives them access to healthy food. we wouldn't have the capacity to enforce the laws to protect the air we breathe, the water we drink or the food that we eat. >> that's just a slice of it. the ryan plan would be a double whammy for states already hurting for money when the
federal government is forced to cut back aid to states it's going to affect cops, first responders, teachers all at the local level. 37%, grab that number, folks, 37% of the tax breaks benefit the wealthiest americans. those making more than $1 million a year. this sounds pretty familiar. ryan wants to give another boost to the top 1% to those that have seen their income skyrocket over the last three decades while wages have been flat for the blue liners, the middle class. let's turn to ezra. the wealthy get most of the tax breaks but 62% of the budget cuts come from low income americans. is that correct? >> you've broken it down fairly well. here is what it does. it spends trillions of dollars on tax cuts, on defense spending and deficit reduction and it
pays for that by cutting programs for the poor and programs for seniors and sort of everything else the government does which is a fairly small bit. the big transfer is programs for the poor get cut in order to fund the main priorities of the ryan budget. you can't get away from making deep cuts into medicare, medicaid and food stamps. i thought it was telling when ryan released his response, he didn't say the president has my budget wrong. he didn't say the facts were wrong. he said i'm disappointed in the president. he should have been nicer to me. he can't argue with the math because the math is correct. >> well, this budget, if it goes after the food stamp program will hit the farm economy because the food stamp program is in the farm bill. rural america will have to take a real haircut and the farming community across america which agriculture is one of our biggest industries will feel the effects.
is ryan's budget plan a deficit reduction plan? >> if he was able to follow the actual trajectory then it is. he doesn't really explain how he would get there. he went to the congressional budget office and said the way you will score this plan is follow the rules i set out for you and the rules is you will assume that my plan brings medicare down to this level, taxes to here. you'll assume it brings other domestic spending to there. he doesn't say how he'll get it there. in 2050, the plan expects everything that the government does, defense, transportation, education, infrastructure will be less than 3.5% of gdp. right now it's 12.5. there's no way to get there. if he could cut the budget that
dramatically, sure he could. >> the president called it a trojan horse. i assume he's talking about medicare because a lot of people will take a whammy here. are the numbers correct? we heard everything from 5 to $7,000 in reduction of benefits if it's put in place. is that right? >> i think it's important to say ryan backed off on his original plans. he used to have it at the growth of inflation but now it's gdp. it would cut the long term spending of medicare. i don't know about 5 to 7,000. the president's april budget proposal, his deficit reduction proposal has the same growth. he gets it by going at providers and trying to get at value base insurance design. ryan passes more costs onto consumers. in ryan's plan the cuts are not coming from programs for seniors. they are coming from programs
from the poor. medicaid takes a larger cut. medicaid and other programs take a cut that's twice the level of the cut that's to medicare. >> no doubt the wealthiest americans get more money back, correct? they have to pay in less. >> the millionaires get a tax cut of about $265,000. >> thanks for joining us tonight. >> thank you. up next, is it really all over for rick santorum after tonight? we'll have richard wolf. a pair of violent tornadoes barrel through dallas this afternoon. we'll have the latest update for you.
it's been a big night for mitt romney. nbc has projected mitt romney will win in the state of wisconsin. nbc news has projected mitt romney will win the maryland primary. nbc news has projected rom will win in the district of columbia. rick santorum has yet to prove he can do well in states with a manufacturing base. this is a problem for him and romney is outspendsing santorum by 450 50 to 1 in the state of wisconsin. here is a perfect example. in the state of north dakota, santorum won the caucus this
march. what did that mean? ron paul won in second? mitt romney won third. the candidate walking away with most of the delegates was mitt romney. then you have the president of the united states picking them both apart. >> ronald reagan who as i recall is not accused of being a tax and spend socialist understood repeatedly when the deficit started to get out of control for him to make a deal, he would have to propose both spending cuts and tax increases. did it multiple times. he could not get through a republican primary today. >> i'm joined tonight by steve schmidt and richard wolf. good to have you with us tonight.
steve, i want to you about what unfolded up on the prairie. mitt romney finishes third. the republican establishment goes to work and romney walks away with the delegates, the majority of the delegates. i understand the rick santorum camp is pretty hot about this process. isn't this ignoring the will of the people when they caucus? what do you make of this? >> this isn't a general election. it's a caucus process in the republican party. the romney campaign is ready for prime time. they followed the rules. they got the delegates. another example of rick santorum's campaign not being ready to play at this level and that's why his campaign is all but over as we come to tonight and mitt romney is on the edge of being the nominee. >> romney did have some of his attorneys to that campaign this weekend. they must have done some pretty fast talking. romney looks like he's going to be get it, we might as well go with him? what about that? >> it's very powerful.
the idea of being the insurgent is that you can steal momentum and build on it. we have seen a number try to get it and fail on it and then hold out. plan b was to stop mitt romney from getting enough delegates to take the nominee at the convention. that plan b is now collapsing. they're not playing the state conventions. they're not winning the caucuses. really there's nowhere left to go. >> if north dakota is a model for the rest of the states left. what's going to stop mitt romney from be the mas being the man? >> nothing is going to stop him from being the man. the race is effectively over. the only person that doesn't seem to understand that is rick santorum and newt gingrich. santorum is like the guy at the blackjack table that doesn't
know when to walk away and cash in his chips. you saw today with the president he's beginning to frame this race. republicans have made a decision not to focus the message on the president's economic record but to frame a choice between the ryan budget and president obama. republicans are going to have to do a better job than they did today at communicating around these issues. if you look at the damage done to mitt romney in the republican primary, you understand why the president is trying to seize ground in the middle of the electorate, today. you also understand why people want rick santorum out of the race so mitt romney is start to merge his operation with the rnc, begin to off load a number of overhead cash expenses and get on into the general election. really a santorum candidacy doesn't serve more purpose except to conflict damage on mitt romney in the context of a general election. he doesn't have a chance to be the nominee any longer. it will be interesting to see how long he stays in and continues to attack the guy that will be the nominee. >> richard, what's happened to this talk about brokered convention.
our exit polling shows in maryland and the district of columbia, that white evangelicals, tea partiers and conservatives are starting to converge and recognize it's going to be mitt romney and he wins in both of those places tonight. what about the brokered convention? what happened to all that hot talk? >> it does require the other candidates to get enough delegates to make it difficult, if not impossible, for mitt romney to meet the magic number. they just failed to do that. there are going to be surprises down the road. i'm sure rick santorum will pick up a couple of states going down the track. it's not going to be enough to get him to the point where the math works for him at the convention. by the time, the party will come together. the debate will be engaged with the president, with the white house, with the chicago campaign, and that contrast between the two sides is going to lead to people converging on mitt romney, but still, it will
be those questions. i think santorum's plan, if he does have one, the loser keeps getting the next shot in the next four years so there's a reason to hang on if only to book a place for 2016. >> thanks for your time. an arrest is made in the planned parenthood bombing. we'll go to wisconsin for the latest. women don't care about contraception. they care about jobs and the economy. >> women are running away from republicans thanks to comments like that one. terry o' neil on the republican war on women. this is something i've never seen before. >> an epic storm rips through north texas. the devastation is widespread. we'll have a report from dallas-ft. worth.
mitt romney knows he has a problem with women voters. polls don't lie. romney is trailing president obama by 18 points with women voters in swing states. this morning romney, well i guess you can say he shook the etch a sketch and explained his new strategy to tackle the gender gap. >> i believe the way we'll get women voters is by talking about how we will get this economy going again. it's not going to be by attacking the economy and attacking business and attacking success like this president is doing. >> romney is looking for an avenue to win back women voters. his surrogate, south carolina governor didn't do him any favors today on the view. >> a lot of times people associate women's rights with liberals and not republican women. how do you say we are here representing women. >> all of my policy is not based on a label. it's based on what i lived and what i know. women don't care about contraception. they care about jobs and the economy and raising their
families and all of their things. >> they care about contraception too. >> that's not the only thing they care about. >> when rick santorum says he will take it away, we care. >> let's be clear, we're saying we don't government to mandate when we have to have it and when we don't. we don't need government making that decision for us. >> elizabeth couldn't save her from that flip-flop. polling shows women do care. the republicans war on women have only hurt them in the polls. if the gop continues to support radical, mandatory ultrasound measures and preparing to rally around a presidential candidate who vows to defund planned parenthood. she should be more aware of which party is making women's reproductive health choices for them. let's turn to terry o'neil.
what is more important? maybe the governor from south carolina is right. do women care more about the economy or their personal health care? >> both and they are both really intertwined. what women don't want is catholic bishops telling them when and when they can't take birth control. this whole notion that contraception access is not about women, it's about a bunch of male religious leaders is flabbergasting. >> what would you say to governor haley if you had been sitting there? >> i would have said women care about birth control because that is key to their -- to the economic health of their family as well as their own personal health. it's fundamental to women's preventative health care to prevent pregnancies. think back to the days when women were have 12, 13 and 20 pregnancies. in childbirth they died younger and lived sicker and their
families were poorer. i've heard from so many men thanking me and our allied organizations for standing up for birth control because what the men say it's not just about my wife or my partner's health care, it's about our family finances. >> would you say republicans are advocating for gender discrimination. they're against the affordable health care act. it's going to prohibit health insurance gender discrimination. this is a great economic argument for democrats and it's also very personal to people when you start talking about who can get what kind of insurance and why women should be discriminated against. >> that's the thing that i think a lot of people perhaps have not grappled with is that the claim of religious liberty that the religious leaders, the catholic
bishops are saying about birth control, yes they have a religious liberty in the constitution but women have the right to not be discriminated against. when constitutional rights are in conflict, the courts have to balance them and weigh them. really not only have the right to not be discriminated against but we have a right of religious freedom and if our religion say it's okay to use birth control, they have nothing to sell us. >> nart senator olympia snow votes for the blunt amendment. >> she says the republicans are engaged in a retro debate when it comes to contraception. are we going to see more republicans with buyer remorse on this war on women. we're seeing that in the polls right now. we're seeing in ohio in that senate race and the senate race in florida and president obama leading mitt romney in women. now you've got a republican senator who is retiring saying, you know what, there's going to be buyers remorse. what do you think? >> i think there's definitely going to be buyer's remorse.
the senator from alaska has had to apologize to her women constituents who were furious with her for voting for the blunt amendment. i think it's important to recognize what some people will be saying, which is, women don't care about it. that's the bullies response. that's the oh, i was just joking. >> she says that the economy is more important than women's health care. women don't care about contraception. if that's going to be the republican line, take it all the way to november, please. >> yeah. ed, women do care about jobs, in which case mitt romney needs to completely disavow the ryan budget which kills jobs for women. >> great to have you with us. thanks to much. a terrifying storm system left trail of destruction through the dallas-ft. worth area this afternoon. it was a dandy. the public information officer for johnson county sheriff's office will bring us the latest. stay with us.
at least two massive tornadoes ripped through the dallas-ft. worth area. the twister tore roofs off houses and tossed tractor trailers into the air. the storm system was slow-moving about 25 miles per hour which means it had more time to cause damage. golf size hail was reported near the dallas-ft. worth area. hundreds of flights were cancelled and airlines are reporting more than 110 aircraft was damaged.
so far, more than a dozen injuries have been reported, but there are no reports of fatalities, which is nothing short of a miracle. joining me tonight by phone is lieutenant tim jones. he's the public information officer for the johnson county sheriff's office. is that the case, there are to fatalities? bring us up to date. >> in johnson county we had no injuries at all. >> what was the response? how did that work out. this is the most horrific tornado you folks have seen in years? >> yes, it was. we're in the southwest part of the metroplex. the tornado started to spin up over our area and went towards the dfw area. we had about nine agencies that responded to the area that we had our tornadoes in probably about 45 or 50 people. >> what's the extent of the damage?
this is so widespread, isn't it? >> it is very widespread. in our county we're very lucky. we only had it drop down and hi outbuildings, but it was a rural area. it wasn't a residential area. as it traveled towards dallas-ft. worth, it ended up into a residential and business areas. >> when these tornadoes were coming through and coming through slow and doing a lot of damage, how was the communication systems, and how did the people respond? >> in johnson county, to my knowledge, the sirens were going off. we knew the sirens were going off, the alerts were going off the radio, people were taking shelter, you know, as much as we could tell. the biggest thing is when those do happen and you hear those alarms, don't take them for granted. they go off for a reason. >> if you had to characterize the response, what would you say? >> in our area and what i've seen in dfw, i think as far as public safety, we did an excellent job.
>> lieutenant tim jones, it's a miracle no one lost their life tonight. we can always replace stuff on the ground, but lives cannot be replaced. thank you, lieutenant. i appreciate your time. we're just minutes away from the polls closing in wisconsin. mitt romney has high hopes for a victory, but an ee leelectielec campaign stop at a sub shop may have violated law. we have the details.
up next, scott walker has been absent from the campaign trail as the gop candidates toured his state. john nichols explains why he might be the one avoiding them. don't forget to listen to me, my radio show on sirius xm channel 127 monday through friday noon to 3:00 p.m. and on progressive talk stations around the country. and follow me on twitter and like the ed show on facebook. stay tuned. rear right back.
and in the big finish, wisconsinite hopes tonight's selection will put an end to the robo calls that have bombarded residents over the last few weeks. some residents have reported getting up to ten calls a day. that's pufun. and the romney campaign's robo calls have tried to connect santorum to union leaders. >> the union bosses are trying to influence the election today by having democrats vote for rick santorum to the republican primary will last even longer. santorum and his cronies tried this in michigan, and it didn't work there.
don't let them do it here. vote against the union bosses and vote for romney. >> santorum's supporters are getting into the robo calls war as well as focusing on social issues. >> when you vote foam, please vote for social sanity and rick santorum, not for homosexuality and mitt romney. >> rick santorum is the only candidate who can be trusts to uphold traditional marriage, a straight military and the rights of american children to have both a mother and father. >> there's been one major player missing in wisconsin, governor scott walker. romney and santorum are more than happy to run on walker's anti-union agenda, but they don't want to be seen with him on the campaign trail. scott walker could become the republican party's biggest loser if he loses his recall election in june. plus, he's the first governor to set up a criminal defense fund, and no candidate wants to risk having his or her photo taken next to a guy who could turn out to be a felon. let's turn to john nichols,
washington correspondent of "the nation" magazine and author of "uprising." john, i've got a sense in wisconsin yesterday that they just want to get all this republican shenanigans owl of the way and get with the recall. but i want to talk about this story first about what happened with the subway sandwich today. apparently mitt romney and paul ryan handed out free subs at a campaign event today. the wisconsin democratic party. the wisconsin democratic party is filing a lawsuit for violating state election law. what do you know about this? >> well, wisconsin's a pretty old-school state. and it has always had a law going back the better part of a century against giving away free food or free drinks on election day. we didn't want to have what some people referred to as that chicago-style politics. and so it's a very purist state in that regard, and there are strict laws. to be honest, i find it hard to imagine anybody would decide to vote for mitt romney in return
for a subway sandwich, but ryan himself should have known better. i mean, this is something every political figure in wisconsin knows. you don't give away free food on election day. >> well, there's got to be a commercial here with this video somewhere that the republican party is at the head of a bread line giving bread out to people. i mean, there's got to be a message there because that's exactly what maybe ryan's budget is going to do to some people. that might be a stretch, but i think you know where i'm going. do you think scott walker -- >> well, you take away their medicare and medicaid. >> well, that's very true. that is very true. it is a ruthful budget. >> give them some free food. >> what about scott walker not appearing with either one of these guys? who's doing this? is walker doing this? or is romney and santorum doing this? >> that's a really good question. at this point i think santorum is so desperate that he would have been glad to appear with scott walker, to be face to face
with the guy. for romney, it's a much more complicated issue. he loves being next to ryan because ryan will be around no matter what. he's a steady figure. walker is a much more volatile player. romney and santorum are glad to talk about how they agree with walker. they are big for the anti-union stuff. they're big for the cuts. but to actually be photographed with scott walker at this point is a rather dangerous thing. and i think walker and romney both understand that. that picture comes back to haunt both men. if, by chance, walker is defeated in a recall or if he runs into big legal trouble, that's embarrassing for romney. by the same token, walker is going into a recall election where he's going to desperately be trying to present himself as a moderate figure. so he really doesn't want a picture of him next to presidential candidate who's had to run hard, hard to the right. so bottom line is, i think they've sort of decided to keep their distance, but they've talked eacher