tv Andrea Mitchell Reports MSNBC April 19, 2013 10:00am-11:00am PDT
know, one suspect is dead, another suspect, dzhokah tsarnaev is on the run. believed to be holed up in watertown, massachusetts, his brother, 26-year-old tamerlan tsarnaev was killed after an overnight shootout with police. law enforcement fills say that both are from the russian region near chechnya and have been living in the united states with family members for about a decade. their estranged uncle spoke if maryland a short time ago. >> jihad, turn yourself in. and act forgiveness. if the injured, and those who left, ask forgiveness from these people. if we're ashamed, people are ashame on the family, our family, you put shame on 9
entire chechen. >> across boston, an unprecedented situation. the entire city and metropolitan area, all surrounding suburbs effectively shut down. all mass transit suspended. no a no-fly zone in effect. people have been told to stay inside their homes. >> keep the doors locked, do not open the door unless there is a uniformed, identified law enforcement officer on other side of it, requesting to come inside. >> there have been victims, police say that the bombing suspect shot and killed, 26-year-old sean collier. an m.i.t. patrol officer around 10:30 on campus last night. a short time later, they reportedly carjacked a mercedes suv in cambridge. that led to a police chase through watertown where the suspects exchanged gunfire, threw explosives and hand grenades out the car window. during the chase, a transit officer was seriously injured, he has been hospitalized. the chase ended when authorities shot and killed 26-year-old
tamerlan tsarnaev. nbc's pete williams reports he was run over by the car driven by his brother. and when police approached his body, they discovered an ied strapped to his chest. he was transported to the hospital where he was pronounced dead. let's bring in nbc national investigative correspondent, michael isikoff. let's talk about what we foe in the scene right now. the police have said they have new leads within the last few minutes that they are exploring and that they want everyone to stay inside. >> exactly. a pretty good sign that this situation is still very fluid, still very tense. and we don't know where it's going or how long the manhunt is going to be taking place. i should point out, andrea, that i am right behind what is the principal staging area for the police and the military here. all morning long we had convoys of military humvees coming in, buses of police, motorcycles, of
state police, blackhawk helicopters have been flying in and over this area. landing just behind me on the other side. at one point i thought it looked to me like there they were planning for some sort of a confrontation or assault. that hasn't taken place. but activity seems to have picked up and waned at various points in the morning. we are still waiting to see where this goes. we know there's going to be controlled explosion. that police are going to execute on norfolk street in just a little while. there is that other ied that was found in boston. earlier this morning, and i can't stress how significant that is. because even if they capture mr. tsarnaev, and and the manhunt ends with a capture of him, there's still the question, did he booby trap this city.
are there other ieds out there? that will make it very difficult for authorities to reach the point where they can say, it's safe to go back out on the streets. >> michael isikoff. thank you very much. authorities have said they've told the community that this afternoon, early this afternoon, there will be a controlled explosion of an ied at the norfolk street address in cambridge, massachusetts. joining me here at the table in the studio is david gregory, moderator of "meet the press." tom ridge, the former homeland security secretary, the first homeland security secretary. and former counterterrorism chief at the nfc, roger cressey. also on the phone or in new york, let me bring in now jonathan dienst, from wnbc. jonathan, you have some information on travel by tamerlan tsarnaev in and out of the country. which could be a significant lead. >> it is a lead that has concerned authorities and they're taking a hard look at it he's the one with the black hat, the one who died in the standoff
with police overnight. the records that have, that explain to us is that he traveled last year, over six-month period, out of the united states. he flew out of new york on january 12th, 2012, to moscow and returned on july 17th, 2012. and whether he was visiting relatives, we're told he does have family there. but at the same time, they want to know whether he went for any sort of terror training during those travels. a couple of other points that highlight how these two brothers were not on the radar screen of law enforcement until after the bombings at the marathon. and that's because on these travel documents, for this older brother, he's listed as a person or instrument that may pose a threat to the security of the united states. and that that is posted on the documents this morning. at 6:00 a.m.
for the younger brother, it says, he's a known or suspected terrorist. and their associates, facilitators and family members also placed this morning at 6:29 a.m. so it shows how quickly law enforcement was trying to catch up with the suspects. and the label on their travel documents at minimum, to try to stop them from leaving the country and catch up with them. but unfortunately as we see, they were ahead of them, before the boston marathon and now this horrible standoff over the last 24 hours. one final note, a bit of an irony, the younger brother became a naturalized u.s. citizen on 9/11, 2012. that according to these documents. andrea? >> jonathan dienst. thank you so much for a lot of good, new information. here at the table, first secretary ridge, you and you were both talking earlier. the fact that the younger brother became a u.s. citizen on
9/11 last year. hardly a coincidence, most likely not a coincidence. but the fact is that there is an m.o. here. of people who do want to become engaged in activity, becoming u.s. citizens if they can. because it becomes easier to move in and out of the country. >> i think that's true. i think that's an m.o., that you described it, that law enforcement and the intelligence community has been aware of for quite some time. this puts a tragic exclamation point on that very notion. it becomes a part of speculation right now, whether they had operational guidance, when the older brother goes to moscow, and makes arrangements to be trained, whether or not they are ideologically connected to any groups. >> we don't know if he went for training. what we do know is he was outside of the country. which does lead to some questions that obviously national security officials, like roger cressey. your former colleagues, are probably pursuing at this very minute. >> absolutely.
andrea. now there's a body of information that the intelligence community and the national security bureaucracy can start to pull apart and bring back together, based on what they learn, both domestically and from relationships with lee asiaison services overseas. clearly this there will be communications with the russians, the federal security service, their fbi, their foreign service, new version of the kgb, to learn what was there. but as the governor said, we're very early on in this investigation. what type of linkages, it's going to take some time before we can identify them. >> and youunderlining the fact williams reported, there may be others beyond these two involved. that's the obvious question for law enforcement. >> is there a cell? >> is there a cell? who are they in communication with, here or abroad, is this part of a larger plot? i remember an analyst saying this is probably somebody with ties to boston. part of the story you made reference to it, if he's a u.s. citizen, the one still at large, the brother still at large, what
happened to him while he was here? we're hearing on our air about you know people who wrestled with him or -- >> high school classmates who says that he was -- he was a regular kid. that he was in and out of their homes. they went to proms together. i mean -- >> something happened along the way where he became something quite different. either exposure to those abroad or somehow becoming radicalized here. which i think is what takes us into some new territory here. both for law enforcement and cyst counterterrorists as well. >>? the worst of both worlds, they traveled overseas, we don't know what hall happened overseas yet. as we used to say in the national security world. terrorists when they talk and they travel, they become vulnerable to detection. only if we know their names in advance. it demonstrates the gravity of people radicalized when they're already inside the united states. >> let me take a step back and point out that vladimir putin,
the russian president, was elected originally partly because of his tough response to be the chechnya rebellion and has issued a condolence letter or calls or message i should say, rather, to the white house, to the president today. they've posted on the website, the russian embassy, condolences to the american people and a strong stand against terrorism. so in terms of the global context, this only strengthens putin's hard-line approach, certainly both in his own country and in the international community. i want to bring in now, nbc news senior executive producer, investigative unit, richard esposito from new york. richard, first of all you've been coordinating a lot of the breaking developments here, all of the breaking developments and we've been very cautious all along. not to speculate beyond what we know. but what we do now know significantly as roger and david here and secretary ridge are pointing out. is that the older brother did travel outside of the united
states. what to your knowledge are they now looking for in terms of any kind of foreign connection to this terror attack here? >> well that's exactly what they're going to start with. is that he did travel. at the moment, we don't know what happened when he traveled. so what will they look for? they will look for the travel pattern. new associates that he might have established while traveling. contact with radicalized individuals that he might have, that might have encouraged his travel even here with radicalized people here. we don't know that these are jihadis, we don't know what motivated them yet. that's a path for them to explore, the out of country travel. just like they'll explore their activities on the internet and cell phone records. they'll dig deep into their travels of every kind. their physical and virtual. to try get a picture of what brought them to this place, andrea. >> and richard i know you'll be
standing by. i want to bring in ron allen on the scene there have been interviews with high school classmates, some may have been those who tipped the fbi to the identity, once they saw the pictures. i know savannah guthrie interviewed earlier, sierra schwartz, a high school classmate who talked about what regular kids they were. they were friends, they were pals, they were sociable. they were on the wrestling team. they were wrestlers, they were boxers. also john curran, the former boxing coach. described the younger brother as a puppy dog who used to follow the older son. what are you, what are you hearing from the community there? and what's happening at the scene? >> we're hearing shock and disbelief as you might imagine, andrea. i mean so many times you come to one of these crime scenes and people always÷a kind of quiet, kept to themselves. there seems to be nothing unremarkable, until now. about these, nothing remarkable about these two young men.
i should also tell you, as you probably, as you well know, cambridge is a very diverse community. this is a neighborhood of modest homes and restaurants and shops. a lot of people from a lot of places. so aócd family that came here, that's ethnic chechens, came here from russia about ten years ago would not necessarily stand out. there was nothing that was terribly remarkable about them. so people are just amazed. we're about two blocks from where the brothers and we believe their mother lived, down that street behind me back there. where there's a very heavy police presence. the authorities said at the briefing a little while ago, they're going to conduct a controlled explosion here, sometime this afternoon, of a device that they have found. they've been going through the house, they 24i6r7k it's booby-trapped and they want to secure it before they go in and search. >> thank you, ron allen. pete williams who has been on top of all the breaking developments throughout all week long joins us from the news room. pete?
>> yes, andrea. i think one of the questions we're trying to get a handle on here is why this extraordinary security for boston. if they're just looking for one person. and i think my best understanding of this after talking to several officials is, somewhere in this range, number one, that one person has shown himself to be extraordinarily dangerous. think of the misery and the destruction caused on monday in the marathon. look at the, the violence last night. and so you have that factor. you have the fact that an additional bomb was found this morning in boston. in the charles gate area, found by police and disarmed. and then you have the i guess it can best be described as the possibility that they can't rule out, i'm told that there's no hard reason to think that this scenario is the case. but there's no way to rule it
out at this point, that others were involved. either in being sympathetic with them or helping to move along the marathon bomb plot, whatever. because they can't be sure i guess is the best way to say it. they've gone to this extraordinary step of in essence locking down boston. so that's where we are right now. they still are searching the city. looking for additional bombs, haven't found any. haven't found any positive indication that other people were involved in the bombing. but they just don't quite know what's happening here and they want to be very careful. >> pete, bring me up to speed on what happened earlier with someone who was being described as a possible accomplice. and someone who was being pursued, even searched for on the train that left boston and was heading out to connecticut and was stopped in connecticut. >> there was a concern that perhaps somebody that was, that
was a possible accomplice is the way it was described, had tried to leave the city on the train. but that turned out not to be true. >> okay. so we put that to rest. the bomb that was found earlier today in charles gate, do we know the origin of that? the provenance of it? can we date it from any kind of video or surveillance? or -- >> no, no, not -- >> or think it could have been placed before these two young men were on the run? >> i don't know the answer to that question. none of the people i talked to know when it was placed there, precisely where it was placed. i'm sure they're going back and looking at surveillance video to try to figure out how it got there. i don't have the answer to that question yet. >> okay. pete, thanks so much for being on top of all of this for everyone here at nbc news. nbc's katie tour is in watertown. katie, do you want to describe the scene there in watertown, which has been really ground zero of the search? >> certainly. i had a news conference a little while ago. they said they've been able to comb about 60 to 70% of this
town. they've been knocking on doors, every door for about 12 hours now, we are getting the military helicopters circling once again. they left for a little while. some of them have landed. so i wonder if this guy will be landing as well. the police helicopter stopped circling. for the most part it's calmed down significantly here in the past few hours. we have seen police cruisers, military vehicles go back and forth. there was a flurry of activity a few hours ago. but in the past two, two and a half hours, it has significantly calmed down. they have been knocking on doors as i've said for 12 hours, trying to comb this entire neighborhood for dzhokah tsarnaev, to see where he could possibly be hiding, if he is here. i can tell you we have been here since very, very early this morning and we've only seen a very small handful of residents come out to see what's going on, five, six, maybe ten at the most. this is hours, people are staying inside their homes. the police have no way of enforcing this, andrea. yet, you're not seeing anybody outside. i think that indicates just how
scary this is for a lot of people. they don't want to take any chances. they are staying inside. you know, just after 1:00 on a friday, and this is basically a ghost town. this is the main drag of watertown, if you look over here, you can see you're not seeing anything. this is obviously frozen, it's closed off. this street, though, you could walk out here. and there's nobody on the street right now. it's an indication of just how much anxiety there is around here. people have come out, they've asked us what we know. obviously we don't know too much. we know probably just as much as they do, because they've been watching their television. i can only imagine what it must have been like to wake up this morning, if you did not get woken by all of the explosions and the gunfire that erupted just down the street from me in the middle of the night last night. if you did not get woken up by that last night and you are in this part of watertown, you turn the television on and every network you look at has a reporter saying that the potential terrorists, dzhokah tsarnaev, could be in this town and he could be hiding somewhere. don't come to your doors, if
somebody rings on your doorbell and it is not a police officer, don't answer it. stay inside, hide, call 911. if you see anything suspicious. that's just got to be something -- mind-boggling to wake up to. especially if you have children. this is a leafy, boston suburb. there are lots of kids around here. andrea? >> katie tour. and as empty as those streets are, we've seen photos, stills coming to us and on twitter, from boston. the city of boston is just as empty. people are all being told to stay inside. and they are. out of both fear and out of observance of what their governor, their mayor, asking them to do. earlier today in montgomery village, maryland, outside of the city of washington, very passionate, outraged and clearly frightened uncle of these two boys came out after talking to authorities, and being inundated by reporters. >> my family it has nothing to do with that family.
of course, we're ashamed. yes, we're ashamed, that children of my brother. who has little influence of them. i just wanted my family be away from them. i teach my children and that's what i feel myself. this is the ideal microworld and entire world. i respect this country, i love this country. this country which gives chance to everybody else to be treated as a human being. and to just be human being. to feel yourself human being. that's whey feel about this country. this has nothing to do with chechnya. chechens are different, chechens are peaceful people. >> understandable fear, anger and confusion by a family relative here in the washington, d.c. area. tom ridge, we're seeing a microcosm of something that we've never seen before in america. you have one obviously
well-assimilated chechnyian, ethnic uncle here. other family members around the country, an aunt we spoke to in toronto, in the toronto area by our colleagues in canada. and the father who moved back tñ russia, originally sought asylum here. and two boys who were last talked to or seen by their boxing coach at boston in the public high school, in 2010 and something happened in the last three years. >> well first of all, it's an unprecedented response as you indicated in your question, bottom line is is that an abundance of caution. and you have to credit the citizens, they've been asked not to do anything and near doing that. i know, they're not hiding behind the doors, they're not necessarily sheltered down. but in a post 9/11 world, we've always said if your community law enforcement, the community of law enforcement, political figures ask you to do certain things, listen carefully and do them. they've complied. and you look at these two individuals, you use one part of
the family, use assimilation, it worked well. here, almost chameleon-like, one only knows what dented their hearts, what dented their heads, what ideological impulse drove them to this. but i think it sends a signal to all of us that these weren't necessarily sophisticated terrorists, no it will a grand design orchestrated from overseas, they may be amateurs, but they're lethal amateurs. unfortunately, that's the kind of reality we're going to be dealing with for quite some time. >> david gregory, the administration, according to chuck todd, there was a previously scheduled national security council meeting today. we know secretary of state kerry was meeting with his mexican counterpart. and at this hour, to all of you google hangout fans he and i were supposed to be in a moderated conversation right now and they had to postpone that obviously. because he told us earlier today, did he not feel that he should speak before law enforcement speaks. but that he thinks this does more generically validate the
president's policy that we have to have a global engagement against terror and you never know where it is going to pop up. >> and a new kind of terror, i mean what we have not dealt with is the idea of having radicalized members of the population here, a lot of what we've seen from 9/11 onward are lone wolf cases, a lot of team people coming into the country trying to pull off a plot. as i've spoken to experts today, one of the things that when you increase security in certain areas, going back to what secretary ridge did, creating homeland security, hardening the targets that was the original idea, then terrorists are going to start to adapt and groups are going to start to adapt. those who inspire are going to look for softer targets, we've seen it in this particular case. so understanding what may have radicalized them in this particular case, if in fact that's going to be a key part of it. and what the administration is going to want to do, as well as dealing with whatever
post-boston policy changes may be in the works, a new sense of vulnerability, a new posture for counterterror as washington thinks about it is also to learn everything that can be learned about the run-up to this. were there signs that were missed? whether in travel or other signs. >> or intercepts. >> and of course, thinking about ways to protect an event like the boston marathon. which is so difficult. >> i want to go to ron allen in cambridge. we're looking at aerials right now, ron. we are expecting perhaps shortly, at the norfolk street address, a controlled explosion of a possible ied, correct? >> exactly. this is a home of the two young men believed to have lived there with their mom. authorities, investigators have been out here all morning. we've seen them pretty much dismantle a couple of vehicles that were parked near the house. a big black suv and a silver sedan that were particularly suspicious to them. they have been bomb-sniffing dogs out there, robotic device
as well. we've seen investigators in hazmat white suits, gathering evidence in bags. but the authorities at the last briefing seemed to indicate they have not yet fully entered the premise because there's a concern about it being booby-trapped. that we presume is what they are trying to get at, and detonate and get rid of so that they can then continue their investigation inside the house. of course, once they get inside, perhaps a treasure trove worth of evidence that might reveal a bit more about what these young men were up to, what they were thinking, what motivated them in the past few days. just since the marathon attack. a lot of people that you talk to here and around the community are somewhat amazed that these young men are still so close by. and knowing that of course, is a frightening feeling. because we know that they have a lot of explosives, we believe that there are more explosives involved in the confrontation
with authorities last night. so a lot of people being very cautious. and that's why the order has been in effect for some time, shelter in place. it was put in place for greater boston once a device was discovered this morning. that's when the governor came out and said look we have to extend this just beyond the watertown/cambridge area to include the people who live in greater boston. we can't confirm whether the detonation has taken place. as of yet the area is sealed off. most of the residents who are standing in the streets live in a two-block or so area back there. the streets here are very quiet, there are calm of people milling around, trying to find out what's going on. but for the most part, people as we can determine here and elsewhere in the metropolitan area, are heeding the warning to stay put. stay home. and listen to advice. radio and television. but again, the focus of the police investigation is just a couple of blocks down at the home where the two brothers lived for some time.
andrea, back to you. >> ron allen, thanks so much. and nbc's lester holt is live in watertown. lester, we've been saying but it can't be overemphasized, this is unprecedented. an entire metropolitan area, a major american city and all of its suburbs, shut down. no mass transit. everyone staying indoors at the behest of the governor, voluntarily, at the behest of the governor, their mayor and their state police. >> you know, andrea, i've been racking my brain, i've worked news in new york, san francisco, chicago, in the network over 30 years, i can't think of anything like this. 9/11 i remember them shutting the airplanes down. i've covered hostage situations, standoffs. nothing like this where a metropolitan area is put on hold. at first it sounds so bizarre. if you just think through the events that we have witnessed, it makes a lot of sense. here's two individuals who set these bombs that cut down innocent people, killed three, maimed others.
170, some odd people injured in all. they went on to kill, ambush a police officer, wound another police officer. shoot it out with even more police officers who were chasing them. throwing grenades or explosives at them. and then engaging in a firefight. and the one survivor drives through the police line. what an incredible threat. someone who clearly has nothing to lose and represents an incredible danger. and if you add the possibility that there are accomplices, suddenly it makes a lot of sense, shutting down all the avenues of escape. the transit system, the amtrak. the roads out of this community. now, after that shoot-out, they believe, well they know that the so-called suspect number two gets in that stolen vehicle, the one can carjacked suv, drives through the police, at some point bails on the car itself and that i think is why they believe that he is still in this area here in watertown. they have been taken their
s.w.a.t. teams, methodically working those areas where they think he might be. difficult job and any time you're going after an armed suspect. but one who has demonstrated the capability to make explosive devices, well that ramps up the degree of difficulty quite high. so it will take time. they claim they're making progress, 60% to 70% of the area they want to check, they have gone through. but they know this is also a crime scene. they've got to process the evidence that they already have. try to get to the bottom of whether this threat is truly over. if there are other accomplices. if there are other explosive devices. making sure they have secured those, that were thrown from the vehicle. incredibly complex. nothing as i said i've seen in my career, begins to compare to this. we've not had an ongoing terror threat to this country well certainly since 9/11. that one, as who horrible as it was, it was a finite period of terror this one continues to rattle this entire region.
andrea? >> as you've been speaking from your years and years of experience, tom ridge sit hearing with me is nodding in agreement. that even after 9/11 we did not lock down an american city. people were told to go home where they could move certainly there was a lot of pedestrian traffic in the city moving away from ground zero. but we did not see anything that compares to this kind of a lockdown of a metropolitan area. >> i think the fact of the matter is, is that this individual with or without assistance, may very well have not only be armed, but i think there was one report that his brother had an improvised explosive device on his person as well. one more reason that i'm quite confident that the police have created a secure perimeter. they know exactly the area within which they have to work. within watertown and a very disciplined, house-by-house, block-by-block search. because you're just uncertain as to how armed he is. and you know he is. and you know he's prepared potentially to take others down
with the random, the random effort, the random killings on monday. i think they've done the very, they had to do what they've done. they're to be commended for it the population is to be commended for listening carefully. and adhering. think how complicated this job would be for the police and law enforcement if you had people muscling around and how vulnerable they would be if they were mulling around. so these guys may be amateurs, but they've created a scene and the community has responded as they should. >> and i think local officials in boston are having a press brief, let's listen in. >> numbers of people found their way to work before receiving the message and are now sheltering in place in work sites and offices throughout the region. and particularly in some of our large boston employers. so i need to speak to those people. if you are at work, we do not expect you to shelter in place
and stay there. we encourage you to leave. to get in your cars and drive home. we understand the public transit is not running. taxis are now running in the city of boston. the taxis are valuable. available. if necessary, you can call friends and ask them to pick you up, but we want to make clear that we are not expecting people to be sheltering in place throughout the day and into the night in businesses. so again, i thank the media for helping us deliver this message. we'll push it out a number of ways, but again, if you're at work, please feel free to get in your cars and drive home. and shelter in place at home. call taxis, if necessary. call friends to come get you. thank you very much. >> that was the ems director,
the ems director from watertown, mass. in a press briefing. hold on a second, he's coming back to the microphone. he's just giving his name. and nbc's kerry sanders is in watertown. kerry, i know you've had a very busy couple of hours with the police moving and moving you and others in and out, down the street as they made their searches. what is the situation now? >> right now completely calm. they're actually stopping for lunch. drinking, most of the officers have pulled back. i think there's a little bit of disappointment. because they thought they had the second suspect in an area just a short difficulty frns where i'm standing. it appears that if he was there, they did not get him. the residents, most of them were evacuated, some are still in their homes and so as we've heard, they've gone through about 70% of this area, they still have more to go. the scene though, is one of a little bit more calm and i got
to tell you, the intensity here has been as high-wire act as you can have. at one point, telling us to hit the ground, there were snipers on a roof not far from here, and they were police running around in a, with just about every weapon possible out, drawn. focused on at one point, something that appeared to be a body. i guess it was not. don't really have a full explanation as to what that is. and most of the information out here has been observational. and andrea, i would observe that it has been about as intense effort by the various levels of the government law enforcement here as i have ever seen. >> kerry sanders, you've been through it all, and you know what we did hear from that ems director fromwatertown is that people in the watertown area at work are not expected to shelter at work. they can go home.
so obviously authorities must believe that those streets are safe enough for them to return to their homes in that area. jonathan dienst, is wnbc's crack investigative reporter. the latest from you? >> here in new york we have a couple of races this weekend. and police commissioner kelly has put this city on a type of increased security as a result of what's going on in boston. acting on the presumption that new york, which has often been a target in the past, could become a target again. as a precaution, at these two different races, one in central park, one along the west side highway going down to ground zero, there's going to be an extraordinary police presence here in new york city this weekend. and it just sort of shows the ripple effect as you move out of boston. extraordinary what is happening, heartbreaking what is happening in that city. but the impact that it's happening on cities all along the east coast, all across this country. as investigators work rapidly and intensely to try to find out
find this one suspect and see if there are others who are helping them and cooperating. and as pete williams has explained, they're trying to track the cell phone records and the movements of these suspects. in the recent days and weeks to try to see who else they might have been in touch with. whether any of those people might pose a threat. >> thank you, jonathan dienst in new york. and lester holt still live in watertown, we should clarify it was the boston, massachusetts ems director who said that people who were at work could go home. so apparently they feel that the streets are safe enough for people to go home. not to be trapped at work endlessly while the manhunt continues. lester? >> can you repeat that? >> lester, i was just saying it was kurt schwartz, the director of the massachusetts emergency management agency who was briefly on camera here. we did not completely identify him, saying that employees in the boston area who are at work do not have to shelter there. they are encouraged to leave
work and drive home and stay at home. lester, the latest from your location? >> well the latest this was the first place that lockdown was imposed, because obviously this is where the chase ended and the gun fight and the explosions and where they likely think that the person we've been referring to as the guy in the white hat, the second suspect, is more likely or not to be. but as we've been noting, there may be accomplices, so that's why i think it's been spread to other parts of the metropolitan area. we don't see many folks about. a few folks have come to our camera location where they feel some sense of security. as you look up and down the streets, other than occasional person walking their dogs, they have heeded the warnings to stay inside during this search. it's, it's a case of us reading tea leaves to find out exactly where they stand in this search. we've see the s.w.a.t. teams work particular neighborhoods at times it looked like they've struck upon something. because they take that very serious posture. but then of course they have to
assume the worst as they go into any area with the their teams. and as they encounter individuals on the street, they have to deal with that issue, okay, is this person a suspect, a distraction? or what have you. the folks here have been warned, they've been thanked for their cooperation, but warned this could go on for some time. the investigation is moving on so many levels here. obviously the site of the shootout, securing the bombs, explosives that these guys had. and of course, the search for suspect number two, which is absorbing a lot of time and attention here. there are police departments from all over this region who have converged here all day long. since the wee hours of the morning. we've seen group after group of police officers coming in. boston loaded up a couple, two or three city buses i think with police officers and brought them here to watertown. the new hampshire state police brought their s.w.a.t. team in. we've seen all kinds of license plates as they get more and more help. and the rather sleepy small town
that is facing a really huge challenge right now. nothing less than hunting for a terrorist. andrea? >> thank you so much, lester holt. a with me still, is tom ridge, the former homeland security chief and as mr. secretary, i wanted to bring in james cavanaugh, an nbc news and msnbc analyst and a retired atf special agent in charge. mr. cavanaugh, tom ridge and i were talking earlier about the fact that one of the suspects, tamerlan, the older brother, when he was killed, had an ied on him. had some sort of a device strapped around him and that has to be a concern as well. with his younger brother, who is still at large. >> it's a federal event, andrea, in american law enforcement history, that last night, united states police killed a suicide bomber on american soil. and that point of fact, is sort of lost in the greater emergency. but last night, united states police killed a suicide bomber right here and there's another
potential and probable suicide bomber still unaccounted for in watertown. so it's really, remain as critical situation. and we know this is a hard fact. the guy had the ied strapped on him as the governor said. we know as a hard fact that suicide is a pillar, an adeal of al qaeda. we know it for a fact. it's a single-most important thing to be a member of al qaeda, was not whether you could speak a foreign language, have military training, it was not whether you -- were willing to travel or you could shoot a gun. it was were you willing to self-sacrifice. and it was said that bin laden could tell after talking to somebody for ten minutes, whether or not that person would be willing to self-sacrifice and swear allegiance to him. so having a suicide bomber is a huge development. mike isikoff mentioned it earlier on the top of the show and the governor has seen it as well and all of us in police and law enforcement and journalism see that as a very significant
event. and i think it is a very significant event. because monday we had two bombers. and here we are friday and we've got two suicide bombers. that's a big development. but get back to the scene there, earlier like kerry sanders said, we thought they might have had dzhokhar isolated in one structure. it appears that's probably not true. but from the press conference, they said they might have 60% of the critical area searched. so they may think he's in this few-block area. he could be hiding in a garage, you know, he could be in a basement crawl space, he could have forced his way into a structure. he's somewhere in there, they feel. and of course, it's very difficult because i mean any time they come upon him, as i mentioned the madrid case earlier, he could detonate a bomb and kill himself and try to take the agents or officers with him. some very, very critical situation. it's being handled as best as anybody could handle it. it's just going to take a little time ,cpñ find dzhokhar.
>> if you could stay with me for just a moment, mr. cavanaugh. i want to ask secretary ridge, governor ridge, to this point, the video that we saw, the surveillance video from the lord and taylor camera and other cameras were two very nonchalant young men walking by. it could have been a lot easier to be a suicide bomber at that point than to place the bombs and saunter off. there was a cold-blooded quality to that, but also survivalist quality but what james cavanaugh is just saying is that this has been transformed by the series of events and by the psychology of the perpetrators. >> i think that's right. one of the things that i think we all noticed as they walked through was their assimilation. hat on backward, backpack, given the cosmopolitan nature of boston, massachusetts, it could have been any graduate student, undergraduate student, high school student, we don't notice them. but obviously they were well prepared if in fact their home is trapped, he's go the an ied strapped to him. they engaged in a gun fight with law enforcement.
so their motives weren't simply, it doesn't seem like the motive was to cause death and destruction at that site. they had obviously no plans on leaving. maybe they panicked at the last minute. all of these facts will have to unravel, at another period of time. but their plan was to do far more than just bring the horror and terror to the boston marathon, it's quite obvious at this point. >> mr. cavanaugh, how important is it from a law enforcement perspective, i would think critical, to try to capture him alive? without that, we do not easily know whether there's a cell, whether he's alone, he and his brother were lone wolves. whether there's a foreign involvement or some other group in boston or elsewhere in the united states, giving them operational advice. >> exactly. best thing would be to capture him alive so he could be debriefed and tell us who else was helping him. and your point, andrea, was so important earlier about you know, they didn't suicide-bomb at the marathon. but think back to faizal shazad
in times square, he travelled to pakistan where the pakistanis trained him. he flooded the bomb, it didn't work, he left the keys in the car. but he was not trying to kill himself in the blast. he was not a suicide bomber either at the moment. but likely was pledged for the whole game. and i think what part of this may be is, it's hard for the pakistani taliban in that case and whatever al qaeda-affiliate y ed group could be in this case, could get operatives effectively into the united states. if they get them in, like shazad or these guys, if it expense out that way, don't kill yourself right away, launch a campaign. but before we launch you, we have to know that you're willing to self-sacrifice, in the path of allah as khalid sheikh mohammed said, was the most important factor.
so i think they would not want to kill themselves immediate i ly. governor ridge knows he set up the whole homeland security department. that may be the reason that handlers in chechnya were saying don't kill yourselves right away because it takes us years to get guys like you, but you have to always be willing to do it. that's how you're controlled. >> tom ridge, there are marathons planned for london. sporting events that have not yet been canceled in boston. clearly they're going to be canceled around the country. major events. we are preparing to be in this for quite a while if they do not capture this man. >> i think that's true. but i listened to an earlier report that said ray kelly identified, i guess they have two races in new york city. you know for sure that between mayor bloomberg and ray kelly and the extraordinary police department up there, they will ramp up security as high as they possibly can. there may be fewer runners, but
i dare say, we're pretty resilient. pretty tough. a lot of people are going to show up to send a message to the terrorists, we're pretty resilient. americans don't live in fear. and regardless of, of what others may think of us, we're going to continue to enjoy the opportunities we have to live in a very special place. but obviously it will be a lot more security at all of these venues, and i think there should be. i keep referring to an article that tom friedman wrote in "the new york times," para phraphras terrorists live in caves, americans don't. spectacular performance by the police department in the past 72 hours has to be commended. i'm quite sure there are three levels of investigation. try to find the individual, look through all the other information you have to see if he has any other supportive groups, assailants, anything more to suggest this was more than a two-man operation. and in the midst of all that -- why? are they operationally connected to a jihadist group?
are they ideologically connected to a jihadist group? time will tell. >> earlier, andrew kitzenberg, an eye witness to the shoot-out in watertown, talked to brian williams, let's listen. >> i went to the window, right outside of our apartment, there were two shooters in between a sedan and a black mercedes benz suv and they were in between these two cars, taking cover behind the black suv, shooting down our street, which is laurel street and they were shooting westward. towards what looked to be about six, six to ten watertown police department vehicles. and they were shooting about, what seemed to be 70 to 80 yards down the street. utilizing handguns. while they were engaging in gun fire, they were also using explosives. it looked to resemble a pressure cooker. what i've seen from other pictures online in the last few
days. i saw them light this bomb, they threw it towards the officers and it only got maybe 15 to 20 yards down. so it wasn't very close to the officers. but it really, it created a significant decoy and there was smoke that covered our entire street and at that point one of the shooters ran towards the officers. while still engaging in gunfire. and while he was still shooting at them, a few seconds later, the second shooter got back into the suv. and turned it around, and went full speed into the police officers. >> and we should note, that was andrew kitzenberg talking to brian williams earlier. he was an eye witness to the shoot-out. and we should note that there was one victim, sean collier, the m.i.t. patrol officer who was killed by them in the early hours. he was only 26 years old. sean collier, a campus police
officer, patrolling the m.i.t. campus, he was in his patrol car when he was killed. tom ridge, that is only another way to emphasize just why we had that terse comment about an hour and a half ago from governor deval patrick. we're getting new information, we're extending this lockdown. stay in your homes, this is dangerous. it's clear that they do not know where this suspect is, right now. they do not know if there is an accomplice, if there's a cell. how many more may or may not be involved. but until they do, they want everybody to be safe. >> he's prepared to do. i mean it's quite obvious, and death and destruction, the havoc that he's rendered over the past four days suggests to everybody involved, i know they would like to capture him. could potentially have all kinds of information, but even that process, once, if they identify him, even that simple, not simple, that process of trying to capture him alive, is complicated because they don't know, not only is he armed, but whether or not he has an
explosive device on his person. which means any close contact could be fatal to the officers that approach him. so everybody is taking the governor's advice in the enormous amount of caution appropriately taken by the entire community. >> and the governor, this is what he had to say. governor, t what he had to say. >> we've got either asset that we can possibly muster on the ground right now. we are doing a terrific job in working with concert in each other. we are going to need the public to help us help them stay safe. >> and the suspect is 19 years old. his name is tsarnaev. was described by classmates as a regular kid. a friend. a classmate. smart. good athlete. involved in extracurricular activities. we know he became a u.s. citizen on 9/11 last year. and that his brother did travel
for six months last year outside the u.s. governor ridge. >> you know, the promise and hope for all immigrants is evidenced by his uncle who passionately condemned the action of his nephews. there's part of the family that was assimilated. and you just don't know, and perhaps trying to rationalize the irrational. trying to think, what could get inside your head? you go from a war-torn area in russia, you're a chech yan. tla there's been tough military action. you flee that environment. you come into the united states. you go to school. you get a scholarship. you have friends. but somewhere in that leadened, deadened heart, head of yours, it's still not good enough. there is a cause that's more important, not survival, and i'm
not sure we'll ever be able to comprehend that. we need to try because it may give us potential to identify other people. here we have a rather remarkable journey these two young men took. a journey literally millions have taken. and they've contributed to the united states. their contribution was death and destruction. of innocent people. we may never understand, rationalize, how. >> as you reference the uncle who pleaded with his nephew, dzhokhar, give yourself up, give yourself up. and of course that is the fervent wish of law enforcement officials for a number of reasons. one is for the survival of dzhokhar tsarnaev because there is a manhunt for him and he will not escape that network of law enforcement at some point. this will not come to a good end. but also from a law enforcement perspective, we need to know who else is out there.
he clearly had his brother as an accomplice but was there someone else involved. is this a cell? is it a local cell, home grown? is it foreign operated? is there an al qaeda or other splinter group connection? what did his brother do when he went back to russia, at least to russia? we know he arrived at an airport outside moscow. don't know where he went after that. his father is still -- returned to russia and was angry when called -- angry and grieving when called by reporters today, russian reporters, because -- had no knowledge of what his sons were doing, but was angry and thinking they had been hunted down as targets of some sort of conspiracy because he simply is not aware of any of these facts. we know president vladimir putin has been in touch with the u.s., has issued a message of condolence to president obama. there's been a national security meeting. the white house says previously scheduled. but there was a gathering of all the top officials around 11:15
this morning. our google hangout plus with secretary kerry was postponed at the last minute today for obvious reasons. secretary kerry is leaving for istanbul for a meeting with president erdogan as he continues with his mission to try to sort out policy and the way forward, in syria, and then going to a nato meeting in brussels. there's a lot of balls in the air right now but principally we have a law enforcement challenge on our hands and it is being from all accounts, it is being handled brilliantly by massachusetts, boston and local, state and local police, all coordinating through governor patrick and other law enforcement officials the massachusetts emergency management team, the federal authorities, and all of course reporting to and coordinated by the fbi. this is the system that was put
in place after the worst tragedy america endured, 9/11. after that, we had hearings, we had investigations, the creation of homeland security. to a lot of subsequent criticism. we gave up a lot of our rights, a lot of privacy. we had overhead surveillance of which we are not even aware. there have been legally sanctioned, court-ordered intercepts of domestic transmissions inside the united states, if we are told they involve. good and bad in the last decade and more since 9/11. but this is what we are down to. a manhunt for a 19-year-old suspect of foreign birth, now a u.s. citizen, having come here with his family for political asylum in the early 2,000s, 2002, 2003. his father having now returned to russian. his uncle outraged. by what has happened with his
nephews. we have an older brother who is dead. two boys who were raised in an all-american public school in cambridge, massachusetts. whose classmates say they were the best kids. they were wrestlers. they won a scholarship. what we know is this has come unglued in the most horrific way. kerry sanders is in water come town. kerry. >> well, the scene here has certainly changed. really, a neighborhood is coming back after being besieged by so much activity. residents who left appear to be able to come home to their homes. those who have been inside their houses, just based on the way i see the police force pulling back, certainly can come out of their homes. it's been a heck of an ordeal, looking out the windows, seeing officers, some of them in fatigues and military-style
helmets and just either which way of a type of weapon in their hands. hearing the explosions and the gunfire. in some cases, right outside the window of their homes. and now having to deal with the disappointment that i think much of the nation is dealing with. and that is the second suspect is not in custody, not yet. and that there is a threat that is still out there. andrea. >> and, kerry, just to reprise, also, earlier today, john kernan spoke with msnbc. he is the bostxing coach. he described him as a nice guy. quite a guy. spoke three languages. an accomplished piano player. his brother wouldn't do the exercises for boxing. john lost track of the tsarnaev brothers in 2010. so we have a manhunt, a massive manhunt -- kerry, yes?
>> i think we all want to know the answer. i mean, you talk about how he was described. we all want to know the answer as to why. i think when we hear it, we still won't understand it. i mean, it -- it's just too confusing. so i don't know whether we will ever get the answer. i don't thing anybody will ever be satisfied with the answer as to why. but, you know, immediately, right now, there is -- there is a threat that's still out there. >> indeed there is. kerry sanders. thank you so much for your reporting. just to complete these thoughts, tom ridge, and our thanks to you for your wisdom and experience throughout this hour. as the first homeland security secretary, you put the sashg texture in place. it has been criticized. it has been tweaked along the way. you were derided for the color codes which have now been abandoned. we now see how a community needs to mobilize when there is a suspect at loose. and there have been terror attacks on a u.s. city.
>> when i was given the opportunity to set up that new agency, we both understand one basic principle. at the end of the day, you can only maximize your ability to keep your community safe and secure if you integrate everybody's capabilities. the federal, the state and the local. it may be a federal agency. it's a national mission. there's been no positive reinforcement of that. surrounding this tragedy. but how the communities work together, the collaboration, i dare say, i suspect a lot of the response and the capabilities and the equipment has a lot to do with the training, the exercises, the equipment, the dollars that were sent to boston, and 11 years later, we are still not immune from the attacks, but we've proven to be a far more resilient and far better prepared to deal with them than we were before 9/11. >> tom ridge, as the first homeland security secretary, i don't think you ever thought you would witness this
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