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tv   Politics Nation  MSNBC  April 19, 2013 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT

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else. i fear for those out there. he's heavily armed and desperate. we've got worse coming probably. thank you, roger cressey. we'll be right back an hour from now with another edition of "hardball." "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right away. >> thanks, chris. breaking news, we're waiting on a press briefing from officials on a manhunt for the suspect in the marathon bombings. as night falls in boston, much of the city is in lockdown. nearly one million residents are in their homes. after the governor urged residents to stay indoors with their doors locked. this comes as a massive door to door search is under way for the survival suspect in the boston marathon bombings. the 19-year-old who wore a white baseball cap at the marathon, police, fbi agents, and s.w.a.t.
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team officers are combing the suburb of watertown where the surviving suspect is believed to be hiding. that's where he and his older brother ended up earlier this morning after they killed an m.i.t. campus policeman. the older brother, the one in the dark hat, was killed in an intense shootout there that left a boston transit officer seriously injured. [ gunfire ] >> authorities say the surviving suspect may be armed with explosives or even a suicide vest. he may also be injured. some reports say police tracked him during the manhunt by his blood trail. his uncle spoke out today. >> i say dzhokhar, if you're alive, turn yourself in and ask
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for forgiveness from the victims, from the injured, and from those who left. as forgiveness from these people. >> police found today at least seven homemade bombs in watertown and cambridge. authorities are now trying to figure out if the older brother had terror training during a trip overseas last year. meanwhile, president obama has summoned his entire national security team to the white house and is tracking developments from the situation room. as we wait for this press conference, let's go live to nbc's michael isikoff reporting from the scene in watertown where he's been all day. michael, what's the status of the manhunt now and what can you tell us about these homemade bombs that have been recovered? >> reporter: well first of all, we expect to get the briefing of
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the status any moment now and there are indications that at least some of the information that was given out by police earlier today about the timeline events is going to be revised and we're going to be learning that there may have been some inaccurate information, at least about the origins of this. but we're waiting to hear that and we'll get -- we should get confirmation shortly. but what we have been told -- >> we're seeing some people getting out of the cars now, michael. so we may be near the press conference time. but go ahead. >> right. right. right. but in addition to those seven ieds, there have been additional bombs, pressure cookers, pipe bombs that were recovered in watertown and we're about to learn hopefully a bit more. >> i just saw governor deval patrick. he was one of those got out of
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the vehicle. there are vehicles that pulled up and i see we're seeing it there approaching. so let me ask you this, michael, as we await the press conference to line up. is there a concern about nightfall is upon us and does that make the manhunt more difficult for law enforcement and more dangerous for them and citizens? >> reporter: sure. absolutely. and add on top of that, if they don't capture him tonight, what happens tomorrow? what happens this weekend? how long can they expect bo bostonians to remain in their homes? and that's a very difficult question. on the other hand, if they can account for all ieds that might be out there, they are not going to be able to -- >> i'm going to have to hold you right there, michael mayor
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menino is there and i believe we're going to start the press conference. let's listen in. >> good evening, everybody. and thank you, all of you, for your patience and to all of the viewers and listeners in the area who have also been very patient. i'm going to have colonel alben give a quick update on what we can say about the ongoing investigation. i'll have a couple of comments then about the stay indoors request and the "t" and then we will turn it over to the mayor and then to chief devoe from watertown here. first to colonel alben. >> thank you, governor. good afternoon. i certainly want to thank all of you for your patience. i know you are all tired. we certainly are as well. but we remain committed to this. we do not have an apprehension of our suspect this afternoon. but we will have one.
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we're committed to that. i want the neighborhood here in watertown to know that we went through about 20 streets here, door to door with our tactical teams. we knocked on doors to ensure that everyone was safe in their homes and that they saw the police on their streets. we did limited searches of those homes to render them safe. we've also followed a number of leads this afternoon that have taken us in various places in eastern massachusetts and none of those leads have been fruitful to this point. there's much left to be done, including ballistics and forensic work that will be concluding in boston in the next few days. we also have a scene up here, forensic scene where we had some exploded and unexploded ordinance there that were made safe and removed during the course of the afternoon. that is still ongoing but should be completed shortly.
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we are going to drawback our tactical teams but the state police will be providing additional patrols to the town of watertown over the next two to three days for the neighbors and the citizens in this community, we're going to have for the chief an additional ten state police patrols augmenting the watertown police in those neighborhoods, three shifts a day, probably through monday. so again, i want to emphasize, this is a complicated investigation that's being led by the fbi. our presence here today was about the safety of the people in the community. we're confident we did that to the best of our ability. unfortunately, we don't have a positive result at this point. but for the sake of everyone that were hurt or killed during the marathon or those police
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officers that lost their life or were seriously injured, we are committed to seeing a conclusion to this case. thank you. >> thank you, colonel. in light of the status of the investigation here in watertown and the developments in the course of the day, the stay indoors request is lifted. the "t" is opened effectively immediately. we are asking the public to remain vigilant. if you were out, continue to be alert to suspicious activity and backpacks and remember there is still a very, very dangerous individual at large but we feel confident, based on what we know about the status of the investigation right now, that to that extent we can return to living our lives. we begin in the areas where the
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stay indoors request has been in effect. that request is lifted but remain vigilant. mr. mayor? >> let me just say to the public out there, thank you for your cooperation. in the last several hours. stand by. it was very helpful to us as they went to work on this investigation. yes, we do not have an individual arrested yet and brought to justice but we have a lot of leads out there. i'll ask the public to continue to cooperate with us. boston will stand tall and never stand down. thank you for your cooperation. thank you for the business community for working with us for the last several hours for closing their business. the economic loss for them but together we'll get through this crisis. thank you. >> thank you. again, my message is to the community of watertown. it's a little different what
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queer going to do here. you're going to see saturated patrol. local communities are going to support us. we've done a block of the interior and unfortunately as you know we didn't have any results but we're going to continue to move forward as a community. i can't thank the watertown community for what you have done but we need it to continue. as you heard, the crime scene is not done yet. that's not going to be collapsed for another few hours at least. we need your support there and please go about your business. i know there's a lot of events in watertown tomorrow and we're going to have them but you're going to see a big police presence as we do that. thank you and please say a prayer for those police officers. thank you. >> one more point. i just want to add, there's a photograph of our subject that's been widely distributed.
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i want to remind the public that it's there. if you see this individual, please, do not take action on your own. we want to you dial 911 to your local police department and anything that you might know about this individual, please send that to the fbi tip line. this is very, very important. i appealed to the community for your cooperation and we need your continuing cooperation to solve this. thank you. [ inaudible question ] >> i think that goes to the investigation and i'll talk about anything that relates to the investigation today. >> any second thoughts or decisions that have been made since the bombing? >> no. we have -- we're committed to this since 11:30 or 11:00 last night. we have worked through since that time and we have had people
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tirelessly walking those streets going door to door up there. unfortunately, we did not have enough people when those shootings took place in order to deal with the first aid issues that were prominent and establish a perimeter at that point in time. go ahead. >> do you know where the suspect is or do you believe you know where the suspect is tonight and how can you reconcile an armed and dangerous individual? >> well, i don't think, first of all, that the instruction lends itself to, you know, simple phrases. right? we are where we were effectively on -- as of monday night or tuesday morning. with a couple of exceptions. one of the suspects is dead, some 200 rounds and explosives.
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and we justify, based on what we believe and understand about the investigation, in taking what we knew as a big step and asking people to stay indoors while we went house to house here and in other communities close by to which we believed the suspect or law enforcement believe the suspect could have fled. the investigation has continued to develop. we can't give you all the reasons for those developments right now. we will, in the fullness of time, we can right now. but based on those developments we feel it is prudent to be able to say to people you can get back out as long as you are vigilant. >> what departments are helping you? the state police or -- >> this has been an ongoing effort of the joint terrorism task force. it was from the onset and will continue to be that. so you have the fbi, state police and all of the local police departments, including
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the boston police department. go ahead. >> do you believe the suspect is still in the boston area or has he fled? >> i think i would be -- no, i don't have any direct knowledge that he's here in the boston area but we don't think he would get much further. his ties seem to be here. >> how and when did you know that they were the bombing suspects? >> well, i think this developed rather quickly last night and i would wager that most of the activity that was printed in the media yesterday forced them to make decisions or take actions that ultimately revealed who they were. >> the armed robbery that happened? >> yeah, i want to be clear about the armed robbery. these folks do not appear to be the individuals involved in the armed robbery. they were at the 7-eleven in
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cambridge at a time that was somewhat coincidental to that and we retrieved a surveillance video out of the 7-eleven but they were not involved in an armed robbery of that convenience store. >> do you believe the suspects are still in massachusetts and can you comment a little bit about your interaction with that? >> i don't want to comment on that because that's a homicide investigation but all of this individual's ties were here in massachusetts and we believe that's the only person we're looking for at this time. >> do you believe he's still in massachusetts? >> yes, i believe he's still in massachusetts. >> and bringing extra troopers into watertown for the weekend -- >> the whole point in providing that extra coverage to watertown is for the benefit of this community. we've had this whole community -- in fact, the greater boston area, as you know, shut down today. but in particular, these folks had a shooting in their neighborhood last night.
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there was a loss of life. it was a very violent activity. so to provide that level of comfort, we're providing or supplementing the watertown police department. >> do you think someone is helping him? >> that would be a supposition on my part and i'm not going to do that. >> is there a mercedes someone should be looking for? >> i'm not aware of a mercedes anyone should be looking for. >> what do you know about what the suspect's intention might have been? >> it's clear to us that there were explosives that they had with them last night. they threw those at the police officers that were pursing them. beyond that, what their intentions were would be a
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matter of supposition and i'm not going to do that. >> what can you tell us about the car that you found? >> which car? >> the one with the blown-out window in it, the one that you had been looking for. >> that was the vehicle prior to the carjack. >> you're talking about the honda? that car is being processed at this point but it's relevance is still not known. >> are you fearful of vigilantes? is. >> it's not something that i've considered. i'm worried about apprehending this particular subject. he's a very violent and dangerous person. that's our primary concern. >> are you operating under the assumption of a vehicle that he has? >> we don't know of a vehicle
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that he has. >> what has changed in the last eight hours to where the public -- you think the public should feel safe to go out with the suspect still on the loose and what is your message to that suspect? >> my message to the suspect is to give himself up, to stop any further violence towards anyone. in terms of where he is at this point, we cannot continue to lock down an entire city or an entire state. we are confident that we've done what we can do here in this particular neighborhood in terms of our search and unfortunately that was not fruitful but we are redoubling our efforts and committed as this morning to apprehend him. >> have you found out anything new? >> no. >> are you concerned about giving watertown an all clear? >> i would never give an all clear on anything. i want to reemphasize that this is a dangerous person who we believe has killed people. they need to be extremely
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careful and contact their local police department if they even suspect they identified him. >> are you concerning of the arsenal bomb making material? >> we've done a number of searches this afternoon but again it's going to go to the investigation and i don't want to comment on that. >> there's a lot of questions about why. >> well, i think that would always be law enforcement's preference but sometimes those are decisions that they take away from us and we hope that's not the case here and that's why i'm appealing to him to give himself up. >> do you think that they were together at some point and then separated? >> they were together last night. one of them was killed and one of them fled the scene. >> how did he do that exactly? >> on foot this is a homicide case that we're talking about and i don't want to discuss the evidence in this te case. >> colonel, can you tell us
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about whether that's true? >> i think that's going to go to the investigation and i don't want to comment on that. >> should i feel safe to let my kids out of the house? >> i think you should be reassured by the enhanced presence of the state police in the watertown police department being here in your neighborhood and we are convinced that we did absolutely everything that we could in this neighborhood to ensure that this individual is not where he left last night. >> last question, colonel. >> last question. >> how did he get away? >> how did he get away? and do you have a sense of where he is? >> he abandoned a car that he used in a pursuit from cambridge here to watertown last night. in terms of how he got away, he did it on foot. he fled on foot. i don't know where he went specifically after that. >> so he abandoned the car and
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ran? >> that's it. >> we're covering old ground. >> that was massachusetts police superintendent timothy alben. he says he thinks the suspect is still in massachusetts and he says the suspect is, quote, violent and dangerous. a violent and dangerous person and he appealed to the suspect to give himself up. to talk about it with us now is james cavanaugh, atf former special agent, don, former agent in charge of the field houston office and clint van zandt. james, what stood out to you on the press conference just now? >> we got a lot of information from the superintendent there. we know that he fled on foot and so that tells us a lot of things. we know he was in a shootout just prior to that and from an
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eyewitness that msnbc had on today, we know he had a handgun. we don't know of a reported rifle that we saw or we have any information, only a pistol. so he drives through the police cordoned and he has a handgun, we believe he does. but he's not carrying full of bombs. he could have a suicide vest on. that could be the worst case scenario. the bad part is, he knows how to carjack a car and i've had people in this situation before, fugitives running from us when we're in hot pursuit, they have a gun and that's exactly what they do because they have done it before. so a guy carjacked a car before, he carjacks another car. so if people turn up missing and haven't come home or something, that would be something to pay attention to. also, he's 19 years old.
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no matter how great of a terrorist he thinks he is, he's on the run and clint will tell you, don clark will tell you, they try to get to a relative's house. this guy is maybe not watching the news if he's running through the yards. he may not see his uncle on television. he may be trying to make his way down to washington, d.c., maybe to new jersey. he could be wounded in a garage or sleeping in the back seat of a car at the junkyard because he's familiar with the area. there's a lot of possibilities. >> don, it is getting dark. this has been since the very early morning hours. obviously people have got to be concerned as they come into the night hours. does this get more dangerous for police and citizens and what happens now as they continue their search in the dark and they haven't been able to find anything with daylight? >> well, you know, that's a good
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point. i'm glad you brought that up because this is a 24-hour operation from now on until the government, we find this person and take him to justice as they should be. and so what we've got to do is figure out and come to plans as to how we are going to address this during the evening hours. you know, we know what type of weapons that this individual may have, if he has any, or what he has gotten but nonetheless, we have to figure out the way that he may be able to get out of the area of boston and try to put stops to those areas. you know, in reality, we have to watch close. i don't think that the law enforcement people are going to say, oh yell, he may be moving out of this area to some place. most and oftentimes when you find people in this type of situation, they usually try to get to a place that they feel very comfortable in and my guess
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would be is that i would not be surprised if that this individual may not have a particular location that he feels may be the most secure for him. >> now, clint, the problem is that they are in watertown, the police, because that is where they ended up driving. there was no plan if we were to believe the scenario as it's been given to us. so we would assume that he would not have a safe place in watertown. so therefore, he would either have to by foot that we feel he was more familiar or as stated by james, carjack somebody. >> well, you know, as we talked yesterday and today, his brother took a lot of hits, took a lot of rounds when he went down. of course, he had a bomb vest on and he charged law enforcement and they stopped him in his
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tracks. but you know, it's logical to think that this 19-year-old may have been hit, too. so i agree with jim, he could have crawled under some place and laying there bleeding out. he could be holding a gun to someone's head and they wouldn't have answered the door. there's a lot of scenarios. the best case scenario is that we would have found him holed up someplace in that 20-block area. realize, not only did they have s.w.a.t. agents, everybody else, bomb dogs out there, they had search dogs out there, they had a lot of resources and this guy, 19 years old, on the run and in an environment he doesn't know with just the shoes on his feet maybe has been able to elude. now, that's probably very lucky on his part but law enforcement sitting there right now with
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their fingers crossed hoping he's still in the area because they may not know where to look next, al. >> that's my point, james. lucky for him maybe. hopefully he doesn't have that luck. but scary for others. i mean, i'm an early riser. i wake up early this morning, 5:00 a.m., in the middle of the night both of them have been caught, one's dead, the other's at large, there's no way i would believe that at nightfall the next day he would still be at large. what could be the possible scenarios? i hear when clint or don say that he is maybe somewhere and came home from work but they were on lockdown. people didn't go to work. so what could be a scenario to comfort me if i'm a citizen in watertown? >> that's right, reverend al. i don't think we can give you total comfort. the superintendent laid out the reason it happened.
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he was clear, they had a tremendous shootout, 200 rounds exchanged, bombs being thrown out, one officer dead, one wounded. i mean, this is an unbelievable situation. the police response is taken up mostly by responding to that event. he slips to cordoned and slips away on foot. he told us straight up and that's what we want -- he told us straight up what happened. now, when life goes back -- it's not going to be normal but it's going to be a lot more normal. there are going to be people on the streets and driving their cars and there's probably some neighborhood of boston that get beat up himself and throw him in the police car. what capabilities does he have with him? he may be wounded, like clint discussed, he may have a handgun, he may not have a suicide vest on like his brother. his brother might have been more determined. he may be a 19-year-old guy with
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a handgun on the street and every city in america, 19-year-old guys with handguns that will shoot people and he's been reduced from worldwide terrorist if he does have a suicide vest, to just that scenario and he's going to get caught because he's going to trip up. somebody is going to see him or he's going to carjack somebody or he's going to bleed out. i'm still not convinced that he did take a leg or arm wound and he's been pleading all day and you'll get weak and pass out and crawl in the bushes and you know what, like you said reverend al, i didn't go to work. i didn't walk by my bushes but now when i walk out i see a guy laying there. just by letting the population out, a semblance of normally, he may be discovered by that, too. >> what is the difference from nightfall to the daytime? how does the strategy for searching change, if at all?
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>> well, obviously the huge difference of day and night. i'm not sure that nightfall puts law enforcement at a significant disadvantage. yes, there are all kinds of tools that help you aid in that direction. >> let's go to you, clint. i think i lost don for a minute. clint, can you pick up there? what changes now in terms of the law enforcement strategy for searching in the night hours? >> well, we've got something that the fugitive doesn't have, which is a night vision capability, al. so we're still going to have law enforcement on a heavy patrol. but he can use to cover his nightfall. he can slip and slide from house to house but we're going to have tactical teams out there with a night vision ability.
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we don't want to confront this guy in the night. we don't want him to have the advantage whatsoever. so law enforcement will keep a very night perimeter around the area where they think he is. they will still be looking at cars that go in and out and then tomorrow come daylight they are probably going to pick it up and do additional patrols in there. but al -- >> you know, clint van zandt and james clark and -- don clark and james cavanaugh, stand by. we'll bring you back later in the show. just who are the suspects? we're learning much more about them on this extraordinary night. keep it right here on msnbc. both tylenol and bayer advanced aspirin
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who are these suspects and what could have happened to them that made their lives take such a drastic turn? the two arrive with their family here around 2002 to seek refuge from the war in chechnya. the older brother was an accomplished boxer and studied
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for three years at a community college and dropped out drawn to religious matters. the younger brother was a student at the university of massachusetts, dartmouth. he was an all-star wrestler in high school. and by all accounts of people who knew him, the last person you'd expect to carry out such a horrific attack. so -- >> i woke up and looked at the news and the first thought that came to my mind when i saw the picture was, that's dzhokhar. and then i thought, well, maybe this is just you being crazy. he's innocent and went to your high school. he's not capable of this. >> dzhokhar was full of potential and never showed any signs of doing this. >> he was passionate. he was a sweetheart of a kid. >> dzhokhar and i were very good friends. he was hilarious. he was very kind. he often had a smile on his face. >> as i think now, i'm still in
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shock. i can't accept it. but i'm going to have to. >> so what happened? joining me now is rebecca who attended high school with the suspect in the white hat, dzhokhar. rebecca, thank you for coming on the show tonight. >> no problem. >> you know this young man dzhokhar. what can you tell us about him? >> i did. i didn't know him very well. i had one class with him my senior year. i wish i could really tell you something informative but i can really only echo the sentiments expressed by my classmates just now that he was very friendly, very lighthearted, maybe a little shy but i didn't know him well but maybe if i had gotten to know him better and had more classes with him, i wouldn't think that. >> the class that you had with him, was there anything unusual, anything that struck you as something that was discomforting
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about him? >> there really wasn't. not at all. he seemed very much at ease and open to other people and i think that whatever happened that made him do this, it either happened after high school or it was not something that was going on in the classroom or that was affecting his behavior there, because he was a very, very nice person. >> he went to the trolly. he was very much the part of the community. and very much a friendly and --
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>> rebecca, thank you so much for your time tonight. let's bring back james cavanaugh, don clark special agent from houston. don, you heard rebecca. he was friendly and became a citizen last september 11th. what would make someone go through all of the pain of being a citizen and then do this. is that something that the fbi would look into? >> i think they are going to look at where this person came from, what his motives might be. just because someone was going to class every day and doing all the right things, you never know what the connection may be. i mean, there could be some connection outside of the united states that may have some
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connection to an individual that's going to -- that ends up doing something such as this. so just because an individual comes and seems to fit in and seems to be a nice person as what we are prone to say, oh, that person was such a nice person and so on and so forth, that may be good in that particular situation but we don't know what the ulterior motive was of that individual and what's they've got to do and what i'm hearing and suspecting right now from the government and all of the entities that are involved in that is that they really are trying to search and see, is this an individual who was doing something on behalf of some other system out there, some other entity as part of it. we've got to do all of those kinds of things to really put it together to see why did this guy go through with this type of activity?
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>> now, james, one of the trains of thoughts that we're hearing today -- and of course, all of this is brand new and we're doing it as we go along. one of the theories is that he was under the influence of his brother who seemed to be a little different in terms of his profile who just made this trip no one know what is it was about to russia. if he was under the influence of his brother, if he did follow his brother as one described him, the fact that his brother's no longer there, does that help law enforcement? because now he's on his own if in fact he was taking all of his influence and orders from his brother. >> yes, reverend al, i agree. that helps law enforcement. if he can be encountered and talked to, he might be able to negotiate through a peaceful surrender. the older brother might have been -- we already know he had a suicide vest on and he charged the police. so look, this is not a common
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occurrence in america. a guy with a suicide bomb on charged the police. it's extremely unusual. so -- i mean, that's very different. so we know that he's alone now. we also know that when he came to the united states he was 8 years old. his family was seeking asylum. he didn't come here as some sort of radical -- he was 8 years old. >> he was on the wrestling team. >> wrestling team. right. you just interviewed his classmates. what a great interview. this guy was later radicalized and his brother probably played a key role in doing it and some on the internet and maybe some other influences, both here and abroad. and i think that the terrorism analysts, the experts on that, like roger cressey, those kind of guys will be digging in that so deep, they will know everything this guy did since he was 12 years old. they will figure out what happened and that is a big
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important piece of the puzzle going forward. >> james cavanaugh, don clark, thank you for being here. stand by. we'll be right back. welcome to the new new york state, where cutting taxes for families and businesses is our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit it's healthier, ammonia-free. and with aloe, vitamin e, and coconut oil, my hair looks healthier than before i colored. i switched.
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very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. using night-vision goggles to keep an eye on my spicy buffalo wheat thins. who's gonna take your wheat thins? i don't know. an intruder, the dog, bigfoot. could you get the light? [ loud crash ] what is going on?! honey, i was close! it's a yeti! [ male announcer ] must! have! wheat thins! at this hour, a manhunt continues in the boston area. this suspect's still at large
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and a big question is how does he and his brother who are living in america since around 2002 become radicalized in the first place? how does home-grown terror happen? joining me now is evan coleman and roger cressey. roger, they lived in the united states for ten years. we've seen similar stories of radicalization. how does it happen? >> they didn't come here already r radicalized. we don't know if it was external sources, personal struggles, family issues, they are perceived as religious or ethnic duty. these are all possibilities right now. but we've seen in the past, be it with the faisals of the
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world, he was a citizen. he came from pakistan. he was radicalized because of the u.s. war against al qaeda and effects on that and the tribal region where some of his family was from. he was trained by pakistani taliban and came to the united states to try to attack the times square. that's a classic situation where we thought someone who was folded into the fabric of american society but ultimately became radicalized for political reasons. we don't know if that's the case for the tsarnaev brothers. >> that was going to be my question. we don't know if they were radicalized. there's no statement or manifesto here. >> right. >> but what we do know is that in january 2012, the older brother flew from new york to moscow. six months later he returned to the u.s. from russia. that was in july 2012. then, a month later in august, it appears he set up a youtube
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account that had videos related to islamic fundamentalism and a playlist labeled "terrorists." the videos have been removed from that playlist. so that appears to have a meaning. again, there's no manifesto, there's no statement here. but the youtube and the trip are the things that are making law enforcement question whether there was radicalization here. >> that's right, reverend. the government right now, the counterterrorism community is connecting the dots. you have identified several dots that are going to be connected. we don't know if this is a linear process and leads to an obvious conclusion based on what we have seen so far or if there are external or internal factors that force or push for these individuals to become mass murderers because what they did was try to kill and maim innocence and at the same time put in place an arsenal of weapons and ieds where they were
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going to do follow on attacks. there's so many questions involved right now and unfortunately we have very few answers. >> evan, have you started to build a profile in your mind? >> well, look, you have his former classmates say that he was a normal kid, he was a happy kid. that's not unusual at all. there's an american right now being sought by the fbi in somalia. he was one of the most prominent home-grown extremists. he was the prom king. he dated the prettiest girl in high school. he was popular with the jocks, popular with the nerds. all of a sudden he needed to find something in his life. he was missing something. and he found it in radical islam or radicalism in general. and i think that's what unites a
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lot of these guys, is that they are missing something. they are searching for meaning in their lives and they find it in these radical causes and you have to be careful about attributing poverty or hopelessness. some of these guys just find this incredibly interesting. they find it incredibly attractive and we see very unusual people being drawn in to this. we see people like pittsburgh pennsylvania, a former neo-nazi who converted on the internet from being a neo-nazi to a jihadist and eventually was chatting with people online who were getting missiles fired at them in pakistan. you have g.i. jane, a woman from pennsylvania, an interesting coincidence, who shows up and wants to kill the sweedish cartoonist. >> but how could the younger brother, wrestler, want d to be an american citizen, how could he turn in to this -- if in fact
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he did, we don't know -- but how does this happen? >> you'd be surprised how easily it happens. when someone feels a source of social alienation, they reach out. you see that in gangs and terrorist organizations. it's not entirely unusual to see members of the family participating. brothers. it's not too hard to figure out that brothers have an influence on eacher other. the older brother had an influence on the younger. it's very sad. these kids often show a lot of promise. they are not stupid. they are university students. they have promising lives ahead of them and yet they sacrifice all of this for these crazy avatars that are built mostly online and it's a radical or
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extremist and all of a sudden that becomes more attractive to them than their real life and they adopt this as being their real life existence when really they are diluted kids. the problem is that there are actual organizations out there looking for people like this and are being looking to manipulate these people and recruit them and turn them into human bombs. that's the saddest part, that there are people xeniccynical i have to do that. >> roger, could it be his brother operating alone and using his influence on his younger brother and they are not connected to any organization or any movement, just a brother who is just crazed or was crazed and influences younger brother? >> it's entirely possible, based on what little we know right now. and the other thing that is worth keeping in mind, as we see all the interviews from friends, from classmates, we see that
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these two individuals were well assimilated into u.s. society, being successful in different ways. but there is something that was missing and to evan's point, clearly the type of thing where people can be preyed upon and then radicalized if in fact that was the case. there was disenfranchisement here. there could have been familial struggles that combine together because of the type of the attack that they did was just so heinous that you have to believe there was something bigger at work here. >> rt will. we'll see. evan coleman and roger cressey, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you, reverend. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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let's go to nbc's erica hill who is now in watertown, massachusetts. erica, we understand there is some commotion going on? >> reporter: definitely a little
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bit of commotion. what we saw -- you can hear it behind me, they are getting people to clear the roads so that more vehicles can come through. we saw three s.w.a.t. vehicles off to my right shoulder. for some period of time right after we finished that press conference. they just pealed out of here. the number of officers went down, increased traffic as you can see now. and as a number of cars and some police officers made their way down this street. you also hear people cheering because as we heard in this press conference, they had lifted that order and some of them probably just to walk their dogs and we saw a couple of dogs but groups of people on the street and again as these police officers and these vehicles made their way quickly, sirens and lights going, people are cheering, yay, go get them. >> we want you to stay safe but
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we saw armored vehicles, military vehicles moving and we understand again shots were heard? >> as i understand it, we did not hear them at our location but possibly at another location in watertown those shots were heard. >> we don't know yet what that might have been and whether it was connected to the pursuit of the missing bomber? >> reporter: we want to avoid doing that and wait until any and all information is confirmed but again what we can confirm here, as you refer to it, the commotion happening behind us, i can hear a car alarm going off and a number of vehicles coming in and out very existly, lights on, sirens on, police officers moving down and they were coming this time with purpose. we had seen a large police presence here all day as


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