tv Up W Steve Kornacki MSNBC April 20, 2013 5:00am-7:00am PDT
coming up on 8:00 east coast time, good morning from new york, i'm chris jansing. that 19-year-old boston marathon suspect captured last night is now at beth israel deaconess medical center in boston suffering from a gunshot wound and blood loss, officials expect to question him the moment his condition improves. dzhokhar tsarnaev was captured last night in watertown after a local resident discovered him hiding in a boat in his backyard. almost an unbelievable scenario. went out to have a cigarette, next thing you know he sees some blood. he sees that a tarp was cut. that was after that enormous manhunt paralyzed the city and turned the region into a virtual military zone. tsarnaev along with his 26-year-old brother, tamerlan, who died early friday in their standoff with police, is accused of planting bombs at the finish line of the boston marathon monday. three people, of course, were killed. scores more wounded.
many of them still hospitalized. and also later they shot and killed police say a 26-year-old m.i.t. police officer, sean collier. the fbi's hostage rescue team pulled tsarnaev from his hiding spot last night after tossing flash bang grenades, after which she was tre he was treated on the scene. as he was taken away, waves of jubilation and relief rolled through the streets of watertown. residents who had been under lockdown for most of the day cheered as the ambulance rolled past marking an end to the manhunt. >> yay. >> thank you! >> whoo! >> a lot of appreciation for the work the cops and other investigators did there. at the white house last night, after the capture, president obama applauded law enforcement officials, but said there's more work to do in the coming investigation.
>> obviously tonight there's still many unanswered questions. among them -- why did young men who grew up and studied here as part of our communities and our country resort to such violence? how did they plan and carry out these attacks, and did they receive any help. the families of those killed so senselessly deserve answers. the wounded, some of whom now have to learn how to stand and walk and live again deserve answers. >> so many questions at this point, including what was he doing in those 20 hours or so, and what do we know about how it came to this point. ron allen is at the hospital where the 19-year-old suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev is right now. and, of course, obviously the police, the investigators, want to talk to him. what do we know about his condition, ron? >> reporter: well, chris, we believe he is in serious condition. we know he suffered a lot of
loss of blood during this ordeal. we know that he was on the run for 20 hours. we don't know exactly at what point he was wounded. we know that authorities do want to talk to him. he arrived here late last night under heavy guard. there now is a much smaller police presence here. the emergency room is actually at the back of the building where he came in, and there was a heavier police presence back there last night. just an incredible evening. we don't know a lot about what led him to do this. but we are led to believe that his brother was the stronger influence and a strong influence in his life. we spent the day in cambridge yesterday in the neighborhood where the family lived, a modest home, a typical street, a very diverse community. we know that the younger brother attended a very well-known boston high school, boston ridge in latin. we know he was a student at the campus at umass at dartmouth. we know he was studying marine biology, he's been described as
a studious person, an introvert, and his brother an extrovert, a boxer. his condition here, the hospital is not releasing details. they are saying the fbi will provide that when they feel it's appropriate. of course, a very sensitive and delicate matter for now. >> one -- >> reporter: chris? >> one of the unbelieve things, maybe not unbelievable, that i read, a couple things, one of them, friends of his when they saw the surveillance photos thought, oh, that could be him, but it's such a great guy, it couldn't be him. it never even occurred to them. and people who have been interviewed by various newspaper reporters who went to school with him, who were friend of his, who said if it came to a trial, they would be willing to testify on his behalf. ron, the story we're hearing about who he was and what he's accused of don't add up. >> reporter: it always just seems to be so bizarre, chris, you're right. every account of this young man
is that he had assimilated well -- perfectly into the community. he was like any other college 19-year-old kid on the campus. with his kid -- with his friends hanging out. yeah, there's no indications of violence or a penchant for violence and very little with his brother except that we know that there was this period where his brother went abroad for some six months or so and apparently may have had some contact with some militant groups and perhaps received some sort of training that helped facilitate the attack at the marathon. but, you know, talking to people in that neighborhood yesterday, it's such a typical place. it's a cambridge neighborhood. very diverse. people from all over the world. young people and just everybody was just in shock that this could happen and that this individual could be a part of this thing. of course, you never think your neighbor's going to end up being a bomber at a prestigious sporting event or anything like that, but there was just a real disconnect between the people who -- what people thought they knew about this young man and
what he turned out to be. apparently just who he was hidden in plain sight as the saying goes, but, again, yes, just a complete shock and awe in that neighborhood. and here at the hospital, again, not a lot of information about his condition. we know when he was arrested, he was alive. we believe he was conscious. somewhat incoherent. interesting to know what was going on during the 20 hours when he was on the run. did he get any help. did he get any sustenance and as soon as police can get in here, talk to him as soon as they feel it is appropriate, he will no doubt be charged with four counts of murder and a whole range of other things in connection with terrorism, the bombing, so on and so forth. just an incredible sequence of events, chris? >> unbelievable and a neighbor who said he was skateboarding on the street in the neighborhood where you were the night before the bombings. thanks so much, ron allen. i want to bring in spencer
ackermann, who reports for danger room blog on national security and heather hurlburt is the executive director at the national security network. good to see both of you. we sort of are feeling this sigh of relief, and you understand why the people in the streets -- first of all, they were able to come out of their houses and they thought the teams did an amazing job at getting the suspects. on the other hand, there's still these critical, unanswered questions. did they act alone? what were the connections, if any, to the older brother going to russia for six months? and so even though seemingly we feel like this is over, heather, there's a lot of questions still out there that really do relate to national security. >> we're going to be looking at this for weeks and months starting, as your colleague just said, when he's able to talk, you know, i think about the example of the underwear bomber, the gentleman who tried to who up a plane over detroit on christmas day who was very severely wounded. fbi went in and talked to him. that resulted in a set of
arrests around the world, a set of counterterrorism leads that went on for weeks and weeks and really turned what had been a really frightening incident into a major step forward in to preventing and breaking up other major networks and plots. i don't think we're going to get anything like that out of this 19-year-old who seems to have been the follower rather than the leader. but, you know, in many ways for all the folks we don't see, the behind-the-scenes part of counterterrorism work, this is where they are all able to start digging in, tracking things down, going to the russians saying, okay, now you all have a job to do, you need to figure out for us what happened when this guy was visiting your country, going back through the online details that we were all chiing and gossiping over yesterday, sailing, okay, seriously what can we devolve from all of this talking to the friends and family. and over time a picture will emerge that's going to tell us a lot in really useful ways to make sure that wherever these two young men got their ideas,
their trade craft, is rolled up and stopped. >> and, spencer, you actually wrote that you see boston as sort of the model for this new kind of manhunt, and there was some frustration -- i was in boston for four days. and there was some frustration being that things weren't moving quickly enough. i can tell you being on scene, they always felt that methodically and very learnedly they were moving in the right direction. >> and what you saw is how you go from knowing absolutely nothing on monday afternoon when the bomb strike -- >> with literally thousands of possible suspects, who knew, you know, among all the people who were there who could have been the person. >> and also considered that authorities on monday afternoon have to treat that place like a crime scene while there are literally thousands of people scurrying across it, possibly damaging what would turn out to be crucial forensic information. ultimately authorities made a rather gutsy call, not something
that veteran investigators tell me is completely an intuitive one, to crowd source the data that would ultimately lead to the identification of the tsarnaev brothers. in previous years, this ultimately has been something of a tension with law enforcement. there's kind of the old, you know, cliche of wanting to leverage the public's knowledge, use the public as investigators' eyes and ears to get information that they perhaps wouldn't natively have, but there's also been a concern about jeopardizing the investigation, about potentially worrying the public that the authorities don't know everything, that can be a little bit inhibiting to the idea of calling out for information. what veteran investigators told me is also in previous years, you just didn't have the volume of data that would be accumulated from everyone who went to the marathon, having an exceptionally highly powerful and highly mobile surveillance
instrument in their pockets with everyone's smartphones, everyone's cameras, the amount of video information, the amount of still imagery from all these different vantage points. >> and the idea that three terabytes is something that we can't even -- it's a volume that we almost cannot fathom, they were able to isolate these pictures. it's extraordinary really. and what we don't know, but it would seem, is that it was the publicity over those photos that sort of smoked them out. >> well, and if you add to that the story that we heard about the gentleman who lost his legs, woke up in hospital, asked for paper and said, it was a guy with a black bag. and so you had the combination of the really sophisticated data analysis and that human piece, so the two together. >> there's so many substories of this including the guy who lost both legs, the picture is almost iconic, who doesn't have insurance in this state where almost everybody is insured, so they started a fund for him. but here's a guy who has lost both of his legs and like you
said, what he wanted to do was help police find the guy who he had looked in the eye and who he gave an extraordinary description to police that helped them in this isolating process. so much to talk about. we're going to talk to pete williams who has been on top of this story throughout. spencer and heather will be with us. more on the investigation coming up next. our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save businesses more than two billion dollars to grow jobs, cut middle class income taxes to the lowest rate in sixty years, and we're creating tax free zones for business startups. the new new york is working creating tens of thousands of new businesses, and we're just getting started. to grow or start your business visit thenewny.com
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it was really like something out of a movie after this extraordinary manhunt that shut down a major metropolitan area, a suspect is pulled out of a boat in somebody's backyard after he went out to get a cigarette. now the question is, what does he know, what will he tell investigators from his hospital bed. let's bring in nbc news justice correspondent pete williams. pete, good morning. >> good morning to you. >> well, let's talk about when, if we know, investigators think they might be able to talk to
dzhokhar tsarnaev and when that happens who would be doing it? >> well, they said last night that he was in serious condition in the hospital, significant blood loss from the wound that he suffered in his shootout with the police in watertown on thursday night. although we did get indications later that he was doing better. they'll want to start questioning him the moment they can possibly do so, and it will be at first a specialized team. these teams were set up in the last couple of years to handle situations exactly like this. it's called a high-value detainee interrogation group. it's made up of the fbi, cia, and dod, and they will go in there and question him. they won't give him his miranda warning about his right to remain silent. they will simply use a federal law, a rule, that says when there's an issue of public safety, they can use an exception to the miranda rule that allows them to find out if there's any imminent threats, any additional accomplices, any other plots, any other
explosives out there. but that only lasts, say, maybe two days and then they'll have to give him his miranda warning. and the justice department says often even in cases like this people continue to talk anyway. >> even though he wasn't mirandized and that was a question that was asked last night at the briefing -- >> right. >> -- right after he was taken into custody, he doesn't lose his rights, right? >> well, he has -- that's right. i mean, he doesn't have to say -- he can't be compelled to talk. if he refuses -- if he just sits there and doesn't answer any questions, they can't make him answer the questions. but the one right that is sort of suspended is, normally speaking if the police ask -- if you're in custody and the police ask you questions without giving your miranda warning, they can't use your answers in court. under this public safety exception they can. because what the courts are basically saying is, it's more important to resolve any possible threat that -- to public safety that may be out there than -- that's how the balance tips in situations like
that. but that diminishes rapidly and probably doesn't last more than, say, 36 to 48 hours. >> and in the meantime, they don't have to offer him a lawyer? >> right. >> let's talk a little bit about the information that are -- that is going to be first and foremost on their minds, and i just tell you just talking to normal folks who have been following this very closely, watching you on tv, the question i've been getting a lot over the last 10 or 12 hours or so, has been, well, you know, how did he do this by himself? how did he elude this big manhunt? was he in that boat waiting for some accomplice to tell him the coast was clear and they were going to help him get out? obviously they want to know is there anybody else involved in this. is that the key point? is that the start of the questioning? >> yes, i believe so. that will be question number one. and then they'll want to know, you know, how -- why did he turn, what caused him to become radicalized. but in order to really fully use this public safety exception, the questions have to be devoted
toward the beginning about whether there are any other threats out there, any other plots, did they hide any other bombs, was anyone helping them. and i must say at least what law enforcement was saying as of late last night was, in all their checking, they haven't found any indication that anyone else was helping them, that they did this entirely -- the marathon bombing did entirely on their own. >> we talking about this just a little earlier, pete, how when you talked to his friends and you talked to his neighbors, they say that dzhokhar, this younger brother, was a great kid, maybe smoked a little bit too much pot if you listen to some of his college friends, but was really well liked, captain of his wrestling team, which tells you that he had some level of popularity but he followed his brother like a puppy dog is the phrase that has been used. and so now we're getting some indication, pete, that his brother actually was at some point spoken to by the fbi because of concerns by another government? >> right. the fbi won't say what that
other government is. everyone assumes that it's russia. they say about two years ago that government contacted the fbi and said they were concerned that he'd become radicalized. the fbi says it looked at his communications to see whether he was talking to terrorists, known terrorists, overseas, whether he was looking at terrorist or jihadi websites, whether he had was -- undergoing any suspicious travel or suspicious travel plans. that they interviewed him directly and couldn't find any deroguer er dederogatory information, and they said we haven't found anything and give us more specifics and that foreign government never responded, so the fbi said, you know, we can't find anything and they closed the case. >> all right. that was in early 2011. >> right. >> it was after that that he went to russia for six months. pete, we have to take a break, but i want to talk to you about that on the other side. accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer.
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continuing coverage of the bombings at the boston marathon, and while police wait to question the younger brother, the 19-year-old, who was in a hospital in boston, we're learning more about his older brother who was generally considered to be the ringleader, 26-year-old tamerlan tsarnaev. pete williams is still with us. and there seems to be a key period in his life, six months when he went back to russia. his father says that he went to visit him, but i guess the key question is, was it at that point that he somehow was radicalized? >> well, that's a -- that's one question. and the second question is, where did these -- where did this expertise really you have to say with explosives come from. i mean, these two -- if you think about it, it's -- yes, the design of the devices was sort of basically out of the, you know, anarchist cookbook or right off the internet of how to make a bomb in a pressure cooker. it's unfortunately very sadly on the internet. but it's still difficult to make
it work. and you add to that the fact that they managed to set off two bombs with some apparently sophistication in how they were detonated, whether they were by a timer or remote control. that certainly you assume is not something that you could do if you were just trying to build a bomb for the very first time. in most of these cases bombers practice. they -- they learn how to do this. they repeatedly try it over and over again. set it off in an open field or somewhere. so, where did they get this? was there training? did they just teach themselves how to do this? where were they practicing? those are the sort of questions that they're going to want to look at, too. because it just seems -- would be very unusual if they just tried this for the very first time and it was a total success. >> yeah. and how do they start even tracking his movements during that six-month period, pete? obviously there's already been a conversation between the president and vladimir putin.
>> right. that's going to be a little bit difficult when you're operating in a foreign government. but to try to trace his movements there, but it's not impossible. people still use credit cards. they still use their cell phones. they still, you know, there's still ways to trace what they were doing. plus, don't forget the other side of this, which is the old-fashioned sort of shoe leather aspect of this, the sort of brute force part of the investigation, is to say, where did this stuff come from. when did he buy the pressure cooker. when did he buy the -- what were those electronic components, where did they come from, where did they buy the gunpowder. it's not an easy thing, because thee are commonly available items, but they're going to -- they're already looking. they've been canvassing the last several days, for example, hobby stores in the boston area to see if they were buying the right kind of batteries or the remote control circuits. >> the batteries, these are not batteries that you go down to the corner store here to pick up
to put in, you know, any of your devices. these were very specialized kind of batteries, so that's a little bit more helpful, right? >> a little bit. but unfortunately, yes, they're not as common as, you know, rayovacs or everreadys or duracells, but there are millions sold in the u.s. you can buy them online. all those things, leave -- if you buy them with a credit card or online, potentially you have a trail to follow. >> thank you, pete. the president did make remarks from the white house briefing room last night. let's play a little of what he had to say -- >> when a tragedy like this happens, with public safety at risk and the stakes so high, it's important that we do this right. that's why we have investigations. that's why we relentlessly gather the facts. that's why we have courts.
and that's why we take care not to rush to judgment. >> well, for more on the president's decisions in all of this, let's go to nbc white house correspondent kristen welker, and i want to ask you about what seemed to be the two key components at this point, first, obviously trying to track tamerlan the older brother, figuring out what he was doing during those six months. the president did make a call to vladimir putin. what do we know about the content of that call, kristen? >> reporter: well, we know that putin expressed his condolences during that phone call, of course, the two brothers from russia. so, we don't know, though, specifically what was said in terms of tracking exactly, you know, the background and where all of this may have come from, where the training comes from in terms of how to make these bombs. i just heard you discussing that with pete williams. so, it was a brief phone call. but i can tell you, chris, that one of the key things that president obama talked about
yesterday when he came out to the briefing room, was there's still more questions here, including was anyone helping these two brothers. so, that is going to be one of the key questions moving forward. he has instructed law enforcement officials, federal law enforcement officials, to continue to ask that question and try to get an answer to that question. you know, it's interesting historians will undoubtedly sort of debate the president's reaction and response to the boston bombings, much as they did with president george w. bush after september 11th, but what we saw yesterday in the white house was the president and his team really trying to keep pace with those quickly evolving events yesterday out of boston. the president noticeably staying out of public view. we didn't hear from white house press secretary jay carney yesterday. that because they didn't want to come and comment on this situation because there were so many unknowns and because it was developing and evolving so quickly. so, president obama, we finally
saw him last night, but i can tell you throughout the day he was being briefed, he had a big briefing with his entire national security team in the morning. then again at about 4:00, he spoke with some of his top advisers, placed phone calls to governor deval patrick as well as mayor tom menino. he was really tuned in to what was going on. but as you know, chris, the events of yesterday were just extraordinary and hard to keep up. >> well, the other key question would the younger brother who is now hospitalized, be tried in a civilian criminal court or would there be military interrogation and we know already there has been some -- some criticism. john mccain, lindsey graham, graham saying at least consider suspect as enemy combatant for intelligence gathering purposes. what is the white house saying about that decision? >> reporter: well, you heard the president urge restraint in terms of passing judgment. i can tell you that representative peter king also joining in the chorus that you
just mentioned. so, i think the white house being very cautious in terms of moving forward on this front, urging sort of restraint from the american people in terms of judging and prejudging how this should be handled at this very moment, chris. >> all right, kristen welker, thanks very much. we'll continue to delve in to many of the issues, where this investigation is going, what we know now and what investigators need to know. for 15 years. that's 3 moves, 5 jobs, 2 newborns. it's no wonder i'm getting gray. but kate -- still looks like...kate. with nice'n easy, all they see is you -- in one simple step, nice'n easy with colorblend technology, gives expert highlights and lowlights. for color that's perfectly true to you. i don't know all her secrets, but i do know kate's more beautiful now, than the day i married her. with the expert highlights and lowlights of nice 'n easy, all they see is you.
yowza! that's why i eat belvita at breakfast. it's made with delicious ingredients and carefully baked to release steady energy that lasts... we are golfing now, buddy! [ grunts ] ...all morning long. i got it! for the win! uno mas! getting closer! belvita breakfast biscuits -- steady energy to do what i do all morning long. good morning from new york, i'm chris jansing. 34 past the hour. we continue our rolling coverage of the developments in boston. at this hour the 19-year-old boston marathon suspect captured last night is at beth israel deaconess medical center suffering from a gunshot wound and blood loss. officials expect to question him the moment his condition improves. we did get some indication last night it was already improving. but many questions for one of the men called a loser by his own uncle and labeled a terrorist by virtually an entire
nation. joining me now michael leiter director of the national counterterrorism center. michael, always good to see you. good morning. >> good morning, chris. >> we were having the conversation with pete williams about the older brother and we know in 2001 at the request of the foreign government, we think russia, but we don't know for sure, the fbi calls tamerlan and asks him some questions, and doesn't find anything. how does that work? because armchair quarterbacking is pretty easy to do and i have this vision of a guy or woman sitting in a room and he has this parade of people coming in who they got to call on from somebody, a foreign government or an informant or something. tell us how that works. >> and just to clarify one piece, it was actually 2011, not 2001 that they got that tip. >> yes, 2011. sorry. >> fundamentally the fbi and state and local officials do get a sea of tips which say, you know, my neighbor this or worry
about that guy. and what they'll do is they'll open a threat assessment. all this information will generally go in the joint terrorism task force which is state, federal officials. that threat assessment will then allow the fbi to do certain types of intelligence collection. but because it's very preliminary, they can't do truly invasive things. so, for example, they can't just get a wiretap off this tip. it generally allows them to go talk to the people, maybe do a little bit of investigation on the internet, and that sounds like what happened here. if the fbi sees anything of concern, they can do more invasive investigative measures, but if not, then they will generally close that threat assessment unless additional information comes back to them. >> and it's possible. we don't know at what point if he did what we suspect he did, we don't know at what point he decided that he wanted to do something violent in the united states. and they're going to look certainly very closely at the six-month period when he was in russia.
and you start to look at little things, you know, as i'm reading the volumes of information that are coming out and thinking, well, his father, who apparently was kind of a tough guy. he was a mechanic who they say would go under a car and stay there forever in the coldest possible wateather. hardworking guy, but tough on his kids. was very disappointed when tamerlan dropped out of school, unlike his younger brother, seemed to have some trouble assimilating. never felt like he completely fit in. so, you start looking at all these things. i'm sure the profilers are looking at them. but is it -- how difficult will it be to sort of pinpoint at what -- at what point something turned? >> this really is one of the hardest things that counterterrorism professionals have to do. we talk generally about people who are radicalized, and that is, they have what we would consider extremist views. and then the people who are actually mobilized, who take those extremist views and turn towards violence.
and the first category is vastly larger than the second category. there are lots of people who have extremist views in society, all sorts of views, not justicelamijustice la just islamist views. and looking at all the factors of the individual, their behavior, the family situation, how they're interacting, their finances, their communications, you try to predict and get in front of those who will turn to violence, but that is an incredibly hard problem. and the fact is you can't watch all of the people all of the time. you simply don't have the resources for that in the u.s. and our neighbors or our allies in places like the united kingdom have learned that over and over again as well. >> i mean, what we do know about this family, because there's been a lot of talk about the caucasuses and they were refugees from a brutal conflict in that area. let me bring in justin burke, who is a manager editor at
eurasia.org, as you've been looking at this over the last 24 hours or so, justin, what your sense of what ties there may be, if any at all, to the conflict in that area? >> my gut says there's not too great a connection. i think more important to look at is their exile experience. essentially their chechens, but they have a very tenuous connection to chechnya. they spent a lot of time in kyrgyzstan, that is going through a marked democracy, and there's a chechen diaspora community in chechnya that they were part of that is being left behind because there's a very fierce fight over resources in that central asian state. then they move to dagastan, that's another north caucasuses
public that's part of russia, and that's also a hotbed of discontent with economic and religious ferment. so, you have to look at their experiences there. and then they've been in the united states for many, many years. so, chechnya and the turmoil, the decades of turmoil, all the years of conflict, maybe plays a tangential role in all of this. >> it's interesting i thought, and maybe i'm reading too much into it, and i'm wondering what you think about it, justin, that his uncle yesterday, who was obviously extremely upset and was talking about them as a bunch of losers and told the younger one to turn himself in, said, we are ethnic chechens. and i sort of took that to mean that doesn't mean that we are, you know, a part of a certain philosophy or we are a part of the conflict there, we're motivated by a conflict there. >> to a certain extent that's very accurate.
it's like saying maybe if you were irish during the late '70s in the united states, you were a member of the i.r.a. now obviously islam plays a role in chechen culture. it's a pillar of chechen culture. but i think it's important not to rush to judgment about what motivated these -- these young men. >> justin burke, michael leiter, if you can hold on. [ female announcer ] the only patch for the treatment
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from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? the parents of the alleged bombers continue to deny their sons could have been involved in the attack. you could kill me, but i would never believe they had anything to do with this, the father, anzor tsarnaev told nbc news from russia. this is nonsense, it doesn't add up. adrienne mong is in moscow for us, and what else can you tell
us about that interview, adrienne? >> reporter: the father of the bombing suspects anzor tsarnaev says he believes his sons were framed for the attacks and he's scared for his surviving younger son. the father said he'd last spoken to 26-year-old tamerlan and 19-year-old dzhokhar just after the marathon to make sure they were okay. to a reporter from a pro-russian government newspaper, he quoted the boys as saying, the brothers, as saying, dad, don't worry, we did not go there. everybody is alive and well. tsarnaev who brought his two boys, their family, to the united states about ten years ago, has been living in dagastan as you mentioned. this is a russian republic, small republic, with a population of about 3 million near the iranian border and it has a very long, troubled history with russia. there's an active separatist movement in place there, trying
to break away from moscow. now, the mother of the two brothers, who's also in dagastan, she said that she also believes her younger son is innocent, and she went on to describe at length to russian media here, saying that both of them were good, courteous, and model students. she also said that dzhokhar in particular was well loved by everybody, by his friends. he had many friends and teachers and was looking to build a career as a great doctor. there have also been some other reports of other relatives including an aunt in canada, who said that she had heard that tamerlan who is also described as a musician, had become very religious recently and was praying five times a day, chris? >> all right, thank you very much, adrienne mong, who is in moscow for us. i want to bring back in justin burke and michael leiter. and, mike, i'm sorry? okay. we don't have michael. so, let me brick you back in,
justin, and i know you wanted to make this sort of point of caution about, you know, tieing to what is going on back in their homeland. and you do start to hear some of these things, like, when the uncle came out yesterday, he talked about being estranged from the family. there are other members of the family who said that they were estranged from the father. i don't know that we've gotten a definitive answer about why he went back to russia. but you don't even know, do you, i mean, this could be something about family dynamics and discontent that fed an already discontented 26-year-old who felt he didn't fit in? >> absolutely. there are so many questions that we don't know, and we're not even sure where they were in kyrgyzstan, it's not only a security issue, it is also
partially a diplomatic issue. relations with russia have to be managed. they've been tense. this has the potential to increase friction. another thing to take in to consideration is the caucasuses culture. the patchwork nationalities of the caucasuses. the people there are -- have pride. they are very proud peoples, and they also can be quick to take offense. and there is a tradition in some of these regions of a blood feud. now, there could be familial problems. the uncle in maryland has said he hasn't had contact for a while with the tsarnaev family. so, what happened there? there's so many issues that we still need to unravel. >> and heather hurlburt and spencer ackermann are still
here, and heather, it seems to me there will be a lot of profilers who are working on this. you know, short of dzhokhar waking up in his hospital bed and saying, okay, here's why we did this, they're really going to have to dig down deep to figure out exactly what the motivation was. >> you know, chris, one of the things that strikes me we haven't talked about, there are also two sisters, and it seemed from some of the reporting yesterday that at least one of the sisters was also estranged from the family and in a terribly sad circumstance that she learned what had happened from reporters coming to her door so clearly. and we see this in other cases, that we go all the way from the global to the very personal, what went wrong in this family that was under tremendous strain, you know, at every level, historically, culturally, your own personal life and then, you know, the older brother. it will be very interesting to see what russian intelligence can tell us or what russian intelligence will tell us. because there's no way somebody
unknown, foreign was running around a part of russia for six months and didn't come to the attention of russian authorities, so, you know, at every level from the sort of pop s psychology that all of us are engaging in this morning to the very highest levels of global intrigue. who knew what about this. >> there's a separate profile that investigators are going to have to consider, which is these brothers now have provided something of a successful story for would-by-co hiwould-be copy. since 9/11 there haven't been high profile successful attacks particularly with constructing bombs. there's been a lot of failures, these guys just succeeded if, in fact, they're innocent until proven guilty, but whoever did it, succeeded in pulling off something that captivated the country's attention and the world's attention in a really disastrous way and that's also
going to lead to an uncomfortable question that law enforcement in boston is going to have to confront, which is was it really necessary to lock the city down. was it necessary to in smoking these guys out to do something that would be very difficult to scale up. you didn't see that happen in new york city after the would-be times square bomber. you didn't see it in d.c. after the 2000 sniper shooting. it seemed throughout the day, especially after dzhokhar escaped a 200-round gunfire exchange, to have potentially risked creating something of an inspiring story for would-be copycats and that's going to be a very dicey thing to confront especially when you also consider that after they lift the lockdown, dzhokhar looks like he's gotten away and it's only when the guy steps out to have a smoke that he realizes that there's something bleeding on his tarp in his boat. >> yeah, there are going to be a lot of questions that are asked about this investigation. not necessarily always to point
fingers, but to figure out how in the future, god forbid, we get in this situation again, they can even do it better. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back we'll talk to a former state department official p.j. crowley and he'll have insight in to international cooperation that may or may not happen to help us get answers to some of these questions. play st begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ [ male announcer ] that's handy. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it.
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we are back and we are looking into the mind of the two men who are accused in causing so much terror, so much death, so much destruction in boston. and how do we find out what motivated this? well, joining us now from washington is former assistant secretary of state for public affairs p.j. crowley, always good to see you, p.j., good morning. >> hi, chris, good morning. >> we know there was this phone call between the president and vladimir putin. is there any doubt in your mind whether or not russia will cooperate with this investigation, and is that active cooperation or more passive, in other words, letting
the united states have some access to investigate? what would cooperation mean? >> well, we don't know what the international connection is at all. well, besides the russia trip that tamerlan made last year. and i think that there's undoubtedly already been conversations and cooperation under way between russia and the united states to try to flesh out exactly what he did there and who he met with. but there's a broad international cooperation, that's what has distinguished us before 9/11 and after 9/11, so i'm confident the intelligence community has been touching all bases relevant to the threat of terrorism around the world to see if there's anything there, connections, you know, through the internet, connections, you know, through people that might have had contact with him as mike leiter was saying, as we pull threads based on, you know, the digital signatures that, you know, come out of this investigation, all of those will be exploited by the intelligence community. >> all right, p.j. crowley, i
think you're going to stick with us for our next hour. >> sure. but we'll take a quick break and be back with more on the investigation with nbc pete williams and roger cressey. zb÷a step! [ mom ] my little girl...she loves to help out on big jobs. good thing there's bounty select-a-size. it's the smaller powerful sheet that acts like a big sheet. look! one select-a-size sheet of bounty is 50% more absorbent than a full size sheet of the leading ordinary brand. ♪ i got it! [ mom ] use less with the small but powerful picker upper. bounty select-a-size. and try bounty napkins.
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(announcer) the all-new subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. coming up on 9:00 on the east coast, good morning from new york, i'm chris jansing. the 19-year-old suspected of terrorizing an entire city for nearly a week is being treated right now at beth israel deaconess medical center in boston. in the meantime, investigators are poised to begin interrogating him. the question is when will he be well enough for that questioning. obviously they want to determine what might have motivated him and his brother, what connections they might have to any other possible terrorists. what in their background might have led to seemingly normal kids to resort to unspeakable violence against innocent people. prosecutors are beginning to build a case against him, dzhokhar tsarnaev was captured last night in watertown after a
local resident discovered him hiding in a boat in his backyard. following that daylong manhunt that paralyzed not just boston but many suburbs, turning the region into a virtual military zone. tsarnaev along with his 26-year-old brother tamerlan who died early friday in their standoff with police, is accused of planting bombs at the finish line of the boston marathon monday. three people were killed. scores more wounded. later he's accused of shooting and killing 26-year-old m.i.t. police officer sean collier. the fbi's hostage rescue team pulled tsarnaev from his hiding spot last night after tossing flash bang grenades. he was treated on the scene, taken by ambulance to beth israel deaconess medical center. as tsarnaev was taken away, we saw jubilation on the streets, relief rolling through the streets of watertown. residents who had been under lockdown for almost a day, cheered as the ambulances and police vehicles went past, marking an end to the manhunt.
>> yay. >> thank you! >> whoo! >> now, the president's national security team was keeping him briefed throughout, and after the capture last night, he applauded law enforcement officials, but said there would be more work to do in the coming investigation. >> obviously tonight there's still many unanswered questions. among them, why did young men who grew up and studied here as part of our communities and our country resort to such violence. how did they plan and carry out these attacks, and did they receive any help. the families of those killed so senselessly deserve answers. the wounded, some of whom now have to learn how to stand and walk and live again deserve answers. luke russert is at the hospital where the 19-year-old
suspect is right now. luke, good morning to you. and i'm just wondering if there's any update on his condition or if we're expecting one, i have to say, in the five days i was in boston, the officials at the hospitals were terrific of keeping us updated on what was going on. but we have a different situation, it's not a victim of a bombing, it's somebody who is under criminal investigation. >> reporter: yeah, chris, different situation here. the officials at the hospital have really said all questions about the condition of the suspect really have to go to the proper authorities. so far, we've not received a new update. we were told by state officials last night or rather early in the morning that he had lost a decent amount of blood and was in serious condition, but stable condition. it's thought that his condition would be improving. obviously up next for him would be some sort of court arraignment. they basically want to see how long it will take for him to get better in the hospital behind me until that's able to occur. a few interesting points here, chris, from just being outside,
the streets that were so abandoned yesterday when the city was so shut down, you're starting to see folks come back to life. you are starting to see folks go out to dunkin' donuts and have coffee and go out to breakfast, having nice to see. also the hospital behind me is well known in the area, beth israel, it's in the longwood area, one of the top, top, top hospitals in boston. it's also the hospital where his brother tamerlan was pronounced dead earlier yesterday. so, it does have some history with regard to these attacks. obviously we're sitting here waiting. when is he well enough to be questioned by the authorities and go to arraignment, that's the next step in the process as the story continues to unfold at least in the literal sense, there's so many questions and those will not be answered until he's well enough to speak. >> all right, thanks very much, luke. i know you'll keep us posted as you get more information. i want to bring back nbc news justice correspondent pete
williams. and i guess let's start with what you're hearing. how hopeful are officials that they might be able to talk to him today? >> we hope to learn more about that today, chris, but, you know, he doesn't have to leave the hospital to have his first court appearance. they can bring the madg magistro have the official operappearanc make sure that he understands he is who he says he is and all that. that's a very pro forma thing that can be done in the hospital. they'll want to start the questioning as soon as they can. we were told last night, as luke said, he was in serious condition, but then we heard he was doing better and they are undoubtedly transfusing him to replace the lost blood. so, how much his injuries are beyond that, i don't know, but they're going to want to start the questioning, i would think today or tomorrow. >> and i guess to get to that point and we were saying earlier what is the likelihood that he'll cooperate. what are the chances that there will be a conversation of let's make a deal? i don't know, is this a capital
case? could this be a negotiation? you tell us what we want to know and you won't get the death penalty? >> it could. and that's often happens. they will undoubtedly charge him with using a weapon of mass destruction, that's a legal term for anything that can kill a large number of people, which their bombs certainly did. and they will charge him with that. and if the federal statute says when you use a weapon like that if death results, then you could face the death penalty, so that certainly is a possibility that they will be able to talk to him about. >> and i guess the key question we heard from the president last night and he said there are many unanswered questions, is did they get any help, is there still a threat out there. >> right. that's a very important question. the indications so far are no. but that's a very preliminary assessment based on the evidence they found so far. they'll see where that goes. and in terms of the why, the motive, that's something they're definitely going to want to know because they want to obviously prevent anything like this from
happening again. but for the legal case, the why isn't necessarily a key part of that. the mere fact of what they did is the central part of the case. the government has an extremely strong case. they have witnesses who have described them. they have all this video. they'll have whatever they find in the -- in the house in terms of bomb making equipment, evidence that they built the devices there. they'll try to prove as well as they can that they did actually buy the specific pieces that were recovered. so, they have a very strong forensic case. >> yeah. i mean, i was even thinking that if they were smart enough, if that's the way to put it, not to use credit cards so that, for example, you couldn't trace that they bought the pressure cooker, might that store have security cameras, i mean, there are so many ways now -- >> right. >> -- that they can trace these kind of things. what kind of withdrawals did they take from atms, et cetera. do we have an idea of how big
the scope was, i remember after 9/11 seeing, you know, the number of police in concentration in one area, maybe down around ground zero. but in terms of the other investigative arms, who's working on this? >> well, it's still -- it will be a federal case, because this is a federal offense to use a weapon of terror. the boston authorities can pursue a case on their own as well, because it's their citizens in a couple of cases or their residents who were killed, so they can bring their charges, too. and we've seen that happen in many cases, where the federal government goes first and then the state does. but to answer your question, they'll be intelligence agencies looking at their communications. there will be fbi, atf, all the other folks who analyze communications fanning out to try to basically reconstruct what they've been doing for the last several months. >> pete williams, thank you so much. and i know you will update us as
you get more information. i'm thinking that it's even possible a few people may be trying to catch a few hours sleep at this point because there hasn't been much since monday. thank you so much, pete. we have spencer ackermann here, he's the senior writer for wired, and heather hurlburt is the executive director for the national security network, and justin burke, from eurasia.org. the motivation may not be necessary for the criminal case, but it's what a lot of people want to know, how could you do this, how could you set a bomb, and we saw the photographs that to me that were so chilling that you actually saw the younger one making his way to the front so he could go over that barrier. put down the bag that we presume held the bomb. you see the picture of 8-year-old marty, the youngest victim of the three who were killed here.
and when you look at all this, you think, what, why, how could someone have done this, and they immediately looked back to chechnya. they are ethnic chechens. but you don't seem to think that chechen separatism motivated this maybe as much as radical jihadism? >> yes, i think radical jihadism is maybe the most likely avenue to pursue. chechen separatism is maybe something that obviously has to be looked in to, but i wouldn't -- that wouldn't be my top priority. and i just want to say that also i was a runner in the marathon. i crossed the liner there minutes before the bombs went off, and i am very interested to find out what motivated these two young men. if indeed they are the bombers. we can't rush to judgment. >> yeah, i can only imagine that on that day you had conversations with other
runners. i mean, look, every conversation i heard the next day in coffee shops, in restaurants, because a lot of people were still there, and they were wearing the blue and the yellow, kind of of in a sign of solidarity, those shirts that a lot of the runners were wearing, was how close was i to that moment and what if. what if you hadn't pushed yourself a little more. what if when you were getting tired, you'd slowed down a little bit. you must have asked yourself that question a million times. >> i've asked myself many what-ifs. i felt terrible when i crossed the finish line and i almost took a detour into the medical tent. i could have been there when the bombs went off. i was making my way to the subway, and -- or the "t" in boston, and what happens if they decided to hit the "t" at that time. there are many what-ifs and i would like some answers not just as an expert on the region, but as a participant in the
marathon. >> and, spencer, i think he makes a really great point. we haven't talked about this before. you're looking at very different things here. there's a legal case that has to be built. but i think that everybody involved in this investigation, and let's not forget, a lot of these investigators knew people as well. this is their community. i'm talking about the -- you know, the local fbi office, the other people involved in that investigation for whom this is deeply, deeply personal. there are lots of reasons to answer many of these questions, not just to answer questions for people, you know, who may have been impacted by this, the families, first and foremost, but as you were mentioning before, because we're going to look forward and say, what does this teach us about how we can find someone earlier the next time, prevent this from happening again. >> that's right. it really should be stated early and often none of us in the press have any idea what motivated these guys. >> no clue. >> it is way, way too early to
be speculating about this. it's also dubiously helpful. when we're looking at ihow law enforcement reacted and how the case got made in terms of calling in the public to use data that they extracted themselves essentially asking the public to be their own eyes and ears and to turn what in previous years would have been fleeting impressions, momentary observations into harvesting off of their phones and off of their cameras and off of their social media feeds extractible information, is very likely to be the basis of what we will see in the future when mass crime events happen, when perhaps terrorist events occur in the united states, again, as everyone predicts they are, you know, likely in some way. that's going to be something that investigators will be looking at boston and looking at this experience for a long time to extract lessons, to figure out how you can go in just five
days from not knowing anything about what happened at the crime scene to having a suspect in custody alive. >> and the social media aspect of this is fascinating. we know that dzhokhar was tweeting after the event. we're going to take a quick break. be back with more. iness? by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.
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we are back and we are talking about the motive, what could have made anyone, someone, do something this heinous, terrorize an entire city, kill people, maim people. heather hurlburt, we were talking about this earlier, there is a difference between sort of the legal reason to find this out or not and satisfying what all of us really want to know. >> you know, chris, it's not just the legal reason, it's also what's the best way to prevent
these from happening in the future. and as much as all of us as human beings want to understand why, the best way to stigmatize this, to make it unattractive and it's what our civilian court system is so good at is demonstrating it doesn't matter why you did this. there is no religious justification, no political, no personal justification that makes it okay to kill 8-year-olds and blow legs off of people and our criminal court system will do that, and it will keep the motivation out of it. and whatever his cause may have been, he will not be able to present that as a justification, which, you know, again, is something that americans who just respond to these as human beings should feel really good at even as we try to turn to settings such as this to make sense of it as human beings. >> being in the neighborhood where marty lived and talking to the mothers of friends who, you know, played sports with him, they want to know, but they also don't want the suspects -- >> yeah. >> -- to get more attention, you know, than they feel they should.
they want the focus to be on what was lost, you know, not on the picture that we're seeing right here. i want to go to kerry sanders, who has been covering this throughout, in fact, at one point one of the images that we all remember is kerry, you getting told to get down on the ground, recognizing that this was an ongoing, dangerous situation really for not just since monday, but particularly once it became clear that these guys were on the run and were shooting people and killing people in cold blood. so, it also makes it very understandable that scene yesterday that gave us all a rush when you saw the people of watertown lining the streets and cheering, cheering for the police, cheering for the rescue personnel. their way of saying thank you, job well done. >> reporter: i got to tell you, it was chilling last night, and folks were standing out on the corner, chris, in shorts because
they had just gotten out of their house. and i saw these three people on the corner in the cold, and every time a marked unit came by, they were cheering, and they were cheering with the same enthusiasm for everyone and they stood there for 45 minutes, just clapping and cheering as every first responder came by. and i think it really reflects the appreciation the folks here who had been locked inside their homes, who had had to endure the fear that really a suspect may be in their backyard, may have somehow burrowed into their basement, might be hiding right there, that somehow they were able to survive this without ultimately finding themselves on the receiving end of some horror. >> luke russert was saying over at the hospital that it seemed like life was getting back to normal. is that what you're seeing in watertown, too? >> reporter: it's a different life as normal, though, you know? >> yeah, well -- >> reporter: after the bombings on monday and after the siege of the city, folks -- somebody told me this morning, do you know
what, this is a moment to sit across from the table and say to a family member, do you know what, i love you or something like that. it's kind of like one of those calm moments. somebody else told me how, you know, you wait for a moment in life where you can, like, avoid everything and be locked in your house and then something like this happens and all you want to do is get out. and so it's a lot of reflection on, you know, what is important. and i think a lot of people really are thankful it's over. but they're also scratching their heads because, you know, there's no real answer to explain as to why, and even when that explanation may come, it may not make any sense. >> well, it won't make any sense, i think, you know, to heather's point, there is no explanation that makes this okay or makes this understandable, but we all understand the motivation to want to know why. in watertown, which had a harrowing day yesterday, kerry sanders, thank you so much. >> reporter: sure. more... step! [ mom ] my little girl...she loves to help out on big jobs. good thing there's bounty select-a-size. it's the smaller powerful sheet
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we just got confirmation. we are not expecting the hospital to release any further information about dzhokhar, anything like that will come from the fbi. and obviously investigators want to talk to him on what has become a widespread investigation. joining us from washington, former assistant secretary of state for public affairs, p.j. crowley. let me start with the obvious question is how to state at this point fit into this investigation? >> well, clearly the tsarnaev family came to the united states from kyrgyzstan, kyrgyzstan has been an ally of the united states in the connection with afghanistan over the years. so -- but looking back at the visa process, and was there anything that came to light there. but i think primarily this is about the intelligence community and going back, you know, obviously we have the russia connection to exploit. and i think one of the more remarkable things here is the -- in terms of these international
connections is to compare the two brothers and what seems to be the lack of a escape plan from, say, the times square bomber where faisal shahzad was literally pulled off an airplane. he'd received some support from the pakistani taliban and was presumably heading back after planting the bomb. it will explain the russia connection but checking through those who have a perspective on jihadi networks just to figure out what, if anything, is the international dimension to this. >> p.j., stay with us, but it is, i mean, fascinating as you try to get your head around this and into the heads of these suspects, spencer. they were just kind of hanging out in the neighborhood still, you know, days later. >> this is one of the things that remains completely inexplicable and it will be fascinating to find out from the interviews that the high-value detainee interrogation group does that perhaps comes out at trial, so many basic questions
that you think are intuitive for people who would commit mass violence like this, why didn't they split up, why did they have to rob a guy out of his car for his atm card to finance their escape. why did they not immediately leave boston after the attacks. what was the rationale for dzhokhar on what we believe to be his twitter feed for saying, like, we hope everyone's okay out there, quoting some lyrics of some songs. did they intend to actually stay in boston in the area that they knew very intimately until the imagery came out from the fbi that made that perhaps an untenable thing. we have no answers to this, but these are questions that just remain. >> something so simple and everything we know about dzhokhar, he's very socially media savvy, he was pretty technically savvy. this is a kid who got a scholarship, so, you know, he's a smart guy. his dad said he was extremely intelligent.
did they not know there were cameras everywhere, did they not know that the department store across the street had cameras that were capturing them? i mean, the first thought a lot of fork folks that i talked to intelligence had was did they want to be seen, because they were at the place that later was accurately described as probably the most photographed place in america on that day. >> and they had -- as we found out, you know, horrifically yesterday, they had constructed other bombs seemingly for a case of pursuit. so, we have no idea, but, you know, was that some kind of exit strategy, suicide by cop? it's, you know, a complete unknown question. >> well, and at the same time there's no manifesto, there's no suicide note. >> this isn't the unabomber. >> there's no sort of grand statement of any kind of ideology which, you know, in some ways, chris, may actually turn out to be good us in, that unlike the times square bomber that spencer mentioned, unlike
the 9/11 bombers, nobody worked with these guys to give them a plan. nobody thought it was very important what happened to them. nobody thought it was worth making sure they had money and resources. so, you know, whatever support they did or didn't have, it wasn't very strong. it wasn't very deep, and it wasn't very concerned with them. all of which are successes of news intelligence, u.s. law enforcement, in making it much, much harder to set up the big, strong web where you can set something off like that and get away with it and get away. >> and you do something so visible as they allegedly did, you know, to go out, to carjack, to take a guy and, p.j., this is really another of these fascinating things that, you know, we're going to want to look at and, you know, i've been joking that you couldn't write a movie like this that anybody
would buy because it's almost so unbelievable, although i'm sure someone will make a movie about it at some point. but they go and carjack somebody. they hold him at gunpoint for half an hour. they say to him, we're the bombers. >> we're the guys. >> we're the boston bombers and then they let him go. >> sure. and as heather was just saying, thistells us about the evolution over the last ten years, in 2011, many people killed and in this case four people killed and a number in very serious condition. so, this is a threat with less capability perhaps. it's also less predictable. and, you know, we are -- our batting average at interdicting these kind of lone wolves or small actors has been very good over the past 12 years, but, you know, we can never lower the risk to zero. >> yeah, and i'm very interested
in, you know, the question of damages. some are very obvious. you have families that are grieving losses, whether it's the life or limbs, but what about the loss of security, what does it mean, you know, to those mothers who i talked to in boston who said that their children were waking up in the middle of the night and saying where is my friend, had whose children couldn't sleep at night saying are the bad guys still out there, are they going to get me next. we'll talk about that. there's much more to discuss right after this. wait a sec! i found our colors. we've made a decision. great, let's go get you set up... you need brushes... you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. behr premium plus interior paint, only at the home depot and starting at $23.46 a gallon.
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there is a national investigative focus to get answers to so many questions about what happened in boston. last night in the briefing room, president obama talked about some of the instant reporting and legal speculation that's been circulating as last night's manhunt concluded. do we have that sound? >> someplace else. was it in russia, did tamerlan practice there -- >> no, let me read that for you
what the president had to say. he said when a tragedy like this happens with public safety at risk and the stakes so high, it's important that we do this right. that's why we have investigations. for more on the president's handling of all this, let's go to nbc white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, good morning again. is there any chance we'll hear from the president today or we'll get any briefing from the white house today? >> reporter: chris,ively think it's unlikely that we'll see the president or hear from him or even get a briefing for that matter. the president came out late last night, but that was once the suspect was in custody. he was very hesitant to come out before they had all of the information, before they had all of the facts and before this was in essence resolved, so once he felt comfortable, that's when he basically came out. i think at this point they are going to let the investigation continue to evolve. what will happen behind the scenes here at the white house, chris, i expect the president to be in contact with his national
security team. in his remarks last night, you heard him say there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered and made the point that he had directed federal law enforcement officials to begin trying to get those answers including what motivated these two brothers, and also was anyone else helping them. was anyone else assisting them as pete williams has indicated, law enforcement officials at this point in time have not given an indication that they believe that there are accomplices in this case, but certainly that is one of the things that federal law enforcement officials are going to be looking at in the coming days and months as they try to get to the bottom of exactly what happened in this case, chris. >> kristen welker, thanks so much. i want to bring in former deputy counterterrorism expert up from the national security council, nbc terrorism analyst roger cressey. i have to say that what kristen just said and what the president said and what i hear most is did they have any help, and the indications that we're getting is that they didn't. i think there's different levels of help. i'm going back to when officials
when they were asking the public for its help, said somebody knew something. somebody saw something. somebody overheard something. help us to find these individuals before obviously they were found. and i just wonder what your -- where your thoughts are, where you're looking right now. >> yeah, chris, i think this is a really important question. because when the manhunt phase was under way, special agent deslauriers said those exact words, somebody knows the bombers. well, there's also a strong possibility somebody knew something that the tsarnaev brothers were doing was out of the ordinary, was strange. and i have to believe that there was some awareness, maybe within the family, maybe in a broader general circle, that something was just not right. because if that's not the case, if these two were able to be completely self-contained and really not tip off any of their activities to anybody, that is a
very chilling proposition for this type of phenomenon going forward. >> you know, but i guess, you know, i go back, for example, to newtown and you have a mother who knew that her son had serious mental and emotional problems, but never thought he would do something like go into an elementary school -- >> right. >> -- and murder 20 kids. there's different levels of knowing, you know, you can know a friend is a little strange or is acting differently after they get back from russia, but you don't make that leap very different from somebody who really knew something. >> well, that's exactly right. and we've heard a lot about how the older brother, tamerlan, when he came back, started posting radical and extremist messages on the internet, youtube videos. well, posting those things may make you an idiot, but it doesn't guarantee you're going to be a terrorist. and that frankly is not a trigger in and of itself. so there's the investigation part of the why which we've been talking about now for some time, why they did it, is really going to focus on how they're able to
assemble these devices. maybe if they didn't practice detonating them and just did it for the first time on monday, that's remarkable. and we got to get away from it, is it a so fisty itcatphisticats it crude, it didn't matter. it was successful. if they didn't practice with it and successfully detonated for the first time, it leads you could conclude they are far more talented or they had some sort of support and assistant and training. >> for maybe they were just lucky. maybe the first time they put something together and they got instructions -- look, i don't know that random speculation is very helpful, but it does help us, you know, to sort of to look at the ways that investigators might be going after this. and where do you think their prioritizes right now, roger? >> well, they're going to look at scenarios. they're going to look at options. they're going to say, all right,
if these individuals did it by themselves, how would that have happened. if they were given support and guidance, how would that happen, who would have been involved. and they're going to look at specific scenarios. "a," as they build the intelligence case to understand is there a broader network at play here and who might be involved overseas or not or just the basic case for prosecution to understand why they were able to put these devices together successfully, but you're right, luck does play a part in it. we've been lucky in the united states with a lot of failed terror attempts because a lot of the potential bombers were eith incompetent or stupid and in this case these two were successful and we have to find out why that's the case. >> you also make your own luck and i think it's worth pointing out that at this point we've come so far from 9/11 the way we're able to track these folks and we don't know how many were thwarted and never became public, so we're going to learn a lot from this in any case, i think that's a given, as they continue the investigation. roger cressey, always good to
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we have been focusing on the suspect today, the one who's still alive and hospitalized, but even with all the cheering and jubilation in boston overnight obviously that the suspect was in custody, the other one killed, that city is still keeping the wounded in their thoughts and mourning the dead, four dead now with that m.i.t. police officer. nbc's katy tur is with us from copley square in boston. 186 people initially went to the hospital, katy, where are now? >> reporter: there are 54 patients still in the hospital. we believe 7 of them are still in critical condition. of course, this city is very relieved to find out that the suspected terrorist has been caught, one of them killed. the other one has been caught, but there's a lot of remembrance and there's a lot of mourning thing and there's a lot of thanks being given to the people who sacrificed their lives in order to get this point.
one of them is sean collier, the m.i.t. officer who was shot late thursday. 26-year-old fatally shot. this is what started the chase. his family and his friends are right now remembering him, saying that the only fault that he had was that he was just too brave. there's always an nbta transit officer, richard donohue, he was injured in the gun battle early friday morning in the gun battle in watertown and there are the victims, 8-year-old martin richard, 29-year-old krystle campbell and lu lingzi, they are being remembered, a lot of sadness still surrounding that and 54 patients still in the hospital, 7 in critical, and chris, we believe that two of them are children, a boy and a girl, still in critical condition as we speak at this point. >> i know when i left there, i think the boy and the girl were maybe 9 and 10 years old, so we're talking, again, like, little kids and there's been no word about any -- any plans for
funerals at this point that you've heard? >> reporter: we haven't heard anything. we haven't heard anything yet. i mean, there's been so much focus and attention on trying to find the guy. i think this morning as that is being put to rest and a lot of those questions are being answered, they're going to start talking about when they're going to have wakes, when they're going to have funerals. there's been an ongoing memorial just down the street over on boylston, the people are laying down flowers and cards and teddy bears and stuff like that. but in terms of official -- official services, we haven't heard anything. of course, there was the service at the church on friday with the president. i believe it was friday. i think it was thursday, the days are starting to run into each other right now. but as of family events, we haven't gotten any word about that. >> katy tur who has been on the scene for us throughout this week, thank you so much. and still with me spencer ackermann, senior writer at wired, heather hurlburt executive director at the national security network. look, they had -- they had to know, they had to know, once all of those pictures were coming
out, that it was inevitable that they were going to get caught, and yet they seemed to go about finally deciding maybe that they wanted to save their own skin to escape and not the brightest way by doing a carjacking. and if they were smart enough, i guess, to make these high-impact but fairly low-tech bombs, that doesn't mean they're smart in a lot of other ways, does it? >> no. and it tends to be a perennial of discussions about terrorism. we talk about the crude aspect of what they built, how objectively speaking they're weaker than the might of the united states military and law enforcement, but that doesn't mean that they're dumb. that doesn't mean that they don't have technical sophistication. you know, look at it from a, you know, the perspective analogous to a commercial tech device. do you want something you know will work or do you want something that looks somewhat more sophisticated, somewhat flashier but is still in beta
and might not work so well? the fact of the matter is that unlike some previous bombing efforts, these two brothers allegedly, we're going to say allegedly in this case, built something that they knew would work. something as proven as a pressure cooker bomb which has been a staple of many previous bombing campaigns, that as you heard roger cressey say, however they managed to test it or not test it, is a pretty proven and reliable design. >> and we like to look at history to give us clues, but when you look at history, there have been more than a few instances, heather, where people who would seem to have more technical sophistication, more means, maybe spent more time on it, were not successful. >> well, the times square bomber, for example, had a very sophisticated bomb, could have blown up a whole car, could have killed many of, many more people than were killed in boston, the underwear bomber, you know, a bombmaker in yemen spent months constructing a device that would fit into the guy's underwear.
it didn't detonate, and had it detonated it might well have not actually blown up the plane. that gentleman also tried to put bombs in u.p.s. packages, again, they failed. there's a reason that terrorists go back to these very simple things. at the same time, what's so very interesting about these guys as spencer said, they were smart enough to go low tech with the bomb, but they were very enmeshed in our high-tech, social media world and, of course, that's what led us to them in the pend. >> yeah, in the end, it did seem to be what smoked them out. they decided, they saw their picture everywhere and knew at some point they had to get out of the place where everybody knew them. >> one would have to think that it's just untenable after the fbi makes the decision on thursday to release the imagery that there wouldn't be people coming forward as you heard roger cressey say, people making the decision already very eager to help local law enforcement and the fbi find the culprits,
jogging their own memories, thinking of where they might have seen a guy wearing the golf cap that tamerlan is believed to have worn. at the same time, one of the most fascinating aspects of it, did they have le jisty cal mechanisms in out or why didn't they trigger that earlier. it's going to be something that i'm sure investigators are going to be asking jdzhokhar when they're able to. >> the massive lockdown is over but there are still literally huge numbers of investigators on this case. we'll continue to talk about it right after this. which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science.
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good to see you. good morning. >> good to see you, chris. >> there is so much evidence against this alleged bomber, not only do we have the video evidence, we have people who looked him in the face, you have still photographs and obviously many other areas of investigation as they're looking for where component parts of the bombs were made and anyone else who may know something and you wonder as those investigators go into his room, maybe they already have, maybe it's later today, they say to him, look, here's what we got on you. you're not going anywhere, you're not getting out of this. your best option is to cooperate. >> exactly. if he's going to have a case for himself his best bet is to cooperate. there is such a staggering amount of evidence against him, all the way to the bombs they were throwing out of the car. as we look at this public perception and the concern that he won't talk, we have those who
have spoken in this situation and really want to cooperate. we also know that they got into the car and said they admitted to this crime, to this tragedy with a sense of pride, so there's no evidence right now, we have no indication that there's any reason why he would want to keep silent. >> this is a case where the public, you agree with it or not agree with it, public safety exception really is very descriptive. we're talking about is there anybody else out there. >> exactly. as pete williams has talked about, we've got about a 48-hour window typically, and there is a serious public safety threat and we really want to know were they working with anybody. is there other evidence that we can collect at this time to protect the public. >> we've only got a minute left but i want spencer and heather to have one last opportunity. so if you're going into that room, what's the key question that you're asking him?
first one obviously is who else, if anybody, was involved in this. what do you want to know? >> how did you construct the device and how did you learn to construct the device. >> because you think that tells them -- >> that tells them a lot about the level -- if nothing else, even if they're not working with anyone else, the level of ambient sophistication that's out there to build something like this which will be very important in figuring out not just how to find potentially other people, even if they're not related to these brothers, but also how to design counter measures against the bomb that say might come to the united states in the future. >> heather? >> if i'm the investigator, i'm going to say so who that let you down so you're still here, which is focusing on the broader network if there is one but also getting the guy to flip, work with me and then as quickly as possible we start rolling up where did your brother learn this stuff and why the hell didn't they give you an escape plan. basically asking the series of questions spencer asked a few minutes ago, so you have this guy who on the one hand maybe is
proud of what he did, on the other hand certainly never imagined this is where he'd end up. now he can feel like he's important by ratting out whoever should have gotten him out of it and didn't. >> i want to thank all of our guests. please stay with msnbc for continuing coverage with craig melvin. i'm chris jansing, have a great day. i'll see you later. ♪