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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  April 23, 2013 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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wasn't so serious. either way, it's utterly, utterly shameful. they campaigned for austerity, yet when it happens, they cry and complain. priebus, boehner, and cantor, the three musketeers of fiscal hypocrisy. thanks for watching. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. he's talking. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we're starting off tonight with the latest on the boston bombing case. the surviving subject, dzhokhar tsarnaev, remains hospitalized from bullet wounds but authorities say his condition has improved to fair today. authorities also tell nbc news that he has cooperated with them so far. he's told investigators that he and his brother acted alone in
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last week's bombings at the boston marathon, they had no contact with overseas terrorist groups. that's what he said. he said the brothers built the bomb with guidance from an online publication put out by the al qaeda off shoot in yemen called "inspire." it's written in english with instructions on how to build a bomb used last week. tsarnaev told authorities the motive for their attack has to do with their religious fervor, he and his brother, and anger over the united states' wars in afghanistan and iraq. meanwhile told we're seeing new images from that dramatic shooting in watertown at 1:00 a.m. friday morning. they come from an eyewitness whose apartment overlooked the fire fight. the brothers are seen there crouching behind a car. at least one of them seems to be firing. the car on the right is that mercedes suv that was carjacked earlier in the night. in this last photo, by the way, the red circle is, it's reported, highlighting what the eyewitness believes was a pressure cooker bomb. there it is. anyway, there are also two new
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photos today showing dzhokhar earlier in the night at an atm machine allegedly using a debit card from the man he and his brother carjacked to withdraw the cash. i'm joined by michael isikoff. national correspondent for nbc news. michael, thank you for this. we're watching, we're trying to learn, what do you make of this testimony by the -- of the man in fair condition now? the younger brother? is it to be believed? >> reporter: well, it is worth pointing out that it's not actually in his interest to say this. the one option he's got now is to try to figure out a way to avoid the death penalty because the evidence against him is so overwhelming. and the best way to do that would be to tell authorities that there were others involved as part of a deal to save his life. at least that's what any lawyer would tell him. and that's not what he's done. so in many -- in some respects, he's actually hurt himself by saying this. now, that said, it is also worth
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noting that the preliminary review by fbi agents of the cell phones and e-mails of the two brothers does not show, does not appear to show any indication of accomplices or connections to outside terror groups. i should stress this is early in the investigation. there's going to be a lot more digging by the fbi. but at least -- and plus, add to that that no al qaeda groups or no al qaeda-affiliated groups or any international terrorist groups have claimed credit for this bombing which is a bit odd if they were. because generally the whole purpose is to claim the credit and after most of the major terrorists attacks by al qaeda, there was a claim of responsibility. so, look, none of this is positive at this point, but at least so far, and we're early, the indicators do seem to match up that this is looking like a case of self-radicalization. that these brothers were on the
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internet, got inspired by reading "inspire" and other al qaeda and jihadi videos. there's also this prophet -- not prophet, this preacher, faez mohamed who's an awlaki type guy. a preacher who tamerlan tsarnaev in his youtube account posts videos from, so he may have played a role in inspiring these, inspiring them or radicalizing them. but as i said, chris, we're a long way from finishing this investigation. >> so just to use your instincts as an investigative reporter, and you're a good one, the fact he said all this, he denied any connections to any networking. he basically said this was a self-radicalization, in other words. he said that they learned how to build these bombs online. if that turns out not to be true, then he has a bigger risk of the death penalty, is that what you're saying? >> reporter: sure. because then he's got
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cooperating with law enforcement, but he's also lost his leverage by saying this. it is in his interest to be able to tell them something. >> you think a lawyer, michael, would have told him to hold out until he got a deal? >> reporter: absolutely. absolutely. the one thing a lawyer is going to try to do at this point is to save his life. the one way to do that is show cooperation by pointing the finger at somebody else or helping them find somebody else. look, i don't take these statements at face value, just, you know, just to be clear. you know, he could well be protecting somebody. clearly there were others who they were talking to. it's hard to imagine the two of them just simply became radicalized by themselves without any encouragement from anybody else. >> that surprises me, too. >> reporter: seems there was an accomplice in the plot. and also, we have the statements from the uncle who says there
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was somebody who radicalized the older brother. >> so let me thank you very much. >> reporter: that's what we know at this point. right. >> thanks so much, as always. michael isikoff. let's go right now, more on the emerging picture, let's two to wrong roger cressey, former white house counterterrorism official and nbc, of course, news analyst on terrorism. michael mcfadden is the former deputy assistant director at the naval criminal investigative service. he's now a senior vice president at the suffon group. let me ask you both gentlemen, first, roger, then robert. what did you make of that? do you make, when you look at this, do you see two guys, two brothers, amateurs, if you will, self-radicalized, self-experts at bomb making? no plans to escape really, just doing this on their own? not talking about it with other people, no cellmates in terms of a sleeper cell jihadist. >> based on what we know right now, it's unlikely there was a broader security. it's difficult to believe there
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weren't other people in the family or in the community who were not aware of some of the intent that he had. and if the case is they were not, then there's two questions. one, my god, these guys were really good and we have to look at how a self-contained unit could do so well. then the second question is, if the community did know and didn't say anything, why? out of fear, other reasons? important question to ask. >> well, is it believable to you that they build the bomb on their own? >> it's plausible. >> all these bombs. >> it's plausible. it's conceivable. if they built it from scratch, they didn't test it and the first time they detonated one was monday morning, that's an incredible amount of luck involved as well as potential skill. >> we don't know they didn't test, do we? >> we don't. we don't yet. >> and what about the idea of learning jihadism just over the intercom -- not over the intercom, over the internet. >> the "inspire" magazine -- >> does it make you a radical? >> it can radicalize you. anwar al awlaki was a brilliant preacher. he was an american. and so if you were susceptible, he could give you a message and
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it resonates with you then you're off to the races toward radicalization. >> we talked beforehand, i'll let you talk now. is it your hunch what we heard today from the suspect, he's still technically a suspect, dzhokhar, do you believe he's telling the truth in what he said? it may not be the whole story. in what he said. >> he's young. he's not the leader of this two-person cell. i hate to use the word cell. >> why to you hate you use the word cell? >> cell has connotations there was a broader group of individuals involved and could have been here for a long time. these guys were self-radicalized. how they were self-radicalized, toward what end, are the two central questions. >> let me tgo to robert. do you believe they acted alone? do you believe they're capable of building the bomb and becoming radicalized by their lonesome? >> it's completely plausible. a few things to consider, though, and my friend michael isikoff made the point. as an investigative element, very little is going to be taken to face value.
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the process of evaluation and vetting continues. it's great to hear the degree of cooperation, the rapport the interviewers have with the young man. again, what he says is going to be bounced off cell phone records, other records, intelligence databases to make sure that it is the truth. then if some things aren't the truth, from an interrogator's standpoint, that can be good, too, to open up that door and find out what we have here. now, as far as the doing it on their own, some things to consider, has been spoken about. over the internet and other places, you have a very potent message of charismatic fire and brimstone message of violence and death. whether faez mohammed, or a chechen preacher of the same ilk. bin laden, himself, is a very, very potent message for young guys who are susceptible and vulnerable to that and essentially self-recruits. back to the main question, chris. is it plausible? i think so. we've seen it before. if you take major nidal hasan,
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for example, identified with the group ideology but he -- >> explain mote i, then, why would you go hang out with your buddies at the dorm at umass/dartmouth tuesday night. look like those people you killed on monday and shot the legs off. why would you shoot the legs off total strangers then hang out with a bunch of buddies and act like an all-american acguy? how do you hate generally americans and like generally americans and kill a bunch of them? i don't get it. >> this is an absolutely apt question. in light of this tragedy, in perverse ways, it's absolutely fascina fascinating. you've seen some of the photographs released today, for example, going to the atm. and the comportment after the event, there's some ice in that blood. but what's going to be key though, here, too, the brother, in the timeline over the last six months up until he took that constructive act to go from thinking about it to actually
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doing it, and the relationship with his younger brother. how much he pulled him along. what was really the younger brother has to say about motivation. because those are the kind of things help us understand how this tragedy came about. indicators for the future. >> you know, we've heard stories about the 9/11, the guys who took over the planes flying into the world trade center, screeching with joy over allah, they're going to paradise, nirvana. in all the days we tried to fig wrur out those pictures before we found out who the guys were, i saw the younger guy strutting down that street. he was a hot dog. he was enjoying that. whatever he was doing, it wasn't sweating, it wasn't feeling guilty. he was strutting. i just think -- i don't see anything that suggests in any kind of tempering conscience. >> it's totally cold-blooded. the fact they both reintegrated into their prior lives after the attacks is jaw dropping. the psychological profile on dzhokhar is going to be fascinating. chris, there are two other
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pieces here. one is self-radicalization, we can understand that. what happened in russia is going to be critical for tamerlan. the second part is the internal family dynamic here. the role of the mother, how other members of the family saw what was happening and what they did -- >> the mother denies everything. >> well, she does. she also based on what we've seen from interviews was very, very devout and went on an extremist approach toward religion and toward the united states. clearly the relationship with her and tamerlan, the older brother, was important. and we're going to need to delve into that. >> you think she was an american hater? >> you know -- >> to use common sense here. if you're going to kill a bunch of people, you probably hate them. >> i'm not saying she was involved in the conspiracy, chris. based on what she said in her public statements, she played a fascinating role in influencing her, at least her older son, and possibly her younger son. that, we have to be careful here, but what i've seen she's said publicly is pretty disturbing. >> okay. thank you so much, gentlemen. this is tricky. we are operating in the dark here. we do have a confession now, a lot of confessions coming out of this young guy. roger cressey, thank you.
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robert mcfadden. coming up, we're learning new details about the wife of the older brother, tamerlan. her name is catherine russell. she converted to islam to marry him. investigators want to know what she would have known about what her husband was up to. and later, how people concerned about abortion rights are reacting to the horrific murder trial of a doctor up in philadelphia that's going on right now. plus, a new poll shows mark sanford in real trouble. and steve colbert's sister looking pretty good. she's the sister, of course, of the comedian. she's opened up a nine-point lead as of today over sanford. with just two weeks to go before the special election down in charleston. is sanford nearing the end of his appalachian trail or comeback trail? we'll see. finally, another republican elected official uses an ethnic slur to make a point. wait until you hear what that guy said. it that's not bad, wait until you hear his apology. this is "hardball." the place for politics. ♪ it's about where you're going.
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boylston street up in boston is re-opened to residents and businesses. there they are. that's the street where the boston marathon ends. that is the finish line where the bombs went off eight days ago. here in washington, pennsylvania avenue in front of the white house re-opened to pedestrian traffic. it was closed to pedestrians after monday's attacks. it's been closed to cars by the way since the oklahoma city bombing. again, the price of terrorism. we'll be right back after this.
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welcome back to "hardball." alleged marathon bomber dzhokhar tsarnaev is upgraded in fair condition now. he's in fair condition. he was in serious. today at a boston hospital. while the investigation continues into what motivated his attack last week. in a moment we're going to find out what investigators are learning about the wife of tamerlan, that's his older brother. right now, let's go to the information from wnbc's chief investigative reporter jonathan
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d dienst. the survivor, being out there all alone. two brothers operating alone, technically, and also apparently ideologically. they were picking up their radicalization over the internet. not through any coaching or role of anybody as a sort of a recruiter. >> well, that is the claim that investigators say is being made by the wounded younger brother who continues to recover in the hospital. investigators are now running around, as you heard, they're trying to verify that. they are checking with all of the relatives. you've got the wife, you've got two sisters in new jersey. the parents overseas. you've got russian intelligence. you've got -- they're tracking their cell phones. as of now, nothing to indicate, bull but, again, it's earliy on for them to do a deep dive to find out if there are any connection to any others, whether there's a bomb maker or a trainer or some sort of jihadist who may have influenced them. unclear. but as of now, one senior official continues to tell us lone wolf killers.
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that's how he is describing them until proven otherwise. that's the best information they have at this time. >> lobe and leopold here, two brothers who are completely isolated immorally and emotionally from all those around them. i go back to my question, maybe it's too naive, but how do you kill a whole bunch of people, blow their legs off with a sort of zip in your step as we see in these tapes and then go back to the university dorm where you hung out, the university of mass at dartmouth and hang out with your buds who are of the same crowd of the people you just destroyed? where's the hatred in all that that's consistent? >> right, well, the hatred appears to be coming from the al qaeda-inspired videos they were apparently watching. "inspire" magazine. the brother's apparently growing radicalization and anger of u.s. involvement overseas. you heard some reporting by mike
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isikoff about the outbursts in the community mosque up there and there were some signals, but clearly nothing that, you know, rose to the level of law enforcement or to his relatives. at least that's so far what we're hearing. not the wife. not the sisters. apparently not the parents who continue, at least the mom continues to even deny that her sons are even linked to this. >> is there a lot of that borderline jihadism where people may voice the words? i know that's true in other parts of our life where people talk a good talk but don't do anything. they may have the anger of a jihadist. may be mad at the west for our position in the middle east, for example, to some extent fairly familiar. we're too pro-israeli, too pro-western, we exploit their oil. all the arguments they can make. people can talk about those things. discuss them. the anger level. is there a lot of it in the islamic communities in this country that you would just pass over -- what i'm getting back to, what was said earlier tonight by roger. if you hear a person has been thrown out of a couple mosques
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because he was over the top in his hatred to the united states and call for action, are there so many of those people that you don't report them? >> well, look, first of all about how widespread, look, i think the vast, vast overall majority of muslim-americans in this country love this country. >> yeah, sure. what about the ones screaming, the ones, the cases -- >> we've had examples in the city, the muslim thinkers society, radical beliefs, they're out protesting and voicing support for the islamic movement. wanting an islamic flag over the white house. so we've seen some of those types of vocal demonstrations, but there's freedom of speech in this country. >> i know. >> as we've heard, the fbi, you know, was tipped off by russian intelligence back in 2011 but had not much to go on other than a claim, hey, this guy has radical thoughts out there and you need to follow up on him. they did and checked his computers. they checked his phones. they interviewed him and didn't come up with anything at that time. we're told they found nothing that indicated that he's linked to terror. you know, having some bad thoughts is not, you know, a
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crime. >> look, i'm a civil libertarian. i'm just trying to find out some basis of understanding the pull from which the -- because i've been hearing for the last week or so there's so many of these cases you can't follow up on them all. that's sort of offered as a defense of the fbi. you can't just -- what they had from the russians notifying them. that wasn't enough to really keep this guy on an active watch list. the older brother. >> i think there is a resource question and in terms of how broad you want to go. look what's gone on in britain and in london and how overtaxed the intelligence services are there after the 07/07 attacks and the number of radical individuals that they need to try to keep tabs on. it is problematic. it is a concern. again, it is a very small minority amid these populations, certainly in britain and in the u.s., but it is certainly something that continues to be a concern. >> okay. great having you on, jonathan dienst, for joining us. we're learning new details
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tonight about the wife of the oler tsarnaev brother, tamerlan. her name is catherine russell l. she converted to islam and married tamerlan living in the family home with her daughter, their daughter, while working 80-hour weeks as a home health aide. she had a tough job. katie is a reporter for the "associated press" covering this story of catherine tsarnaev. this is a fascinating story of a woman who's a real worker. i mean, what a tough job taking care of people at home. bathing them, perhaps an older person they're taking care of. brutal in terms of the commitment of effort and emotions. is it feasible, in your r reporting, that she just didn't know what her husband was up to? >> well, it's unclear. the federal authorities have asked to interview her. catherine's lawyer said today she's doing everything she can to assist the federal authorities, but he will not confirm or deny whether or not she's actually spoken with them. >> yeah. what do we know about her? we know she's -- there she is. she's a convert to islam. fair enough. legal enough. fine enough. the question is, was she that submissive? i mean, people keep telling me,
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a muslim woman lives in a world in which the husband does what he feels like and doesn't have to answer to her for his movements. she's working hard, working her butt off. 80 hours a week. he's not doing anything to make any money and she doesn't have the right in her home to ask the guy, what are you upg? >> well, it's unclear at this point. what we do know about her she's from north kingstown, rhode island. she went to suffolk university in 2007. she dropped out in fall of -- in excuse me, spring of 2010, and they got married in june of 2010. they met at a nightclub and, you know, they both -- she at a certain point converted to islam. >> yeah. there's a nice p pick up an islamic religion, right? in a nightclub. that is so strange. all this is strange. do we know what her relationship was with the other brother? did they know each other? the sister-in-law and brother-in-l brother-in-law?
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>> the brother-in-law apparently spent most of his time at college, so it is unclear at this point what their relationship was. >> now, what's the fbi -- is sense ny way of knowing what of smell about her? when so many of these cases i've watched through history where somebody does something, of a submersive nature, and the spouse does get targeted for the investigation -- and sometimes incriminated, is there any sense in the behavior of the authorities what their view is of her role of innocence or guilt here? >> you know, like i said earlier, you know, they're asking to interview her. they obviously want to talo her. she was married to him. her lawyer says she is cooperating. as to whether or not they've actually spoken or not, it's unclear. they do obviously want to talk to her. >> i'm waiting to see a report when we find out. that's big news when they sbe t interrogate her. coming up, another day, another republican with an offensive ethnic slur. these guys live in isolation booths. wait physical you hear the guy's apology. it's lame brain. i don't know if it's evil or
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ha! back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. first up, what is former president bill clinton have no common with tv shows like "the new normal," "days of our lives" and american horror story "asylum"? those shows were all honored at this year's glaad media awards. well, actress jennifer lawrence presented the advocate for change award to former president clinton and had a suffering of a slight stumble there. >> we are happy to present glaas's advocate for change award to president gli -- bill
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clinton. of all the things to mess up. his name. >> well, i don't think she lost any fans there, do you? probably picked some up. the moment that defined rick per perry's 2012 republican primary experience comes back to bite yet again. >> the third agency of government i would do away with, the education -- the -- commerce. and let's see. >> oh, my. >> i can't. the third one, i can't. sorry. oops. >> well, the texas governor held some events in chicago this week to try and convince business leaders up there to relocate to texas. chicago mayor rahm emanuel's welcome message was a reminder of that debate performance. "i hope when he comes he remembers all three of his reasons because it will be a rell test for that guy." it's been a month since alaska congressman don king referred to latinos as wetbacks.
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here's republican dennis johnson, oklahoma statehouse republican leader, talking about running a small business. >> such a thing called niche marketing. what you do, you find out what you do better than somebody else and that's what you market. then you get the reward of success. people come back to you. they like what you do. they like the service they get. and they don't ask me. they might try to chew me down on a price. that's fine. >> that was right in the chamber there of the assembly. the state governing body. right in the chamber he said that. if you were put off by that, however, catch this guy's apology. >> sir? did i? all right. i apologize to the jews. they're good small businessmen as well. >> wow. i don't know what i have to say about that. i think some people live in political isolation booths. i'll put it at that.
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i'm amanda drury with your cnbc market wrap. stocks recover after a false tweet about terrorism which sent the dow down by triple digits. it did bounce back to finish up by 152 points. the s&p as you can see gaining. 16 points. the nasdaq adding 35. apple shares are higher after hours, revenue and profits came in better than expected. however, the guidance was disappointing. also bullish news on housing did help stocks today. new home sales rose 1.5% in march. reversing a steep decline in february. that is it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. back to "hardball."
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welcome back to "hardball." in philadelphia, right now, the trial of an abortion doctor charged with the murder of babies, the prosecutorors say we born alive, is generating national headlines. of course, it was page 1 of today's "usa today" with the headline "gruesome testimony renews debate over abortion." i'm not sure about that, but it is is gruesome testimony. a grand jury report released in 2011 called the clinic a house of horrors. the bottom line remains this is a murder case. originally dr. kirmet was charged with seven counts of first-degree murder for killing babies that were allegedly born alive and viable. a judge threw out three of the seven murder charges. the judge did not explain his reasoning. reports indicated he did not hear sufficient evidence the three babies he took out were born viable then killed.
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goss is now charged with third-degree murder in the 2009 death of an abortion patient. he's accused of overdosing during the procedure. prosecutors are seeking the death penalty in the death of the infants. joining me is radio talk show host, msnbc contributor michael smerconish, and alice hogue. i want to put a couple things in perspective, michael. you were a lawyer from pennsylvania. you know this stuff and know this case. ever since 1976 in pennsylvania, we've only had three executions for murder one. so this is a unique case, the fact we're even talking about it. michael, put it in that perspective. the fact we're already talking about capital punishment in this case. >> well, the important thing to keep in mind is that in pennsylvania, we have the death penalty on the books, but we don't really mean it. in those three instances, the only three cases where a death sentence has been carried out, even of those defendants, they asked for it. they waved the white flag and said bring on that punishment. so it exists but really it's a fiction. still, chris, i don't need to
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tell you how significant it is that a medical practitioner would be facing at least at the outset of the trial seven counts of first-degree murder. first-degree murder meaning that the prosecution is saying with malice aforethought, he intended to kill viable babies and as you point out, three of those were now tossed by the judge who didn't explain his rationale but presumably because he believed the prosecution had not met its burden and so just as the defense is getting under way, he removed those elements from the jury's consideration. >> these were abortions which resulted in a baby being born alive and then killed. it wasn't like they died on the gurney. they were killed by what procedure, it was with a knife, right? the allegation, michael? >> that's according to the prosecution now. the prosecution says that the spines were actually snipped. now, at least -- and that's, yuan, it's the most heinous
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grisly of testimony you can imagine. that's what the prosecution maintains. why else would the spines have been snipped except to kill those babies upon delivery? the defense says that's not true, there were not sufficient signs of life. these babies were not born alive. and at least with regard to three of the seven counts, they convinced the judge to pull that from the case. >> what do you make of this guy, without getting into the legal -- well, it is the legal aspects. the question of this very late-term abortion here. i understand roe v. wade. the third trimester requires a real condition of concern of the health of the mother. this guy, based upon what i've seen, would not be the one you'd rely on for judgment of any quality. this guy was involved in late-term abortions. according to allegations he was running a lousy place. >> there's no one more outraged about this than me, personally. our organization works every single day to make sure women
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are not victimized by this doctor, if you can even call him a doctor as his allegations come to life. what we need is safe and legal access to medical care for women seeking abortion. this is not what was happening. as you say, if the allegations prove true, this guy was operating illegally by every state books, by the federal law. he was not operating legally. the thing that has allowed the people like dr. goss, now to continue, is unnecessary restrictions on women going to the safe clinics, with reputable medical care. that's what we stand for. >> there's also supreme court ordered third trimester restrictions which are legitimate restrictions. >> absolutely. it's important for your viewers to know, chris, these later term abortions as we call them, are less than 1%. >> no, 18,000 a year. i did the math. you can do the percentages. 18,000 is not an insignificant number. >> it's not an insignificant number. when you look at the women seeking this kind of care, it is an extremely small portion of
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them. it is among the most difficult decisions that women face. >> apparently not for him. >> not for him but for the women. these are women who -- nobody is six months pregnant and all of a sudden changes their mind. right? in the vast majority of these cases. >> one of these babies who was born, let's be careful here, was 19 inches long. >> in many of these cases these are women who intended to have these pregnancies, wanted to carry the babies to term. there is a significant medical reason that they were termina terminating this pregnancy. >> michael, you have a great new show on sirius xm. i was over there. what an operation, by the way. give me a sense of how people are reacting on both sides of the fight. you have a tremendous audience among the suburbs which tends to be pro-choice. this is something that gets to you. everybody in our office, producers, mostly women, are appalled at this. they can't read these articles, it's so tough. i had a hard time reading them. it's beyond belief there was something going on like this, without getting into the
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testimony questions. if it's even like this at all, it's horrible. your thoughts. what are people saying? >> i think you just put your finger on something -- well, everybody is approaching this, frankly, to suit their own objectives. you know, the arguments from both ends of the political spectrum, they see which element of this they think suits their particular goal, and they're all alleging bias in terms of the way in which it's being covered, to which i respond, the only bias that would be proper in this case is somehow a bias toward governmental ineptitude, because at its core when you get beyond the grisly facts, if you can, there were any number of state agencies, chris, that should have shut this guy down more than a decade ago and they didn't. and that's deserving of some real circumspection. it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. he has a very street smart philly guy lawyer, jack mcman is his name. he's a former prosecutor. and gosnell who i once sued
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successfully, it will be interesting if he takes the stand because on a personal level, and believe me, i'm not defending him nor his conduct, but he will not come across as the frankenstein that all of this evidence suggests. >> well, that doesn't mean he isn't. let me ask you this about -- we've argued this. we're pro-choice in many ways. in fact, we talk a lot about it in that vain. you have states where they really shut down on opportunity for a woman to have a real choice. she has to drive to another state. a young girl has to drive to another state. here we have a case where states like the dakotas or places where it's really hard to get a clinic. and here you have a clinic operating like whatever. without getting into, you know, incriminating it, but it seems terrible. so we have states that are too sloppy that don't regulate at all then we have states that regulate to death. >> yeah, i think -- >> isn't that true? it looks like it. >> i agree with michael, this is not a problem of regulation. it was a problem of enforcement in pennsylvania. but it's important to understand, they were all pro-choice. america gave pennsylvania an "f"
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because they put up road block after road block year after year. >> regulation being too strong and enforcement being too weak. >> we believe women's needs are served when abortion is regulated like any other medical procedure. they need to be saved, performed by reputable clinicians and need to be clean. none of these things were happening. >> i'm with hillary clinton, safe, legal and rare. michael smerconish, good luck with the program you're on know. sirius xm. ilyse hogue, thanks for joining us. up next, mark sanford's political comeback. this is a little bit of a hoot. god knows what this guy is up to. two weeks before the speshld election coming up quickly in south carolina, sanford trails, believe it, in south carolina, elizabeth colbert bush. stephen colbert's sister. he's nine weeks down. i don't think he's going to get too close to this victory. anyway, you're watching "hardball." the place for politics. [ moaning ]
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by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. senator max baucus of montana is the latest democrat to announce he's not running for reelection. baucus made the announcements this morning. now the democrats will have an uphill battle certainly to keep the red state seat. baucus is the eighth senator and sixth democrat to call it quits this cycle. following iowa's tom harkin, tim johnson of south dakota, jay rockefeller of west virginia. michigan's carl levin. new jersey's frank lautenberg. saxby chambliss of georgia. mike johans of any nebraska.
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without her permission. sanford took an unusual approach to that, pleading with voters in this full-page ad in a charleston newspaper. he writes "it's been a rough week. though we may be public figures, we are still human beings. human figures who struggle just as to many other families and s many other families and divorced couples do and getting childbearing right as best we can. that was harm warming and wholesome. mikeal steele is former chair of the rnc. sign the cynthia tucker. cynthia, were you taken with that heartwarming message? i know his wife can be quite a disciplinarian from what i can tell. fair enough. him sneaking out the back door of the home he's not supposed to visit with a cell phone flashlight. it would seem typical of her, she just happens to walk in just as he's going out and catches him in the act of trespassing.
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it just seems to me just according to form here with this relationship. your thoughts? you may be taking a side. i'm trying to enjoy the humor of the thing. >> taking a side? hardly. >> i'm enjoying it. let's put it that way. >> what an idiot. his excuse was, he didn't want his 14-year-old son to have to watch the last half of the super bowl by himself. he didn't say, i was worried my son was home alone and i decided to take him to my place. no. apparently, jenny sanford has a bigger big screen tv than he does. >> he couldn't lure him over to his house. >> exactly. >> couldn't lure him over to his place. >> no, no. >> what did you make of this michael? do you want to take for the defense of the husband here? >> there is no side here to take, actually. this is just one of those silly thing that's being played out politically that the people of south carolina right now are just appoplectic about.
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how could we give the democrats a seat after nearly 20-something years? >> why did the national republican campaign committee yank money? >> they saw the wheels coming off. his wife coming out and saying you're in violation of our divorce agreement here. he's clearly scared to death of his wife how he's sneaking around the house. >> it's amazing we make judgments. cynthia, you may not enjoy this. when i watch people on television i do sort of make a judgment about them. this guy's not to be relied upon. she's no fun because she's really catching him in the act all the time. >> all the time. >> she catches him and it's just one thing -- >> you can't help but get caught, mr. sanford. >> he was on the appalachian trail when he wasn't supposed to be. now he's in the house when he's not supposed to be. isn't he in love with somebody else? isn't he supposed to be with her? >> he has his fiancee. they're out there, you know, as a couple publicly. again, you're talking about a campaign for the united states congress. and so there's a political decision that's being made, i think it's reflected in these poms.
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republicans in this republican district are pretty much content to say, we'll give colbert busch the seat. >> let's go to that. i got a closing comment about this tonight which i work on because i really believe in. i knew a lot of people in congress, sin kncynthia and mic you know them, too, who had the nerve to run in a race they couldn't possibly win. something like watergate happens. they're in for life. tom foley. jim howard of new jersey. these guys and women have the guts to run an impossible -- that's what's so inspiring about it. she could be a congresswoman for life in the wrong district. in other words, politically she's probably too moderate. your thoughts? >> one of the reasons the republican campaign committee must be just tearing its hair out is that this was another race that republicans have essentially given away because they have a bad candidate. it's like todd akin in missouri.
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these are races republicans should have won. but they have bad candidates. at first the campaign committee was going to go ahead with it, give mark sanford money. he's at least well known. he served as governor twice. he's got the politics that seem to fit that district. but he's also an idiot. and let me say this in his wife's defense. remember that mark sanford came to her to ask her to run his campaign this time around. after publicly humiliating her with another woman. so for all of his alleged political genius, she may have been the real brains behind his campaign successes in the past. >> cynthia, you hit on, i think, the key point there about the genius of this operation. i think that's something a lot of republicans have recognized right out of the box. at the end of the day, republican voters in the primary voted for him twice. not once, but twice. >> in the runoff.
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>> in the runoff. first primary then the runoff. >> will they do it again despite all this nonsense? >> from what i'm hearing on the ground in south carolina -- >> will they vote for the woman candidate, the democrat? >> they either won't vote which will be like voting for ms. colbert busch or they will cross that aisle and vote for her. i think this poll again is very troublesome -- >> a lot of people tell me women are unlikely to vote for this character. just a thought there. i think cynthia probably agrees with that. >> yes. >> anyway, michael steele, cynthia tucker, next time we'll bring you in for something serious. we'll be right back after this. . to fight chronic low back pain. to take action. to take the next step. today, you will know you did something for your pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a pain reliever fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior
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let me finish tonight with this. i love this race in south carolina. he was a woman, elizabeth colbert busch who took a chance entering the race for congress where democrats like her don't stand a chance. not a chance in the world. she did so knowing she would have to face a former governor, mark sanford, someone who had once represented the same district in congress. it's the long road that has no turning. suddenly we've got a new poll showing colbert busch up nine points on sanford. the race no democrat could win is now a race where the democrat could be hard to catch. it makes a point i learned working for speaker tip o'neill all those years. i met a number of members who won seats deemed impossible. tom foley of spokane won in 1974 wlen a door opened on change, when suddenly the old rules didn't apply and anything was possible. joe biden won in '72, the year
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