tv Lockup MSNBC July 4, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. >> he grabbed the broom. i took it from here. >> an inmate with a reputation for trouble takes on a no nonsense warden. >> i run this jail. you gave me the right. >> it's very rare that you see an older person came into a facility. when she first came into my area, she looked like she was a grandmother figure. >> a 71-year-old woman is
convicted for an investment scheme that left nearly 800 victims in its wake. >> they, in my eyes, were not victims, but they were lenders to me. >> identical twins segregated in separate housing units find they can't live with or without each other. >> it hurts, you know? i'm almost in tears talking about it because we really are very, very close. very close. and -- ♪ cleveland, ohio is a city that's seen its ups and downs, and like all big cities crime is an issue in good times and bad. and if you're arrested in cleveland, you could spend anywhere from a few hours to several years inside the cuyahoga county corrections
center. most of the 2,200 men and women incarcerated here have only been charged with crimes and are awaiting trial for the resolution of their cases. some say the jail is a city unto itself, but its director would disagree. >> well, i don't think this is a little city. i don't think there's a city like this in the real world only because we have a large volume of very difficult people. >> everyone else put your hands up on your head. >> people with a lot of troubles and a lot of needs. >> according to correctional staff, inmate charles evans fits that description. >> i'm charles now, but they used to call me animal. i've been coming here since 1994. i used to be a big-time drug dealer, all this and that. everybody in this building knows who i am. >> evans is currently serving a
six-month sentence for theft, but during his stay he's managed to make matters a whole lot worse. >> this is all of his disciplinary isolation that we've gone through since he's been here not even a year yet. >> he's been involved in 13 altercations that have landed him in segregation for more than 90 days. >> charles evans is very unpredictable, he's disruptive he's in lockup he's out of lockup. you're dealing with him constantly. one day he's acting out, the next day he's apologizing, then he's acting out again. so, he's up and down. >> you put chains on a man and do what you want to do to him. when chains come off, a man's going to react. that's just like backing a cat into a corner. >> two months earlier, during a fight with another inmate evans put one of the jail's special response team members on the sidelines. >> inmate evans was on top of another inmate during an altercation with a broom stick around his neck. at this time he ordered both inmates to stop.
they refused to do so. at this time, corporal brewer deployed. >> i was on the ground got sprayed. they handcuffed me put me up on the wall. >> then he started saying to me i told you i was going to get one of them mother [ bleep ]. i told him calm down it's over. >> i turned around told him shut the [ bleep ] up talking to me. >> at this time he came off the wall with his left shoulder shouldered me. >> next thing i know he's grabbing from behind to snatch me down. i fell then he fell. >> and i landed up on my wrist, and at that time after the sergeant came in to export me to the hospital, we later found out it was broken. >> officer may's future would include several weeks of desk duty. evendz evans was immediately placed in segregation. a short time later, he complained of an injured shoulder. when they came to transport him to medical, evans was upset for being blamed for the fight with the other inmate.
>> why am i here and not the person i was fighting? the whole posse. >> when i got there, you had the broom around his neck. >> no, i didn't have the broom around his neck. the broom was on the floor. he fell on it. he grabbed the broom. i took it from him. the whole pod seen that. i can't wait to go in front of mcintyre with this. [ laughter ] >> evans was not laughing for long. due to be released from jail in just eight days he was charged with a new crime, felonious assault against officer may, and his stay at cuyahoga county was extended. he must remain in jail until the new charge is resolved in court. evans pled not guilty but if convicted, he could be sentenced to eight years in prison. other inmates, like perry mckinney and his identical twin brother, herbie mckinney, don't get into much trouble in jail but present a different security issue. >> and it does create a security problem for us and especially
if we have them housed in the same area because of course it will be difficult to identify who they are you know? they could be switching off. and it could even get to the point if one of them was going to be released and they can switch identities and things like that. >> someone might get the wrong impression. >> and switching identities to fool law enforcement is in the mckinney brothers' playbook as perry explains. >> he got a dui, he used my name. he was on probation, so i took it. so, i ended up taking the dui for him. so, the first dui i ever got, i really didn't get. >> they're like, you know what's your name? and i'm like my name's perry mckinney. you know it's funny, because they took pictures of my tattoo and it says "herbie" on the right there and i signed the paper. i started signing it herbie and messed up and put perry.
it's funny because he went to court like three weeks later for it. >> my brother was like honestly, judge, i don't remember any of this. he said i can't believe i'm even here. >> not long after, perry found himself in trouble with police and decided it was time for payback. >> and i was pretty intoxicated, and i used my brother's name and social security number, which worked as well. so i got him back and i got pulled over on our birthday. so, i got him good. happy birthday. >> while the brothers can laugh over their exploits with drugs and alcohol, they're also aware of the costs. between them they have had dozens of arrests and jail stays, and each has done time in prison. and perry, who is currently charged with felonious assault to which he has pled not guilty has lost more than time. >> with my drinking and everything and my drug use, i've lost my children i lost my
life i've lost my wife that i am that weak. and you know my love for my children is i mean is amazing, but obviously, i didn't love them enough to stop and that's what's sickening about it. >> herbie's addictions have also caused problems at home. he has pled not guilty to a charge of domestic violence against one of the mothers of his two daughters. he says he did not physically harm her but got high after an argument and did other damage. >> i poord every kind of liquid i had on the bed, smashed the tv. you know what else? oh, yeah yeah she loves coffee so i broke the damn coffee pot. i knew the first thing she wanted to do was come home and have some coffee so i had to ruin that for her. >> both brothers say their bond is unbreakable, but their addictions feed off of each other. >> when one of us is having a bad day, we call each other to lean on and instead of leaning on either i'm already using or
he's already using. we have never been sober at the same damn time. i think we both have to be sober and be willing to change our lives for the better. if not, then, i mean, as hard as it is, we have to be apart. coming up -- >> i'm in handcuffs and y'all told me i broke somebody's arm? >> so how does that work? that goes where? who makes that decision? >> i don't have any type of -- >> who makes that decision? >> charles evans and the warden try to work out their differences. and a 71-year-old woman is convicted of a $60 million crime. >> what i did was not a ponzi scheme. bernie madoff was a ponzi scheme. except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends. asthma doesn't affect my job... you missed the meeting again last week! it doesn't affect my family. your coughing woke me up again. i wish you'd take me to the park. i don't use my rescue inhaler a lot... depends on what you mean by a lot. coping with asthma isn't controlling
look at them kids... they have no idea what it was like before u-verse high speed internet. yeah, you couldn't just stream movies to a device like that. one time, i had to wait half a day to watch a movie. you watched movies?! i was lucky if i could watch a show. show?! man, i was happy to see a sneezing panda clip! trevor, have you eaten today? you sound a little grumpy. [ laughter ] [
male announcer ] connect all your wi-fi-enabled devices with u-verse high speed internet. rethink possible. 11 stories tall occupying half a city block in downtown cleveland, the cuyahoga county corrections center houses 2,200 men and women who present a wide range of security issues. some like charles evans -- >> i didn't put no broom around his head. the broom was on the floor. he fell on it. >> -- present more issues than most. >> a person of interest that i
want to talk a little bit about whose familiar name to all of us is mr. charles evans. mr. evans was placed in lockup had done extensive lockup time for an assault on officer may. he was released from lockup, went down to public and he got into a verbal altercation with an inmate that led to also some verbal confrontation with staff. he was placed down in lockup. he's saying once again that he's in fear for his life. >> we went through this before with inmate placed him in pc, acquiesced just about every request he's made and have placed him throughout this facility. he's been a problem since literally the day he came in wp we'll do what we have to do and document it, but this guy's going to be a pain until he comes out. >> later that day, they pay him to talk about what happened. >> you've got to tell me what
happened. >> i was standing right next to him, warden. the man is hopping and hollering. he tells the lockup keys don't belong on this is floor. >> hold on corporal keys is a supervisor. he can be on any floor in this jail cell. let's get that straight. >> yes, sir. i'm in lockup with the same man arguing with me still on the pod. >> how do you know that? >> word of mouth. >> word of mouth from who? you been there? you talked to somebody down there. >> he's still there. >> i'm not going to debate that with you because i'm not going to check it because the decision was made by sergeant about the incident -- >> every day it's something with y'all -- every day i'm having problems. >> and i get something -- >> it's every day. i don't think you know what i'm going through. i've got three to four -- >> let me ask you, why are you still in jail? >> because i'll come up with a fake or felonious assault and i'm in handcuffs and you'll tell me i broke somebody's arm? >> so how does that work? who makes that decision? >> i don't have no type --
>> who makes that decision? >> i told you don't put me in population. you put me right back in population and i'm back here. i actually told you, i fear for my life. >> you don't dictate whethero guo to population because that's my choice to make. >> my life is your choice. you're just the warden. my life is more important than you being a warden. >> can i ask you this? are we going to talk or am i going to be done? >> can you get me -- >> i'm going to keep you right here in this room -- >> you can't keep me locked up. >> if you're fearing for your life. okay, thank you. i got you. >> i fear for my life. >> i understand that you're in fear for your life. >> make sure can you please do something now? >> i'm going to do something that i think is appropriate. >> you think is appropriate. >> exactly. >> who gives you the right? you're not a doctor. >> i run this jail so i give me the right. is something physically wrong with you? what am i supposed to do? >> i'm in fear for my life. >> you're supposed to make sure i'm okay. >> you're going to be okay
locked behind the door. at this time he's claiming he's fearing for his life but this is something he brings up each time he goes into isolation, trying to dictate his placement, which i won't allow him to dictate that. have a seat. i'll make that decision, as i told him. i'll take into consideration what's going on and i will make the final decision what's going to happen with his placement. >> there are 70 different housing units inside the cuyahoga county corrections center. 59 are dedicated to male inmates. 11 are for the jail's population of 265 female inmates. >> the charges that i see most often with females, they're related to drugs, forgery, bad checks or theft, a lot of shoplifting. i think the average inmate age is between 20 and 25. >> that's what makes joanne snyder at age 71 with no prior record anything but the typical
inmate. >> it's the sound you don't forget, the steel door slamming shut. this is my home. >> it's very rare that you see an older person come into a facility. she looks like your average mom out there. that's -- when she first came into my area she looked like she was a grandmother figure. >> my bed is concrete. and we have a mattress on here but the mattress is approximately this thick, but when you lay your body weight on it it compresses down to like i call it an exercise mat. but this concrete never gives. most people look at me as being old and vulnerable, like i'll get one over on her because she's an old lady. but i tell them don't let this
gray hair fool you. but i'm kind to everybody, and most people don't understand that here. they come here they're used to being in a crack house or living in a box under a bridge somewhere, and they don't understand the kindness i give them. >> but many of schneider's 780 victims believe she dished out anything but kindness to them. >> ms. schneider irks, i want you on the wall, please. put your hands on the wall. i'll pat you down real quick, make sure you don't have anything on you. >> schneider was convicted on a collection of charges, including securities fraud. authorities say she ran a ponzi scheme that netted $60 million from hundreds of investors, including close friends and family. >> what i did was not a ponzi scheme. bernie madoff was a ponzi scheme. he took people's money and he spent it on himself.
i invested all of it in real estate. >> lead the way. >> yes. >> schneider's real estate plan involved developing a retail and entertainment center in a cleveland suburb. the center was never built and only $10.5 million of the $60 million schneider raised was ever recovered. >> they in my eyes were not victims, but they were lenders to me. i borrowed money from them. they may call themselves victims, but i made them a lot of money, and they know that. i lived a very good lifestyle and i'm not ashamed to say it. i went on to create 15 corporations. i had a vineyard three wineries, apartment buildings, office buildings, restaurants, everything that you could imagine you would want to have in your portfolio. >> schneider chose to plead guilty to 11 felony charges, rather than face the possibility of a longer sentence, if convicted at trial. >> i'm 71 and with the possibility of getting 30 years
or more why would i do that? why would i do that? >> schneider received a three-year sentence and was sent to state prison. she was returned to cuyahoga county when prosecutors in a rare circumstance successfully appealed the sentence for being too light. they were asking for ten years. the judge resentenced her to nine. she is now awaiting transfer back to prison. >> it's unbelievable to me. i don't think i'll ever get over this because i know i'm innocent. i can face anybody and say that. coming up an inmate with a court order restricting his phone calls gets some help from another inmate known for skirting the rules. and -- >> i got herbs daily. i run a store here. if guys need something, they run out there in the week. >> herbie mckinney makes a profit through his jailhouse hussles. >> you've got to find a hustle when you're in here, got to.
most inmates inside cleveland's cuyahoga county corrections center have the right to make calls from the phone located in each housing unit. >> they get to make them in three separate ways. one can be a collect call. the second could be if they had a prepaid phone call which they can buy from commissary. the third way is if a family member sets up a prepaid account, then the money is deducted from their credit card to make the calls. >> but for melvin currently housed in the jail's segregation unit, phone calls are restricted due to a court order. >> you understand that right? >> mm-hmm. >> all right, right in front of you. >> okay. >> go ahead. >> he is only allowed to call his attorney. while all inmate calls are recorded, sastre's calls must also be made in the presence of staff to make sure he's only talking to his attorney. >> we've been with him for months now, so he's a known trouble maker. >> he was arrested on charges of stalking and violating a protection order filed by the mother of his 2-year-old son.
he's pled not guilty. he's in segregation for having placed two more calls to his alleged victim when he was in general population. now, it appears that he has found a new way of getting around the calling restrictions by getting another segregation inmate to make his calls for him. that inmate is charles evans. >> evans is calling some woman for saustre and telling her to call saustre's mother and tell her not to come visit because he's still in lockup. >> by monitoring calls from the unit investigators determined that evans placed the calls using saustre's prepaid phone call. >> this call may be monitored. i have a prepaid call from -- >> charles. >> evans would then give the aunt messages to share with other friends and relatives. >> hey, i'm calling for melvin. he said call his mother and tell her not to come and visit. he in the hole. >> now, the whole conversation
was 14 minutes and 19 seconds, so she's going three ways for him. >> evans then asked the aunt to use the three-way calling feature on her phone to contact evans' friends or family for him. >> he wants to ask you, can you dial this number for me put my mother on the three-way? >> as a result evans gets a free phone call which comes in handy because he has no way of paying for calls. >> evans has a negative balance of $31.61. he doesn't have any money on his books. >> now both inmates face disciplinary action. >> it really doesn't bother me what they're going to give. like i said i didn't make the phone call you know? i didn't call my victim. >> is that how you make your calls? >> if i'm in jail and i can't get through to my family and somebody's telling me to help them out and they help me out, yes, ma'am. i have a mother that's sick out there. yes, ma'am, that is, that is how i get on the phone. >> so it was like a favor for a favor, you know? he did me a favor, but at the
same time i did him a favor. >> wrong is wrong, right is right. i was wrong, but i was wrong for a right cause. >> knowing charles evans and how he does things he's a creature of his own demise, and then it always comes down to every time i go to see sooe him, he's sitting with a bible in his hand, what are you doing? i'm just reading my bible every single time. he's going to be probably looking at time in lockup due to this situation depending on what the warden decides, and he's been in prison so he knows how this place works. coming up -- >> i like to go around shoplifting, and that was like my one and only flaws i still had in me. >> charles evans admits to his flaws. and herbie mckinney tries to deal with everybody else's. >> you've got people pissing [ bleep ] on the floor.
cairo cairo's tahrir square tonight following the overthrow of president mohamed morsi. a deadly wildfire should be 85% contained tonight. that blaze killed 19 firefighters. and the annual tradition at the white house, president obama welcomed military members and their families to a barbecue and fire fireworks display for the fourth of july. homefully, you're having a great one. now it's back to "lockup." ♪ at the cuyahoga county corrections center in cleveland, there's nobody to clean the housing units but the inmates themselves, and that suits herbie mckinney just fine. >> it's a daily routine. i clean the sinks about three times a day just to keep
sickness down. you know a lot of these dudes come in from the streets, and you know, a lot of them are coming from heroin too, you know? it's just nasty. they call me mr. clean, too, because that's all i do is clean, clean, clean. just can't stand a dirty place, you know? we all live here and you've got people pissing, [ bleep ] on the floor. so, we do announcements to tell them, hey, whoever's pissing on the floor, whoever put [ bleep ] on the floor, stop it. >> while he awaits trial on a domestic violence charge herbie is honing his entrepreneurial skills with help from the jail commissary. >> i've got herbs daily. i run a store here you know. if guys need something, they run out during the week or just come in and don't have nothing, first i have to ask what's they're here for. if they're in on a misdemeanor charge and they're gone the next day, my money goes out the door. when commissary comes, i give them three items, give me five back, something like that. that's how i make my money to
help my brother and help me. >> herbie also has a food service job. he's compensated with an extra serving or two per day, which also helps supply herb's deli. >> see, i sold mine. i sold mine for a bag of shebangs. i know ain't you happy? how many pieces of bread do you want? >> two. >> here. take those two. i'll take mine i sell it for 2 bucks. that way, i can take that 2 bucks and flip it to 4, make some more money. i sell hamburgers cheeseburgers. i do it all. but recently i got into telecommunications, phone cards. i'll sell two calls for three calls back so i get an extra phone call. anything i can do to make a buck. this is how you do it. you've got to find a hustle when you're in here, got to. >> but herbie has no hustle making it possible to see his identical twin brother, perry, in a separate housing unit.
>> they won't put us together because they said it's a security risk. it gets frustrating because i like to see him, sit down and talk to him, see what's going on. yeah, i love him. that's the love of my life you know what i mean? >> perry mckinney misses herbie as well and even in jail a haircut can stir memories of growing up together in believe it or not, twinsburg, ohio home of the annual twins day festival. >> it looks good. it brings you back to the streets a little bit, like when you could just go to the barber. my brother and i, that's one thing we always do we always go get our hair cut together. and it's funny, because sometimes we'll go to the same barber, he'll tell me oh, man, this hot chick, she's over here go there and mess with her. so i'll go over there, and she'll be like didn't i just cut your hair? >> it was your brother. >> it was my twin brother. >> while the brothers have shared plenty of laughs they also shared drug and alcohol addictions that have put them in jail dozens of times. perry is currently charged with
felonious assault, a fight in which he didn't fair so well himself. >> i got my throat slit right here, 12 stitches there, and i got 12 to 14 right here and a gouge taken out here and then my warm slit as well. it was a bar fight gone bad for both of us. no one died so that's the best part. >> every time i'm in prison or jail, it's because of alcohol, and i still want to drink a beer. i have dreams of me making beer brewing it myself. >> making beer, huh? >> isn't that crazy? >> homer simpson thing going. >> mo's. i grew up perfect, so that's why it's kind of sad to sea me in a situation like this. disappointing sometimes. you get upset thinking of what you've done to your family. >> it takes this a big reality check, a big punch in face. you know this should have warned me right here this right here, all these marks, you know? i could have been dead and i still went out from the hospital i drank that day, and
i continued to drink every day afterwards. it's like god was showing me and i just i never -- it was ringing. i just never picked up the phone phone. >> which one of you was born first? >> well, see, i was sleeping in the womb and we were wombmates, and when i -- us being wombmates, i was sleeping and the door opened and take took off running, so he came out, and 14 minutes later, i was there. we follow each other everywhere we go. it's really weird, our bond. it's like when he hurts, i hurt. it hurts, you know? i'm almost in tears right now even talking about it because like, we really are very very close. very close. and you know i'd rather be on the outside, but i don't want to be in jail with him, and i can't even see him, i can't talk to the phone, you know. it sucks. it sucks bad. and we did this, not anybody
else. we can't blame anybody else. >> i don't know. it's something about us man. it's just, it's addiction. as a former drug dealer charles evans was once on the other side of the addiction equation, but some might argue he's addicted to trouble. he's recently been charged with assaulting an officer, and now jail officials say he's been making phone calls for melvin saustre, who has a court order prohibiting him from calling anyone but his attorney. >> how are you doing? okay. we were contacted by the detective bureau be advised that mr. saustre is on a phone restriction. we have on recording that you had placed a call for him. so, do you want to let me know why you placed this call for him? >> first, i didn't know he was on phone restriction. two, i was trying to get in contact with my mother. as you know my mother got lupus. >> here's the problem, he's on a court order for a judge, just so you understand, so you violated his court order. >> so what's that mean?
>> you're looking at 15 days in lockup. >> okay, but what if i didn't know that? i had no understanding of that. i was just trying to get through to my family. >> i have the recording. we listened to it. >> but i was talking to my mother -- >> but you placed a call. hold on. i need you to understand. >> i'm asking you to understand -- >> i do i understand. i understand you want to talk to your mother. i understand the situation that you're in. >> no girls or anything. it was my mother. >> listen i understand. but the point is you violated a direct order of the court. you violated our proceedings also. >> i respect that. now, have consideration for me as far as that was my mother. >> like i told you -- >> that's all i'm saying, sir. >> okay, thank you. charles evans always has an agenda for something he wants or needs. pretty much every lockup he's had, i've dealt with. so i don't want to say i've built rapport, but i understand what his attitude is and what he's looking for. coming up -- >> how are you doing? >> okay. i'm doing okay. >> joanne schneider gets a visit from the man who's both her husband and her co-defendant.
>> i have like a couple of hours to decide if i wanted to take a plea which i did. i didn't want to trust my life to 12 people who couldn't figure out how to get out of jury duty. >> and the mckinney brothers are allowed one brief visit. >> how are you doing? ♪ ♪ honey, is he too into this car thing? [ mumbling ] definitely the quattro. ♪ ♪ honey? huh? a5. what? [ sighs ] did you say something? ♪ ♪
♪ charles evans has been in and out of cleveland's cuyahoga county corrections center for the past 18 years, but until the theft conviction that brought him back to jail he felt his life was on track. >> my life's been rough. i've been in the streets all my life and i just really got my life together in the last 3 1/2, 4 years now. i still have my faults though. i like to go around shoplifting,
you know theft, you know. i was boosting, as they call it. i was boosting and that was like one of the only flaws i still had in me. >> evans says he was particular about what he stole. >> glasses. >> why? >> they were selling for $400 or $500 and i was selling them for $80. you know they were brands gucci, prada. >> you know all the designers. >> yeah, i've been in the business for two, three years, but i gave it up. you know we live and learn. i'm quite sure i ain't the first one to make mistakes. >> evans was recently given another 15 days in segregation for his part in a three-way calling scheme with an inmate who was banned by court order for calling anyone other than his lawyer. and now, investigators have determined that evans had been placing calls for other inmates as well. >> i ran charles evans' s.o. number on the phone calls. >> okay.
>> he has 11 phone calls other than mr. saustre's. i'll run the numbers, see if possibly he called for other inmates that are in lockup and then did a three-way for himself. >> evans, currently in segregation for arguing with another inmate still has a right to make phone calls, though many other inmates on his unit are there for more serious violations and have lost that privilege. >> this call may be recorded or monitored. i have a prepaid call from -- >> charles. >> so what he's doing is as soon as new people come into lockup hitting him up for phone calls, saying hey, i can put a phone call for you if you let me make a three-way call. we have records that he placed phone calls for five or six different inmates besides saustre. i'm going to visit him, explain what the situation is. >> what'd i do now? >> okay you have another 80 pl
lockup. >> for what now? >> okay, i hope we don't keep going through this okay? >> okay. >> we know that you made calls for saustre. realso found that you made other calls for other people in lockup. >> no. >> you've placed 17 calls under your name for other inmates, through their families, you used three-ways to place calls to your family. these prisoners are in lockup and they have no right to place the calls. placing you on phone restrictions while you're in the jail. >> you don't have to sit here and keep going through this. >> that's what i'm telling you. you're looking at lockup time. >> okay, fine. >> are you admitting to to doing this? >> again, yes. >> i'm letting you know right now, here's the situation you're going into right now. >> okay. >> a recommendation has been made by sergeant daniels to place you on phone restrictions okay? >> okay okay. >> any questions? >> no. >> okay.
>> please don't come back and waste my time anymore. i don't give a [ bleep ] what he do! >> while evans will get more segregation time for what is considered a jailhouse hustle joanne schneider will soon transfer to prison to serve the remaining 6 1/2 years of a 9-year sentence. she recently received for a considerably larger hustle. authorities say she ran a ponzi scheme that ripped off nearly 800 investors out of $60 million. she says she was trying to fund a large retail and entertainment complex that could have been a boom for cleveland. >> and i love this city and we're in such lovely renaissance right now, and it's just it's wonderful. this is my home. >> ironically schneider has an excellent view of the city's football stadium and lakefront
from her narrow cell window but it's a far cry from the life she led with her husband of 49 years, allen schneider. >> he puts money on my books here for the phone. i can call him every day to keep my sanity. and he comes to visit me twice a week. >> okay mr. schneider, you're going to the sixth floor, booth 2. >> all right, thank you. >> okay, no problem. >> i know she's innocent. she knows she's innocent. god knows she's innocent and those are the only three people that matter. >> allen schneider was also implicated in the security and theft charges that sent his wife to prison but prosecutors say he played a lesser role. after reaching a plea deal he received five years probation. >> i have like a couple of hours to decide if i wanted to take the plea which i did for the specific reason of i didn't want to trust my life to 12 people who couldn't figure out how to get out of jury duty. >> though he's never served time in jail schneider has spent
plenty of time here visiting his wife. >> i visit with joanne twice a week. the visits are typically from 20 minutes to a half hour. the thing i don't like about the visits here is it's all via telephone through glass. >> how are you doing? >> okay. i'm doing okay. >> you look like you're getting around a little better. >> yeah. >> you look good. your hair looks good. >> yeah, yeah you, too. i wished i was hope to help you. >> well i wish you were home to help me, too. i wish you were just home period, not only to help me. >> hopefully -- >> i eat a lot better when you're at home. cold cuts and hot dogs. >> yeah, yeah. i worry about that. >> well don't worry about me. >> you know? >> i'll be just fine. you've got to take care of yourself. >> with her transfer to prison imminent schneider still does not know how far away she will go. she fears she will be sent to the same prison in which she served time prior to her resentencing the ohio reformatory for women in
marysville ohio 150 miles from cleveland. >> in marysville if you want my honest opinion, is the armpit of hell. >> as you well know there is no guarantees with this judicial system. >> right, right. >> if you wind up in marysville we'll deal with that when the time comes. it's a long trek from here down to marysville to see you, so. >> right, right. >> you're going to come back home sooner or later. >> they can't keep me forever. >> right. >> ms. schneider, your visit is up. you have to send your visitor back down. >> okay. >> thank you. >> all righty. we have to say good-bye. >> we have to say good-bye? >> yeah. >> i love you. >> i love you, too. >> bye-bye. i don't know when exactly i'll see him next. tomorrow is friday. it's the day they usually drive the women out of here to go down to marysville, ohio, and i pray i don't go there. coming up -- >> i love you.
identical twins perry and herbie mckinney are the first to acknowledge, when they're in each other's presence on the outside, their drug and alcohol addictions escalate. still, being separated inside the cuyahoga county corrections center has been painful. >> it's one of the worst feelings in the world, too, because him and i are so close. you know i just want to see my brother. it would make life a lot easier for everybody, you know especially me, because i love my brother. >> oh, it's a bond that just can't be broken, you know?
just total love. >> perry has just reached a plea deal that will soon send him to prison. by entering a guilty plea his felonious assault charge for a bar fight was reduced to aggravated assault and he has been sentenced to one year in prison. knowing he will soon transfer out, jail officials have granted a brief visit with herbie. >> it's about damn time. >> hey, what's up? [ bleep ] how are you doing? they come and got you? >> yeah. >> how are you doing? >> all right? >> feels good. your muscles -- [ bleep ]. >> oh, yeah. only muscle you got is in your mouth. >> you're looking good though. >> yeah, thank you. i love you. god, you look great. >> so do you.
>> i love you. >> i love you, too, man. >> despite their love for each other, the brothers know their relationship poses dangers to them both. >> we destroy each other. >> yeah. >> we'll build each other up but then it breaks right down. >> it's definitely hot and cold. >> once we go down we both go down together. >> yeah, we go down together and go with a fight. >> and then we just don't give a [ bleep ]. >> then we do whatever we can. we go to all lengths, robbing, dealing -- >> i'm still surprised no one's been killed yet, which is i'm glad that actually -- >> our actions did not lead to somebody's death. >> right exactly. >> driving drunk you know? >> oh, yeah. >> that will usually kill somebody and i drive drunk continuously. >> me, too. like i told the one guy, i said if i'm going just a mile down the street i've got to take a beer with me. >> that's exactly with me. >> that's how it used to be. well, not no more but he's the one -- >> but can you stay sober
together? >> i know i could. >> i know. i think if we did this the steps, like if we went to say a rehab together say a rehab away from like mom, my kids everybody, just away just him and i secluded in one little place to where we could focus on us and everything we could work on together -- >> we could work on together -- >> we'd be perfect. >> it would be sweet. >> perry will leave any day now to begin his one-day sentence and herbie may soon follow to serve time himself. >> i'll see you when i see you. love you. >> love you, too. >> for security reasons, inmates never know exactly what day they will transfer nor what prison they will be sent to until the morning they leave. and now, joanne schneider has just gotten the wake-up call she's been dreading. she's headed back to the ohio reformatory for women in marysville, 150 miles from her
home and husband. >> my heart is broken. you look at this garbage bag, this is my whole life. that's my whole life in that garbage bag. it's part of that part of stripping you of who you are. >> ladies! is it sloppy in there? >> schneider, who must now serve the remaining six years of her nine-year sentence is allowed one possession most other inmates must leave behind. >> most of the time the females, they leave out when they have to have no underwear and this and that. that's a policy. in her case because she's so much older i let her keep a lot of her items. they can get them from her when she goes to marysville. use the restroom as many times as you need to. no matter who you are, no matter who you think you are, no matter who you know or think you know i know you all know some big-time people, but they're still going to stop so make sure you use the restroom okay? pad up if you need to.
okay? all right, ladies step out, the ones that are done. nope, all the way to the back. >> can you leave them on loose for me? >> all the way, ladies. step up on the sidewalk. stay on the sidewalk when you go around, until you go through. >> all 13 of you are getting out of this van. it's going to be crowded. i'm going to grab the four skinniest, put them in the back row. one, two, three, four. step all the way into the back. all four of you need to be in the back row. >> i have a policeman friend that took me out for dinner before i went to prison the first time. and sitting across the table, i said to him, "jimmy what do i do? how do i handle this?" and he told me take it like a
IN COLLECTIONSMSNBC West Television Archive Television Archive News Search Service
Uploaded by TV Archive on