a stronger sense when it comes especially to the sentencing the scales of justice must be weighed for the victim as well as the defendant. just a thought. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight, on "all in" there's a simple, humane and perfectly reasonable solution to the tragic case of a florida woman spending 20 years in jail for firing a warning shot at her allegedly abusive husband. governor rick scott pardoned marissa alexander. more on this in a moment. also tonight the fire storm over the cover of "rolling stone" is taking a new turn this evening. an outraged member of the massachusetts state police responds by releasing dramatic new photos of the night dzhokhar tsarnaev was taken into custody.

those red dots, the laser sites of a police sniper. plus the new era of entrepreneurism in the age of obama care. tonight, i'll talk with one of the founders of a startup health care company built to compete with the big boys and made possible by the affordable care act. that is all tonight. but we begin tonight in florida, where governor rick scott absent from the capitol, as pressure mounts for him to address his constituents' outrage in the wake of the george zimmerman verdict. today is a third day a group of activists dedicated to nonviolent civil disobedience have occupied the capitol in tallahassee. they call themselves the dream defenders. their demands are simple. they're calling on rick scott to convene a special legislative session to address the state's stand your ground law, and a new civil rights bill, the trayvon martin act. they say they're not leaving until they meet the governor. rick scott, for his part, is staying far, far away. in fact, he hasn't appeared in the capitol publicly since last tuesday. but today, even as rick scott does his best to avoid

tallahassee, he could not avoid questions about stand your ground. >> florida stand your ground law has been getting a lot of attention recently. do you believe that law needs another look? >> put together a task force of 19 individuals, bipartisan. they travel the state. they listen to ordinary citizens. they listen to experts and they on colluded we didn't need to make a change to the law and i agree with their conclusion. >> so you're comfortable with it. >> yep. >> but tonight, it became clear that scott's defense of the law will absolutely not be the last word. because just hours ago, trayvon martin's parents appearing here on msnbc with reverend al sharpton discussed their plans to participate in vigils this weekend in support of a bill that would end stand your ground in florida as we know it. >> the trayvon martin amendment says that you cannot pursue, you cannot follow, chase someone, pick a fight with them, shoot and kill them and then say you were standing your ground. >> now, the focus on florida's stand your ground law in the

wake of the zimmerman verdict has also put pressure on rick scott to intervene in the tragic case of marissa alexander, one we've been highlighting on "all in" all week. a mother of three fired what she described as a warning shot at her allegedly abusive husband. she's now serving a 20-year sentence despite attempting to invoke florida's stand your ground law. and now a state senator in florida is calling for scott to pardon alexander, as floridians turn their attention to her story in the wake of zimmerman's acquittal. >> right this minute, there's a push for a new trial for a mom sentenced to 20 years in jail for firing a gun. >> marissa alexander just starting her second year of a 20-year sentence doesn't get much to look forward to. >> criminal case involving a local woman is back in the spotlight in the aftermath of the george zimmerman trial. >> joining me from florida, the state senator calling for marissa alexander to be

pardoned. dwight bullard, a democratic senator. also sponsored legislation to repeal the stand your ground law. senator, my first question for you, why have you become involved in this case? why are you making this appeal to governor rick scott? >> well, chris, i've been convinced social justice is necessary for the people of florida. when we look at the plethora of things our governor scott has chosen to ignore, whether it's health care for the neediest floridian, or seeking justice for marissa alexander, there has to be a time when we draw a line in the sand and that time is now. >> watching the reaction to the verdict and watching things in florida right now, it's hard to get a sense of what the mood is in the state there and in the state capitol, particularly. do you think the governor is feeling any fallout from this verdict from his task force which he keeps pawning the stand your ground law on, from the mounting pressure for him to pardon marissa alexander? is the governor being held to account there, or is this kind of a passing thing that will be gone in a week? >> well, in hearing the governor's response to the question he was asked earlier,

it was very odd because just today the co-chair of his now infamous task force has come out and said that the governor did the opposite. he ignored suggestions made by the task force that could very well change stand your ground. >> that task force was convened and appointed by the governor and a lot of people are looking to see that law amended in trayvon martin act as you heard sybrina martin today. what kind of legislation do you want to see move forward on that account? >> i sponsor full-on appeals of stand your ground and amendment to stand your ground as well as my colleague senator chris smith, representative alan williams. any number of members of the state legislature have offered up suggestions. but to ignore your own task force suggestions and then go around and saying that there were no suggestions offered is a

flat-out lie and it's unfortunate that the governor's chosen to take that strong position considering that his very own task force did, in fact, make suggestions. >> on the case of stand your ground, obviously, that's legislation. it would have to work through a house and state senate that are both, i believe, controlled by republicans at the moment. in terms of marissa alexander, the governor has power to grant her mercy or commute her sentence or to pardon her? >> he very well does, and that's exactly why i've asked for the pardon. the reality is the injustice shown in marissa alexander in light of the recent luck that we'll call it that george zimmerman received via the verdict this past weekend shows that the stand your ground law is too vague. it's too vague. that's why we need to address that. more importantly, the injustice shown in marissa alexander

specifically, someone who in receiving threats, in being tormented by her husband, chose to defend herself and truly stand her ground, is somehow doing 20 years in prison. that injustice cannot stand, and i for one will not allow it. >> do you have an open line to governor scott? is he receptive to this? do you have a way of communicating with him? have you spoken with him about this? >> well, as you pointed out, governor scott has not been to the capitol and really hasn't been seen around tallahassee since last week, unfortunately. i'm looking forward to his response, and being an elected politician here in the state of florida, much like the governor, i expect to receive a response, even in the form of a letter. more importantly, i think there needs to be a call to the governor. actually, i think there are needs to be several calls to the governor from everyone who believes in rights and justice of marissa alexander. >> dwight bullard. joining me from the capitol in tallahassee, florida,

executive director of dream defenders, the group that has been occupying the capitol. phillip, tell me about why you are sleeping in the capitol. explain to me why i shouldn't view you as a bunch of misguided idealistic kids who are expressing sour grapes over a verdict that didn't go their way? >> right. that's a great question, chris, and i appreciate you having us on. it's important to recognize that last week didn't just send shockwaves across florida but sent shockwaves across the nation. what that verdict did was show the nation that florida didn't really value its youth, and so though we could be angry, right, and though we could destroy cities as the media say we'd like to do, we decided to direct our anger in a way that moves us forward, in a way that recognizes the wrong and the injustice that it's done to trayvon martin and his family and galvanize the anger around this at the capitol. you asked about misguided youth. i think that's a notion that

young people have gotten for a little while, and i think it's misguided because we know what we're doing. we've arrived at the seat of power. we're human beings. we're citizens of the state of florida who have a right to petition our government when a grievance has been committed and a wrong has been done to us. and we're presenting an option for the governor, an opportunity like senator bullard is as well, to right this wrong, to right this ship of a wayward ship that he's overseeing and to really give an opportunity for a young people in the state of florida, hopefully young people around the country, to produce something out of this injustice that really moves our community forward, and it's the trayvon martin civil rights act. >> tell me about the demand you're making. i understand there are between 30 and 90 members of your group that have been in the capitol full time for the past few days. you're asking for a trayvon martin civil rights act. what does that piece of legislation look like?

>> so what we've done, you know, legislators have a really hard job, so what we've done as young people around the state is try to do a little bit of work to bring something to the table here in this case. so we consider three pillars that we believe contributed to the environment in the state of florida that created a george zimmerman and that snuffed out trayvon martin. and so those three pillars are the stand your ground law. we agree it needs to be repealed. laws are supposed to prevent violence, not encourage and protect violent offenders. racial profiling. we know that it's a problem rampant around the country, especially here in florida, and we think this is an opportunity to change that. and also the war on youth. more specifically, the school-to-prison pipeline which florida is number one in. so we feel if you are able to attack those three pillars, we can move to a place where young people actually have an opportunity to feel safe and feel productive and live fulfilling lives here in florida. >> phillip agnew, from the dream defenders, currently occupying the capitol. when are you going to leave, and have you heard from the governor? >> we're not going to leave

until our demand is met. our demand isn't just for meeting with the governor. our demand is not just for an audience with the governor. our demand is for him to call a special session of the legislature and con convenience that to discuss this bill. and so we won't leave knoll we get that demand met. so i think it's important that we realize the urgency of this situation. we know the weight of such a decision to call people from around the state here to tallahassee, but we feel like we are in a state of emergency as young people in this state and i think young people around the country feel the same. we're ready to act on it. >> phillip agnew from the dream defenders. really a pleasure speaking to you tonight. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. next on "all in," did protesters really try to smuggle jars of poop into the texas capitol building as officials there claim? why we think something stinks, next. the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal

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last night we laid out the reasons new york city police commissioner ray kelly should not be the next department of

homeland security chief. congressman hakeem jeffries of new york told me kelly's massive stop and frisk program and sprawling surveillance of muslim new yorkers are good reasons to oppose a potential kelly nomination. today there's word that kelly is open to taking the job if given the opportunity. at least that's the word from kelly's biggest republican booster in congress, peter king of long island. as long as kelly's name is still in the mix, we will keep making sure people know his record.

there's news of a strange twist in a mystery unfolding in

the texas capitol tonight. the case of the 18 jars of feces. you may remember last week as citizens and activists crowded into the capitol to watch them pass a fiercely contested antiabortion bill, many were instructed by troopers carrying bags to forfeit items. this one was posted to twitter friday night and struck many inside and outside texas as a perfect symbol for texas republicans' contempt for women and their lady parts. >> i read somewhere that their periods attract bears. the bears can smell the menstruation. >> when we contacted the texas department of public safety to ask whether they had, in fact, been confiscating tampons from women trying to enter the senate chambers, they explained they were forced to take away ladies' feminine products because they received information that individuals planned to use a variety of items or props to disrupt legislative proceedings. quote, one jar suspected to contain urine and 18 jars

suspected to contain feces. all these items were required to be discarded otherwise those individuals were denied entry into the gallery. now, we reported on this at the time and i have to say, even then this explanation struck me as a bit odd because it seemed completely implausible security at the capitol would confiscate a jar of feces the protester was about to take in the senate chamber and allow said protester to enter the chamber after confiscating their smuggled poop. i was a bit suspicious about the phrase jars suspected to contain feces. i happen to be the father of a 20-month-old and know firsthand that suspicion of the presence of feces is not a suspicion that lasts very long. it can be verified one way or the other pretty quickly. how is it texas officers hadn't confirmed whether they were or were not in the possession of more than a dozen jars of poop? my suspicions are well founded. "texas tribune" reports on friday they spoke with officers

outside the senate gallery and at each entrance to the capitol and none of them had seen or found jars containing feces of urine. and, quote, multiple officers throughout the capitol said they had not heard of any jars being found until a reporter mentioned it. for its part, the texas department of public safety is standing by its initial claim but they appear to be short of any kind of proof. in a letter responding to questions from a democratic state rep, the director of the department of public safety writes "the suspicious jars, cans and other items were not confiscated. the visitor had the option of storing the items elsewhere or discarding them in trash boxes provided by the state protection board." the protesters just dropped off their jars of excrement on the way into the senate chamber and picked them up on their way out. the mystery behind the case of the suspected jars of feces may never be definitively solved. did the texas department of public safety slander women's

rights protesters or polite to a punch of poop yielding hecklers? the republican bill designed to shut down most of the state's clinics really riled up the electorate in texas. as demonstrators gathered in the capitol to protest, without a single jar of human waste among them, rick perry signed that bill into law. the activists who fought against this bill as it moved through the legislature are not going away. they're simply refocusing the fight. joining me now is elise hogue, texan and president of neral pro-choice america. it's good to have you here. >> it's great to see you, chris. >> the first question is, why should i not feel deflated and bummed out? wendy davis add this amazing filibuster, galvanized public opinion. they pushed the thing through. he's signing it. 100 republicans at the signing. they're all celebrating. they won, we lost. >> when your opposition has to resort to the we're losing, we're losing, hey, look, poop

defense, we have a lot to be optimistic about. look, i'm a texan. i've never seen energy like this in my adult life. >> are you just saying that or do you mean that? >> i really do mean that. i think what else was notable about it was the nationalization of a fight that everyone recognizes as their own. we were getting calls from all over the country saying, what can i do to help the women in texas? what can i do to help the women in north carolina? there was this recognition that our faiths are all interlinked, that this is a strategy, state by state, clinic by clinic. shut it down. we're all in this together. and i've not seen that before. >> in terms of shutting down clinics, these laws are obviously designed to do that. one of the law's chief supporters, dewhurst, admitted as much when he tweeted out a plan the parenthood tweet about the fact the law is designed to shut them down. this is why we're passing it and sure enough. here's the announcement today. plan the parenthood announced the planned closure of three texas clinics today.

combined impact of budget cuts to women's health care services and the dismantling of the successful women's health program will take affordable, preventative health care options away from women in bryan -- >> it makes me very sad. this is my home state. it makes me very sad for the women. there are vast stretches in texas where there's not even basic access to health care, much less the kind of reproductive care that women seek. when they're desperate for help, and we're already seeing the results of restricted access. right? there was another study, 7% of women have such restrictive access, they're trying to get abortions, they're trying to self-aboard first. >> i want to hammer this home. this is a really jaw-dropping statistic. a study out saying 7% of women in the state of texas already before the bill passed were trying first to self-abort before seeking medical attention. and we could only imagine that

if the number of clinics in that state go down, then you are going to see more of them. >> absolutely. i mean, i think, you know, we're going to see women die. we're going to see more kermit gosnells cropping up all over. i think people really understand and they're starting to understand that when we outlawed alcohol, it just meant violent gangs, controlled liquor. when we try to teach abstinence, sex ed, kids just get pregnant. every single study shows when you outlaw abortion, you don't stop women from seeking control over her own destiny. you just drive up deaths and injuries. >> okay. so what's the next step in this fight? rick perry and the texas republicans won this round. these clinics are shutting down. north carolina is well on its way to signing probably having that law signed though mccrory is equivocal whether he's going to sign this bill. what's the next step? >> people are ready to pull out all the stops. litigation in some of these cases. you're even talking about ohio. where i think we're going to see

the impact is at the ballot box. i think mccrory has seen his favorabilities go down 15 points since the beginning of june when he had to deal with this issue. we're seeing in north carolina a lot of people oppose the bill. 80% of north carolinians oppose how it went down. what we're seeing is a desperate gop driven by extreme ideologues. >> as a native texas, the democratic party has has been just -- for decades. that's the truth about the -- >> i'm not going to agree. i think we've been seeing organizing in corners. we're seeing a demographic shift there. we're seeing more women like wendy davis take office. >> right. the point is, what happened there at the capitol, which everyone in texas say they're never seen anything like it, what happened there in the capitol, is that the springboard for something past today? >> absolutely. i think it is. they're continuing to overreach.

they introduced a bill today saying, we want a 20-week ban? let's ban abortion at 6 weeks. this shows their cards on the table and i think it's big trouble for them. >> elise hogue. there's breaking news on the story we brought you in florida earlier. phillip agnew of the dream defenders back with us. phillip, are you there? >> i'm here. i'm here. long time, no see. >> yeah, how have you been? what's going on? >> well, i just got word from our team inside that the governor has agreed to meet with us. so we're excited about that, but the fact is our demand sill hasn't been met. >> so the governor actually has reached out and says he's going to meet with the dream defenders. you just got word of that just now? >> right. i just got word of it. >> i've known for quite a while rick scott secretly watched "all in" every night but now i think we have actual confirmation.

>> yes, we do. and, you know, we're planning on meeting and we're still holding hard to our demand. i think it's important that people know when you draw a line in the sand, you stick with that line. compromise is good, but we've head a demand. we want that special session. >> the occupation will proceed until there is a special session called by the governor. in the interim, the governor reached out to the dream defenders occupying the capitol the last several days and said he will meet with you after being absent from the capitol since last tuesday. >> welcome home, governor scott. >> phillip agnew from the dream defenders. thank you so much. up next, you've seen the controversy surrounding around the new "rolling stone" cover. if you think this image of dzhokhar tsarnaev is interesting, wait until you see the new ones at the moment of capture. we'll be right back.

extremists are trying to recruit young people for jihad. that is just a known fact. and this could give jihad -- >> great point. >> -- another recruiting tool. you know, 72 virgins, that's interesting to some, but the cover of the "rolling stone," that's delicious. >> setting off social media, creating instant avalanche of criticism debate is this. "rolling stone" cover of dzhokhar tsarnaev. the picture has been dubbed a glam celebrity-like treatment of a terrorist. many outlets including walgreens, rite and kmart won't sell it. joining me now is rachel sklar, co-founder of "the list," a media networking company for women. she's also contributor to medium.com.

rachel, you wrote a piece about why you found this distasteful. i got into bed last night with my wife and i was talking to her, i don't understand why people are upset about this cover. she's like, i think it's disgusting. i've been surprised how massively polarizing it is along surprising lines. when i read your piece, i wouldn't have necessarily pegged rh to think that why. why do you think it's distasteful? >> i found it very irresponsibly glamorizing, and it's because of what the context of "rolling stone" is. it is a magazine, and, yes, it publishes lots of interesting journalism that has nothing to do with music but the cover is always about some rock star or a movie star, or someone famous. and the example of charles manson being on it in 1970 has been brought up. i don't actually find that very compelling. also it's 1970. >> i think that was more

distasteful than this. i think the manson one was glamorizing manson. here's my feeling about this image. first of all, it seems people are mad at "rolling stone" because people find this person, this individual accused of an absolutely horrific disgusting crime physically attractive, he's a good looking young man and took a selfie. it seems to me part of the goal of this image is to make people stop and think about the line that separates a normal person from someone capable of doing something monstrous. >> yes. and that is what the article is about. the context of the article, this picture would be very appropriate and this photo was on the cover of "the new york times" and in a news context you could understand it and place it in context. on "rolling stone," on the cover, he looks like a stroke. he looks like a jonas brother. he looks like someone who would be dating taylor swift. >> right. >> he doesn't look like -- >> you're saying the combination of this magazine with this cover, there so no way to escape that. here's my other question.

>> okay. >> these new photos that were put out by tactical photographer i believe from the massachusetts state police which are incredibly intense about the moments of his capture. if that were on the cover, would that do the same thing? in some ways this seems almost more glorifying, him as this bloodies warrior. >> i think that the point of this image is it's really inescapable to think that the "rolling stone" editors wouldn't have thought about the effects of this cover and what it looked like. and i understand that they wanted to point out that, you know, all terrorists don't come packaged like caricatures who are angry and unattractive, they can be people who walk among us. i get that. when your first encounter with the magazine is the cover and seeing it packaged like a rock star, it gives the impression that this kid is something of a rock star. and there are, you know, that has an impact. there are -- he has fans.

he has -- there's a whole, like, free dzhokhar movement. >> yeah, there is a very creepy, weird subculture of particularly teenagers devoted to him as this kind of cult figure on the internet. i totally agree. >> of course, for youths who are troubled and who might seek, you know, evidence that this is -- >> okay. here's -- yes. all that seems possible to me. >> right. >> it also seems like part of it is being stirred up by people who want to bully us into not talking about what the motivations of someone who did this could be, right? that's part of -- i saw michelle malkin tweet about this. >> one of the rare instances on which we agree. >> i think maybe i was doing that thing which is always dangerous which is trying to reason as a bank shot off someone i generally disagree with. she's against the image, so maybe i'm for it. you're actually somewhat persuasive. >> i think it glamorizes it. i think it's really hard to take

the two things away. the fact that it's an appealing cover that would look good to someone who, you know, idolizes rock stars. >> right. >> it's hard to differentiate. without the context. yes, it says that he's a monster. yes -- >> but you're totally right that people are going to see the cover and not read the article. that's the nature of magazine covers. we all see magazine covers. rachel sklar from "the list." thank you so much. >> thank you. we'll be right back with #click3.

when president obama won re-election on november 6th of last year it was widely accepted he just completed his last political campaign. today we saw a president fully engaged in another campaign in the fate of his legacy could defend on its success. that's coming up. first, i want to share three awesomest things on the internet today. we begin across the pond with what is being called the great kate wait. the royal baby will be here any day now. at least that's what people on tv known as royal watchers tell us. people who care about this sort of thing are seeking to commemorate the event with souvenirs and people are hoping to profit off this sort of thing are seeking to commemorate the

event through gambling. at the european online gamblers paradise, one can place a bet on everything from the latest horse race to the existence of aliens. and now one can play the odds with a house of windsor's newest addition. the website is taking bets on what the name will be with alexandria and george taking it. as cbs reports, pocahontas and hash tag are long shots. including the age the baby will be when the newspaper publishes a photograph of him or her leaving a nightclub that serves alcohol. depends how long uncle harry is allowed to baby sit. the second thing, the world of gymnastics. it's about to get even tougher. iowa 9 reports, one youtube user engineered an army of robot gymnasts. sounds terrifying but it looks amazing. here's one doing some horizontal bar work.

now, i for one think that is pretty great. notice it sticks the landing. although it looks like the judge is not impressed. and the third awesomest thing on the internet today, an ode to another magical machine, the mighty escalator. our friends, they transport us to different floors in the same building when it's too damn hot to take the stairs. the great state of wyoming has only two of them, two escalators in the entire state. in 2008, one enterprising reporter, meagan lee set out to count the state's vertical people movers. here's video of casper's hilltop national bank, home of one escalator. lee later discovered a different casper bank housed the state's other escalator. with liz cheney announcing she's running for senate in the equality state, some thought of wyoming's current escalator process. the state still has only two escalators, one per u.s.

senator. of course, cheney the younger grew up in virginia where they grow their escalators big. the mike enzi attack ad, wyoming, you take the stairs. tell liz cheney to take a hike. find the links for tonight's #click3 on our website, allinwithchris.com. we'll be right back.

and in states that are working hard to make sure that

this law delivers for their people, we're seeing is that consumers are getting a hint of how much money they're potentially going to save. the affordable care act is doing what it's designed to do. deliver more choices, better benefits, a check on rising costs, and higher quality health care. >> that was president obama earlier today at the white house in what is best understood as a campaign appearance in what the "washington post" has called obama's last campaign. the president's full-scale effort to cement his legacy by getting the public to understand and why into the about to be implemented core of the affordable care act. president knows more than three years since signing the affordable care act into law, the public has been either skeptical or pretty much clueless about how the law will work. that ignorance is helping to fuel the ongoing republican efforts to dismantle it. starting in about three months, those who are currently

uninsured will be able to get the insurance through exchanges which, if set up properly, will allow you to buy health insurance the same way orbitz allows you to buy a plane ticket. compare prices and purchase a plan that best suits you. report out today by the department of health and human services finds this type of competition will lower premiums by nearly 20%. in new york, health care costs last year are set to be 50% lower on average. on the front page, the campaign to sell the affordable care act will have to go beyond the success touted in new york. the administration needs to build more insurance marketplaces than ever expected and create an i.t. infrastructure and work with red state bureaucracies that want to see obama care fail. even the most tuned in health care consultants have trouble predicting whether the federal government can get the law off the ground. joining me now, msnbc policy analyst, ezra klein, columnist of the "washington post," editor of wonk blog. you and sarah did a fantastic job with this piece. >> thank you. >> best long read on health care implementation i've read all week. >> tough competition there. >> tough competition.

what i thought was fascinating about it, there's been so much kind of hype and, you know, scare mongering about the implementation of this bill. what i thought was really interesting was the frame of it being a campaign. why is it being seen inside the white house like a campaign? >> we wanted to get away from the washington conversation and kind of figure out, there are these people, thousands and thousands of people trying to make this thing work. what we found at the white house level, the national level, the way they're thinking about it is the core of the bill are these insurance marketplaces in each state. and in order to make those marketplaces work, they need enough young and healthy people that the premiums don't skyrocket because, you know, insurance premiums are an average of the expected health care costs. >> a pool of risk. >> you have old, sick people.

it gets very expensive. you need young, healthy people the first year to make it work. they facility, 55% i believe are minority. they skew male. the way the white house is looking to get them is micro-targeting, modeling. they know which television shows they watch. you hear them talk about it and it sounds exactly like the campaign. >> we got the 2.7 million we have to go out and find. here's the thing, my first thought, when i read this about this campaign, i thought wait a second, didn't we have this entire national fight about the mandate? how is it they have to make sure they join the exchanges if they are mandated by the law to join the exchanges? what am i not getting? >> the mandate is something you can pay. in year one you can pay 95 bucks. in year one, you want them in there. wait until the end of the year and this penalty kicks in and maybe because of the penalty a bunch of people come in for year two when prices are already possibly going up because they weren't there in year one. you want to get them in on the front end, don't want it to be something you're forcing them to do. they want to tell people, this is a good deal for you, a good insurance marketplace where many cases subsidizing you, giving

you financial help to get in there. they don't want to do it on the back end of the penalty. >> i remember a reporter in chicago going to a senior center on the northwest side and listening to a spiel given about how people are going to enroll and everyone was freaked out, confused and terrified. i, myself, sitting there like, i understood absolutely none of this. i wrote an article, this is going to be a train wreck. it wasn't a train wreck. months before it launched in 2006, medicare part "d" was less popular than today's affordable care act. has more than 50 million beneficiaries. it's extremely popular. someone who helped oversee medicare part "d" took exception to that. here's karl rove taking a shot at you on fox news today. >> well first of all, mr. ezra klein who's a liberal blogger and perhaps the biggest cheerleader the "washington post" has for president obama is absolutely wrong about that. yes, the program was not as

popular. only 21% in 1 poll said they understood it well enough and knew what it was going to do. there was a large amount of people not paying any attention to it whatsoever because it was senior prescription drug coverage. >> you're not going to get smeared by karl rove, why even get up to go to work in the morning? >> i'm disappointed you didn't bring your pompoms, frankly. >> he doesn't end up disagreeing with anything we wrote there. at that point, 21% had a favorable view and 34% had an unfavorable view. later in the year it went down to 6% net unfavorable. generally speaking, obama care is in the 3% to 8% net unfavorable range. the point we're making is a different point than obama care is going to be like medicare part "d." i wouldn't take that analogy. the thing about medicare part "d" is democrats who largely didn't support it decided after it passed to help out with it.

we quote this great hearing from the senate aging committee where herb cole, the top democrat on committee from wisconsin say, look, i don't like this law, it's going terribly, but we have to put aside partisan considerations and help to make it work and figure out how to make it work. that is something the obama administration cannot rely on. >> favorite anecdote about that, staffer of a democratic senator who voted for medicare part "d" and says i have to go vote for this piece of mess. true story. we'll be right back with someone taking advantage of the conditions created by the affordable care act and trying to change health care coverage for the better. [ heart beating, monitor beeping ]

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you going to grill me? i've heard about you guys. i'm terrified. >> i met up with the president. came here to sell his economic plan to the local media there,

but the questions i brought with me from columbia dealt with what kids care about, starting with some advice about how to get to be president some day. >> study very hard in school and learn a lot about a lot of things. develop your mind. it's not so important what you study, it's that you learn to use your mind because we're living in a world that's changing very rapidly. >> that 1993 interview was conducted by an intrepid fearless 11-year-old. he is still fearless because he and two partners are doing something that seems like a recipe for disaster, starting a new health insurance company. you don't see the adjective startup used for health care company. it's they're betting the affordable care act will revolutionize the business, create a new space for innovation in delivering insurance they can capitalize. joining me to discuss why health insurance companies suck and why his won't, kevin nazemi, and still with me at the table, ezra klein. not everyone hates their health

insurance companies, but if you go into a town hall and say, give me complaints about your health insurance companies, it's like give me complaints about your bank, there are certain things, your cable company, there are certain things people will always -- why is that the case? >> we were some of those people. we're a group of tech entrepreneurs who have looked at our health insurance and said, people deserve better. and today's health insurance is like dealing with a broken atm machine. it's not built for consumers but for the hr departments and brokers and big companies and the consumer is an afterthought. >> organizationally, why is it the case the customer service is bad? what is going on that makes it that way? >> what happens is a big, big chunk of market today serves employers and what happens is insurers sell to the employers and the employee gets whatever -- >> you are not the customer, the person who runs comcast health

insurance, that's customer. comcast is the customer. i'm not the customer. >> it would be like if you bought a car from the dealer. what the aca enables is an opportunity for the first time for the 40 million people who today don't have insurance to come into the market and have a choice. through a marketplace that's very equivalent to buying an airplane ticket online. >> does that square with what you understand about the health -- >> yes, that's basically right. the big thing, and i think this is a key point about how the insurance market is changing, two things. one, you get the new marketplaces which is a sort of punctuated moment when you have new entrants come in and everybody is beginning from scratch. number two, we're killing off, "a", the ability to underwrite and go at people because they were sick or have high risk or killing away the ability to really rate against age. where it used to be one of the big ways the insurance competed in the individual market was to find the people who were the best at keeping they didn't want out of their insurance, now all of a sudden you actually need to

just try to get everybody into your pool, try to attract them. instead of being worried your great marketing is going to get to the wrong people. >> the affordable care act created a kind of floor, right, that creates the conditions for a competitive marketplace if it works properly. that's your understanding. >> it's a catalyst for us. it enables us to compete for the business of 40 million people just like any consumer product. it's not going to come to us, but we're going to go out there and we're going to put our products out there and be out there like a campaign and share with people what oscar offers. >> why am i -- let's say i'm in the exchange. let's say i find myself, you know, without employer insurance and let's say i'm getting a subsidy from the government because i fall in that band. and i go and pull up my new york state exchange, for instance. why am i going to choose oscar? >> first of all, we're simple. we're going to take the jargon out and make it something you can understand. something where the details aren't in the fine print but it's up there, up front.

we're transparent with you. where you can see what's there. second thing is that we're going to guide you through all the complexity. health care is complex. that doesn't go away. what you deserve is to be able to see and make choices for yourself, what the price going to be if i go to a provider on one side of the street or provider on the other side of the street? >> how much does the affordable care act play into the price? i went to a specialist for my throat the other day and could have told me it was $25 or $700 and i would not have been surprised by either. i just had no idea. i was like, okay, oh, this counts for the co-pay, okay? well, here. i mean, there is no price transparency. does the affordable care act do anything about that? >> it does a little bit. the affordable care act is not able or does not force everybody to be price transparent. what you're seeing happen there, all these different insurers are negotiating different deals with the hospitals. basically nobody wants it out there because everybody is worried they're going to show they're getting a better deal than their competitors will get it or a worse deal and nobody will want to work with them. i think this is an important

piece of your business which i think affordable care act does offer space for is changing actually who is delivering the care and where you're getting it. a lot of the price differentials happen, you get it from a hospital, get it from a nurse. you guys are doing interesting work to change where you get it from. >> for example, if you have a headache, go to hioscar.com and with a click of a button have a new york-based doctor call you in minutes, that can be 24/7 any time and part of the offering oscar has. >> you're revolutionizing care to a certain level. >> that's a start. >> promise me a year from now there's not going to be a lung patient who is denied a transplant by oscar. >> we promise we're going to be transparent and open about everything we do and empower people through that transparency. can i promise you we'll always be right, not make mistakes? no.

what we owe to everyone, and what we own a consumer market where people can walk away every year. >> kevin nazemi from oscar and msnbc policy analyst ezra klein. thank you both. that is "all in." the "rachel maddow show" starts right now. thanks, my friend. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. have you seen this man? the guy in the middle holding the turtle. rick scott. republican governor of florida. rick scott reportedly has not shown up at the florida state capitol building for nine days. he reportedly has not been to his own office, the governor's office in tallahassee for at least three days. rick scott does not seem to be missing because of some kind of foul play or hike in the appalachian trial or anything like that. rather rick scott has seemed to be in hiding from this. a whole bunch of mostly young citizens in his state camped out at his office protesting. saying they want to meet with the governor and they want him