for the causes that stirred me in my 20s when passions rose, minds were set and life missions accepted. and this is "hardball." the place for politics. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening, from new york, i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in" the white house says there is very little doubt that chemical weapons were used in syria. now the question on everyone's mind is whether the u.s. is on the eve of another war. also tonight, what happens when a right wing fringe congressman says something patently false and the world takes him seriously? plus, donald trump has a giant lawsuit on his hands over accusation he scammed thousands of people all over the country. we'll talk to someone who said she was duped out of over $10,000. those stories are ahead. we begin tonight on the doorstep of another war in the middle east. as secretary of state john kerry

responded in the stronger terms to last week's evident chemical weapons attack by the syrian government on its own people. >> the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians, the killing of women and children, and innocent bystanders, by chemical weapons is a moral obscenity. the reported number of victims, the reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured, the firsthand accounts from humanitarian organizations on the ground like doctors without borders, and the syria human rights commission, these all strongly indicate that everything these images are already screaming at us is real. that chemical weapons were used in syria. the president will be making an informed decision about how to respond to this indiscriminate use of chemical weapons. make no mistake, president obama believes there must be

accountability for those who would use the world's most heinous weapons against the world's most vulnerable people. >> there must be accountability. earlier today, a six-car convoy carrying u.n. weapons inspectors was attacked by sniper fire. no one was hurt, but thein' t u team was forced to return to a government checkpoint. the team replaced their damaged car, proceeded pop t eed to the suburb to complete their investigation. the team visited two hospitals and interviewed witnesses, survivors and doctors and collected samples. last week's attack killed 355 people and about 3,600 more survivors were treated for neurotoxic symptoms, according to doctors without borders. secretary kerry made clear today the consensus has been achieved among intelligence agencies and allies that chemical weapons were used. they were deployed by the regime and killed hundreds of people. kerry said further information will be provided in the days ahead. kerry also noted syrian government was given a chance to

be transparent. >> instead, for five days, the syrian regime refused to allow the u.n. investigators access to the site of the attack that would allegedly exonerate them. instead, it attacked the area further. shelling it and systemically destroying evidence. that is not the behavior of a government that has nothing to hide. >> later today, white house press secretary jay carney underscored the use of chemical weapons is undeniable. >> and the evidence that chemical weapons was used is undeniable, and the proof comes from sources well beyond the u.s. government. open sources. international organizations. witnesses on the ground. >> carney would not speculate about a timeline for response. meanwhile, public opinion is still strongly, very strongly opposed to u.s. military intervention, even if syria used chemical weapons. a daily poll finding support of

military intervention actually decreasing to 26% in favor, with 49% opposed. the question for policymakers in the white house, the president, members of congress and citizens, is now that you have a massacre in broad daylight using chemical weapons, what do you do about it? joining me is former secretary of defense in the clinton administration, william cone -- actually that's senator chris murphy we have in front of us. senator murphy, thank you -- there is william. thank you. former secretary william cone. how are you? >> i'm well. >> secretary cohen, my first question is from a purely technical capacity standpoint, you're in the meeting in which the president is asking you the question, okay, what are possibilities, technically speaking, for what the u.s. could do when we talk about rendering accountability here? what are we talking about? what do those look like? >> the first question would be -- sorry, i got an echo. first issue would be, what is

the mission? if you zee fine the mission clearly, can we execute successfully? what are the costs? not only in terms of money but in terms of bloodshed and also possibility of collateral damage. so these issues have to be settled early on. following that, you say, well, mr. president, you defined the mission to do what? to punish assad? well how heavy do you want us to go or how light? is it some kind of a goldilocks scenario here? i would also warn the president or caution the president saying, once you take step one, are you prepared to take step two and three and four? because it's not enough simply to launch tomahawk missiles and hit military targets. once you do that, you can't step back and say we wash our hands of it. you're in. the question becomes, what happens if the russians decide they want to support syria more than they are today and iran does the same? and battle plan changes on the ground -- >> secretary --

>> does the united states have to do these things? all of that is involved in this kind of calculation. >> i want you to explain that. i think that's very important. if we're talking about essentially punishment to enforce an international norm about the prohibition of chemical weapons which i think is probably an international norm we all agree to and are in favor of, what you're saying to me is some kind of distinct act of punishment, if it's a hellfire missile, a cruise missile, that the day after that you can't just do that and stop. why not? >> well, because there's bound to be a reaction. there will certainly be a reaction by the syrian forces. it may, in fact, stimulate more iranian involvement. not only that, hezbollah coming from lebanon, which is doing today. so the president does not want to change the dynamic on the battlefield by launching any strikes. but by the same token, by launching those strikes and taking out, let's say, airfields, aircraft, air assets and others, does that change the dynamic on the ground? and if that's the case, do the russians sit on the sideline, or

the iranians sit on the sideline? do they then intensify their action? so my caution is, let's make sure before you take step one that you have a battle plan involved that takes into account the contingencies and the potential escalation. also take into account that there may be some collateral damage which is a nice word for saying i'm going to kill some innocent civilians in the process. >> in response to what we just called a moral obscenity, that's an important note as well. former secretary of defense william cohen, thank you for your time tonight. >> pleasure to be with you. joining me now, chris murphy, democrat. in may senator murphy was one of three who voted not to arm syrian rebels, now is open to the possibility of u.s. intervention. tell me, senator, where your thinking is on this in the wake of what looks like relatively persuasive evidence we have just seen a fairly ghastly massacre in using chemical weapons? >> yeah, i certainly agree with the white house that it seems undeniable there was a pretty

massive usage of chemical weapons, and it's absolutely unacceptable. the question here is not whether there is a will to step in and try to stop these actions. it's whether there's a way. and my worry all along has been that we are in the medium term and long term going to make the situation worse, not better. secretary cohen said it very well. a short-term targeted strike from the united states is going to prompt a reaction. possibly the usage of more chemical weapon, which, of course, will then cause us to go in a second time, a third time, and we will very quickly own the battle space there and be involved in yet another quagmire in the middle east, not to mention what comes after a revolution or the fall of assad. which is a long-term civil war. what i want here is for us to just be very sober in our understanding of what a targeted military strike means. it may mean a long-term very expensive, very costly engagement for the united

states. and i fear that right now in this issue, our politics are being driven by some very legitimate short-term humanitarian concerns that may belie a much more costly endeavor in the long run. >> i want to ask you a constitutional and legal question about role of congress in all this and read a statement from speaker john boehner about a conversation he had with the white house. this afternoon the speaker had preliminary communication with the white house about the situation in syria and potential u.s. response. the speaker made clear before any action is taken there must be --" i'm highlighting this "meaningful consultation with members of congress as well as clearly defined objectives and a broader strategy to achieve stability." is it within the four squares of the war powers act for the white house to unilaterally launch some kind of strike without a vote from congress? >> i think the president should come to congress here for a vote. and i think president is right to be very careful in considering his response here and the actions of the united states. but given the fact that he's

taking that time, there's no argument that there isn't also enough time to come have a debate before congress. i was on the losing end of a lopsided vote. very clearly the senate is going to weigh in to give the president the ability to strike here. i think that's the wrong move. at the very least, it would be a vote by the united states congress which i think would back up the congress -- >> senator chris murphy of kentucky. thank you very much. i really appreciate it. joining me, raised in saddam hussein's inner circle. left iraq and founded women for women international. work in war zones all over the world including in boz knee wra a and other places in the middle east. you're someone who worked in war zones who's a humanitarian, who has seen up close the ravages of war and as we think about when we look at the images which are absolutely horrifying and horrendous, what is going

through your head when you look at the images and think about the possibility of increased american activity, interveennti in the region? >> i want to take it from a cultural perspective as an arab. this is is the first time in arab history that the arabs are seeing other arabs killing themselves. and chemical weapons and having women and children in such horrible images of that. never in our history is such -- >> the availability of the images. >> it was kurds and iranians and happened 30 years ago, it was as outrageous, 30 years ago against the kurds and iranians, it was still the other. there's a great deal of anger that has happened in the arab world, because a line you do not touch women and do not touch children has been crossed. >> and these images -- >> culturally. >> -- have crossed the nation. >> absolutely. there's an outrage of that. now, also, everyone doesn't know what to do because you have the opposition to assad's regime are

not united. and they are reflecting another kind of fight in the region. an ideological fight in the region between those who want to return the region to a religious era where everyone is going to traditions and all of these things and between those saying we can maintain our religion within a modern things. the opposition in the syrian war reflect these two tensions. so the intervention in here is not about a strike. this is about a long-term intervention. >> some kind of kinetic action from the united states government in syria as a punishment for violating this international norm. do you think the odds of that are on the side of this -- that making the situation better and preventing future massacres of this type or making it worse? >> well, first of all, we still need to wait for the united states to verify all of that. second of all, once the united states verifies this, this is a violation of international law so this is not only about american law, this is about

international law. i think it's very important that we abide by international law. and so we have an international coalition to go into syria as opposed to a coalition of the willing as we have done in kosovo which was actually illegal. it's an illegal and international standard. if we want to restore america's image, in my opinion, in the region, we need -- >> the process internationally is important. >> absolutely. third, we need to make sure this is not about a strike, this is about creating a coalition government on the long term, making sure there's stability in syria, no civil war. >> the amount of appetite, domestically, politically in the united states for that is. zainab salbi. thank withdryou. the idea the obama administration is in cahoots with the muslim brotherhood in egypt can be traced back to one sitting republican congressman. i'll tell you that story coming up. being active. and being with this guy. [ male announcer ] getting to know you is how we help you choose the humana medicare plan

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if you have an occasion to watch this network, you should be familiar with texas republican congressman louie gohmert. in large part due to his propensity to say things like this. >> what we now have today is a holy quintet which goes against the laws of nature and nature's

god. this president has allowed abuse of christians in the military, unlike any other religion. you have to close your embassies like a bunch of cowards. you really believe that the ones that want to destroy the united states are more stupid than those entrepreneurs in china? >> the reason we played clips of gohmert is because he's an entertaining and enraging reminder of what the right wing fringe in american politics thinks about the big issues of the day. let's make one thing clear. no one mistakes louie gohmert for a powerful presence in american politics. in other words, almost no one takes this guy seriously. except apparently for a whole bunch of folks in egypt who think gohmert is the voice of truth about american foreign policy. specifically egyptians who believe the u.s. and the muslim brotherhood have gone in cahoots to destroy egypt. now, no one really knows the origin of this theory. many people point to a clip of gohmert on the house floor in march of last year in which he equates giving $1.5 billion in aid to the morsi government,

support for terrorists. >> this administration through secretary hillary clinton is going to announce that it could care less what congress has ordered about helping the enemies of israel, about helping those who are terrorecutining c. they're going to get aid, not food, military aid. >> despite the fact most of the money, $1.2 million, in fact, goes to the egyptian military and none fwogoes to the brotherhood, the idea the obama administration partnered with the muslim brotherhood has spread across egypt. look at this speech making the rounds in cairo. according to google translate,

called congressman exposes obama's support for the muslim brotherhood. >> this administration through secretary hillary clinton is going to announce that it could care less what congress has ordered about helping the enemies of israel. about helping those who are terrorizing and persecuting christians in egypt. >> president obama, you invited the muslim brotherhood to the white house? >> egypt right now is in a period of extreme tension and violence lurks around the corner and suspicion and factualism runs deep. the very fertile soil, louie gohmert managed to plant the seeds of conspiracy theory, stoked by an outpouring of dubious pronouncements by state and private news media. the perception of the region, safety of journalists and foreign policy. joining me, kcorrespondent for

"democracy now." joins us via skype because it's after the curfew in egypt. i read anti-americanism in egypt is at a fever pitch. >> the united states has come under fierce criticism from all sides during the latest crisis. supporters of the ousted president mohamed morsi accused obama administration of giving the egyptian military a green light for what they call a coup in ousting president. opponents of morsi, namely the military and the security state have blamed the administration for cozying up to the brotherhood while it was in power and ignoring its many transgressions and you saw a clip of kind of the state and private media using very nationalistic language and trying to whip up the sentiment against the united states which is very popular. but i think it's important to remember that the vast military funding that goes to egypt, $1.3 billion every year, and the

strong ties between the pentagon and egyptian army, little doubt washington's strongest support is for the generals. >> let me stop you there. that, to me, is what's so interesting about this entire conversation. obviously the american government was allied with mu baric for years. millions of dollars in aid. if you were to say to me egyptians are angry because the u.s. government is too closely aligned with the egyptian military or closely aligned with mubar mubarak, i understand. the notion that america of all cases, prosecuting a global war against terror, jihadis, extremists of all islamic varieties across the world for ten years, people would think they were in bed with the muslim brotherhood. i would not believe you. >> i mean, look, while morsi was in power, there was a relationship, of course, with the obama administration and the muslim brotherhood. we saw hamid morsi deal well in the eyes of the united states with israel's assault on gaza in november and he was hailed for

his role in that. and subsequently after that, he issued a constitutional declaration which gave wide-reaching powers and the obama administration was quite silent. so there was plenty of criticism for the u.s. in that respect. but i think it's very important to understand that the egyptian military is required to spend roughly $1.3 billion in aid to purchase weapons from u.s. manufacturers. these are the large defense contractors that have very powerful lobbying firms in washington. companies like general dynamics and lockheed martin, and they're the main beneficiaries of this aid. and, you know, most of these weapons that we get in egypt, these tanks and f-16 s, they're most likely to end up in a warehouse gathering dust than seeing any kind of combat or operational training. egypt has more tanks by one estima estimate. this is really subsidiary for these defense contract eors who help the keep the pipeline going

and important aspect with the relationship with regard to this aid. egypt and israel have this special privilege where they can put orders forward for aid that they haven't even received yet. exactly -- it's like a credit card with a maximum limit of billions of dollars. it's very hard to shut down this pipeline because they're allowed to make orders under the assumption that lawmakers will con to provide the aid every year. >> sharif abdel kouddous from democracy now. onlying up, thousands of people are hoping donald trump was going to make them the next great real estate mogul. instead they say he totally ripped them off and they're suing. one of them will be with here here, ahead. stamps.com is the best.

there will be those that will miscast this as some great social event. let us remember 50 years ago, some came to washington having rode the back of buses, but they came to washington so we could come today in a different time and a different place and we owe them for what we have today. >> this past saturday, tens of thousands of people gathered on the national mall to commemorate the 50th anniversary of dr. martin luther king's 1963 march on washington. a full roster of speakers from

my colleague, the reverend al sharpton what you just saw, to civil rights icon, congressman john lewis, spoke. just as dr. king did when he delivered his famous "i have a dream" speech years ago. august 28th, 1963. the 50th anniversary is coming up this wednesday. we have on this show an incredible opportunity, i'm so thrilled to be a part of. on wednesday evening, at 8:00 p.m. eastern, in a special edition of "all in," we will play martin luther king's "i have a dream" speech in its entirety, uninterrupted by commercial breaks. no one really ever watches the whole speech. we see the sound bites, the famous ones. the full footage of this incredible event is highly restricted and protected. that has a way of framing how we think about martin luther king jr. and the movement he was part of. history over the years has found ways to make king both larger than life but also to somehow narrow his legacy. i can tell you nothing blows

your mind more than to encounter the real actual martin luther king, hear his words. on wednesday night, we're going to give you that. a special hour of "all in" featuring "i have a dream" speech played in its entirety. i'll be joined for a full discussion after the speech by special guests including merley evers williams, martin luther king iii and msnbc colleagues. stay tuned right now because it's monday in august and i'm going to teach you how to make saline solution. next. cable news will never be the same. ♪

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you've heard, dear viewer, i imagine of saline solution. it's a fancy name for salt, plus water. you probably used it maybe for a sore throat or dry eyes and probably haven't spent that much money on it. i hope. here's a pretty simple bottle of saline solution. we got it at a manhattan grocery store for $5.99. here's some souped up asleen

saline solution for red eyes. if you want a no fuss solution, make your own. here's a liter of spring water. cost $1.29. for every liter of spring water. we need 9 grams of salt. less than 2 teaspoons. there are over 40 teaspoons in this $1.45 container of morton salt. morton salt it turns out is what they actually use in most of these. this is an iv bag. you'll see in hospitals. it's what they stick in your arm to rehydrate you before, during and after most medical procedures. the average wholesale cost of this puppy is as low as 44 cents a bag which seems about right given the fact that as i noted, it's just salt and water. but should you be unfortunate enough to encounter this packet of saline solution in its natural habitat of a hospital and you sign for a hospital bill, you're going to pay a lot more than 44 cents. if you think you'll pay something closer to $4.44, sorry, it's more than that. how about $44? remember, it's for this, this thing. nope. not $44. a 1-liter bag of saline solution

could run you about $91. if you need six bags like a recent patient at a new york hospital, that's $546. those details come from a shocking article in "the new york times" today, at white plains hospital, a patient with private insurance from aetna was charged $91 for one unit of hospira iv that cost the hospital, wait for it, 86 cents. a spokeswoman defended the ma markup as consistent with industry standards, affected the cost of the solution but related services and processes, like procurement, biomedical handling and storage which was not included in a charge of $127 just for administering the iv and $893 for emergency room services. this report is just latest in a series to "the new york times" about the everyday mundane outrage in the pricing of medical procedures here in the united states of america. a previous report featured this

guy who flew to belgium, there and back to get a full hip replacement. the whole thing, $13,666 which is nothing compared to the nearly $80,000 the procedure would have cost him out of pocket in the u.s. that is for an art official hift costs $350 to make. the cost of childbirth in the united states is more than twice as much as other developed nations. because in the u.s. all the charges for childbirth are broken out meaning more bills and high r costs and who knows, maybe you'll get a bag of saline, too. keep all of this in mind when people talk about obama care implementation and scream about socialism and a government takeover. we're trying to move slowly, incrementally, finally toward a system that is for lack of a better word, sane. but as long as the price and the prices in the american health care system, 546 bucks for 6 of these, the system is still broken. you know the reason they can't just charge those kinds of

exorbitant rates in a price like belgium? i'll tell you. the government simply prohibits it. as obama care implementation rolls out, it won't take long for it to become clear that the problem isn't that it's a government take wherever of health care. no, no. the problem is that it's not enough of one. coming up, donald trump is being sued for allegedly ripping off thousands of people. one of them will be here. we called mr. trump's office to invite him on or someone to represent him on show. they didn't take us up on that. we gave them our control room number. donald, if you're watching, the phone lines are open. come on, buddy, give us a call. that's why hp built a new kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this&is gonna be big. hp moonshot. it's time to build a better enterprise. together.

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and a 30-tablet free trial. at trump university, we teach success. that's what it's all about. success. it's going to happen to you. >> donald trump is without question the world's most famous businessman. with the launch of trump university, he makes the very best of america's business education available to you and others like you who seek a life of success, fulfillment and prosperity. >> that was a recruiting video for trump university, a for-profit, nonlicensed institution bearing the name of reality show host and right wing carnal barker donald trump. a school with no physical campus, trump university offers online and live seminars

promising to teach students business, salesmanship and as you just heard, success. six years, thousands of people enroll enrolled forking over thousands of dollars hoping to hit it big in real estate. it was an elaborate bait and switch operation. a civil lawsuit filed over the weekend accuses trump university of engaging in, "a pattern of deceptive and illegal business practices." as "the new york times" reports, it began in 2011 after dozens of people complained to authorities about the institution. the school brought in perspective students with promise of a free 9 0-minute seminar discussing real estate. served as a sales pitch for a seminar costing $4,195. leading people i also at issue, trump's claims he hand picked instructors, yet

according to the lawsuit, he did not. other deceptions including representations that students would get their pictures taken with trump or he might stop by the seminar when at most students had their pictures taken with a life size photo of trump. last week donald trump, himself, preemptively launched a website attacking eric snyderman, a site, 98%approval.com, claimed students were satisfied with the trump university experience but would recommend it to a friend. trump is calling the lawsuit thug politics and is floating a few conspiracy theories. >> i'm not a very paranoid person, but when this lightweight attorney general who is not respected by anybody, when he meets with the president and files a suit 24 hours later, i think, yes, i think i've been targeted and i think it's a big problem. on thursday evening in syracuse, he met with president obama. he then filed the lawsuit saturday at 1:00. i've been doing this a long

time. when was the last time you saw a government agency bring a lawsuit on saturday? >> joins me, eric schneiderman. that seems sensible you flew to syracuse to cook this up with the president of the united states, a $40 million lawsuit against donald trump. you want to respond to that accusation? >> i think if he goes to the super bowl, he thinks the guys in the huddle are talking about him. i have more important things to talk to the president about than donald trump. look, when you're a prosecutor, you're used to people who are caught in fraud making crazy allegations against the prosecutor. and it's a distraction. he's not responded at all to the merits of our arguments. he's not responded to the fact that trump university was never registered as a university. state education department of new york was chasing them. they kept lying to them and committing fraud with regard to what they were going to do to solve that problem. they never got their teachers certified. we deposed and have a transcript from the former president of trump university who acknowledged trump never hand picked the instructors.

he never even met the instructors except for one guy he met once. he didn't participate in the curriculum. he only participated in the sales pitch. the playbook, guidelines for instructors, tells them to do just what you were talking about. sell up. you can't break ranks. you always -- >> what's wrong with that? go to a used car dealer and they try to upsell you. why does this cross the line? >> well, there are laws to protect people from fraud. the law protects, you know, the innocent and gullible as well as the cynical and sophisticated. and there were a lot of folks all over america who thought donald trump really is a successful real estate guy when he actually doesn't do much in the way of real estate and hasn't for many years. >> his father was an extremely successful -- >> his father was a real developer. >> i wondered actually if part of the course was donald trump teaching you how to be born to the son of a fabulous and successful -- >> the course was not taught at all by donald trump. the people they brought in as instructors were not real estate

experts. some had been in bankruptcy, themselves. some had backgrounds as motivational speakers. it was all about selling them these packages. they found out the mentorships were useless. had a 1-800 number that was useless. >> this got people in the door. we're talking serious amounts of money. we're talking $10,000 for the next level up, $35,000. there were actual people paying these amounts. >> one of the most despicable things about this is it's in the playbook. they did everyone, if you want to make it in real estate, you have to raise your credit limits. you should all call your credit card companies and get your credit limits raised then they got people to use that extra credit limit to buy $10,000, $25,000, $35,000 trump packages. >> this is documented. >> documented. it's in the complaint. >> obviously -- not obviously tsh it seems to me implausible that you and the president cooked this up as a plot in syracuse. what do you say to someone who say, this is a stunt, you the attorney general of new york

state, have lots of liberals. donald trump is famously a birther and right wing troll. this is point scoring. there are other bigger fish to fry. >> we are frying other bigger fish. we don't have any who insist on going on tv and going crazy which is why this is getting so much attention. first of all, the president and i have never talked about donald trump. we have other more important matters. there's a lot more on the president's mind than this guy. second of all, we began a general investigation of for-profit schools and it's been documented. we just settled with one other school for 10 million bucks last week. this is part of that investigation. >> i got to say, i have had the experience as a reporter, even just having conversations with folks here in new york city, in chicago, in d.c. and other cities i've lived in. there's such a proliferation of pieces. we're not talking about trump university, but broadly places that say, hey, you're looking to move up the ladder. you're working oz ining as a bu janitor. come to us.

we're going to certify you for this job. it seems like a wild west. there's very little regulation. >> it's challenging. there are laws. it's tough for people in law enforcement because resources are slow. in hard economic times, 2008, 2009, 2010, hard economic times. people who are desperate make the easiest victims. they were telling people, we'll get you out of debt, you'll recoup this investment. >> eric schneiderman, thank you very much. we called mr. trump to come on the show. mr. trump, if you're out there watching, give us a call. someone who agreed to come on the show is someone involved in the lawsuit. that person will be herefection. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones.

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if you're going to achieve anything, you have to take action. and action is what trump university is all about. >> that was donald trump, aspousing the virtues of his for-profit institution, trump university, center of a $40 million lawsuit brought on by new york attorney general eric schneiderman. there's an entire industry devoted for-profit demonstration. joining me, mr. cohen. and a professor at nyu. co-author of the book "creating the opportunity to learn. and a former trump university student and plaintiff in the lawsuit. the phone line is open for donald trump shall he wish to respond. how did you hear about trump u.? what did you sign up for? how much money tdid you end up spending? >> there was an advertisement for the three-day program. trump is very well known to be very successful in real estate. i had just been let go from

citigroup because of the financial collapse. i was thinking about changing careers. i decided to invest the $4,095, and take the three-day program, with the understanding we'd be learning basics for investing in real estate. >> did you learn basics in rell estate? >> there was a lot of information at that seminar. we learned something. it wasn't enough to get you started but it was enough to get you entice to sign up for other programs they were offering. the team seemed like they had done very well. there were pictures of cars they had purchased and homes they purchased with all the money they made in real estate, so they talked about these additional programs you could sign up for, $10,000, $20,000, $30,000 worth. with access to different programs and services. but -- >> did they convince you? did you sign up for them? >> i signed up for the $10,000 bronze elite program. >> there a$10,000.

that's a lot of money. >> well, you thought you were getting some access to hard money lenders, access to foreclosed property listings, access to mentors and guides. >> these were the tangible things they told you you were getting. >> i was supposed to have access to three seminars, instructor led. some point during that time that i had enrolled -- after i had enrolled they decided to move those to online. and they were not instructor led anymore. so. >> you were at $11,000-plus. >> that's correct. >> can you afford that? >> can anybody really afford to lose that? no. >> donald trump maybe. >> maybe. >> pedro, there has grown up an entire universe of for-profit education. i don't want to obviously paint the entire field with one brush. obviously this is -- we're talking about if the allegations by the attorney general is true, this is is a fraudulent bait and switch enterprise and there are all sorts of those in different industries. that said, it seems to me we have an entry now, people are told from president obama on

down, everyone, you got to get an education if you want to make it, if you want to climb up the social mobility ladder in this country. and we have an industry that's come to fill that fwgap and it' not clear to me that is very well regulated, that there's oversight or it's giving people what they say they're getting. >> that's right. there's very little regulation on this field, and there are lots of students who would -- like this lady who were trying to advance themselves, willing to invest money that they don't ha have, even go into debt. it's a shame. it's understandable they would want to better themselves but also there should be some kind of public accountability on these institutions and that's lacking. >> he mentioned debt. the attorney general talked about them telling you to max out your credit cards. was that true? did that happen to you? >> over a lunch break they encourage you to make the known calls so by the time you got back to lunch you would have increased your credit limit. i opened a new car. my credit score went from 802 to

700 and something. >> they were telling you to increase -- max out your credit cards or take out new lines of credit so you could have access to capital for real estate deals. >> for those just last minute, right. >> can i just say this? people watching this saying, why did you do this? why did you listen to these people? what is your response to those who say, i'm sorry this happened to you, bullt come on? >> well, you know, first of all, trump is very well associated with successful real estate. you thought you were learning something. there was a university named behind it. there were instructors coming in and out of that class that seemed to know a hell of a lot what they were doing. when you're around knowledge, you want to be around knowledge for that. so you thought you were buying into something. >> congressman, my understanding is is you introduced legislation to kind of work on regulating reining in this entire sector. do you feel like when you have adequate oversight of it?

>> we don't. not until 1992, could these for-profits get federal funds. there was a 90/10 rule, had to get 90% of their moneys. they had to get 10% from other sources. >> before you continue, i should make the distinction is my understanding trump university, itself, didn't qualify for that because it wasn't registered with the state as an educational institution, so it was completely off the table. there are other ones that are for-profit that are registered educational institutions that have students that qualify for federal loans. >> they get federal loans, accredited by national agencies. department of education, arne duncan, has tried to get stronger regulations. they were -- they had stronger regulations, but the district court struck them down. >> and they also got lobbied. this is a great story. >> this is a mark leeb vich story. i don't agree with everything mark said in this town. he's right here. >> the author of this book "this town." >> when you look at the graham family that used to be known for a newspaper that jeff bisos has

now. kaplan university is one of those for-profits that has a lot of students default. most of their students don't get degrees. they defa falfault and get the from the federal government. the purpose is to get money from the federal government. this money could be going to students who are going to matriculate at not-for-froprofi schools and/or go to pre-k. >> community college is available to people. you know, i, again, it makes sense to invest in your education. the problem is these companies as you pointed out advertise widely. they make big claims about being able to promise people access to better jobs which typically turn out not to be the case. and so it's true that the individuals should be a better consumer, but it's also true that there are a lot of vulnerable people out there who are being preyed upon. >> limited resources we have in what these moneys are basically being flushed. the president said they're getting away like bandits on

saturday. he's right. they have dusters just like the james boys. >> sema, let me ask you this. you o'we $11,000 to trump university. >> six months into the program, i won my money back. i decided this wasn't going to be a road i can pursue with the limited amount. they changed the course structure, and i opened my own jewelry business in the sbrinte. i wanted my money back. they said, you know what, if you're opening your own business, let's give you entrepreneurial mentorship. i fwrgraduated from college, i e an mba from nyu. i have faculty access. i could get mentorship at no charge. at any event, they gave me this entrepreneurial. that's what i got from my $10,000. >> they have that money. >> with no jewelry experience. yes. >> is that your jewelry right there? >> yes, it is. >> everyone, check out that

jewelry. congressman steve cohen, pedro noguera, and sema cekinay. that's "all in" for this evening. the "rachel maddow show" starts now. >> if you wanted to get ahold of donald trump, why didn't you get ahold of me? >> next time. thanks to you at home for staying with us the next hour. okay. when japanese pilots turned to kamikaze attacks in world war 2 it was meant to not be only effective in a direct sense, but also terrifying. the piloted aircraft used as a missile could obviously do great direct damage to whatever it hit. the psychological effect of being up against an enemy who would do that, a military that would expect its own men to deliberately kill themselves, was also just meant to terrorize, to make their enemies believe there was nothing they wouldn't do, no elevenlengths t would not go to. when iran and iraq went to war with each other in