tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 17, 2013 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
this is the business sar reality that lies behind the events coming in october. by pushing to kill the affordable health care act, they are pushing to kill the obama presidency. and that attempt could cost them their one chance to change history. thanks for being with us, all in with chris hayes starts right now. . good evening, from new york. i'm chris hastes, tonight we know the names of the victims of our latest national mass shooting nightmare. this time it was 12 adults eating breakfast beginning their workdays and this time the national response has been reduced to the one thing the country's political leaders seem capable of pulling off, a moment of silence, just as they have done every single time we have faced this horror. >> members and those in the
gallery will please rise and observe a moment of silence for the victims of the shooting at ft. hood. >> a traumatized nation, observes a moment of silence. the president and first lady led. after aurora, congressman ed pea pearlmutter. >> and after newtown. >> mr. speaker, i would ask that the house now rise. >> the chairman asks all present to rise and to observe a moment of silence. >> but in the wake of newtown, the silence broke as president obama did more than just observe a moment of quiet reflection. >> these tragedies must end, and to end them we must change.
>> reporter: the white house was ready to act. the president signed 23 executive order on gun legislation. the white house began a full corps press on harnessing public opinion, moving lawmakers into their column. but the nra also went to work. having developed a script for how to deal with these almost routine moments of massive gun violence. first lay low for a couple of days, then move the discussion to other factors like mental health. >> given our nation's refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill. >> reporter: and violent video games. >> vicious, violent video games. >> reporter: then just go to town on legislators. the nra and it's legislator arm spending pro gun lobbying by $21 million and rallying their
members to deluge congressional offices. this time, though, it looked like the game plan might actually fail. even senator joe manchin of west virginia, a pro gun democrat with an a-rating from the nra, a man who got elected with this campaign ad. that joe manchin took the lead. manchin worked with the nra to write a -- >> the gun control legislation goes down in the senate. >> reporter: but after helping author this weakened alternative measure, the nra turned and and essentially killed that bill along with all the others. because this is what they do. and when the white house's attempt at gun safety went down to defeat, the normally unflappable was anything but. >> a all in all this was a
pretty shameful day for washington. >> reporter: the state by state score card is hardly any better. since newtown, four states passed laws for a limited measure of gun safety. but gun safety measures in ten other states are in the process, many of them stalled. >> the nra wasn't satisfied with their efforts and one of the few states that passed a gun control law, colorado, the nra found its next target, two state senators who in a remarkable act of political kurjs supported three gung safety measures, including background checks and limiting magazines to 15 rounds. those two lawmakers were recalled, the first recall in the state's entire history. that recall in one part of the nation, just six days before another shooting horror played out, this time in the nation's capital, and today, in the well of the u.s. senate, the majority leader of the united states senate did just about all he
could do from that position. >> i wish we could do more, but i do ask that we now ask that the senate now observe a moment of silence in honor of the victims in the navy yard, those killed and those suffering from the wounds inflicted in that terrible day that occurred not far from the capital. >> without objection. >> with me now are former state senators john morris and angela herron, both democrats from colorado. i have to ask you both how you are feeling having lost this recall six or seven days ago, watching what played out yesterday. senator herrone? >> well, chris, obviously certainly disappointed here in colorado six days ago, but knowing that those laws still exist a and they will go on and
colorado did some great things in this last legislative session. but of course, i would want to give my condolences to everybody at the navy yard, victims and victims families. and like you, and i'm sure like john, we're tired of having to do this, these moments of silence. so we will not stay silent. we're going to be talking about this and we're going to continue to confront the nra. >> senator morris, what is your take away from this? i think a lot of people have drawn the lesson that the nra wants you to draw. mess with us and you'll be recalled. >> again, the price that we paid politically is so small in comparison to what these families are paying. and now we have 12 more or arguably 15 more families that are going to have to pay this
cost. i think as leaders, we need to stand up, recognize this as something we can prevent and we have a duty to prevent it. so that nobody has to go through this instead of just ceremonily saying that is too bad. we ought to be taking the stand to make sure that it is. and each of those legislators around the country, ought to look into those families' and those victims' faces and say to them, there's really nothing more that i can do. see if they can do it, because we couldn't do it. >> one of the things that is perverse about the discussion we have about legislating around gun safety, senator giron, to get it passed, it has to be fairly tailored and fairly marginal around the edges. then there are things we can do
around magazine capacity or certain kinds of weapons and perversely, advocates of maximum gun rights turn around and say that's not going to stop a person who's intent on doing harm. what do you say to that argument? >> in fact we know that in this particular case, that this man who went and gunned down people would probably not have passed a background check had he went to purchase some firearms. so, i mean, what we have said all along is that, there is no perfect law, but certainly, universal background checks, which 90% of americans agree to and believe in, as well as 60-some percent of nra members. and limiting magazines, we know that in some of these shootings and these massacres, these huge rounds, 100-round magazines,
that when they jam, it really gives them opportunities. so we do know it can make a difference. >> senator, morris, do you think you were defeated by the gun lobby or by gun owner? i think that sometimes we who favor more gun legislation -- was this a product of the gun lobby or were your constituents really angry at you for the vote you took? >> in my view, it's 100% the gun lobby. they bought the signatures to force the election in the first preys. they sent flyers before the signatures were gathered. they paid for television advertisements. they did all kinds of misinformation and disinformation very deliberately. i'm a gun owner in my district that actually say we can be responsible gun owners and it doesn't mean that we need to fully arm our mentally ill to
where when they want to create mayhem they can do it quickly and easily. i don't think it was the gun owners in my district, i think it was more the nra, they whipped up the frenzy like they always do. >> what is the recipe for defeating them? i think you are sick, and senator morris is sick, the president is sick, everyone watching this is sick of this absolutely brutally macabre national ritual that we have these once in a while and we shake our heads and we move on. what is the solution to beating the nra, to beating the gun lobby? >> we'll continue to expose the nra for what it is. it is no longer a gun owner's organization, it's a manufacturer's organization. that's how they're benefiting. if you look at the board members, they're all manufacturers, they're all making money. i think the more we can inform people and inform nra members
got what's really going on here. it's just follow the money and people are dying because of greed and their continuing effort to convince people that more guns equals more safety. look at where this one happened, you couldn't have had more guns and men that know how to use them. our seats were taken away, serge not on our terms, but our voices will not be silenced and we'll continue to be out there beating this drum. because for me, i went to the state legislature for many other issues, this was not one. but i have been probably forever branded with this, so i will be out there continuing to be able to let people know what's really going on here. >> you didn't choose guns, guns chose you. thank you very much. yesterday, as word spread
about the shootings, everyone started creating a mental profile of the perpetrator. i know you probably did, i did. today we find out how he lived, up to some of our expectations, but also the surprising details of a veteran and buddhist that committed mass murder. i'll be joined by two friends of his in a minute. ndependence. ensures support, a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like. sooner than you'd think. you die from alzheimer's disease. we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call or donation adds up to something big. when you do what i do, iyou think about risk.. i don't like the ups and downs of the market, but i can't just sit on my cash. i want to be prepared for the long haul. ishares minimum volatility etfs. investments designed for a smoother ride. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors
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for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. we have really been hearing directly from you on our facebook page. if politics were no obstacle, what would actual comprehensive meaningful gun safety legislation actually look like. we'll be right back. neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history...
he just had this new passion for life. so he was trying just to get out on his own and secure a good, decent job. >> it hurts because we considered him part of our family out here. and it just hurts us to think that he would do something like that. we don't understand why he would snap and do something to this magnitude. we don't understand. it's just -- we don't understand. >> i spoke with those people earlier today. they knew the man named aaron alexis, they were sitting in the same texas restaurant where he once worked, the same spot where he sits in this photo that was released today. they called him a friend. more details emerge about the man said responsible for this shooting. it is a picture that in some ways that confirms and in other important ways con founds the protime of what kind of person does this kind of thing.
alexis was not a loaner, he was a practicing buddhist. he was a guy who liked to watch cooking shows on tv. while others would say she was paranoid and delusional, with a long history of anger and gun possession, which is said to be the deadly combination that took 12 people's lives. the navy reservist was cited at least -- the pattern included an arrest record but did not prevent alexis from receiving low level security clearance good for ten years from the navy in 2008. as nbc news reports, it's unclear if the government didn't know or wasn't concerned about alexis' prior arrest. he told police he had experienced an anger fueled blackout, did not remember the incident until later. in 2010, alexis fired a shot into a neighbor's floor into his
apartment below in ft. worth texas, alexis told police his gun had gone off while he was cleaning. alexis was never convicted of anything and was not legally prevented from buying guns. just last month, alexis checked into a rhode island hotel and called authorities to complain he was hearing voices and being fa followed. the people he believed were following him were also using a microwave machine to send vibrations and prevent him from sleeping. three weeks later, alexis sought treatment from a nearby v.a. hospital. it would have been illegal for the v.a. to report that he was seeking psychiatric treatment. and we have the author of the book "columbine." i want you to talk about --
before that, though, i was gutted by this report today about him calling the authorities and saying people were vibrating his bed and he was hearing voices. because one of the rituals that we go through in this horrific national pattern of watching mass shooting happen is we talk about mental health. and sometimes it seems actually not that grounded in the facts of the matter. it's just one of the things we do to make sense of it. now we think we're looking at someone who is genuinely mentally ill and we all recognize he needs help. >> in fact i have a public apology i need to make about one thing. i did not refer to him by name, but as the goon that did this, and was meetly chastised for that. the point my mentor dr. aukberg
said, we have to treat these people differently when they turn out to be mentally ill. clearly in this case, he was. we need to put them in a whole different category, treat them much more simple threatically, people are going to hate me for saying that. >> this gets to bedrock stuff about where we draw the line between an affirmative defense without being not guilty because of mental illness, when we see someone like lanza or the boys of columbine, but you're saying that different than -- >> i have spent so much time with a psychologist talking about these kind of people. i'll tell you one kind of way, we don't know if this was in this case. where it's not necessarily that they don't understand what
they're doing, but sometimes they feel voices are inside their head, like different forces are inside their head and taking control. and they're in terrible fear. they live in terrible fear. and the biggest fear come frost the fact that it comes and goes so. they have really lose sid days and they know the bad days and the days i'm doing the bad things, it's oh, my god, it's coming back. >> and that's what unique about this record. i was talking to his two friends earlier today and they're just talking about a person who was a friend of theirs, and then we have these episodes that sound incredibly dark and foreboding, particularly when we know what he did later. we are talking about the shooting because there is a human desire to get to the bottom of it. you said let's just not name these shooters, if there was an a aspect to this that is performance. why did thyou write that piece?
>> i've been doing this for a long time. >> this is 13 years of doing this. and you must feel sick of it too. it's like oh, we should call dave cullen because another one of these happened. >> sometimes i really hate that. you know, i think in the beginning, and i call columbine the beginning, buzz that really moved us into a different era. it took us from killing typically one or two people into these events, killing 15, 20, 30 and adding bombing and trying to kill hundreds sometimes. and really into a whole different phase. and really raising the stakes where they're always trying to too much each other. and we in the media i think contribute to that without realizing this by keeping score. by saying this is the biggest thing since blah, blah, blah. i found myself saying the five
biggest have been in the last fife years. that's communicating to potential people, go big or go home. >> this is a mark of importance, that actually there's something really sick about what we do in covering it. and of course, it is the way that we are making editorial decisions about the news worthiness of something because there are 15 people shot in urban centers around the country every day. >> exactly. >> and the theatricality of this is what changes your mind. does it change your mind to think that someone actually was serving from prediagnosed mental i illness? >> it's not necessarily a direct driver, or even a conscious driver. it's not like oh, i want to be on"america's got talent." it's not that desire for fame as we often think of fame. it's more like an option, i'm
lashing out, i need to do something out there. >> i have seen some behavior modeled and this is something i cling to. >> yes. sunday night's football game was delayed for an hour because of the threat of lightning in the sky. and i'll explain what that has to do with gun violence, mass shootings and our collective response coming up. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us. does it end after you've expanded your business?? after your company's gone public?
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yard shooting yesterday on my way to work. there were headlines, about three shooters dressed in f fatigues on a naval base. i thought we were witnessing a hometown terror in the u.s. military. what the recriminations would look like, what a huge dominating story it was likely to be and how we would cover it. then as the morning rolled on, that initial reporting was proven to be wrong. there was a single shooter a former naval reservist who now seems to have had pretty long history with anger, gun issues and mental illness. the story shrank not because the story of the -- because of the way we as a society and political system have come to look at this kind of violence.
president obama issued a proclamation, ordering flags flown at half staff as a mark of respect to the victims of senseless acts of violence. >> such violence, such evil, is senseless. it's beyond reason. >> what exactly, i always wonder is the opposite of senseless violence, the kind of violence we can comprehend and make sense of. violence tied to some kind of ideological -- bashar assad gassing his own people. he was attempting to brutally win a civil war and punish everyone even remotely associated with the rebels. al qaeda -- seen as an act of war and mass murder executed by
evil radicals who wanted to destroy america and make us citizens count. it had purpose as monstrous as that purpose was. when we encounter violence we ski as having a purpose, we marshall political will to fight it, to prevent it or punish its perpetrators. when we encounter senseless, we succumb to -- when we hear a story of a friend's cousin who skied at 30 of cancer or someone struck by lightning. president obama was asked about this feeling of helplessness during an interview today. >> are we condemned in this country to live in a country where massacres are just part and parcel of our daill daily existence? >> well we don't have to be.
the american people understand that there are some common sense laws that we can put in place that prevent some of this tragedy from happening. >> yet those gun control laws are not forthcoming. it is the great success, the sti singular success of gun advocates, not just of mass shootings, but most shooting deaths into the category of the senseless. there are more than 31,000 of those gun deaths in 2010, the most recent year on record. but we shoulding accept that, because human progress requires that we do not accept the category of senseless rather than -- steal people in their prime from us and we have developed laws and engineering solutions. we even work to prevent deaths from lightning. the nfl showdown between the niners and the seahawks, the
most watched tv show of the week, was put on pause for an entire hour, while a thunderstorm rolled through the area. they stopped the game to protect the players's safety. but then again, lightning doesn't have a lottery, does it? what happened yesterday will happen again. if such incidents occur at the same pace for the rest of obama's term as it has since 2009, there could be 14 more before he leaves office. and yet when the president spoke briefly about the navy yard shooting before speaking about the state of the american economy, five years after the collapse. belt way media and republican opponents were quick to criticize him. one republican opponent said most expect the president to act as commander in chief. the facts is the president was just acting the way republicans and the nra and most of the
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congress was finally set to tackle the controversial stand your ground laws, that is until a mass shooting just a few metro stops away. what one of the witnesses called to testify would have said, coming up. but first i want to share the most awesomest things on the internet today. nearly 32 million views on youtube. it's become such a click free staple we probably don't even need to remind you how it goes. this weekend, the ohio
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league took a comprehensive look at stand your ground laws. states with standard your ground laws have seen a 53% increase in justifiable homicide while at the same time states without stand your ground laws had their rates of homicides decreased by 5%. it's justifiable homicide rose 200%. trayvon martin's mother, sybrina fulton was one of the witnesses set to testify in the stand your ground hearings. and a florida man also claiming he did nit self-defense has not been widely recorded. he opened fire on a group of teenagers in the vehicle next to him after a dispute about their music being too loud. from where i was sitting, a shotgun was coming at me. he ordered a pizza with his girlfriend, it wasn't until he turned on the tv the following morning he discovered he had
killed 17-year-old jordan davis. legal observers expect him to use the stand your ground defense law in his trial which is now set for february. thank you so much for joining us in my absolute condolences go out to you on the loss of your son. >> what would you have told the committee today if you had been able to talk to them? >> i would have most assuredly let them know that unless we enact some common sense gun legislation, things such as what happened at the navy yard yesterday will continue. the individual crimes will continue, the mass murders will continue and we have got to take a stand as citizens. we have to use our voices and we have to get our legislators
because we are the constituents, we have got to get them to understand that they are accountable to us and that if this is absolute necessary, they cannot turn a blind eye to what's happening in the country. >> you traveled to washington, d.c. to testify and that says to me that you think there's some hope that that building behind you can be responsive to testimony such as yours. what do you have that path after all we have seen? >> i have no other choice. i have no other choice. what's happening in the country, most assuredly what happened with jordan, it's heinous. i do not believe that our country was founded to be evolving into the violent culture that we are now. i don't believe that by any means. and i know that, unless we act,
we're going to self-destruct. >> there are people who have pointed to the zimmerman trial and said in that case george zimmerman didn't even invoke the kind of -- stand your ground is a side show, it's not really an issue. it's only applicable in a very small amount of cases. what do you say to that? >> that is absolutely not the truth. if you look at the statistics specifically in florida, most of the stand your ground days cases after it was enacted in 2005. 52% more chances and the ability for people to stand behind the law and use the law as a loophole to shoot first and ask questions later. the stand your ground law is
definitely just something that is just completely destructive and it has to be amended, repealed, whatever we need to do. >> thank you so much for joining us, i really appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> we'll be right back. run, go, go! did he just fumble? "i" formation! "i" formation! we have got to get the three-technique block! i'm not angry. i'm not yellin'. nobody's tackling anybody! we got absolutely... i don't think this was such a good idea. i'm on it. if we can't secure the quarterback center exchange... you're doing a great job, coach. well they're coming along better than i anticipated.
very pleased. who told you to take a break? [ male announcer ] want to win your own football fantasy? just tell us. then use your visa card for a chance to win it. earlier in the show, we asked you if politics were no obstacle, what would comprehensive gun lettingation look like? >> if politics were not an object, i would want semiauto and auto guns banned completely forever. from patrick daly, the sad thing is there is no easy answer. guns should be for sport or home defense where you don't need huge clips or firing capacity. we'll be right back. [ ding ] ♪ but finally, it happened. perfection.
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278-year-old police officer randall carrick did not have a louisville right to discharge his weapon and shoot ferrell. >> knowing how it happened, does that make it worse? >> yes. >> but i do forgive him. >> you do? >> i so forgive him and i pray that god bless him, but i do want justice. >> over the weekend, 24-year-old jonathan ferrell, former football player at florida a&m was shot a and killed by florida police. an unarmed man seeking help after a car crash over the weekend was shot ten times by the charlotte police officer who's now charged with his death. joining me is my colleague alice wagner and mile wiley, founder and president for the center of social inclusion. what is your reaction to the jonathan ferrell story?
i got so angry and upset when i read it. >> angry and upset and seeing the link between stand your ground. police departments are spending a lot of time figuring out how not to let the carrick's happen. there's 26 police chiefs in this country right now trying to figure out how to make sure black people aren't shot because they're feared for no reason. and we actually aren't doing the same thick for civilians. >> so we have a situation in which, and we talked about it yesterday, we talked about a study of new york city police officers, one study over a period of time, 34% of the bullets that they discharged actually find their way into the person they were trying to hit. that is the actual study of new york city police officers discharging their weapons. >> my first reaction was, that's
tragic. and also how was it the stories of the vulnerable and the victims have become sort of dismissed nationally as the stuff of folklore and happenstance. and that the laws are created around their pre-emptively punitive and they don't take these stories into consideration anymore. and these are seen as outliars when they are more often than not the norm. >> and what we see here is the classic case of suspicion hanging on the black man. he's in a car crash, it's early in the morning, he knocks on the door for help. she calls the cops. >> all right, 2:30 a.m., i might slam the door in his face, that's not really the issue. it's calling the cops on a potential break in, we don't even know there's a break in. and he's been in a really bad accident, where he probably had to crawl out of the back window, the car was so smashed. but this is breathing while
black. >> so here's what's going to happen. we are faced with a world that is a river of sorrow. and it is -- and you and i sit here, and we fish certain things out. you know, bad things happen every day, and across the street over at fox news, they went on this crazy summer long thing where they were like any time a white person or assaulted by an african-american, it was like that was their lead story, right? and so what do you say when you turn around and say why are you making a big deal out of this person, the cop happened to be white, the suspect happened to be black. what is the response as to why this is legitimate? >> do you care whether black people who are innocent are being killed? and there was an innocent white victim. there are people who are white who are kimmed in this country
who shouldn't be. you're 345% more likely to be acquitted if the victim is black. >> this comes from what we were talking about in the previous block. when an older white man shoots a younger black man with whom he had no prior relationship. the shooting is determined justifiable 49% of the time. yet when a black person -- >> that's the whole problem here, is that context is taken completely out of the eindication. and that, i think is a bastardization of justice. and also prosecution and the criminal testimony that we have in the united states. i mean the idea that race isn't a part of this is not an accurate -- that -- sorry, go ahead, chris. >> no, no, i agree with you. you were right. >> it was even more bizarre because some of fox news commentators, sean hannity being
one of them, saying that black people benefit from stand your ground when it flies in the face of the facts. are we going to have an honest conversation about what's happening to people or not. >> there's a defense crouch that's almost built into the position of those at fox news from the beginning, regardless of how justified it may or may not be. >> and that defensive crouch is what we have seen in the aftermath of these shooting. that is the feeling that everybody has to kind of run to the barricades, and one side is more successful in those barricades, those that defend maximum gun laws wins all these battles. one of the things i always want to say here also, is that the con text is, violence in the this country is going down and crime is going down. that's an amazing things. we are making progress. because you have to preserve the sense that there's light at the
end of the tunnel, that we are marching towards something that's better. >> a lot was made about the trayvon martin case, as we all know. i think the fact that the president started to speak about race -- as a statement about the reality of race in this country at this time. it was -- i don't think a lot of people sort of outside in america understood the importance of what happened there and what that meant to black america. >> yes. >> and i also think that -- so, calling us to a better, higher more constructive conversation about race, one of the things we should remember is that everybody has one. everybody has one. >> not me. >> you guys might, i don't know. i'm sitting here invisible,
transparent. >> we're only talk about people of color if we're talking about race. we have to look at how we're all impacted and we have to make sure that we're all getting taken care of. that means anywhere we see disproportionate bad stuff happening, no matter who it is, we should pay attention to it. we should pay attention in d.c. when these 15 people get shot. we should pay attention when black people are dying, that 45 all people killed in gun violence are black. >> i talked earlier in the show about what's senseless and what's not senseless. what we can make sense of. like that 45% number is not accidentally connected to the fact that we're not doing that much to make sure that that's not going on. and those two things don't sit next to each other by accident, right? there's some sort of deep connection in the way we think about who has value, alex wagner, host of "now" as i do
every day at 12:00 eastern here on msnbc and my friend maya wiley from the center of social inclusion. that's all for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts right now. we have some breaking news from the "new york times" about a key detail about how the shooting at the naval yard in d.c. happened. the times reporting tonight, the apparent shooter aaron alexis, tried to buy an ar-15 military style semi-automatic rifle from a virginia gun store last week because he was stopped from buying that particular kind of weapon because of a state law that prohibits -- while he was at that gun store, he did test fire the ar-15, he expressed interest nit. but because of that state