tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 26, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PDT
they knew their strengths and how to find common ground, they knew how to move this republic forward, and that made all the difference. that is "hardball" for now, thank you for joining us, "all in" with chris hayes starts now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, there is a lot to cover tonight on "all in," but we begin with the senate voting 100-0, unanimous vote, never happens, right? bipartisan comedy, we see it right here. moving forward so as to avoid a government shutdown. and that is how ted cruz stood on the floor saying he would do whatever he could to stop it from going forward. but because his fake filibuster was a foregone conclusion, you have to understand what he did, not his legislating, but his
performance. >> now, number one, just as a consumer, i'm a big fan of eating white castle burgers. you know, almost all of us are in cheap suits with bad hair cuts, who cares? could you, would you, most americans couldn't give a flying flip, i would be happy if a single story came out never mentioning my name. i confess i really do feel embarrassed by that. and i this i i can, i think i can, i think i can. no, you can't, i think i can, no you can't, we can't win, you can't stop. >> ted cruz' latest filibuster is the latest skirmish is what rush limbaugh calls the fight for the republican party, it
shows who has the upper hand. >> it doesn't matter what state you go to. you can go to any state in the union. washington is pretending not to know. >> you see the promise of ted cruz was that he could unite the two wings of the party that are at each other's throats. the ruling class that is catering to the 1%. in the beginning, the establishment had had great expectations for ted cruz, in 2008, they gave him the cover, calling him the "next great conservative hope." others say he is as good as it gets as a candidate. "the daily beast" asked in 2012 is ted cruz going to be the next barack obama? what made him so appealing is he has the instincts of sarah palin
with all the credentials of mitt romney, only ted cruz could keep the hot side hot and the cool side cool. as the base and the establishment have clashed over everything from syria to immigration reform, cruz has deftly avoided offending either side, but yesterday he offended the establishment. >> just like in star wars movies, the empire will strike back. >> and then, senator palpiteen took the floor. >> to somehow allege that many of us are not or haven't fought hard enough, i think does not comport with the actual action that took place on the floor of the senate. >> now, if you were not sure that ted cruz was casting his political fortunes in with the
base, all you need to do was follow the money. according to "the daily beast" today ted cruz' fake fight against obama care is making millions, noting that the campaign, the senate had its largest non-election fundraising to date at one and a half million dollars. the republican party's donors, on the other hand, were not impressed. buzzfeed said it could cost him millions, reporting they are rolling their eyes at the long-shot attempt to keep the controversial health care law from fully going into effect. with his 21 hour filibuster, ted cruz declared his allegiance to the rush limbaugh-listening party. so it is no surprise that he called rush limbaugh first. >> what is not surprising is how
many want a show boat to contend to their constituents, to show what they're fighting for, rather than actually fighting for it and winning. >> joining me, robert costa, a cnbc contributor. robert, what is the fallout in. >> it has been devastating for senator cruz within the senate republican conference. there is a lot of frustration when i get to his colleagues, they say he is launching a political campaign, doesn't have many allies in the base. >> does that mean the idea does change? to the extent there was a plausible strategic imperative here. does it mean the momentum would gain -- i have no idea, that democrats would vote to de-fund obama care, i guess? is this just going to go the way everyone said it would go? when you listen to senator cruz on rush limbaugh and you
highlight it in your introduction, it is not so much about the end game. this is about how conservatives and republicans handle the divided government. how they look at divided government. how they want to interpret it and manage it. and if conservatives like cruz want to push hard, while the john mccain wing of the party say we should deal with reality and push for incremental change. >> there is breaking news right now, a reporter got his hands on what the house gop is planning to do on the debt ceiling. and here is the irony, after everyone said what ted cruz was doing was crazy and a stunt, out comes the plan to deal with the debt ceiling deadline, which we know now is october 13th, according to the treasury, that is as unthinkable as delaying to a obama care, that idea is exactly as dead on arrival as ted cruz' plan is. >> right, but just step with me
into the conservative world. this is the reality that john boehner is dealing with. the more rational move right now, the better decision is to actually fight for a debt limit battle, maybe even put default on the line to get concessions from the white house, you and i discussed it before. doesn't seem like the best play for the republicans, but for the speaker establishment of the republicans that seems to be the best play on the table. >> and much higher factor, orders of magnitude, running through that deadline -- precisely that reason that i think that john boehner thinks he has more leverage there. but i just can't see under any circumstances the white house negotiating towards delaying obama care, so that seems more ill-fated. thank you very much. let's turn to congressman chris van hollen, ranking member. what is the game plan here?
>> well, chris, we don't know what speaker boehner is going to do at this point. he has been very close-lipped about it. the question is if he will try to attach another unrelated provision to the bill to keep the government running, whether it is related to obama care or something else. if he does that, it will be a clear signal that he is really working hard to shut down the government. and remember, ted cruz has gotten himself a little isolated on the senate side. but over here in the house, you have a lot of ted cruz es, and so far -- >> they kind of wrapped their arms around him and gave him an atta-boy. >> of course in the senate, he is a minority where there is a minority party. but in the house, the ted cruzes, they have their hands on the steering wheel so far.
that is why speaker boehner has not told us what he is going to do because he has not checked with the tea party caucus. as you mentioned, he is moving to double down on the debt ceiling which would create huge damage to the economy. >> i'll talk about that in a second, but you as a member of the house leadership have literally no idea what is going to happen in the next three days in terms of what speaker boehner is going to bring up for a vote? you have no idea? >> that is exactly right. and in fact, we have asked and the answer that has come back is, they don't know yet. and as i say the reason for that is speaker boehner can't know what his plan is moment to moment or day to day without consulting with the ted cruzes of the house. they're running the show. >> tell me, the plan that is leaked out to the press, the plan for the next crisis. the strategy here if folks are paying attention, john boehner
wants to get past this crisis which is to try to get a continuing resolution passed with the promise that he will be extra tough on the next crisis of the debt ceiling which is october 17th, where he feels he has more leverage, and is far more apocalyptic, is that dead on arrival? >> that is totally dead on arrival. think about what would apply, the diversion to already millions of americans that are already benefitting from the affordable care act, kids who are no longer denied care because of pre-existing conditions. but on top of that it would exclude people from insurance, if you were to say the mandate doesn't apply for a year. what happens to premiums? they go through the roof. so that is just not going to happen. and to hear the speaker say he is going to double down on that should cause great concern to
people throughout the country regardless of their politics. >> from a perspective, you could reap political gains by just running the experiment and letting the disaster flower, but of course millions of americans would be hurt and you're not going to do that. thank you, congressman. all right, next, joining me steve kornacki, i find the rift in the republican party fascinating. and it is one of those things that is a cliche, but it is a very real thing, getting more intense to the point where you see substantive clashes like syria intervention, and up until now i felt that ted cruz was very deftl y walking the line on this. >> in the give away a few months ago when ted cruz had the speech where he talked about the squishes. he was up against the squishes in the senate who won't fight
hard enough and compromise too easily. i take your point on the rift. i don't see it as a real rift in the republican party, because substantivy, everybody in the republican party says that the obama care is a terrible plot that needs to be repealed. the question becomes tactical, and it really plays into ted cruz' hand, because he can say the only difference between me and bob corker is i'm willing to push it forward. >> here is the thing, he sides with the base on a tactical thing that is not going to work, but on the reform, for syria, he was careful not to be out ahead on anything. rand paul took strong positions, chris christie took positions largely on the establishment, why ted cruz?
>> because i think he is purely driven by self-interest. this is a non-ideological fight on the obama care, he has defined himself as the one voice out there against all the squishes who say it can't be done. he is willing to fight. he doesn't need bob corker or john mccain giving him cover, he needs the club growth, they're all with him so far, if he loses the big dollar donor, he will make up for it with -- >> herein lies the fascinating thing, if you look at the last two primaries, you have john mccain and mitt romney, they were the squishes. because those guys who were eye-rolling, the ones that were in the room when mitt romney made the 47% comment. sarah palin was not the nominee, she didn't even run.
michelle bachmann, sarah palin, she didn't even run -- >> i have been waiting since the prelude to the 1996 republican primaries, when bob dole and john mccain loses, that is good. i have never seen the frontrunner, the establishment struggle the way romney did. they were never going to coalesce, 2012, rick santorum was able to get to 12 primaries -- >> he was plausible. >> i think cruz is a lot more plausible as a republican nominee than anybody that romney came up against in 2012. >> do you think we'll see a race towards more cruz-ism? has this been a political victory or a disaster? i think you can declare it both ways. >> what he did last night was in
a way defensive, because he screwed up last week, last week he said it was just going to die in the senate. it allowed his opponents in the republican party to finally say you know what, he is not fighting as hard as we are. he had to put on a show to show the base. i think he re-gained his footing with the base. the telling thing to me, most of the voices in the republican world are not off the record. that tells you, i think the thing you really need to know. >> steve kornacki, you can watch him saturdays and sundays at 8:00, on "up with steve kornacki," a good slot. i watch it. and coming up, what many call a genius award, what he was doing years ago may have come as a surprise to most republicans in congress. stay with us.
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>> that was california surfer jason green who we can't get enough of in the office. he is the man that they have used as the face. they centered on him, to members of the house. house majority eric cantor encouraged his allies to spotlight the surfer, to the 39 billion cuts to food stamp program this month. the congressional budget office said it would cost an 8 million people their food stamp eligibility if passed into law. they sent an e-mail, saying they cashed their food stamps in lobster, the fellow republicans took it from there, here is randy harris before the vote. >> this is a common sense reform
that cuts waste, fraud and abuse, leaving more money for the americans who truly need help in time of need. >> what the heck does that graphic say? i don't even know, at the heart of the republican argument that the idea of the use of food stamps is exploding because people have been lured into the use, it is all surfer dudes and lottery earners. yet, only 3% of the food stamps were trafficked, and much of it going on is people trade are their food stamps to store owners for cash. 1/6 of the country is receiving it. it has far less to do with the great recession than the obama administration. nearly half of the households headed by females with children live in poverty. in 2010, 75% of food stamp households include a child orderly.
and today's headlines give us the perfect count, news that dancer and choreographer kyle abram will receive a stipend to follow his vision. while kyle says he still needs to raise money for his dance company he now has the freedom to make art without going hungry. we await the fox news documentary on his life. meanwhile, joining me is mr. genius, if i can call you that, congratulations. how does this feel, what does it mean for your work? >> oh, man, it is crazy, i can't even get into how blessed feel, just knowing i can pay off my student loans, it is insane, from graduate school and under-graduate school, thinking
about paying my rent, a and thinking about all i can do for my company, you know, we just started getting health care for my company, that will be in place, and knowing we have the cushion. >> three years ago you were on the snap program. tell me about the circumstances that led you to go onto food stamps. >> sure, for me it was a really hard time. you know, i was actually touring a good deal, but mostly as a solo artist and doing a lot of commission work. so dance companies or colleges might call me and ask me to make a dance for them. but there is definitely a lot of time when i'm trying to spend money on the company and trying to make sure, i can support and provide for my dancers as much as possible, so we can create work as much as possible and tour whenever possible. but i think it was that, and also thinking about my father, who at the time was needing a lot of care. and trying to figure out how i can help out my family and eat a meal, and pay the student loans.
it was just so hard, and really stressful for me to try to do all of those things and make art at the same time. >> and you were only on for less than a year, and then you moved out of it, which is what most recipients are on for a temporary amount of time. what is your reaction when you see this kind of caricature that has been created about these lazy moochers that are getting over on the taxpayer. >> well, ultimately, i don't know his story. that is the message there, we don't really know the stories. the government needs to get to know the individual a little bit more before they can take something away from them. and i think a lot of people are ashamed to ask for help. it is such a huge step, to know that knowingly, people don't want a handout for the rest of their lives. people want to be able to take care of themselves. >> what does it mean that you were able to go from a true area of economic hardship, and to follow your passion and genius, if i can use the word, and be on
the other side of the rainbow? >> it keeping me to stay humble. i will never forget where i came from and where i'm still trying to get to. the irony is, this is a six-year thing that i will be undergoing. but i need to make sure that i'm constantly keeping an eye on where the money is going so that we can build some kind of stability for our company and have a long career as a dance company. >> kyle abraham, congratulations on your program, we really appreciate it. >> thank you so much. >> we'll be right back.
green eggs and ham was possibly the worst analogy ted cruz could have used during his anti--obama opportunity. i'll tell you how he mangled dr. seuss, and what he actually was trying to say. and we'll give you an update to what at one point was the anthem. once it reached the sorry saturation point of fitch.
of all the people respect the world, these folks seem the most shameless, discovering what the fox actually said, we must return to nature. at least in someone's back yard, the fox having chased the dog says this. [ screaming ] wait, what i really want to know is who told abercrombie and fitch they could use my ad. and also known as six castles that cost less than an apartment in new york city. castle number one, at nearly 14,000 square feet overlooks the country side. priced at a million, 621, but for just a little more money you can get this 1200 square foot apartment conveniently located near nothing interesting. this ten million castle, for the
$00,000 more, this four-bedroom town house in brooklyn, with the potential of a back yard, but wait, there is a castle in france, for this, for nearly 3 million, everything you want in a house, minus the house, just an 80 x 20 foot lot, garden hose not included. and as read by brian cranston, the star of "breaking bad itself. >> i am holed up in my apartment, watching all seasons of your show. i am in love with it all. and what this amounts to is that right now i'm fantasizing about having sex with aaron paul. yikes!
[clicks mouse] there's doughnuts in the conference room. there's doughnuts in the conference room. automatic discounts the moment you sign up. >> we're going now live to the junior senator from texas, ted cruz, who last, i heard, was reading green eggs and ham. >> and i will eat them in the rain and in the dark and in a car and on a tree. they are so good, you see, so i will eat them in a box and i will eat them with a fox, and i will eat them in the house, i will eat them anywhere.
i do so like green eggs and ham. thank you, thank you, sam, i am. >> so that happened last night. not to say it was one of my all-time favorite moments since the show has been on air, ted cruz has gotten quite a bit of attention for his dramatic reading of dr. seuss' green eggs and ham. mr. cruz explained he was reading the story to his daughters, and some cruz fans couldn't get enough of it. >> and reading the story to his daughters, i thought was great. he is a dad like everybody else. if you think about green eggs and ham, it is kind of like trying to force feed you something you don't like. >> while a children's book containing 50 entirely different words may prove challenging for some, the message of green eggs and ham is entirely different from the message of ted cruz, the story is not about force feeding somebody something and
hoping they like it, green eggs is about trying something new, being open to chance, it is about a guy who says he hates something, he hates it irrationally, and finally when coaxed into tasting it, he likes it. in fact, it is a perfect metaphor to something that republicans haven't even tried yet, and that they might like it. now, the irony here is the fact that dr. seuss was a big lefty, a fighter for social justice, and environmentalist. he promoted literacy, he is pretty clear with his message. as a pbs documentary pointed out his true genius may lie in the fact he wrote with such skill and humor, few realized he was being political at all. he was also a cartoonist, and addressed the issues of the day. here is one he produced when the
republicans in congress were trying to tear down roosevelt's new deal. they were saying we're just going to knock out the necessary floors designed to knock out fdr, as relevant today as when it was created in 1942. so ted cruz may believe he was using dr. seuss to burnish his credentials, he didn't like demagogues, all is not lost for senator cruz, in some ways he is a dr. seuss character, kind of a cartoon character who sort of parodies his character. you can imagine him being in a dr. seuss book. he may be a little lonely, he pointed out if i were invited to a dinner with my characters, i wouldn't show up.
if all you were watching and listening to in the last 24 hours was senator cruz bloviate about the new health care law which begins on tuesday, a train wreck in motion that will bankrupt america, then you probably missed this headline. that is that premiums on obama care will be significantly more lower than expected. from obama care to the cleveland plain dealer, insurance exchanges set to go.
coverage rates here will be lower than expected. even the houston chronicle got into the act with the headline that read "texans to have an array of insurance options" all that coming from the state's insurance report. that premiums will be 16% lower than previously projected. this is precisely the possible reality of obama care, with the ted cruz 20-hour plus talkathon was designed to obscure. for the last two years, we have been intentionally subjected to questions about how congress is exempt from it, which is not true at all. ezra klein will join me in a moment, with facts from "the spin." but there are more talks about a job killer, here is the senator. >> who is talking about how obama care is forcing more and more people into part-time employment.
every day the headlines come in. more jobs lost. more people losing their health insurance. more premiums going up. more people pushed into part-time work. the american people want obama care stopped because it is not working. it is killing jobs and pushing people into part-time work. >> now, take a look at job charts since president obama was sworn in. lots of jobs lost and a slower recovery. but you don't see is any inflexion points around the passage of obama care, as far as it pushing more people into part-time, this chart shoots holes in that theory. there was a spike in the recession before the obama care became the law of the land. since that, the part-time obama care has actually trended downward, the notion that obama care is causing part-time work is simply not the data. joining me now on the eve of its full implementation is washington post columnist, ezra klein.
can we start with this labor, job killing program? you get the fact it is killing jobs, responsible for slow job growth in the recovery, and also pushing people into part-time work. is there any reason to look at the data and think it was a true hypothesis. >> it would be remarkable if the market anticipated obama care and shed those jobs. it did not kill jobs, it is not even working at the moment. it doesn't not begin to deliver insurance until january first. the one part that was legitimate is this idea that there is a rule on employers who have more than 50 employees who work more than 30 hours a week, they have to offer health insurance. and if they don't, they have to pay a penalty. that is fine for most of them. most offer health insurance already. but for those who it is not, they may push employees into
part-time work so they don't count as having 50 full-time employees. number one, we're not seeing any change in the part-time data. but that has been delayed for a year, and republicans could get the obama administration to end the permanently. so no, there is not much reason to believe any of this. when the obama care comes into existence, the firms that create jobs are young firms. one element, they may be starting up something new, take a risk, they will be able to do it without worrying their kid wouldn't lose health insurance going forward. >> there is also this myth, one of the things i found fascinating about the politics developing, this is a government take-over, basically this means massive changes for everyone. and of course the democratic party and the people thread the needle of getting the politics to get this passed was to assure this was not a government take over, and if you liked it, you
could go forward. take a look. >> if you look at the nations that have socialized medicine, every place it has been implemented. you see low equality, scarcity, and long waiting times. you see the government getting in the middle of doctors, once it pays health care, it controls health care. and that has proven to be the case in every country in the world. >> what is your response to that? >> i don't know. i don't know how you say the french and german and canadian and japanese systems are low quality. i don't know how you keep a straight face and say that. these are excellent health care systems that cost typically a half of what ours cost. one thing about that is you can't say it is that. obama care takes over if you want to use the government take overlanguage. i think we used the graphic here, the 5%, the folks not getting insurance through
government or their employer. and the uninsured, or at least part of the uninsured market. that is kind of a direct -- the government directly -- taking over about 7 or 8% of the market it doesn't have control over now. even in that part of the market, even there where they're having the most direct effect, there is not even a public option with the public insurer pushing out the public sector. people are still going to be buying from cigna, blue cross or blue shield or kaiser. not to say there is not government regulation, but the idea that it is a government takeover? >> what about the cost question, i am fascinated about the cost question. people seem like they're really debating a thing that we're going to find out pretty soon, there is a spirited debate that premiums will shock people. premiums wouldn't shock people. well, we can kind of wait, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
what about this claim that this will actually spike the dental premiums? >> there are two sides of it. what we do know that the cost of health care in the last two years has been lower basically any time since we kept records. incredible, some of it is due to the recession, but not all of it. at this point, health care experts believe that the health care is having an effect on that in part by pushing the pay for quality reforms, so that you're paying more for quality, not just volume. there is a lot going on. but so far from what we can see it is being very successful, or at least part of something that is being successful. then there is this premium question, 7% of the market, this individual market that is served by the exchange. it is not my employer, not medicaid, it is a very tiny fraction. as the earlier mark showed, that is not to say everybody will pay a lower premium.
if you're younger and healthier and fairly well off you will probably pay a somewhat higher premium. but if you were older and sicker and possibly were not allowed to get insurance, even if you were turned away by your company, you were paying a high price, you get a much, much lower price. and given there is about a trillion dollars of government subsidies coming into the market paid by rich people and parts of medicare, you have most of those people paying quite a bit less than they would for health insurance. >> i saw fox running a hilarious apples to oranges, no guarantee around it, no regulations. of course without the subsidies, you also get turned away from those. this is the key thing, people go on these, saying oh, it is 12 dollars. >> ezra klein with "the washington post." thank you so much.
right now, thousands of government workers are laboring to put the finishing touches on what is the essential health care pyramids of our time. and we're going to be introduced to what they look like on october first. for more on that, let's turn to valerie kusch, and josh barrel, politics editor for business insider. the discussion is so mired in these myths, there was an actual project happening. when i read this, i was awe-struck about the scope of what these thousands of people inside hhs and cms have to build.
they have to build new markets and regulations. what are you worried about in terms of implementation in the non-medical category? >> the patients i take care of who don't have access to health insurance finally have options available to them. i think some of of the challenges that will surround many of the individuals who never had health insurance before in their life. they're going to have to get internet access and fill out forms and provide income information that may be a little complex for folks. there may be language barriers, hhs has taken steps to solve the problem. >> their first form was something like that 25 pages, everybody said -- they took it back, and i think took a three or page form. they have been very responsive. >> i think they have been incredibly responsive, there are people in states who have been trained to help to get people enrolled.
so hopefully we'll see a few bumps but not too many. >> what do you think in terms of non-mythical snags? >> the thing you have to verify, whether people are eligible for subsidies, or have to go into exchanges. there are a lot of computer systems that have to talk to each other. >> and they have to postpone when the actual pricing is going to show up, because the back end calculations they are doing, which are relatively complex because of all of these different factors they have to take into situation, they have to postpone it because they were not working. >> people wouldn't be able to buy plans until mid-november. most people are probably not going to go buy right on october first. >> like waking up on october first. the plan is not effective until january, or february. >> so there is no particular reason to buy right away. if the delays stretch out, some people will not get coverage as
soon as they should be able to. >> it is important to note that in the first year, the exchanges will be open for enrollment into march, which will not be the case for subsequent years. there were indications there would be bumps in the road. >> and part of the fascinating back story, the idea here, it was kind of a very states-first approach. kind of a federalism where okay, you're the state. you guys craft this health care market that is going to work for your people. and because of this anti-obama care, the federal governments are going to have to run a whole lot more of these than they originally projected. >> and one interesting thing they will see, the federal government is running a few of these, more with the partnerships and the states. we'll get to see whether the state-run averages run better or worse than the state averages. the whole thing will probably be a little bit of a mess. >> one of the things that ted cruz and republicans have delighted in raising is the issue of unions in their relationship to obama care.
there is a number of unions that run big multi-employer health plans. and those health plans will not qualify for the exchange subsidies that are available to people that are not in big health plans as of now. unions are angry about this. what does this say to you, somebody who is a democratic candidate and a doctor and a proponent of the law? >> well, i think the important note is that union members will still have their insurance. generally speaking, those are high quality plans with excellent coverage. and should they lose their jobs, they will be able to go into an exchange and get a plan. you know, i think that is the biggest difference we'll see october first, when somebody loses their job as of today, they are out of luck as far as insurance goes. and that will not be the case with this coverage, they will be able to get affordable coverage. >> how about the transparency you will see in the coverage. one thing coming out in the
report is that hhs has been surprised, especially the levels of participation by the private insurance companies that want to get into this market. what is your expectation? >> well, i think that is going to vary state by state. i think it will always change, they are making assumptions about who is going to buy insurance plans. i think one big concern about the law is we don't know how many people are going to decline buying insurance and just paying the penalty. and if you have young and healthy people opting out, you may see insurance premiums rise, that it could get fixed. we need to keep an eye on it. >> i just have to say we have that experiment already happening in massachusetts, where just about everybody, i think it is 99 point something percent of people. as a doctor, i have very few people saying i don't want insurance, they are counting the days before they can get insurance. >> well, massachusetts had fewer when romney was governor, it is an unusual state.
great to have you both here. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> good evening, chris, thank you for joining us this hour. happy hump day. william jefferson clinton, bill clinton, was elected in 1992, look at how young they were. he did not win a huge proportion of the vote in 1992, because there was a third candidate, ross perot was running, and bill clinton won enough to unseat the incumbent president at the time, he ran to unseat papi bush. he ushered in not just his own presidency, but unified democratic control of washington, democrats controlled the house, the senate and the white house.