tv Martin Bashir MSNBC November 5, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
the u.n. and george soros is going to do it. joy reid is in for martin today. >> darn it, we can't blame a.c.o.r.n. it's tuesday, november 5th, election day in america. and who says this is an off campaign year? ♪ >> election day, 2013. >> one of my favorite days of the year. >> two key governor races prompting all kinds of gop soul searching. >> it's the first major race between the forces of the new republican tea party. >> would not be here if he were 50 points behind, about to be your next governor. >> i'm pleased to be here for him. >> i hope you guys are fired up. >> this is a referendum on obama care. >> it's a referendum on obama care. no to obama care. >> passing the law was the easy part. >> terry mcauliffe is scared to death of what obama care is doing to terry mcauliffe. >> there has been so much noise and misinformation. >> we need to make his fears come true. >> on one night, the whole country is looking to for
leadership. >> some may go down tonight, but it ain't going to be jobs, sweetheart. you're going to see something that hasn't happened in this state in a generation. >> i've got one more campaign in me to make sure this laws works for every single person in america. ♪ the chills that you spill up my back gave me satisfaction when we're done ♪ ♪ satisfaction of what's to come ♪ >> greetings and happen election day. as voters across the nation cast their ballots for more than 300 new mayors, more than 200 state legislators and decide more than 30 ballot initiatives in 6 states. we're also monitoring a major political story north the border where toronto mayor rob ford is expected on cameras any moment the same day he admitted at long last to smoking crack cocaine in office. will he resign? we'll find out short. but back home, have no doubt that today's races will send key signals for 2014, 2016 and beyond.
particularly in a tale of two governors' races. virginia and new jersey. and what a relief it might be for president obama to have won re-election and put the affordable care act as a campaign issue well behind him. >> i have run my last political campaign. but i'll tell you what, i've got one more campaign in me. the campaign to make sure that this law works for every single person in america. >> no, just kidding. the health care law still a major campaign issue. and as virginia's attorney general tea party hero ken cuccinelli filed suit against the affordable care act, the very day the president signed it, and he hasn't let up since. >> virginia is a referendum on obama care. let's send them a message, and say no tomorrow to obama care, as it is or anymore. >> unfortunately for the kuch, that whole referendum thing doesn't look like it's going to go the way he envisioned it.
a quinnipiac poll shows democrat terry mcauliffe leading cuccinelli by six points among likely voters and that gap widens to a crater among women who favor mcauliffe by a 50-36% margin. it's all clearly horrifying to tea party champions of so-called liberty, and the candidate who built his campaign against health care reform, against women's choice, and even contraception and don't forget, really, really, really, really, really against sodomy. he can hardly bare to think about all of those who might garner benefits from a democratic win. >> unions, and planned parenthood and michael bloomberg. and it's radical environmentalists who want to squash our economy. but we need to find back. >> take a hard look at that list, kuch. you and virginians might not be fighting on the same side. but not to worry. should have plenty of time to think it over tomorrow. let's get right to our panel. joining us from charlottesville is larry saab atoe, center for politics and author of "the kennedy half century.
and here in new york, ari melbourne. and that enemies list, michael bloomberg, unions, who else is ken cuccinelli fighting? it does seem he has tried to array an enemies list that would galvanize his right wing base and it's not working. he's still probably going to lose. >> i don't think it's working. as a political matter, there is some chunk of the total turnout machine there that will respond angrily to some of those names. and in the last virginia election, a 35% turnout and 58% republican victory. the problem is, things are shifting. if you have high turnout today, as we have seen from what we might expect, then it looks better to the democrats. >> and larry, what happened in virginia? it does seem like the republican party is a step behind the dramatic changes in that state which has gone from a red state to a purple state to really almost trending toward being, you know -- we can't maybe say a blue state, but it does seem to head in that direction.
and how do republicans miss it? yeah, joe, i'm calling it bluish-purple. i don't think there is a crayon of that color but there should be. look, you know, i think the republicans clearly have not adapted to the new demographic realities in virginia. and this is just the latest example. i mean, after all, president obama carried virginia twice. virginia has two democratic u.s. senators. and we'll see what the results are tonight. but every indication, from polling and other things that we have, suggests that democrats are going to do very well this evening. so, you know, it's not as though it's just one election. you can always explain away one election. parties are very good at that. but this is a series of elections with the same result. and so the question really is whether republicans are going to listen not just to the electorate, but a lot of their own members, who have defected in this campaign, business people, many republican women,
former republican elected officials and some current ones. i mean, really, how many signals do you need? >> you've written a lot about this. larry makes a good point. there is some hard-headedness of republicans, just the way they decided on these candidates, rather than going to a popular vote. they have sunk to zero on one strategy to counteract this, and that is good old fashioned voter suppression. >> yeah, i think you've seen that. it's funny, mcdonnell is actually a mix of this. cuccinelli has been hard core on everything, including issues around voting access. mcdonnell actually seemed to suggest a different direction, and he talked about restoring some voting rights to former felons who are disproportionately african-american, and that's a voting pool some people think by estimates would probably be more democratic. and that really is on one issue the sort of -- the sort of irtext of this campaign, where mcdonnell has been a slightly more moderate republican,
cuccinelli has gone to the right. what does that remind us of? all the moderates who are being sort of hunted down and bullied by the new freshman republicans who see themselves in the house as the next generation. and that goes to a larger question. look, you can't read too much into one state. having said that, it's true that virginia was 53% for obama, just like the rest of the country. to, you know -- to professor sabhato's points, it's light blue place coming out of republican roots. and that is what's going to scare republicans around the country, if you have a big mcauliffe victory. >> all politics being local, was it a mistake for mcauliffe to nationalize the election? obviously, he has to do something to get out the hard-core conservative base. but was it a mistake for him to take these conservative positions, even on state issues, rejecting a $600 million transportation bill. was it a mistake to not remember that all politics is local? >> well, you know, i've known ken for a long time.
he actually was a student of mine in the late 1980s at the university of virginia. ken is ken. and he was determined to do it his way. from the beginning. he was never going to retreat on any of these issues. so the real question was why did republicans choose him over a candidate, the lieutenant governor, the two-term lieutenant governor, bill bolling who frankly would have won today. why did they pick cuccinelli over bolling? well, because of ideology, they would say principle. and my answer would be, you can principle yourself to death. >> and you know what's interesting, ari, as a result of the pluralization of the party, you've had this battle over surrogates where terry mcauliffe who in and of himself is not necessarily that popular but able to call upon the super surrogates, former president, current president, hillary clinton, ends up with the top-drawer surrogates and cuccinelli with the b-team. and i know that probably poor marco rubio is stunned to find
he's on the b-team but he is. >> and not to hate, but i think i've heard sympathetic voices, five different diplomatic ways to refer to the fact that terry mcauliffe is not the most popular democrat around. and we have talked about the numbers, which are more unfavorable than favorable at this point. although he does look -- again, we don't know yet, but looks like he could win this thing, even with in that unfavorable and that i think goes to your point and the larger dynamic here, which sits not personalities alone. particularly with an electorate like virginia that is close to washington, that is catching some of the back draft, if you will, from the shutdown, from sequester cuts early and other parts of the country. the sequester is not a long-term, viable governing strategy for republicans. but some of the things, the science cuts, education cuts, will take years for everyone to figure out. with virginia and number of jobs there that do relate in some way to what washington does, that's hit a lot earlier. and guess what, it's hard to sell the main line right wing republican party agenda.
it's hard to sell it, even to a very moderate electorate. >> and even harder to sell it in basically the suburbs of washington. hard to be anti-government in that context. thank you both. coming up, the other governor's race everyone is watching. we will look to the garden state and chris christie's re-election campaign. plus we're keeping an eye on the podium in toronto, where the mayor there is expected in front of cameras at any moment, the same day he admitted to smoking crack cocaine. crack co cane on the job. stay with us. as a working mom of two young boys life could be hectic. angie's list saves me a lot of time. after reading all the reviews i know i'm making the right choice. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. with honest reviews on over 720 local services. keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i don't have time for unreliable companies. angie's list definitely saves me time and money.
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to smoking crack cocaine on the job as mayor. will the embattled mayor resign? we will find out soon. but now, to today's other big governor's race, and republican strategists from coast to coast are hoping they have a 2016 champion in governor chris christie. the red face in a blue state is cruising to an almost certain re-election victory, although just as when he spent $25 million taxpayer dollars to separate his election from corey booker's, chris christie is leaving nothing to chance. >> who did you vote for? >> listen, i made that mistake one time in the seventh grade, i voted for the other person, lost by two votes. i'm never doing that again. i voted for myself. >> and he's probably right. because the bully version of chris christie keeps resurfacing like when he berated a teacher saturday for daring to challenge him over his education record. and that probably cost him the votes of at least a few new jersey educators. what's more, despite the rap tourous media adoration among
republican politicos he's enjoyed up to now, as stories of christy's past begin to surface, the garish controversies lurking in his record, a victory will lead to closer scrutiny of the christie record. and joining us now, karen finney, host of "disrupt with karen finney" and steve kre naki. christie has this reputation he developed in the media as this moderate. is he really as moderate as people are portraying him? >> no. and that's the thing. i think when you look at what republicans and really conservative republicans will be asked to swallow with chris christie in 2016, it's not as much of a leap in terms of all of the major boxes you need to check off to sort of be a republican today. like abortion, you look at guns, issues like this. he actually checks off all those boxes. i think back to rudy guiliani and the run up to 2008 and the
whole story was can this new york city liberal republican win over the republicans nationally. that was a real leap for republicans. i think there is a reputation with christie as a moderate that's been very beneficial to him politically. and would be very beneficial to him politically in a general election. but i think he is a lot more sellable to the republican base than people realize. >> much more conservative. and i want to look on the other side of that, karen. the "new jersey star ledger" endorsed chris christie, but it was kind of a backhanded endorsement and called his opponent deeply flawed, barbara buono. i'm going to read a little bit. said his achievements have been only modest, he's hostile to low-income families. his ego is entertaining but done damage, as well. christy is overrated. his spin is way ahead of his substance. so if on the one hand to steve's point, he's actually more conservative than he seems and the base might like him more, is it also the case that democrats who are sweet on chris christie and voting for him now might like him less the more they know
about him? >> absolutely. here's the thing you need to remember. the intense scrutiny and pressure of a presidential campaign is like nothing any of these guys have ever faced before. and they think they have. he thinks he's tough. he thinks he's a bad ass. but you know what, when you get into the big leagues and they start combing through piece by piece all the bits of your life, you're going to see that ill temper coming out a lot more. and i think he will be far more accountable for his record. what he has been smart about, though, as you pointed out, he had a good political strategy. he separated out the election, because he knew he could not -- it would not be a good thing for him to be on a ballot with cory booker and he also has been able to emphasize part of his conservatism to the relevant conservatives in new jersey, and sort of deemphasize that with the democrats and moderates he needs to pull in. he's very adept at being able to do that. but again, in the context of a presidential campaign, it's harder thi than you might think. >> steve, i was looking earlier
and pulled out some of the numbers. christie beat jon corzine in 2009, 48.7 to 44 points. 45 to 49. really not a blowout, right? but barack obama won new jersey 58-40.9. i get the sense that chris christie isn't -- hasn't really been tested against' a strong democrat. barba barba barbara buono is not exactly a strongim democrat. he is an untested commodity with a full democratic base on the table against a strong opponent. >> yeah, i would say, although to put it in context, that four-point victory he had in -- the second highest margin of victory for any republican statewide in new jersey in nearly 40 years. so the fact he did that was somewhat monumental. and i know democrats in new jersey and even to an extent nationally, basically to this day. at this hour, on this day, four years ago, they were saying, you know, democratic turnout, barack obama has made three visits, corzine is going to be fine. and there is a reason why he is sitting so pretty today.
there is a reason why he's going to win by such a big margin today. sandy is the biggest individual reason. but even before sandy, looking at a governor whose approval rating was up 50, 55% or so. what he has a gift of and i think democrats really i think need to take this into account, they think about chris christie in 2016. he has the same sort of economic message that like mitt romney had last year. if chris christie runs for president, it's the same basic economic argument. mitt romney, though, came across as a top 1% candidate. mitt romney lived up to every caricature democrats wanted to make, with the jets, everything about mitt romney. chris christie can sell a top 1% message to the bottom 99%. to the other 99%. and if you look at some of the areas where he has done really well in new jersey, it's not the sort of hoyty toity suburbs no n morris county. this is middle sex, jersey, near the meadow lands. and that's what democrats have to recognize. >> he comes across as a every
man. we are looking at live pictures of the toronto press conference area where mayor rob ford will any minute be coming out. we will take that live when it comes. but i want to stay with the panel on chris christie. karen, one of the other things chris christie has going for him is more support than would be normal for a republican among minorities and he'll probably do very well among black and hispanic voters, no small part thanks to shaquille o'neal. but in a general election, i think this is a fascinating question. i won't take credit for it, perry bacon, my colleague at the grio asked on the phone this morning, if chris christie were to run against hillary clinton in a general election, who would win? and you might be biased, but who would win? >> hillary clinton. >> in new jersey. in new jersey. i'm sorry, in new jersey. >> in new jersey -- i still think hillary would win. because i think that, you know, part of the problem with barbara buono and i know we're giving chris christie a lot of credit. he did spend a lot of money, but she was not just not a good candidate, but there were a number of opportunities and this is what i heard from democrats in this state, she really missed and really could have made more
of -- like the fact he spent taxpayer dollars to separate out these two elections. she didn't really make much of that. so i think part of her problem was she just didn't inspire many in the democratic base. hillary clinton is somebody who will inspire democrats across the -- you know, across the board and moderates and i think some republicans. so in that context, i think part of the problem with bueno is she just never seemed like a viable real candidate that people could get excited about. >> whereas hillary clinton totally would. she reminds me of martha coakley. but the same question to you, steve. given that hillary clinton would take advantage of every single opportunity, would inspire women voters, would challenge chris christie. okay, he's doing pretty well, got 9% of the black vote in 2009. but with a real democratic candidate, who could inspire the base, who would win in new jersey? hillary clinton or chris christie? >> if we're looking at that angle, the question people put out there, if they could win new jersey in 2016 in the general election, that's gravy.
the state they're telling republicans and they want the political world to think is pence. they think chris christie could beat hillary clinton or another republican and pick off oh pennsylvania. >> even though the clintons have that history in pennsylvania. >> but pennsylvania on paper is the one that -- romney got down to 3.5, 4% last time. pence is the one that's a lot more of those sort of -- white working class voters that -- can be peeled off from the -- i do wants to say something quickly in barbara buono's defense. she got served up by her own party. i don't think this is a problem of barbara buono of being a deficient candidate. i think she did the best she could. she was working really hard on this campaign and her own party sold her out. that's part of the success of christie. the democratic party -- where was chris christie last night? with suzanna martinez in new jersey getting national stories written about how he's courting the hispanic vote and latino vote. he'll do well in union city today. the democratic mayor of union
city, state senator named brian stack has been part of chris christie's plan in new jersey from day one. brian stack gave him votes on the pension plan. brian stack endorsed him in this election. brian stack invited him to union city last night. brian stack sold out barbara bun skbro and democrats like brian stack. all over the state sold her out. this is not barbara buono being a bad candidate. this is democrats sold her out. and need to answer for. >> to that point, cory booker, right, you almost have this quasi background alliance between him and chris christie. to the point where the two of them didn't even run against each other. not that that was booker's doing, but there is this sense that democrats in new jersey ceded the governorship to chris christie. >> i don't disagree with that. and look, i'm not saying necessarily i think barbara buono is a bad candidate. i'm just suggesting i don't think she made enough of an argument or didn't catch on with voters. and sure, some of the democratic party establishment didn't do what they could have done to help her. but at some point, you know, if you're the candidate, you have got to be able -- people have to
be able to see you as possibly winning. and if you can't make that connection, and you can't, you know, connect with voters in that way, i mean, that means something is not there. so, you know, she was working hard and all of that. but at the same time, something was missing, and chris christie is a larger than life figure. you know, he is a bully. he uses that, you know, sort of bravado to kind of seem like he's the, you know -- he's one of the guys, very blue collar and all that. that works in new jersey. as i say, i don't think that that's going to have the same kind of broad appeal in 2016 that he's banking on. >> it's interesting, to your point. the president and vice president, hillary clinton, a full-court press in virginia for terry mcauliffe. not the same thing for bueno. >> absolutely nowhere to be seen. i think back to the late -- devious republican strategist, but lee atwater, passed away in 1991, one of the last things he said to george bush senior, there's this guy down in arkansas running for re-election
this year. and we've got to look out, we've got to look out and take care of him this year. because he's going to be a threat to us in 1992. and national democrats and certainly democrats in inning but national democrats looked at this governor's race in new jersey this year and said we don't want to be associated with a loss. and chris christie is going to come through tonight and win by a very, very big margin and he is then going to get three years to run around the country saying the state that went for obama by 17 points, i turned around and won by 20, 25, 30, whatever the number ends up being, his most powerful talking point and democrats gave it to him. >> a permutation of what happened in massachusetts where the national party, probably because they thought they were going to have it. thank you very much, steve kornacki and karen finney. you want to catch both on the weekend and every weekend, "up with steve" at 8:00 a.m., saturdays and sundays. and "disrupt with karen finney" afternoons at 4:00 p.m. we take a quick break. we're awaiting that news conference with the mayor of toronto, rob ford, who earlier today admitted using crack cocaine. ♪
>> with today's announcement, i know i embarrassed everyone in the city, and i will be forever sorry. there is only one person to blame for this. and that is myself. i know that admitting my mistake was the right thing to do. and i feel like a thousand pounds have been lifted off my shoulders. i can't explain how difficult this was to do. i hope -- i hope that nobody, but nobody has to go through
what i have gone through. i know what i did was wrong, and admitting it was the most difficult and embarrassing thing i have ever had to do. folks, i have nothing left to hide. i would do anything, absolutely anything, to change the past. but the past is the past, and we must move forward. i want to be clear.
can't do anything else but apologize. and apologize. and i'm so sorry. i know -- i know i have to regain your trust. and your confidence. i love my job. i love my job, and i love the city. i love saving taxpayers money. and i love being your mayor. there is important work that we must advance, and important decisions that must be made. for the sake of the taxpayers of this great city, for the sake of the taxpayers, we must get back
to work immediately. we must keep toronto moving forward. i was elected to do a job, and that's exactly what i'm going to continue doing. in 2010, i made a commitment to toronto voters. i have delivered on that commitment, and i will continue to deliver on that commitment of saving taxpayers money. but they have a choice. we live in a democracy.
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from capitol hill to the latest to the last campaign, here are today's top lines. your mockery is entertaining. >> if there is anything we can do about this obama care thing -- >> passing the law was the easy part. >> are we on the right track? >> like my colleagues, i'm frustrated. >> oh, yeah? >> there's a little bit too much of this partisanship. >> controversies make use? . >> maybe we ought to find ways to work together.
>> there has been so much noise and misinformation. >> whiskey tango fox trot on my website. >> that's a joke for the media. >> if we could know how many hamburgers and cars and records have been sold oh everyday. >> hmmm. this is a tasty burger! >> why can't we know how many people are enrolling in obama care? >> now, if you have or had one of these plans before the affordable care act came into law -- >> i think it's very confusing. >> what we said was, you could keep it. >> are people really don't know. >> if it hasn't changed since the laws passed. >> no, that's not what you said. >> say what? >> that's not true. again. >> i think it's rotting it away. >> that is not what he said. >> i would like to go back to exactly what the president said. >> everybody should have affordable health care in this country. >> your mocking is entertaining, but the president said -- >> you've got a preexisting condition, they've got to take
you. >> the notion that you're safe now from being kicked off your policy -- >> no more dropping your policy. >> i don't think those things have penetrated yet to the public. >> no more lifetime limits on the care that you can receive. >> with all this attention, they might actually have to sell the plan in order to keep it going. >> i've got one more campaign in me. >> and people might finally then realize what's actually in it. >> the campaign to make sure this law works for every single person in america. >> let's get right to our panel, and joining us now is the "washington post" jackie kucinich, and james peterson, director of africana studies at lehigh university. james, the president has said this is his last campaign. what does that campaign need to entail in order to right this ship on the affordable care act? >> that's a great question, joy. i think it needs to operate on multiple fronts. i think part of what he was saying last night is important here, which is to say he's got to talk about what the affordable care act already does
in terms of removing limits on health insurance for people who are sick n terms of not removing the capacity for insurance companies to discriminate, people with preexisting conditions. and with the cost control measures taking effect, like medicare. he's got to talk about what it already does and secondly the exchanges. and i think they've got to bring to the floor more of the data about how insurance companies operate. about the fact they give really crappy insurance policies to some people, or at least they did before the affordable care act. about the fact that people get dropped from their insurance sometimes for reasons we would think of as being insignificant prior to the affordable care act. and that people sort of have -- enter into a system where they don't have advocacy from the government or anyone else in terms of the insurance marketplace. and so i think those are some of the things that the president has got to talk about. what it's already doing, sort of give the best context within which the affordable care act will be received well. and i think that will go along
way towards making his last campaign a successful one. >> and daphne, it really is a shame that so far in, the president's job is to fundamentally explain what the affordable care act is, and how insurance works. that seems really odd. but if that is a problem for the white house, it seems to me it's equally a problem for republicans, that they don't really seem to have an alternative beyond bashing the website. i want to play a piece of john mccain. he was on jimmy fallon last night. and this is what he said about the republican approach to the affordable care act. take a listen. >> we republicans need to think of ways to fix it, and give our agenda. okay? >> of course. >> we've got to have a positive agenda as to what we want to do about health care in america. >> so jackie, is that right? do republicans -- can they not get enough mileage out of just attacking the website? do they need to actually put forward their own plan of how they would insure the 40 million or so who don't have insurance. >> i think right now if republicans could just be quiet and let this rollout continue to
not be great. i think it's -- the focus is much more on democrats. you saw that during the senate hearing today. where democrats were the one asking the questions and saying, listen, this is a disaster. you need to fix this. or this thing isn't even going to be able to fund itself. senator barbara mikulski said it was a concern of conscience. and she said if young people don't come to this website and just kind of write it off as being broken, this thing won't even be able to be paid for. so there are a lot more problems right now with this site than republican criticism. and with some of the messaging the white house has put out. so republicans -- could just be quiet and let this happen. >> but is that going to be enough? at the end of the day, people do want to be insured against catastrophic health emergencies. are republicans going to be able to dine out on the website forever? don't they have to say they actually do care about getting people insurance? >> well, when you do -- >> they don't care, joy. >> when you talk to republicans, they do have plans out there. they're not necessarily pushing them right now.
because it would be a nonissue. the president is not going to repeal the affordable care act. he's not going to sign anything, it's not going to get passed in the senate. we saw them vote 40 times to repeal in the house. more than 40 times. so, again, it's about the possible and at this point, that's not even possible. >> right. okay. well thank you so much. i'm sorry we don't have more time. but unfortunately, rob ford, explaining his use of crack cocaine took up an inordinate amount of time. thank you very much. coming up, we will discuss the long, strange political crisscross of charlie crist and talk to one gubernatorial candidate who is challenging him for the democratic nomination in florida.
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people can get to know in the same positions as jeb bush, and rick scott. >> well, let's talk about some of those positions. i know you're getting a lot of support from women. are there issues around women's health, around abortion, around gay adoption, for instance? give us substantive issues that trouble democratic voters. >> well, i think definitely the war on women should trouble
democratic voters, and i believe it will. we have had -- it will be almost 16 years of three republican governors, and our state shows it. i think, first of all, of course, we have women's health issues. but we also have issues relating, as you mentioned, gay adoption, civil rights issues, women's rights, gay rights. these are all important issues to women. and i think, actually, i think women are going to make a huge difference in this election. because their priorities are different. and i am someone who is focused on issues, on priorities and solutions. so education is probably going to be the number-one issue in this state. >> okay. we're very pressed for time. so i do want to ask you one more question. there is the issue of fund-raising. obviously, governor christie is going to raise a lot of money, you'll have to raise a lot to counter him. there was a story in the "miami herald" that talked about rick scott backers to put money into your campaign. is that something you would
accept? would you be willing to take money from people who really back rick scott but want to derail charlie crist by backing you? >> i will be very pleased to accept money from people who wish to push my campaign. >> even if they're rick scott backers who -- >> the primary will be another election. but the first election has to be the primary election. and i have to be made the nominee before i can get to the general election. >> all right. >> i don't really know that this will happen. but as i mentioned before, there are -- i have a two-tier strategy. one, of course, is fund-raising. you must have the resources but you also i believe have to have the grass roots support. and that's what i've been doing. i have an incredible network of volunteers, dedicated people around the state of florida who want to see a change and want to see a new direction and don't oh want to see the same old ideas and plans and attacks on our public education system. and that's why i am running for this position.
>> thank you very much. i'm sorry we are pressed for time. best of luck to you, nan rich. >> thank you. coming up, we'll debate the affordable care act, straight ahead. on the table by not choosing the right medicare d plan. no one could have left this much money here. whoo-hoo-hoo! yet many seniors who compare medicare d plans realize they can save hundreds of dollars. cvs/pharmacy wants to help you save on medicare expenses. talk to your cvs pharmacist, call, or go to cvs.com/compare to get your free, personalized plan comparison today. call, go online, or visit your local store today.
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the lines on the affordable care act have been clearly drawn. but, of course, the issue surrounding the rollout are never so black and white. and here to debate the gray areas of the health care law are, i'm pleased to be joined by lonnie chin, former policy director for mitt romney's 2012 presidential campaign and brad woodhou woodhouse. i have to al apologize, we are very short on time so in a rapid-fire sense, loni chin, we have heard the problems conservatives have with the affordable care act, and the website. but what would republicans offer instead, if they could craft a health care law for the 40 million uninsured? >> i think there are three things, joy. first of all, you've got to have a way of dealing with preexisting condition
exclusions. second of all, you've got to figure out a way to get health care more affordable, focus on costs, and finally, figure out a way to deal with medical liability reform. and that also gets at the bottom line issue on health care, which is the cost of ha health insurance. >> so you said tort reform. changing the second thing you said, tell me the three again. the first one is dealing with preexisting conditions, the affordable care act does that, right? >> correct. >> if you were to change the tax treatment, you also have people getting bumped off their insurance, because that would actually change the cost structures for insurance companies, right? >> well, no, you wouldn't. depending how you did it, you could make it seamless. this is one of the problems with the affordable care act. it does it in such a haphazard way, while it does deal with preexisting exclusions, it increases premium and kicks people off coverage they currently have. >> your response, brad woodhouse. >> that's not true. we're seeing across the country, premiums go down in the aggregate. we've also seen the lowest increase in health care costs since the 1970s.
since the affordable care act was enacted. if you listen to republicans, usually you know, they will say, we like this, and we like that, and you find out most of the stuff they like is already, joy, in the affordable care act. >> including the preexisting conditions exclusion. loni chin, i want to ask you regarding the objections conservatives have to the affordable care act, are you not focusing only on the individual purchasers, but forgetting that the vast majority of people who are getting the aca are getting it through things like medicaid, and getting it off the website, and sometimes directly so. >> well, the medicaid expansion is bad news for states in the long run. >> it's 100% max. >> to afford the coverage they're expanding now. well, but there is no guarantee that match stays in place. and bear in mind, states are responsible for 100% of the administrative costs on day one. so there is no guarantee those costs are going to be matched by the federal government in the long run. what i would say also, medicaid is not a great way to cover people. it's not an optimal kind of insurance and we should instead
be seeking solutions that really work for people on medicaid, instead of putting them on substandard coverage. >> the last word, brad woodhouse. >> substandard coverage is what a lot of people were getting and what republicans want to go back to. remember, mitt romney's plan was to repeal the affordable care act. 137 million americans would lose access to foebl care and would lose the protections they're getting under the affordable care act. so you know -- and we have these states that didn't do medicaid, they didn't do their own exchange. and now, you know, they're -- they're the first to fuss about the bumps along the way. it's hypocrisy at its worst. >> hopefully we will come to a solution. but i do -- yes or no question for lonnie chin. before the affordable care act, were people ever dropped from their insurance policy ohs? >> sure. of course, it happened. >> excellent. at least an admission. we're getting somewhere. lonnie chin and brad woodhouse, thank you both. i'm sure this debate will continue. we'll be right back. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982.
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throughout the evening. and coming up right now, "the ed show," with ed schultz. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show," live from new york. let's get to work. ♪ >> virginia will send a clear message to our country and the democratic party. >> they're beeping and beeping! >> we don't want obama care. we don't want more big government. >> don't vote against your own interests. >> there is a certain amount of pushback that needs to happen, because of tea party activities. >> this is a referendum on obama care. >> ahh! >> want to go back, you want to say you are no longer covered any longer. >> we want more leaders like your next governor, ken cuccinelli. >> we're voting against cuccinelli for the governor's position. >> i want synchro nicety in