tv Martin Bashir MSNBC November 18, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PST
♪ last friday, on this broadcast, i made some comments which were deeply offensive and directed at governor sarah palin. i wanted to take this opportunity to say sorry to mrs. palin and to also offer an unreserved apology to her friends and family, her supporters, our viewers, and anyone who may have heard what i said. my words were wholly unacceptable. they were neither accurate, nor fair.
they were unworthy of anyone who would claim to have an interest in politics. and they have brought shame upon my friends and colleagues at this network, none of whom were responsible for the things that i said. and at a place where we try every day to elevate political discourse and to focus on issues that matter to all of us. in the battle of ideas, america leads the world in whole hearted discussions and disagreements. and these arguments can be heard on a daily basis. but what i did on friday had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that great tradition. and i am deeply sorry. upon reflection, i so wish that i had been more thoughtful, more considerate, more compassionate. but i was not. and what i said is now a matter of public record. but if i could add something to the public record, it would be this. that i deeply regret what i said, and that i have learned a sober lesson in these last few days. that the politics of vitt re oil
and destruction is a miserable place to be, and a miserable person to become. and i promise that i will take the opportunity to learn from this experience. my hope is that it will renew in me a spirit of humility and humanity, that looks for the good and that builds upon the great things that this country has to offer to all of us, regardless of our political persuasion. this will be my guiding light and compass in the days ahead. but once again, i am truly sorry for what i said on friday. to tht where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes. generating electricity that's cleaner and reliable, with fewer emissions-- it matters. ♪
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political fortunes have reversed. >> 12 days to go. >> the date is creeping up on us. >> the internal goal is to have an 80% success rate. >> president obama's style. has he been getting people in a room every day and yelling at them? >> democrats won't lose seats. >> what is important is the people are well-served. not who gets re-elected. >> no matter how much congresswoman pelosi tries to spin this, this is a mess. >> it's a fixable problem. >> it's a political band-aid. >> his legacy is offering affordable health care. >> i'm a lot less concerned about the president and his legacy. tlnchs is no republican proposal that would seek to address the problems basically 40 million uninsured americans. >> john mccain had a health care plan in 2008. >> one of the things i dislike is when people say, if you explain it, you're losing it. >> are you feeling depressed, run down, like you just can't win? >> i'm going to keep working as hard as i can. ♪
we are two weeks from what the white house has set as its deadline to get healthcare.gov working for the vast majority of users. and with the president's credibility on the line, the national journal suggests today, democrats may begin voting for repeal, if the law's problems aren't resolved soon. and while that same matter for debate, the president is clearly keen to regain some momentum with his base. holding a conference call this evening, with supporters through organizing for action. his repurposed campaign arm. and the call comes as the white house admits great challenges for the health care reform. >> what we have seen is the passage of that legislation is only half the battle. and implementation of it is just as -- in fact, more important. because we need to make sure that the promise is realized.
>> just friday, the white house saw the largest democratic defection on any piece of legislation this year. when 39 democrats sided with republicans on a so-called keep your plan bill in the house. nevertheless, democratic leaders insist, support for the affordable care act remains firm, dismissing anxious chatter about 2014. >> what you saw in those 39 people, maybe 9 people had real serious concerns. the fact of the matter is, about 30 of them, and i've talked to them, were insulating themselves against sound bites. >> i don't think you can tell what will happen next year, but i will tell you this. democrats stand tall in support of the affordable care act. jobs will be the major issue in the campaign, as they always are. >> indeed. but despite three years of jobs growth, despite the deficit being cut in half, despite the dow breaking a record 16,000
earlier today, and closing just shy of that mark, there remains a prevailing narrative that the health care fracca has doomed the president's second term, and led to a deeply depressed commander in chief. as imagined, on "saturday night live." >> are you feeling depressed? run down? like you just can't win? are you the president of the united states? ask your doctor for paxil. second-term strength. the only antidepressant strong enough for an embattled second term. >> and don't worry, speaker boehner, there is a congressional version of that too. let's bring in our panel now. with us from washington is dana milbank, political column inconsistent from "the washington post" and norm orenstein from the american enterprise institute and author of "it's even worse than it looks." dana, "saturday night live" has the president gulping down
antidepressants. columnists like your good self are asking, quote, does the health care fumble mean game over for obama? are you suggesting, dana, that the president should just roll up the rugs, pack up the truck and head back to chicago? >> sure. maybe call mitt romney and see if he wants to take over. >> he certainly doesn't have much to do at the moment. >> no, right. he's free. no, i don't think so. and i don't pretend to know the level of depression or -- that's going on in the president's mind. what i'm looking at is there's sort of a polling phenomenon. once you lose the public's sense that you are trustworthy, that you are honest and trustworthy, we never see presidents recover from that. that doesn't mean he's finished. he can certainly -- hopefully get the health care and all the problems we have seen so far fixed. he may have achievements on the foreign policy side. what we have seen in this -- when this sort of thing happens in the second term of a
president, very hard for him to regain the initiative, and become forceful in implementing his agenda, whether that's immigration, some grand bargain. it's going to be a whole lot harder to get things done. >> many people, dana, would say that that would be the case, regardless of the president's mood, given the condition of congress. >> yes. so i think we would have to move it from unlikely to extremely unlikely. >> right. norm, with the upton keep your plan bill, republicans at least seem to acknowledge the affordable care act is the law. but you write of their relentless zeal for repeal, and i'm quoting you, that zeal has nothinged too with the botched rollout of healthcare.gov or the president's broken promise about the ability of everyone to keep his or her plan. much less, the fundamentals of the act. so norm, what exactly is it about if it's none of those things? >> it's about barack obama. you know, we've descended as the
book, suggests, into tribal jump. if he's for it, we're against it. this is a plan and the hallmark of it is a set of principles that chuck grassley and orrin hatch, among others, embraced in 1994, all the way up until 2009, when they all of a sudden became socialism. and, of course, this great concern can about the 3 to 6 million people who have lost their plans and may or may not have to pay more doesn't have any level of concern for the 40 million who don't have insurance, or the people in the various states who aren't going to be able to get medicaid. so i'm very skeptical that we're looking for fixes here. and i have to say that if we take the long view, martin, you know, three or six months from,000, this may be different. i don't know how deep-seated the problems are in healthcare.gov. but what i do know is that insurance companies have every reason to make this plan work. if it doesn't, they've got huge problems. so they're going to work with the president. and whatever you do with
healthcare.gov, you may be able to have some people who can't get on the website using insurance companies. you may be able to have private operations like e health insurance helping out. if we can move past this, to march or april, we may see a very different dynamic. and, of course, at some point republicans are going to have to confront the notion of what's your alternative. and i saw you put up pictures of kel kelly ayotte. i watched her with david gregory and every time he said what's your alternative you could see this long pause in her brain like may day, may day. >> sadly, she is not alone in that particular demeanor. dana, according to your "washington post" colleague, jonathan bernstein, reports of democratsing lining up for repeal are graduated. it is a pure dpant see, no democrats in congress can be found hinting at anything resembling such a dramatic reversal. are these democratic defectors
insulating themselves against sound bites as congressman clyburn just suggested? >> i think there is some of that. and also remember, their support for the upton bill is not at all tantamount to supporting repeal of obama care. and, in fact, people sponsoring somewhat -- somewhat similar legislation in the senate, watered down a bit, are some of the more vulnerable democrats up for re-election. so i think a lot of that is about positioning. none of that goes at the heart of the legislation. and you know, no matter how unpopular it becomes as a result of this, it seems highly unlikely we're looking at the repeal of obama care. are republicans really going to want to go out there and say, yes, we think you should once again be denied coverage for preexisting conditions. we once again think your -- >> your children who are under the age of 26. >> exactly. so that's why we're not really looking at that. but i think there are a lot of nervous democrats, we can certainly say that right now. on the other, hand, we have more
than 11 months before they're hanging. >> well, we do. and norm, no doubt the health law will play a role, of course, in 2014 and 2016. which brings us to mr. paul ryan in iowa over the weekend. and i'd like you to take a listen to what he had to say. of course, after he derided the affordable care act. >> have to show the country, we are not just the opposition property but the proposition party. we have to expose these ideas for how hollow these promises have been but also have to show what we believe in. >> did you think the idea occurred to him after one year of losing the vp bid? >> well, of course, there is a paul ryan idea. it's his plan for medicare, which wouldn't take effect for ten years. what is it? regulated exchanges with private insurers, and premium support. obama care for seniors. so it's okay for seniors, just not for everybody else. and the other plans that out there. you had some republican or
conservative intellectuals like ramesh putting a plan out that would put a heavy tax on gold-plated health insurance plans. we saw the blowback against that before. and in effect, start to wean people off their employer provided insurance. if you think there's an uproar when you have six or eight or ten million people who are suddenly thrown into turmoil because of the individual health insurance market, wait until you get 150 million people telling them their lives will be turned upside down. >> final question to you, dana. what do you make of mr. ryan's re emergence over the weekend? >> it's very clear he is now officially a socialist, right? i think he wants to stay relevant. but as soon as he puts out the plan that he's been threatening to do for a long time, when you see the details of that, then there is an alternative and there is something for this president to campaign against. >> there certainly is. dana milbank, norm orenstein, gentlemen thank you so much, both of you. coming up, we turn our attention to mother nature and take you live to illinois where
this weekend saw the latest in what has been a number of horrific weather events wreaking havoc on communities throughout the world. and this one hits very close to home. 81 reported tornadoes touched down yesterday across five states, with most of the damage taking place in illinois, where the city of washington was among the hardest hit. on sunday morning, while many of the residents were still in church, a tornado ripped through the town, destroying everything in its path. amid the devastation and destruction, sadly, at least eight deaths have been reported, along with many injured and others trying to piece their lives back together after homes
and property were destroyed. seven illinois counties are currently in a state of emergency. and are considered a disaster area. for more now, nbc's ron allen joins us on the ground in washington, illinois. ron, i wonder if you could just give us your impression of what you have seen as you have been reporting there. i guess for the last 24 hours. >> reporter: well, martin, it's just a very difficult time. and now the last hour or so, we've been able to see people who actually have been returning to this community behind me, what's left of it, at least. it was a subdivision of dozens of homes, and all flattened, as you can tell. the areas have been off limits, because it's pretty dangerous to be out there. people are here, though, to try and salvage what they can. i saw one young man walking out with some clothing. people looking for keys, phones, things like that, they may have left in the house when they ran no the basements or ran to a shelter. valuables, possessions, photographs, things of that nature. but it's very difficult to move
around in there. we took a walk back a while ago. there is all kinds of hazards as you might imagine. and the area is still very unstable. the authorities were trying to put together a plan to try and escort people back into these communities. at this point, it's unclear when that's going to gather some momentum. there are a lot of people who want to get back, but it's a difficult thing. at this point, in this community alone, some oh 15,000 people, there are about 500 homes destroyed, and there are about 200 families who are homeless. that's a -- that's sort of a snapshot of one community. so it gives you an idea of that multiplied in the seven counties where there's also been a disaster declared. the governor was here earlier, touring with state officials. he was asking for people to come together to support neighbors, to show resolve, show compassion. because there are so many people here who need just about everything now. and this is, of course, a very difficult time of year. the temperatures have been dropping through the day. it's going to be dark here very soon. there is obviously no power in
this area or areas like it. but you asked earlier what's been most striking. just the sheer devastation of it. you can just imagine what this community looked like saturday before all this happened. a vibrant working-class, middle-class community. and the other thing that's amazing is that in these homes, in these structures, there are a lot of people we have talked to, who rode out the storm, in the basements. the good news is that people heeded the warnings. there were sirens here and elsewhere. people heeded the warnings for the most part, we're hearing. but people stayed and survived through that. and they came up and emerged. and this is what they see that's left of their community. it's just devastating. and it's a very long process, obviously, to pick up the pieces. but that's what people are beginning to do now to try and pick up the pieces and to -- try and move forward. but it's just a horrific thing that's happened here. and so many other communities in this state and neighboring states. >> indeed. nbc's ron allen. thank you, ron. coming up, we'll return our attention to politics, and speak to one member of congress
unwavering in her support of the affordable care act. critics, be damned. >> now, when the affordable care act is going into effect, are we supposed to believe that this republican majority is putting forth a good-faith effort to improve the bill? it doesn't wash, and it defies imagination. ♪ ♪ you get your coffee here. you get your hair cut here. you find that certain thing you were looking for here, but actually you get so much more. when you shop at these small local businesses, you support all the things that make your community great. the money you spend here, stays here. in this place you call your neighborhood.
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political bill. oppose it. >> our next guest does not mince words when it comes to the republicans' new-found desire to fix the botched rollout of health care reform. on friday, she and other democrats asailed republicans' latest attempt to repeal the health care law via their keep your health care act. and joining us now is congresswoman rosa de loro of connecticut. good afternoon, ma'am. >> good afternoon, how are you? >> thank you for joining us. the "wall street journal" has just reported that the obama administration is working with insurers to help some people bypass the website. nevertheless, it's also hoping, as we know, that 80% of users can access the federal exchange by the end of this month. do you think, honestly, that that number is achievable, and do you think that will assuage some of the 39 democrats who joined republicans in voting for the bill on friday? >> you know, i think that the -- the administration has talked
about what their technical ability will be. and i think they're going to try to hold close to that line, and get there. and the fact of the matter is, as you pointed out, martin, you can access the affordable care legislation and the bill, not just through the website, but you can go to a community health center. you can call in. you can work with a navigator there are all kinds of ways in which you can access the system to get the -- to get the kind of coverage that you think is useful for you and your family. do they need to fix the technology as quickly as possible? without question. without question. >> and so, even though just 106,000 people were able to go on the federal website and make it work for them, and that's a very low number, given what we were expecting, you are still confident, just to be clear, that 80% of people using that
particular website will be able to register by the end of this month. >> well, look, you know, i'm confident that they are going to be able to access the system. i'm not going to give you a personal, because i'm not a technician. i'm not there seeing what's happening every day. but i believe that technology can be sorted out. that's the process, martin. let's get to what the crux of the matter is. the affordable care act is meant to change people's lives and provide for many for the very first time. affordable health care coverage, which they have been denied. i'm very, very -- it's unbelievable to me that we have a whole group of people who are talking as if the health care delivery system of the past was this remarkable, wonderful system that took everyone in. that gave people the opportunity to have health care. nonsense. it is absolutely nonsense. this was a system that priced people out of the market, denied them health care, because of a
preexisting condition. told employers that we're going to raise your premium willy-nilly. it was a disgraceful system. we are now moving to one in which you can access health care services for you and your family and for your small business. now, i'm glad the president addressed the issue. and -- but we should not be fooled by our republican colleagues to tell us they want to fix it, as i said last friday. they don't want to fix it. they have spent vote after vote after vote to try to delay, to try to defund, to try to repeal the affordable care act. and bring us back to what were some of the worst abuses of the insurance company. >> okay. so the governor of your state joined those of washington state and kentucky in pinning an op-ed in the "washington post". and the crux of it their state exchanges have fared very well, because health care was not used as a political football. >> that's right.
>> can you describe to us what that was like, because it's difficult for us to imagine the two parties working together on health care, when all we have had from republicans for the last four years is just outright on session. >> well, you've hit this nail on the head. first of all, and this, quite frankly, was a system that was patterned on heritage foundation, the romney plan in massachusetts. this was meant, in fact, to be -- and we moved direction of state by state, because of the -- in the midst of discussing the affordable care act, we wanted to move to a state-by-state basis. so many states, as you know, 33, a third, have opted out. where -- where the exchange is working, in my state of connecticut, 13,000 people signed up. about 7,500 of the private side. about 5,000 or more than that a
little bit more than that on the medicaid side. kentucky, california, washington state. the state exchanges are working, because there is a genuine interest in providing health care, again, to people -- some people who have never had it. and to make health care affordable for people. now, the -- what's happened in these other areas -- you take -- take states -- texas. florida. they are doing everything that they can to sabotage the affordable care act. and it really is pretty outrageous. you know, we all take an oath to saying we can uphold the constitution. our offices are there to provide information to our constituents, whether we like a program or don't like it. it's not about us. it is about what, you know, what the law says, and how it should be administered. in that case, we've got some of my colleagues who have said that
they will not answer a question for a constituent. that they will forward the calls. in places like connecticut and kentucky and elsewhere, where it's working, it's working as it should. so that people can can get the services they need, and that's responsible government. >> thank you. >> not what our colleagues have said, as late as last friday, they want to fix it. they don't want to fix it. they want to repeal it. >> congresswoman rosa de loro, thank you for your commitment to people who desperately need health care and health insurance. thank you for joining us. >> thank you very much. stay with us. the day's top lines are next. is that right, spaker boehner. >> speaker boehner criticized president obama's attempt to repair the federal act and saying there is no reason to fix this. one of the reasons boehner is known as the eeyore of congress. ♪ all we do is go out to dinner.
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find out more at aflac.com. from a republican field day to insurance company hassles, here are today's top lines. we told you so. ♪ >> we hate to say we told you so. >> the president said he fumbled the rollout. >> republicans are having a field day. >> i'm sorry, it's just not going to cut it. >> describe for me the ideal republican presidential candidate. >> we say wisconsin through the nose. >> should be a former or current governor. >> i've got 61% of the vote in the state of new jersey. >> that rules out marco rubio. >> which values and morals. >> rules out ted cruz, rand paul. >> governor, what do you think of ted cruz and rand paul? >> all good guys. >> we hate to say we told you so. >> michele bachmann does not hate to say i told you so. >> we have an opportunity now. >> here's the difference now. >> we have the president's plan actually being implemented. >> we have got big government
fracas. >> is it a time of opportunity or just depressing? >> it was depressing. >> are you feeling depressed? run down? are you the president of the united states? >> for a long time, it was depressing. >> ask your doctor for paxil. second-term strength. >> it was just -- >> the only antidepressant strong enough for an embattled second term. >> it was just painful to watch. >> through the nose. >> the health insurance system is very, very difficult. >> the upton plan would allow people to keep their health plans they like. >> the gentleman needs to read our bill. it doesn't say the insurance companies can must sell those policies. >> it's a hassle. these insurance companies can, we'll dealing with within right now giving us the run around. >> they can keep the insurance they used to have. >> it doesn't mandate the health insurance policy has to be granted again. >> the americans want a safety net. >> we hate to say we told you so, but quite honestly -- >> we can scream and while all they want. they want a safety net. >> let's get right to our panel. joining me here in the studio is irin carmon, who is national
reporter for msnbc.com. professor james peterson, director of africana studies at lehigh university, and ryan grim, of course, of thehuffingtonpost.com. so oh irin, we are looking at a theme of i told you sa. paul ryan trying it out over the weekend. what do you make of that, i told you so, as the meme that could run into 2016? >> well, of course, a stopped clock in the sense if what they had said before about obama care was the implementation would be plagued with technical difficulties, they could say i told you so. in fact, they thought the entire idea, which i feel i have to say this a thousand times, started out as a republican idea and was adopted by president obama in the hopes that they would buy in. that this is -- this is not exactly what they said was going to happen. and i think republicans, as they look down the line from whatever the crisis is this week, need to remember they shouldn't be exulting at the fact people are having trouble signing up for insurance. >> do you feel as though they
are? >> there is certainly some glee here, yes. >> yeah. professor, paul ryan may have his eyes on the next presidential contest. but he spoke a little bit about the last one this weekend, as well. take a listen to what he said. >> as i look back at the campaign, i think one of the problems that mitt and i had, we were arguing against big government, in theory. here's the difference now. we've got big government in practice. >> professor peterson, your reaction to i told you so from paul ryan. >> well, first, i agree with irin, it seems absurd for anybody to try out these particular talking points. one, because this is essentially a republican plan. remember those of us who were progressives really were pushing for single-payer which would alleviate a lot of the challenges. it's also absurd because when you look at the problems, it's a failure of leadership on the part of republican legislators, republican governors, to implement state exchanges on
their own that would actually troubleshoot a lot of the problems that we're seeing. and those places where the legislatures in the state, government are on board with it. we're seeing more success. mr. ryan here, it's interesting for him to say this, because let's take a look at government, martin. we're not in a big government era right now. we have been shedding government jobs, federal jobs and public jobs throughout the entire recovery from this recession. and when you -- >> and we've had the sequester, of course. >> yes, add sequester there, add the cuts in food stamps now. you add the deep cuts in our military. this is not an era of big government. so it's actually quite inaccurate for mr. ryan to make that case. >> okay. ryan, when you see republicans, they act as though they've already won the next election. i mean, have they? on the basis of this difficult rollout? >> well, it's -- it's almost as if politicians don't even think about the next election anymore. they only think about that day and winning that day like third of a news cycle. so, you know, to the -- to the
extent they are winning the news cycle, they kind of feel that that's an overall win. but, you know, and they would love to use the -- this terrible rollout as an indictment of big government. but this isn't a big government we're talking about. this is government privatization. there were dozens of private firms that were involved with setting up this website, which is trying to enable people to buy health care from private insurers. >> private insurers, exactly can. >>, so you know, the only part that is actually big government here is the medicaid expansion. and that is working flawlessly, except in the states where republicans are refusing to allow it to go into effect. >> brandon, ironically, leaving so much up to the state was supposed to placate republicans who like to see authority left up to the states. but every way -- every place in which a republican governor can obstruct with notable exceptions, he or she has. >> right. professor, wisconsin governor scott walker over the weekend talked about the sort of person who could be a republican
candidate for the presidency. and he appeared to kind of roll himself in, because he's a governor, and roll people like paul ryan out. >> yeah. you know, i think governor walker is going to have to take a look at the investigation into the recall election in his own state. other investigations related to his fund-raising and things of that nature. and probably do some housecleaning before he becomes king-maker and makes himself the next king. the reality is, none of us really know who is going to emerge on the republican side. it's fairly volatile right now. some of the names we're talking about now may not be in play when the 2016 season begins. but i think governor walker himself has a lot of challenges at home that he's got to focus on before he steps into the national arenas a presidential candidate. >> indeed he has. ryan, rick santorum is another likely rerun for 2016. he appeared this morning on "morning joe." do you think mr. santorum will
fare any better in 2016, should he choose to run again? >> probably not. because he's just so unpopular with his colleagues and republican donors and the entire consultant class he would have to, you know, win at least a portion of over. in order to be a viable candidate. >> ryan, why is he so unpopular? >> people think he's a jerk. people think he's arrogant -- >> i think that's a good reason. >> they just -- you know, they think he's extremely self righteous and just not a lot of fun to be around. >> what's interesting is that, you know, as a reporter who often covers social conservatism, i sort of cheered that rick santorum stayed in the republican primaries for so long. but if i were a republican and wanted a republican candidate to win, i would blame him in part for making mitt romney have to make all those statements about planned parenthood and birth control and so on that ended up really hurting him in the national election. >> absolutely.
irin carmon, professor peterson and ryan, thank you all. coming up, it's the cheney edition. and a developing story out of florida involving today's arrest of one george zimmerman. stay with us. [ paper rustles, outdoor sounds ] ♪ [ male announcer ] laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. ♪ ♪ if i was a flower growing wild and free ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to be my sweet honeybee ♪ ♪ and if was a tree growing tall and green ♪ ♪ all i'd want is you to shade me and be my leaves ♪
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your daughter, liz cheney, said she was not pro gay marriage. your other daughter, mary cheney, is pro gay marriage. is this causing tension in the family? >> if it did, i wouldn't talk about it. that's a family matter. >> well, it's now a public matter. same-sex marriage has always caused a rift between sisters, liz and mary cheney. and after this weekend, it's become a very public one. liz cheney, who is currently running for a u.s. senate seat from the state of wyoming, took to the national airwaves to reiterate her stance on same-sex
marriage. >> i love mary very much. i love her family very much. this is just an issue on which we disagree. >> this did not sit well with her openly gay, happily married sister mary, who took to facebook writing, liz, this isn't just an issue on which we disagree. you're just wrong, and on the wrong side of history. but it was mary's wife, heather poe, who took it all one step further, mocking liz's recent and controversial move from virginia to wyoming, in order to seek the senate seat, something that's been an issue for cheney's campaign. heather wrote, i can't help but wonder how liz would feel as she moved from state to state, she discovered that her family was protected in one but not the other. yes, liz, in 15 states and the district of columbia, you are my sister in law. going to be an interesting thanksgiving dinner at the cheney household, isn't it? for more, i'm joined by democratic pollster, margie o'mara, and msnbc political
analyst and author jonathan altar. margie, how much will this affect liz cheney's chances, especially when he's already trailing senator mike enzi but i think double digits? >> she may be looking at polls that show that a majority of primary voters in wyoming are against same-sex marriage. that may be true. and she is facing $140,000 ad by calling her out for her views. the problem for her is that the main objection to liz cheney is not her views, necessarily, but that she is seen as a political opportunist. that she is seen as running simply because she wants to be in the senate. not because there is a real difference between her and mike enzi on key issues. and when you add to that this sense that she is now looking at her views on gay marriage as a political opportunity, she is using this for political gain, she is -- not necessarily her own view and disagreeing with her family and causing family
strife. it certainly doesn't help her seem less like a political opportunist. and that's where i think we're going to have a real problem for her. >> okay. john, mary cheney is specifically saying this is not an issue, where you're able to agree or disagree. she is suggesting it's a moral issue. but isn't that exactly the same point that liz cheney is making about the same issue. they're approaching this as moral absolutes, collision. >> yeah. and, you know, the rest of us get to watch this family, you know, dissolution, and it's sad. but it grows out of political opportunism, and what it does is it reinforces that she is a carpet bagger. she is not really from wyoming. yes, her father represented in the house, but she has lived in virginia until five minutes ago. she moves into the state, in a very arrogant way, very entitled way. and then she trims her positions in order to try to win a
primary. it's so transparent. she is already down by more than 50 points against mike enzi. after this, probably closer to 60 points. these kinds of candidates don't win. now is it possible for her to come back to win the primary, no. things change in politics. >> of course they do. >> but right now, in an extraordinarily self-destructive way, she has both hurt her position in her family and hurt herself politically, so any reputation she had for being smart is really in jeopardy right now. >> margie, part of liz cheney's campaign against the older mike enzi is that she is running to be a new generation of leader. out with the old, in with the new. but when even your conservative father supports same-sex marriage, is there anything really fresh on you about her stance? >> no. this issue is probably the fastest-moving social issue that really anybody has ever seen. i mean, i was looking at state by state breakouts on gay
marriage. and in wyoming, the -- support for gay marriage has doubled since about not even ten years ago. doubled. and we don't even know where it's going to be by the time the primary is held. that's how fast-moving this issue is. and this may -- there may be some sense that there is a short-term gain here. but the long view is that -- and even the median view is that republicans, even republican primary voters, are not going to be against gay marriage down the road. and it's just -- it's a shame to put aside your own family and the future of the republican party that a lot of leaders say we need to evolve on this issue in order to have a job that some would say, hey, if i have to upset my family for this, maybe i don't want this job. >> and also, i mean, it's just pure pandering. you know it's being done at dick cheney's direction. he's the one who really wants this. for his daughter. he has had a more enlightened position for years. so what he had to do here -- i'm sure he signed off on this. he should have told her, look,
if you lose the primary over this, which she wouldn't have, by the way. it's not worth hurting our family. they're not even going to be able to get together for christmas. mary cheney announced she is not going to jackson hole for christmas this year. meanwhile, lynne cheney is in this huge fight with alan simps simpson. wyoming politics is looking like chicago politics or toronto politics. >> please, no. jonathan altar and margie o'mara, thank you so much. we'll be back with the latest on the arrest of george zimmerman. stay with us. i always wanted to design a bike that honored those who serve our country. and geico gave me that opportunity. now naturally, we wanted it to be powerful, innovative and we built this bike as a tribute to those who are serving, those who have served and their families. and i think we nailed it. geico. proudly serving the military for over 75 years.
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oh. what a relief it is. we're following developments involving new legal trouble for george zimmerman, who was found not guilty of second degree murder earlier this year in the shooting death of trayvon martin. details are developing, but the seminole county sheriff's office says zimmerman was arrested today after deputies responded to a disturbance call. mr. zimmerman was then booked at seminole county jail in sanford.
it's not clear what crime he has been charged with. but we should learn details shortly as the seminole county sheriff's office has scheduled a 5:00 p.m. news conference. so we'll follow that, obviously. thank you so much for watching today. "the ed show" is next. but we leave you this afternoon with a far brighter story from the sunshine state, a return to space, as nasa sent the unman d may venue orbiter on the journey to mars to unlock the mysteries of the red planet the. >> t minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. main engines start. ignition and liftoff. of the "atlas 5", looking for clues about the evolution of mars through its atmosphere. ♪ this is ground control to major tom ♪
♪ you've really made the grade ♪ ♪ and the papers want to know whose shirt you wear ♪ ♪ now it's time to leave the capsule ♪ good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show," live from miami, florida. let's get to work. ♪ if we do not address the declining power of the middle class, we will lose the america that we grew up in. >> they count on somebody who will fight for the middle class. i've always done that, whether i was a republican or now a democrat. >> it's the fight for florida. it's charlie crist, going against governor rick scott. >> rick scott down in florida. >> governor locato, rick scott. >> has a hard time identifying what middle class people have to deal with every day. >> help family. we also passed legislation re
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