tv Politics Nation MSNBC November 19, 2013 3:00pm-4:01pm PST
tonight. appreciate your time. that's "the ed show." i'm ed shultz. "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. good evening, rev. >> good evening, ed. and thanks to you for tuning in. i'm live tonight from chicago. tonight's lead, out of jail. late this afternoon george zimmerman was released from a florida jail after posting $9,000. earlier he was in a courtroom in handcuffs and a prison jump suit. this time in connection with domestic charges that landed him behind bars yesterday. the judge ruled he cannot have a firearm or leave the state of florida. in a frantic 911 call yesterday, zimmerman's girlfriend said he pointed a shotgun at her. zimmerman denied that today as he faced the judge. >> do you have a question about any of these rights, mr. zimmerman? >> no, your honor.
>> do you understand all those rights? >> yes, your honor. >> mr. zimmerman, do you understand that the reason for your arrest is that it has been alleged that there was a domestic violation related aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and a domestic violence related battery and criminal mischief. do you understand that? >> yes, sir. >> the judge set the bond this afternoon with conditions. >> i'm going to set the bond in this case at $9,000 which is $8900 on the aggravated assault and $50 for each of the misdemeanors for a total of $9,000 with numerous special conditions. you cannot have any contact at all with samantha schiebe. and and that's in part for her safety and in part for her safety. i am going to have the impact monitoring device so you're not
traveling out on bond. >> the headline, no possessions of any weapons or ammunition. his guns taken away. and today a new revelation from the state attorney. an allegation of violence which zimmerman's girlfriend says happened just days before his arrest. >> if i could just put some other things on the record. the victim had indicated that there was a prior domestic violence incident that occurred approximately a week and a half ago that involved a choking that she did not report to the police. >> zimmerman told his own version of events in his own 911 call yesterday. >> okay, what's going on there? >> my girlfriend has, for lack of a better word, gone crazy on me. >> your girlfriend? >> yes. >> okay. where is she now? >> outside with the police.
>> okay. the police is already there and so why are you calling, what happened? >> i just want everyone to know the truth. >> okay. the officers can speak with you on scene. have you already spoken with them? >> no, they're pretty upset, i think. >> the officers are upset? >> yeah. they're banging on the door and the window. >> you're not going to go speak with them? >> i don't have anything to say. >> after that 911 call, police found zimmerman in his girlfriend's house barricaded inside with furniture. and as this new chapter for zimmerman gets underway, another close today. while he was in jail, he was officially
served divorce papers by his estranged wife shellie zimmerman.
at this hour he's out of jail. joining me now, nbc news legal analyst lisa bloom, former prosecutor faith jenkins, and defense attorney ken padowitz. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> lisa, he's out on bail. but his guns are taken away and we have new allegations of choking. do you have any question now that he's dangerous? >> i have no question that he's dangerous. you know, either george zimmerman is constantly surrounded by people who are, quote, crazy -- his word. he said trayvon martin jumped out of the bushes at him. now he says this woman went crazy. he said two months ago that shellie zimmerman was the instigator and causing problems. everybody around zimmerman by coincidence happens to go crazy. or he's lying and provokes people. either way, there's no set of
facts under which he should be having guns in his possession.
thank goozness they're out of his possession today. >> you know, faith, it does seem like a pattern with every case that we've now seen starting with trayvon and then his wife and now this. where he turns the case around that he has become the victim of someone who has either approached him or was attempting to assault him or went crazy on him. and i thought what was very interesting, faith is his 911 call. why would you call 911 when the police are already there and you say they're banging on the door and banging on the window? why are you calling 911 to tell a story when you could talk to them? just open the door. i mean, that was kind of weird. >> well, it was strange. but it's a part of what george zimmerman does. this is a person who's been involved in the system for a very long time. he knows in a case like this, all of the evidence is going to be taken into account. and so he inserts his own piece
of evidence. he makes a 911 call for himself. he knows that his, i guess ex-girlfriend now called 911. he was listening to the call. he calls to completely contradict what she's saying. >> creating his own defense. >> creating his own defense. look how well it worked for him in the trial. he gave so many statements, they were able to use those statements unchallenged. did not have to be subject to a cross examination. he never had a take the witness stand. he did that with the 911 call. someone who knows how to control, by the way, their anger and emotions, they don't get into situations like this. but this is a person that does not know how to do that. >> talking about his emotions, ken, the state attorney revealed that allegedly zimmerman recently mentioned suicide. after the hearing, his attorneys said they disagreed. listen to this. >> she had indicated that they had been discussing breaking up. he also has mentioned suicide in
the recent past. >> my impression again after speaking to mr. zimmerman, he didn't appear to be a danger to himself or anybody else. he's very clear. he's very coherent. >> so, ken, what does the fact that now we have a choking allegation, now the mention of suicide, what does this do to the future proceedings that apparently may come out of this arrest and this case? >> well, the future proceedings are very serious for this grandma nip late-- grand grand manipulator. he barricades himself in a house and when the police are there, he doesn't move the barricades. when do innocent people ba barricade themselves in their homes. this is a victim-driven crime.
if this victim maintains that this gun was pointed at her, mr. zimmerman's going to be hit with an aggravated assault with a three year minimum mandatory and it's going to be a trial unless the victim reseecedes from her statement. he's not going to be able to manipulate the system as he has in the past. >> lisa, when you look at the fact he does not have the legal team he had in the trayvon martin case. he does not have these high-powered lawyers. today officials released the application seeking the appointment of a public defender. and he reveals he has not -- he has a total amount of liabilities and debts in the amount of $2.5 million. so he's not going to have this crack legal team. >> well, that's right. although there are many outstanding public defenders who work very hard representing people every day. so i'm not going to pre-judge
his team. what he has this time around is he doesn't have the issue of racial profiling which i believe was part and parcel of the trayvon martin case. and he has a victim with hope who -- whether they have the fortitude and support to carry their charges through to trial. it's one thing to make those charges difficult to go forward. i'm sure this young woman is swamped by media requests so far today. we haven't heard from her. she's probably gets pressure on both sides. it's important she gets the support she needs so she can go forward if she chooses to do that with her allegations. these are very serious allegations. >> now, faith, talking about that young lady samantha scheibe is her name. she says george zimmerman, and i'm quoting her, knows how to
play this game. >> you're breaking stuff in my hous house. >> ma'am, ma'am. what's going on? >> he's in my housebreaking all my [ bleep ] because i asked him to leave. he has his freaking gun breaking all of my stuff right now. no. i'm doing this again? you just broke my glass table. you broke my sunglasses and you put your gun in my freaking case and told me to get the [ bleep ] out. get out of here. >> so she's describing what's going on and she says later in the tape that he knows how to do this, he knows how to play the game. >> right. it's similar to what shellie zimmerman said in a recent interview she gave about george zimmerman. these are people in his inner circle. we're outside observers. we've watched him and we've examined his behavior and we watched the trial. but these are people in his inner circle. who knows him better than his girlfriend or his wife, the people that he has spent a lot of time with?
and it is certainly not uncommon. today we heard the charges, the allegations of the prosecutors said in court about a prior incident with zimmerman strangling this young woman. and that's not uncommon in domestic violence cases. you have a 911 call generally when it's first reported by the alleged victim, that's the floor, not the ceiling in terms of the level of violence in the incidents that have occurred between two individuals. that was actually a positive sign she's corroborating with investigators and prosecutors because she's giving them more information about what has been going on. and i hope she continues to cooperate with the investigation going forward. >> and the judge ordered, ken, that he cannot be in touch with miss scheibe which is usually how someone tries to talk someone out of going forward as lisa raised. that in many cases sometimes the victims of domestic violence or alleged domestic violence don't
go forward. one of the first ways of trying to unravel that is the actual alleged perpetrator talks them out of it. and he's going to have a difficult time doing that if he cannot talk with her. >> absolutely. that order's going to be stringently enforced. if he even thinks about contacting her through another person, his head will spin off when they yank him back in the jail cell. they're going to make sure that order has teeth and there will be no contact with the victim in this case. he's not going to be able to influence her in that regard whatsoever. >> lisa bloom, faith jenkins, and ken padowitz, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, these obama care haters are using words like radical and impeachment today. but we have news. the tea party george washington doesn't want you to see. and the right winger that
once told president obama to quote, put down the koran or put the koran down and come out with his hands up, he's at it again today. plus more evidence of record inequality in america. yet republicans are still trying to cut from the poor. and much more on george zimmerman. look at the transformation. who is he? a psychologist tablgs us inside the mind of george zimmerman. stay with us. [ coughs, sneezes ]
at a time when the gop will stop at nothing to protect big banks, today the obama administration had a major victory. jpmorgan reached a record $13 billion settlement with the justice department over its role in selling toxic mortgages. finally a big bank is being forced to take responsibility for the financial crisis. this important. this is progress. and it's in line with the president who's fighting for everyone, not just the top 1%. >> our stock markets and corporate profits are soaring, but we've got to make sure that this remains a country where
everyone who works hard can get ahead. >> everyone should be able to get ahead. but not everyone is. last year the top 1% made up more than 19% of all household income in this country. look at that statistic. that's staggering. and why does it exist? because we have a republican party that protects the rich all while top republican pundits dismiss income inequality in this country. >> if you're obsessed as much as they are in europe -- >> obsessed we quality? is he serious? this is why the gop has failed playing out. they're against raising the minimum wage, against extending long-term unemployment benefits, against food stamps. republicans consider themselves
the grand ole party. but tell me, what's grand about these priorities? joining me now is former congressman barney frank. mr. chairman, thank you for your time tonight. >> nice to be with you, al. >> now, you had to fight tooth and nail for dodd-frank, your landmark reform law. but we still see the gop continue to fight against consumers. >> well, they're trying to slow the act down. something very important happened the other day. the regulations that are done under the legislature that we passed can be challenged and they go before the district of columbia court. they get all the regulation that some bank or hedge fund doesn't like. the judges on that court are, unfortunately, in a conservative majority. now, there are three vacancies.
president obama is trying to fill those vacancies, not create any new judges, not packing the court. he just wants to appoint his share of judges who we wouldn't have a conservative bias on the court. and the republicans are filibustering it. people should understand why. it's to protect financial institutions. because until president obama can get his people confirmed, there will be a majority there that will strike down regulations unfairly. and just one more minute, i'm going to give you one quick example. the commodity futures trading commission which has done a great job put out a rule a year or so ago saying no speculation in oil. if you don't use a commodity, don't buy it all up. the judges in that circuit threw it out. they said that's not good economics. so, yeah, they are unfortunately still fighting. and one example of that is their refusal to let president obama appoint the judges he's constitutionally entitled to
appoint. >> we're going to deal with the blocking of the president's judicial nominees, but let me go to this jpmorgan situation. because right wing pundits have been blasting the obama administration for even taking jpmorgan to task. listen to this, mr. chairman. >> let's make no mistake about it. this is all about being a victim. >> you have no chance against this mccarthyism. >> wow. >> in my opinion, this is an attempt to pin all of the blame for the crash on wall street and pin it on the banks as well. >> mccarthyism. i mean, like if they were doing something wrong to go after banks that sold toxic mortgages to american citizens. >> we have just heard an example from the republicans of mccarthyism. but you and i are old enough to remember charlie mccarthyism. he was the dummy who was used by
edgar bergen. what you have here is republicans are playing the role of charlie mccarthy. they are the dummies through which the banks are able to speak. the fact is that jpmorgan chase was fined for dealing with loans, making loans and then packaging and selling loans that should never have been made in the first place. by the way, i want to make clear. we as democrats during the early part of this century tried to make those loans illegal. the wall street journal denounced me for interfering with the frequent. saying you're going to keep minorities from getting homes. what the law december is make the kind of loans that jpmorgan chase was penalized illegal going forward. but it is still important to make them repay the abuses that have happened in the past. >> now, i'm running out of time, but i want to show you this. because it really illustrates income inequality. the average minimum wage worker just brings home a little over $15,000 a year.
but the average ceo, they bring home $9.7 million a year. now, how can the gop defend the rich all while being against raising the minimum wage? i mean, this gap is unbelievable. >> the last time we raised the minimum wage under president clinton, employment went up, not down. by the way, 40 years ago they would argue jobs will go overseas. but today the people who get the minimum wage are people who work in service industries here. people who work in restaurants. people who do such wonderful work taking care of the sick in nursing homes and hospitals. people who work in grocery stores. you know, you can't go to india to buy your groceries. so this argument that there's an economic negative is just simply wrong and the experience is now overwhelming that the minimum wage will help alleviate the worst poverty. >> well, it's great that
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america's leading expert on plagiarism, gop senator rand paul, is running into some trouble as he tries to cut and paste his way to a presidential run. that trouble is called chris christie. here's the governor last night talking about what led to the gop's disastrous government shutdown. >> bad decision making and a lack of courage. what we have unfortunately in washington on both sides of the aisle at times with absolutists. >> ouch.
ripping the gop and ripping washington. that's bad news for a republican in washington who might want to run against christie for president. so rand paul is hitting back with some harsh words of his own. >> is chris christie a conservative? >> you know, it depends on how you define that. if you have a loose definition, probably. >> oh. burn. where'd you steal that zinger from, senator? of course rand paul has a much better idea about who should be the nominee for gop in 2016. >> i think they want someone outside of, you know, what's been going on. someone like myself who's been promoting term limits. >> excuse me? rand paul is a washington outsider? he's a united states senator. his dad was in congress for 23 years. his dad ran for president three times.
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we demand that this president leave town, to get out, to put the koran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up. >> that was larry klayman making one of the worst statements. today they were back outside the white house just steps away from the home of the first family. and the website right wing watch caught what they said.
>> we don't want to return to the days of 1776 when we had to rise up, when we had king george iii who was far less worse than barack hussein obama. >> we've heard the high list of misdemeanors perpetrated by the occupant in the white house. >> the birth certificate released by mr. obama in the white house is a fake, a fraud, and a lie. >> our social president or a president who favors muslim interests over american interests in the middle east. >> but it wasn't just klayman and his buddies cracking birther jokes and calling the president a socialist. they even rolled out a george washington impersonator to call out president obama. >> president obama has engaged through his tenure as president by rule of executive decree, we
therefore demand that this criminal, treasonist individual be removed from office without delay and held accountable. all his acts as president be considered of no effect or validity. >> wow. if george washington says it, i guess it must be true. folks, we shouldn't have to take this stuff seriously. but it's not that different from what senator shutdown ted cruz has been saying about the president. >> we have never seen a president behave like president obama who believes he can just pick and choose. he'll enforce this law, not enforce another law. i mean, that is -- >> impeachable? >> -- deeply dangerous. that's a question for the house, ultimately. >> impeachment is a question for the house? way to dodge the question. here's the follow-up.
>> would you urge them to consider it? >> any impeachment would have to be tried in the united states senate. since my responsibility would be to render judgment, i would not want the house to do anything but exercise their best judgment. >> we're supposed to trust the good judgment of ted cruz and the house republicans. i don't think so. and when republicans are using the same talking points as a guy wearing a tri-corner hat, they're just as lame as that george washington impersonator. joining me now are richard wolffe and michelle cottle. would senator cruz be more at home at that tea party rally with george washington than in the u.s. senate? >> let me just say i think your abe lincoln impersonator was better than the george
washington guy. ted cruz has flitted with this all the way through. and the fact he cannot rule out what would be an e greeshs overreach by the united states congress is exactly why his republican colleagues dislike what he's doing so much. it's not thought through. it's just pandering to the fringe elements of the republican party. maybe he thinks that's going to fuel some part of a tea party candidacy for president. but he's not going to get much support in terms of the broader party. if he wants to break out of iowa on his, you know, path to the nomination, then he's going to find it very hard, indeed. i do think he is encouraging and flitting with those elements of the republican party. they are ugly and racist. that's not the majority of the republican party, but it is the fringe. >> now, michelle, you know, in that interview i showed of ted cruz, he wasn't just dancing around the impeachment threats. he said -- let me show you something else he said.
>> one of the most troubling aspects of the obama administration is aside from their radical policy, the way they've implemented it has sadly been lawless. over and over again, this president has said i don't care what the law is. i'm going to refuse to enforce it. >> he's accusing the president of being lawless because he's implementing the health care law? i mean, michelle, this is incredible. >> look, ted cruz is very much trying for the same goal as larry klayman and a lot of these tea party guys. he's not trying to shoot for good government. he's not trying to actually get anything done. he's not trying to appeal to a large chunk even of his own party. he wants attention. he wants to cut through the noise. and these days in the toxic political climate that we have, you have to say increasingly outrageous things. and he's the guy who's willing to say the most outrageous
things in the senate. >> but it appears that a year after they lost the election, they are trying to stop this president. they're trying to nullify the fact that he won. yet we continue to see breakthroughs. when you look at today's los angeles times, good news for obama care. they're reporting in the l.a. times today, richard, that enrolling is surging in several states. >> yeah. look, reverend. obama care is bigger than a website. it's the patient protection in the affordable care act. and that does mean that when you look at how the states which are empowered to deal with health care delivery and insurance, when you look at the states, the numbers and the pictures are very different. where they have tried to cooperate and engaged with this to help their citizens gain health care. so this is going to be a very mixed picture for a long time. that's not to take away from the mess of this federal website
rollout at all. but health care delivery when it comes to programs like medicaid, health care regulation when it comes to insurance has been done at the state level and where those states have engaged with it, it's going way better than anyone expected. that's not a small thing. that's a big thing for tens of thousands of people. >> it is a big thing. but michelle, they are trying to block this president at every stop. obstructionism is all they're focused on. for example, they are blocking his judicial nominations. they've just blocked robert wilkins from a seat on the d.c. circuit court. the third straight nominee this month. only 76% of president obama's judicial nominees have been confirmed compared to 91% for president bush. and president obama's judicial nominees have waited an average -- listen to this -- of 228 days from their nomination until their confirmation.
compared to only 148 days for president bush. why don't senate democrats change the rules to stop this obstruction, michelle? >> look, playing politics with judicial nominees and other appointees is becoming an increasingly popular game. but inside the senate, they are very careful about doing anything that could come back to bite them later when they're in the minority. the senate protects its privileges to some degree. when we talk about the nuclear option with kind of changing the filibuster rules, it's the same thing. while it might seem like a good idea at the time, everybody in the senate is careful about the long-term implications. >> but, richard, i understand the senate privileges. but we've never seen anything like this where you are just nullifying the power of a president to nominate people to the courts, people to the
administration. why not change with what we're dealing with in this loefl of obstructionism. >> this is tit for tat, right? what started with reagan stacking the court has moved into, you know, bush trying to stack the court. and democrats stopping that. it has intensified. there is a precedent for it, but it gets worse every cycle. and we're at the point where the courts cannot do their business. you know, you have a real debate about whether the d.c. district can actually do its job. and that's not in anyone's interests. >> richard wolffe and michelle cottle, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thanks, reverend. coming up, new allegations that george zimmerman choked his girlfriend and talked about suicide. i'll talk to a psychologist about today's bombshell revelations in court. plus the reason i'm here in chicago tonight looking for solutions to a problem that
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members. all gathered to talk about the stories that have become tragically frequent. >> it happened across the street from a school. a shooting that landed a 7-year-old boy in the hospital. >> a lot of shots. like boom, boom, boom. a kid was hit in the face. >> jayden arnold is still on a respirator after being shot at the park july 4th. >> it's hard. i never thought i'd lose a child. >> he shot my baby in the face. >> why would you do something like this? why? all these innocent people out here and kids. why would you do something like that? >> so many victims. so many of them children. like deonta howard. a 3-year-old who was shot in the head on september 19th. jaden donald who was shot in the stomach on fourth of july.
7-year-old christian lyles shot in the neck that same weekend. and a baby who died after being shot five times. we must all come together to fight back against the violence that has plagued this city and this country for far too long. joining me now is the reverend ira ackri who convened the summit with me here in chicago. thank you for being here. >> thank you, reverend sharpton, for having me. >> you know, when we talked about what was going on here in may and you challenged me and others to help out nationally and we took the apartment, you said there are people on the ground that are fighting back that are not running. and a lot of them were in the meeting today and talking about doing some things. and escalating and putting attention on it. but earlier this month, i
visited a magnet school with you where i spoke with magnate -- you. what what they said. >> how scared are you of gun violence? >> it's always on my mind. >> gun violence? >> yeah. like what if this happens, what if that happens. >> what would you say, any of you that you'd like to see done? >> i'd put more law enforcement in high schools. whenever you're getting on the bus, there'd be a big crowd of them. >> i mean, what do you say to a child whose reality includes being worried about getting shot every time he leaves school? >> i was there with you. i was overwhelmed. my eyes really welled up with tears because we failed this young man. all i could tell him was do your very fwoes stay out of harm's way. don't go out by yourself. this is asinine that you've got to tell people something like that in such a time as this.
it's really terrible. we just need to make a commitment. all hands on deck. all of these activists we had in the room, civil rights leaders, elected officials, faith leaders. we've got to put all hands on deck and turn this all the way around. >> one of the solutions we said today is we're going to have town hall meetings and break down these barriers of just one side of town as opposed to another and make chicago a national model. because it's not just a chicago problem. it's a national problem, and you're fighting back on the ground. and you've done things with your church and programs getting young people ready for school building hope and determination. >> absolutely. we're fired up about that. and even after you left, we had people from bradley to allen and the wall street project. >> these are grassroots people. >> these are grassroots people red i did to make a difference. it was a really powerful momentum builder. we're looking forward to have --
to deal with stuff like the equitable funding in schools. we've got to deal with stuff like lack of opportunity in jobs. because desperate people resort to desperate measures. whether it's right or wrong, that's not the question. when people are getting killed because they're trying to solve an economic problem, we must do something about it. >> you know, both this president and the first lady have been here and spoke about violence affecting their hometown. but it's got to come from the bottom up, not the top down. what they addressed is right here. listen to this. >> last year there were 443 murders with a firearm on the streets of this city. and 65 of those victims were 18 and under. so that's the equivalent of a newtown every four months. >> i'm not talking about something that's happening in a war zone halfway around the world.
i am talking about what's happening in the city that we call home. >> so we need help from government. we need help, state and city. but we also have to from the bottom up build a movement to change the mentality, to change the thuggism that a lot of our young people in desperation have just embraced. that's got to come from us on the ground. >> absolutely. you know, we're going to continue to fight for opportunities. we're going to continue to fight for equitable funding in school. but the funding wasn't so great when i was coming along. so it wasn't equitable funding that kept me out of jail or drugs, it was community leaders who are role models and mentors to me. it takes a community coming together for renewal. >> that's what we're trying to do. reverend ira acree thank you for your time and leadership. one program note. i spent the last year working on
a documentary on the epidemic of gun violence in this country. 50 years after president kennedy was killed by a sniper's bullet, 50 years of guns airs this friday at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. we'll be right back. plus presents the cold truth. [ coughs, sneezes ] [ sniffles ] i have a big meeting when we land, but i am so stuffed up, i can't rest. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil cold and flu liquid gels don't unstuff your nose. they don't? [ male announcer ] nope. they don't have a decongestant. really? [ male announcer ] really. alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a fast-acting decongestant to relieve your stuffy nose. [ inhales deeply ] alka seltzer plus. oh. what a relief it is. [ male announcer ] can't find theraflu, try alka seltzer plus for fast liquid cold and flu relief.
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who is george zimmerman? now charged with felony aggravated assault after allegedly pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend. you can see the transformation here? we're going to try to get some answers. joining me now a psychologist and msnbc news contributor. thanks for joining me. >> always a pleasure. >> he seems to find brushes with the law. what does that tell you about him, jeff? i know you've never examined him, but what does this pattern tell you? >> looking at his behaviors and doing that through the eyes of the media, this is an individual who certainly has what we call a personality disorder. a little bit of antisocial personality, a little bit of narcissistic personality, a
little bit of schizoid personality, everyone must march to his own beat. he doesn't want to compromise. and it's all about the planet being his and everyone else just living on it. >> now, i was listening earlier to the conversation that zimmerman had placed a call to police after his girlfriend had called police and the police were at the house. he then called the police. listen to this conversation with the dispatcher and zimmerman as the police are downstairs knocking on the door. >> okay. the police is already there and so why are you calling? what happened? >> i just want everyone to know the truth. >> okay. the officers can speak with you on scene. have you spoken with them? >> no. they're pretty upset, i think. >> the officers are upset? >> yeah. they're banging on the door and the window.
>> you're not going to go speak with them? >> i don't have anything to say. >> now, aside from the thoughts of maybe he was building a legal case or legal defense, listen -- he was just involved in an altercation, listen how calm he seems talking in the middle of all this. does that say anything to you, jeff? >> absolutely. here we're looking at a person who is in such a state earlier, allegedly breaking things, threatening another individual. now all of a sudden he's so calm. we call that flat affect. it's inappropriate for the situation he's in. part of that is because he's manipulating the situation. the other part of it is he's just not connecting with the world in a socially appropriate way. everything happens from inside for him. within his mind. that's the reality. and he does not accept the
reality of the world which is why he continues to find himself in these brushes with the law acting out with his anger and so on. i saw this coming a mile away. we saw it with o.j. simpson who just couldn't stay out of trouble because he also had some sort of personality disorder. he's slowly unraveling. i think we're going to see much more of it because of the stress that he's already under. just think of it as a boiling pot and the flame just keeps getting higher and now we see that the water starts boiling over even quicker because that water is actually part of this sociopathic personality, the flame being the stress that he's under. >> and we see him appear differently. one time clean shaven, very heavy. now a beard. i mean, are the physical changes, does that tell us anything? >> absolutely. this is someone who is like a chameleon. a changing personality because
he does not have any essence inside of himself. nothing real. >> i'm going to have to leave it there. jeff gardere, thank you for your time. >> yes. >> thank you for being with us. and thank you for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. assault on a president. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington. let me start tonight with this. the demolition campaign on anything obama continues its relentless run even today. with protesters out in the streets of washington denying this president's legitimacy. the goal is to erase this president's election and re-election. re