tv Up W Steve Kornacki MSNBC February 16, 2014 5:00am-7:01am PST
so now one shot for the win for jennifer jones. coming into this game, she was the top ranked skip, curling at fast-paced action, daring rescues -- >> approaching the 10 freeway. >> life and death struggles. >> they were like holding on for their life. it was so scary. >> loses the rider. >> jen jones, a little shaken there. resets. recleans the rock. she does not like this rock. >> yeah. she's fidgety in the hack. final rock of the 11th end.
>> line's great! running! >> this rock is outside a little bit. >> sweepers haven't got after it yet! is it going to settle in the button? >> no backing yet. >> debbie mccormick's ready to sweep if it goes deep! where will it stop? it slides! and it is yellow for one and team canada ekes out a win. the second straight game that team usa has lost on the last rock of the game. >> unbelievable. great game by both teams. >> a well played curling game, but once again, team usa falls short. they drop to 1-7 in the round robin. and canada improves to 8-0. ♪
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you have to feel for the american women. once again they lose by a matter of inches. coming up later today on cnbc it's the american men taking on sweden. we will see you then. have a good day. team usa saying we're not going to quit. we're going to keep fighting hard. are they going to get it around the guard? great shot. she scores three for team usa. >> jones can't close the door. [ cellphones beeping, chiming ] [ male announcer ] the new chevrolet malibu. so, where should we go for lunch?
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we have new information to report to you this morning about the george washington bridge lane closure scandal. the connection that has not been discovered or reported anywhere else before now. it involves a man who was apparently present when the access lanes were shut down and whose family has deep personal and political ties to governor chris christie that go back decad decades. we will explain all the details momentarily. but the best place to start this story is with what we already know. what's already in the public record about what transpired on the morning of september 9, 2013. as the monday when those lanes in ft. lee, new jersey, were crunched from three to one resulting in epic paralyzing traffic that gridlocked the town. up until this point we've known that it was david wildstein, one of the former port authority appointees, who ordered bridge
officials to close the lanes and that wildstein personally showed up at the bridge 6:00 a.m. that monday morning to oversee the closures along with robert durando, the general manager of the bridge. this is how he described what wildstein did that morning. >> he came to the facility on monday morning. he stood at the communications desk for a little while. it's an area with cameras, limited views, allbeit stayed there for a little while. he then left the facility, left the communications desk with a police lieutenant assigned to the george washington bridge to ride around the facility for some period of time to see the impact on traffic. >> this is where new reporting comes in. we have evidence of the identity of that police lieutenant who
apparently gave wildstein a tour of the area as traffic was piling up in ft. lee. this is a series of text messages wildstein exchanged that morning while he was at the bridge. the identity of the person he's interacting with is redacted, redacted by wildstein's attorney. take a closer look. the unidentified person texts wildstein at 6:52 in the morning and asks to meet in the park in lot. wildstein says, no, the person should come inside the lobby where, quote, i'm with bob. presumably bob durando, the general manager of the bridge, whose testimony we just played. of the next message comes at 7:09 a.m. want me to pick you up? it's messed up here, except we can't say the word really used there. it's messed up out here. wildstein responds, around 7:30. and now here is where the puzzle starts to come together because there is something is else that appears 200 pages earlier in wildstein's subpoenaed documents. it's an e-mail sent from wildstein at 7:28 that morning to durando informing him he's,
quote, going to take a ride with chip and see how it looks. so we wonder, is this person, chip, the same person wildstein was texting with? the same police lieutenant durando testified gave wildstein a tour of the area? it appears likely that it is. it's a little tricky because there's no one with the name of chip listed in official port authority materials as a police officer at the bridge. but, when we called the police chief in ft. lee, we asked him which officials at the port authority he had conversations with that week about the lane closures and the traffic. he mention ed a port authority police officer named chip michaels. and there is a port authority police lieutenant assigned to the george washington bridge with the last name of michaels, his name is thomas michaels. when we called the port authority and asked to speak to chip michaels, it was to thomas michaels they transferred us. we also found this newsletter from the port authority police officer's union from february of
2011. it mentions chip michaels twice. first mention indicates he has just left the emergency services unit command and the second mention is an announcement that lieutenant chip michaels has joined the george washington bridge command. a transfer, by the way, came in the same general period of time that wildstein and bill baroni were installed as chris christie's point men at the port authority. now why is this so interesting? why should you care if lieutenant thomas "chip" michaels is the guy who gave wildstein a tour as traffic hell was setting in on ft. lee? this is a january 2010 story in "the newark star ledger" when when christie was about to become governor. there's a quote from someone who has known him since their childhood in livingston. break his chops a little bit, just saying you're the governor, looking at him, laughing, said chip michaels who along with his brothers grew up with christie. it's crazy. he grew up like everyone else in
new jersey. to see him as a celebrity is just really odd but he's the same guy. he's a grounded guy. chip michaels, that article, goes on to say, has since moved to the town of randolph, new jersey, and as of 2010 was coaching one of christie's kids on a youth hockey team. at the port authority site to look at information on police officers you will find thomas michaels is listed as a resident of randolph, emergennew jersey. so that's the first interesting thing we've learned. when david wildstein surveyed the chaos caused by the lane closures, his tour guide was apparently a lpolice lieutenant who had known chris christie since his childhood, who had coached chris christie's children in youth sports. the friendship dating back to their youth that as the article described was very much active at least through 2010. here is something else we tis covered. let's go back to "the star-ledger" story on how he likes to bust the governor's chops. look close ly at the passage where it says chip makeals along with his brothers grew up with
christie. along with his brothers. well, who are those brothers? one of them is named john makeals. you can see on his facebook page here he's posted a picture from a 2008 article in the knock post of his brother chip hard at work as a port authority police officer. there's another photo from john michaels' page, christmas 2008. you can see john michaels there on the left. there it looks like chip, second from the right. then to the right the last guy standing there, the name of another brother pops up, jeffrey michaels. and it's this that really caught our attention. because the name jeff michaels may not mean much to you but if you live in a small and insular world of new jersey politics, then you definitely do know that name. because he's a major republican player. he was the chief of staff to defran chess co-acted as serving governor over a decade ago, became a lobbyist. he's very close to his childhood friend in livingston, the governor. it was, according to the biography of christie jeff
michaels who was the one who got to tell christie on election night 2009 that he'd won the race. when jeff michaels appeared on a public tv show after that 2009 election, he was asked if he was close to the governor. >> i've known him for a long time. we went to high school. our families knew each other from livingston. and just stayed in close contact with him over the years and was very pleased to help his campaign out with policy. >> close ties to the governor have caused jeff ma ed michaels are soar. the news site launched by david wildstein years ago that i used to work for, that jeff michaels even wrote a periodic column for, that site, politickernj.com, the first year christie was governor. according to their write-up, quote, the former chief of staff to donald defrancesco.
michaels, who grew up in livingston has close ties to governor chris christie, through his partner norcross, the power broker george norcross iii. the firm is called optimist partners and that connection is key. as was meticulously documented, christie has cultivated unusual alliance with george norcross, a democrat who is widely regarded as the most powerful political boss in the state. so the christie/norcross era, the teaming of jeff michaels and phil norcross has been lucrative, something explored in a 2011 article. deal with norcross brother makes lobbying prosper in today's trenton environment. their firm, by the way, cracked the top ten list for revenue in the new jersey law journals annual rankings. jeff michaels has stepped up to the mate financially for the governor giving $25,000 to a pac
set up to push christie's agenda and has given over $20,000 to the republican governors association, the group christie now chairs as he prepares for a possible 2016 presidential bid. so that's who jeff michaels is, a powerful new jersey republican whose family has long and close ties to chris christie. someone who has parlayed that connection into a wildly successful lobbying practice and has invested tens of thousands of his own money in christie's political future. and it is his brother, jeff michaels' brother, port authority police lieutenant thomas "chip" michaels who is apparently on the scene when the ft. lee lanes were shut down. who drove david wildstein around as the traffic mounted. who apparently kept in touch with wildstein through text messaging after that ride. this is a text to wildstein from 8:46 a.m. on that monday morning, the first day of the lane closings.
i may have idea to make this better, it reads. continues to update wildstein on the state of traffic around the george washington bridge throughout the day. he continues doing so the next morning as well telling wildstein, quote, local ft. lee traffic disaster. what is wildstein doing with all this information? take a look at this. at 8:33 that tuesday morning, michaels apparently texts wildstein that traffic is cleared on the main thoroughfare to the bridge, the i-95 approach. at 8:43, wildstein relays that same information to bill baroni. at 8:45 he relays it to bridget kelly who writes back six minutes later by saying, that is good, no? wildstein replies to her, very go good. bridgette can kelly writes to david wildstein, small favors. and that's the last involvement of chip michaels that hases so far come to light in these documents. so it appears we've solved a mystery here. we figured out who the police l
lieutenant was with david wildstein on september 9. there's no evidence to suggest that lieutenant michaels was involved in the planning of the operation. the but the evidence suggests that chip michaels was present on the bridge at the hour the lanes were first closed, both driving david wildstein around that first morning and texting with him throughout the first two days of the closures. he seemed to have an inkling it was coming, too. in an e-mail to his superiors, michaels inquires if, quote, a new traffic pattern is going into effect the next morning. the text to wildstein on the first day of the closures offering to, quote, make this better, could be read any number of ways. is he an innocent bystander shocked by the mess and looking to help improve it, or is he telling wildstein he has an idea to make things even worse for ft. lee or is it something else altogether? we don't know. a letter from ft. lee mayor sokolich. this was at the height of the lane closure mess.
s sokolich tells baroni many members of the public indicated to me that the port authority police officers are advising commuteers in response to their complaints that this recent traffic debacle is the result of a decision i, as mayor, recently made. were port authority police officers actually saying that to commuters? what kind of contact, if any, did chip michaels have with his brother jeff during all this, not just the lane closures but the weeks and months after as the mystery percolated, the story exploded into a full-fledged national scandal that threatens christie's political future? jeff michaels is known in trenton as a longtime friend and ally of the governor. no reason to suspect jeff michaels had anything to do with the lane closures. there's no evidence that chip michaels discussed the closure with the governor or his brother, but it does make you wonder. in all that time did jeff michaels and chris christie ever talk about this? about how jeff's brother was the guy who drove david wildstein around during the closures?
remember, christie has adamantly maintained that he had no idea until a month ago that this was anything other than a traffic study. that was the cover story that was given by bill baroni in testimony in trenton. he's maintained the secretive and vindictive nature of the closures was a shock to him. christie's offices tried to say it was a primarily rogue act master milded by wildstein. david wildstein schemed to close lanes as a recent press release put it. now it appears it wasn't just david wildstein on the scene when the lanes were closed. that he was there with a police officer who gnaw the governor from way back, and whose brother is a trenton power broker who has a deep connection to christie. those deep ties to the republican party in new jersey. we reached out to chip michaels. we reached out to the port authority police department. we reached out to jeff michaels and to the christie administration on friday and again over the weekend to let
them know the story was running this morning and to ask them to provide some context, to answer some of the questions raised by this information. we look forward to their answers. we will talk next to the co-chairman investigating the closures wisniewski right after th this. ♪ ♪ be powerful... ...connect. verizon. i have a cold with this annoying runny nose. [ sniffles ] i better take something. [ male announcer ] dayquil cold and flu doesn't treat all that. it doesn't? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms plus has a fast-acting antihistamine. oh, what a relief it is!
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some new reporting david wildstein wasn't by himself. he was there with a port authority police officer who knew the governor from his childhood. his brother is a new jersey power broker with deep connections to chris christie. here to talk about the new detail may mean for the investigation as it moves forward, bring in john wisniewski, co-chairing the investigation of the george washington bridge lane closures.
i guess i'll just start with that connection we just established there with this port authority police officer, thomas michaels and david wildstein, is this something you were aware before as you encountered it in your investigation? >> not in the the context you've laid out. we saw the e-mails that mentioned chip and people observing the traffic. the detail to which you've put this is something the committee had not been aware of. but i think what this speaks of is the growing number of individuals that seem to have had some knowledge either in this case chip seemed to have known the night before, other people knowing when it's happening. other people knowing when it was the cover-up that have some tie to the governor's office or to the governor himself. it really increases the number of people that seem to have knowledge and it fuels the skepticism that many have had about the governor's time line on when he knew.
>> yeah. again, we have -- we reached out to all of them, you know, and really want to get context from them. there's no reason to suspect that jeff michaels knew anything about this, that chip michaels was in on the planning. as somebody who is in and understands how power works, when had we say a name like jeff michaels, what his relationship with the governor is like and his role is like. >> every administration whether it's a democratic administration or republican administration, there are the lobbyists that have some type of access to the governor through unofficial channels. there's all the people work in the governor's office and you go in and you talk to them and that's the official channels but there are the people that either grew up with the governor or used to work with the governor or are party stalwarts who have access in other ways to the governor. and so that, as much as official channels, business and politics in new jersey is also done through the unofficial channels, through lobbyists and other people. and that increasing circumstale individuals now includes chip michaels, at least individually
because he was there, widens the number of people who have some close contact to the governor, some relationship with the governor and, as i said, it just fuels the skepticism that has existed about the time line, which has been inconsistent as it's been laid out over time. >> and that's one of the things. we had this first batch of subpoenaed documents that came out. now a little over a month ago, i guess. it raised all of these questions where we had the bridget kelly e-mail from august 13 that says time for some traffic problems for ft. lee. everyone wants to know, okay, what came before that? wildstein says, got it the. what came after that? there's hints of a potential meeting between chris christie and david sampson, the chairman of the port authority the week before that. you've been getting new subpoenaed information in now in the last week or two. has any of the information that's come to your committee shed any light on those questions we've been asking for the last month? >> the best that can be said about the information coming in now is to say that it corroborates or val taidates th
existing information. there are no toumts that match the importance of the bridget kelly e-mail that clearly there's a connection to the governor's office with her e-mail a. what we still don't have answers to is the question that we all have, why did she send the e-mail? it's clear that that e-mail was the middle part of a conversation that started at some point before that, that there clearly had to be other people involved in that conversation. she -- i don't think anybody believes she woke up that morning and said this would be a good thing to do. what we need to understand is who else was involved in that decision making? did somebody tell her to send the e-mail? did somebody make her think it was okay to send that e-mail? those are questions we've. and certainly the information that you've come up with certainly adds a degree of completeness to who else may have known. >> and one of the big reasons for the question marks around all of this, the redactions in all the stuff with david
wildstein has provided, you have asked for fewer redactions from him. what is the status of that? >> our attorney is work iing wi mr. wildstein's attorney. the argument put forth by mr. ziegus say they represent material outside the time frame or outside the subject matter. our attorney is working with him because we think that there are some things that should come to the committee, those negotiations are ongoing. we hope to have an answer with that very quickly, though. >> john wisniewski, co-chairing that committee. i want to thank you for joining us this morning. we can talk about all of this with our panel when we come back. [ molly ] honey.
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significant mistakes in judgment. >> that's chris christie this chicago earlier this week. we want to bring in our panel, brian murphy, a reporter who has worked with us a great deal on today's story, also a professor at brook college, bonnie watson coleman, a democrat on the joint super committee investigating the bridge scanndal. she previously served as the state democratic chairwoman in new jersey. we have michael patrick, a republican member, also part of the joint legislative committee. and brian thompson who has been covering new jersey for the station for the past 16 years. so we'll start just with this news we brought at the top of the show about chip michaels apparently being the police lieutenant at the port authority who drove david wildstein around on the morning of the closures. and i guess i can't say this enough on the show. we did not make contact with him. we don't have any reason to suspect that he was in on the planning of this or anything, but, brian, it strikes me, like, how david wildstein through livingston, his police lieutenant is from livingston, he's driving him around -- the
scandal ends up becoming so local in a certain way. >> the one thing i've seen in new jersey in the 16 or so years is there are always connections within connections with connections, and it doesn't necessarily make somebody guilty or not guilty either way of any particular action by another person, but new jersey, in its own way, is a very insular state. almost, i hate to use the term inbreeding, but in political terms, yeah. it's like inbreeding. so to come up with this kind of relationship is absolutely not the surprising. the only other thing i'll say is it's true in politics everywhere. it's not what you know, it's who you know. and i'd say that is truer in new jersey than just about anywhere else on the face of this planet. >> that's a good way of putting it. what's your reaction to seeing the report this morning? >> we keep peeling back this bad lettuce you have in the refrigerator and we keep peeling
it back looking for are something we can use to eat that's good, and we can't find it yet. so we're look iing for the goodn all of this. we're looking for that which can be used for a good purpose and we haven't encountered it yet. the relationship in new jersey, new jersey is a very small state. you used to be able to traverse it in three hours. you don't necessarily think of until something comes up. i want to commend you on the investigative reporting and the exploration that you're doing because you're allowing the information to take you to the next step. and that's what we're trying to do on the committee, allow the information that's coming to us to take us to the next step, the next person. you've helped us to identify some of the next person s. i thank you. so that's what we're to go. >> another member of the
committee here, you've looked at all the documents, brian and i and people on the team have been p poring over putting this little piece of it out there. does what register with you at all? >> i once worked in livingston. does that count? >> i once drove through. >> can we have your resignation? >> anything is possible. the fact is all conspiracy theories look possible from the outset. my dad just finished a book on the kennedy assassination which he helped cover. there's a lot of grassy knoll in that. there were massive connections and massive discussions. it seems at this juncture a little bit too attenuated to mae to take it very seriously as a next step in a vast conspiracy. >> and i don't mean to present it as a conspiracy, and i tried very hard in how we presented it to leave open -- there's all sorts of possibilities here including just coincidence. but one of the things, brian, that squum ps out at me is the potential at least, the
potential proximity as sort of a communications pathway to the governor. if you have somebody who is an eyewitness to these closures and who is driving wildstein around and his brother is very, very close to the governor -- everyone in trenton says this guy has christie's ear, there's at least the potential pathway for information to be getting to chris christie and then you have chris christie kk 0 out there saying no inkling before january 8 there was anything untoward about this at all. >> right. the thing was, i had been kind of obsessing about who who chip was and then you have a snow day and do some baking and thinking is clarified and you can put it together. then when you figure out who his brother is and you tell people and they say, oh, my god, jeff michaels' brother was on the bridge that day, then it's got a certain veillance, a connection. the that's striking about the proximity is if you look at the texts, assuming it's chip, it's
reasonable to assume it's chip, they're familiar. they're not -- in contrast to the e-mails that we see within the port authority that are very deferential, very professional. >> there's e-mails from chip the night before the first closure where i believe it's captain darcy licorice. it's very formal. it's sir. >> and everything is very, sir, ma'am, it's very professional. and then, you know, 12 hours later we get these e-mails that are misspelled that have curses in had them and this is not from two people who are peers within the organization. this is a police lieutenant writing to a director level official at the port authority. now how many of us would write e-mails to a superior that way? how many of us would send -- maybe we would. i'm just speaking for myself. you would at least check the spelling. you might be a little -- you
might police your language a little bit. >> texts you can always allow for spelling in texts. >> clearly the auto correct is turned off here. >> but that speaks to the informal relationship we were talking about. it speaks to i knew you in a different capacity. i may be in this job now by virtue of some other good thing that happened in my life, but i have a relationship with you that goes beyond this. and i think we seem to be seeing some of that percolating. >> it's suggestive. >> there's a lot that's suggestive. we'll pick it up and talk more about where the investigation is going. there were some developments this week. our own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability of fedex.
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it. >> no, we didn't do the subpoenas that way. >> you're right. >> it was on the motion to bring in or to sort of hold them in -- what am i looking for? >> it was to decide whether or not the subpoenas that were issued -- >> right. >> were necessary and germane. >> stepien has refused to provide documents. there was a party line action on the vote. >> we abstained and the argument was from my colleagues mostly we didn't have a chance to look at these things. they were prepared days in advance. we didn't get them until the day of the meeting. i'm not going to say it's a sin of commission but it's a thing we've had a problem with on this committee is oftentimes the communication is not as it should be. as the chairman said before hand, we have never done this before. >> but i think that there was nothing new that was coming before us as it related to those
subpoenas. we knew what the subpoenas covered. we knew who the subpoenas were directed towards. we knew what we were asking for. we were determining what to do having had those individuals plead the fifth. and what we did was say that the subpoenas were valid, that the information requested was germa germane, so i don't know how long it takes someone to know whether or not those few items were needed to hold debate and discussion and for knowledge to make a decision whether or not we should say yes or no. when we were also advised by our special attorney. >> i wholly disagree. the fact of the matter is, i'd like to have this stuff resolved immediately. we can't discuss what we did behind closed doors and we won't, the fact of the matter is from my personal perspective, the quicker we get a resolution of that aspect of this case, the better off i think it will be
for us and for the state of new jersey. >> the question here, and i think the concern that's being raise raised is this began, if you go back a month or so, this seemed to begin as a genuinely bipartisan exercise. and when you have the vote with the four republicans abstaining and then you have the new jersey state republican committee send out an e-mail that was attacking the investigation, to quote from it here, the people of new jersey deserve better than the witch-hunt they are witnessing. television every night. thank you for standing with governor christie as he begins his second term while new jersey bails on the progress made over the past four years. other comments like this the. brian, i just look at this and say, are the republicans trying to set this up to almost discredit this as a partisan ad? >> you know what struck me this week was when the republicans on the committee and, michael, i'm not sure if you were part of this or not, questioned the investigation moving beyond the bridge and into other areas of abuse of power.
and the thing that really stuck out at me was the fact a the subpoenas issued going back to the transportation committee before it became the special committee on investigation, from the get go said looking into looking into other abuse of power, demanding documents that would deal with the gw bridge or -- they didn't even specify anything. i mean, i remember report iing that a day. wow, look at that. any abuse of power, they want documents. that's like -- i don't want to use the term witch-hunt because that has such connotations to it. >> just say it. >> but that's a huge net. and it was back then but it was state stated right there. and now the republicans are saying, whoa, whoa, whoa. >> you have to understand we didn't get -- again, i'm not -- we didn't get copies of those things when we were asked to approve them. we were surprised by what came out later on because we didn't
know what was in them. that's one of the problems with the communication. again, i said last time i was on here we felt oft times there was more audience than participants. >> i'm not sure that's comple completely accurate. it may have happened that way when it was simply the transportation committee that the substance of the subpoenas hadn't been thoroughly explored by everybody. i'm not sure. but before the joint committee dealt with the subpoenas, we knew what the substance looked like. >> well, you may have. i'll tell you, i didn't -- just not to go too far afield. >> let's not get into the meetin meetings. >> they've released the subpoenas so we know what in them. i think the witch-hunt was directed at you, not us. but suffice it to say we did not get copies of the documents that we were asked to approve until the meeting itself. and it's a lot to read when you have 18 subpoenas with 18 riders on them.
again, i'm not suggesting to you in any way, shape or form, it was sin of commission that we were deliberately kept in the dark but we did not get them in advance. >> we'll talk whether it's me or someone else right after this break. [dog] larry? larry? larry? wanna play? [announcer] a healthy dog is a playful dog. [dog] let's do this larry. [announcer] help him keep those muscles while he loses a few pounds with beneful healthy weight.
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yours? ah. not anymore. it's a very short story. come on in. [ male announcer ] by meeting you more than halfway. it's how edward jones makes sense of investing. prior to yesterday i believed that if i looked someone in the eye i worked with and trusted and asked them, that i would get an honest answer. maybe that was naive. but that's what i believed. >> that is chris christie at that now famous press conference over a month ago he was saying not until january 8 did he have any inkling of the vindictive nature of the lane closures. now we're in the middle of february, brian. i wonder listening to this discussion today, looking at the documents out there, we heard from chaeirman wisniewski, that the toumts have not answered any of the million dollar questions
out there. what do you think the time line is we're look iing for in termsf getting answers on this? >> oh, gosh. it all depends on what you do next, who you go to, what kind of documents that can turn up. it seems like this is going on two tracks, the sandy track is being pursued by the u.s. attorney, the bridge is what you are on now. i'm not sure what had will turn up. i mean, it's just hard to say. it seems like, you know, the thinking was if you just keep, in our standpoint, if we keep mining the documents we'll find something. it did. it does lead the door to a number of different avenues to pursue for you guys. >> how essential is it to get right now stepien and kelly, two seemingly sevcentral players in
this, preparing to have a court fight whether they should disclose documents. can you get to the bottom of this without those documents? >> we are trying, but with all the paper trails that do exist and all the people who have been engaged to respond, you might see some information in one that's not in another and let you go there. i'm going to tell you that an essential question that needs to be answered here, and an e-mail goes out, let's start some traffic problems. and it goes to wildstein. he says, got it. got what? if someone sent me an e-mail, bonnie, time for some traffic problems on route 31, i would have sent back an e-mail, what are you talking about? so we have to find 0 out what preceded this. and so we just need to ep keep moving back, moving back, moving back until we get to the point of understanding the beginning of this. >> what's a small favor? i think if i was a member of the committee, i would spend my 24
hours a day trying to figure out what small favors means. >> in the context, the text message exchange that apparently was taking place between chip michaels and david wildstein with where chip michaels is sending information about here is the traffic on 95. here is the traffic here. wildstein is relaying that information to bridget kelly. oh, traffic broke a little early today on the i-95 approach. and she goes, that's good, right? it is. she writes back, small favors. >> for what though? >> small favor for what? i think what you're going to see with stepien and bridgette k ke and how they've withheld all their information based on their attorneys' advice, the attorneys i've talked to, some of the experts in the field, are telling me this is -- it's a little muddy in legal law but essentially they, a committee, probably has a court upheld -- will have a court upheld right to get this material.
and -- >> do we know how long it takes, though, to go through the process? >> the attorneys i talked with don't think it will take that long. as soon as we get to court, they think they'll get almost an instantaneous answer. then you can appeal it. but an appeals court also has to understand, you would think -- courts do live in the real world. sometimes. and you would think -- >> in new jersey? >> that's a whole different wor world. you would think they would know that there is this committee that these two individuals are on and that this is trying to find the truth of the matter and that this needs an immediate decision or as immediate as a deliberate action a court can make. the legal judgment that i'm getting on this is that once this gets into the judge's hands, single judge or multiple judges, that it shouldn't take that long. >> without telling any tales, i understand our attorney has been
instructed to negotiate avoiding going to court. my thought had been, okay, exactly what you're saying. we need that stuff. let's get it. there's a court rule directly on point. we have the right to declare people in be contempt but that's worth a doughnut. it doesn't matter. a court can. so if a court finds you in contempt for failure to provide pape he is, it can throw you in jail. given the necessity for an expeditious determination on the matter, i favor going forward as quickly as possible and then they can negotiate while they're doing that. >> the other question, all of the mysteries david wildstein and his lawyer almost intentionally created with all the redactions, how crucial is it and how confident are you that you will get those redactions? that you will see the full -- >> they were discussing that very subject. beyond that i don't think it's
appropriate. there have been some requests for unrae dakted copies and that it was being negotiated. >> yeah, yeah. >> the judgment, though. >> who would make the judgment? is that david wildstein's attorney? >> if they can't come to an agreement it will have to go to court. >> when you say provide unredacted copies, to whom? >> to counsel -- >> to committee. to the committee through the counsel. >> the counsel would see the unredacted copies. >> they do things that would help to expedite and to maintain the sense of fairness and objectivity and i don't know how long it will take. i hope it doesn't take very, very long because i think that we need to get on with governing in the state of new jersey and i don't know about my colleague here but i feel like nothing is happening coming out of the governor's office. he was elected to govern.
we were elected to legislate. we should be doing things that get the people's business taken care of. >> and i'm in this chair to keep time. we ran short because of curling. we have to get out. is this the bacon and cheese diet? this is the creamy chicken corn chowder. i mean, look at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light. 100-calorie progresso light soups. you would need like a bunch of those to clean this mess.
almost exactly one year from now the 2016 presidential race will have officially started. it will still be a full year then away from the primaries. by early 2015 candidates will start formally declaring that they're running, will start in on raising money and the debates, maybe dozens of them, they won't be that far hyped either. that's what we're a year away from. the open contests on both sides in 2016. the democratic race comes with a twist. may not even be much of a race. it's early but hillary clinton is racking up numbers no early front-runner has ever, ever, racked up before. it raises the question whether she could become the first
nonincumbent in the modern era to claim a major party's nomination without facing serious primary opposition. those kinds of expectations lead to this, the cover of "the week" asking whether clinton really will be the inevitable nominee and that portrayal of clinton as a 17th century monarch wearing a green pant suit under her robe comes on the heels of, no pun intended, another controversy cover about clinton this one from "time" magazine showing the man about to be crushed by a high heel. can anyone stop hillary? the question that's on everyone's mind right now, support for the former secretary of state continues to surge. a new poll shows hillary clinton for the first time breaking 50% against any potential 2016 republican challenger tested. clinton has the backing of the majority of registered voters no matter who her opposition is. her support among democrats is unprecedented in modern
politics. she is 64 points ahead of her nearest potential challenger, vice president joe biden, and she is 70 points ahead from elizabeth warren. if you ask yourself, wasn't hillary clinton in the lead at this point eight years ago? these numbers dwarf the lead in 2006 when she was up by only 24 points in polls back then. of course at that point a certain senator from illinois had not entered the race. the lead the last time that made her nomination inevitable, that lead was nothing compared to the support she has right now amassed. key democratic operatives are also lining up behind clinton from the 2012 campaign manager who signed on with priorities usa, the super pac that supported obama in 2012 and is now backing clinton. there's been a steady drumbeat from party leaders encouraging the presidential candidate to throw her hat the in the ring. >> claire mccaskill announced she supports hillary clinton. she's onboard. this didn't take long. >> abc news can confirm that
every democratic woman in the u.s. senate has signed on to a letter delivered earlier this year encouraging hillary clinton to run for president in 2016. >> run, hillary. run! if you run, you'll win and we'll all win. >> chuck schumer, always subtle there. the millions it continue to flow into the ready for hillary super pac, some have argued hillary clinton with her close relationshipses is vulnerable. elizabeth warren voices a progressive economic vision. she will not be running in 2016. those arguments came from the voice familiar to our audience here at msnbc. >> i don't want hillary clinton to run for president in 2016.
they have enabled them to raep all the profit. someone who sat on the anti-union board of walmart for six years the right person to restore workers rights? in a time we're still reeling from a global financial disaster brought on by foolhardy bank deregulation, someone who recently took $400,000 to give two speeches at goldman sachs, the person we named to take control back from the inmates. to be clear that i would back hillary with all my heart against any republican, and i would even support hillary over most democrats. but her entry into the race would likely keep out elizabeth warren or another real middle-class champion. so though i admire and respect secretary clinton deeply, i must say, don't run, hillary. don't run. >> here to discuss that
provocative nonendorsement is the co-host of msnbc, crystal ball, a top aide to senator clinton, who is a democratic strategist, a staff writer with "the daily beast." crystal, i'll start with you since we played a little clip of you there. it sounds like you're saying you're not so much against hillary clinton as you are against the idea of a primary process that never gets off the ground. >> yes. that is very well said. i think that if hillary is not challenged at all in the primary and is not challenged from the base, progressives will not like what they get in a hillary clinton presidency and i do think that elizabeth warren is the person who most captures where the democratic base is but, more importantly, what the country needs right now. we're in this place, in this moment where we're slowly recovering from a recession. people are starting to pick up and look around and ask themselves not just how do we recover but what kind of an economy do we want and what kind
of country do we want and what kind of middle class jobs and what is our future going to look like and how are rewards going to be divided amongst people in the country? hillary clinton, if she's unopposed, will feel free to cater to the people backing her campaign. as we all know she has team ties on wall street, deep corporate ties. i think her instinct is to be the sevcentrist that her husban was, more triangulating, more moving to the center wherever that happens to be, than really challenging those on wall street, you know, facing economic inequality, facing income inequality so those are my concerns and i don't think that it's particularly likely that elizabeth warren would enter with hillary in the race or really another strong challenger. >> a letter that a group of female senators said she won't run. >> i expect hillary will run despite my request that shea not. but i think it's really
important that we l challenge her on these issues. if she does run, essential isly unoppo unopposed, i don't think we're going to like what we get. >> when you hear that, what do you make of it? >> well, first of all, i don't think the democratic party is going through the same kind of soul-searching that the republican party is going through right now. we always hear about the democrats having a big, open tent, and i think we do. all the issues you're raising, i don't believe hillary clinton will have an ear that's not receptive to that. you can move the agenda with hillary should she decide to run. traveling with her the years that i did, she always said something that stuck out at me, dare to compete. what that says is whether it's her, whether it's elizabeth warren or any other person to her left that wants to run in a primary against her shud do that, and i think they would be impactf impactful. i think it doesn't disqualify her from being able to address the issues that you are concerned about and two very
quick pieces. in the state of new york when she was senator before the stem was popular, she was creating these bills and partnering with universities and schools in new york. the president just announced this brothers keeper program to support young men of color. she helped start an all boys public school dedicated to young men of color, now opening their sixth school. she was talking about a lot of these issues long before they became really popular because she understood the difference between not just income inequality but wealth inequality and trying to improve the pipeline for folks to move into the middle class. so i do think she has been good on those issues. she just needs an opportunity to compete. >> and just very quickly, i mean, the piece that i'm really concerned about here is the independents. and even with this president we've seen -- we've been disappointed in some ways in his willingness to push back on wall street because even though he had a great grassroots base, he also was the candidate of wall street in a lot of ways in 2008
the in particular. i think even with the best of intentions, people are reciprocators. if you are getting a ton of money from wall street, it's hard to be independent enough to do the hard things that really need to be done right now. >> my take on the obama presidency has been for all of the drama of the 2008 obama/clinton primary, i've often thought the obama presidency has played out roughly as the hillary clinton presidency probably would have played out. there would have been different reactions from commentators opposed to each of them but from a policy standpoint they've played out exactly the same. and when i look at these polls i look at where president obama's approval stands among democrats right now, very high. approval stands among liberals, very high. hi hillary clinton's lead, i think we have this -- this is an incredible graphic we can show. a numbers guy with "the guardian" supplied us with this.
of the support at this point in the cycle in past presidential elections, look at the past nominees. i mean, bob dole was at 29%. al gore was at 45%. clinton in '08 was at 40%. today at 67% in her own party. so, when i ask about the liberal critiques of hillary clinton and about this new liberal energy in the democratic party, i see members saying where is it really coming from? how big is it? >> i don't think it's that big. rather, i think it's very loud. i think people who are captured by it are an intellectual class, probably activist class but the majority of democratic voters are not liberal. they are moderates. among the actual voter base of the democratic party, they're probably very happy with the obama presidency and perfectly happy with the democratic ideology, with what hillary clinton represents. i agree with krystal. it would be good for the party
and good for everyone in the democratic party if hillary clinton runs to get a strong challenger. i think that challenger will lose. but i think it's a very constructive thing that happened. i also think it's important to remember the extent to which the wall street connection obama has, the connection clinton will have, a basically structural. like you have to get money from somewhere. wall street. >> that's a sad outlook. >> the hope of the progressives, like elizabeth warren, was not to cave to wall street and raise a ton of money. >> that's a piece that really is in her favor. this is a woman clearly on a mission. you know exactly what she stands for. you know what she wakes up in the morning to do and what she goes to bed at night thinking about. with hillary clinton one thing that's remasrkable as long as she's been in public life, i supported her in 2008 largely because i thought she really got health care. i don't know what a hillary clinton platform looks like from a domestic policy perspective.
she is essentially a brank slate on domestic policy which is strange for someone who has been in public life so much. yeah, i think it's a huge challenge to fund a race without backing of wall street, without the backing of big business, but i think that's exactly what would be best for the country if we could have a candidate who had that a kind of independence. >> that's probably where the big numbers come from that we're showing, the fact she has been able to remove herself from the day-to-day political fighting with this platform. we'll pick it up. we'll 0 come right back in a couple minutes. the unique patch with time release smartcontrol technology that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. help prevent your cravings with nicoderm cq. ♪ that helps prevent the urge to smoke all day long. ♪
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anyone is eleanor roosevelt in the 19020s who said that women in politics or in public roles should grow skin like a rhinocer rhinoceros. it's important to learn how to take criticism seriously but not personally. >> as hillary clinton speaking this week at a joint event between the clinton foundation and bill and ma linda gates foundation. what would the platform would be if we even know? that is the story of the clintons. that's the story of the clintons going back to when bill clinton first ran. right as he was about to enter the 1992, he was finally cornered on the night of the event. this is a huge question for
preside presidential candidate. he said, well, i think i would have voted with the majority but i agreed with the arguments of the minority. >> wow. >> people remember the clintons, the '90s for the triangulation. bill clinton ran in 1992 on a pledge to increase taxes on the wealthy and the idea the rich had gotten richer in the reagan/bush years and on the idea it was time for the wealthy to pay their fair share. he did raise taxes on the wealthiest. my impression of the clintons is sort of like, okay, if the party is starting to move more to the left, that's the hillary clinton prophecy. >> that's the point i was going to make earlier which is that hillary clinton's platform is going to be whatever mainstream democrats are concerned about. it will likely be improving the affordable care act and let's say there ends up being a real liberal pub against the structure and single parent single pair. i wouldn't be surprised if she makes noises in that direction.
climate change, inequality, generally speaking if you're running for a major party nomination your platform will reflect the priorities of the platform you're running for. i think in terms of a goal for liberals is to make her campaign talk in the language they want to hear. what's really underestimated is the extent to which presidents to try to match the rhetoric of their campaign. barack obama spent two years trying to be a conciliatory president because of his campaign rhetoric. george w. bush in his first year really did try to be a compassionate conservative. you mentioned bill clinton who really did try to tackle inequality. simply getting a candidate to use the language you want to use can go a long way towards meeting some of your priorities. >> i'm sorry, and i think language is very, very important here but so is implementation and the positive response to
hillary is that there was all this promise with barack obama, and there were a lot of people that feel they have a buyer's remorse because they don't think he fulfilled the promise, if it wasn't because he didn't believe in what he was saying or didn't find a way to work with the legislature to get his platform implemented and i think in many ways people are looking at hillary clinton saying the thing about experience she was talking about, maybe that matters, and looking at her, maybe she can implement a lot of what she's talking about. >> the question we have left, krystal would like an open democratic field, would like hillary clinton not to run. what would it take for hillary clinton to decide i don't want to run? i want to play -- this is priebus earlier this week. just play this for a second. >> is that a legitimate issue rehashing the '90s if hillary
clinton becomes a candidate? >> especially in today's politics. so i think we'll have a truckload of opposition and research on hillary clinton and then some things may be old and some may be new. hillary clinton provides a lot of opportunity for us. >> so here is the question, we had that clip from her talking about having the skin of a rhinoceros and the clintons have proved that. she's in her late 60s. she lived through the 1990s. the ken starr investigation, the impeachment, all the things they are bringing up now. i wonder if there's a moment she's not afraid of reliving the 1990s but everything she and her husband faced in the 1990s they then have to face again for eight years, for a decade basically. it comes in a new form. we've been through this before. barack obama just went through a version of it on his own.
i wonder if that thinking at some point makes her say, do i really want to spend ten years doing this? >> people underestimate to what extent politics is a very personal decision. they think just about the poll numbers and the sort of political calculus and that's part of it. it's also a deeply personal decision. i certainly don't know where her head is but no one knows better than hillary clinton what exa exactly a presidential campaign looks like, feels like, the toll it takes on you, the toll it takes on your family. i think that people who say she's definitely running, i don't think anyone can say that at this point because it really is a very personal weighing of what is this going to mean for me and my family? >> it seems like there's almost been this story about nancy pelosi. so nancy pelosi was the speaker. democrats lost big seats. they didn't kick her out. he they didn't get it back. still didn't kick her out as
speaker. why is there no suggestion that nancy pelosi ought to step aside? and the response is basically like, we've sort of figured out politics. there's this entrenched opposition that's immovable and there's this entrenched group that's kind of on our side. everything has kind of sorted out. and there are certain things -- one of the things that seems to be expected if you look at the bill clinton years, the barack obama years and if there's a democratic president coming in after 2016 this opposition in deeply personal terms any democratic president will face. >> yeah. i think that's exactly right. so hillary clinton strikes me as someone who really wants to be president in a way that is typical of people who end up running for president. and i think she completely understands if she wins, if she just runs, she will face it all over again. i think what's in her favor, i don't -- obviously i don't know where her mind is but as far as politics are concerned, a large plurality if not a majority of
vo voters by 2016 will have either a small memory of the '90s or none at all. i, for one, have no memory of the '90s at all. >> i have a little. steve remembers the '90s. we'll tell you. >> that's for another show. jamelle bouie, krystal ball, and basil. should uncle sam have to fit into the locker room culture of the nfl or should the nfl make way for michael sam? is breakfast... with benefits. start your day with a delicious new crunch. healthy never tasted so good. at any minute... start your day with a delicious new crunch. ...you could be a victim of fraud. most people don't even know it. fraud could mean lower credit scores... ...and higher interest rates when you apply for a credit card. it's a problem waiting to happen.
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one of the most remarkable things about michael sam coming out last weekend is it wasn't the first time. he told his missouri teammates during a preseason team building exercise that he's gay. the tale how they responded by confirming that they pretty much knew already. quote, i looked in their eyes and they just started shaking their heads like, finally he came out. he decided to come out publicly now because he sensed that rumors were circulating. i just want to make sure i can
tell my story the way i want to tell it, he said. i want to own my own truth. and then the missouri tigers had a simply amazing season last year. 12-2 record, a division title, a trip to the s.e.c. title game. a shot until they lost that game playing for a national championship. that conference championship game didn't quite work out but they did win the could the ttto. if there were any problems after his disclosure to his teammates, it's clear they found a way to work through them, to overcome them, and to produce what became one of the most successful seasons in team history. michael sam was set to be chosen in the early rounds of the draft. that was the plan, coming out before the draft has put him on a course to become the first publicly gay player in the nfl. the question, even in 2014, whether the nfl is ready. no sooner did "the new york times" accomplish its interview than "sports illustrated" came out with its own article.
the assistant coach, scouts, nfl player personnel assistant, one former general manager, none of them speaking on the record. all of them saying that michael sam would fall in the draft because of this. claimed that his numbers are inflated. they argued that an openly gay player could chemically impossible nfl locker room because football is still a man's man's game. not a smart move for sam to come out before the draft. that was the consensus of the anonymous voices. the league isn't ready, they claimed, and it wasn't be for another decade or two. the and then on friday the nfl released an independent report confirming the charges of jonathan martin who left the team in october alleging that he was bullied by his teammates. 144-page report con if firms that three offensive linemen, richie incognito, jerry, and pouncey engaged in a pattern of harassment toward not just martin but another young offensive lineman and an assistant trainer. harassment that included improper touching.
ink incognito is said to have been the ringleader in the locker room culture. ted well was hired to conduct the investigation that led to this report. what will it do now in the wake of its findings? will the league and its owners and team management say this is just the way nfl locker rooms can be and accept it? or will someone have the vision to say the time has come to change the culture over what's acce acceptable locker room behavior. the missouri tigers have proven a team can win, that football can be played at the highest levels after a team has learned a star player is gay. after michael sam came out to his teammates he led his team to victory after hick have i. that preseason team building exercise succeeded in the ways they probably neve imagined. the nfl draft is may 8, 11 weeks if now. which team will have the courage to decide drafting a player of michael sam's character is the next step? to answer that weigh want to bring in former professional
football player wade davis who spent multiple preseasons with the tennessee titans and the seattle seahawks before coming out after his retirement, now executive director of the you can play project, promotes equality in sports for the lgbt athletes. a former sportswriter for "the new york times" and "sports illustrated" and now founder after digital sports network. dave covers the university of missouri sports for the st. louis post dispatch. and out in los angeles a man who knows michael sam pretty well, his agent, a partner with empire athletes. dave, i want to start with you. the part of the story that interested me the most was the fact that the missouri players knew about this. is the nfl ready for an openly gay player but we found out one of the best teams in college football had one, knew about it the whole time. is it something you covering the team knew about and tell us how
that affected them or didn't? >> in august, right about the time he did come out to the team, many had known for years -- not many, a handful did, that knew him well. then i heard in august and other reporters that covered the team heard around the same time i think a lot of us, me, myself, wr wrestled with the idea what is the journalist's role here. everyone would like to have that story. but we're talking about a college kid. we're talking about personal life, something he wants to keep private from the public. . i think we decided personally this is something we have to respect. it's not my newspaper, not a network but michael sam. he did so with a lot of grace last week.
>> a team of 85 people, this huge support staff, campus of tens of thousands of people who care deeply about the football team and that word of something like that never manage d to get out. it's amazing to me and it suggests how many others. >> michael commanded a lot of respect. they realize if he's okay with this and okay with us knowing, we're going to respect that back and not go blabbing about his personal life and a time will come he wants to be public about this. on that team and the coaching staff, they didn't sign a blood oath, hey, we're not going to talk about michael sam. it was kind of understood and that's how it just evolved over time. >> and, joe, there was some
concern, more recently about losing control of the story. michael not being able to tell it on his own timetable. can you tell us the process to come out at this point? >> yes, well, it was always michael's decision to tell his choice whenever he wanted to. as his agent we laid out a few different scenarios for him, pros and cons when and if he wanted to do this. when we were at senior bowl in alabama two weeks ago now there was a lot of stir from journalists around mike. a few approached him directly and said you're the only reason why i'm here. didn't directly ask him if he was gay but with the questions they were asking him, it was very much inferred where it seemed like in our mind they had stories ready to go and we're lacking for a comment from mike one way or the other. and mike decided that if he wanted to take control of the situation, it was best to just get his announcement out of the way. >> and i wonder your conversations with nfl
executives, with player personnel types, before this and then after this we talked about all those anonymous quotes from the "sports illustrated" story, is that something that you hear? >> no. from the front offices we've spoken with, everyone is happy about mike. everything we've heard is all very positive. i think it's easy to hide behind anonymous quotes and think what you might think is on your mind but without having the strength to put your name by it like mike did with his announcement, i really don't put too much credence in any of it personally. >> and, wade, you were with michael sam saturday night before this story came out. so you got to know him personally. tell us about the experience of being with him right before this went public. >> i would say his agents and his team had a good group of people together and it was just a celebration.
he's such a stand-up guy. he understood the gravity of what he was about to do. he was like, look, i've gone through so much tragedy, this is bigger than all of that. he's such a humble football guy. he's ready to play. >> that's the other question here, is he selena. somebody was telling me last night, you can take bets on anything and the over/under on some betting site where he'll be picked in the draft is 125th. now doing the math, probably late fourth round. do you think this does affect his draft stock at all? >> i think it affects the teams that aren't mature. it affects those pockets -- and we've seen that with the richie incognito and the wells report. there are some teams that have immature lead ership. there are plenty of other teams, teams such as the new england patriots, that draft talent.
they draft a guy because he's good and they don't worry about code words like distraction which means you're not comfortable with his sexuality. that's what it really means. pick somebody they think is going to be an assess to the team because of his talent, because of his leadership, because of his cake ter, i think those teams will do really well with michael. i don't think a team that had fostered the atmosphere the miami dolphins did and i think that goes to the leadership question that dave was talking about, that was a team with poor lead leadership. there are plenty of other teams that will welcome and embrace him because he's a great player and a great person. >> i want to pick that up because the timing is so is interesting to have michael sam coming out and then to have this report about the miami culture coming out. we'll talk more about that miami report, how widespread that is and how somebody like michael sam might change that culture. instead of paying too much for an ipad, i got the surface 2.
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about the report that came out from ted wells, the lawyer hired to look into the situation with the miami dolphins this year. his report came out this week that established it really wasn't just about richy inkog e incognito or jonathan martin, more systemic, more people involved. a sense of it, this is some of the stuff we could read on the air. player "a" was dolphins offensive lineman. like martin quiet, unassuming. during his time with the team incould go knee so, jerry and pouncey frequented taunted player "a" with homophobic insults, player "a," not believed to be gay, was spoken into this manner repeatedly, he got it every day from everybody, high frequency n. addition incognito and others said he was routinely touched by incognito, jerry, and pouncey in a suggestive manner. jim turner was aware of the running joke that player "a" was gay and in at least one 0 occasion participated in the taunting. dave, wondering what the
coaching staff, what your experience -- your observations were and the coach at missouri, his assistants, it sounds like a completely different culture at missouri than this. >> sure. >> how were they handling this? >> he's an old school coach, 61 years old, doing this for a long time. you can say sometimes maybe set in his ways. but i think the way he approached this and with his staff, a lot of his staff has been with him for ten-plus years, some 20 years. they have a culture within that team, an environment, that i think is all based on respect. now they have incidents lake every other college football team does, but i think it was almost went unsaid that they were going to protect their teammate. they were going to respect him and not let some of these things happen that you're seeing in miami, other teams, franchises, around the country. and we're talking about kids that are between 18 and 23 years old that showed a lot of maturity in the way that they handled this and mike was able to be him seven.
the teammates were relieved when we saw the quote earlier when he did come out back in august because a lot of them had suspected it and now they were relieved that he was relieved. so i think it's just an environment that the coaching staff and gary deserve credit for for establishing. >> so, joe, talking about his experience at missouri, we're talking about the horrible situation in miami, i imagine part of your job right now is to be doing your homework and to find out what a those different cultures are in the nfl that are maybe better for michael sam in a situation, to avoid putting him in miami and maybe to put him in a new england as selena was suggesting. are there certain teams you've looked at and identified this is not the place for him to start? >> you know, there are, i think, good fits for mike. but at the end of the day, wh e wherever he gets drafted is where he's going to go. if a team picks him, he doesn't have a say. whatever team it is it's a great
fit on the football femd and that will translate into mike being in a great locker room player and teammate as well. >> talking about getting the right locker room setting. would the preps of somebody like michael sam change a locker room. >> the players there will be really whether that's going to happen or not but i will say that the timing of the report maybe works in mike's favor in this respect, it was vulgar, vile, everything that happened in miami should not be tolerated in any that if it was going on in your locker room, cut it out.
if you're a head coach and you don't know what's going on, find out what's going on. so in respect, i think maybe this report does michael some good, and that everybody now is on notice that none of this behavior is going to be tolerated and maybe that's more of a welcoming atmosphere. because i will tell you this, if you're good, they'll protect you, they'll love you like a brother, and it won't matter whether he's gay or not. >> wade, the first big test that in terms of where he's going to go, what team he's going to be is the nfl combine, a week away. tell us a little bit about that and what he's going to be facing there. >> i think that people have to realize that the combine is pressure packed on every player. you know, so the fact that michael is gay is not going to add extra pressure to him. there's going to be hundreds of scouts there and owners and front office people. so there isn't more pressure on him, like, as a person myself who's gone through that. i could have added more pressure than was there. but i think like mike's ready. like, you're not the s.e.c.
defensive player of the year if you can't flat-out ball, you know what i mean? and i think we have to realize that. and also, most nfl teams are like the missouris of the world. like, what happened in miami is the exception, if not the rule. and i think that we have to understand that most players like, are much more worldly and sophisticated and welcoming. and there are plenty of players right now who are gay on teams who just aren't out, similar to the way michael was in missouri. >> right. that's my question. how many other teams are there in the country, college, maybe even pro, while they already know, and the rest of us who don't know. that was one of the questions that was raised. i want to thank sports agent joe bar quet for joining us this morning. [ male announcer ] imagine this cute blob is metamucil.
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the you can play project, and sports journalist selina roberts. thanks for getting up. and thank you, at home, for getting up and joining us. we will be back for a full weekend next saturday and sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. but coming up next is melissa harris-perry with guest host joy reid on her program today. a look at what happens when the president talks about race. stick around, joy is here next. i'm beth...
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♪ we are entrepreneurs who started it all... with a signature. legalzoom has helped start over 1 million businesses, turning dreamers into business owners. and we're here to help start yours. this morning, my question. what happens when the president talks about race? plus, what we learned this week about coming out. and the scathing report released about a classic case of bullying. but first, another young black man, another 19th birthday never reached. good morning. i'm joy reid in for melissa harris-perry. today,