tv Lockup Indiana MSNBC February 22, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PST
. >> the sewer rats will get drunk, when alcohol leads to a disruption. a crackdown on illegal cell phones could interfere with one inmate's plans to get married. correctional officers go in hot pursuit of other forms of contraband and with personal cameras provided by our producers, inmates share private moments. >> this is my girlfriend, jody.
she's solid. >> i wasn't nice at all. i used to collect for dope dealers, store guys and everyone else in here that owe money. i used to get half, that was my hustle. give me half of what he owes you. i'll collect it up for you. i didn't care how bad i had to hurt the guy t. guy could have been a friend of mine. i didn't care, business is business, friend is friend. i'd send you to a hospital.
smoke a joint, drink a jug of home-made wine with you right afterward because like i said, interests business, friends is frien friends. >> alcohol is not allowed in prison, but that doesn't stop the inmates from making it or correctional officers from confiscateing it. >> we are on a wine run today. it's getting close to the weekend. >> that means raw football and they will be drinking their ween. so we're here to spoil the party. >> inpate-produced alcohol can be made from ingredients as basic as fruit, bread and juice. >> dexter, come on. >> calvin hobbs is considered an expert. >> mine comes off about 25, 30% alcohol. most people get caught with
wine, all they do is lose their wine, get a write-up. they make i take me to lockup because my wine has put people more in lockup, to fight. they want to fight you. they will lock your bitty ass up. i said, what, i'm not making nothing, man, what are you talking about, i'm sober. >> he comes up clean today, other inmates are not so lucky. >> it's called boots the home-made wine. it's what they brew basically for the weekends, watch the football game. it's like us going to the br and having a drink and it's strong, too. >> though holmes usually considers he hooch-making operation, the prison allowed him to show our cameras it's done provided it's destroyed upon completion. >> i tell you what, two styrofoam cups you are drunk, three you are passed out. three you go to the hole. i take my jug, a gallon jug and
this is half gallon here. i got another half gallon of orange juice. we're making a glovenl i take my sugar and i take your juice and you can mix. let it set for three days. when wine ferments, it epits a methane gas and creates pressure. if you got to seal it air tight, you will explode. it might two or three days. it will go off like a bomb. what i do is this i run my hose into a bottle of shampoo. when it burps, exhales the bottle, itself, it exhales into the bottom of the shampoo. the shampoo, the air raises up and nothing but shampoo smell comes out. which disguyses the odor. officers can walk by you all day long and never smell it. >> with this concoction locked in a secure location, holmes will give it three days to
ferment and to hooch. inmates might see hooch as a way to escape the rigors of prison. but correctional officers know a more serious side. >> watch his legs. >> an intoxicated inmate has just been removed from visitation. officers succeed in returning him to his cell. but now there is another problem. he won't let them remove the handcuffs. >> wait, wait, wait. >> apparently, it's a none contact business. when i got into the custody hau, he apparently had been drinking. if you refuse the breathalyzer, we will can sell your visit, you can be brought to cell house. >> i can't leave you with cuffs.
>> after talking for a while, we were able to get him to give me back his handcuffs, sometimes we'll have agitated ofteneders. they stick together. we get together, take care of it. handle it with the least amount of force in es. >> alcohol isn't the only banned substance that finds its way to inmates. >> it's a constant cat and mouse game. it's our job to try to keep up with them on every level of contraband and their little hustles that they do. >> in past years, the most common forms of contraband were drugs or tobacco. today it's cell phones. our cameras were there when investigators got a fe pail visitor attempting to take 15 cell phones into the prison during the u during visitation. >> of course, cell phones are very serious security risk. it gives an inmate realtime communication. it can help provide an escape
plan. i'm in d west, i got caught with a cell phone charge r. >> right sheer where you have it hidden at. it's a little cut underneath the toilet area. they have to spot for it. >> after officers found the cell phone charger here, tye knowing he might be subjected to further scrutiny and trouble voluntarily turned in the cell phone, which he had hidden in another location. >> i can call anybody i wanted any time i wanted. you can make things happen, if you got a cell phone. >> now, tye must face a disciplinary hearing board to find out what sanctions he will have for having the cell phone and charger. he is assisted with his case with an inmate advocate. >> you are up for possession of
an electronic device. you pled not guilty. are you still pleading not guilty? >> no, ma'am, guilty. >> would you like to make a comment? >> yeah, i brought the phone down, myself and turned the phone in. i never got the phone. they shut me down. i hope you show a little lenience since i did turn in the phone. >> okay. we will take that into consideration when we make the decision. you guys look at this he's had a class a but that was a year ago. so based on his history and the fact that he pled guilty, take time from him, suspend him, if he stays out of trouble, this will come off. he won't lose the time. we all agree on this? >> give him a shot. try to give him a break here. >> we accept your plea of guilty. we are going to take 180 days from you. we will suspend it and no a or b in six months, which pines if you get an a or b, you won't go
home when you are supposed to. all right. >> tye has gotten off light this time. but he might lose another privilege. prison administrators can still suspend his visitation rights or only allow for non-contact visits. a consequence that could impact his upcoming prison way. >> this is my girlfriend, jodie. we was getting ready to get married before i got this conduct for the phone. if they take my contact visit, i don't know if we still get married. hopefully we can. i love her. she's a great girl. and she's sweet. >> why do you want to get married right away? >> i probably won't get married right away. >> coming up, tye and his fiancee enjoy a contact visit, but it could be their last. >> i love you. >> i love you. >> calvin holmes checks out his hooch. >> yes. instead of mailing everyone my vacation photos,
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. >> three days ago calvin holmes made a batch of hooch, inmaid mate-made alcohol. now that it's fully fermented, it's time to check the results. >> let's test this. yes. >> our crew described the odor as a sickened, sweet combination of rotting fruit and alcohol, but since it was made only for demonstration purposes, either they nor holmes would be allowed to taste it. >> and the end of miller time. the sewer rats will get drunk. i wished it was me, but i cannot. >> hooch is only one of a myriad of offenses that correction officers must stay on top of.
>> check it out. >> such as nick notch's attempt to use wire and an outlet to make a wire. . >> it's all good. >> no, that will work. oh. >> when we met him, knox was awaiting trial for murder while serving time for a variety of lesser charges, including robbing an amish man of a $1.85. >> kind of embarrass him. we had fake guns, actually there throw it in front of him, so he do you know go forward. we had got off the phone, made him get off the phone and from my only in, an honest woman don't carry a purse. so we had the man give us the wal et and took the wal et up in
the car and drove off. opened the wal et and there was a dollar and i'd say three quarters and a dime in a little change pouch. the next thing i know the police is behind us. i have my friend just nail it and we threw the fake guns out the window. they come an arrest us for armed robbery and i was pretty pissed. >> now, knox has another problem to deal with. he faces a disciplinary hearing for failure to lock in. not being in his cell for a routine headcount. >> i'm going to go in there with a clean head and hope to beat it. if i don't, i will lose time an go to stay, i will act a fool. i'm a little mad at staff, probably, i will start cussing. i'm going to probably throw a couple chair, actually. >> ploil, ronnie tye is anticipating a visit from his fiancee. >> i'm here to visit my fiancee,
the most amazing person in the world. >> i get married on the 23rd. i'm pretty excited about that. she's a very sweet girl. when i meet her and she's the best thing that's happened to me. >> he's just amazing. it's like he has this own, his own little disposition i guess that i like. he's very honest. you know matter what, he will tell me the truth. some things he's told mix i'm like, i could have lived without that. >> she keeps me out of trouble. >> i got his name on my legs. you want to see it? because i love him. he loves me. i would marry him in back of the cemetery if that's the case. it doesn't bother me. >> a relationship behind bars poses a unique set of problems. >> we get a visit every two weeks, i live for is for four hours every two weeks. >> those visits might become
even more restricted. since he was caught with a cell phone charger, prison officials might decide to put him on non-contact visitation status or suspend him altogether. >> hi, baby. >> they can also decide to can sell his upcoming prison wedding. >> i love you. >> i love you. >> are you doing okay? >> yep. >> no, don't even go there. >> serious. >> for the. >> i totally want to get married october 7g9. >> 7g9? >> yes. >> that will work. october 87th. >> we will push for it. >> while visitation helps inmates connect with loved one, others seek new relationships through personal apps. such was the case with michael holland. who formed a pen pal relationship with another man.
>> he's been a friend of mine for about ten years. he's 84-years-old now. last ten years anything i ever asked him for, he gave it to me. he took good care of me. >> i love him as a person. i don't have my family. he was a family i never had. >> holland has a history of troubled relationships. >> in 19 r7x i got out on parole from indiana youth center in plainville. they sent me to a town. i fell in love with a girl. i caught her with another man and i beat, stabbed and strangled her to death. and i have been in prison ever since. >> holland's current relationship might have a dark side as well. >> at the end of the july, i received a phone call from the daughter of an elderly gentleman on the street that indicated
that offender holland had had an ongoing relationship with her father for many years and basically it appeared, at least to her at the time, that he had scammed her father out of several thousand dollars to the tune of about $60,000 over the last 12 to 13 years. >> i don't agree with it at all. whatever somebody did for me, they did because they wanted to. i couldn't make them do anything. there was no fraud because i never lied. >> mr. holland has been misloading the victim into believeing that if he kept sending money that offender holland to an attorney, to a ficticious attorney, defender holland would be able to get out of prison. that's not going to happen. >> he has no money or anything. he can't function right. i don't have no money now. so that means i have do without hygiene, without laundry bags. i have to do without everything. >> coming up.
will everyone step if right now. >> the relationship between staff and offenders is probably what makes this place special. it has a maximum security setting. a lot of them are here for a long time. it's a more mature little of relationship. we literally have inmates that have been here for 30 years or more the entire career of some of our staff. they came in here together. >> what's up, old guy, how are you doing? >> as long standing as these relationships may be, there is a steady flow of encomers among inmates and staff alike. michelle ellis is a rookie officer in training. this is her second beak working
on prison grounds. >> my husband, you know, kind of was skeptical at first. i think he knows this is something i really want to do. >> i've always had a passion for law enforcement. it's just something i love. my kids were kind of excited. i don't think they really understand everything that's going on. you have to remember stay firm and consistent. you can't treat anybody any dichl we're all human. we are all men. you just have to remember. hey, this is the leiutenant again, can you send offender tye up to the custody, i need to speak to him. >> sense being caught with a cell phone charger, prison officials have suspended his contact visits.
now they've just handed down a roof on his request to be married at the prison. >> and tonight, you get married at this time, your conduct history. >> how can they deny me? >> this is what they did. >> all i'm doing is relaying the reason. he wrote down here safety and security of the facility. >> i got caught with a charger. >> i read you had a lot of reports. what was it close to 70 last year? >> hell no, i ain't had that many. >> i'm just asking. >> whoever told you that is a lying son of a [ bleep ]. i had nothing but two write-ups in the last, i don't recall two or three write-ups sense i been here. if the chap lane approved it, who is he to deny it? >> the superintendent. >> but isn't that unconstitutional? >> he's in administration. >> but are you saying the constitution ain't no good in here in. >> did i say anything like that?
you are trying to get an argument out of me. it's not going to work. here it is, bro, i'm trying to be, you know, decent about this colt right to you. >> i'm going back to my cell, man. >> all right. get your stuff. he's trying to make things a constitutional issue. it's not a constitutional issue. it's administrative issue. all he has to appeal it in the grievance process and let the northern regional director make that decision. he's got a lot of reports in the last five years. a lot of conduct reports. let me see. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight pages. he says he only has, one, two, he only had one or two so far this year. >> nick knox's conduct is also about to come under fire. >> we have a hearing today on fleeing and resisting. >> right now, i'm trying to
figure out if i'm going to explode or not and how to presentpy case. because i really didn't do this and officers have let me out. i'm going in there to hope to beat it. if i don't, i will lose time and probably end um up going to safe because i'm going to act a fool. >> knox! >> knox hopes to get off on a technicality one he has been toll has worked for other inmates. >> you were wrote up on class d resisting. when you were screened, you pled not guilty. listen to your plea. >> still for the guilty. >> what's your comment. >> look at the dates when the first-hand happened and when he had wrote me up it's like i think five six days. >> they went past the 24 hours. >> so we will check that and let you know. he is saying he was wren up on the 7th. they can run it on the 7th day.
>> it doesn't matter. >> this lady doesn't find people g. she's giving them a verbal reprimand. i didn't flee from the officer. >> we knocked this down to a class c grade 64 and found you guilty of that interfering with a staff member, 30 days. you want to sign that? >> why is everybody found not guilty but me, man? >> you want a c-1? you won't sign that? >> hell no, i ain't going to seen that, that's crazy, man. you got to take time. that's crazy, man i'm pretty mad. yes. >> in my opinion, mr. knox will survive this and we will probably see him again. >> they're lucky i didn't smack either one of them.
. >> one person is dead and 28 injured after a carbon monoxide leak. the cause of the leak is unknown. investigators are looking at the heating system of a basement in a restaurant. opponents filled the streets in venezuela's capital saturday. after two weeks of mass protests as opposition leaders call to cut crime inflation or step aside. . zplmplt
zplmplts. >> it's my vision of the free world. i lay here and dream about being out there. sometimes i sit and wonder just what the people think when they drive by. do they think we are all here mad men or do they realize we too are human. we too have family and loved ones and friends. we got hopes. we got dreams. we have pain. i wonder if the world knows that. >> i have worked here and isc for approximately three weeks now. it's going pretty well. it's definitely an experience. i like it. different. >> learning to manage the 2,200 done victs behind the walls of
indiana state prison is a gradual process. so far, it has done relatively well for the rookie officer michelle ellis. >> today i am supposed to go over to the tower sense i have not been there yet. i am currently in icell house and back and forth at checkpoint four trying to finish up my training. friday is my last day. that means i'm on my own as of sunday and i start my 12-hour shifts. >> new officers receive tow row training inside every one of the housing units before they are considered full flenled correctional officers. >> i am a female in a male prison. so a lot of hooting and hollering. i get that all day long, all day long. you got to kind of learn. morning. you let it get to you, you might as well go ahead and flip. you know, unless it's something really severe, you got to really let it go.
>> ron fit ronnie tye may have let something go. they have not allowed him to get married. >> it's a home-made knife made out of a steel rod you can find actually inside their cabins. >> the shank was not find in ye's cell in that of his half brother william wilson. >> i just moved into the cell. i have no clue how it got there. >> wilson is serving a life sentence for the murder of tye's other brother during a methamphetamine induced hallucination. >> at the time i thought he was my enemy. i don't know. i wish i wouldn't have killed him. >> what we normally do, we find out who these offenders are associated with. we also shake down who they're associated with. >> means even though the knife was found on his brother, he
will have his cell expected for contraband as well. >> tye. this is a shake down. >> he had a 467 inch shank. >> 467 inch? >> he's a grown man beside me. we come in alone. i love him. he'spy brother. i'd die with him if somebody was hurting him. he got a beating. he already has a life sentence pretty much. >> doing the shakedown. one of the things you want to check the obvious an unobvious. there have been times we found things hidden in the pipes. there has been times we found cell phones hit hidden in walkmans. >> come on, man, don't rip my -- >> we have a lot of things that get hidden in a light fixture. if you don't pull it down, you won't fine it. >> if you find something, you put it there.
>> you can hide things like cell phones. >> they already got that. >> this is another way, it's shaped out into a cell phone. this book will be confis kay. put in evidence. >> evidence for what? >> i will give it to ia. >> i just got a suspended snts, man. >> what do you mean, it's not no, what's the write-up about the book? >> this is where you used to hide it. >> dude, i brought my phone and gave it to you. >> like i said, ia will get it and decide what happens with it. >> what kind of write-up is it? >> i gave my phones to you. >> that's why you might be right. is that where you used to hide the cell phones? >> i don't know why, probably because my dumb ass brother got hit with ap-inch champg.
that book, i gave it to them. they write me up for that. this book was taken, he once hid a cell phone he once had. he would put it, walk around with the book all day, nobody would ever know. >> at indiana state, inmates aren't the only ones chaen shaken down correctional staff police themselves through surprise inspections for contraband or policy violations. though other prisons conduct such inspections, i isp was the first to allow our cameras to cover one. >> this morning we conducted a staff shakedown, this is our first line of defense. what happens is the staff member comes in, they go and proceed back here where they'll give their i.d. and sign in. the dog will shake them down. >> stash your bag underneath your seat. take your hat off.
>> we like to test the dogs so they're not querky for nothing. i'll hide a little marijuana on me to make sure the dogs are actually working. so as you saw there, the dog sat, which means i was working. >> you are all good now. >> members will shake them down looking for the contraband they are not authorized to bring into the facility. >> veteran staff members put the younger members to the test. >> make me take my hat off. >> what did you miss? >> so it's in my povenlth it's what you are here for to find it. >> while staff crack downs, today's will be a startling revelation. so you can breathe a.
. >> i'm ready to go home. you see a lot of stupid stuff in her here. >> it is what you make it. >> you get what you got coming. >> maintaining order among maximum inmates. this is correctional staff at the indiana state prison. but in order to maintain the highest level of security, the staff must from time to time police themselves. >> so we will periodically do a full staff shake down of all the staff in the facility off and on all day. friday we decided to do one. we had a couple incidents occur
with the shake down. >> prison under surveillance cameras capture and officer in the first phase of the inspection. facing the scrutiny of a drug sniffing dog. >> when the dog comes by, he gets up to the side, he locks up, freezes. he is indicating strongly on her. so there is something there to tell us that we need to investigate that further, that she's got something to tell us. this staff member here will raise her arm to indicate that the dog hit on that person there. so that we have her unwatch t. custody supervisors, the shift supervisors, whoever is available at that time, they will often converge on that area. >> the marked officer is a young rookie. michelle ellis. >> the k-9 indicated she may smoke marijuana in the last hour, hour-and-a-half or maybe the evening before. she was nervous when we talked, when she came up to talk to us. she told us, i wouldn't want to waste your guys time or my time right now to go out and pass the
drug test. that's what she told us. and then she says it's time that i resign my position. so at the time we took her written resignation and escorted her off the grounds. we have a zero intolerance or influence of any kind of narcotic or drug. she knew that when she got hired in. she knew she wasn't supposed to do it. when you have dirty staff around we call it, our staff had a break in the rules like that, it affects everybody on the job. >> following her resignation, officer ellis declined our request for interview. michael holland has just met with the prison disciplinary board for conned an elderly man out of thousands of dollars. >> michael, what's going on? >> found pe guilty of fraud. telling somebody i was going to come home. they sent money. they sent money, i didn't come
hom home. >> having contact with my friend. somebody out there cares. now i have nobody. all my family just passed away. so now i'm alone if they were to release me tomorrow, i would have nowhere to go. >> in addition to giving hope, one year in the highly restrictive unit, prison officials would like to pursue criminal charges. they might not get the help they need from the district attorney's office. >> at this point i will call the daughter back. >> hello. >> this is doug ayers. i was calling to bring you up to speed on the investigation involving your father at this point. basically, where we are at with it, internally i have charged defender holland with a class a
conduct report for violates of the state federal local law. unfortunately, with the prosecutor, i think we will encounter some snags on being able prosecute mr. holland, only, your father's age, his health and as far as having to travel to indiana. >> yes, she 84 and i don't want him leaving under the circumstances with this as the last thing in his life that he remembers. >> yes. and the other fact is holland is doing life sentence. so it's really from the prosecutor's point of view, what are we going to be able gain to prosecute him? >> yes. >> all the money has been probably spent. i still have a meeting with the prosecutor hopefully one day next week, see if we can do something else maybe not prosecute him on the felony but some lesser charge. i will be back in touch with you to let you know what his
decision is. all right? >> okay. thank you very much. >> ronnie tye is dealing with a very different sort of legal matter. he has appealed the denial of his prison wedding. he is about to get the results of the superintendent dan pittsburgh bride. >> i saw your earlier application. i saw where it had been denied. there are some reasons a marriage can be denied. one in the safety of the facility or the department or the individuals involved. >> what was the reason to use the safety and security of the facility? >> there was some concern that you were recently found in possession of a cell phone? >> actually i wasn't found in possession of a cell phone, i was found in possession of the cell phone charger. i gave them the cell phone to them after they shook me down didn't fine the cell phone. i brought it to them.
>> you were found guilty of possession of a cell phone. >> i pleaded guilty. >> first of all, you understand if this smaernlg approved, it will be a non-contact marriage? >> yes. >> and that you and/or your intended spouse will have for the bear all costs associated with the marriage? >> okay. >> what i will do is i approve your request to be married and your intended spouse will be informed by the marriage facility coordinator. >> we are excited about being married and all that like i said, she's a good girl. she's solid. >> she doesn't let things get in her way. she is there when you need her. in the good and the bad. i'm not excited about him. i'm ready.
if you are watching this, i love you, baby. >> with the wedding one month away, the news is bittersweet. shelves hoping the ceremony would end with a kiss. it's on a strictly non-contact basis. >> we can't touch each other. we are behind the glass. i don't want to talk about it, real really. >> still going to get married? >> we'll work it out. >> we're in a non-contact wedding. that means we will get paerd like this, on the phone, right? >> yes. >> how am i supposed to give you a ring? how are you going to give mae ring? >> i have no clue. >> there is no kissing the bride? >> i don't know. it might be through glass.
don't cry. everything's going to be all right. why are you crying? >> because this is driving me crazy. >> smile. you're stressing for no reason. ten months, it will be all over with. >> i lover you. >> it's going to be okay. you got to be positive sometimes. >> coming up, even a non-contact wedding comes with plenty of bridal jitters. >> i'm freaking out. . o
i must begin my journey, which will cause me to miss the end of the game. the x1 entertainment operating system lets your watch live tv anywhere. can i watch it in butterfly valley? sure. can i watch it in glimmering lake? yep. here, too. what about the dark castle? you call that defense?! come on! [ female announcer ] watch live tv anywhere. the x1 entertainment operating system, only from xfinity. i'm on non-contact, so i'm
getting ready to have a non-contact wedding if i wouldn't have gotten hit for the phone, i'd have a contact today. you know, it's the consequences i got to pay regardless if i get married to jodie, that's the way it is. >> is that it? >> think she is doing it? think she is nervous? >> i'm freaking out. >> i'm freaking out. i'm sit i sitting often a toilet in an indiana state prison fully clothed. i'm just triping. >> tell us about your bachelor party. >> it wasn't too much of a bachelor party. >> it was all right. >> does this 30 make me look allureing? >> how are you feeling right now? >> good. >> did you dress up for wedding
time? >> that's why i'm here. i love thisgy. i'm really excited. does my hair look okay? i'm freaking out! >> it doesn't matter where you get married. >> you sure i look okay? the honeymoon will be awesome when he gets home. i'm freaking out. whew! >> you are here because it's a piece of paper. for the, it's more than that. it's a covenant and one that you end with god as a witness. how long have you known ronnie? >> ronnie, i've known him for many years. a long time. >> and you say you really love this guy? >> yes. yes, i do. he's awesome. he is a really good guy. i'm aware of all the ups and
downs. i'm prepared to help him adapt back to society. i realize it's going to be some trouble for him, a psychology class, i can handle it. it's kind of awesome, yeah. i think i can handle it. >> the process, as far as the wedding, when you are laced in the fawn contact booth you will need to put two phone, one in each hand, so you will be able to hear yourks intended spouse as well as the minister as they are going through the wedding vows. okay? >> yep. >> also, you have requested to have your brother attend a wedding ceremony. that will not be permitted because he has been in idu or the detention area. okay? >> all right. all righty, let's do it. >> where do i go? >> you ready?
>> yeah. >> are you nervous? >> this is the pastor. this is pastor rossi. >> good to meet you, ronnie. >> me, too. >> you ready for the big day? have it's do it. >> we are gathered here, joaned together this man and this woman in holly matrimony. ronnie, will you have this woman for thy wedded wife to live together in your holiest state of patry money, will you love her, cherish her, honor her and protect her in sickness and in health and forsakeing all others keep only unto her so long as you both shall live? >> yes. >> jodie, will you have this man to thy wedded husband, to live together in the holiest state of mat try money? will you love him, honor him, cherish and comfort him in sickness and in health forsakeing all others, keep thee unto him so long as you both
shall live in. >> yes. >> do you have rings you wish to exchange? >> yes. somebody's got to walk it down there. >> get proof of that on camera. >> okay. have you your ring on? >> yes, i do. >> under the ordinance of the laws of god in the state of indiana, i nouce you husband and wife. >> you two can kiss the glass. >> they don't allow that around here. >> okay. thank you. >> yes. we are married. >> i love you.
. due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. there's always a sense of underlying fear, and i think that it's important to not ever forget that. >> in a world dictated by fear, some resort to violence. >> while i was on lockup, i was always involved in excessive violence. >> when i was stabbing him, i was talking [ bleep ]. i said, you feel kind of vulnerable now, don't you? >> others become victims. >> -- in prison for rape, which