civil liberties or more likely they saw the firestorm that was unleashed in arizona and decided no thanks, we don't really want to deal with that. it's never over till it's over for things like this. for this experiment in >> another day, another batch of e-mails in the george washington bridge scandal. >> more e-mails just published by "the bergen record" today. >> newly unredacted documents. >> bridget kelly and david wildstein. >> this is not about the governor. it's about people very close to him. >> there's still a lot of information out there that has to be gathered. >> and tonight in boston, chris christie and mitt romney. >> they don't come better than chris christie.

>> a bad story line and a worse story line. >> that's generally not a right way to launch a campaign for president. >> ted cruz secedes from the union. >> he's looking at 2016. >> if that means destroying mitch mcconnell, so be it. >> ted cruz is believed to be one of the most polarizing figures in america politics. >> for him, compromise is a curse word. >> things can change in politics. >> tea party patriots are gathered in d.c. to mark the fifth anniversary. >> it's a civil war within the republican party. >> you don't keep following failed strategies. >> the midterms will be here before we know it. >> there's a possibility that republicans will pick up the senate. >> there is a certain amount of reality that we have to deal with. >> house speaker john boehner. >> it's boner, boner. >> strategy session. >> democrats hope if they can't win the house, maybe republicans can lose it. >> the new jersey legislature's

special committee investigating the george washington bridge scandal released previously redacted messages from david wildstein today. they include exchanges between wildstein and bridget anne kelly six days after kelly sent the famous maesage, time for traffic problems in ft. lee. in the newly unredacted exchange, david wildstein sends a picture of a new jersey rabbi with john boehner to kelly and wildstein says, he has officially pissed me off. kelly replies clearly. we cannot cause traffic problems in front of his house, can we? wildstein flights to tel aviv all mysteriously delayed. kelly, perfect. four days after the lane closings in the george washington bridge, wildstein and kelly were worried about press inquiries. wildstein, wall street journal

just called my cell so i need to speak with you. kelly, i'm calling your office. no answer. kelly, i spoke to mike. we also now know that david wildstein and the port authority deputy director bill baroni were worried enough about what happened at the george washington bridge on november 12, 2013, baroni asks, are we being fired? they were not fired, but were allowed to resign in december and were both praised by governor christie as they exited their jobs. there is another exchange where wildstein and baroni worried about new jersey senator loretta weinberg and assemblyman john wisniewski disrupting one of their press events. wildstein, instructions for gaggle. do we let weinberg and wiz attend. can we stop them? baroni, how do we stop them? it just creates an issue. wildstein, i don't see how, but need to ask you. baroni, yeah, they will beat us up either way. joining me now is steve kornacki who has been covering this story from the beginning.

he is the host of msnbc's "up with steve kornacki" on the weekends at 8:00 a.m. steve, a little more information here. we knew the previously that wildstein was a little bit worried about getting fired one day because there was an earlier e-mail about should i bring boxes today. >> i came into work with boxes. now you have baroni -- it's not the only time in the stuff that's come out where baroni, clearly his job security has been on his mind. when he gave his testimony to the assembly that's now pretty much been discredited, but that's at the end of november, we already had exchanges come out where he was immediately very concerned about what does trenton think about this. one of the things i believe was in today's e-mails that came out about that, the governor's counsel, chief counsel apparently charlie, a reference to charlie was very happy any response to baroni being concerned with how trenton, how the administration, how sort of the powers that be in the

administration were responding to his testimony. >> but this is crucially important. chris christie is insisting charlie mckenna is one of the trusted saints in his office who he has said investigate what happened here, when he finally got curious about it in january, and that here you have charlie mckenna involved very early in this and giving them reviews on how well they're doing with what turns out to be, fk o, a cover story. >> right. again, we these fractures bits of desk. if this is a legitimate, you know, review from charlie mckenna of bill baroni's assembly performance, if that's what that represents, then the only story that charlie mckenna could tell you was i was duped. they laid out -- everything that bill baroni said about these special ft. lee-only lanes. if you're from that part of new jersey, you drive through that part of new jersey, you can say

it's transparentally disingenuous, that he was duped by that story. the only other alternative at that point if he had that kind of knowledge was he was impressed by the stage craft and performance of something that he knew to be disingenuous. but that's yet to be revealed. >> the rabbi who finds himself to his surprise, apparently, in these e-mails has said today that he has no idea what that's about. somewhere, i have a quote from him. no idea what it's about. and he says, i've never -- david wildstein made reference to me in newly released e-mails. he's a psychopath, i've never met him. >> wilson, that was actually key -- >> oh, wildstein -- >> sid wilson. here's what i say about that. just having worked for david wildstein when he was the anonymous blogger in new jersey. we would joke back and forth, i think there was a certain type of political character, and i don't know this rabbi, his role

in new jersey politic, doing a little research on him today, though. he seems very eager to get his picture taken with, you know, famous political celebrities. i saw pictures on line with four or five prominent republicans that he got his picture taken with. and he seems pretty eager to promote that. that type of political character really made that my boss, when i made david wildstein roll his eye, we would go back and forth about who are the worst offenders. >> and sid wilson is one of the worse offenders? >> he's comparing -- i didn't take that as being -- i don't think it reveals about the bridge operation. i think that's just -- he identified that rabbi as being somebody who dfsh. >> but what we're seeing in these e-mails is real attitude confirmation about team christie and the way they looked at this stuff. this stuff is fun. this stuff is stuff you joke about, attacking people and trying to do harm to them as in the case of the rabbi is

something you are interested in trying to find a way to do that. you know, will traffic problems work for the rabbi? >> that's the part that jumps out at me. that exchange is taking place, i think august 19. so august 13 is the date of the famous bridget kelly, time for traffic problems in ft. lee. now six days later they're texting. it comes up again. it's a very familiar point of reference for them. it just shows the premeditation that ewent into the lane closures. this was something very much on their mind. you wonder how many other references not just by them but anybody else that had knowledge of this. but this is something that was very much on their minds clearly before september 9. >> now, last night on the radio, he -- christie strongly continues to support david samson. let's thereon that. >> there was one other i think that was in the new york news this week that i wanted to talk about.

and that goes back to the port authority. your top port authority appointee, david samson was target of criticism by the p.a. executive director patrick foye. he was asked if samson had the moral authority to lead the agency and he said no but wouldn't elaborate it on any further. do you still support samson as your appointee? >> strongly, firmly. and i disagree with pat foye. >> this is an editorial calling for samson's resignation. samson is clearly in an e-mail using real new jersey gangster language about pat foye when pat foye's big offense is he has stopped the crime that's occurring at the bridge. and he's done the right thing. and you get this e-mail from samson when he finds out about that saying, you know, he's playing in traffic. you know, this is going to be bad for him. real thug gangster language from

chris christie's honored chairman of the port authority. >> general samson. it's more than that, too. it's what's been released about david samson and his activities after this. >> we've got to stop here. people don't realize, you've got a big job. you're the chairman of the port authority and you are allowed to have any other jobs you want in the world. >> that's what -- yes. that's the other thing that's kwom out. it has nothing to do with these transcripts. he has this job saz port authority chairman and he also has this job of he's the head of this giant pillically collected coffer. and so much has come out in the last few weeks. we did the hoboken story. the port authority, david samson was weeks away from formally being confirmed. but the port authority paid for this redevelopment study in hoboken. it came back and gave the recommendation that the developer represented by david samson's law firm hoped for. and then e-mails start coming to city officials in hoboken with david samson copied on them in his capacity as the head of this law firm trying to set up

meetings, trying to set up conference calls so that people in this city who depend on the port authority, they're a port authority city, they're at the mercy of port authority for financial and transportation issue, they're at the mercy of david samson's port authority. now you have to talk to lawyer david samson representing this development interest who wants to build a tower in your city. and by the way, whose port authority paid for the study he wants to talk to you about. >> samson is a walking scandal all by himself. in any other environment. the only thing that's protecting him right now is this giant board of other -- with other names on the scandal sheet. so it's hard to spend enough time just on what a scandal samson is. >> and this is a question that's been raised in this whole process. when david wildstein's lawyer trying to get his bills paid. he also alluded to conflicts of interest between port authority commissioners. it's very unclear what he's saying but it seems he might be

hinting at more about david samson. we've seen several conflicts come about david samson. a paz station in harrison. we' seen multiple examples. >> every breath samson takes at the port authority takes is a conflict of interest and christie knew that would be the case. he knew what his real job was. "up with steve kernacki." coming up, the republicans and ted cruz and the battle that never ends between them. and joy reid joins me to talk about the president's new initiative, my brother's keeper and the extraordinary comments the president made at the white house made today. and bill o'reilly will tell us why he doesn't want to be president. he really doesn't. tweet me your guesses about why bill o'reilly doesn't want to be president.

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>> today this happened at john boehner's press conference. >> mr. -- >> boner, it's boner. >> he said it, not me. listening to fantasies by ted cruz. [ woman #1 ] why do i cook? because an empty pan is a blank canvas. [ woman #2 ] to share a moment. [ woman #3 ] to travel the world without leaving home. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish. make it delicious with swanson. [ male announcer ] whatever the reason. whatever the dish.

always one step ahead with an intuitive motion activated lid and seat, kohler makes sure you'll never have to ask him again. >> they will say the fight to stop obama care did not succeed. really? you know, i'm a big believer that the proof is in the pudding. really?

what puding. the pudding that says the fight to stop obamacare succeeded? today, ted cruz went to one audience who would eat up that puding. the tea party patriots were celebrating their fifth anniversary, which the democrats in the senate were secretly celebrating along with them, since the democrats have been able to preserve their majority in the senate thanks exclusively to tea party candidates who otherwise politically weak democrats were able to beat. at the time cruz began his day at a politico event where he was questioned by mike allen about his loyalty or lack of loyalty to the republican party. >> so just to button this down, you now would not raise money for or support any group that was targeting sitting republican senators? >> look, i have made no such ironclad promise, but -- >> why not? >> what i have said is i'm likely going to stay out of incumbent republican primaries. i haven't put that in concrete

but i'm likely going to stay out of republican incumbent primaries. >> why aren't you putting it in concrete? >> because things can change in politics. >> when ted cruz was asked about mitch mcconnell, he had a one-word answer. i'm going to say a name and you're going to say the first word that comes to your mind. mitch mcconnell. >> leader. >> that's a statement of fact. >> that is what is stencilled on his door. >> ari he could not keep a straight face when asked about the minority leader of his party in the senate. that's what's stencilled on his door. >> do i get to take that long in my responses? that's what i want to know.

>> yes, you can think it over. it took him so long to come up with a line. >> it's a small moment, but it is funny. he style himself as such an anti-politician, but as you know, he's a very political guy that beat the pause there. the pregnant pause about how he wants to deal with mcconnell. and he knows right now mcconnell is in, not only a real primary with matt bevin, but we see numbers he' trails behind a brand-new democratic challenger here in allison london-grimes who bill clinton was out campaigning for. what you're seeinging in that pause is the calculation of you know what, i messed with mcconnell a lot. this is not the week for me to pile on. and in that pause is the political grand standing that i think characterizes ted cruz. a guy who wants us to believe he's a true believer. i think those are great in both party, but he's proved to be a guy full of machinations. >> but in that moment he knows his crazy tea party audience that eats his pudding that somehow the fight to stop

obamacare worked. they believe that. that he knows they're listening too. and he knew he had that line ready after the word leader. it's what's stencilled on his door. they get it. i'm not actually calling him a leader. this is the most minimal way i can -- >> it was almost like the quietest dog whistle you could ever hear. >> it was perfect. let's hear some of what he said about the leadership in his party in washington. >> should mitch mcconnell be the senate republican leader? >> that is the decision for the kofshs to make. >> what's your personal opinion on that. is he a strong winner o -- leader or a sellout? >> i strongly disagree with some of the decisions the republican leadership has made this past year. >> is he a strong leader or a sellout i believe is the question. i mean, you could --

>> it's politico's world, we just live in it. those are your only choices. look, i think we know from his govr nance and his votes that he is not with mitch mcconnell, he would be almost with anyone in the caucus other than mitch mcconnell. >> i don't think so. i think a majority of the caucus would behave exactly like mcconnell if they were leader. so he would be against, you know, all but i don't know, michael e. if leader. >> there's no one -- the tea party caucus in the senate is ted cruz, mike lee and rand paul. that's it. that's why they have to go to tortilla coast, the restaurant off the hill. that's true, by the way, folk, and have meetings with the house republicans. the guacamole there, i've got no problem with it. but they have these little meetings because that's their leverage. as you pointed out in the now infamous question, lawrence, what pudding, sir? what pudding, what pudding has obama care been repealed. they have those meeting.

they apply that strategy. and there's two pieces to this. one, as you said, the politics didn't work. they did not repeat the a.c.a. they hurt themselves in the shutdown and the larger military piece is they got some automatic budget cuts through the 2011 deficit-driven tea party threat to default on the debt. and now chuck hagel is carrying those out and folks like senator rubio and other colleagues are saying we don't like the thing we made you do under the threat of default. >> there is no democrat that causes them more trouble than what 2ed cruz causes them. they don't have a majority in the senate, the republicans don't, because of ted cruz and his ilk who have been pushing these candidates who can't possibly win when they get the nomination. the democrats have to secretly be watching this and whatever, you know, personal dislike they have for cruz, they have to sit there in the senate and go we are so lucky that ted cruz is

just ruining life for republicans in the senate. >> oh, yeah. democrats absolutely feel he's been a huge thorn in the side. he's a messaging nightmare. and when it comes to senate parliamentary procedure, which is something you and i happen to have the benefit of knowing a little bit about. he's also a liar. and it makes republicans look really bad. there is such a thing as a real filibuster that you go to the floor and try to make that point. and every so often it gets grandly covered. when we went down for his nonfilibuster because there was no an actual cloture motion he was dealing with, it was not a filibuster, according to what senators care about, which is the rules that they are governed by, he went online about it and it was the same in the politico interview, he was asked again about the shutdown. he said the republicans didn't cause the shutdown. it was obama and harry reid's shut down. that's not true. you can have a political debate about if it's a good thing. that's what politics is. it's a lie to say the president or the senate leader denied the

government to be funded. that's a pants on fire fully fact checked lie. and it's interesting to me he's the kind of guy, that will lie in a way that will get caught. and those are the worst lies in politics. >> thank you very much for joining me. coming up, joy reid is here to discuss some extraordinarily personal comments that president obama made at the white house today. that's next. >> in "the spotlight" tonight, ♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand.

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>> in "the spotlight" tonight, my brother's keeper. at the white house event today, the president spoke in extraordinarily personal terms about the challenges facing boys who grew up the way he did. >> i explained to them that when i was their age, i was a lot like them. i didn't have a dad in the house. and i was angry about it even

though i didn't necessarily realize it at the time. i made bad choices. i got high without always thinking about the harm that it could do. i didn't always take school as seriously as i should have. i made excuses. sometimes i sold myself short. and i remember when i was saying this, christian christian, you may remember this, after i was finished, the guy sitting next to me said are you talking about you? i said yeah. >> joy reid, has any president ever spoken more personally and revealingly at a white house podium? >> no. and i think just the view we get into the inside of barack obama's mind is something we' never seen in a president. this is normally what happens when a biographer goes back 20 years later and tries to reconstruct the sort of interior

life of a president. with barack obama, you even seat it from the autobiography about drug use, who he was in terms of race, anxieties, racial identity, his family, his father. now he's doing that again as president. i think historians have got to be losing their minds over this. this is really extraordinary and historic. >> and it felt very -- it was nationally televised. it's a big white house event, big audience there. but it did feel like it was directed specifically to those boys behind him and boys like them all over the country. and he was going to say what they needed to hear. i mean, for the president to say, you know, i got high and i wasn't always thinking about the harm that i could do. to say it so easily and directly, i think he made the decision, i don't care what that sound like to adults out there who might not like it or might no be comfortable hearing a president say it. he needed those boys to hear it. >> i think we've seen the demystified presidency since bill clinton.

as swooef had these advances in social media where you sort of personalized everything, i think he's living in a time of a demystified presidency, but he's doing it even more. and to your point, even at a public event like this, this was not president obama speaking to a room full of people. this was barack obama turning and directly speaking to young boys and saying to them, i'm just like you. the fist lady does that a lot, too. when she's speaking with african-american girls. and he was literally almost delivering what i used to hear in a methodist church sermon. where you would have the pastor saying i understand the wrongs that are in your own life. i want you to walk a better path. walk the path i did. and he was acknowledging that it isn't always possible. not everyone has the bridges that he did. but he's saying there's no excuses. despite the things i understand are wrong with society and make your lives harder. this is his message.

it's a core message for this president and he's sticking to it and tripling down on it. >> there's a part of this speech you wanted us to hear. >> addressing these issues will have to be a two-way bargain. it's ultimately going to be up to these young men and all the young men out there to seize responsibility for their lives. no excuses. government and private sector and philanthropy and faith communities, we all have the responsibility to provide you with the tools you need. we've got to help you knock down some of the barriers you experience. that's what we're here for, but you've got a responsibility, too. i know you can meet the challenge. many of you already are, if you make the effort. it may be hard, but you will

have to reject the cynicism that says the circumstances of your birth or society's lingering injustices necessarily define you and your future. it will take courage, but you will have to tune out the naysayers who say the deck is stacked against you. you might as well just give up. or settle into the stereotype. >> joy, no excuses was his message to the boys. >> yeah. and it's a fundment tally conservative message. what's interesting is that he did point out, reverend al sharpton was there, but that bill o'reilly was there, too, and they agree on this. that is sort of the old school, old time religion message. whatever societal problems you think are holding you back, it's not an excuse for you to is a advance. it really irritates a lot of young black men who say you're blaming the victim and you're saying you're putting all the

burden on them to ignore all of these social ills that are real and not dealing with the social ills themselves. it's something that the president's critics don't like. but the interesting thing about president obama is that he knows that. he is actively engaging those critics. and he is pushing back. and he really wants them to agree with him that this is the right message to send to young black men. and you get the sense that this is a president who doesn't want to leave office not having given this message to young men, not having been a physical, living example of what he wants them to aspire to. he is a guy who believes that this aspirational politics is his core. that's his kansas grandmother talking to him. his upbringing with by his grandparents is what you hear. and he really does believe it. >> let's listen to what he said about the statistical picture for a young boys of color in this country. >> if you're african-american, there's about a one in two chance you grow up without a father in your house. one in two.

if you're latino, you have about a one in four chance. we know that boys who grow up without a father are more likely to be poor, more likely to underperform in school. as a black student, you are far less likely than a white student to be able to read proficiently by the time you are in fourth grade. by the time you reach high school, you're far more likely to have been suspended or expelled. there's a higher chance you end up in the criminal justice system. and a far higher chance that you're the victim of a violent crime. fewer young black and latino men participate in the labor force compared to young white men. and all of this translates into higher unemployment rate evens poverty rates as adults. and the worst part is, we've become numb to these statistics. we're not surprised by them. we take them as the norm. we just assume this is an inevitable part of american life.

instead of the outrage that it is. >> the statistical picture like that rattled off by politicians is -- i've never heard it be as moving as that that. >> absolutely. and those things are inarguably true. and the satsst part of it is unsaid in that soliloquy is there's absolutely nothing that elected government in washington is going to do about it. but just the fact of those statistics is itself so polarizing it leaves a lot of people on the right to dismiss african-americans as pathological and leaves people look for solutions from a congress that isn't going to pass a dime if in funding to do anything about it. the positionings this president

is in, he understands those statistics. he understands how the pathos of that and he knows in a legislative manner, he can't address it. so now he's trying to see how can he still do something about it. and i think this is a white house that said, i'll convene. i'll find the people who can do something about it. and isle use the power of the office to draw them to me and then ewing sort of the enfluns, the natural influence as president, to get them to do it. because clearly washington is failing, is really failing young men of color in this country. and those are the governments all the way down the line. he knows it and he's president of the united states and there's nothing he can do about it other than convene. and that's really kind of sad for our society. >> yeah. it's -- the things he was talking about there also later, he talks about he doesn't have a son. he has these daughters. he talked about what he would hope for for his son. again, it's one of those things

where i really can't imagine another politician who could have spoken this way, especially in the white house. >> no. it's extraordinary. it's one of the reasons i think it's such a good thing that we have an african-american president, for all the negatives that have happened, all the really kind of shocking disrespect that he's faced, for all the controversies and how angry people got when he said things that are self-evident, like if he had a son, he would look like trayvon martin. i think this country needed to have this moment. we needed to have this presidency happen so we could test ourselves and see where we are and assess where we are in terms of race as a country. we found out some things we don't like. but i think because thf president is so open, we've also found some important things about the presidency and him in it. i think it's a good thing. >> joy reid, thank you very much for joining me. your show is 2:00 p.m. that's where i steal all the stuff i then use on this show at 10:00. thank you very much. >> thank you, lawrence. coming up, a dramatic, i

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♪ a new york times poll say 8 out of 10 democrats wasn't hillary clinton to run for president in 2016. the same poll shows that 10 out of 10 democrats want chris christie to run against her. >> up next in the rewrite, bill o'reilly's brave questions. >> there's got to be some down . [ doorbell rings ] the johnsons! stall them. first word... uh...chicken? hi, cascade kitchen counselor. stop stalling and start shining with cascade platinum packs. over time, platinum fights cloudy residue 3x better than the competing gel. it's so powerful it even helps keep the dishwasher sparkling. avoid embarrassing moments... at least for your dishes. cascade. beyond clean and shine every time.

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all-you-can-eat is a hotel policy that allows you to eat all that you can. the hotel gym is short for gymnasium. the hotel pool is usually filled with water. and the best dot com for booking hotels, is hotels.com. it's on the internet, but you probably knew that. or maybe not, i don't really know you. bellman: welcome back, captain obvious. captain obvious: yes i am. all those words are spelled correctly. >> there's got to be some down side having a woman president, right? something that may not fit with that office. correct? >> it takes a brave talk show host to ask such a stupid question. and as bill o'reilly will tell you, he's the bravest of us all. let's see how o'reilly's guests

handled that very brave question last night. >> correct? >> i'm going to say no, bill. >> there's no down side to having a woman -- >> just because you're female that something -- let me ask you this, what's the down side of a man being president? >> well played. that's exactly what a democrat on the payroll of fox news had to say. you can't just say that's a stupid, offensive question. and turning the question back on bill is your very best move for him. but don't think bill doesn't have an answer. >> look, men are men and women are women. there's a difference, okay? there's a difference between the genders. now, men, they're tied up a lot

of in their macho image. they act like you're not going to push me around. that could be a deficit, you know? >> what's he talking about? since when does bill o'reilly think that's a deficit. >> hold it. i'm getting teed off at you. one program! >> entitlement. why are you yelling at me. >> you're lying. >> don't call me a liar. >> no, you're lying! it's jack what you're saying. >> where's the deficit there? last night bill o'reilly kept pushing his case that there's something wrong with having a woman president and finally he found an answer. >> there's got to be a down side for a woman. do you know one? >> i'm having a tough time with this one, too, bill.

i think it depends on the individual. of course there's a down side to certain individual women. >> but in general, you both don't see any gender deficiency to lead the free world? >> well, look, i can actually think of something. >> oh, good. if. >> if you can take your example of men being macho. a woman might feel like she needs to act macho, for example, maybe feel like she had to take, vote for, say, the iraq war. i'm just going to say theoretically, to make it look like she would be a tough leader when she was in office and that she's not afraid to use military force. >> that's what hillary clinton did. >> yes. >> oh, yeah, hillary clinton vote for the iraq war that put it over the top. there were 77 votes in the senate authorizing the iraq war. most women senators voted yes. but hillary clinton is the only woman who voted yes who is accused of voting yes simply to

prove her toughness. and most men senators voted yes, too. and none of them have been accused of voting yes to prove their toughness, including chuck schumer, hillary clinton's new york partner in the senate who voted yes. barbara boxer voted no. dianne feinstein voted yes and no one attributed either one of those to gender. one group of senate democrats who unanimously voted yes were all of the senators who planned to run for president. joe biden voted yes, chris dodd voted yes, john edwards voted yes, john kerry coyote voeted yes, joe lieberman voted yes and hillary clinton voted yes. they all voted yes and they all ran for president. you can debate why hillary clinton voted for the iraq war and presidential ambition probably had something to do with it. but gender clearly had nothing to do with it. o'reilly ended his segment by asking his democrat and republican women guests if they wanted to be president.

and each of them said no, proving, i guess, in o'reilly's mind, anyway, that women don't really want to be president anyway, so what's all the fuss about. and once again at the end, his clever democratic guest turned the question back on bill. >> bill, do you want to be question? >> i don't want to take the salary cut. it would be devastating to me. >> it wouldn't just be devastating to bill o'reilly. spokesperson: we decided to settle this. a steel cage death match of midsize sedans. the volkswagen passat against all comers. turbocharged engines against...engines. best in class rear legroom against other-class legroom. but then we realized. consumers already did that. twice. huh. maybe that's why nobody else showed up.

how does one get out of a death cage? vo: hurry in and lease the 2014 passat for $189 a month. visit vwdealer.com today. i'm a messy person. i don't like cleaning. i love my son, but he never cleans up. always leaves a trail of crumbs behind. you're going to have a problem with getting a wife. uh, yeah, i guess. [ laughs ] this is ridiculous. christopher glenn! [ doorbell rings ] what is that? swiffer sweep & trap. i think i can use this. it picks up everything. i like this. that's a lot of dirt. it's that easy! good job chris! i think a woman will probably come your way. [ both laugh ]

>> up next, a behind the scenes account of what could have been a white house disaster. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon.

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we inspect, analyze, and recondition each one, until it's nothing short of a genuine certified pre-owned mercedes-benz for the next new owner. [ car alarm chirps ] hurry in to the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event. visit today for exceptional offers. ♪ when we turn it on tomorrow morning, we're going to knock your socks off. that's what the white house chief of staff was saying privately about the website for the affordable care act the night before it was turned on and failed miserably. and two weeks later, the president was secretly thinking of scrapping the whole thing and starting over. so reports the new article for "time" magazine on how obama care was saved. this is a drama.

i've read a lot of white house accounts. >> they did knock everyone's socks off. >> they did. yeah. how did they get to the point where the white house chief of staff and presumably the president believed that when we turn it on tomorrow, it's going to be so great? >> because that's what they were being told. they would ask these i questions, in fact, the same chief of staff told me the president would end every meeting when they were planning the launch by saying well, this is all great, but none of it matters if the technology doesn't work. does the technology work? everyone said yes, boz. the technology works. getting their information from the department of health and human services and the medicare people who were supposedly building the website. and everybody was just afraid to tell them, i guess, or they didn't know this thing was a

disaster waiting to happen. >> those people, were they all working out of their depth, working on something they had never done before? >> i think the evidence is clear that they were. but more important -- >> was that was nagging at the in the hey, wait a minute, these aren't generals who have run this exercise before. are people doing something they have never done before. >> i didn't interview the president. i don't know that it was nagging at him or if he wasn't just stating the obvious. but what i do know is that they hired a bunch of contractors. none of them got along with each other and there was literally no one in charge. i started doing some reporting if what are i thought was going to be a dramatic article on the successful launch of the site on october 1. i started doing that in july and august. i went down there one day in the summer and interviewed about a dozen people at the white house, health and human services, medicare. and i would almost as a conversation starter i would say

who's in charge? and i didn't even pay much attention to the answer until i got back on the train to come back to new york and starting reading my notes. i realize i had gotten 12 different answers. i got home that night and i said, this is in trouble. there's nobody in charge. >> they discovered trouble very, very quickly and they bring in this emergency team. first of all, how did they assemble them. i might want some of the best tech in the country but who knows who they are. >> they talked to people in silicon valley and the irony is they talked to the veterans of their own campaign staff who had put together all the data, the analytic, put together the -- >> best ever in a campaign. >> they were deal with the political analytics people from the beginning to create the marketing messages, but they didn't talk to the technical people who created all the software and knew how to write code. those are the people they reached out to on october, beginning october 18 or so.

and those are the people who rode into the rescue. >> what was the feeling at the beginning of the rescue, was there confidence that we were going to rescue this thing? you have here the president saying october 17, we may have to start over. >> the first job over five days was these people who come in and look at it and say do we have to scrap the whole thing and come back in six and nine months? and what they said was the lucky thing was the people building it had made so many obvious mistakes that it was quickly fixable. so they said, you know, in ten week, we will be able to rebuild the website that all these contractors for over $300 million had spent 2 1/2 or three years building. don't worry, we think we've got this. >> there's a passage in here about government is not in the business of delivering a product online the way other retailers are.

>> they don't deliver consumer products. >> consumer product. you say in here that's normally done in a small circle. you try one state and you see how that works and then you start to expand it out over time. >> no one does the complicated software delivery all at once. whoever created the software that's running the control room here tested it first before they brought it, you know, to msnbc and nbc and said here, use this in every studio. no one does that. they did that. >> what about -- this is a goth that operates this giant thing called social security, medicare, millions and millions of participants who are being tracked through the computer systems. it seemed like the government knew how to deal with millions of people through this way. >> they do, and as you know, they've had some problems. for example, when social security was started, they had a tech problem. they had a computer problem. you know what it was? no one could figure out how to

create enough different numbers for people. >> social security numbers. >> there had to be 15 million numbers. so they always know they have problems. but they tend to solve them in a better way they did here. although now, it works. >> so you're confident -- >> it's really dramatic. >> in terms of the website working is it all settled now? >> it's not all settled. the back end of how they pay the insurance companies still have to be done. but these people work through thanksgiving. they work right up to christmas eve. they literally worked 19 or 20 hours a day. eld go out to the shopping mall to buy new clothes. and they got it done. in that sense it's a good story about people who were modest. i mean, the hardest reporting i had to do was to get each of these people to take individual credit for something they did. >> you can tell. you have heros in here. and they just won't step up that way and claim that. >> selfless, they're modest.

and they come from silicon valley which is not what you often think of these days when you think of silicon valley. >> this is great reporting an analysis. thanks, steve. >> thank you. battle at the top? let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. for a while now here on "hardball," i've spoken of joe biden actually challenging hillary clinton for president next year when they both have to decide. well, today we learned in a big front cover article for politico magazine that biden is now blowing his own cover, showing his true 2016 ambitions. he makes unforgettably clear that he wants to run. believes he would be as good a president as the recent