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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  November 26, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PST

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that's amazing, steve. i could watch that all night. >> i'll do it all night and break roker's record. >> do a kornacki-thon, go ahead. thank you, steve. >> all right. >> tonight, it seems the only people in american law enforcement who don't know the law of land on the use of deadly force by police are the two prosecutors in the michael broup case who presented that evidence to the grand jury. that's coming up. but first, we will go life to ferguson tonight. >> there's hope in the air that we've seen the final bits of destruction. >> the families are praying with families of other victims. >> every city with a police department needs to engage in some introspection. >> we're just going to keep nig fighting, pray for a better outcome. >> a boy killed holding a pell let gun. >> how in the world has this
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happened? >> law enforcement has been on edge all over the country. >> shootings have sparked outrage nationwide. >> it's nice once in a while just to say happy thanksgiving. >> talk about a transition. >> president obama pardoning this year's national thanksgiving turkey. >> i know some will call this amnesty. >> their names, mac and cheese. >> i will tell you, though, turkeys don't have the best looking heads. >> millions of americans are trying to get home for thanksgiving. >> holiday travel, a mess from the roads to the skies. >> travelers are being advised to pack plenty of patience today. >> we would have more luck playing pick up sticks with our butt cheeks than we are getting out of here before day puerto rico braek. >> is anybody getting home to see grandma? >> it's been a quiet day so far
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in ferguson, missouri. michael brown's parents responded to darren wilson's first television interview. >> he said he could do it again. >> his conscious is clear. how could your conscious be clear after killing somebody, even after an accidental death. >> and allow the body to sit there for four years. >> exactly. we couldn't even have our son's organs donated. you understand that? they wrong. they know they're wrong. >> here's how michael brown's mother responded when asked how she will face her first thanksgiving without her son. >> i'm just hurt. i don't even want to think about tomorrow being thanksgiving. it's just thursday. i don't even plan to celebrate because i can't. >> at this hour, we are continuing to monitor protests across the country, including in
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oakland, california, where last night nearly 1 00 protesters were arrested. joining me now from ferguson is msnbc's zach roth. zach, what's the situation out there tonight? >> lawrence, it's calmer than it was last night, which in turn wuds calmer than it was on monday. i've just come from the ferguson police department, there's about 40 or so protesters chanting. the national guard is out in frors president nop just in front of the police department but all along the strip where a number of businesses, many bisz suffered damage the last few nights. so it feels calmer, but at the same time, with the holiday coming up, we talk to people who say it's difficult to feel any -- to have any celebration this year. people who are aware that michael brown won't be with his family this holiday season. there's a feeling of sadness and, of course, kind of
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lingering injustice about what we've seep in the last few days. >> zach roth, check in with us if anything develops out there. thanks for joining us tonight, zach. >> thank you. >> there is now another investigation of a police killing in cleveland, ohio. this time, the victim was a 12-year-old boy. the orlandoal police story was that tamir rice reached for his waistband after being asked to put his hands in the air. we will show you a video of what actually happened in a moment. what brought police's attention to police rice was a 911 call from a man sitting in a park who saw him holding a pistol. in the 911 call, the caller clearly says the so-called pistol is probably fake. he also clearly says that the person carrying it is probably a juvenile. here is that 911 call. >> i'm sitting in the park at west boulevard by the west
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boulevard and there's a guy holding a pistol. it's probably fake but he's, like, pointing it at everybody. >> where are you at, sir? >> i'm sitting in the park west boulevard by the west boulevard rapid transit system. the guy keeps pulling it in anticipate out of his pants. it's probably fake but you know what, he's scaring the [ bleep ] out the people. >> what does he look like? >> gray coat on. >> is he black or white? >> gray coat with black sleeves and gray panks. >> is he black or white. >> i'm sorry? >> is he black or white? >> he's black. he's sitting on the swing right now. but he's pulling it in and out of his pants. and pointing it at people. probably a juvenile, you know?
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hello? >> do you know the guy? >> no, i do not. i'm getting ready to leave, but he's right there by the youth center or whatever. but he keeps upping it in and out of his pants. i don't know if it's real or not. >> now listen to how that information was transferred to police officers in the field from a different person running the police dispatch radio. she makes no mention of the possibility that the gun is fake, or that the person is probably a juvenile. >> hey, we have a code 1 at cudell. everybody is tied up on priorities. a guy sit on the swings pointing a gun at people. 1910 west boulevard, 1910 west boulevard. in the park by the youth center, there's a black male sitting on the swings. ehe's wearing a camouflage hat,
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a gray jacket with black sleeves. he keeps pulling a gun out of his pants and pointing it at people. code 1. 8418 8418. >> all right, so primary and 25. if you want to assist. >> that's fine. >> just head over there now and the address. >> 1910 west boulevard. 1910 west boulevard. 8418. >> radio shots fired. male down, black male maybe 20. black revolver, black handgun. >> here now is the security
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video that shows what tamir rice was doing that provoked the 911 call. you can see right there that the gun is clearly out. he's holding nit a pointing way that that 911 caller was describing. that's what the 911 caller was describing when he called in. pretty accurate description by the 911 caller. and now here is the silent surveillance video that shows what happened when the first police car arrived on that scene. >> joining me now msnbc's joy reid and ohio state senator nina turner. i want to actually show the audience that video one more
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time, because we are not slowing it down for slow motion. i actually thinks that distorts the sense of what happened. i want people to see just exactly how fast this happened and see if any element of the original police story holds up after you look at this video. let's all watch it one more time. nina turner, the original police story was he put his hand towards his waistband and we told him to put his hands up. there's absolutely no time on that video for anything that the police said happened to have happened. >> not at all, lawrence. and i'm glad you took the time to let your viewers hear the two different dispatchers. because one dispatcher did take all of the information, but the way the information was relayed to the police was not complete.
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and just the mere mention of the word black male causes some police officers to decide that they want to go out and shoot in that way. tamir rice was not a black male. he was a 12-year-old boy. and his mother and his father and his family is in agony right now because this little boy -- boy, not man -- african-american boy, and too often in this country, young african-american males do not get the privilege of being able to grow up. and i say this to you, lawrence, from a deep space of being the mother of an african-american son who was racially profiled. having a husband that was racially profiled. almost every black male i know has been racially profiled at some point in their lives. and my son is a police officer right now. so i understand the burden of skin. and too many african-american parents have to teach their children, especially their black males, their sons about the burden of skin.
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this is heavy in every single way. it does not make sense. and we should wait for the investigation, don't get me wrong, and the rice family is calling for that, but what we do know tonight for effect is a 12-year-old boy, somebody's baby boy is dead. >> and joy reid, you know, did you see anything on that video and the way that the police approached that looked like tamir rice had any possible chance that there was anything he could possibly do with a police officer jumping out of the passenger side of that car and shooting instantaneously? >> no. i think frankly absolutely not. some of the things that stood out first of all, it was the rookie officer who jumped out of that passenger side of the car, basically jumped out and instantly started shooting. there was no time at all for any human being to comply with whatever orders he may have
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given. and obviously there's more sound on the video. the more experienced officer was still in the car. the other thing is that video that you showed was truncated. it didn't show the previous part of the video where it saw tamir rice basically just being a kid. he's walking around, he's making snowball, doing very child like things. and yet from the person who called 911, who can understand someone sees a person with a gun, they get nervous and call in. but erg else the way people communicated about this little kid, who was acting very child like. you know what little kids frb doing from time immemorial, they've been pointing sticks and friending they were guns or toy guns or water guns and pointing them around. these are how kids behave. so the fact that the fear of black men is so pervasive that a, he could be described as being 20 when he's 12. he's described adds a guy instead of a boy. and there have been shud dis
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that show people perceive african-american boys as men even when they are obviously children. and if you see that picture of tamir rice's face, he's clearly a child. and senator turner talked about her kids. my kids are both older than this boy and to me they're boys. they are children. they're tanl eenagers. but the presumption of boy is missing from the lives of black men. they don't get to be boys. they're either perceived as men or super men. incredibly palpably and inextricably evil and lunging and attacking and never perceived as ever afraid, passive, or trying to comply. he didn't have a chance to comp comply. >> and nina turner, this gun was at some point described as a toy gun. it turns out it's a pellet gun that fires a soft edge rubber kind of pellet that can't really do any significant harm to anyone. there was no way for the police
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officers at that speed to evaluate, is this a toy? and they were not told by the dispatchers that the person who called it in said it might be fake. they were given no reason to think it was anything but a person with a gun by the dispatcher. but it's still their job on the scene to evaluate those facts for themselves. >> absolutely, lawrence. and everything that you said is fair. that is fair. but we do need to deal with, you know, from tamir rice to even john crawford. if you remember down-crawford at beaver creek, very similar even though john crawford was 22 years old, but the same thing. he's in the walmart. he's oblivious. he's on the cell phone. he has a gun in his hands that's sold in the store. and the police come in there and they shoot. second later, he is dead. very, very similar circumstances. we have to deal with how police relate to african-americans and latinos in this country. the burden of skin should not be tolerated in the 21st sefrmry.
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and back to a point that joy made about some of the ways that even darren wilson, when it comes to michael brown, how he described him. you know, professor charles carroll in the 1900ed wrote this article, this essay called the negro, the beast. as he described, using the bible to describe black people, particularly black men as beast-like. that same phenomena, our issue with race in this country, we have to deal with this and we have to go beyond conversations to action. and that need to happen right now. this wait that is going on in 2014, this burden that folks are carrying in 2014, it is about a sense of fairness. and you can't have communities of color who fear the police, who do not believe that they're going to get a fair shot. all of that is real. and something that president obama said in his speech about we have work to do and we cannot pretend that america is everything that it can be.
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this is all of our burdens to carry. and baby boys like tamir rice should not be gunned down like that. >> law reps, if i could say one quick thing. the other thing, african-americans, we keep hearing responses from some, not everyone, that essentially these young boys are bringing this fate on themselves. they're not doing enough to comply. that somehow they're causing their own deaths. it rings very hollow to african-americans. when you have people walking around for actual gups for whom police stop, evaluate and use their training. where is the part of the police training where you're supposed tole evaluate the situation, try to communicate with the person, find out what's .haing. it's just instantaneous bullets flying. when you have people walking arnold with real guns as a demonstration project and they're spoken to and evaluated but these black men and boys are instantly shot, any other argument that that is -- something is wrong with it will ring really hollow to african-americans. >> thank you both for joining me tonight.
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>> thank you. coming up, in the "rewrite" what the prosecutors in the grand jury room in the michael brown case had to rewrite themselves before they finished their work with that grand jury. an egregious mistake, if it really was a mistake, was made by those prosecutors. and then they had to correct it and they didn't really correct it. i will read you the transcript that shows you all that coming up.
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and if you didn't have to drive, this is what you missed on some roads. accidents from south carolina all the way to maine, along major highways. amtrak had record ridership last year and is expecting to break another record this thanksgiving weekend. joining me now is nbc meteorologist dominica davis. what's going on right now? >> at one point earlier today, we were looking at this storm that pushed all the way back down the koes. we're just seeing the tail end of this storm is now moving out of new york and the leading edge is pushing up into portland, maine. so that is the good news. this system will be out of here by tomorrow morning. on the back edge of this, we are getting some slight slow and some rain that's pushing in through the midwest into the ohio valley. that will wrap up as well.
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airport delays are getting much better. logan see nothing delay at this hour, along with most of the new york airports. the only airport was seeing with a delay at this hour was newark. they're hanging on to about an hour delay. but the storm is shrinking and that is the good news. we're still getting snowflakes in new york. in boston, you're still pretty much in the thick of this storm. you have a couple of mur hours then it will be out of here. by thanksgiving, the entire tomorrow is over and that is the good news. improving picture with a winter storm warnings now which pretty much extend from maine all the way down to hartford. so that as shrunk considerably. so by overnight, this is going to be pretty much history. and then we can get on to our thanksgiving. enjoy the holiday weather with no weather worries from coast to coast. we'll still have a few lingering snow showers up through parts of boston, right around the mass pike area. you're looking at the heavy wet
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snow. so shoveling, that is going to be on tap for tomorrow morning, but other than that, no real problems. even off to the west coast, looking pretty good. seattle a few showers in the morning, but pretty good thanksgiving day forecast. so i would say, lawrence, the worst is definitely behind us. >> so i'm going to have no trouble getting from boston here back to new york on sunday? >> no, you're going to be fantastic. that's the good thing. everybody from east coast to west coast right through the weekend are going to be fine. so the travel back, everybody trying to get back to work by monday morning will do so trouble free. >> thank you very much. >> happy holidays. >> coming up, states making recreational marijuana legal, a few problems. how do you regulate pumpkin pie with marijuana? than ever why now is the best
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perhaps on your table tomorrow, marijuana pumpkin pie. if you're having your thanksgiving dinner colorado tomorrow, you could have some very interesting dessert choices. the sale of edible marijuana products has boomed since january. you can learn all about what's gong on in the legal marijuana industry this sunday night at 10:00 p.m. when pot barons of
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colorado premiers. it follow s the men and women building their colorado marijuana businesses and fortunes in the process. >> many colorado holiday shopper, at least those of legal age, have a new option this year -- putting marijuana on their shopping lists to both give and get. and if they're christmas shopping in den verdict they won't have far to look. denver has more marijuana dispensaries than liquor stores of starbucks. and one of the more popular gift items may be munchable marijuana, known as edibles. >> you can try lots of different kinds of edibles. we have chocolates, we have drinks. >> edibles are almost half of the nearly $1 billion in marijuana products that will be sold this year in colorado one of the leading companies makes pot-based soda. a drink which may replace
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champagne in some colorado homes this new year's eve. >> we just grossly underestimated the demand from the adult-use consumer and specifically the infused products. >> so this is hash oil combined with butter. we average 2,000 to 3,000 bars a day. >> companies that make edibles, whether soda pop or chocolates are growing like, well, weeds. but so are the store es which sell them. this looks like a high-end apple store. >> i can help the next person in line. >> it's been crazy busy. we've been slammed. we've been blowing through all the popular strains. >> and as coloradoans set off for grandma's house this holiday season, they may be bringing a special desert, marijuana-infused pumpkin pie. i'm alex wagner. joining me now is gary cohn, the executive producer of the new series "pot barons of
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colorado." what is the biggest problem that this budding industry is facing? >> you know, i would say the single biggest problem is meet meeting the demand. the demand for product has been so extraordinary that it grows like a weed and that's just not fast enough. the first thing the pot barons point to raz an issue they want to have addressed. but, you know, mostly there aren't a whole lot of problems. the sky hasn't fallen. people still wake up in the morning and go to work and legal marijuana has not changed the world as we know it which is an amazing thing. >> gary, i spoke to someone earlier this evening who has been involved in the not quite so legal marijuana business in california and he says the california growers are untroubled by this legal competition at all. because he's indicating that colorado actually does have such
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a big demand that some of that california illegal product is still going into colorado. >> absolutely. you know, the black market is entrenched and has been for generations. and the demand for the product h is well established. it's just never been legalized before. so, you know, it's only been 11 months since you could legally buy marijuana without a doctor's prescription. and you know, yes, there's a very healthy market for legal marijuana, but the black market still exists. and it will be quite a while before the legal market drives prices down low enough that the black market is going to be seriously impacted. and that's even in colorado. so when you talk about nationally, the black market is here for a while. it's not going to go away overnight. >> the strapgest thing about it as a business is they literally do not know what to do with their money.
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they're depositing their profits in bnks. >> yeah, it's -- if it weren't dangerous, it would really be funny? what do you do? you have so much money you don't know what to do with it. the problem is banks are federally regulated and according to the feds, marijuana is a schedule 1 market, and as such, the banks won't do business with marijuana companies. it's called money laundering. and they could be fined severely. so the dispensaries are handling an awful lot of cash. they don't get business loans. they can't run payrolls through payroll services. and all kinds of different things are just squeezed, you know, through filters that normal businesses just don't have any idea how to -- you know, what they're going through. >> "pot barons of colorado" premiers this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> preesh it, lawrence. >> coming up, why justice ruth bader ginsburg is happily working away this weekend in her
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district attorney handling the case said this to the grand jurors. i'm going to pass out to you all, you're all going to receive a copy of a statute, it says law enforcement officers' use of force in making an arrest, and it is the law on what is permissible, what force is permissible, and when in making an arrest by a police officer. the assistant district attorney then handed the grand jury a copy of a 1979 missouri law that was ruled unconstitutional by the united states supreme court in 1985. she was hanging them something that had not been law in missouri during her entire legal career. but it was very helpful to officer darren wilson what the assistant district attorney handed the grand jury an old
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unconstitutional law which said incorrectly that it is legal to shoot fleeing suspects simply because they are fleeing. by hand pg the grand jury that unconstitutional law, the assistant district attorney dramatically lored the standard by which darren wilson could be judged. she was telling the grand jury with that document that darren wilson had the right, the legal right to shoot and kill michael brown as soon as michael brown started running away from him. she was telling the grand jury that darren wilson didn't have to feel his life threatening at all by michael brown. she was taking the hurdle that darren wilson had to get over in his testimony and flattening it. she was making it impossible for darren wilson to fail in front of this grand jury. she was doing all of that by handing the grand jury a so-called law that has never
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been the law of missouri during her entire legal career. the portion of the missouri law that was ruled unconstitutional says that a police officer is justified in the use of such physical force as he or she reasonably believes is immediately necessary to effect the arrest or prevent the escape from custody. that was ruled unconstitutional by the united states supreme court in 1985. it was legal to shoot and kill fleeing suspects in most states until the court made it illegal in 1985, and everyone in law enforcement knows that. everyone except the two assistant district attorneys who were presenting the evidence to the grand jury in one of the most important cases of police use of deadly force in country since 1985. there is nothing more helpful,
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the assistant district attorney could have done for officer darren wilson before, right before his testimony than show that incorrect, outdated, unconstitutional law to the grand jury. the grand jury then listened to officer wilson's testimony with the belief that anything he did to michael brown would be fully justified legally simply because michael brown at some point ran away from officer wilson. there was a tame when that's all you had to do in america to be legally shot and killed by a police officer, just run away from the officer. in those days, american police were summarily executing people in the streets for suspicion of crimes that if they were convicted for, they would not have gotten the death penalty, and in many cases not even gone to jail. kids jumping out of stolen cars and running away from cops could be legally shot in the back and killed in these days for a crime that obviously did not carry the
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death penalty. there was actually one case of a man who spit on a police officer and then ran away from the police officer and was legally shot and killed by the police officer. spitting an a police officer was a crime in that state, but it did not carry the death penalty. unless you ran away from the officer. the district attorney's office allowed the grand jurors to travel back in time to the good old days of american law enforcement when the cops could shoot people for running away, before darren wilson was born. that's how far back in time they went. the assistant district attorneys did that by using the old, unconstitutional law as the window through which these grand jurors would evaluate darren wilson's conduct. the grand jury listened to the officer's testimony believes that according to the law michael brown didn't have to
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pose any kind of threat to officer wilson to justify officer wilson shooting him dead. weeks after frgs wilson testified, several weeks after that, just as the grand jury was about to consider what charges they might vote for the assistant district attorney knew that she had better amend the record of these proceedings by introducing to the grand jury, the real law, the accurate law on police use of deadly force in missouri 37 and so she told the grand jury, previously in the very beginning of this process, i printed out a statute for you that was the statute in missouri for the use of force to effect an i arrest. so if you all want to get those out, what we have discovered, and we have been going along with this, doing our research, is that the statute in the state of missouri does not comply with
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the case law. this doesn't sound probably unfamiliar to you that the law is codified in a written form in books and they're called stat e statutes. but courts interpret those statutes and the statute for the use of force to effect an arrest in the state of missouri does not comply with the moe mo supreme -- i'm sorry, united states supreme court cases. so the statute i gave you, if you want to fold that in half, just so that, you know, don't necessarily rely on that because there is a portion of that that doesn't comply with the law. she then handed out to the grand jury a new document explaining the law on police officers' use of force and then said, that does correctly state what the law is on when an officer can use force and when he can use deadly force in effecting an arrest, okay? i don't want you to get confused
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and don't rely on that copy or that printout of the statute that i've given you a long time ago. it is not entirely incorrect or inaccurate, but there is something in it that's not correct. ignore it totally. a grand juror then asked, the supreme court, federal court overrides missouri statutes? >> now, we all learned the answer to that in high school. it is one word. yes. that is why we no longer have segregated schools in this country. the supreme court said it was unconstitutional and illegal to have segregated schools and that is the only reason states like mississippi and alabama and arkansas and, yes, missouri, no longer have segregated schools. but the assistant district attorney when asked the simplest question she could possibly be asked by a grand juror, does the supreme court override missouri statutes couldn't bring herself
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to say a simple truthful yes. instead she actually said, quote, just don't worry about that. her full reply, word for word was, as far as you need to know, just don't worry about that. the other assistant district attorney in the room added, we don't want to get into a law class. america already had a law class on this when alabama governor george wallace stood in the door way to prevent the first black students from attending class at the university of alabama because the united states supreme court had ruled states segregation laws to be unconstitutional. the federal government crushed the little powerless, angry governor of alabama when he needed to be crushed in that
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doorway by the righteous power of the united states supreme court and the federal government. it doesn't take a law class to explain to a grand juror that, yes, the united states supreme court does indeed override missouri statutes. it takes one word. yes. but that is not the worst, most unprofessional aspect of assistant district attorney's presentation to the grand jury about this law. the very worst part of it is that she never, ever explained to the grand jury what was incorrect about the unconstitutional statute that she had gwynn them and left with them as one of their official papers for weeks and weeks and weeks. you will not find another legal proceeding in which jurors and grand jurors are simply handed a
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law and then weeks later handed a correction to that law and then the grand jurors are simply left to figure out the difference in the laws by themselves. that is actually something you would do in a law class. figure out it by yourself. with prosecutors like this, darren wilson never really needed a defense lawyer. how could a luminous protein
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or just $140 for a family of 4! and three: get $150 credit for every line you switch. the more you switch, the more you get. verizon. peter alexander has this report. peter? >> good evening to you. the uva campus is largely cleared out now for the holiday, but zunts and administrators there are struggling to deal with a deep-seeded issue as the president of the intrafraternity council himself conceded sexual violence is a serious problem. it's upsetting to admit. >> your story is not unique? >> it's not. i heard from a lot of women like me. >> emily knows firsthand about rape at uva. as a freshman, she said she was
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sexually assaulted at a fraternity house on campus. her attacker, she say, never punished because he transferred schools. now employed by the university, she councils other sexual assau assault survivors. every student you say needs to look in the mirror? >> every student needs to look in the mirror and says what do i do that supports survivors and stops it from happening. >> uv sa's board addressed the firestorm at an emergency meeting tuesday. >> i would like to say to jackie and her parents that i am sorry. >> reporter: weeks after charlottesville police investigated the disappearance and murder of hannah graham, the university president has asked chief longo to investigate jackie's case. >> there were bystanders. there were people in that room. who saw and heard what is being
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called shocking and horrifying, and i hope that there's -- those bystanders have the moral courage to come forward and help us with that investigation. >> even as protesters silently condemned the school's policies, one side of uv a's founder reading, second you'll misconduct, a jeffersonian tradition, the board vowed to come up with new solutions. >> if we can't deliver on this fundamental duty, then we, all of us, we will have failed. >> they call for change as this campus community goes through a painful re-examine nation. >> we are facing a deeply kind of terrible thing that's happened within our community and that undermines your understanding of trust here. >> at the conclusion of its meeting yesterday, the uva board adopted a zero tolerance policy on sexual assault, but it's still unclear what that means and hout it will be enforced.
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lawrence? >> thank you, peter alexander. joining me now is a senior editor and supreme court writer for "slate." what are the legal liabilities for the university in this situation? >> i think that's one of the things they're trying to figure out now. and i certainly saw in an e-mail thread this week, lawrence, suggesting that some of the faculty think that the university really could be on the hook, or for in effect tura blind eye for years. the thing that i am hearing everywhere here in charlottesville is people saying that as shocking as the "rolling stone" article was, people are not all that surprised that this has been known for decades as a party school, as a school where the greek life really takes precedence other, you know, the rules. and just a feeling that the university has not only known that this is going on, but as the article alleges, kind of hidden it in some ways.
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to keep students from being perfectly informed. so i think there is a real discussion going on now as part of the larger question about how the university can fix this, is what is the university also on the hook for? >> and is there any way of trying to determine how much of this is a fraternity problem? >> you know, i was at that board of visitors meeting yesterday, lawrence, and one of the things they were trying to tease out was how much of this is a greek problem, how much of this is an honor code problem, how much of it is just binge drinking. and i think the single-cause discussions are only helpful to a point. probably the real answer is, and this is what the "rolling stone" article getting to, we are not reporting rapes on campus ps . the data i saw shows that 5% of rapes on campuses are actually reported to the police. and that by diverting them into
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these title 9 hearings or honor code systems or these alternate systems that often encourage reconciliation and encourage all sorts of thing, encourage the