tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 5, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
thank you dave corn. great trio tonight. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes begins right now. >> tonight on "all", the uproar on the grand jury continues. >> o living roomlympic medallis carlos. and no evidence directly implicating ne ining new jersey chris christie. and we have liftoff. >> the dawn of orion. >> is the orion spaceship a
critical step on the mission to mars or a political boon dockle. >> this is tomorrow's technology. we'll learn from this. >> "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. a man shot and killed by an nypd officer. demanding more this hour is not eric garner. this wake is happening two days after a grand jury decided not to indict. sending thousands of people out in the streets from across the country. tonight, out in new york and washington, d.c. after more than 200 people arrested in new york city last night, according to the nypd. the protest against the grand jury continues, we are learning more about the process that produced that decision.
wnbc reporting today that asking grand jurors to consider only man slaugt other and criminal negligent homicide charges and not the lesser reckless endangerment charge. we spoke to the d.a.'s office today. a spokesman had no comment on the report indicating the d.a.'s office is not authorized to release any additional information on the case. now, new york city is about to go through this entire process again. this afternoon, brooklyn district attorney says he will convene a grand jury to look into the death of another african american man. he was killed last month in a brooklyn public housing building. police say leon was patrolling
with his gun drawn and he fired it, apparently by skep e don't. his girlfriend ran to call 9-1-1. >> the deceased is based on total innocence, in that the offices were entering to the adjacent hallway, one landing up, and was not engaged in any criminal activity. the deceased was not engaged with any activity other than trying to walk down the stairwell. anonymous sources told the daily news the officers involved were not supposed to be patrolling the stairways. they were spoefkly ordered not
to carry out such patrols known as verticals. while girlie lay in a stairwell, the cop who fired the fatal bullet was texting his ruinon representative. we reach old to the nypd's largest union to ask about the allegations in the daily news. the daily news story about the officer texting the union delegate does not appear to be true. we have over 400 delegates. this morning, gurley's mother spoke for the first time about seeking justice for her son. >> my son was my life. there's nothing in this world that can heal my pain and myhearted ache. and i pray to god that i get justice for my son.
my son didn't deserve to die like that. he didn't deserve to die like that. joining me now is dafd figa. what was the outcome that mr. donovan actually wanted. what does it say to you that he did not seek that lesser charge. >> it says everything. let's just go through what reckless endangerment in the fist degree is. under section 112025. you have to deprave human life and you've got to do it under circumstances that create a grave risk of life and we know what happened. so you've got a video that shows two elements, the important two elements for that charge. why it wasn't submitted, none of us will ever know, but i have a pretty good suspicion. >> what is your suspicion.
we're getting news today we now have a shooting death and we have news told about a grand jury. i'm not sure the city can take another -- i'm really -- i think the reaction to something happening like this again is not going to be good. >> i agree. and i hate to be the voice of moderation here. but let's take a moment to differentiate between these two things. there is a vast difference between stupidity and choking a guy to death. we want to see justice. by the way, just fix the lights. you shouldn't be walking around with your gun out and a flash light. but you shouldn't be putting someone in a choke hold. it's disfavored.
so to circle back to your question, the reason i don't think it was submitted is because he want ed a a no true bill. one of the ways is to force a jury into an untenable position in which they have to charge someone with a homicide offense. and that's a big lift. >> in your experience, and you have a lot of it, is it possible -- even the best prosecutor in the world, the most honest man or woman with supreme integrity, based on what they do every day, how they have to work, what the institution has set up, is it possible that any prosecutor really can be independent and fair-minded in the prosecution of a police officer for doing something to someone that results of a death on duty. >> it's really hard for someone. and it's really hard when you're district attorney in a place
like staten island which is full of police officers where your constituency supports a true bill case. you're asking is it possible? yeah, i think it's possible. if you created a union that focused solely on investigating and pros cuting police officers, you take a big step towards that. but the way that the political system workings right now, you have prosecutors who rely on their police to make their cases. when a star acts up onset, you go to great lengths not to mess up the show. that's the kind of courtesy that you afford to the people who carry your show. >> so over the past several weeks, we've heard prominent police union officials speaking very stren youszly on behalf of their members to protect them.
>> the process used in this case was indifferent. >> we feel badly that there was a loss of life. but it was a guy that chose to resist arrest. >> we don't always get a chance to look back at what could have been done. we had to react right now. >> well, the statements are not just posturing. the role of the union is to protect their members at every moment, especially when they're facing allegations of misconduct. can you talk about reform without talking about police unions? i mean, what is your feeling about police unions? as someone who's a supporter of labor, watching the way pligs unions have blaifed in the wake of these different shootings. >> well, it's disappointing to see those responses from the union officials.
let me be very clear, everyone deserves. there is -- and they should defend their members, to an extent. but we also need police unions to be stake holders and to reform processes in all of these departments around the country. it's not that the union didn't have training. there's something structurally and -- structurally problematic about how we recruit and train police officers across the country that results in the killing of black people. >> and white people i would add. it's actually striking, the numb bore. here's the thing, the theoretical police union that might exist, the actual police
unions that we've seen have not only fought tooth and nail, but they have fought against all the policy that is you're talking ashlt. they fought against new training. >> for any of the forms that the mayor wants to imp lemt, it has to go through the ranking fielg. now, i don't know what the ranking nile is vis-a-vis the leadership. i think we should separate that. and they're talking about empathy between their neighbors.
so i wouldn't want to cast a large net to say this is terrifying. >> that's exactly my point. one of the matters is all of the policing in this room. and when you see it in st. louis talking about thugs. then the question is, okay, these are the institutional players that are the actual stake holders in how people are going to be police pd and how we're going to train those police. >> i think we could have a whole discussion about strategy to vote oet those e lekked leaders. i think that's the way to go. that has to be -- there has to be a different strategy versus the putting the pressure on the police commissioner. not just in new york, but in cities across the country. >> and david made this point,
right? there's a bunch of differences. i was acutely aware of this in ferguson. i was talking to voters in missouri. the way that a certain constituency of people who are viewed in political power is very different than folks would feel about them. >> oh, absolutely. whether it's political leaders or union leaders, i actually don't think we know. no one has done a survey about how they feel. we need more data. >> and, in fact, in some cases, we have seen ranking file officers blow the whistle.
so the laut that happened came because the supervisor told him to go out and get more people of color. >> that's right. so there's an important role for whistle blowers, especially. i would bet many new york city police officers don't believe in that right now. >> we're looking at police message boards and trying to add it up. you can do it. all right. thank you. >> thanks, chris. >> still ahead, john carlos, one of the medallists will join me live to take a share of his opinion about professional athletes currently protesting. the little things we d can make a big difference. every time you use dawn, you're using a brand that supports wildlife rescue efforts. experts trust dawn... because it's tough on grease yet gentle.
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jaust as the report from a year-long investigation of the governor of chris christie, there is news today that some of his former staffers may soon be indicted in their role in those lane closures. the interim report states in its conclusions, "at present, there is no conclusive evidence as to whether governor chris christie was or was not aware of the lane closures, either in advance of their contempt ration. nor is there conclusive evidence as to whether governor christie did or didn't have involvement. the basic take away is that the governor is not itchly kated. the lawyer hired by the governor's office to conduct its own investigation, the committee has finally acknowledged what we reported nine months ago.
namely, there's not a shred of evidence that governor christie knew anything that any current member of his staff is involved. in the u.s. attorney's criminal investigation, at least half a dozen potential federal indictments may be handed down as early as january. those facing potential diemt include from staffers and current and former port authority officials, the sources said. what does it mean for a man who clearly has presidential aspirations. >> how do you make sense today? we have the report and it looked pretty good for chris christie, right? they've been trying for a year. they can't find anything to tie him to et it. you've got to, at some point, say he's in the clear. and then this other report. >> so i think the best way to look at it is this. keep in mind, all the news you heard this morning were about the legislative reportedness.
that investigation by that committee did not include any testimony or any information from any of the principle characterers that we have been talking about. all these names that everybody knows by now. >> bridgett kelly. however, all of these people have been dealing with the u.s. attorney's office. so the second report tonight, why this is key is that the u.s. attorney's office, which has been talking to all of the principle players, and has had access to all sorts of stuff that this committee didn't have, is now looking at he says at least six indictments of former
christie staffers. the number six is a lot higher than anyone has been talking about. >> let's take a step bark. how do you interpret the timing of this. the way that i interpret it, the christie office sends out a kind of crowing statement. look, we told you so. and then someone links to wnbc and it's, like, look, not so fast. they basically said no proof that chris christie knew ahead of time. when that happened, as you might expect from christie's office, a full court press concerted public relations campaign. the exoneration. >> sometime to move on.
>> as soon as this report, this report by the way, this legislative committees report was supposed to come out next week. it was leaked out last night. and as soon as it was leaked out, that press began again. they even had the former governor of new jersey tom cane go out there and talk to the press today and say this whole process just stinks. so they have been ready to do that. and, now, all of the sudden, for the first time again, nobody has been able to get reporting from inside the u.s. attorney's office. and now, brian thompson, the best of the best is saying that nobody has been able to get indictments to find out what is going on. >> indictments are a big deal. six indictments in january would be a huge deal. obviously, it would kmeetly, i would say, realter once again the political trajectory of
chris christie if nothing else. >> and it just raises to the extent of what's going on here. if there are this many people involved, it raises the question who has provided things. a lot of questions have been raised. >> you can of course catch steve's show at 8:00 a.m. eastern right here. thank you. all right. a bomb shell report about a rape on campus now being questioned about the person who published it. with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.
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after a series of questions were raised about the credibility of a bomb shell investigative report on "rolling stone", today, the magazine editors are apologizing to readers for kwt discrepancies in the story". the report opened last month with details of a horrible gang rape in the fall of 2012. a woman is identified with jackie. jackie alechblged she went out on a date. a student called drew went to another party in the fraternity house and was led to a room and attacked by seven men who raped her in succession. according to rolling stone, erdaly did not speak to the accused at jackie's request. now, the magazine's editor posted this statement to readers that reads, in part, in the face
of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies and have now come to the conclusion that her trust has been misplaced. and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters. today, the washington post published its own report working to corroborate jackie's version of events. the fraternity's faculty advisor, jackie's friends and former roommates and others on campus. the now 20-year-old junior told the paper she stands by her version of events. a few details of the acount seem to be contradicted by verifiable facts.
jackie was asked on a date by drew. the washington poegs reports a name of an alleged attacker that jack can provided to her friends for the first time this week, for example, turned out to be similar to the name of a student who belongs to a different fraternity. no one of that name has been a member of the fraternity. a uva garage water said friday that he did work at the aquatic fitness center and was familiar with jackie's name. perhaps most troubling, a red flag raised to the reporter by jackie herself. according to the washington post, jackie said she asked to be taken out of the article. theresa sullivan said late today the school would not alter its focus on sexual violence.
charlott charlottesville police department declined to comment on the status of that investigation. >> josh, tell me the process. >> sure, for us, this was a local story. it's a very important college campus for us. not just locally, but also nationally. we looked at the "rolling stone" piece and decided that there's definitely something here for us. we decided we wanted to get into it. the only responsible thing to do is go down to the campus. try to locate the people who have been allegedly involved in these sorts of things and then run all the facts to ground. all school.
hitting the bricks. trying to meet people and understand the situation. that's exactly what taylo taylor shapiro did. we reached out to everyone we could find associated with this fraternity for the last several years and tried to run these things into the ground. taylor got to meet jackie, got to interview jackie several times. we wanted to take that story and find out as much as we could about every lmt of it. was there a party that night? what happened at that house? who was involved. where they were now. could we find them. could we talk to them. that's what led to our story today. >> there are some denials saying they didn't host a party that night, which doesn necessarily mean that there wasn't a party at that house that night. i just want to be clear what has been established independently.
>> houses have to register parties. something like a day party or an organized event would have been that kind of thing. we learned that there was a date party at sometime earlier that actually would have been quite distinguishable wearing the clothing that was described as the out fit that she was wearing. that party would have been quite noticeable. the fact that in reaching out to all of these fraternity members and to people close to jackie, and learning, essentially, that there wasn't a party or if there was, it certainly wasn't an organized date function. the fact that some of the details alleged were shocking to people within the house as well as to those without. these all led to further reporting. we wanted to answer these questions the best we could. some of the things certainly today were in the denial from the fraternity.
but a number of the facts were things that we had independently verified in conversation. >> so here's where i want to drill down. your piece numerous times, i'm still a little unfair on this. the key thing to meal seems to be that there's a figure at the center of this who's a real person what's treated with a pseudonym. and it's pretty clear that in the rolling stone article, he was never contacted by that reporter. perhaps e prance not everyone given -- his real name was not given to that reporter. the name that you have didn't come directly from jackie. it came from her friends who said that she told him that pam. is that correct? >> thaekt. >> and that's the person that you contact? >> yes. in the course of our reporting, we wanted to push to get a name. it was very important to us. that was something that we had a lot of discussion to taylor about.
we were able to get that name through the friends and we ran that to ground. it actually wasn't very difficult to run that name to an individual person. we contacted that person and it provided for the first time that detail that jackie had provided to be a life guard. this person was a junior life guard. and in this particular case, this person was a life guard and was in a fraternity, just not the one that had been identified in the story. >> and, of course, denied that any of this happened. thank you very much. really apreernuate it. >> you're welcome. >> there's a great piece by apanda traub about victims of trauma and their recalling of events that i would recommend to everyone. we talked about the story. a lot of people talked about this story. but it's another lesson about the fact that you have to talk
to everyone in a story as much as you possibly can. all right. right now, protesters are in the streets of washington, d.c. protesting the grand jury decision last weekend held up their hands in su ports offering e ferguson protesters. what might happened this weekend, john carlos will join me next. to catch the 4:10 huh? the equipment tracking system will get you to the loading dock. ♪ there should be a truck leaving now. i got it. now jump off the bridge. what? in 3...2...1... are you kidding me? go. right on time. right now, over 20,000 trains are running reliably. we call that predictable. thrillingly predictable.
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i firmly believe that support that i keep sports and politics separate. i'm a head coach. i'm not a politician, an activist or an expert. on societal issues. >> st. louis ram's head coach jeff fisher, it's clear, sports and politics should be treated like church and state. that may be because he's aware of the backlash that can come from mixing the two. since five rams players took the field last sunday making the
hands up gesture, the shooting of unarmed michael brown by police officer darren wilson. there's been a stinging rebuttal from the st. louis police association, the union that represents the city's officers. to them, the hands up was an affront that calls for the players to be disciplined. >> the nfl refused to discipline the rams and at least one player rams tight end jared cook says player who is have been threatening is not backing down. profootball talk coach said even though rams have been criticized and received threats that he absolutely repeat the hands up, don't shoot jes tur. it brings focus to this weekend in washington, d.c. who everyone apparently forgot, took the field during a pre-season game back in august making the hands up, don't shoot gesture. this sunday, being the first week of games since the decision
in the eric garner grand jury was announced, i'm anxious to see what happens. the way this now iconic protest moment did in mexico city did when john carlos and tommy smith raise their fists in the air as the star spangled banner played at the 1968 summer olympics. there were those who viewed smith and carlos with similar disdain. we know at the time famed sports caster brett musburger said "smith and carlos look like a couple of black-skinned storm troopers." joini ining me now is former olc athlete dr. john carlos. mr. carlos, i want to hear your reaction to the backlash that those rams players have faced this week. >> well, it's relative to 68. backlash is because you did
something that was necessary to do that the general public might not have been ready for: when i sit and look at the plays for a while, st. louis and all of those players in bas ket ball and feel so far in dealing with these issues, it refleblgts on john carlos back 46 years ago. i believe what you've seen today is just that. people around the world now are saying enough is enough. that's basically what the rams were saying. that's basically what the clippers were saying relative to their former owner. the atrocities have been taking place. they're not just merely thinking about themselves as much as they're thinking about their kids, their wives, their brothers, their mothers and fathers. >> there's a specific power here to an athlete able to kind of
seize the moment there a way. when you did what you did in 1968, the backlash was fierce. at the time, it wasn't particularly celebrated across the spectrum at all. we didn't have the media that we have now. there was no way to express this about what took place in mexico city. >> do you think that athletes have more than just the freedom or license to express themselves, but have some kind of affirmty to mix what they do. there's some kind of responsibility on them to have the platform they do to speak out. >> i don't think they precluded from the first amendment. the athletes, that's not just paint on the wall.
they have part of their society and concerns and emotions that's taking place in and around their environments. >> recently, charles barkley is a prominent talking end analyst and basketball player, has had a lot to say about the fall from ferguson. i want to play one clip about what he had to say from their reaction and here's mr. barkley. >> there is profiling. take a look at racial profiling. but the truth of the matter is a lot of blacks in some of these neighborhoods kmiting crimes. we ask the cops to come in and clean it up. bh when something goes wrong, wed turn on them. that's completely unfair. we don't hold each other accountable. we don't demand respect and higher standards from each other. >> your reaction to that, mr. carlos? >> first of all, i would have to realize that the police department is trained to protect
and serve. within that protection and serving, they have these police come out to be very aggressive. not all police. we have many good cops throughout this country. but we have some that are overzealous. they're training the police to come out and be aggressive when they're making charges against these individuals. who's training the general public in terms of how we're supposed to respond to police when they come to you in a very aggressive manner. when they come to you with more aggressive police. i remember being a kid down the streets in new york, we used to have beat cops. we had respect and admiration for them and they showed respect and admiration for people in the city. so once we get back to those grounds, we might have some peace and understanding. but until that time when they keep just having these grand juries and always turning up in a negative sense to defend these individuals during these atrocities, the people don't have unrest until the laws are changed.
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five, four, three, two, one. and liftoff at dawn. the dawn of orion and the era of american space exploration. >> the next few generations, there will be americans on mars. a test flight of the orion deep space capsule. it traveled more than 3600 miles above the earth, 15 times parteder than the international space station, further from our planet than any spacecraft designed for humans has gone in more than 40 years. orion was launched from florida this morning, just after sunrise, one day after technical issues and high winds. the unmanned capsule made two
laps around the earth in what nasa leaders describe as a near-perfect mission. this is the first of two unmanned test flights for orion with a manned version in as soon as 2021. orion sent back striking images and successful test flight was celebrated as giving a much-needed boost to a space agency than has in recent years, had to grapple with tighter budgets and questions about its long term mission. while this was a banner day for nasa, critics say it's deeply flawed and that the technology being embraced today, the one to try to get to mars, is the result of a massive boondoggle engineered by a republican senator. we will talk to one of those critics next. i've been called a control freak...
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it's good to see you after the successful mission. it's hard to have a better day than today. >> we've kind of now done something for the first time for our generation. it's a good thing. >> officials with nasa and lockheed martin were thrilled and overwhelmed after today's successful test flight which nasa hopes to be able to take to mars within the next few decades. joining me now, lori garer.
lori, i know you have issues with the way. but i want to start with today, which did seem impressive. a good day. were there positives to come out of today? >> absolutely. absolutely. nasa and the lockheed team had what just a flawless flight and doing it at a time when there's a lot of politics in play. they should be proud. >> okay. so what's your critique here. i've tried to kind of immerse myself in what your problem is with the trajectory of it. what's your problem with the mars play now? >> i believe that we have humanity going to mars and nasa has long term goals of doing that. i think the characterization of
this is a massive leap and our first step is disingenuous. we have been and have for a long time, have had a series of successful rovers, we have an international space station where astronauts are living and working in order to better understand how to live and work in space. we are at least 20 years away from mars. we don't have the money or plans for transfer vehicles this vehicle can last only 21 days. we have robotic missions that have left the solar system. we have a robot almost to pluto. nasa is doing amazing things. this is a small piece of it. it was a piece that was put in
specifically after obama had cancelled it. i just don't believe it's the most valuable aspect of the many parts of nasa. >> so here's the short version, barack obama cancels a moon vision done out of alabama, which is where nas is has a big h head quarters. then there was rebellion by people who represent alabama and they basically found a way to get nasa to adopt a kind of policy which uses stuff that comes o of that same place, huntsvrksz ille, alabama. and you're basically saying this was reverse engineer around making sure that the technology and the jobs were low kated in huntsville? >> i would say broader than that, but that is a pretty
succinct way to say. is this the way 2 space program used to be? this isn't the way to best advance that. and i'm afraid we're setting ourselves up to say we're headed to mars when people find out that's 20 years and $500 billion if you go about it in this way. and i would hate for that to be the only symbol of nasz sa. >> did you say 20 years and how much money? >> the last estimates of human trips to mars are $500 billion. >> 500 billion dlar$500 billio,. >> correct. >>
. >> lori, thank you for your time. i really appreciate it. >> that is "all in" for this evening. >> good evening, chris. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy friday night. when people look back on the bill clinton years as a generally positive thing in our country? these are the annual job totals. george bush senior was before him. george bush, jr., was after him.