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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  January 9, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PST

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9/11 but its effect has been where just a few people can paralyze a country. we're in a new phase in the fight against terror. there will be a need for security changes. this attack was an assault on freedom everywhere. but we can't let it affect our way of life. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. >> in paris, a violent clash of humanity as police charge. [ multiple gunfire ] >> this is it "hardball" for friday, january 9th. ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. we're following the still breaking news from paris tonight where two separate hostage sieges ended today in death.
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but with one suspected terrorist still at large. it began early today when the two kouachi brothers believed responsible for wednesday's terror attack were spotted not far from charles de gaulle airport. after a firefight with police they took a hostage at a nearby printing business. just hours later in paris, a third gunman stormed a kosher supermarket and took several hostages. he's thought to be the same man who gund down the police officer yesterday. today we learned he does have ties to the kouachi brothers. both hostage situations ended around the same time late in the afternoon paris time. first, there was shots and explosions heard where the kouachi brothers were holed up. they were both killed in that fight. very soon after that police in paris stormed the supermarket.
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[ gunfire ] >> the terrorist gunman was killed in that incident as well. four hostages were also killed. television cameras captured several hostages fleeing from that market. a fourth suspect was named by france today, a woman tied to the supermarket attacker. she's still at large and police are actively looking for her. late today french prime minister francois hollandee addressed his country calling for unity. he said france must stand together against racism and anti-semitism. but there was a stark indication of how on edge the city feels tonight. for the first time since nazis occupied paris in world war ii the grand synagog wouldn't hold a shabot service this weekend. americans grieve with france and
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will fight with france to uphold our shared values. >> the streets of paris, the world has seen once again what terrorists stand for. they have nothing to offer but hatred and human suffering. and we stand for freedom and hope and the dignity of all human beings. that's what the city of paris represents to the world. and that spirit will endure forever. long after the scourge of terrorism is banished from this world. >> i'm joined by nbc's lester holt, and michael kay, international correspondent and former british air force officer. lester, you first, give us the story, the police story today, the ending of those two sieges with death. >> well we saw some dots connected here. let's go back to yesterday when we heard about a policewoman shot in a paris suburb. and the person had an automatic weapon a bullet-proof vest but police were saying no connection
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to the terror attack the day earlier. well, today they said there was a connection. that person amedy coulibaly, is the man they believe took the hostages at the market near where i am in eastern paris. he was -- and he admitted he talked to french media today on the phone during all this and admitted that he was part of this plot with the other two men, the brothers and that they had been in contact. his job was to take care of police. he said their job was to take care of "charlie hebdo." we saw that play out on this end. it started this morning with the hostage siege, the gunfight outside of paris near the airport. then we started hearing a wave of sirens across paris. we knew something was up and that's when we got word of a shooting here at the market just down the street from us. four hostages were killed. the early indications, they were shot by the terrorists not during that police raid which ultimately killed the shooter in this case. there were also some police
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officers, three of them wounded and two civilians as well. >> tell us what you can about this other suspect and terrorist, this woman on the loose. what do they make of her? she was involved with the kosher market there. she may have escaped in that crowd of people we saw rushing out in those pictures perhaps. >> her name is hayat boumediene. she was on a wanted, a be on the lookout poster that was put out earlier today along with amedy coulibaly coulibaly, the shooter in the market. it's not clear, but she is unaccounted for. there is some concern that they were together, and she was in the market and may have slipped out during the confusion as the hostages made their escape after the initial raid. it's not clear. there are pictures circulating in french media today of her at one point holding what looks like a cross bow. pictures of the two of them together, but she is considered an accomplice in the shooting of
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that policewoman a day earlier in south of paris. right now, still on edge a bit here. the sense of this being over to an extent but as long as she is out there, someone that's said to be armed and dangerous, officials remain very vigilant. >> while the brothers were holding a hostage at the printing press, the younger brother, cherif called a french journalist and said he was sent by al qaeda in yemen and but refused to say if there were other people involved in the plot and he gave his own justification for his actions. let's listen. [ speaking in french.
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>> matt campbell there you have the somewhat questionable rationale of the justification of killing people in revenge, because of the way they described the prophet in their cartooning. but saying that they are somehow good people because they don't kill women, and they don't kill civilians. your assessment of that? >> well i think what is very striking about this situation and particularly the references to iraq and to syria, is that this is in some ways the nightmare scenario of the
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security forces in france and elsewhere. we have two young men, who are french citizens of algerian descent. at least one of wrom may have traveled to yemen to train, possibly both of them may have done that, and who have now come home and are either taking it upon themselves or in some form of loose coordination with groups elsewhere, carried out a quite deadly attack. so this is in effect, conflict in the middle east coming home to paris in a visceral way with quite tragic results throughout the week. >> well is the motive here as you hear it, vengeance for someone who offended the name of the prophet, or is it anger about the west's actions against the isis forces in iraq and in syria? which is it? >> i think it's very hard to unpick motives and none of us
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are inside the minds of these two young men. however, they did choose their target for a reason clearly. "charlie hebdo" has been a very provocative magazine. it has offended some muslim citizens of france and elsewhere with some of its cartoons. it's offended lots of other people christians jews and so on. it's an equal opportunity offender, but these two men did choose to attack "charlie hebdo" hebdo," they did not choose to attack bloomberg or "le monde." they did choose their target for a reason. but i think it's hard to separate that from the larger context in which they became radicalized. >> michael kay, wrap this up in this segment. talk about the atmosphere in paris, the reality that one of the suspects is believed to still be on the loose. and that we don't know what further is going to happen. we've discovered there is a connection among the three men. coulibaly of course was operating in some implicit
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fashion with the twot kouachi brothers, and now we have a fourth suspect. we don't know how wide it goes though. >> i want to focus, chris, on how this has actually galvanized the french public. we saw as light started to fade on the first day after the "charlie hebdo" attack we saw tens of thousands of the french public coming out in cities all over france. i think that was the perfect response. i'd also like to focus on the psychology of what happened today in terms of the way that the outcome played out. we've got to remember and there are a lot of conversations, i've been reporting on this since 6:00 this morning. conversations about how this might end and the options that these brothers had, whether it would be a shoot-out, or whether it would be sort of the self-sacrificing suicide bomber type m.o. that might have played out, because that gives amazing collateral and it gives the shock and awe that people like aqap and isis are after. but it didn't happen like that.
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it happened as a reaction to the on-scene commanders in both locations taking the decision and basically taking the actions that ended the siege. now, they did that with the safety of the hostage in mind. they did that with the safety of civilians at mind. but it was an action taken by them. psychologically, that's hugely important moving forward. >> does that mean that they broke the chance of these people? i mean historically, every time you set up a barricade situation, you're basically setting up a suicide situation. barricades fall. the people inside them usually die rather quickly. did you think they were aiming at a more sustained drama, that would have grabbed the headlines for days? >> we just know from the actions we've seen in syria through isis and aqap they go for the shock and awe aspect. they do that through the self-sacrificing mission. it's basically the thing that creates the headlines. i think what the french
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authorities did today, they prevented that ultimate shock and awe as the ultimate end to this sequence of events. i think psychologically that's a good thing. because that sends a message, the french do not tolerate this type of action and that's the message that needs to go out to potential extremists and islamic fundamentalists who are thinking about this. we've got to remember chris, that holistically contagion is an important aspect here. contagion at the tactical level, where people might think about doing this tomorrow or the next week or the next month, but also contagion of that ideology. and i think the way the french handled this and the way the authorities handle this was extremely calculated today. but i would also say as well france is very unique at the geo-political level. we've got to be cautious when we're drawing alignments in what that means in the threat to the u.s. and the uk. because france doesn't just have this threat from the iraq and syria.
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we've spoken about over a thousand islamic extremists that have made their way to syria. but we must not forget the historical aspects of france's involvement in north africa. north africa is predominantly muslim. you have boko haram in africa and these are off-shoots of aqap. so france have it from the east but also from the south. and the borders are very porous in france. so france is kind of this melting pot, if you like of what we saw today. >> let me get back to lester holt. my colleague. lester, is the big story tonight this one suspect still on the loose? is that where we are in terms of this narrative tonight? >> it is. it is the narrative tonight because even the president of france today reminded folks that this battle goes on that the risk is still high. i don't know if he was speaking in larger terms, or the fact this woman is still out there, but clearly all this has tapped into something this country is
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grappling with right now. the fact that these are all french young men who perpetrated this terror on such a large population here in france. people are walking about tonight. the police tape has come down. it all feels very normal, but it will take a while to get over this. this place was rattled. people are on edge. i ended up in the middle of police with guns who were responding to another false alarm that had everyone on edge today and talking to people and just we're not used to this. we don't know what to do. we're fearful. we don't know what's going to come next. and i think with this other suspect still out there, though not necessarily involved in what we saw today, we don't know that. there's still going to be some anxiety. >> so fortunate to have you over there, my friend. lester holt in paris. matt campbell they're all staying with us.
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we have this dramatic story. up next we'll find out who the terrorists were, who they're working with we hope to get that, and what's being done to thwart future attacks. all that plus what this attack means for europe politically. will france and other countries go hard right and clampdown on muslim immigrants? that's a possibility. already starting to happen. and the left versus the right, politics at home. the right continues to try to pin attacks like this on president obama. our coverage continues in just a minute. welcome to the most social car we've ever designed. the all-new nissan murano. nissan. innovation that excites.
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welcome back to "hardball." we're about to play you the voice of one of the heb do attackers who attacked the parisian magazine shortly before he was killed today in which he said al qaeda in the arabian peninsula is behind his attack. cherif kouachi, we are telling you that you are one of the prophet's defenders and i, cherif kouachi was sent by yemen's al qaeda. yes yes. so i went there and it was anwar al awlaki who financed me. and kouachi answered before he was killed. he said he was put there by the leader of al qaeda. and late today the al qaeda group itself took credit for the "charlie hebdo" massacre. the associated press reported a member of al qaeda's branch in
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yemen says the group directed attack against the magazine in paris as revenge for the honor of islam's prophet muhammad. but that claim could not be verified by nbc. anyway, the extent of coordination with al qaeda and the paris terrorists is still being investigated, but what does that tell us about the global terrorist threat right now? we're back with michael kay, and also with us john goel. >> your views as to how you put the puzzle together of a claim by cherif the younger of the two brothers involved in going after the magazine and they were killed today, both of them. they just claim to be part of al qaeda's operation, and also what we're hearing from al qaeda. your thoughts first, michael? >> i think, chris, the first thing we've got to do is lay out the context in terms of isis and al qaeda on the arabian
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peninsula. isis is all about establishing terrorist across the middle east and that has been headed up by the self-proclaimed caliph baghdadi. aqap isn't about territory. aqap is about ideology. and aqap's m.o. special mandate is to launch attacks on the west. now, we know through evidence over the past couple of months that isis and aqap are at serious odds. so what i find a little bit confusing here, chris, is you've got the kouachi brothers who are pledging this allegiance to aqap and saying they were sent by aqap. and then you have the other terrorist who launched the attack in central paris who is claiming it was on behalf of isis. so there's a disconnect there. we've got to be cautious about the links that we're drawing between what kouachi is saying
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and just how strong the links are between al awlaki who he is saying told him to launch the attack from 2011 and financed it and just how strong those links or the push was from aqap. i think the intelligence communities need a little time to breathe on this. the other thing, i spent time in baghdad, working with special forces hitting high value assets most nights and the intelligence we worked off, in terms of spider network, that takes, day, weeks, months years to coordinate. through electronic intelligence drones, pattern of life looking through cameras. but also human intelligence. so we have to be careful not to draw conclusions early and let the intelligence community do their job. but we know the kouachi brothers have been known for almost a decade and that started in 2005. so the intelligence community have got a head start on this.
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>> give us your sense about how the -- most of the people watching this program right now in the united states are trying to figure out what does this tell us about anger, about our role over there, in terms of fighting isis? what's this saying about the cultural war going on between western tolerance and deep religious sensitivity on the part of the islamist fundamentalists about their religion? how does it all fit together. ideology is a key component in the radicalization of individuals, especially in the case of the kouachi brothers. there are a number of different layers that do need investigation. the authorities in france will have to take their time in looking at it. the different dynamics at play are of course yemen, that has been mentioned, where it's believed at least one of the kouachi brothers had visited. interestingly enough in 2011 which is the same year that anwar al awlaki was killed in a drone strike. his last edict was for his
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followers to target all the publications that have printed controversial cartoons. the other dynamic is that cherif kouachi had been part of a network in 2004 to send people to go fight in the insurgency in iraq. that was connected to za cary who would take westerners and behead them on camera. all these elements different elements of ideology. but if we look at counterterrorism, we have to look at the ideas that indoctrinate young, impressionable people. arresting, capturing, killing terrorists is not enough. unfortunately europe hasn't dealt with that aspect as yet. >> is there any way to determine what with the triggers are? what's at stake? was it placing all of our troops in the holy land of mecca during the first iraq war, what was called the gulf war? was that what triggered al qaeda into action?
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how do we look -- or is it just a long thing that was building up over years? is there any steps that can be taken or not taken to ameliorate this hatred, or is it just something we have to live with? >> well, people will talk about foreign policy as being a trigger, but i would respectfully disagree with that. because foreign policy can make you angry, but to do things like kill innocent people like journalists, there has toon ab ideological narrative that influences that thinking. for example, they also shot dead a policeman on the ground. he was also a muslim policeman. groups like isis have openly talked about that it's legitimate to rape women. that's an ideological dynamic, very little to do with foreign policy. the west has also we shouldn't forget intervened in conflict that involved muslims like in bosnia and kosovo. they also wanted to declare the
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genocide in darfur but it was prevented by countries in the arab world. so foreign policy is often used as an excuse but it's always the ideology that influences, indoctrinates and galvanizes these young people. there's never enough investigation as to the limitations of that ideology and the false promises that are made. >> well said. thank you very much. coming up we'll get back to paris where where the french president has called for unity. but the terror attacks in paris could push that country further to the right, especially on the issues of immigration. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
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country, calling for calm. he said quote, we have to be vigilant against anti-sem thimp and anti-islamism. we have to stay united. the terror attacks have enflamed anti-muslim and anti-immigration groups. the hard right have claimed vindication for the hardline immigration plgss, most notably in france where the attacks have embolden the right-wing led by la pen. she called for the death penalty to be instated and said that islamists have declared war on france. her dep-- that's pretty strong. it sounds like here. joining me now from paris is msnbc analyst christopher dickey who is with "the daily beast."
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and here in washington -- actually bbc correspondent kim gattis. i want to start with christopher dickey over there. we have a poll out that showed of all the countries in western europe that france is the most tolerant accepting of its immigrant arab population. and yet there's talk by the national front that they think they can exploit this issue. >> well i think that they do think they can exploit this issue ask they've been pretty successful with it before. although frankly you have to say that marie le pen has a much more moderated if not moderate view of these things. there are arabs, token though they may be in the national front party and she doesn't come out with the kind of obvious race-baiting remarks that her father did when he was running the party. she's tried to move the party a little bit toward the center because she really thinks she has a shot at the presidency
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intya couple of years, and ask that may be the case. but i think the thing to watch is the broader european context and the argument to watch is very particularly europe and i think it could right over the heads of a lot of americans when they hear it. and that is the line that's taken, for instance in the netherlands and germany and some other places where they say, we can't have muslims in europe because muslims, all muslims apparently, are intolerant. and we live in a tolerant society. and we cannot tolerate intolerance. i know that sounds kind of twisted, but that's the kind of argument people use in the netherlands to disguise what really is basically racism. we don't like these people because they're brown, they speak with an accent and come from other countries, it's because they're intolerant. that plays right into that argument. >> i want to go back to this. it's a logical issue as well as a knowledge issue. you know the jewish people in
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israel live right next door to palestinians who don't like them. we know that. of course they don't like them don't want them to be there. but the percentage of the people who are violent and believe in killing jews and actual do it is a small percentage but the israelis have to live with the fact that they're there. and in europe, even if it's a small percentage they have to live with them. so it comes back to numbers, what you're willing to put up with an occasional terrorist attack. >> you can't really get rid of thisem. people like marie le pen say, a lot of these people are french. they're french citizens. they're football players. they're police officers who get shot on the street trying to defend the people at "charlie hebdo," as happened the other day. and you've seen, there's a rift of course there is tension between the muslim population
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who are french citizens and france as a whole because of this deep sense of secular values that drive france. and it drives tension in the community because of those muslims within the community who feel they're being discriminated against. they want to wear their signs openly. that's what is driving the tension. that's why you see this rift that is possibly going to be exploited by people like marie le pen. but you're also seeing a backlash against marie le pen with the hash tag, i am ahmed, in honor of the police officer who died on the street. and the french president with his call for a march on sunday bringing together all political parties except the national front of marie le pen, bringing together all communities is very clearly trying to say that he is not going to allow this incident to be used to demonize france's
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muslims. >> what is the policy prescription of le pen? is it simply a restoration of capital punishment? >> well, that was what she said. because she thinks when there's an atrocity like this there ought to be some means of punishing people, to the utmost degree and also because when you put people in jail in this country, like in most countries, even if you give them life in prison, often they can get out in 20 years, and she doesn't think that should happen. and she knows a lot of french people don't think that should happen. it has to be said the way capital punishment is carried out here in france especially in these kinds of incidents, it's almost always the same. you can go back 25 30 years, every time there's a hostage siege involving somebody who can be identified as a terrorist, they almost always wind up dead.
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you know i predicted this morning that they would wind up dead at the end of this incident and of course they did. even though you would have thought that the french intelligence would have wanted to question them. >> wow. interesting cultural insight. thank you christopher dickey. no, it is it's fascinating. it's like divorce italian-style. thank you very much for that. i like it when people are punchy like this and get to the point. thank you, kim gattis as well. much more from paris coming up as police search for the last suspect, a woman who is on the run in france as we speak tonight. and later the political battle here at home in the aftermath of the attacks, there always is one. and a predictable assault by the right on the president. he is of course guilty of all things that are bad. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. well, viagra helps guys with ed get and keep an erection. and remember, you only take it when you need it. ask your doctor if your heart
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welcome back to "hardball." it was a violent end to two
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simultaneous terrorist standoffs today in paris. three suspect terrorists were dead. in fact, are dead now. one is still on the run. a fourth. and that is just catching up right now. it began around 8:30 this morning local time in paris, when the two suspected gunmen from the "charlie hebdo" massacre, the kouachi brothers we know them to be took a hostage in a print shop outside the city as they were cornered by police. we're looking at pictures of them there. at 12:30 local time we got reports that an associate of the two brothers took hostages in a market in paris. threatened to kill them unless ples let the kouachi brothers go. so he was working with them even though they weren't coordinating at the moment. these standoffs lasted for hours. as night began to fall the raids began. this is the scene of the first police raid on the kouachi brothers. both brothers were killed of course. the hostage is freed. and this is a video of the
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dramatic siege, on the associate in paris at the jewish kosher shop. four hostages there were killed in that siege along with the gunman. you know we're joined by steve clemens. you know this is television the ability to see these things in action. watching the one at the kosher market. you see people racing out the door. you see what looked fb the gunman himself racing toward the police in an almost suicidal fashion, all living color. >> everything that happens is on social media. people reporting it. you may remember in the vietnam war, that the images of vietnam changed america. now the vietnam war, that kind of image it's around us every day. so there's been a desensization in certain ways. it's dramatic but we're getting
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used to it. >> you think big about these things and we all try to the implications of people who live in a country but feel themselves as aliens. it's the way their treated, the way their language and religion are different but who act as enemies of the state. whereas in this country, we have the odd situation of people who are not documented who feel very american, a lot of them from latin america. in that case people who were born in the country, who don't like this. >> look, there are a lot of problems in america, but one of the things we do get right and we should be prout of is the way we asimulate different cultures. you go to los angeles and you look at cultures from around the world that make it there, that all around the united states. it's not a perfect story, but when you go to france you go to germany, you go to other places england, they have had a much more difficult way of bringing people in. >> that because of colonialism? that their history has been we they, the arabs come to europe but they're still arabs because they've always been them to us.
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>> i'll say what i said throughout this. when your economy is growing, tolerance is much easier to achieve. and understanding -- >> that's pretty rare though. >> but the economy in france is flat. and i think that's part of the problem. il tell you the other thing. people have been talking about the five million or so muslims in france as being a problem. france needs to find a way for the five million muslims to be an opportunity, a strength something they're proud of. >> a friend of mine joins us, who is an american cartoonist living in paris. tell us about your view because the polling we had shows that of all the countries in western europe, that the french are the most accommodating of their islamic population that 72%, according to polling over there, are favorable in their attitude towards the muslim population of their country. your views, what do you sense? >> i would agree with that.
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from the friends that i have here that i've spoken to their reaction to this thing has actually given me heart, some hope that there can be some tolerance and understanding between these groups. this hit me really hard because i am an artist and a cartoonist. and the attack on the freedom of speech and the freedom of thought was so brutal that it was a shock all the way through my system. but at the same time when i spoke to my french friends about it, they were in terrible pain. but the first thing they said were, these were not muslims. these were radicals. they were terrorists. and to a person every one that i know here the artists and the writers and the other people my friends who are french have this open-hearted attitude towards it. and as an american i find that very, very refreshing, honestly.
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>> good to hear that. "time" magazine reported -- vivian, we're talking about the reaction people have in the streets of paris. do they dislike muslims more? do they try to understand that these are terrorists basically criminals, killers? that could come from any society. your thoughts? >> you know, this is obviously a big complicated complex society. each neighborhood is very different in character and ethnic makeup and so on. so it's very hard to generalize. but, yes, of course you know by and large, the french understand that this is a very tiny minority among five million muslims in france most of whom have been born and raised in this country. but i think there's something else to be said about all of this and i just don't know how
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the government is going to solve this one, which is that basically beyond the question of integration, the assimilation the economy and so on there's a denialism among a certain segment of muslim french raised kids that just doesn't seem to be going away. you know in other countries, it might be kind of just bad kids. here they're bad, violent kids. >> chris, you're like me an american, lu living over there. i know when you go to certain places in paris and you see lots of arab guys walking around selling what looks to be looted perfume boxes and everybody's selling you perfume off a truck somewhere. are these people just desperate for any kind of employment? what leads people to that sort of uniform way of making a buck? >> well i don't know, but i
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know what you're talking about. the flea market you go and you're overwhelmed with people selling iphones and you know those guys don't work for apple. but i think that there has been for a long time a sort of cash black economy that thrives in sub cultures in -- i think all throughout europe. i don't think it's unique to paris or to this -- that particular culture. i think it could be you know it's happening in kosovo. it's happening in parts of italy. it's just a kind of a cash, stuff that falls off the back of the truck economy. >> that's what it looks like to me. hey, chris, thank you for joining us. >> i don't know that that's going to just go away. >> chris, send me your latest cartoon, send me anything you do. we'll put it on the show next week. i don't know many cartoonists
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living in paris. anyway, thank you. and vivian, thank you for your wonderful talk tonight. up next the political reaction at home you can predict it. they're blaming it on president obama. somehow he's related to this whole thing in a terrible bad way. i know i minimized it because it's a joke. we'll be right back. ♪ with the incredible fuel efficiency of 38 miles-per-gallon highway you can feel like royalty in the nissan altima. now, get great offers on the 38 mpg highway nissan altima. nissan innovation that excites.
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we're back. and finishing up tonight on this amazing night of violence in paris -- by the way, in the wake of the paris attacks, we're seeing some right here in america trying to score some political points against who else? the president. here's senator lindsey graham. it's because of the way he's been talking lately.
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here he is, lindsey. >> i think he believes that strength is offensive. president obama's policies are making us very much less safe here at home. when he left iraq, he kid e did so based on a campaign promise. he's trying to close getmo based on a campaign promise. our intelligence-gathering abilities have been compromised. these policies by president obama being soft and weak and indecisive are coming home to haunt us. it's just a matter of time that we're going to get hit here hat e atif someone doesn't act soon. gentlemen, why does lindsey graham who won his primary gebs against four right wingerings, what is all of this macho, crazy talk about the president somehow
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being weak? i understand how the president made mistakes. drawing red lines he doesn't intend to enforce. those things are mistakes and its's wrong. >> you've hit on a key distinction. it's not that you're saying he's wrong. i think the policies are better if you do a, b and c. he's saying he's soft. he's saying he doesn't have the fort tud to fortitude to go against the material rigss. it's something they've had on him from the beginning. because he's maybe prof southerly e prof southerly yal. it works to a certain extent in that it creates a debate that's a false debate. and they're going to try to you know, set up the democrats to go back to the democrats of con jeb congenital, weak and soft. >> i think this president is a dove. a dove.
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meaning we don't want to go to stupid wars anymore. war is not our number one solution to all problems. i think this is the jimmy carter of the past. he wanted to take pride, k3e79 for except for desert one with nobody getting killed on his watch. that's pacifism. >> yeah he's certainly no pacifism. if you talk to anyone on the 4re69 left, you're going to get a lot of complaints about the drone strikes and yemen and pakistan. you're going to hear a lot of complaints about that. and, no, he's no dove at all. lindsey graham is running for president. >> that's his buddy. here's former new york mayor rudy rudy giolianni on mosques. >> what's your position on mosques right now? >> well i think, for example,
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mayor deblasio taking the police out of new york is one of the more i recall irrational acts that a mayor could perform. >> it's not racially profiling. it's logical deduction. logical reasoning. it's what we were taught to do in school if you ever took a course on philosophy or on analysis. >> so he's going back to a school philosophy about logic. you go where the money is, i guess. could you imagine if a democratic mayor built his world trade towers after that?
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>> what about the mosque? he's right about jersey if blind sheik who basically directed the attack -- the first attack on the world trade center. that was driven out of a mossing. >> but the attacks we saw in paris this week were not hatched out of any mosque. and what people said so far is that neither one of these two guys were particularly religious, the brothers at least. listen, there has to fwbe other ways to target cells and suspects without saying we're going to spy on mosque temples or churches. >> thank you, mike tomaski and david corn. back with more after this. fact. fast-acting advil is designed with an ultra-thin coating and fast absorbing advil ion core technology stopping headaches and other tough pain.
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that's "hardball" for this friday. our coverage continues right now on "all in" with chris hayes. >> tonight on "all in". french police and two separate standoffs in a hail of bull ets. three gunmen are dead, as are several hostages. tonight, how it all went down. the hunt for a suspect who appears to escape and what we now know about the possible al-qaida ties of the charlie charlie ebdo killers. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a suspected is still on the loose tonight after two separate hostag