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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  January 9, 2015 5:00pm-6:01pm PST

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that's "hardball" for this friday. our coverage continues right now on "all in" with chris hayes. >> tonight on "all in". french police and two separate standoffs in a hail of bull ets. three gunmen are dead, as are several hostages. tonight, how it all went down. the hunt for a suspect who appears to escape and what we now know about the possible al-qaida ties of the charlie charlie ebdo killers. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. a suspected is still on the loose tonight after two separate hostage situations in france
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came to a deadly and almost simultaneously deadly end this afternoon. dramatic images in eastern paris where the suspected of a policewoman yesterday kaled four people and took 15 others hostages. his alleged acome police and parter in seen here is still on the loose tonight. two brothers suspected of attacking charlie ebdoe on wednesday and confronted by police 25 miles northeast in paris. >> seen about five hours ago, the two suspects the kouchie brothers were chased to a small printing area just a few hundred yards from here. >> today's events unfolded in france and across the globe. the kouchie brothers flee the
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town exchanging fire with police. they run into a printing facility. they take one hostage. a convoy of policemen move in special forces and military kopters hover. the town goes into lock down. >> there are two schools in the area where more than a thousand people are locked in. some of the younger peoples, the teachers are singing them nursery rhymes trying to calm them double. >> he feely armed officers guard the roads. meanwhile, in paris, news of another hostage situation. at a kosher grocery store in the eastern part of the city. >> in the last hour another gunman possibly the man who shot a policewoman dead yesterday has taken more hostages. >> police gather. >> so the last few minutes, we've had emergency vehicles rushing up and down this road to the scene of this latest hosage
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taking. >> within the hour french police releeszed the name and the picture of a suspect. >> french police, 32 years old. in connection with the shooting of the police yesterday, that is the man, i believe, who was here. >> for the next several hours, the two hostage situations miles apart, play out in parallel. the french station, bfmtv reportedly speaks with both sheriff kouchie and abali. bfm reporter reaches kouachi by phone and confirms he had been in yemen.
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>> later, he calls into the station and says he is working in concert with the brothers. [ speaking foreign language ] negotiations prove to be unsuccessful. brothers tell authorities they are ready to die as martyrs. the authorities move in. >> smoke is rising from the industrial area. there is a helicopter overhead now. it looks like the siege is coming to the heldicopter just going over my head now.
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it looks like this scene is coming to a rapid end. >> they are both killd. their hostage is freed. minutes later, security forces mooif move in on the grocery store where similar hostages are being held. >> there is, from what i can see, a rush of officers a rush of individuals in armored gear going into this building and this is the second location here now at 10 minutes behind what we saw with the flash grenades fra the other side. >> in total, 15 hostages were freed from the store. >> we saw people being else korted by police officials -- police personnel. >> several hostages are confirmed dead and police confirm coulaba lurks i is dead. >> franch president addresses the nation calling for individual lens in the face of terrorism. it is our best weapon.
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we can fight against anything that could divide us. joining me now from north of paris, latest is nbc news chief correspondent, bill neally. bill do we know anything about her whereabouts and the status of threat? >> yeah that's right, the sieges are over, but the crisis is not. those three gunmen are dead. their accomplice a female terrorist is on the run. 26 years old, the police i shall shoed a photograph of her earlier today and said that she is potentially armed and dangerous. there is no question that she was part of this cell. for example, the paris prosecutor tonight, the man who is in charge of all french antiterrorists operations gave a news conference in which he said that more than 500 phone calls had been intercepted between her
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and the kouachi brothers or, indeed, one of their wives. so these two groups who were involved in the two sieges were clearly linked and clearly one cell. and they have created mayhem across pa riszris in the last 48 hours. 23 people are dead at the end of these 48 hours. just a minute-by-minute blow account of these two procedures. he said in detail gave details of the arsenal of weapons that these men had. it wasn't just the klashnikovs we saw them. they had grenades ammunition
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and a rocket-propelled grenade. they said that the supermarket killer had actually cased the jewish kosher supermarket a week ago. that this had been long-planned. and we heard, also from a man u one of the family, who runs that supermarket. he said he saw this man in the supermarket a week ago and thought how odd. he isn't one of our usual customers. he looks completely out of place. but the man loeft andeft and he thought no more about it. so the prosecutor the police and intelligence agencies still trying to piece together the pieces of this jigsaw. and a lot of questions remain unanswered. as i said, the sieges are over. the skrie sis isn't. there's a woman on the loose. are there more people lone wolves, perhaps, planning attacks. are there sleeper cells that
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will be motivated by these events. so the crisis is far from over and the french president insisting that france remains on high alert. >> bill neally has been doing phenomenal work all day. thank you, bill, i really appreciate it. all right. reported member of al-qaida in the arabian principle now claims the group was responsible for the charlie ebdo attack. and earlier today, a source told the intercept that france comes thish third on the target list. joining me now, jeremy stagel. i don't think i've ever -- it's been a while since i've seen a headline that al-qaida source says x. you've commutenicated with an al-qaida source? >> yes, this just didn't happen out of the blue. this is a source that has given me reliable information in the past.
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and i want to just make one thing clear at the out set. in official responsibility has not yet happened. one of the most senior clerics released an audio recording today where he praised the attacks and defended the attacks where he stopped short of taking responsibility. later, they releeszed eded eded eded eded eded images of him in yemen. so what i'm reporting is that a source in the al-qaida arabian peninsula is that yes, this was our operation. we directed this. we did it to defend the reputation and the honor of the prophet, muhammad and that the attacks are going to continue elsewhere. there's a really chilling line
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out there that says they have the right to print their cartoons. we have the right -- they have the right to print their magazines, we have the right to unload the bullets from our magazines. >> packblack in june, to2010 when the magazine first was published, one of the main focuses of that issue was talking about parodying cartoonists who depict depicted the prophet muhammad in the wrong way. ollie north had to assist in sending her underground toand changing her name. >> in fact a recent "inspire" includes molly who is still on that list. >> right. and the most recently inspired was put online in december. and it reupped this threat that
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we're going to go after people who draw these kinds of cartoons cartoons. there's repeating themes going on here, too. the islamic state can use this to raise funds for ierteither of those groups. there is increasing evidence though, that at least one of these brothers was, in fact, in yemen. and there allegations that he met with the american-born cleric who was killed in a drone strike in september of 2011 which would have been soon after he met with one of these individuals who suspected of being a shooter in this crime. >> and, in fact the brother that called the french broadcaster today in that package that we had at the top, he specifically names him as first propagandas for al-qaida. and then according to u.s. counter terrorism officials, they say he then became an operational figure. >> we're talking about aqap would take people that they wanted to commit these kinds of
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attacks in the last 12 to sort of help them come up with a rationalization of why they should be doing this religiously. there's still a question of what to do of what his role was. he clearly was calling specifically for the assassination of people that did the kinds of work that the journalists at this publication in france were doing. >> let me also ask you, there's been a lot of focus, obviously, on the first attack of charlie ebdoe and, essentially, there was a prize out on their head, so to speak. have we seen these specific attack on jewish institutions before? obviously, they're raising in yemen, but have you seen that before? >> the only specific incident that i can recall is another failed plot where aqap was
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alleged to smuggle bombs as printer cartridges that were addressed to jewish community centers in united states and i believe in chicago, in one case. but the address wasn't current for the place and the plot was warded off. i don't have any inside information on that plot. that's the only time i can recall specific details being contributed to an aqap plot targeted this way. >> jeremy skahill with gist a tremendous reporting for the interseptember. thank you very much. really appreciate it. our nbc chief correspondent will be here with just who the terror suspecteds are in france and whether they had any connection to larger cells and networks. that's ahead. and the 45 highway mpg tdi clean diesel. and last but not least the high performance gti. looks like we're gonna need a bigger podium.
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more on today's events in france. there's a lot from governor
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chris christi and a possible indictment of general petreus. all of that is ahead. stay with us. with the incredible fuel efficiency of 38 miles-per-gallon highway you can feel like royalty in the nissan altima. now, get great offers on the 38 mpg highway nissan altima. nissan innovation that excites. does a freshly printed presentation fill you with optimism? then you might be gearcentric. right now, all printers are on sale. plus great deals on hp ink and toner. office depot & officemax. gear up for great. ugh... ...heartburn. did someone say burn? try alka seltzer reliefchews. they work just as fast and taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. mmm... amazing. yeah, i get that a lot. alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews.
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enjoy the relief. . as we have been reporting, three suspects were killed in france today while a female suspected remains at large. investigators are combing through evidence to understand relationships between them and the nature of their relationship to existing terror cells and networks. joining me now, richard engle. richard, what do we know about these three individuals who died today? their connections to each other and their paths of radicalization, as it were.
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>> well by this stage, we know quite a bit. particularly about the two brothers. they were well-known for quite a long time. cherif was originally arrested in france. he was trying to go to iraq to join up with the armu zuba apali group which, then was linked to al-qaida. it was one of the most brutal groups killing other sunnis who opposed him. he never made it to iraq. he was arrested spent time in prison and was originally sentenced to three years. but this was someone who had already been in and out of
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french jails. the two brothers were imgrant sons, first generation born in paris. their parents both died when they were young and they were raised in northern france in foster care. when they became adults, they moved to paris, had odd jobs. their lawyer said they would spend times using drugs, they were involved in petty crime until they found a cause in radical islam. then we don't hear much about the two brothers until 2010 when they are once again questioned and cherif is held for several months with an attempt to spring other terrorists from prison. and that's -- after that after
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2010 those two go dark and surveillance, which was supposed to be in place, eventually tapers off. it's expense i. it's time consuming. they haven't done anything for a long time and there were other priorities especially when isis came to the fore front and so many french nationals started coming back. when exactly, the two brothers met with the other group is unclear, according to the paris chief prosecutor. they probably met in prison and they had some mentors in common. so cherif's wife and hyat were in quite frequent telephone contact, according to the fransz chief prosz cue xx there were 500 phone calls between the two
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of them. and then according to both of them, they launched this plot together. >> rich aurd engle live in paris tonight. thank you, richard. really appreciate it. joining me now, msnbc terrorist analyst evan colvin. to pick up with richard left off. something strange in the claims of credit by these two men who were calling into the radiobroadcast. the kouachi brothers references alaki. he says we have al-qaida and the arabian peninsula that he's a member of or affiliate of. while he says he's a member of the islamic state, there is now a twitter war raging for credit on behalf of al-qaida. two groups that are essentially waging war against each other. >> look i think a lot of people that look at yemen, iraq and
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syria say all of these guys are jihadists. what's the big deal? the reality is that these guys hate've e hate each other trumpeting this attack. the person who recorded this audio recording just a few days ago was savagely attacked by isis on twitter. they said that he makes excessive statements that he's spiteful, he's got a big mouth. so there's no love lost here. and then it's very curious that if this is so well-coordinated, why is it that they're claiming on behalf of two groups. and it just doesn't make a lot of sense. if you look at this wholistically, it looks like you have a network of people that are drawn together by one major terrorist plot. >> who was in prison. they were plotting, apparently, to break him out. one of the kouachi brothers who
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were suspected to be part of that. >> right. this is part of a larger network of individuals who went to tunisia and assassinated a senior tunisia politician. now, that guy, right now, is in syria supposedly with isis. look, are they part of a network? broadly speaking, yes. but do you really think that this person who ended up in syria is well aware of what they're doing? no. and by the same corollary, it's not clear that everyone in the network in france knows exactly what they're up to. it could have been that he saw his friends, his asoes yats on the news and said now is the opportunity. >> although it seems that the french prosecutor had planned it and that koalabali had cased the kosher markt a week earlier. we also had complaints about some of the weapons that they had. i mean that's a fairly significant piece of equipment. we imagine there might be some other people su porting this
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other than the four identifying individuals. >> yeah the closest allegory to this the closest analogy is back in '96. they were individuals who received training and came back and they brought an rs e arsenal of weapons back with them. rpgs,arsenal of weapons in fraenls e france and then got irn volved in a dramatic shootout. once again, these guys were extremely heavily armed. they've come to the attention of police and couldn't figure out why they couldn't come in sooun markets with rpg. if you had ties in a conference zone in syria, yemen, north africa, it's not that challenging to get your hands on illegal weapons. there is a black market for weapons across europe and because of the fact that the european union, i gist said earlier, i flew between zurich and france and back. no one ever checked my id.
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and that kind of gives you an idea that the border patrol around these areas are fairly course. >> after the charlie ebdo attack in france is it going to be considerably harder in france. we'll talk about that next. here we go, here we go here we go. ♪ fifty omaha set hut ♪ ♪ losing feeling in my toes ♪ ♪ nothing beats that new car smell ♪ ♪ chicken parm you taste so good ♪ ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ ♪ mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mm mmmmmm ♪ (son) oh no... can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything.
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the three suspects killed today were all muslims of african decent.
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kouachis from al gyre ya coalabali somewhere in west africa. it appears they were not always radical. france is home to more muslims than any other place in europe. and their place in society has been one of the number one controversies in conflict since long before the events in the past week. joining me now professor of politics of princeton university who has also directed the workshop on arab political development at the university. karibe, i'm struck by a few things. one, of course the frenchman of arab decent against the policeman who was murdered by these individuals. there was a taking up of this cause as a reputation of french muslims and french frenchmen and women of arabic decent. also this incredible story
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from the globe says they were so upset by the kouachi brothers behavior, they actually broke in to these two apartments only to have the police threaten their lives. it just shows in some ways how distant these two individuals were from even the community they lived in. >> absolutely. and you can also think that the copy editor of syrian decent. identity here is very complicated. many people of muslim heritage who are on the front lines of opposing islamism and terrorism and that is so critical to remember here. the possibility of rising that they'll face.
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many people are from algeria. and many oaf them were refugees from the 1990s violence in which 200,00 people were killed by fundamentalist terrorists. they feel that they've been warning of this issue for many years. i heard today a tv producer had to flee algeria because somebody she worked with was shot and is a paraplegic today. and i feel like that terrorism has followed me here. >> can you talk to me a little bit about what this will mean for french muslims in a political context? there's a lot of fear of reprisals, we've seen some graffiti on mosques, some scattered, what appear to be, hate crimes on them. what is your sense this will be in the coming days and weeks for french muslims. >> yeah i think, unforchew fatly, the coming days and weeks, the french muslim community is going to be the
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target of an increasing level of backlash, unfortunately. i think the sentiment is in france that you have this muslim underclass that is not assimilated, not integrated and that the only thing they perceive coming out of that community, unforchew faultily is this violence in terrorism. if we put this in context, the idea that the muslim community in france constitutes a significant tlaethreat is one that has grown in recent years. the far right has mobilized quite effectively on this platform that the muslim community in france is one that shouldn't be trusted, one that doesn't belong one that does not really french. so in many ways unforchew fatly, what we've seen this week is those islamic phobic perspectives in france. unfortunately, the muslim community is going to be on the receiving end of a lot of backlash.
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what one can hope for is a french people can come together along with the french community and basically unite in this fight against terrorism. >> yeah and that was one of the notes that was struck today, a very pointedly positioning himself against racism and against anti-semitism. i was reading quite a bit about the muslim population. and i say muslim here as a kind of term for people's traditions as it was to their practice, necessarily. the muslim population is actually quite secular. >> yes, indeed. and that's why i use the term muslim heritage. i don't want to presume what someone's believes may, in fact be.
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these i'vefive million people are distinct believers. the heritage is still very important to them. so i think we have to be very careful of generalizing and assuming what people's believes may be. but i think the critical thing to understand is that people face a dual challenge right now. i interviewed a woman today. she runs a community center in a very poor neighborhood of north africa and other african imgrantsimgrant immigrants live there in paris. she says, look, i feel trapped. islamism and terrorism, and, on the other hand, the french far right. and the challenge is to be on both sides at the same time. it's interesting. i was reading the algeria press today. a journalist wrote today, you know before we ask others to respect our religion, which, yes, of course we must do but before we do that we mist also look at ur own failings so we
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can break the cycle of hate. i heard a lot of things like that today. >> you used the word underclass. it's sort of important in large parts of europe as they have seen increasing levels of immigration. this kind of class dynamic has played out. there's a lot of racial prejudice. it's combined with the sort of a certain enlightenment. there's higher levels of incarceration and are poor right? >> that's correct, chris. i mean what you have in france and in europe more broadly, is that if you look at the muslim population, especially the muslim immigrant population that has been immigrating to europe the purpose of increasing levels of immigration for yourposing is more
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unskilled labor. as a result, what you've seen in europe, unlike the united states, is that the muslim population in europe is pretty much the underclass more ghettoized, more marginalized. and then you add the cultural dis district and that creates this sort of double whammy. that's probably one of the biggest distinguishing points between the american muslim community, if you may, and the yurd european community. the u.s. community was far better educate edd and more more political in u.s. social life. >> there's been an up tick in anti-semitic violence in recent years. tonight, they did not hold services for the first i'm since
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french president wasted no time in announcing toad's attack to a grocery store in paris where four hosages were killed as an aentsnti-semitic act. now, tonight, the grand synagogue did not hold services for the first time since world war ii when the nazis occupied france. this comes after a long year for french jews who have warned of an increasingly hostile atmosphere in france. joining me now, jonathan lawrence in foreign policy studies at the brookings institution in honor of the emancipation of europe's muslims. i know you've studied and written about the jewish community in france. it has to be a very, very dark and painful night for french jewry tonight.
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>> i think that's absolutely right. unfortunately, it's not the first this year and it's been several tragedies in a row starting in 2012's murder in taluse, 2014 in the month of may in brusbrussels and of course all three acts this week by frenchmen, it's a very depressing day for french jewry. >> obviously, the synagogue in paris tonight for the first time since world war ii, a lot of fears about the safety of french jews. what have you heard in the wake of this? >> well already, 2014 was a record year for french-jewish immigration to israel.
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approximately 7,000 french jews made it to israel this year. that is a number twice the previous year and hasn't been made in about a decade. so i don't think anybody doubts the government's resolve to try and protect them. i think when you have one incident after another and, again, with a body count of four or more dead jews today, it's just too depressing to go on. on the other hand france is the country that emancipated jews formally. they've had jewish-french prime ministers, writers, artists. there's no reason to end that rather grand tradition.
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while it's understandable that some may seek to move to israel for security's sake, we hope they will not be ethnically clenzed from france just because of these terrorists. >> are there any fairly robust jewish communities in france who, at different times have both been the target of ma jortarian prejudice and the right? or are they fairly alien nated as a factual political matter? >> like elsewhere, it's taken its toll on jewish-muslim relations in france. however, there is religious dialogue and that's something
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that the french government has encouraged for the last years or so. essentially forcing them to sit around the table. they do have a lot. when it comes to the expression of symbols in the public sphere they also share many traits. and when the french were debating the legislation that eventually banned head scarves for girls in k-12 jewish leaders were at the forefront in order to allow them to keep their head scarves. so there are commonalities. although these are extremely tieing times, it's worth noting that among the first people to pay their condolences of the
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offices of charlie hebdo, and french muslim leaders, that kind of solidarity will kind of continue continue. >> thank you very much. really appreciate it. there is some other news to tell you about tonight including some we gist learned before going on the air. prosecutors are recommending felony charges against david petreus. i'll tell you what those charges could be ahead. marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips.
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nchtsd according to abc news, christe met with investigators voluntarily after they offered him a chaps to provide his side of the story. interviewing christie was one of the final steps in the investigation which appears to be wrapping up. a christie spokesperson has confirmed to msnbc news and a spokesperson says christie has always maintained cooperation. the governor will be traveling to dallas again and he will be paying for his tickets and his sweater. this after ethical questions paid when jerry jones paid for last week's trip. also in the category of possible 2016 presidential contenders mitt romney is considering a third aterpt. romney conveyed this to a small group of donors in new york city who spoke with msnbc's casey hunt.
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also, today, and this might be the justice department and the f.b.i. held a press conference regarding an imp ro vised device that was housed outside the building in kroe kro springs this week. they released this sketch. a balding white male approximately 40 years old driving a white pick-up truck with an open or missing tailgate e gait or missing license plate. on that story, a correction. lags night on this program, outside the building that houses the building in colorado springs inadvertently showed this image briefly from another story we've been covering. that's of broken class e glass in a kabob shop in paris. showing that image was oval shrill a mistake. that's our bad and we admit the error.
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as for this take the breaking news continuing that prosecutors are recommending felony charges against david petreus. more on that story next. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees from the bank where no branches equals great rates. out of 42 vehicles... based on 6 different criteria... why did a panel of 11 automotive experts...
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"the fbi and justice department have recommended bringing charges for providing classified information to his former mistress while he was director of the c.i.a. a decision to actually bring felony charges lies with attorney genric holder. he's expected to make a decision by the end of last year but has not yet indicated what he will do. the recommendation of charmgs came after a justice department investigation into whether general petreus gave access to an e-mail account and other highly classified documents. joining me now, eli lake. e eli, my jaw hit the floor when i saw this report today. >> well it is kind of extraordinary, if this is all there is to it that the justice department and the f.b.i. would go to these lengths when in the
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past, the former c.i.a. director were basically slapped on the wrist for equivalent i guess, crimes against terms of classified information. >> we all have a situation where officials over the past few years have given journalists classified investigation routinely. almost as a matter of course. it would be striking if her e herp he were prosecuted for this. >> i agree with you. but david petreu zerks has been under review before about the c.i.a.'s attention and revision program. in my view as a journalist it's gotten way out of hand. there are far too many secrets the government protects and it spends way too many resources
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going after leakers. >> you will you raise a really important point about con sis testimony e ten sill. petreus has said that it was proper he be prosecuted. it dez seem from an evidentiary standpoint if this report bears out, that there is something of a smoking gun if the f.b.i. finds smoking documents from a strictly legal standpoint, that would probably be fairly open and shut. it's a question for prosecutorial discretion at that point. >> it's nuts if i said -- if all of this -- paula broadwell has a security clearance. she was already briefed in. this is not the kind of equivalent with chelsea manning or edward snowden or for that
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matter, the information that's been made open by some of the megahacks that have happen suns e such as the one in sencon computers in 200 i7 and 2008. unless there's another part that we don't know and suppose that they are going to charge him, will read the case of the government. but if this is all there is it seems like in this environment, that this would be a felony prosecution. >> well i guess the question also here is why do you read the tea leaves of this being leaked. this is in some ways trying to paint coburn into a corner. i say congratulations to the times for a great scoop. it's been out there. some members of congress have asked why the f.b.i. is taking so long. and, again, we don't know exactly what the government's case is. but if all tgs is somebody who
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had some security clearance wasn't clear to see the level of stuff that she's seeing okay, i understand that's bad, but give me a break. >> that is "all in" for this evening. good evening, rachel. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. on august 9, 1982 there was a terrorist attack in the heart of paris. it was in a neighborhood of paris called lemoret. the attack was out of blue. multiple attackers with no warning, armed with machine guns and grenades and they attacked a purely civilian target. they had a restaurant in broad daylight in the heart of a lunchtime rush. 1982. >> this was the deadliest anti-semitic attack since world war ii. gunmen sprayed customers in the