tv Lockup MSNBC March 7, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST
there's probably four or five names in the prison system that you just automatically hear of, spoke for. jimmy maxwell is one of them. >> after a daring prison escape, an infamous inmate is put into the jail. >> i was not going back. i promise you that. jimmy was not turning himself in. >> james steven maxwell, you
might say that he could be considered somewhat of a legend around here. >> i've taken down a few heavies over the years. >> but now he faces consequences that go well beyond what a judge could give him. >> just as cool as he is. >> that's the next jimmy maxwell. >> it's hard to explain a wasted life. he really felt like he was meant for more. i love you very much, brendan, and i'm very sorry that i wasn't there for you. >> now, "lockup" tells the story of a criminal legend, the family he left behind, and the devastating consequences of his decisions.
living in the heart of tornado alley, residents of tulsa, oklahoma, know to always be braced and ready for a destructive force of nature. it's also that way inside the walls of a half million square foot structure on the edge of downtown, the david l. moss criminal justice center, better known as the tulsa county jail. >> another day in paradise. >> most of the 1800 men and women incarcerated here have only been charged with crimes and are awaiting trial for the resolution of their cases. but newly arrived james maxwell is an exception. he's not only a convict, but is as familiar to staff and inmates here as the turbulent storms that proceed any twister. >> james steven maxwell, he could be considered somewhat of a legend around here. some of the inmates may look up to him. they give him a lot of respect.
he really upholds what they're going to call the outlaw dance with law enforcement. >> jimmy maxwell. jimmy's a legend in the department of corrections in oklahoma. he's a tough guy. he wouldn't want to be messed with, for sure. good guy. good heart. but if you crossed him, he's going to come, it's going to be strong. >> that man is 74-2 in the granite boxing ring in the penitentiary behind the fence. >> 74-2? >> 74-2 is his record. >> maxwell, who has spent most of his adult life behind bars, did not earn his reputation solely through fighting. >> he's got a history of getting out of lockup, escaping from several facilities in the state of oklahoma. during that time he got a heck of a reputation of not being able to be held. >> and just 14 hours earlier, maxwell fled an oklahoma state prison 60 miles outside of tulsa. he was apprehended on the outskirts of town, suffered a black eye and a shoulder injury in the process. >> due to his being an escape risk, we will be using
handcuffs, leg irons and a chain around his belly with a box and a padlock. >> we're going to have him black boxed. what this is is a system that was actually invented by inmates in prison, who have learned how to compromise the handcuff. what it does is covers the key holes. that good for you? more slack? >> a little bit more. >> he might be a high escape risk. that's no problem. he's not going to get out of our facility. there's no way he's going anywhere. >> maxwell will remain at tulsa county until he is tried for the escape attempt. >> i knew what the consequences could have been when i did it. they were worth it to me. i almost got away with it. i wasn't out very long. i got away for about a day. i just waited for it to be foggy and i took off. >> maxwell has a total of ten
convictions over the past 30 years. several of them for violent crimes like assault and battery with a dangerous weapon. at the time of his escape he was serving 25 years for possession of drugs with the intent to sell, assault and battery on a police officer. due to a span of good behavior, the amount of time left on his sentence, maxwell had been transferred to a minimum security prison, just three weeks before he decided to make a run for it. >> coming over a fence and i caught my pantleg in the top and i ended up face planting into the ground. and it knocked my shoulder out of the socket. i run for a mile and a half with my arm on my shoulder keeping it from flopping around because it was dislocated. i did not know what i was going to do. i was not going back. i promise you that. jimmy was not turning himself in. so i just laid down and just thought out how my arm goes together, and i had to lean forward and hook my hand and stretch it and just pray that it went back in, and it did.
so when it slid back in, i was a very happy man. >> according to police reports, maxwell made it to the tulsa home of his stepdaughter, stephanie. but a police officer was staking out the location by the time maxwell, starr, and another friend left in the friend's truck. >> next thing you know, he's like what the hell is behind us? i looked and there was about 30 cops, and feds. i'm just so mad and so upset that this has happened like this. because this was probably the only chance that i'd ever have. finally, when i got out of the truck, i'm not complying very well. i just turned around and took off. they shot me with a bean bag and tased me with a taser, and then they set the dog on me. when it was all said and done, you know, i'm like, i mean -- i'm like, man, you guys -- i don't know how you done it but you guys are good. i got to give you that.
if i'd have made it this time, i just was wanting to be somebody else. and just be a citizen. i figured that if i had stole a few years now, as much time as possible, who knows. if i could go out there and live a citizen's life, get one more chance at it, that if i did get caught later on down the line, i would still have been able to look back on my life and see that i had a little bit of life to live. that i'd lived a little bit of life. that was my plan. not much of a plan, obviously, but if they wouldn't have caught me at that moment in time, who knows, i might have been living in l.a. you know what i mean? with blond hair. you know. >> coming up -- >> who knows how many people have been here drawing on the cell, not knowing what's coming next. not knowing where their life is going. >> jimmy maxwell settles in. and just down the hall -- >> i never meant to hurt nobody in my life. >> another maxwell ponders the possibility of spending life in
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like many other urban jails, tulsa county invests in the training its staff to handle a variety of personalities, problems, and emergencies. >> let's go, let's go. >> let's go. >> let's go. >> the jail opened in 1999. but before that, officials had recognized the importance of design in the management of the facility. >> stand right outside your doors, gentlemen. >> everything in this facility was meant to affect the mental state. there are no -- there's no barbed wire. there's no gun tower. there's no viewpoint from outside that you can tell this is a jail. on the general population housing units, there's wooden doors. a lot of people, why wooden doors? if you've never been inside of a cell and heard the metal on
metal shut of a door, you don't understand. it's a mental thing. we have carpet on the floor. in the day room. we have tables that are movable. we have chairs that they can pick up and move and sweep under and take them to the room and put them at their desks. they have porcelain toilets, porcelain sinks. and we do that for a reason. if you affect the mind-set you change the behavior. this facility was not built for the inmates. this was built for the officers who have to work here. it's their day that's affected by the mood of the inmates, not the inmates. >> thank you. >> while tulsa county took strides to make general population housing units more livable, it's one-person segregation cells offer the bare minimum in accommodations. inmates assigned to these cells have either been cited for disciplinary problems, or are high security risks. having recently escaped an oklahoma state prison, jimmy maxwell falls into the latter category. >> how are you spending your time up here? >> planning my next move.
no, i'm just kidding. >> with ten felony convictions and a criminal record spanning 30 years, maxwell has seen the insides of cells. but in this one the prior occupant did what he could to make it feel like home. >> we've got, probably used to a lot bigger at home, but for this size of a cell it's not too bad. we've got a stereo underneath of it. that's a pretty good speakers. this is one almost any cell is going to look like when you get thrown into it. it's going to look like this. it's going to smell like this. it's going to be hot like this. it's going to be closed in and boxed in like this. and you're going to see stuff on the walls just like this. where some guy up here is marking down each and every day that he has left. he marks it down from 1350 to 1325. and then i imagine he pulled chains there and went to the penitentiary. who knows how many people been in here drawing on this cell. how many people been in here just bored to tears.
how many people have been here not knowing what's coming next. not knowing where their life is going. here's days in the county jail, days in seg. i mean, it's just days upon days in this little old crappy cell. this is just the county jail. when you go on past this, there is no end. i mean it's just a gray, concrete prison. we don't mark the days on the wall, we mark sets of push-ups and things like that. because the days are ridiculous. you don't mark down days, you mark off years at a time. >> maxwell had marked off half of his 25 year sentence. his escape is likely to add several more years back. but now, as he awaits a court hearing on the matter, his time at the tulsa county jail is made even more painful by the years another inmate might be facing. his son is in a cell just down the hall. and his future looks dim.
>> my son is brandon maxwell. he's 19. >> i'm charged with second degree murder. two theft of motor vehicles and leaving the scene of a fatality. i never meant to hurt nobody in my life. i'm more of the type of person that would help that person before i ever hurt him. >> though brandon maxwell entered a not guilty plea, he speaks openly about the horrifying event that led to his second degree murder charge. he says he was high on meth when he stole a van. according to police reports, the owner, a 45-year-old wife and mother, had rushed out of her house to stop him and was run over in the process. >> when it happened, i didn't know i killed anybody. i was getting in the van, backing up, and taking off. i'm going over the curb, that's what i thought it was i hit. i'm terribly sorry. terribly sorry. if i could go back, i would. i would take it all back.
i can't. think about how her family is never going to get to see her. thinking about how she'll never get to see her family. so if i have to go do life in prison, it makes it kind of easier to think about what i'm going through. >> the person that died in that, and their families, i pray for y'all, and i'm so sorry. and he is, too. and he is too. he is a good kid. and he's got a lot of potential. and just seeing all that go down the tubes like this, it's hard for me. it's hard for me. i haven't accepted the fact that he's going to be a convict just like me. i'm not ready to accept that. i mean, i just knew his life was -- i just didn't want him to have to suffer the things -- the life, you know, i didn't want him to have to be sitting here
like i am at this age. you know, it's hard to explain a wasted life. how you feel about it if you really -- it you don't -- if you really -- if you really felt like he was meant for more. i just hope for better. i just hope that he would have a good life. >> what would you say to your son right now? >> i'd tell him that i love you very much, brandon. and i'm very sorry. that i wasn't there for you. and i didn't lead a normal life, i didn't raise you like a normal dad. and that you're not in college right now. i would just tell him i love him and i'm sorry for my failings. not his.
>> coming up, jimmy maxwell discusses the sort of thing that made him an inmate legend. >> so he broke his legs, his arms, and his collar bone and fingers and everything else with a ball bat out in the yard out there. you know, and crippled him for life. years old. we both like to save money on car insurance. and we're both really good at teaching people a lesson. um, let's go. cool. sit down! alright. sorta you, isn't you. only esurance has coveragemyway. it helps make sure you only pay for what's right for you, not someone sorta like you. i think i blacked out from fear... did we ask him where mr. craig was? we did. esurance. backed by allstate. click or call.
more than 30,000 men and women are booked into the tulsa county jail every year. most leave within hours. but on any given day, there are about 1800 who reside here until their cases are resolved in court. many have prior stays at both the jail and in prison. few, though, have been as well-known throughout the inmate population as jimmy maxwell. >> there's probably four or five names in the prison system that you just automatically hear of because they're folklore. jimmy maxwell is one of them. he's a fighter, good fighter. i don't remember ever hearing him losing a fight. jimmy's no nonsense. we're all dealt dope in prison. business is business. if you didn't have his money,
when your money was due, you probably would get socked in the jaw or a ball bat to your head. >> he's notorious. that's all i can say. >> i've taken down a few heavies over the years. i haven't got a lot of tolerance for not paying me when i want -- when i'm supposed to be paid. >> it's the living, dope, cigarettes. that's just -- that's the -- that's the dollar in there. that's how we survive. >> but even in prison, maxwell says he did better than just survive. >> bought my wife a set of boobs from my drug-dealing activities. that was a mistake, by the way. you don't want to do that while you're in prison. kids. >> maxwell says his violence was steeped in a moral code. >> i don't pick on people. you know, i try to stand for what i believe is right. it's just like the time that i ran into a guy that raped my
wife's best friend. so i broke his legs, his arms and his collarbone and his fingers and everything else with a ball bat in the yard out there and crippled him for life. and i knew damn well he was regretting ever putting a hand -- you know, forcing that girl to do whatever he forced her to do. but you know what? it's what he had coming. and i'll stand by that. i'll just stand by that. >> were you charged with that? >> nope. not until now, probably. but i'm thinking that the statute of limitations in texas has got to be up by now. >> maxwell isn't laughing, however, when it comes to his 19-year-old son bronzen, whose troubles are getting worse. he was given a 10-year prison sentence for violating probation on a drug charge. but he also faces life in prison if he's found guilty in his upcoming trial for second degree murder. according to police, he ran over a woman whose van he was attempting to steal.
now seemingly following in his father's footsteps, brandon has just been moved into the segregation unit for fighting. it's not the first time he's had problems here. >> brandon has gotten into a number of disciplinary issues, problems. he's been put in seg a number of times for assault. and possession of contraband. >> i was protecting myself. i'm not a violent person at all, though. but i know how to survive. >> and word of the son of jimmy maxwell is already beginning to spread. >> his son brandon is just as cool as he is. >> that's going to be the next jimmy maxwell. >> jimmy maxwell says he has not seen his son in the last three years, since brandon was 16. >> he's about a quarter mile down the hallway. oddly enough, i feel a little closer to him. he's right down the street. >> want to see my dad, you know. i probably won't ever get to see him again. i might go to prison for a long time.
and he -- he's going to go to prison for a long time. and they're not going to let us be around each other. >> for now, the only way jimmy can see brandon is through a newspaper clipping about his current troubles. >> i don't actually have any other pictures of him, to be honest. that's the only picture i have of him right there, a mug shot. and it's not a very good mug shot, either. i mean, this is very sad. that's his picture, and i can see his eyes. i can see that red rim, and i can see that they're very sorrowful. >> sergeant collette supervises the segregation unit which currently houses both jimmy and brandon in different sections. he checks in with the enmates regularly, and knows jimmy from prior stays here. >> unfortunately, you know, you got to stay in here for awhile.
>> yeah, i'm aware of that. i cleaned up the house because i knew i was going to be here awhile. >> yeah? >> have you noticed? >> he asked me if we could move his son next to him in the same unit. i said unfortunately not. we can't. we have to keep that separate. family members and co-defendants, we have to accept them separated. but he understood. and he asked me to talk to the son. because his son was heading down the same road he was. >> all this trouble, he's facing some time, and he doesn't really know how to deal with this yet. i don't believe he's doing so well right now because he's struggling with his identity. my dad's son, i'm a convict, how am i going to live? have i got to live up to his reputation? have i got to make my own reputation? he's going through a lot of stuff right now. >> as parents you want your kids to always do better than you did. and maybe i can get him turned. go the other way. i don't know. you know my old amg adage. free your mind, or ass will
follow. maybe i can get him to go along with that program. >> you do pretty good. >> i try to. >> maxwell has come to see prison as a long tunnel. and says he prays that some day, brandon will reach the other end. >> you got to put one foot in front of the other. and he's got to just keep on going. and to the end of that tunnel. and not make it worse. because it's too easy to do. and if he gets caught up in trying to live a prison life, then he's going to be subject to all the stuff that happens when you do that. happened to me. i wouldn't know what i'm talking about if it didn't happen to me. >> coming up -- >> i'm here right now for traffic city warrants. i haven't paid any of them. i kept forgetting. like $19,000 worth or something like that. >> tulsa county plays host to another member of the maxwell clan. lieve the gap will close when healthcare gets simpler. when frustration and paperwork decrease.
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derailed saturday in northern ontario. no injuries reported but the third in northern ontario in less than a month. and a eight people injured after a garage collapsed in a sprik's day party. none of the injuries life threatening. now back to "lockup." due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. ♪ unlike many other large correctional facilities, the tulsa county jail was designed as a single-story structure with double-tiered cells. >> when we were designing this facility, we went to many facilities around the country. the elevated or the multi-storied buildings were cumbersome and hard to maneuver and it separated from the employees from each other. >> because the jail doesn't rise several stories high, it has a
large footprint. roughly the same size as ten football fields. among its unique features, are long, steadily ascending hallways that connect various housing units. >> the longest hallway is a quarter mile long in our facility. as you go up, it's elevated. >> each level corresponds with a specific housing unit so if there's ever a problem staff would immediately know which unit to alert. >> because it's so long, it's a quarter mile long, it helps going up, it helps us to see. we can have a visual on the inmates all the way down the hallway. >> the hallway has been traversed numerous times by inmates, including jimmy maxwell and his son, brandon maxwell. now a third member of the family will walk it, as well. jimmy's stepdaughter, stephanie starr, had already been charged and released on bond for aiding jimmy in his recent escape attempt. she pled not guilty and was awaiting trial when another problem brought her back to jail. unpaid tickets.
>> i'm here right now for my traffic and city warrants. i haven't paid any of them. kept forgetting. and, like, $19,000 worth or something like that. since 1996. >> but if starr is found guilty for aiding in jimmy's escape, she could face prison time. >> oh, yeah, the big escape. my family is my family. i love them to death. i'm loyal to mine. i ain't never going to turn my back on any -- any, whatever, you know what i mean? i'd do it again, you know what i mean, in a heartbeat. >> jimmy maxwell is unaware that his stepdaughter is now housed in the jail's female unit. in the mean time, he's freshened up his cell by cleaning off the graffiti. and found an old friend from prisons, will flowers, is in the segregation cell across the hall. maxwell has been trying to speech flowers sign language but with mixed results.
>> "y," "z." >> man, it's been 30 years since i've done any sign language. so i'm a little slow at it. i probably suck at it. >> he's killing me. i got to tell you, he's killing me. >> you slow down. >> you are killing me. >> flowers is currently charged with possession of a firearm by a felon. he's pled not guilty and is awaiting trial. but it was while serving time in prison that he got to know maxwell. the two can spend time together one hour per day. when they and other segregation inmates, are released into an enclosed rec area. >> i mean, it's, i want to say nice. you know what i mean. it's not like the park, i guarantee you. but it's nice to be out here. it's nice to have fresh air. it's nice to be out of that little old box of a cell. >> maxwell is still recovering
from a shoulder injury he suffered during his escape. >> looking good. that was the wrong thing to do. ooh! >> so for now, he'll have to settle for being a spectator during rec time. >> this is just like being all dressed up and nowhere to go. you know what i mean? i can't even throw the damn ball. >> jacob smith is more than 20 years younger than maxwell, but is already familiar with the legendary oklahoma inmate. >> i have been in here for 14 months and just in that 14 months, i've heard a lot of stories, a lot of stories about jimmy maxwell. everybody knows who jimmy maxwell is. in here in the system, you hear stories about people who were bad asses and build up a reputation for themselves. jimmy maxwell is one of those people. everybody knows stories about jimmy. some of the things that jimmy did on the yard. you know.
the people that jimmy represented. he's -- i guess in a way you can say he's kind of a legend throughout the penal system. >> at this stage of your life is that a good thing? >> it's a bad thing in the sense that i -- i mean, it's a good thing if you're going to spend the rest of your life in prison and going to be here and this is your home and this is where you're going to reside. but this is not what i really wanted to do with my life. i'm going to be honest with you, even having -- even having, you know, i mean, the reputation and people know you, i'd give it all up just to be a good father. >> have you talked to your boy? >> no. i'm starting to wonder -- they're probably not -- it's probably not going to happen. >> i had an opportunity to meet brandon back when he first came
here. and i never seen a kid so full of life. so full of joy when he talked about his dad. i think he's -- he really looks up to his dad. >> thanks for saying that, man. >> absolutely. >> i think i needed to hear that. >> absolutely. >> and i haven't really heard that before. >> brandon maxwell has been released from segregation and returned to a general population unit. as usual, it doesn't take long to meet others acquainted with his father, like david childers. >> his dad was a real good friend of mine. i met him in prison when i was 17. acts just like his dad. >> childers has a unique perspective when it comes to brandon following in his father's footsteps. >> i understand it. my first cell partner was my father. >> wow. i didn't know that. >> i talked to my dad about it.
and it hurts the father. to see his son follow in his footsteps. >> this is a form that the minister gave me, touches me in a way that i really don't like, if you know the truth. the title of it is walk a little plainer, daddy. walk a little plainer said a little boy so frail. i'm following in your foot steps and i don't want to fail. sometimes your steps are very plain. sometimes they are hard to see. so walk a little plainer, daddy, for you are leading me. some day when i'm grown up -- some day when i'm grown up you are like i want to be, then i'll have a little boy who will want to follow me. and i would want to lead him right and help him to be true, so walk a little plainer, daddy, for we must follow you. that's what you're supposed to do. you're supposed to walk a path
that your child can follow and be proud of and have a life and his child is supposed to be able to follow him from following you. he's following me, all right. but he's following me right to prison. and that's not -- that does not give my heart any joy. it does not give me any peace. i didn't walk very good for him. >> coming up -- >> what were you thinking? don't you think -- >> what do you mean what was i thinking? >> don't you think you're getting a little too old to be jumping fences and stuff? >> jimmy maxwell gets a visit from another of his children. ow. well, did you know words really can hurt you? what...? jesse don't go! jesse...no! i'm sorry daisy, but i'm a loner. and a loner gotta be alone. heee yawww!
its effects on society really came about because, not because i was selfish and wanted one for myself, which i did. its because i had, had a passion. my whole life i wanted to teach myself to build computers. i wanted to build these things for free. i just wanted to do it for the world and you know, when you want something, that's what you do the best. ♪ ♪ the 1800 men and women inside the walls of the tulsa county jail are all at turning points in their lives.
some await trial. while others serve short sentences for a variety of crimes. others are waiting for a jury to hand down a verdict or a judge to issue a sentence. as he approaches age 50, jimmy maxwell might be in the midst of a midlife crisis, re-evaluating what his reputation as one of oklahoma's most notorious inmates has done to him, and to his family. >> am i feeling desperate now? yes, i am. i have been spending time trying to get out of the mentality of accepting my life in prison, that now i find myself having to get into the mentality of accepting it. and it's a fight. i'm fighting it every step of the way. >> maxwell was about midway through a 25-year sentence for drug possession and assaulting a police officer when he escaped from prison. he's now at tulsa county jail until a judge decides how many more years might be added to that sentence.
meanwhile his 19-year-old son brandon awaits trial for second degree murder. >> i know when he was in school and he started having problems, it had a lot to do with me. not being there. >> i felt separated from my father. so i rebelled. you know what i mean? i made wrong choices. >> it doesn't help i'm as well-known as i am. and they tell stories. you know what i mean? and he gets this picture in his mind of his bad ass dad. >> maxwell's step-daughter, stephanie starr is in the jail as well. she was recently arrested for her failure to pay about $19,000 in traffic fines. she also faces charges of aiding her father's escape. >> you're getting released. >> i am? >> but today she's returning home. a friend has posted bond for her. >> somebody bonds me out? >> somebody posted it. >> if starr is found guilty of aiding maxwell, her freedom
could be short-lived. >> sign, third line down where it says inmate signature. for your property. behave and don't come back anymore? >> you say that to me all the time. >> yes. >> yes i'm going to behave. >> jimmy maxwell has seen a modest improvement in his life. he's been moved to a new cell and it's a little roomier than his old one. >> my buddy will is next door. now we can talk, and we can pass stuff back and forth pretty easy without having much fuss or muss. >> passing items between cells involves a technique known in many jails and prisons as fishing. but tulsa county inmates call it cadillacing. >> you got a newspaper over there? >> i got a puzzle to send you, bro. >> inmates tie objects to string and send them back and forth under cell doors. >> he made some good burritos last night and sent them to me. >> you can't cadillac a burrito. >> yes you can.
>> under the door? >> under the door. burrito comes in a plastic bag like this. okay, maybe he'll pay me two of them. slid underneath the door. hooked them on a string. i tied them, brought them over here. you can bring it back to life once you get it out under the door. tastes delicious. >> i had to smash the hell out of them, but you put them all back to shape. >> huh? >> i put them all back in shape? >> did you really? that's good because i was thinking i really -- >> give me the recipe, okay? >> huh? >> you got to give me the recipe. >> maxwell tries to keep his spirits up, but says thoughts of brandon's upcoming trial for second degree murder weigh heavily on him. he recently asked jail officials to allow him a brief visit with brandon. but as a segregation inmate and an escapee, maxwell is considered a security risk. >> i mean there is a real possibility that as bad as i don't want to think about it, it's -- we may never see each other again. >> once a week, however, maxwell
is is allowed to see other members of his family. his youngest daughter echo, along with her mother mary jo, have just arrived at the jail for a visit. mary jo and jimmy are divorced but maintain friendship. both women are here to get some questions answered about jimmy's recent escape attempt. >> he thought it was an opportunity for a lifetime. it will probably cost him the rest of his life. >> who are you here to say? >> james maxwell. >> visitation to j-2, inmate james maxwell for a visit please. james maxwell. >> all right. go ahead. j-2. >> are you thinking it's so stupid. i just can't understand his thought process. he's a grown man. i guess he knows what he's doing. or he thinks he does. >> he's a knuckle head. he always has been. >> while mary jo visits brandon,
echo goes to see her father. these visitations have been the routine since she was a little girl. >> i'm kind of used too it, him not being there, having to see him behind glass or having to go through security to be able to see him. my dad's been in here a long time. i hate it for him. you don't to want see anybody that you love locked up. but he wouldn't know how to act if he was out here anyway. my brother being locked up now bothers me a little more. just because he's my little brother. it's hard to know what i would say to my father, because i wouldn't want to hurt his feelings, but it's his fault. it's his fault that my little brother is here. >> hey, sweetie. >> hey. >> what are you doing? oh, you look so beautiful. >> thank you. you look handsome yourself.
>> you're my daughter, you have to say that. >> what were you thinking? don't you think you're -- >> what do you mean what i was thinking? >> don't you think you're a little too old to be jumping fences and stuff? >> sweetie, i mean i broke my shoulder in the process. i mean, i'm obviously getting too old to jump fences. i'm just so tired of doing time. you know that. i just wanted to be out there with you guys, and, you know, i just wanted to be free. you know that. i mean you know me, i'm just tired of it. i'm tired of being locked up. i'm tired of being in jail, and prison, and i don't know what else to say. i get discouraged and things don't work as fast as i want them too, or i got more time than i expected. or -- i don't know. i just don't want to be an old man getting out, and miss everything again, with everybody. again. you know what i mean?
i mean, i'm upset, don't get me wrong, that i got caught. i wanted to be at the lake this summer. you know what i mean? i wanted to be visiting y'all with blond hair. but -- but i'm -- i'm -- i might be able to get a chance to see brandon. and being able to do that, i and being able to do that, i mean, being here for him, being able to, you know -- being able to say some things for him that nobody else is going to say. i mean, to me, it's almost a fair trade. >> probably happened for some kind of reason, you know? >> yeah, because i should have never got caught that fast. that would have never happened without define intervention. i'm telling you that. >> i don't know what's going on. i don't know how come things are happening when it happens. for life of me i can't figure out how i got caught that fast. we all grow. we grow up. you know what i mean? coming up, jimmy maxwell
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we're going to go get jimmy maxwell. >> for security reasons, tulsa county jail detention officers never alert high risk inmates like jimmy maxwell as to when or why they're leaving their cells. >> he'll be cuffed up in a black box and be escorted down by us. >> where are we going? you going to take me out? >> yeah, we're going to take you out. >> take me out for burgers and fries? field trip. >> oh! hey, boy! >> hey. >> it's good to see you, son. it's going to be all right.
you know that, right? >> yeah. >> jimmy and his 19-year-old son brandon have not seen each other in three years. while jimmy says his legendary status is one of oklahoma's most feared inmates served him well in prison, it's cost him the ability to properly guide his son. but only now, with brandon facing prison himself, can jimmy offer some advice. >> no matter how it goes you're going to have time to do. >> i know. >> don't let this define you. don't let prison define you. there is people there -- if there is any light at the end of the tunnel it's so, so, so small that they just make the prison their world and their home. i did that. you get caught in to living in penitentiary. this is my home. this is where i live. when you stop caring. one day i was looking through my photo album and i have photos of
you and echo, and i flipped through there, and flipped through there, and as you got older, and you got older, and it was almost teenagers. i just realized that how much i'd let you down. and i mean, i spent all this time in here, trying to be -- look out for other people and look out for mine, and look out for, you know, fit in here, and penitentiary, penitentiary, penitentiary. you know. and it was -- you know i realized that it was you guys that needed me the most. and i let you down. and you know, man, i'm a dumb ass. and i've learned through the years, and the years that we wasted apart that there is a light, no matter how dim it may seem. it's hard to stay in the tunnel and watch for that light and go for that light.
it's much easier to not give a [ bleep ] i'm going to tell you this right now, i know you. and i can see the water in your eyes even when you're smiling, and i know how much pain and how much anguish you're going through right now. i don't want to see your whole life gone. if you get 20, 25, whatever, i'm going to call that a blessing. >> okay. >> if you get lucky like that, then you need to walk this walk, and walk straight out that door and not come back like this. over and over again. >> i don't want to get caught up in that neither. and that's not my plan. it never has been my plan. you know what i mean? yeah we all get discouraged and we all do things. we're human. man, we get discouraged. but we got to pull ourselves out of that. keep our eyes on that tunnel. on that life. >> as far as the expects, maybe that's just not what i was meant to do. god or whoever did not see fit for me to get away.
i am not upset with being caught. i mean -- well, that's not exactly true. i am a little upset about being caught. but to be honest, i'm glad i'm here for you right now. >> everything does happen for a reason. and it's obvious right now sitting where we're at that this all happened for a reason. we both needed this. i can't express to you how much we both needed this. >> as the visit draws to a close, the father and son have a final chance to be like other fathers and sons. >> you put a little weight on since the last time i saw you. >> that's ripples right there, bud. >> yeah, yeah. >> i think our time is about up, son.
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