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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 1, 2015 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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holding office possible. that's why i cannot give way to pessimism and dismay because every day i'm seeing results of people that fought before us and if we keep fighting progress is within reach. it's in our hands if we are mature enough to grasp it. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. have a great weekend. "hardball" starts right now. >> charges in baltimore. indictments in new jersey. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm steve karnky in for chris matthews. we'll get to the indictments in bridgegate scandal in new jersey for a moment but we begin with the stunning news from baltimore's top prosecutors that six police officers there have been charged in the death of
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freddie gray. marilyn mosby told reporters, quote, no one is above the law, and she said gray's death was the result of mistreatment he suffered by the officer. >> following transport from baker street mr. gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a ultof being handcuffed shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the bpd wagon. >> and the most serious charge second-degree murder, was filed against the driver of the police transport van. the other officers face charges ranging from involuntary manslaughter to assault, police misconduct and others. according to mosby the initial arrest of freddie gray was illegal, and officers repeatedly ignored gray's request for medical attention. mosby also had this message for the protesters who have taken to the streets since gray's death. >> to the people of baltimore and the demonstrators across america, i heard your call for no justice, no peace.
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your peace is sincerely needed as i work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man. to those that are angry, hurt or have their own experiences of injustice at hands of police officers, i urge you to channel the energy peacefully as we prosecute this case. >> reacting to the news today, baltimore mayor stephanie rawlings-blake said she was, quote, sickened and heartbroken and meanwhile, gloria darden the mother of freddie gray told buzzfeed i feel good because we got all six of them. she also spoke directly to her son, quote. you can rest freddie, you can rest. you can be in peace now. as marchers return to the streets of baltimore we're joined by nbc news' lester holt who is at city hall. lester, were you there earlier in the week and back there now in the wake of this stunning announcement today. what is the mood you're encountering tonight in baltimore? >> well on the streets, and the neighborhoods that we saw only a
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few nights ago rioting, there was actual celebrations. i encountered one mother who is going to take her kids to a class and instead she brought them to the street corn their was kind of the center of this celebration and said i wanted them to witness history and she was talking about it in such terms. she said you sound like you're almost describing a historic civil rights moment and that's what she said she believed it was, a moment when there was accountability for police something that she believes has been missing here for a long time. there have been protesters in the street again tonight, but again, a much more celebratory mood talking about a justice and, of course we're all reminded that this is only the beginning of the justice process. where this leads no one knows, but certainly there are a lot of folks in this town who didn't think it would stunning. i've used it my investment i don't know if the charges are so much stunning or the speed, the fact that the report was handed over by police only yesterday. i don't think anybody saw this coming immediately, but we now know that the prosecutor's office had essentially been
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doing their own concurrent investigation which brought them to these charges, steve. >> lefter the speed and also i think the content of the message from the prosecutor today. we had the quote there for you at top of the show but the idea you were talking about the protesters being so skeptical that any kind of charges were going to be filed and now here's the prosecutor speaking directly to them and saying i heard you, and now i'm acting. >> well i think one of the more remarkable things that stood out to me was the fact that she made note and filed charges around the fact that he shouldn't have been in the police van in the first place, that they had in her estimation they had no grounds to even arrest freddie gray so it begins right there. that sends a larger message because we have heard in communities like this complaints of police harassment. we know that there -- that there's data from around the country, that blacks are more likely to be arrested arrested at a higher rate than whites. this sends a message that may resonate well beyond baltimore,
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this notion that freddie gray was singled out simply because he made eye contact with a police officer and ran. the knife he had with him, which had been reported to be an ilpleel switchbladeil illegal switchblade, she says was not illegal so in her estimation he should not have even been placed under arrest. >> lester holt thank you very much. the state's attorney marilyn mosby said the officers, as lester was saying never had probable cause to arrest freddie gray in the first play. let's watch that. >> the knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under maryland law. these officers subsequently removed the knife and placed it on the sidewalk. mr. gray was then placed back down on his stomach at which time mr. gray began to flail his legs and scream as officer miller placed mr. gray in a restraining technique known as a leg lace. while officer nero physically held him down against his will
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until a bpd wagon arrived to transport mr. gray. lieutenant rice officer miller and officer nero failed to establish probable cause for mr. gray's arrest as no crime had been committed by mr. gray. accordingly, lieutenant rice officer miller and officer nero illegally arrested mr. gray. >> all right. let's bring in jane miller from our baltimore affiliate wbal. jane, thanks for taking a few minutes tonight. to start on that if you would, the question of the timing of the speed. all of the indications we were getting as recently as last night is this is not something that's going to be coming today, maybe something that won't be coming any time soon and then all of a sudden this morning the police report comes back and now we have the charges being filed. what accounts for that quick speed? do we have a sense of that? >> well the state's attorney office been conducting its own investigation since april 12th and april 13th when the injury to freddie gray occur, so while there was a police investigation, and that was very
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much part of what the state's attorney did today. there was also an independent investigation, more independent investigation by the state's attorney office that was going on simultaneously. before gray's death, and we were in the neighborhood. we saw their investigators going door to door tracking down witnesses, very active investigation at that time so it was really running parallel to the police investigation, and the key was getting the autopsy report as the state's attorney said today. she said it was presented to them today with that homicide ruling. let me tell you about the process here. this has been charged through a charging document. what will happen now, which is a very routine process in the state of maryland is this case will now be presented to a grand jury. there may be additional evidence. there may be the tweaking of the evidence and then grand jurors will decide whether to issue indictments. those indictments may tweak the charges and there may be different charges as well and then that will happen over the next three weeks. that's exactly what happens in most of these cases. most crimes in maryland at least in the city of baltimore, get charged through a charging
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document exactly what happened today, and then the officers are processed and booked and going through their bail process, as we speak, and then the case goes to a grand jury. generally indictments are issued, and then they will come back into court for arraignment and then out of the lower court, the district court, and they will be in the circuit court which handles more serious cases. >> now the six officers charged in freddie gray's death were defended today by the baltimore police officer's union and here was that group's president in gene ryan. >> we're disappointed in the apparent rush to judgment given the fact that the investigation into this matter has not been concluded. our officers like every other american citizen, are entitled to due process. we will continue to support them throughout this judicial process which we believe will result in a fining of innocence. >> jayne, you laid out the proses that we're looking at over the next few weeks here next few months-makers but in terms of the substance here in
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terms of what these officers are being charged with can you walk through quickly basically what the case is that's being made here. one of the officers actually being charged with second-degree murder, the others with involuntary manslaughter. what is the sort of theory of the case here? >> well, the theory of the case first of all, the theory of the case starts with what's being described as the alleged illegal arrest so it starts there. now he's in their custody when he really shouldn't be because allegedly they didn't have probable cause to arrest hi. after we get to that he gets put in the police wagon. baltimore police policy is clear that a prisoner has to be seat belted to secure him that. did not happen in this case according to the evidence. secondly, if a prisoner needs or requests medical attention then an officer has to get that. again, allegedly that did not happen in this kay. this is an injury that occurred at some point in that time line and then because he was unresponsive by the time that
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second prisoner is loaded into the van t.occurred at a enough time before that for his condition to be really seriously deteriorated so the second-degree murder charge against the van driver the van driver has the most responsibility for his safety the second-degree murder charge is second-degree murder depraved heart and that's just wanton disregard for human life and because of this long time from the time he -- the theory about when he suffers the injury the condition starts deteriorating and he's responsive and they see him unresponsive and still don't call a medic. they get to the district and he's not breathing. the man we interviewed yesterday and who was the other prisoner in the wagon. he says that they took him out of the wagon first at the police district before they ever tend ed to freddie gray even though freddie gray wasn't breathing there. may be as you have as 60 minutes passed from the time the injury occurred to the time he gets to
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shock trauma. that's what amounts to this case. this is a negligence case. this is a disregard for the rules and procedures you're supposed to follow and as a result somebody dies. that's the kind of case this is. >> all right. wow, jayne miller wbal appreciate the time tonight. thank you very much. now let's bring in nbc's ron allen. he is outside that cvs strug store that's become ground zero for the protesters. ron, i see some protesters behind you right now. tell us what's going on. >> reporter: a huge crowd just arrived, filing through pennsylvania and north which has been the epicenter of protests of confrontation, of the rioting that happened here on monday. they have been walking around town from city hall to the inner harbor area and now they are here over the past couple of hours. all this began right after the prosecutor announced the charge against the officers. they -- people have been gathering. they have been in the streets. they have been celebrating. they have been joyful. they have been cautiously
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optimistic and skeptical. they have been shocked and surprised. it's been a range of emotions going on out here. people are generally amaze that had this happens, i think, this isn't something that happens. police officers are not usually charged with crimes when young black men die in america so it's a stunning development, and it's something that people are calling historic and they also say they hope this becomes a model for what happens around the rest of the country. a young man that i was standing here with a minute ago made the most profound point i've heard all day. this is the result of people going out and voting not long ago, investigate for a new prosecutor, for marilyn moebs, putting her back in office in november. took office in january. that, he said correctly so is perhaps one of the most significant reasons why we're here today is because this northern now in charge of prosecuting crimes in this area is a young african-american woman who is from this community, who has been -- actually from boston but she's been a part of this community as
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similar to many of these protesters that you'll find in the country perhaps. she's one of the youngest prosecutors in this country. that's very significant. that connects the dots. back in ferguson they had an election in november and elected three african members and council members. that's going to change the dynamic there so for all the history that's made there and all the significance that's happened here, for all these -- the arrests that have happened here that as this young man pained out is profound as well and something we should all focusing on as to why change is happening, why things are changing in the country and why we've come to this day that we have today. steve? >> yeah. thank you, ron allen, for that. i don't know if people caught behind ron there was a very encouraging scene as he was speaking. one of the protesters, it seemed, went over and hugged one of the police officers. they smiled at each other. one of the more encouraging scenes we've seen this week. joined now by kwooisy mfume,
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former maryland congressman and former president of the naacp and joins us now. can i just ask you to start the mood right now and compare it, if you would, to the mood a couple of nights ago. >> well, if i've got my finger in my ear it's because it's awful loud here. there's several marches that have just gone by. the mood here is obviously a little different. there's less anger and more appreciation that at least people are seeing some aspects of justice begin to take hold. the fact that maryland mosby today came forward in a very succinct and detailed and transparent way and offered up enough information that allows people on the ground to connect the dots of what happened when and she gave a complete time line as well as a complete set of circumstances that go with it. so people here are -- i don't want to say buoyant. they are hopeful that this in fact represents the beginning of a process that very often doesn't take place.
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usually when something like this happens around the country. people have pushed to the side. officers will get a slap on the wrist, or the case will be thrown out. these very decisive on her part and as someone who knows marilyn well, i can tell you that she's done her homework. she's not swayed by pressure. she feels strongly committed to justice and strongly committed to the belief that no one is above the law >> you make the point that i think we're accustomed in this situation that it seems in a lot of cases to end with the officers not being charged in sort of similar situations. your reaction this morning. were you surprised? >> was i surprised by what? >> that they are being charged. >> well i'm -- i'm not surprised that the state's attorney took the action that she did and she found the facts and brought the charges because she found probable cause, no, i'm not surprised. what i didn't get surprised by was the fact that although everybody was focusing on the
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police investigation she clearly had enough sense and determination to begin back on april 13th her own investigation, as she said for 12, 14 hours a day with her entire investigative team so that when the police department finally came forward with their conclusion of information in their decision in the investigation, she said i already have it. i've got that already, so what -- what took place here i think surprised a lot of people simply because marilyn mosby took it upon herself to do her own thorough investigation, to verify it over and over again, to find in this case that she did probable cause and then to move forward with these charges. >> and i thought one of the things that was so striking in her statement today, again, was that she spoke specifically to the protesters saying i heard you and i want you to keep the peace now while i pursue justice in this case but do you think when you talk about the speed of this a lot of people are
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surprised that it's today, not a week from now, a couple weeks from now, that she brings the charges. do you think the reaction that we've seen from the community had an effect on the timing of this? >> well, the community, as i said before basically is pleased. we know this is a long process. there will be motioned and appeals and an attempted changed venue, but at least the process has started, and i should tell you this. marilyn mosby comes into this without anything pushing her one way or the other. she comes from three generations of policing so she has that aspect of it. she's a victim and saw her cousin killed on her doorstep when she was a teenager. it affected her so much that she wanted to go to college and then go to law school and then to fight for justice as a prosecutor. she lives in this community. her and her husband, for anybody who knew them bought an old house, built it up raising their two daughters there. she was invested here before any of this happened and before she ever got elected to office so the sincerity of what she brings
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to this position quite frankly is something that is refreshing and that we don't see in other places, and i think that has given her the credibility for people here on the ground to believe that although there are a lot of things that will happen before this is over, at least the states attorney looked at evidence and came forward with a conclusion. >> all right. kweisi mfume former congressman, thanks for joining us tonight appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> coming up we'll get to the law in this care, the prosecutor in baltimore announcing an array of charges for the six police officers, ranging from misconduct in office and assault right up to second-degree murder in one case. later this hour the other big political story of the day, the indictments in the bridgegate scandal in new jersey. this is "hardball," place for politics. and the most advanced vehicle stability system in the industry...'ll ride with a feeling of complete freedom and confidence. visit your can-am dealer and test drive the spyder f3 today.
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>> standing here with some of the young people involved in this really massive march that i believe started at city hall and made its way to pennsylvania north and it's now making its way down the street here. let me talk to a couple of people to see why they are here. start on the end, a young man with a sign that says end the curfew. why do you think you have that sign, the curfew has gone on too long? >> just a violation of our freedom to have a curfew in a city like this. it's not okay. >> what were your impressions when you heard that the police officers, you know involved in the death of freddie gray were charged? what was your impression? >> i think it's a step in the right direction, definitely but we want to see convictions. we want to see them convicted for the indictments. we don't want it to just go by the wayside. everybody needs to stay active and continue pressing on. >> yeah. one of the things that we've noticed is obviously the youth of the crowd but also the multi-ethnic makeup of the crowd. why do you think it's important to be here? >> hugely important. it's not an issue just for african-americans, you know. police brutality and what
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happens to freddie gray affects all of us, and until all of us take a stand against this this will continue to be an issue. >> why did you think it was important to be here today and do you think that the freddie gray case is going to actually change policing in the country? >> well i came from florida this morning just for this march, and the way i see it this is a tipping point so you can either act like you don't know what's going on and act like this is an isolated event and realize that this has been going on for decades in this country, centuries technically, and hopefully the consciousness of america wakes up and they -- they realize that something has to change. >> yeah absolutely. when prosecutor mosby said that this day was for the young people who are part of this movement, the black lives matter movement, she was talking about people like these young folks that talked with us here today. people feel determined to keep going with it and i think they feel like they have had a small success. >> joy reid on the scene in baltimore, thanks for that. much more from baltimore, also
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the indictments today in the bridgegate scandal in new jersey. "hardball" is back offer this. why do we do it? why do we spend every waking moment, thinking about people? why are we so committed to keeping you connected? why combine performance with a conscience? why innovate for a future without accidents? why do any of it? why do all of it? because if it matters to you it's everything to us. the xc60 crossover. from volvo.
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the findings of our comprehensive, thorough and independent investigation coupled with the medical examiner's determination that mr. gray's death was a homicide which we receive today, has led us to believe that we have probable cause to file criminal charges. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was baltimore's top prosecutor marilyn moebs who moved swiftly and dramatically today charging six baltimore police officers with crimes including murder and manslaughter in the death of freddie gray. she detailed how lieutenant brian rice sargeant alicia white, officer caesar goodson, officer william porter officer garret miller and officer edward nero all played a role in gray's death. >> lieutenant rice officer miller and officer nero failed to establish probable cause for
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mr. gray's arrest as no crime had been committed by mr. gray. accordingly lieutenant rice officer miller and officer nero illegally arrested mr. gray. upon arrival of the transport wagon driven by officer caesar goodson, officer rice officer nero and miller loaded mr. gray into the wagon and at no point was he secured by a seat belt while in the wagon contrary to a bpd general order. >> the baltimore police union says in a written statement, that quote none of the officers involved are responsible for the death of mr. gray. today marks only the start of the legal process to hold accountable who killed freddie gray while in the custody of the baltimore police department. joining me now is former maryland attorney general doug gansler and former prosecutor and now defense attorney keisha hebbin. doug let me start with you. you've heard the sort of theory of the case being offered by the prosecutor today. does that fitted with the charges being brought, including
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this one case of second-degree murder? >> well, look, there's two different courts of opinion that are being dealt with or two different courts. one is the court of public opinion and one is the legal system. as you said, the legal system begins today, and the charges are actually quite interesting. you know we don't know what happened. she put the time line out there today that obviously the most difficult charge to ultimately prove before a jury will be the second-degree murder charge, the depraved heart because it will be -- it will be pretty difficult to show that there was an intent to kill by any of the police officers particularly someone just driving the paddy wagon, who drives paddy wagons every day and somebody's spine was hurt. >> i don't mean -- can i stop you there, but i want to define this term for everybody because we think of second-degree murder. my response as a layman on this sufficient, first-degree, that means intent that means premeditated. >> and deliberation. >> second-degree doesn't. what's the difference here because it adds this idea of depraved heart? specifically, what does that mean? >> first we need premeditation and deliberation so they had to wake up that morning and want to
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kill freddie gray. the second-degree would be such circumstances that anybody in those circumstances would know that the conduct that they could would kill in this case freddie gray. that's going to be very difficult to show. involuntary manslaughter which four of the officers were charged with will also be interesting to see how that comes out because what they have to show there is the death can be accidental, which given the theories that are sort of out there, that certainly makes sense, but if it's accidental as a result of some sort of negligence you now have involuntary manslaughter. the negligence on this case would not be using the seat belt on freddie gray a police policy that had been put in nine days earlier and had never been in place for years and years before that. will they be able to convince a jury and where will that jury be, that in fact that was negligence that led to this accidental death? >> do you think that mosby is reaching here at all? >> i think what the state's prosecutor did is do what a lot of prosecutors do in that they charge an array of charges, charge more serious offenses and
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go all the way down like in this case there's an aggravated assault i believe, and the reason why prosecutors do that is because tin creases the options of having a conviction of something. it's like the jurors will have an option as opposed to saying okay, is it only a depraved heart murder or was it an involuntary manslaughter, and i see this all the type and it's extremely typical in prosecuting cases. >> let me ask you, too with the interesting statistic since 2005, 54 cases in which officers shot a suspect to death in a majority of those cases when they go to trial, the officers are not convicted, seems like once you get into the courtroom here, it -- is there something that favors the officers when you get to a jury? >> right well i think this case is totally different because here there's no shooting. there's a man who was arrested and placed in the back of a police van and suddenly he's sick and he's asking for medical attention and then he dies a week later, so there's no indication that there was a fight between mr. gray and the officers or that he had a gun or
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that he went for an officer's gun. this case is going to be totally different from what happened in say ferguson or in the trayvon martin case because here there's some kind of misconduct or a crime. >> and those cases have an element of self-defense in those cases and whether or not the police officers in that case were following protocol. in this case it might be different. no self-defense claim by the police officers and the protocol issue will really come down to the seat belt and the reason why, by the way, until nine days ago they didn't have the policy of a seat belt because no police officer wants to put a seat belt on someone who is acting out potentially that might bite or kick them and that might be a fact-finding mission that the jury will ultimately have to decide. >> appreciate the time tonight. we'll keep an eye on everything that's going on on the ground in baltimore right now. up next the other big political news of the day. indictments in the bridgegate scandal in new jersey.
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welcome back to "hardball," in addition to the big story of criminal charges in the freddie gray case, weave got more breaking news tonight on the crime and punishment beat. this is the big one surrounding new jersey governor chris christie. david wildstein, one of kristie's top yishl appeared in a newark federal court to plead guilty to two counts of conspiracy and criminal misconduct in his role in the scheme to shut down the george washington bridge in the fall of 2013. in addition to the plea deal two other high-level members of christie's staff chief of staff kelly and bill baroney have been charged for their alleged role in the same conspiracy and cover-up. david wildstein told a federal judge he kelly and baroney shut down the bridge as an act of revenge targeting the ft. lee
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mayor for refusing to endorse christie's election. winesteen is facing a max muff of 15 years in jail though will serve less time because of his cooperation with the government. the charges again kelly and baroney carry a maxim penalty of up to 86 years in prison all coming as chris christie prepares to make an announcement about running for president which could come as early as this month. christie's office says that today's news affirms that the governor had no involvement in or prior knowledge about this conspiracy. dale baroney and bridget kelly also maintain their innocence. it was evidenced that his committee uncovered which led to the u.s. attorney's criminal investigation and matt katz is a reporter here with wnyc in new york. assemblyman, let me start with you. >> sure. >> your panel looked into this last year and in your final report you could find nothing to
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pin on chris christie. the u.s. attorneys looked at this and said today he doesn't think anybody but these three will be charge. he didn't find any smoking gun on chris christie. does that mean chris christie should be considered in the clear on this? >> i think it's premature to make those conclusions. i also think that it doesn't really adequately characterize what our report or what the u.s. attorney said today. our report said that we didn't have any findings one way or another about the governor's involvement. mr. fisherman today said that base on the evidence he has he doesn't foresee any additional charges. these are more than just continuing to press the narrative that the governor knew nothing about this. i mean the fact of the matter is that people that he trusted, people that he put into position, people that were his spokespeople at the port authority carried out a very bizarre and very mean-spirited plan to deprive people in ft. lee of the ability to get across town.
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so this is more than simply whether an indictment will come. it's about a moral responsibility of a man like chris christie. >> do you believe -- you have david wildstein, his lawyer for instance, saying again today that chris christie knew about these lane closures as they were happening that. there's some evidence that exists, he says, that would back it up. i mean have you looked at this? do you believe that chris christie knew about this either before or during the closures? >> i find it hard to accept the governor's statement that he knew nothing about what people in his employ were doing. steve, we all know how governor's offices work. bridget kelly didn't wake up one morning and decide to close these lanes because she thought it would be a fun thing to do. somebody gave her the authority. somebody gave her the direction to do this. we don't know who that is. so there's still a lot of unanswered questions with this. we don't know where that will go and clearly the facts that the u.s. attorney has deduced thus far say that there's nothing to charge anyone else on this incident.
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and he's also said based on the facts that they have so far. unindicted co-conspire tors that the u.s. attorney mentioned and we don't know who they are or what they may say in the future. >> bridget kelly speaking of her broke her silence affirming her innocence and declaring her intent to take this case to trial. let's watch what she said. >> i am here today to say that i will no allow the lies that have been said about me or my role in the george washington bridge issue go unchallenged. contrary to the way i've been described by some of my former colleagues i am not stupid. i am not weepy, insecure unqualified or overwhelmed. let me make something very clear. i am not guilty of these charges. for the indictment to suggest that i was the only person in the governor's office who was aware of the george washington bridge issue is ludicrous.
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david wildstein is a liar. >> that sounds an awful lot like to me if this thing goes to trial that bridget kelly as part of her defense will be pointing her finger either at chris christie or at people very close to chris christie when she says it's ludicrous to say that i'm the only one in this office that knew about this. >> i agree. i thought that was a pretty big bomb she dropped. it was more significant than david wilesteen's attorney who says evidence exists. she was out front. it was her saying it and she said like other people in that office knew and, you know the -- the u.s. attorney hasn't said who those other people are yet. we don't know who those other people are yet and it does it. continues these questions about well maybe somebody else does have something indicating that this goes up to the governor. the governor can very fairly say that all these investigations, 16 months later, nobody has brought this into my office. nobody has proven that i had anything at all to do this this but there's still obviously unanswered questions and there's going to be potentially be
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trials going on while this guy is trying to run for president. i mean imagine the split screen of this situation for him. he's going to be in new hampshire, presumably trying to -- to win the nomination and at the same time bridget kelly is going to be on trial potentially disclosing all the dirty secrets of the governor's office and making allegations about, you know who else may have been involved in this. it's -- he had a good day in that sense that he didn't get charged with anything but in a bad day in that this is going to keep going on and on for him. >> speaking to christie in an interview that aired tonight with bret baier. here's what christie has had to say. >> not one fact over the last 15 months that's contradicted anything i've said after an internal investigation after a highly partisan democratic investigation or after a u.s. attorney's office investigation, nothing has come out to contradict anything i said in an hour and 15 minute long press
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conference the day after this became public and nothing will because i was not aware of it but i am accountable for it. >> i wonder if you c sense. you have david wildstein and the feds saying what was this lane closures, to punish the mayor of ft. leer because the mayor the ft. lee didn't endorse chris christie's re-election and the prosecutors aren't saying among who the three would have matter of minded or come up with that scheme but it does raise a basic question that nobody addressed to me. where would the impulse to do something like that come from in the first place? i mean it's such an uncommon extreme, disproportionate response to a mayor of a town of 30 people not endorsing you. where does an idea like that originate in the first place? >> the u.s. attorney today failed to kind of present a narrative of how this all went down. we don't know what preceded the traffic e-mails from bridget kelly that was allegedly the order to shut down the lanes.
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we don't know whether this was part of a coordination with the christie campaign, the -- the -- there was some question about whether the christie campaign folks may not have been able to be charged because they weren't in a public position or maybe they weren't involved in this at all. fisherman did not -- the fisherman -- the u.s. attorney did not divulge any more details besides what's in the indictment and that's what failed to do is give us the fuller picture about why this would have happened. i mean it is a wild wild thing that happened here to close lanes to the busiest bridge in the world just to get back at a democrat who didn't endorse a republican in a race that everybody knew the republican was going to win. >> right. >> and by the way, just in terms of the politics of that. yeah, a democrat and republican it's not that he endorsed the democrat. he just refused to endorse yib which in politics usually that's a win, when a guy from the other party won't endorse his own party's candidate you're doing something right. even that wasn't enough.
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thanks to you both. appreciate the time. up next, we'll go back to baltimore where protests are under way once again on the streets in response to the stunning announcement today that the six police officers involved in freddie gray's arrest are now facing criminal charges. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. thank you mom, for protecting my future. thank you for being my hero and my dad. military families are thankful for many things. the legacy of usaa auto insurance could be one of them. our world-class service earned usaa the top spot in a study of the most recommended large companies in america. if you're current or former military or their family, see if you're eligible to get an auto insurance quote.
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i heard your call for no justice, no peace. your peace is sincerely needed as i work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man. >> all right. we are back. there has been a dramatic change in the mood on the streets of baltimore since the announcement of criminal charges against the officers involved in freddie gray's death. for more on that now we go live to msnbc's craig melvin who is standing by in baltimore. craig, describe the scene, please.
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>> you know what, i want to show you a picture here. we're in west ballmer and there's been so much attention paid to the images that divide us. for the past 10 or 15 minutes i've watched no less than 100 people walk up to the national guardsmen who have been protecting the streets and the neighborhoods for the past few nights, to pose for pictures and the guardsmen being extremely gracious and this has been the scene that's been unfolding here for the past 20 or 30 minutes. you would think the ravens have won the super bowl the orioles, pretty much a party atmosphere here. you've got drummers that have been banging for the past hour or so, a street parade of sorts, a spontaneous street parade about 20 or 30 minutes ago. a lot of the folks i've talked to here, steve pleasantly surprised by the announcement today, pleasantly surprised that
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the officers were indicted. a number of them also understand though that this is very much the beginning of the process. i want to bring in -- you've lived here in west baltimore for how long. >> about ten years. originally from new york. >> what's your first name? >> lisa. >> what's your last name? >> logan. >> lisa logan. you've seen this unfold the past few days in your neighborhood. >> right around the corner. >> have you ever felt unsafe? >> i don't feel unsafe because the community has welcomed me because i live -- i'm a transgendered woman and they have embraced me so to see this in my neighborhood is really just like wow. i'm glad for the verdict and as well coming out in the street. >> you said verdict, but you understand the charges. >> charges. >> i fully understand it but you know what i'm saying just -- just this and inkling alone shows some kind of hope you know what i'm saying that we blacks here in this community have some kind of --
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>> what happens if the officers who are charged aren't convicted? >> there's no way in god's green creation they can't be charged because something happened to this young man in the back while in police custody so something happened so there's no reason why nothing can't be charged. >> this scene that we've watched play out over the past few hours, young, old, black, white. >> black, white, like a street party. >> i don't call it a street party. if you want to say street party or celebration or anything like that, it's justice you know what i'm saying? something that this community needs, a black man going into custody and then die. how many other people have died in this tragedy and nothing has come out of it. this is something. this is a start, you know what i'm saying, a conversation or anything, but what i want to know is why the mayor took so long to even say anything or in reference -- or the police department. why did it take so long for them to be even charged with it? if i killed somebody or hurt somebody i'd be charge that had same day when i got arrested? >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> steve i want to move down just a little bit here.
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excuse me i'm sorry, and show you a little bit more of the scene as it unfolds here on pens pennsylvania and west. you can also look up and see the helicopters. at one point there were five -- five helicopters. this is the only one that we say right now. but, again, it's a surreal scene in west baltimore as you can see the armored personnel carriers moving down the street as people dance in front of them. again, the curfew said off the streets until 5:00 a.m. >> it's amazing, craig, such a departure from what we were seeing just a couple days ago. appreciate that report. craig melvin live in baltimore. our coverage from baltimore is going to continue after this. ...and takes the wheel right from your very hands... ...this isn't that car.
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as this week ends the mood in baltimore changes. we talked about political leadership. joining me now is baltimore city councilwoman. the end of the week, we just had a really fascinating report on the ground from craig melvin, just talking about talking to the protesters about how the mood changed. i wonder if we can take a bigger picture look at the events of the last few days when you look at the leadership whether it's a governor the mayor, whether it's the prosecutor today, who emerges in your mind this week as having really done a good job of leading this city? >> i'm going to tell you, everything has to point to our state's attorney marilyn mosby,
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as well as congressman cummings. from the beginning of the outbreak and unrest was on the ground. people know him. we love him. he's been here with the people in the trenches demonstrating what it means to be in leadership. not afraid and in the ground with the people. we are the people. state's attorney marilyn mosby has taken her task to heart in doing what she's been asked to do. she has studied the evidence. she came out today. she made a statement. indictments came down. we are at the beginning of a process. a process that will take some time. just as she said this afternoon, we need peace as we seek justice. so we're here on the ground to ensure that even in celebration, that we remain peaceful in our community. >> delegate hanes, let me ask you about the mayor of the city stephanie rawlings blake. how do you assess her role this week? >> we have experienced in the city of baltimore something
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that's almost unprecedented in the last 48 50 years. as we have navigated through the events of the last two weeks, from peaceful protests to this time last week where things began to really reach a boiling point, to where we are now, where people begin to see that the first step of justice has taken place. you can always look in hindsight, but i have to tell you, it's been turbulent waters for anyone who is an elected official to navigate this past week and a half. i will simply say that i'm glad we're at this point. i think that in hindsight, even when anyone can probably say, we should have done this or actions should have been done better or worse, but the thing we need to focus on is we're at a point where it's calm in the city. people are still protesting but doing it nonviolently and looking forward and working together to pull together to
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there is an ancient rhythm... [♪] that flows through all things... through rocky spires... [♪] and ocean's swell... [♪] the endless... stillness of green... [♪] and in the restless depths of human hearts... [♪] the voice of the wild within. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts now, live from baltimore. good evening from baltimore city hall. i'm chris hayes. the death