it's working, and though i may not agree with the president or even like the president, i love american zpss and i love the americans this can continue to help. let us rise at least above politics, on something that helps 17 million people. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. socked, let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. did tom brady give that order for softballs? did he. did he purposely get the patriot equipment guys to sneak off to the bathroom to deflate those game balls before the american football league championship. and if so if it's found to be true what's the nfl going to do about it? brady himself will speak tonight at this hour up at salem state university. steve kornacki is there, ready to report.

>> reporter: yeah chris, we are about a half an hour away you can probably see behind me we're outside the o'keefe center up here about a half an hour outside boston. you can so see that line behind me about several thousand people deep. it is slowly slowly moving in towards this gym. i don't know if they're going to get this thing started at 7:30 or not. but when it does start, tom brady will be sitting down with jim gray sports caster. this is a long scheduled event. there was a lot of speculation that brady might cancel this event, it might be closed to the press. the compromise that came out, that tom brady will still do the event, the press will be allowed inside cameras can roll for the first ten minutes. we don't know exactly what's going to be said in those ten minutes. will jim gray ask him a question, will he ask him follow-up questions about that report. will he put them on the spot at all, probably worth keeping in

mind. jim gray has a broadcast relationship with tom brady. they do a radio show together during the season. not clear how much he's going to want to be prying on this. brady arrived here there was a loud noise overhead he landed in a field, he made his way inside. >> my hunch, steve, i think it follows yours, we'll find out from brady at least in some way whether he's guilty or not by his standards. steve kornacki we'll be back with deflate gate. we'll bring you those remarks live when it happens around 7:30 on camera right here. now to isis. two weeks before the event in texas, federal officials warned local police that isis supporters were calling for retaliation. the two shooters traveled from phoenix, arizona, to garland, texas, to heed those calls late

sunday night. both were called by a policeman. they knew, the fbi, that simpson was interested in that event, but had no reason to believe he had to attack there. while the investigation is far from complete at the fbi, the events of sunday down there have spurred new debate about the potential for more isis-inspired lone wolf attacks here in this country. and in a senate hearing, terrorist recruitment today, senator ron johnson of wisconsin said there's a perception problem when it comes to how much the u.s. government actually knows about the threat from within the u.s. here he is. >> >> because of the revelations of edward snowden, there seems to be a perception in america that the federal government knows all and we have perfect knowledge and we know exactly whose online. we know exactly who's on these sites and is becoming radicalized. and the members of those communities were actually very surprised that we had no idea. >> well, this week isis

supporters boasted that the group has a number of members in 15 different states around the country. of course, they named five of those states virginia maryland, illinois, california and michigan. i'm joined right now by democratic u.s. congresswoman, shelia jackson lee of texas, who sits on the house committee on homeland security, as well as msnbc terrorism analyst, evan kohlmann. congresswoman, how big a threat is isis when it blasts out these decrees that there are sleeper cells, even if they don't know who they are, should attack? >> well chris, i don't want them, isis to think they're bigger than they are, but they are serious and we should not take them lightly. particularly here in the united states, when we have just discovered that there's no need to have one-to-one personal recruiting, and it has been done where individuals have been radicalized by people who are in the united states. but the social media is an enormous phenomenon. and we are seeing that it is a major recruiter, as evidenced by the two perpetrators, either one

feeding off the other, but certainly one spending a lot of time on social media. and we in the homeland security committee on the house side have already had a hearing. i know the senate had their hearing today, and it has been recognized as a very serious problem, and i would offer to say that all of our law enforcement, in this instance the fbi, the domestic national security effort here in the united states, has to take this very very seriously. >> how do you know, and you've been a lawmaker for years, and how in law enforcement could you possibly know that some guy, this guy, mr. simpson, an american guy who's become a convert to islam, and then after that at some point, becomes a zealot, an islamist, if you will, a potential terrorist, in support of terrorism, how can you know what's going on in the mind of someone, and a free american, who decides they like this cause, which is ant anti-american. how can a free country actually keep an eye and a nose on what's going on in these situations

which are so personal? >> you have a perfect question chris. we have to use new tools. the court of appeals in new york just indicated that bungling of phone records of americans was illegal, unconstitutional. and we got to fix that in congress. but what i think what has to happen is, just as we participated in the white house summit on encountering violent extremism, we have to use the tools of engagement the tools of getting to know the muslim community, getting to know the imams, we have to get them talking and work with law enforcement. and we have to be more astute about social media, and might i say, the fbi does a great job, but they had some understanding that simpson, even though he looked as if he might be harmless, they did know that he was on social media, he seemed to be engaged, and frankly, sometimes, we've got to go the extra mile. whether that means additional resources and congress is going to have to look at how much money we give to the fbi, with recognizing america's civil

liberties, and to the intelligence-gathering apparatus of this nation again, being very concerned about our civil liberties, to be able to document by a number of entities, again, engaging with the muslim community in this instance, having people feel comfortable to talk to us, sensitizing law enforcement that they can be astute and yes, being able to track people on social media in the appropriate way. because if this gentleman had continued to be followed by the fbi, who said they had him in their eyesight that they didn't think he was too much trouble, and they just dropped him to a certain extent. we're going to find out now that we have to be a little bit more astute in doing this using new tools. >> okay. let me go to evan kohlmann who's an expert on this. and we respect so much what you know about this as well as the members of the homeland security committee. let me ask you -- like mr. jackson. let me ask you this question. what happens when someone like pamela geller decides that they want to do what they do to prove that we have free speech in this country, in a way that insults

1.6 billion people in the world, they can cause something like she's going down there, here's your chance to draw a cartoon of mohammad the prophet and make fun of him. it's a free country and it's a free country for everybody to think what they want to say that they want. there she is. we see the provocativive picture there. she goes out and does that and she's endangering her own life and i guess that's her decision. but there's a chance that somewhere in pakistan you could have mosques overrun, catholic churches overrun, protestant churches overrun, because somebody makes this kind of statement down in dallas texas, or near dallas. how do we live in a world of sleeper cells going to war with people who are provocateurs fairly and legally, provocateurs? this is going to be quite a show the rest of our lives, isn't it? >> yeah, look. she has the right to do this. let's be clear, this is not even an issue of pakistan. i work directly with the fbi. i've testified as an expert witness in 35 different cases, most of which involve homegrown extremeist

extremists. and i can tell you with absolute certainty that there are homegrown extremists here in the united states that are looking at this stuff and it's radicalizing them. that along with propaganda. if you look at anwar al awlaki his message to american muslims is that america is at war with islamic. america will never accept muslim. obviously, that's not correct, but that's exactly the message that pamela geller is putting out. and every time she gets on tv with that message, every time someone defends her, even defends her from a principled standpoint, they give life to that idea. they make that idea seem real. and that's exactly what we see. and this is not the first time that someone, a homegrown extremist, has looked to target someone like geller for exactly this reason. and i would say to geller look you have the right to do this. but you also have a responsibility. freedom of speech is a very serious right and it comes with a responsibility. you have a responsibility to act in a way that is restrained according to fact. and simply yelling at someone and saying terribly nasty things

at someone, look and then to complain about the fact that someone reacts violently to that, to me that's like lighting something on fire and complaining your fingers got singed. you cannot infringe upon someone else's freedom of expression or freedom of speech and then claim it is you who is the victim. it does not work that way. no one has the right to commit acts of violence in the act of faith. no one has the right to commit acts of violence because someone says something offensive. but people who exercise freedom of speech also have a responsibility to understand that words have meaning. and that they can cause harm. and that's why we have libel laws. that's why we have defamation laws. and that's why we have hate crime laws. and i would suggest that what pamela geller is doing comes in some cases quite close to what is normally defined as a hate crime. and if you -- >> let her speak for herself, evan. let's lend her a chance.

here's pamela geller explaining why she does what she does and her right to do it. >> others would say that i was endangering others. that's like saying that the rape victim is guilty because she wore a short skirt. i will not abridge my freedom, so as not to offend savages. this is freedom of speech. >> and conservative commentator rich lowry came to her defense, writing in politico that quote, it is no more legitimate to shoot someone for drawing mohammad than it is to shoot a girl for going to school or a coptic or a shia for his or her faith, expecting apology from these victims may be almost as perverse as expecting one from pamela geller. a free society can't let the parameters of its speech be set by extremists. congresswoman, the president of the united states you can criticize him or not, some do i don't, for making a point for never saying islamist terrorism. he really makes an effort. he leans over backwards to make

sure no one gets the idea that we're at war with islam. even to point out that the terrorism so often associated with islamist extremists from this background. and in the free world, we see this pamela geller insulting islam. they see a guy urinating on a koran somewhere, and they get the idea that here in america, we look down on their religion. we desecrate their religion. and people that only have their religion, they're poor people in parts of the world, that's what they believe and that's their world, they see us literally, at war with them the way we are seen. what can we do in a free society to stop this escalating war of words and symbols? >> chris, you're absolutely right. the president is right in his approach, and that's what i was saying. obviously, the hate speech that came out of garland, texas, is almost like crying "fire" in a crowded theater. and however, it is protected by the first amendment. but that's not the government. it's not the government who is debasing the koran. and so i believe it is important

for the government to be represented by the president's words, the members of dong who should be tempered in their remarks. and that's why the president also does not use radical islam. he uses countering violent extremism. and all of our voices need to be raised against hate speech and begin to talk that we are in a collective family that goes against violent extremism. the kind of extremism that takes actions against christians in countries around the world. the extremism that takes muslims of different sects and kills them. and so we must stand for the idea to protect the right to free speech but that we do not condone or do we agree with that kind of ugly speech. >> what about the august 2012 -- >> chris, i say to you -- >> what about the august 2012 shooting at the sheikh temple in wisconsin? six people were murdered by a white supremacist who killed these people because they were exercising their freedom of religion. in january of 2011 -- >> and we were just with the sheikhs --

>> -- setting off a bomb targeting a martin luther king rally in spokane. that could have easily opinion the next boston marathon bombing. the people who carried those out were white men, were white supremacists. and there is no excuse for lumping all these people together and saying it's an islamic problem. it's a problem of political violence. these people are innocent. it does not matter whether the perpetrator is brown or whether the victim is brown. either way, it's unacceptable. and to say that this is only -- >> well, we should not condone hate speech absolutely. >> yeah. >> i think we agree, congresswoman, i agree with you completely. and also with evan. i think we live in a fragile, it is an increasingly fragile world we live in of true freedom. which around the world isn't quite understood. they don't understand that the president can speak beautifully about our refusal to let this become a religious war, yet when they hear the noise and craziness from texas and other parts of the country, they don't want to hear it the way we put it out. anyway, thank you.

u.s. congresswoman shelia jackson lee and evan kohlmann. >> it doesn't represent america at all. >> the trouble is a lot of people like this fight. coming up deflategate. do you except the report that the patriots knowingly deflated footballs on their way to the super bowl the question is how should they get punished? should they get off with a fine or should tom brady be suspended? and later, we'll hear from brady himself in his first public appearance since the deflategate report came out. we'll bring you that live as it happens, him speaking for the first time. plus chris christie is up in new hampshire. he can't escape the splash of the george washington bridge scandal and those indictments back home in jersey. and finally, let me finish why games need to be played by the numbers and by the rules. zmis and this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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welcome back to "hardball." we're standing by right now to hear from new englands patriots quarterback tom brady. he's speaking a day after a report commissioned by the nfl found he was probably aware of an effort to deflate team balls before last january's afc championship game. brady is one of the biggest stars in football and considered one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the sport. the wells report, it's called, found, quote, it's more probable than not that the new england patriots participated in violation of the playing rules and it is more probable than not that tom brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities. that's lawyerly talk for he probably did it. the report found that the team's head coach, bill belichick, and

its senior management had no knowledge of what happened. patriots' ceo robert kraft said yesterday, he was disappointed, closed quote, by the findings which he said lacked any incontrovertible evidence of the team's guilt. that was a fallback position. what punishment if any, will brady get? jason pugh from this building and steven cornell from "sports illustrated." first of all is this report pretty much conclusive? >> it pretty much is. i think the nfl, the punishment handed down by the nfl is going to be swift. i think it's going to come from the next two weeks or so. i do think tom brady will be suspended, if not multiple games, at least one game for this upcoming nfl season, because of deflategate. >> does he have to admit this at some point or play i didn't do it, and still get punished? >> he's still going to get punished even if he plays the "i didn't do it" card or i had no idea what happened. >> he's been saying all along, i had no idea.

>> he didn't participate in this investigation, didn't hand over his cell phone or e-mail records and that was his choice. but i think no matter what no matter what card he plays -- >> so he didn't help with the evidence -- >> no. >> let me go to steven on that. how do you put it together? the question of guilt, the question of what role he played in the process of whether he was trying to exonerate himself or he didn't bother? basically doing a knowno low contender? >> he had his chance to be cooperative and he blew it. he also blew it with the national media. a couple of days before the super bowl, he was adamant he had nothing to do with this had absolutely no knowledge. it seems, if we believe what's in this report it seems that's not true. i think the time for lenience for tom brady in the eyes of roger goodell and tom vincent, who's the executive vice president of the nfl, who's in charge of player discipline, the time for discipline in their eyes is long gone. and i think the fact that brady was uncooperative, was blatantly did not tell the truth as far as they're concerned, and also the fact that the patriots are

repeat offenders in terms of crossing goodell's office in terms of cheating. >> arlen specter wanted the senate involved in that. >> let me ask you guys in all seriousness, one of the equipment managers goes into a bathroom, a one-toilet bathroom but with 24 footballs. i mean that's funny. he squeezes in there, got 24 footballs into the toilet. he didn't go to the bathroom. he went to the bathroom to do something with these -- nobody walks into a bathroom with these 24 footballs. the whole thing is a ludicrous -- it's like a "saturday night live" picture. but he did it because the quarterback needed to have had a better grip on the ball. and especially in cold weather. we've got two balls here we're going to bring out later in the show in our roundtable. and we've tried these by every producer here men and women both, and everybody agrees there's a difference in the grip. the 10.5 pressure and 12.5 is a big difference. you can get your thumb into one, you can get a good grip on that ball. if every quarterback had played by this lower pressure would

they have done better? is this a better deal? is this like a wider strike zone for a pitcher? >> you can make that case. here's the thing. we know it provided -- >> do you buy the fact that it makes a significant -- >> yes, it makes a difference in a game especially bad weather, raining, cold weather, it makes a difference. >> a softer football is easier to throw? >> easier to throw, easier to catch, easier not to fumble. >> and let me go with steven on that, every time you play football on a cold day, and it's really inflated, it hurts to catch it sometimes. it's a hard thing to catch. your thoughts? >> i'm not going to say that's the reason the patriots won the super bowl or even if they beat the colts in the nfc championship. they could have been playing with basketballs and i think the patriots would have won that game without any problem. but this is a preference of brady. he's an extremely competitive athlete and an extremely competitive quarterback. we've always known that about him. every great athlete, i don't care what sport you're talking about or what the equipment is they're looking for every little edge and every way they can bend the rules to their advantage.

even if this was a mental edge for tom brady, that's going to help him mentally to throw a better pass, i don't think this is the reason we can say the patriots have won four super bowls with tom brady and bill belichick. if this is an example, you talk about it being a "saturday night live" sketch that's exactly what it is. when you come down to it, it's very silly and i don't think it's had any impact on any game. >> listen i watch baseball games, which aren't as exciting as football games, i admit, but how many times have you seen some umpire grab a ball look at it, and see it's nicked up and throws it away and puts in a new ball. somebody decided a long time the condition of the ball, whatever the sport is, is important. >> it's absolutely important. and even if it's a little advantage, a minor advantage that tom brady is getting from inflating these footballs or deflating these footballs, he is the face of the nfl. besides peyton manning, the casual football fan knows tom brady. >> let me challenge steven on this. you agree with me. if it's no big deal why'd he do it? and if it was not big deal why'd he pay a passing presents

to this guy who went in the bathroom. why these gifts and chatzkyies? >> i think it does matter. if you listen to the conversation between the equipment guys talking about what brady likes and what he doesn't and getting very angry by being pushed by him, i think it does make a difference. do i think tom brady would be a great quarterback with properly inflated footballs, i think he would get used to it and learn to throw those balls. why it matters, not so much whether it's helped tom brady throw for 300 or 400 yards in a game, roger goodell's biggest concern is the integrity of the game and that's what it gets to. >> what do you think he'll do? get tough and take him out for six games or something? we've had guys beating up their girlfriends and there's been terrible stuff we've we've seen off the field. what do you think is appropriate here? >> i see at least two games,

possibly as much as four. this is the other where roger goodell has boxed himself in a corner for his lack of discipline for far more serious transgressions for other players. he would seem silly if he came out of the box with six games. but given the media furor and how brady was not cooperative and how he basically lied to goodell's face, he has to give him as much as two games and possibly as much as four. >> how do you compare a guy who decks his wife in a an elevator -- decks her -- like throws a punch -- >> you can't. >> and this. this, which is about the game. >> and that was about life and justice and human relations. >> here's the thing. the casual football fans when the integrity of the game is questioned, you put the entire league at risk. fans that are watching, they want to know that every team and player is on an even playing field. and when this happens, it's a big deal it happened during the super bowl or right before the super bowl it's a big deal. >> i would argue in all of sports, all sports are about numbers. that's how we keep score, that's

how we keep the rules, strike zones, everything how much time you have to throw a pitch. you start messing with numbers, you're messing with the game itself. tom brady's agent donald ye blasted the record and suggested the conclusions were delivered for the benefit of the nfl. quote, the wells report with all due respect, is a significant and it shall disappointment. its omission of key facts and lines of inquiry suggest the investigators reached a conclusion first and then determined so-called facts later. this report contains significant and tragic flaws and it is common knowledge in the legal industry that reports like this are generally written for the benefit of the purchaser. steven, he's arguing, the lawyer defending, of course the quarterback, that this is all home cooking. this was done by the nfl to make the nfl look good and to stick it to the patriots' equipment managers and the quarterback. >> well, he might have a point. this is a report purchased by nfl. this is a report that roger

goodell really felt like he has to come down hard because he and patriots owner roger kraft have a long and well-known to be cozy relationship. roger kraft came to goodell's defense last year when goodell was taking a lot of heat for his handling of the ray rice case. kraft was right there to defend him at first. goodell had to come up with a report that was going to be hard on the patriots and give the appearance of independence to save some of his own credibility, which has really been taking a large hit over the last two years. i think what's led to this is not just the patriots' past you know, history of cheating and spygate and tom brady's lack of cooperation in this case this has a lot to do with the way roger goodell has handled a lot of the controversies he's faced over the last few years. many of them dealing with far more-serious transgressions, as you point out, than, you know the air pressure in the ball. i think goodell, this is an indication to me that he's got a tenuous grasp on control of this league and he's really trying very, very hard to show he's running a tight ship when he seems to be selectively running a tight ship. >> well maybe we're all idealistic and maybe we're all 8-year-old kids when it comes to

sports, but we live in a world now with lance armstrong and barry bonds and a-rod and one of these disillusionments after another. they're not the black sox, where they threw the world series it's not like that, but it's bad. we do count on fairness and we count on the big leagues to be really fair. that's the deal. competitors go out and try to win by the rules and rules matter. anyway, jason, thank you so much for joining us and steven -- i guess we disagree steven. that's what "hardball's" about. it's not softball like in the nfl. we're expecting to hear from the new england patriots' quarterback tom brady in just a few minutes. it will be brady's first public comments since the nfl found the patriots were likely deflating game balls on the way to the super bowl in violation of game rules. and when chris christie heads to new hampshire, his number distractionly deflated. will no one do what i want done whether it's bridges or footballs? anyway, the roundtable joins us

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welcome back to "hardball." we're now awaiting the new england patriots quarterback, tom brady himself, for his first comments since the nfl's deflategate report yesterday. and as we wait, we're getting a look at the first batch of presidential polls following last week's indictments on the george washington bridge conspiracy. the initial damage appears catastrophic for new jersey governor chris christie. christie was the front-runner last summer in the new hampshire primary race, with polling close to 20%. he's now down to 3, 3%. he's dropped to tenth place. he's behind donald trump. christie barely registers in new polling out in iowa. he made his first stop in new hampshire today. following the indictments, he was asked about those plummeting poll numbers and the bridge charges. let's watch him. >> do you think you needs to do something to turn things around?

>> i don't think so. i think the poll you're talking about, 5% of the people in the poll had made up their mind. i'm happy to work on the other 95%. >> how can senators trump the white house with indictments? >> it's such a silly question i'm not even going to answer it. >> hah! hah! that's great it's such a silly question. here's the new jersey governor standing behind the new england quarterback. here he goes. >> listen i think this has been so -- i think this has been so overcovered, i have to tell you the truth, i think this has been so overcovered. the wells report came out, doesn't seem all that conclusive to me. in the end, i quite frankly to have this story be leading the national news with all the other things that are going on in the world is really kind of silly. you know people in public life wind up becoming targets for various reasons. no, i don't think it tarnishes tom brady's legacy. i don't think it tarnishes bill

belichick's legacy and i don't think it tarnishes roger kraft's legacy. i can't think of one way i can relate to tom brady. >> the roundtable tonight, michael steele, betsey woodruff with the daily beast, and steve mcmahon, a democratic strategist. all of you, later in the program, we'll get to the big test. i'll ask all three of you to tell me which one's regulation and which one isn't. it is very discernible. every producer here has been right about this. it does matter. let me ask about chris christie. is he just whistling past the graveyard here? >> absolutely. >> and why is he backing brady? anybody accused of anything is innocent now, because we're the defendants' team now? >> that's exactly what he's doing, trying to do this victim thing, and i don't think it's going to be very appealing to voters and i don't think it's going to work very well. he's at 3% in the polls, behind the donald as you suggest, and normally you know, if you're at 3% and you have room to grow that's not a bad place to be but if you're at 3% and you were formerly at 25% or the

front-runner, usually it's almost over. >> you know there's an interesting parallel between these two cases, the bridge -- which is about traffic codes. remember how he made a joke i was the one out there with the traffic codes, putting them out there, because it's about beckett, the thing about -- well, will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest. the word goes out somewhere in christie's head or the culture in that office that everybody, wildstein, everybody, they're all involved in moving the traffic to screw some mayor who wasn't involved. they got this culture in their head that christie had nothing to do with it. somehow, these guys work in the equipment room and the patriots get the idea that tom brady likes it to exactly 10.6 you know, whatever it is pounds per pressure and they want it just right. they know exactly, they get gifts, in fact from somebody to do this. >> yeah, the parallels are a -- >> of course he's got to defend anybody who was "the wizard of oz" here. you first. let me do this in order. >> rules of threes. if i was a wealthy new england

white guy, i would be extremely concerned right now. we've got bad news for chris christie, bad news for tom brady. if i was michael bloomberg, i would be throwing salt over my shoulder. >> how is bloomberg in this? >> bad things in threes? i'm just saying. got to be careful. >> look i understand you know, while the noise about christie and all of that. i think at the end, let's see what happens if he gets -- when he gets in and how that then shapes the numbers. i think right now, standing on the sidelines with all this other stuff. >> we have trials coming. >> but he's not on trial. >> nixon wasn't on trial either! when you have everybody around you involved in this -- >> i think this is the chairman stuff. every candidate's a great candidate. >> every candidate is a great candidate. >> he was on the sidelines a year ago and he was the front-runner, first place. now he's on the sidelines and he's actually -- i'm not even sure he's in the stadium anymore at 3%. the air is going out of the -- >> i'm not going to deny that.

look, i'm just saying given the nature of how these things flow and how they turn out, look hillary clinton is not trusted, yet she's beating folks in the poll. >> she's 99% trusted the democratic party where she's competing right now. that's pretty good. >> well against -- >> yeah trusted. >> i just think that you know, the piling on we'll see where it goes see where he gets in chris. >> i think he's deflated. >> i'm not saying he's not deflated. >> there you go. >> he's been around once. when we bring you back in a moment come back and watch tom brady's comments. they're coming here live. the nfl's deflategate report came out yesterday. brady's coming out tonight, soon, any minute. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. a mouth breather! well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. allergy medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more. so you can breathe and sleep. add breathe right to your allergy

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. welcome back "hardball." the new england quarterback, tom

brady, is about to make his first public comments since the nfl's deflategate report came out yesterday, it pointed out that the patriots likely deflated footballs on their way to the super bowl and that braid yim y himself was aware. steve kornacki is live in massachusetts where the lines are long outside the event. is this going to happen? is there a delay of game going on? >> reporter: yeah, there is a delay. it was supposed to start at 7:30. there were 3,000, 4,000 people in the line snaking all across this parking lot. it's making its way in but not everybody is in right now. there are still hundreds of people out here. so obviously, this would explain the delay. but we found one of the people who's in the line got him standing next to me. this is brad from beverly, right around here. notice the number 12. this is tom brady's number. you see a lot of people walking around here with number 12. you're here tonight, this is your guy. this report says he probably knew there was cheating going on. what do you think when you hear that? >> honestly like who knows?

if o.j. simpson got away with murder brady's going to get away with this. >> do you think he cheated? >> i don't think he did, but if he did, honestly like i feel like it's something that he shouldn't even have been able to do. that, like if the refs were touching the footballs and handling them that they should have -- >> you're putting this on the refs. the refs could touch the ball in the football game and they couldn't see it? >> and also during that game i saw them switch out a football and, you know, during the game they switched out a football. >> reporter: what do you say to the people who said hey, they had spygate a few years ago patriots stopped winning super bowls after this. now you've got this. they couldn't win a super bowl without either deflating the footballs or doing spygate? >> see, i don't believe that that. they're still a great team and they're still the team to beat. they're fantastic. >> okay. >> reporter: standing by him, chris. that's a true fan. >> we're waiting for the real

news from kornacki and tom brady. you know what winston churchill said, it was the best argument against democracy, a five-minute conversation with the average voter. i hate to be derogatory but that was useless stuff. absolutely useless. i want you to do something useful now. i have two balls, the regulation is 2.6, and the other is made by use for tom brady. tell them apart. you first, michael. >> oh, this one's -- which one's regulation? >> this one i think is regulation. >> yes, you're right. one. >> i'm not looking. >> this is live television, ladies and gentlemen. >> okay go ahead. tell me which one is regulation. which one's strong enough has enough pressure in it to play by the rules and which one's cheating. >> oh, man. this is hard. >> this one is regulation. >> let me see. >> yep. >> come here. >> do we even have to play this game anymore? >> i want to let everybody know

there's a big difference here while brady did this. it's not a joke. >> one's a lot easier to grab. squeeze the charmin here you can tell. oh geez come on really. tell which one is regulation. >> this is regulation. >> let me -- which one's regulation? >> that one? >> yes! all three are right. >> so it's a big deal. this one is harder to grip and that's easier to grip. >> you can throw this a hundred miles. >> if i can tell the difference as the least athletic person on the planet. tom brady who handles footballs all day, every single day, could definitely tell. >> i'm struck with the idea that this guy, who probably doesn't make a lot of money, assistant manager, equipment to the assistant manager, has to go into a bathroom on a game day, has to sneak into a bathroom lock the door with 24 footballs so this big shot married to a supermodel had to look like a super hero with more assurance.

steve says he would are won anyway, but he did it this way. >> that's the thing, he did it a certain way. look you've got the spy scandal a few years ago, you've got this. you've got this -- >> say it ain't so, joe. >> about this team that these guys can't win without cheating. and it does have an impact on legacy i hate to disagree with steve on that. >> and all these guys who took steroids in major league baseball or who bet on baseball -- >> enhancement. >> -- or whatever record they might have had, it has an asterisk next to it. i think it's time for tom brady to get out the asterisk. if he was caught doing this this season likely it is it wasn't his first time. people who break the law, people who cheat, people who do this it's not their first time. >> anybody who thinks this is a pain butt, i had the same attitude during watergate. watergate, i'll tell you what was bad about watergate, supposing they had gotten away with it. supposing just corruption and corruption and cheating and

wiretapping, it would have gotten worse and worse and worse, so you catch it and a lot of guys get hurt by it but it would have been worse if they had gotten away with it. brady's going to take a hit for this. he may take a couple-game suspension for this. better that he got caught. if he hadn't it would have been going on and on and we'll find ourself with professional wrestling and you have a sport that's completely denigrated by wrestling. everybody know's wrestling's a joke, it used to be taken seriously. >> if the nfl has any standards at all, they have to suspend him, at least four games, if they have any standards. >> and if they want to stop cheaters. >> we'll keep waiting for tom brady to come clean or do something. he's going to say something, we'll see. anyway, the roundtable is staying with us as we wait for brady to say something honest. up next, new calls for nullification by some of the republicans who are running for president.

they say, just ignore the supreme court. isn't this like the days before the civil war, just ignore it. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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thanks for coming. we want a spirited performance. who offers the most horsepower? lincoln mkc. we also want clever thinking in a tight spot. anyone offer hands-free in and out park assist? lincoln mkc. bra-vo. the lincoln luxury uncovered event is on. lease the mkc for $329 a month. and for a limited time competitive owners and lessees get one-thousand dollars bonus cash. sitting around waiting for tom brady to come clooenean on this thing, minutes abap bapaway. the first time he'll be speaking publicly since the nfl deflate-gate report came out yesterday. by the way republican presidential candidates are starting to aim their attacks on the supreme court. ahead of the decision on gay

marriage which is expected just next month in june. last month, in iowa texas senator ted cruz denounced gay marriage saying "if the court" that's the supreme court tries to this, it will be rampant judicial activism lawlessness, fundamentally illegitimate. mike huckabee criticized politicians who surrendered their views on gay marriage to the supreme court. here he is. >> we are now threatening the foundation of religious liberty by criminalizing christianity and demanding we abandon biblical principles of natural marriage. many of our politicians have surrendered to the false god of judicial supremacy. my friend, the supreme court is not the supreme being. and they cannot overturn the laws of nature or of nature's god. >> and ben carson said the president can choose to simply ignore the high court. here's the doctor. >> the president is required to

you know, carry out the laws of the land. the laws of the land come from the legislative branch. so if the legislative branch creates a law or changes a law, the executive branch has responsibility to carry it out. doesn't say that they have the responsibility to carry out a judicial law. >> wow. this goes back to marberry versus madison. beginnings of our administration, right of the supreme court for judicial deview. the constitution is what the supreme court decides it is after deliberation. they're saying we can ignore that. then what is the constitution? what is if it is is not decided by the supreme court? >> as you just pointed out in 1803 marbury versus madison. it'sobvious the neurosurgeon went to medical school not law

school. the first hispanic clerk for the -- >> harvard law grad. >> she'she's suggesting the institution he served -- >> is this going to meddle with the republican party's integrity? they're on the loose end of the party. let me ask you. you're in the party. what about the party platform? going to write into the platform, we don't agree with the speak court, it doesn't matter? >> it's purely ugly. to hear potential presidential, you know candidates out there saying that they're going -- if elected, they would ignore what the supreme court decides is constitutional, well, as an executive, you don't get to make that decision. this is the same group that was screaming about barack obama making those extrajudicial decisions about what laws he would or would not accept. here's another point. so you're upset because you're trying to conflate religion your moral code and your religious views into public policy. isn't that sharia law? isn't that something that folks -- >> oh, he's good isn't he? >> this idea that no religious

state should trump the laws that are made by the state? >> you're right. >> so i think we need to be very smart and very careful here as candidates for office, especially the presidency when you start talking about i'm not going to uphold the constitution. you're standing and swearing in my friend. >> i think people like me, roman catholics, we support the moral teaching of the authority of our church and argue about what the law should be. you can live in a world like that, it's called naerk. >> no kidding. it's interesting how so many republicans are critical of the way the supreme court works. handful of republican 2016 candidates coming out in favor of term limits. that would be a radical shift to the way we handle the way the supreme court interprets the law. >> you know, if you get in the question of just -- i'm just wanting the politics of this thing, the crazy talk we're getting. we're getting news to hear anything from the hard right, hard right. bush, scott walker rubio is going to have to come along and clean up the mess and say, yeah they talked about it the

primaries and pre-primaries. we agree with government by law, accept the u.s. constitution as discerned by the supreme court. we're grown-ups, that was just crazy talk. >> well, that's exactly the way some of the more responsible republican candidates feel. it's interesting they don't say it now. i mean jeb bush avoids controversial forums. he doesn't want to get dragged into this. you know, if you're in a campaign and somebody is a racist, it's your obligation as a candidate to call them out and not to just -- >> how about not saying challenging people who say the united states army is not invading texas, and by the way, the president was not born in kenya, and when guys like boehner who i don't dislike personally refuses to say that the president is a citizen of the united states, legitimately elected president of the united states and anybody who disagrees with that is not really being an american. he doesn't because he says things like i can't tell people how to think. you're only a leader. >> you can't tell people how to think, but you can show them how to lead and i think that that is what is critical right now for whoever will emerge as the nominee of the republican party is to have that sister soldier

moment with the party, which has to happen where you say, you know what i understand but this is leadership. >> you should be chairman of the republican committee. >> this is where we need too go. >> you shoupld be. >> the reason he's not -- >> there's a lot of reasons. >> the party has been taken over by the voices that are frankly the unreasonable voices and there aren't enough people -- john boehner to his credit occasionally does stand up and say, look, we're not going to do it that way. he did it on impeachment when the crazy right was talking about impeaching the president again. there aren't enough voices out there doing it and not enough leaders or candidate in the republican party standing up to the nuts. >> on the other hand texas invasion, military takeover conspiracy. >> yesterday. it's really down there. >> rick perry called them out. >> isn't it great when we have to rely on rick perry for an i.q. test? well said. thank you, betsy.

michael steele who should be leader of the republican party. we continue, by way, to wait for tom brady. let me finish tonight with this. games are played by rules. without rules, no game makes sense. think about it. the numbers matter many games. you might say a game makes no sense without them. who's the best quarterback? the guy with the best offense. numbers, numbers numbers. the nfl rules say football must be pumped up to 12.5 pounds not 10.5. say it doesn't matter, then why the rule? say it doesn't matter, you try. you get a grip on the regular pressure and compare it with a ball at the lower pressure. the rule-breaking football is easier to grip especially in freezing weather. that's a fact. we've proved it here. guy he used the rule-breaking softer football is breaking the rules. he's cheating. think it doesn't matter? then you don't know anything about sports. just check the sports page any day of the week. check the results. it's all numbers. numbers are how we keep score, how we decide who wins, who loses. here in this case, who's cheating. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts

right now. by the way, coverage of tom brady's comments are coming up. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. you are looking live at an image from salem, massachusetts, where we are waiting to hear from the man at the center of the deflate-gate scandal. it's a long way from the witch trials to this event in which tom brady is scheduled to speak and be interviewed and possibly address the fact that a recent report would seem to incriminate him and essentially conspireing to cheat a.m.lthough the report didn't come out and say that. said it's more probable than not, essentially manipulation had happened and he brady, had been generally aware of that. we're waiting for brady to come in. he has not said anything since a somewhat infamous press conference that happened during media week back in the run-up to the super bowl. this will be brady's first