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tv   MTP Daily  MSNBC  November 11, 2015 2:00pm-3:01pm PST

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>> thank you for bringing us a little bit of humanity today. appreciate it. that does it for this hour. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. if it's wednesday, it's a field of republican candidates who all sound more and more certain after another debate. but an eventual outcome that seems even more uncertain than ever. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. ♪ >> hello from new york, and a very happy veterans day to everyone. i'm steve kornacki in for chuck todd who's on the road in wisconsin. republican candidates were back on the road today too on the campaign trail after a debate dominated by immigration, by the economy, and by america's footprint abroad. but they couldn't stop talking about last night. >> just a few hours ago, we were on that stage, i still have
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remnants of the makeup on. >> we started off with 17. and one by one by one, they're disappearing. disappearing. it's a beautiful thing to watch as they go out. oh, i love it. >> i just keep my eye on the ball. no matter where they put the podium, no matter where they point the cameras. i've never had any trouble getting attention. >> i'll do better. yeah, i thought it was fine. i did well. talked about issues that are important to people. we need to start thinking about who is the person that can beat hillary clinton, rather than trying to get into small differences between each campaign. >> and hoping to capitalize on a steady if unremarkable debate performance, jeb bush rolled out today the endorsement of one of america's most beloved veterans, once his father's bitter rival, former kansas senator and 1996 republican nominee bob dole. >> i endorsed jeb bush today. i think he's the most qualified,
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and we need somebody with experience. >> senator dole endorsed you, what do you make of that? >> he's a great american, a great patriot. >> for those of us who believe people should come to the country legally and we should enforce the law, we're tired of being told it's anti-immigrant, it's offensive. >> we have no choice. we have no choice. >> even having this conversation sends a powerful signal. they're doing high-fives in the clinton campaign right now. >> today on "morning joe" and later in the day with nbc's katy tur, trump was challenged on exactly how he plans to deport over 11 million undocumented immigrants, and he introduced the phrase deportation force. >> tell me the how. h >> you're going to have a deportation force and you're going to do it humanely.
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>> you've said your deportation plan would be humane. >> totally humane. >> and you've referenced eisenhower's deportation of a million immigrants. that was at times anything but humane. it would drop immigrants off in the middle of the desert. some died of heat strokes. and others were shipped on cargo ships under hellish conditions. how would your plan be different? >> very humanely done. >> how? >> well, it's a whole management thing. good management practices. >> i don't think you can round up and deport half a million people a month. i do think some people are going to have to be deported. if you haven't been here long enough, if you're a criminal, you can't stay. >> hallie jackson is in columbia, south carolina, covering marco rubio's campaign. and katie hunt is in iowa where jeb bush has a town hall tonight. kasie, we'll start with you. i'm curious about that exchange, that divide that was exposed on the stage over the issues of
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immigration. kasich and bush on one side basically saying that trump is being unrealistic, when he says you can round everyone up and deport them. you had trump and cruz coming down emphatically on the other side. what struck me in the exchange, was jeb bush going to the electability argument, basically saying you can't say the kinds of things like that, because it's helps hillary clinton. is that going to be persuasive to them at all? >> i think that's the tension that we're seeing play out here, steve and it's a pretty classic one. we've seen it in many nominations where you have the establishment candidate who is making this argument to a general electorate. i think it was one of his strongest moments because he believes strongly. there was a significant contrast between that and his attempts to criticize marco rubio in the previous debate. i think we saw him find his
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voice. he said he'll lose the primary to win the general. seems like they have taken strides toward doing that. but he's found a more solid footing on this idea of going after hillary clinton. but i also think rubio is someone to watch. he was one of the leaders, architects of the comprehensive immigration reform bill in the senate and now he's having to negotiate that. he's saying he would repeal the executive orders that allow children and the parents of children who are here illegally to stay in the country. that's something that's pretty strong position to take from the way he's characterized his position in the past. and i think in some ways, a brewing battle between rubio and cruz that is potentially going to put rubio in a tough spot. you have cruz out there saying, i'm the only candidate on this stage who is unequivocally opposed to amnesty and fought that fight in washington. >> from the fight that broke out
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on stage on immigration, rubio was this morning asked about the topic of immigration. let's play what he had to say about that. >> this belief that the hispanic community is in favor of illegal immigration is false. they're deeply impacted. there are millions who have come legally and have relatives who are waiting to come legally. >> seems like coming out of the 2012 election, the republican party made the decision to moderate no tone, moderate in policy and immigration and that rubio saw a political opening there to lead that moderatation and recognized the base wasn't ready, then pulled back. so where do you see him landing on this? >> when you look back to 2012, the republican party had come out talking about wanting to
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support the hispanic vote more than in the past. it was ironic to see rubio not in the mix when it came to the immigration debate. it marco rubio sort of backed out of that. i asked health care campaign manager -- i asked his campaign manager if rubio dodged a bullet. he said no, he would have addressed it if it had come at him. but interestingly, kasie touched on ted cruz, who talks about amnesty without mentioning marco rubio by name, but his super pac has come out labelling rubio as pro-amnesty. so that will be a line continuing for the next couple months. >> you could see a couple instances where cruz was planting the seed for future attacks against marco rubio if it winnows down to the two of them. i want to get to trump too. going into the debate, the big question was, would he say to ben carson's face some of the
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things he'd been saying at his rallies. he didn't. he was asked about that this morning. here's what he had to say. >> i don't want to really get into it with ben, because i have a very good relationship. but he wrote a whole thing about the hammer and going after his mother with the hammer and hitting people in the face with locks. >> it was about finding his faith. >> i know. but they're pretty severe. i never went after my mother way hammer, that i can tell you. >> do you have a sense what the calculation is on trump's part? could it be that he looks at ben carson, at someone who is popular and says i'm going to look like too much of a bully if i go after him? >> i think that's got to be part of the calculation, but i also think the way the moderators handled the debate, there was no obvious opportunity for trump to come in there and say this without the ground work being laid previously.
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and we've talked about how he's not someone who necessarily starts with the attack out of the gate. he's more often responding. so if he had been asked about it or if carson had, we may have seen a different approach. i do think that attacking ben carson for all of these candidates, not just donald trump is difficult because of that personal popularity. and also because these stories, and the trump attack in particular, on the life stories, they're part of carson's redemption story. and that's made him so popular with people who knew him before he got into politics. people who read his books, people on the conservative media circuit. they see this and they're willing to forgive him for those sins, and there are a lot of religious undertones to the story that he tells. and so i think that there is risk in going after that particularly from those who are relying on evangelicals for support. >> the other thing with carson, he raised eyebrows when he was pressed for details on a couple of topics.
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one was isis in syria. he made a claim of china being involved in syria. one of our embeds caught up with him to ask for clarification. let's listen. >> some questions have been razed about your suggestion last night that china is involved in syria. can you clarify that? >> well, china has been trying to extend its influence, not only throughout the middle east, but throughout africa. and in several locations. and their interest extends into that region as well. i would have to refer you to some other people to get you the actual data, but they've shown it to me. >> this was something i noticed last night too, we had all the anticipation of would ben carson's personal story be a subject of the debate, it wasn't. but when he was asked policy-specific questions, he seemed in some cases to be struggling to formulate answers. isis being an example. wall street as well.
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is this something from the standpoint of the other campaigns, is it something they feel they need to pounce on, they need to point out? do they think this was something that will be noticed by voters, that will bother them? what do they make of carson and policy? >> it was pointed out to me actually after the debate by a rival campaign, that in this particular instance, and of course this is an opponent so this is what they're going to say, that you saw, given the format of the debate, they really had to know their policy. they had to come out. you saw some people do that pretty successfully. people touting cruz or rubio. that's not something you necessarily saw from ben carson. that said, steve, look at how he's performed in the prior debates too. he hasn't been somebody who has necessarily come out and surged and stood out and had some big
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break-out moment yet. after each debate he's grown with support. he has raised incredible sums of money. in fact, his campaign is now saying he's raised more than a million dollars since the debate ended last night. so it doesn't seem to be hurting him among his supporters. >> hallie jackson, kasie hunt, thank you both for joining us from the trail. coming up, new reports uncover big bonuses for officials at the department for veterans affairs. plus a look at how the 2016 candidates are paying tribute to those who served as they spend veterans day on the trail. and senator chris coops on fighting isis and the debate on capitol hill over getting new congressional authorization to do it. you're watching "mtp daily." limits where you earn bonus cash back. or, you could make things easier on yourself. that's right, the quicksilver card from capital one. with quicksilver you earn unlimited 1.5% cash back
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on every purchase, everywhere. so, let's try this again. what's in your wallet? hey! how are you?g? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a fun side to every drive. nissan. innovation that excites.
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each of the 2016 candidates on the trail today took a moment to mention veterans day and
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america's service members. >> i do want to acknowledge today as veterans day, because i really feel that we don't do enough for our veterans. when you consider what they did for us. >> they do polls and they should, i feel so badly the way vets are treated. they're our greatest people and they are being treated so badly. >> we have the moral obligation in a very non-partisan way to do everything that we can to make sure that all of our veterans receive the quality health care they deserve in a timely manner and get the benefits they are entitled to. >> today is veterans day and we thank you for your service. if it wasn't for your service and your sacrifices, none of these things we're talking about here today would matter. >> jeb bush served coffee to veterans in iowa this morning. and later at a town hall, he promised to fix the va if he becomes president.
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coming up here on "mtp daily," after this break, we are going to be joined by the usual host of the show. chuck todd joins us from out in wisconsin and also, a look at why the department of veterans affairs was handing out nearly $150 million in bonuses at the same time there was incredible backlog. that's ahead.
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back with more "mtp daily," and chuck todd is in wisconsin. he joins us now. let's bring him in. chuck, as we say, welcome to your show. let's start with the debate last night. so the consensus seems to be, no one really had a bad night, except maybe john kasich. but did anyone help themselves more than the others? >> you know, i think in the long run, we might say that this is the debate where we learned a lot more about what rubio v. cruz will look like if that indeed is what we end up with. you know, that is a lot of
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assumptions built into that statement, but i think that that's what stood out to me. you sort of got this preview that all this, at some point in february or march, if carson and trump aren't holding up, i think that's a large "if" at this point, but if that does happen, the two guys in the two lanes are cruz and rubio. and cruz clearly is preparing for it. almost more so than rubio. cruz is sitting there, he set it up with the sugar subsidies line, talking, referring to rubio as a moderate. so there's definitely, i think, that part of this that we -- where this debate lives a little bit longer. the big picture this week, it isn't going to be one of those debates that the initial post debate spin and all of that is going to have a huge impact on the numbers. i don't think so. >> the big "if" there, if carson
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and trump do fade out, we've been saying that about trump since he rocketed to the top, any day now it's going to collapse, and it hasn't. i'm curious what you make of carson as well. last night we went into the debate saying, wow, is his personal story going to get a grilling here? will he face tough questions over that? he didn't. but he struggled with some policy detail questions, particularly on foreign policy. is there a consequence to that for him in the republican primary? >> you know, we'll see. i think he's got to at least sound more sure-footed. the problem for carson, you know, some of this policy stuff, i think trump has proven, if you can sound like you have a plan, or even carly fiorina, you sound like you have a plan and you sell it with some gusto, i think you can sort of -- i don't want to say fib, but essentially
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that, you sort of bull rush your way through it. carson, that's not his personality. that's not his way. so he already has a very thoughtful and sometimes hesitant way of speaking, particularly at times like that, that when you -- you can tell faster when he's not sure of a specific issue, or if he's struggling with a specific issue. i definitely think on foreign affairs, that question in particular. i think he's cleared up the personal issues as well as he's going to clear them up. having the parade magazine article with his mother from 15, 20 years ago. that's a big way of sort of putting all these personal biography issues basically behind him. i'm not going to say it won't linger here or there. but i think he probably can put that behind him. where he's going to i think have to deal with coming forward is the sense that, is he fully briefed, is he ready to be commander in chief? i think that will be the next
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focus for him. >> and i want to ask you about the news today for jeb bush, the endorsement from former senator bob dole. i want to use this as an excuse to play a classic piece of videotape that we were able to dig up today. the rivalry between jeb bush's fath father, bush beat dole in new hampshire. they both appeared on nbc that night, and this is what happened. >> mr. vice president, if you look at the monitor, you'll see the man you beat tonight, senator bob dole who is standing by. anything you'd like to say to him at this point? >> just wish him well and meet him in the south. >> and senator dole, anything you'd like to say to the vice president? >> stop lying about my record. >> ooh, there was a moment that haunted bob dole for years to come. but the dole endorsement today and the jeb bush campaign in general, does this matter today? >> you know, look, there's --
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probably doesn't matter in the long run, but i can tell you this. it was about a year ago last august that i had a sitdown with center dole and after we were done on camera, the guy loves to shoot the breeze about presidential politics in particular. and i remember him sharing something with me that day. hes goes, you know, i got a ca today from jeb bush. and what did you say to him? when are you announcing? so jeb had been keeping regular contact with him and it was at a time where many of us didn't realize how serious jeb was about running at that time. and i remember that day in particular was one that i looked back on and go, jeb was making a lot of calls. jeb was sort of lining different things up in different ways and we didn't realize how serious he was about it. look, is it a game-changer? this is the day you would want
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bob dole's endorsement, veterans day. >> that's true. chuck todd, thank you for taking a few minutes and joining us. coming up, new information about bonuses paid to executives at the department of veterans affairs. and later, chief legal correspondent ari melber has new details on the 2013 death of a virginia man in police custody and how the latest developments could impact the family's search for justice. are rate suckers. he's been paying more for car insurance because of their bad driving for so long, he doesn't even notice them anymore. but one day brian gets snapshot from progressive. now brian has a rate based on his driving, not theirs. get snapshot and see just how much your good driving could save you. we heard you got a job as a developer!!!!! its official, i work for ge!! what? wow... yeah! okay...
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resigned he announced that bonuses would stop. >> no va senior executive will receive any type of performance award for 2014 this year. >> joining me now is "usa today's" donovan slack who broke this news. donovan, thank you for joining us. we all remember the va scandal and shinseki's resignation, the promises that things would change going forward. how did this not change? >> that's a fantastic clip to play because i think we all thought, you know, that the secretary was going to suspend all bonuses, but what we discovered was that in fact he did not suspend all of them. he suspended a sliver of them for top executives and only the top, top ones at the health administration. while the rest of the va continued to receive bonuses. as you said, $142 million worth for performance last year, and those included a huge swath of middle managers and also senior
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executives in other areas of the va and that includes benefits administration, where people were waiting, you know, days and months to get their benefits claims even answered. and it also included construction executives. there's a specific construction project in denver, colorado, that is now $1 billion over budget. it's a complete disaster. the u.s. army corps of engineers has had to come in and take it over. three top officials who were managing that project got bonuses in 2014. >> it's a very disturbing story. the perfect day to be reporting it, to have people reading this. donov donovan, thank you for your time tonight. we turn now to another issue that impacts our military men and women -- the war on isis. with the white house special envoy on isis telling senators behind closed doors that the white house does not need new authority to continue its fight
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against isis. the war has gone on for more than a year now and its legal basis continues to rest on the 2002 authorization for the use of military force that was passed in response to the 9/11 attacks. coming out of that closed door briefings, senate foreign relations chair bob corker spoke about the uphill battle it would be to authorize the president's actions. he said, quote, to bring up something that highlights a divide over that and maybe makes it appear as if the nation is divided over isil, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. one of the senators who was in that closed-door meeting was senator chris coops of delaware. he joins me now. the political reality of trying to get a new authorization specific to the war against isis, instead of relying on something from 13 years ago, the white house is saying it doesn't need it, the top republican is saying, even debating it would dwight the country. is there any realistic prospect for a new aumf?
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>> well, steve, i think we should be taking up and debating a new authorization of the use of military force against isis. we're more than a year, almost 15 months into this conflict and now that president obama has deployed special forces troops into syria, has announced his plans to proceed with that on the ground, troop deployment, i think it's even more urgent than ever. i respect senator's corker's concern that if we had a divisive debate there might be some misunderstanding by our allies or enemies about whether we're divided or nigunited. we have a constitutional duty to look at whether we should go to war. there's two and a half million veterans from the wars in iraq and afghanistan. one of the issues raised is cost. there was no provision made for how to pay for the wars in iraq
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and afghanistan. i think we owe it to the american people, to veterans and those in harm's way to have a debate about strategy, about cost, and about the legal authorization for this conflict against isis. >> let me ask you about what's going on on the ground and in the air in syria right now as that debate over whether should be a debate over an aumf plays out. there was a moment in the debate last night where rand paul, who has these non-interventionists views about this, took his fellow republicans to task and hillary clinton to task over the issue of a no-fly zone. he said it would be a disaster because if you impose one and russia doesn't respect it, russia doesn't violate it, what do you do? do you short down a russian plane? do you start a war over it? what do you make of that concern that rand paul was making over a potential no-fly zone? >> i say senator paul has a legitimate concern.
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syria has fairly advanced air defenses and now with russian top flight cutting edge aircraft there helping enforce syria's airspace, helping support the murderous regime of bashar al assad on the ground and in the air, it would be more difficult, more conflicted than ever. look, it's an extremely difficult situation in both iraq and syria. we have managed to roll back some of the gains that isis made last year. we have flown more than 7,000 sorties against isis targets, along with our coalition partners. but now that we've got both iranian funding and troops on the ground and russian troops and air cover, this is a very complex situation. we owe it to the american people to have a debate about this in the run-up to the presidential campaign, because we should not sort of slouch into another significant war in the middle east, sliding into it through steady escalation. i do support the president's
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efforts to pull together a global coalition. i think the explosion that brought down a russian jet liner over the sinai will likely be shown to have been an isis bomb. and i do think there have been american and russian casualties, we should all be reflecting more closely on what the likely costs are, of the conflict against isis, what the complex security implications are for us to be forced into some sort of a partnership on the ground with both russia and iran in trying to bring an end to the assad regime. it's a very fluid and difficult situation, steve, with big risks. >> chris coons, thank you for joining us on this veterans day. >> thank you. up next, an msnbc exclusive. chief legal correspondent ari melber is here with new video, shedding light on a virginia man's death in police custody. but first the cnbc market wrap. >> thanks, steve.
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we had stocks ending in the red. dow slumping by 55 points. s&p off by 6. the nasdaq sheds 16 points. a tough session for shares of macy's, which dropped about 14% today. the company reported weaker than expected result and issued a warning. hit an all-time high earlier after morgan stanley raised its price target on the stock to $800 a share. they closed at $673 a share and iac has offered to buy angie's list, but the offer was declined. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. amerivest selects the funds and manages your portfolio. is it run by robots? no no, you can talk to a person anytime. 'cause i don't trust robots. right...well, if the portfolio you're invested in doesn't perform well for two consecutive quarters, amerivest will reimburse your advisory fees for those quarters. i wasn't born yesterday.
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movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. back now with "mtp daily" and an msnbc exclusive. our chief legal correspondent ari melber is here with new
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reporting on the story of a virginia man who died in police custo custody. the videos are being seen for the first time today. >> that's right. we obtained 80 minutes of new video from five different cameras, showing every minute of police interaction and a ride to the hospital that ended in the death of a handcuffed virginia man in police custody. it happened in south boston in southern virginia, right by the north carolina line. and these new videos have never been seen before today. they show a deadly 2013 incident in graphic detail, the subject of a lawsuit against police that will be back in federal court tomorrow. the videos are edited and they include these audio recordings and a warning, you should know the video you're about to see is graphic. police video shows this handcuffed man repeatedly tased outside a virginia hospital before dying in police custody. >> we're just taking a little ride -- >> reporter: the police brought him to that hospital, but they
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never took him inside for help. for lambert's family, it's been an agonizing mystery until now. new video, obtained exclusively by msnbc, shows every moment of a hospital trip that turned deadly. police rules caution against rookhis taseing, but officers tased him at the door to the e.r. again as he lay on the ground. then again in the squad car. discharging 20 tasings, including while he was restrained, a violation of their own rules. the incident unfolded in about an hour. it all began during an early morning in may two years ago. police responded to a disturbance call and say they found lambert in a trashed motel room, hallucinating and acting paranoid. he was unarmed and not accused
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of any crime. >> slide over here. >> reporter: officers told him to come to the hospital, handcuffing, but stressing he was not under arrest. >> we're not locking you up. what we're doing here, we're going to take you to the emergency room. >> we're in route to the er. >> reporter: arriving at the hospital, lambert kicks out the car window. and runs from the car towards the er entrance. the officers tase him. they shackle his legs. lambert pleads with the officers and tells them he did cocaine. >> i just did cocaine. why y'all trying to kill me, man? >> reporter: but instead of taking him into the er, they put him under arrest and drag him back into the car.
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lambert slumps down, his hands and feet bound. the officers tell him to sit up and tase him again. >> sit your ass up and act like you got some sense. >> reporter: a single tasing carries 50,000 volts of electricitity. nurses reported seeing three officers tasing the patient at one time and the officers discharged their tasers 20 times in half an hour according to taser company logs. not every discharge automatically reaches the suspect. arriving at the jail, lambert appears unconscious. officers check his pulse. later on, the same hospital surveillance camera shows lambert's body brought back to the er, dead on arrival at 6:06 a.m., roughly an hour after police first took lambert from the hotel.
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>> the videos were not seen by his family until just a few weeks ago. the extent of the taseings has never been reported until today. is this level of tasing excessive force? we can tell you, we want to put the context here. the police department's own rules say it's no longer justified once the subject has been restrained. the justice department's guidelines where multiple taseings increase the risk of death or serious injury. his autopsy notes wounds suggestive of tasing and lists cocaine intoxication for his death. the lambert family say an independent medical exam would reach a different conclusion after the videos today. in court papers, police say that use of force was justified because they argue lambert destroyed proiperty and was a danger to others. the state conducted a criminal inquiry into this and in the
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meantime, i can tell you, steve, all three of those officers have been promoted. >> so an inquiry is still open. how serious an inquiry if they can be promoted in that time. or will this change the nature of that inquiry? >> that's a great question. you look at the videos and you say, that's a lot of evidence. and if you see it as evidence that goes one way, he's running, kicks out the window, running into the door and you say that was enough to justify all the tasings. by now, two years later with all this evidence, you might reach a conclusion. or the other way, as we've reported because it does on its face violate some of the restrictions on tasing. 50,000 volts turns the human body into a conductor of electricity and it's only supposed to be done one or two times. we found 50 tasings that night. so it's a question that's open here. two and a half years later, you don't have a ruling either way. >> the police department, they had seen this before? >> oh, yeah.
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this is something they've been aware of. >> yeah. here's what i can also tell you, the state police handed over their investigation. we found a record in the south boston police department from march that they said in march of this year, the local prosecutor told them that she felt the officers had no criminal fault in lambert's death, which would suggest going towards no charges. but i spoke to that prosecutor today and yesterday. she said she was withholding final judgment, this isn't over. so that's the news here. not only have we done an investigation where we've broken this for the first time, the videos are brand new, but we talked to a lot of the players in it. and that prosecutor telling us, she's still doing her work. >> ari, thank you. ari will be interviewing lambert's family at 6:30 right here on msnbc. you can read the rest of ari's report about the death of linwood lambert on our website.
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a love affair. a quest. the next horizon. everyone loves the chase. still ahead here on "mtp daily," chris christie is trying to launch a comeback. he's getting traction, but now a new development in the bridgegate story. we'll tell you about it. stay tuned.
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despite being at the kids table in last night's debate, chris christie has had a relatively good couple of weeks on the campaign trail. his comments about drug treatment went viral. he jumped in the polls in new hampshire. and the downgrade to the undercard debate actually allowed him to dominate the stage last night. he is trying, of course to follow john mccain's old strategy to use new hampshire as a springboard to come from behind nationally. and he's finally getting some traction. but now could bridgegate come back to haunt him? two former christie aides that prosecutors are not providing all the documents related to the washington bridge closure.
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quote, a number of e-mails two and from governor christie at his personal e-mail address were redacted because the information relates to similar motion that would free up thousands of documents from privilege status. investigators found no evidence that governor christie had a role in the lane closures. joining me now matt katz. i'm trying to read between the lines. are we looking at a routine flurry of motions that defense lawyers will always try to file or are they trying to say something here when they say there are personal e-mails from governor christie that should be out there but nobody has seen? >> they are saying that in service of another argument. they are too mid level in order to make a decision like that. they present evidence and they are hinting they have more
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evidence that indicates christie is involved in decisions when it comes to deciding whether to politically retaliate against the mayor. so they bring up the case of the mayor who did not endorse the governor for re-election. after that happened five meetings were cancelled with top administration officials in one day. the mayor after bridge gate came out and after there was evidence that maybe there was retaliation against another mayor in the scandal to cause traffic jams in his town this mayor said i think i was retaliated against, too. it turns out in the filings we got today that the governor spoke to federal investigators either in an interview, possibly in a grand jury and acknowledged that he knew and maybe approved of canceling meetings. he says it wasn't retaliatory.
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he says it was because he wanted to preserve relationship with a democratic rival and that it was all up and up. it proves at least according to the defendant's attorneys that the governor is involved in such decisions. if he is then these attorneys are saying no way these clients were high enough on the pay scale to make a call like this. >> the calendar relevant here trying to make that come back in new hampshire. the trial supposed to start in april. thank you for joining us. prae appreciate it. >> much more on the republicans road ahead in the wake of the debate last night. stay tuned.
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. back with more. it is time for the lid. joining me now senior editor of politics in the "new york times." let's talk debate. let's talk debate fallout. interesting to watch donald trump in that dynamic last night where he attacks ben carson when he is not in front of him. face-to-face he won't say anything about ben carson. the issue about ben carson and his background where do you think it goes after this debate? >> no one really went after ben carson during the debate. i think there is still an expectation by the other candidates they think he is going to fade and maybe will do
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well in iowa and won't be competitive elsewhere. you saw the hands off the front runner feeling. you saw mini rivalries emerge. it felt like a little bit of a generational shift in terms of energy and action going to rubio and cruz. >> the lid made the point that rubio has been declared a winner in all four of the debates so far. the only one where people say he had a good night. sort of the strategy yesterday, he hits doubles. not necessarily a home run every time but you are going to have a pretty good game. >> one thing to think about is he can run again if he doesn't make it to the top of the ticket. this is a person who will be around. he can run again. jeb bush we are sort of seeing him at arguably perhaps the last chance he has to sort of run. you see the republican party
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having generational debate. rubio is positioning for the future. if 2016 isn't his opportunity we may see him down the road. he is so young. you just don't know. >> that generational contrast i watch jeb . i watch rubio. they are both telling rubio don't get in this race. it's not your turn. you don't want to go up against this. that generational contrast seems to work so strongly to rubeio's advantage. >> it has an echo of obama because obama a lot of people said it is too early and hasn't spent enough time in politics. you see the same spirit in rubio. i think the reason it unnerves some politicians like a bush or hillary that they see this young person coming without a sense of record but with a lot of energy. >> and the line from the illinois senator saying are you going to be more prepared.
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that will probably hurt you more. last night he gets demoted to the kids table debate. he needs a good performance. do you think he can do that? >> a person of his stature and who is very comfortable speaking publically and he run the table against these people. he probably had a better opportunity to break through at the smaller venue. can that carry forward to bring back to the main stage now that you have bridge gate coming up again? that is the big question for that guy. can he capitalize on it? >> the trial doesn't start until april. the verdict will be in on chris christie as a candidate in february. this trial starts in april and there is more drip, drip, drip. >> i think one thing he has going for him is we are entering a period where there isn't a debate for another month. it is a period that calls on different skills. you talking about organization. you're talking about retail
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politics. that's an area where he really does have a raw, natural gift. even in an era of superpacks -- >> thank you for joining us. chuck will be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. erica hill picks up our coverage next. right now on msnbc republican presidential candidates hit the trail riding the wave of the latest debate. who is taking advantage of last night's momentum. racial tension on campus at the university of missouri one man is under arrest after posting threats online. not all students say they feel safe. and an snbc exclusive investigation. new videos of police


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