tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC February 9, 2016 10:00pm-12:01am PST
♪ what a night it has been here in new hampshire. first in the nation primary. the political year still young that continues to surprise early on. let's take a look at what we have learned toonlnight, the ra we have called and determined. this was the first call of the night, the projected winner for the democrats. bernie sanders as expected. if you want to anger the sanders' campaign, ad just as
quickly "from a neighboring state in vermont." 60 to 39 the percentage with 69% in the numbers. will change as we go throughout the night. bernie sanders addressed an uproarious crowd. >> together we have sent the message that will echo from wall street to washington, from maine to california -- [ applause ] -- and that is that the government of our great country belongs to all of the people and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors and their super packs. [ applause ] >> bernie sanders earlier
tonight and now to the republicans. he has done it. he pulled it off. donald trump of new york has won the new hampshire primary. our projected winner just after 8:00 p.m. eastern time tonight. we also called second place fairly early this evening for the governor of ohio, former congressman, john kasich. it is the rest of the race that we expect to remain fluid as a higher percent of the vote comes in. the big race was between third, fourth and fifth. between cruz, bush and rubio. chris christie with a very big decision to make but the winner for the republicans got his time in front of an uproarious crowd as well. >> in terms of the -- >> we are going to start winning again. we don't win anymore. as a country, we don't win on trade, we can't beat isis. we don't win with anything.
we are going to start winning again and we're going to win so much you are going to be so happy. we are going to make america so great again. maybe greater than ever before. i love you all. thank you, new hampshire. thank you, thank you, new hampshire. thank you. we are going now to south carolina. we're going to win in south carolina. >> people of south carolina can expect a large aircraft with the trump symbol on the tail. >> that's right. let us -- there's still stuff to learn tonight obviously what happens down that ticket and for some it will be determinative tonight. in 1996 pat buchanan beat bob
dole with pitch fork poppialism and zeen ofoebic nativism of a very hard cast and he won in new hampshire and he didn't win another single thing. that could be what donald trump winning new hampshire is or this is the start of it for donald trump. and the american republican party will be in line with the national front in france and the u.k. independence party in great britain and these other types of hard right european-style nativest movements, that before now really have been on the fringe, that have been people like pat buchanan, who were never in the leadership of their party. if donald trump is starting to become the republican nominee, we're a different type of country in terms of what our
major parties stand for and i think weir rar different kind of country in terms of where the mainstream and the fringe find their media. and it's a big deal tonight that he's won. >> that's why his victory is an international news story. >> and i think the european press will see it through the lens of their own movements, which, again, don't usually become ruling parties in their systems but it can change the perseng perception of you are as a nation. >> you know who have covered a few electione ess between them? andrea mitchell and chuck todd. >> donald trump, bernie sanders. you the business leaders, the business establishment, mostly republican andlet's say, ceos ad
you can't find a space for yourselves. that's what bernie sanders is running against and donald trump not so much and he may move over to the center in terms of their business proclivities but most of those leaders, whom i have talked to, do not think much of donald trump. they are not comfortable with the way he's conducted his affairs. >> they don't see him as someone who sees things the way they do. >> clearly they are not where america is but american capitalism runs in a fashion that has now been rejected by both parties which have gone to the wing wings. similarly on foreign policy, the iran nuclear deal and maligned the secretary of state, our policy towards latin america and central america, towards canada, the walls.
it's nativest and it's antimuslim but it has enormous implications for our relgations in the middle east and china. >> i'm not ready to cornate him just yet. but if you look at all the establishment figures, they'd be at 46% tonight. so, that would be a winning number tonight. i think what we're staring at is cruz wins iowa, he's established himself as the religious conservative. and the sort of true blue tea parties plus the evangelicals. that is worth a third plus of the party. donald trump is carving out this poppialest wing of the party and
buchanan found it and he's grown it. and now we're going to look -- we still have to figure out who's going to be from the governing wing of the party. the new hampshire folks are essentially saying we want the people with political experience and that's what south carolina is going to serve at and when we have our candidate, i think we have a real shot at a three-way race for a long time and by the way, that means we may go to cleveland. >> because everything happens very fast. >> it does and you can see march still being a muddled mess. you can't count out rubio, bush and we'll see what kasich does. i don't know if he's ready for what's coming in south carolina. you know, he's gotten to avoid this. this is where i'm skeptical. i don't know if he's ready for the tough policies coming. >> he's been surpassing
expectations. >> but this is -- >> speaking in terms of what happens next and the length of the race to come, one of the interesting things is what happened between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. steve. >> that's right, i think this has potential implications for what comes after new hampshire as well. i want to show you what bernie sanders did, specifically in ew. hampshire. sanders is green. and 2008, how much on obama's performance was sanders going to improve and where was he going to improve it? he's just cleaning up in this part of the state. this was obama's best part of the state in 2008. this is the most liberal part of the state but the biggest gains that bernie sanders has made tonight on this map from where beraarack obama did against hily clinton are in areas very blue
collar. this is the city of innew hampshi hampshire. this was huge for hillary clinton in 2008. this was basically a three-way race. barack obama came in third. bernie sanders has won by double digits. what you're seeing is the type of voter that was the backbone of her victory. working class, blue collar voters, along the sea coast, some of these old industrial citi cities, they have flipped to sanders. what this looks like demographically is this. voters who make under $50,000, bernie sanders did better with lower income voters than upper income voters. barack obama won the upper income voters in 2008 and lost, lost big among lower income voters and the college-non-college divide,
bernie sanders doing much better with voters without a college degree versus with a college degree. the implications long term are this. when you think about that democratic fight in 2008, hillary clinton winning in ohio, the backbone are the types of voters that bernie sanders made the most inroads with her in new hampshire. >> another member of our family watching tonight who has been reacting in real time, chris matthews also here in our election headquarters. chris. >> you know, bryan and rachel, i think we can stop thinking in terms of the self-destruction of the two frontrunners. that somehow there was an assumption that bernie sanders would go too far with his promises, too far left, if you will and burn himself out.
i see him growing in support. i think growing in political ability and reach. i think he's reaching well into the democratic center right now and occasionally to the center right. donald trump was going to self destruct. i think we got to start assuming something different than self destruction. to beat either of them someone is going to have to beat them. and hillary has to come up with a reason why she's running. she doesn't have that most basic motive established. sheez a's sort of like how ted kennedy was. i think the assumption that everyone is going to gang up on trump is a big mistake. he's probably going to end up with a situation before iowa where people aren't going to attack him anymore. cruz is going to go after rubio and rubio after cruz because they're the ones vying for the
alternative position. and trump could continue on. as sort of a rule of motion, an object continues in the direction it's going unless operated on by some outside force. what outside force is going to stop trump? what outside force is going to stop sanders? unless it's another candidate better than them at politics. so, forget suicide, forget self destruction. somebody's got to beat these two guys and i think that's what happened to tonight. >> think of this calling we're covering tonight. wow, chris, thank you. we'll take a break here. when we come back, we'll listen to some of tonight's winners.
at 8:00 p.m. tonight, msnbc news was able to predict the winner and bernie sanders immediately predicted as the winner. slightly less than 3/4s of the vote in. this could change but look at that margin. that's right now with 74% of the vote in, that's a 21-point margin for bernie sanders and yes, there were some polls that suggested he might win by that much but not all of them. tracking polls suggested that hillary clinton was maybe closing the gap. that is an enormous gap between the winner and the loser in new hampshire tonight on the democratic side. let's go for a second back to bernie sanders' victory speech tonight. [ crowd chanting "bernie"]
>> thank you, new hampshire. together, we have sent the message that will echo from wall street to washington from maine to california. [ applause ] and that is that the government of our great country belongs to all of the people and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors and their super packs. [ applause ] nine months ago, we began our campaign here in new hampshire. we had no campaign organization, we had no money. and we were taking on the most powerful political organization in the united states of america.
[ applause ] and tonight, with what appears to be ea record-breaking voter turnout -- [ applause ] -- because of a huge voter turnout, and i say huge. we won. because we harnessed the energy and the excitement that the democratic party will need to succeed in november. [ applause ] >> bernie sanders in a long and confident victory speech tonight
in new hampshire. he was preceded in that speech, basically immediately, by the person that he beat, by secretary clinton. he gave a shorter speech that was also very fired up and as soon as she was done, bernie sanders took the stage. she got up, congratulated him and gave an enthusiastic speech. >> i know i have work to do, particularly with young epipooal but i will repeat again what i have said this week. even if they are not supporting me now, i support them. because i know -- [ applause ] -- i know i've had a blessed life but i also know what it's like to stumble and fall and so many people across america know that feeling and we've learned it's whether you get back up.
[ applause ] so, my friends, please, join me in building on theress we've made under president obama, pushing forward every single day for as long as it takes to break down the barriers that hold us back. wreever g er we've got to believe in the bat basic prop zishosition of our country, then and only then can america live up to its potential as well. >> former secretary of state hillary clinton giving her concession speech. let's bring in chris hayes and it was decided by one quarter of 1% in iowa. hillary clinton winning that victory. if the margin holds tonight, if
this holds, that would be the largest margin in any modern era democratic competitive primary. right now it's over a 20-point margin. i think the previous record is 16 points from 1980. >> i've been thinking if i had a chance to talk about where this campaign is and where it needs to go. basically don't panic. stay the course, iowa and new hampshire are incredibly unrp unrepresentative and you shouldn't get jumpy. the other is this is evidence of a problem. i think you can say is when you fill in the blank. bernie sanders is running for president because. and hillary clinton is running for president to -- and the fill in the blank is do a really good
job. that is the message. >> because i know what it takes and i could handle it and you can trust me to do a good job at it. >> and there's a reason to say that but it is not a message. i am running for president to do a really good job at being president is not a campaign message. >> and some of the numbers that we've been given in the evening should really be of concern for the clinton campaign. one, is young people going for bernie sanders, 85% or something. that is -- that's just outrageous. i mean, she cannot -- >> and that didn't get better for her after iowa. she lost by a 70 points margin. >> it's that huge here in new hampshire. so, she has to improve on that. and the other is the numbers that showed essentially working class white democrats, who were
her salvation, or near salvation in 2008, have forsaken her and are going with bernie sanders. >> politics -- and when you try extrapolate out to what her weakness in these demographic cohorts mean further out, the problem now is they're going to the south carolina. bernie sanders to the prove that he can seriously, genuinely and sort of fully make inroads among communities of color. he has yet to do that. >> the one internal number tonight that i think does comfort the clinton camp is that if this were a race just among democratic voters, among people who identify with democrats, it was a tied race.
it was because of independents, undeclared voters. >> even that is somewhat remarkable. >> that's losing than losing by the margin she's losing by. >> and i think people, there's a certain thing, a certain part of our politics that likes to see her brought low and there's the line about the 74-year-old socialist beating hillary clinton. bernie sanders has run the best campaign in this race. it's been, in particular, the best, most disciplined, well run and honed campaign from ads, campaign, fund raising, to everything. do not underestimate the quality of what they've -- >> and they're going to be the most spectacularly funded campaign in the race as well. i want to bring in a little
donald trump for a moment because on the republican side, he was called as soon as bernie sanders was called, which was right at poll closing. john kasich coming in second is going to be a huge headline tomorrow. and this guy is going to be three point font all across the united states. >> i am going to be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. remember that. [ applause ] don't believe those phoney numbers when you hear 4.9 and 5% unemployment. the numbers probably 28 or 29, as high as 35. in fact, i even heard recently 42%. do you think we'd have gatherings like this -- if we had 5% unemployment, do you really think we'd have these gatherings? >> there's something that's going to on that i'm not sure that anybody can quite
understand. there magic in the air with this campaign because we don't see it as just another campaign. we see this as an opportunity for all of us and i mean all of us, to be involved in something that's bigger than our own lives. to change america, to reshine america, to restore the spirit of america and to leave no one behind. am i right? that's what we're all fighting for. [ applause ] [ crowd chanting "kasich"] >> john kasich campaign signalled yesterday that they thought they were going to do well tonight when they said that they were having a large ad buy in the state of south carolina and in the state of nevada. jean, does john kasich have the kind of campaign and personality that can win in south carolina in a republican primary? >> since the last republican
primary in south carolina, we don't know. because if you recall four year tz ago -- >> newt gingrich, baby. >> yes, and before that they had a steady and reliable record of choosing the eventual nominee and mainly main-stream republicans. they like candidate said who are for a strong military. that means a lot for the state, and but it's just sort of a rock rib, down the line republican state until four years ago. >> does it deserve its reputation for cut throat, mean spirited nastiness being necessity to win in a republican primary? it has a reputation of being a fire and brim stone, leave the trail of dead behind you kind of feel. >> it is lee atwater's home
state. and politics was almost futile in the sense that there were vessels and they played tribute and that sort of thing. it was a throwback state. there was real, sort of, anger and antiestablishment feeling four years ago. i can't believe that's gone away. i think it's probably stronger now. the other thing about south carolina of course is that it's changed over the years because so many transplants from the north have come down. whole coastal region is really politically an animal that i don't think anybody has quite figured out. my guess is it's very good territory for donald trump. >> when we come back, we're going to talk to a bunch of our reporters who have been out in the field but now they're right here.
♪ we are back at our election headquarters. the part of the room you don't normally see and we're in a circle of people we have never seen in one place at one time we just figured out. all of our correspondents from the field along with mom and dad from the studio. family meeting. >> it's like the brady bunch if the brady bunch were all
sisters. this is what the boys on the bus look like this year. it looks deliberate but it's really great. >> thanks for asking a man to attend. you got to cover donald trump's victory party tonight. it's kind of slowly still sinking in. it's one thing to talk about his chances of winning the new hampshire primary. and another to talk about our victor in the new hampshire primary. >> considering this started in the world's most famous escalator and everybody was discounting him the saying this was a rodeo show and he would quickly fall away. the amount of times that we, in the media, have predicted donald trump's down fall, dozens, hundreds. >> and in thespecific. thinking the reaction to latest
thing he's said would finally fall down around him. >> and the "p" word. >> we didn't know we had to have an adjective. >> calling john mccain not a war hero. he said things about john kerry i wouldn't repeat on television and calling the other candidates low energy and nasty. bragged he could shoot someone on fifth avenue. there's so many things, it's hard to recall them all at once. and we've been calling him the the frontrunner in the polling for seven or eight months and now he's proven that he can turn these lines of hundreds of people waiting in subzero degree temperatures or in the summer, hot lines to speak and we air them live on tv and it says a lot that people want to go see
it in person and not just on tv. >> casey hunt, you're covering a guy from brooklyn, new york by way of university of chicago to vermont to many years in washington kind of nicely over looked these days, officially an independent, sits with the democrats in school on capital hill, is a democratic socialist and is the victor on the democratic side in the new hampshire primary. >> and not just the victor but by a margin. >> unprecedented. >> his senior strategist works for michael dukakis. i think that for the sanders campaign -- i mean, look, they felt from the beginning like they were on to something in this electorate and wree've see it this whole election but i think they've been surprised by the fervor of their support.
if you remember when he first announced he was running for president, it took 10 minutes, my guess is tonight was four times as long as his actual announcement. he started off saying this is going to be quick we got to get back the capital and do some work. he's discussed this saying people treated me like a fringe candidate and the reality is it's pretty clear the clintons really missed something. when i first got to iowa, i wanted to look around and say are my instincts right that something is going on here energy wise? and it turned out that was right and it continued to new hampshire. he obviously has challenges across the rest of the map. but there is something very real here that goes beyond where we all assumed that it would. >> the first signs that we had that senator sanders was on to
something were the size of those rallies. when we started to say there's this giant republican field, obviously hillary clinton is going to win and bernie sanders is only compcompetition, come o. and he's turning in numbers bigger than secretary clinton but bigger than anybody on the republican field and he did it consiste consistently and there's this bias from those of us looking out in the field and saying big rally numbers don't mean anything. they don't have any absolute value political meaning. i mean, how do you know when you're at something that it means something bigger than just that moment? >> i think we knew when we saw him in portland, oregon and boulder, colorado. we saw those enormous college crowds. >> and minneapolis. >> which is, by the way, where minnesota democrats loyal to hillary clinton who said if it
were today, he would win the minnesota caucus. the bernie phenomenon is deeper and broader than i think any conventional wisdom recognized. >> it's not just necessarily the crowd size, it's the crowd energy. you go to something like a ted cruz rally, and these people showing up are true believers. they're not necessarily showing up in the thousands but they deeply believe in his messaging and that counts and stands for something and you can see him feeding off his energy and his message has been incredibly consistent since the day he got in this race until tonight and his campaign is pointing to iowa and their showing tonight in new hampshire, a state where he was never expected to do anything. >> and you're not seeing them
show up just to say they did it. that's not happening. >> and i think the challenge is for secretary clinton, the crowd sizes, is what to make of it and her campaign has been trying to dismiss the crowd sizes. i think tonight was the first time the clinton campaign had to take a hard look at itself. they were hoping to keep the victory by bernie sanders down to about 10 points. i just talked to a source, they are and she indicated this to you, taking a hard look at her message. i'm told it will be much more focussed. you're probably going to hear her hit him on the fact that his health care plan would increase taxes. >> and she's moving left. it was in her speech tonight but there is that videotape thing out there. then she's going to get hit for -- >> paid speeches. >> and i was for it until i was
we are back with our round table of experienced correspondents who are never at the same place at the same time. so, we're taking advantage of that. and chris matthews announcing that on a special edition of "hardball" live interview with the victor on the republican side in new hampshire, donald trump. cris jansing had an equal roll of poll watcher in eeffect. you got to cover democracy at work and then you went to the bush headheadquarters. >> he put it to me and i think
there's an elephant of truth to it, anything above dead would be considered -- [ laughter] >> he said they've been writing my obituary, so anything above dead is good. but when he came out tonight, there was an energy that we hava hava havantant seen from him in a long time. i think the last three months is a bit of an exaggeration but he's started to feel more like himself. i started covering him before he announced he took this trip to europe and all the talk was he does he separate himself from the bush name? one of the things they're going to write about when they teach class 20 years from now is going to be how he has, for better or worse, stayed true to himself and i think that what has happened as a result of that is
that people are starting to appreciate a certain level of authenticity that he has, which in a way is the same thing they love about bernie sanders, who is the same guy i knew as a mayor covering him in local news. >> and that's what the young voters keep talking about, authenticity. that's why they like bernie sanders. i spent yesterday on a college campus. >> and marco rubio seemed like a politician to them. >> you know how they say in television you can tell when they're faking it. when you're in a place like iowa and new hampshire and they're looking you in the eye askingio you a question and i talked to people who have been to five different events, they get a sense of you, they do. >> so, all of the campaign staffers and candidates, who is freaking out the most?
>> rubio's people are. you heard him apologize. >> the candidate? >> i think he's had a very rough 72 hours. this has probably been the worst few days of his campaign. this is not the position they've wanted to be in. they've been talking about how they wanted to be able to beat the other governors in this race. >> and they had all the momentum out of iowa. >> a ton of momentum. >> i'd say bill clinton is freaking out the most. he didn't take questions on the road line. he always takes questions. >> watching him watch her these last few days when they've been campaigning together because previously he was on his own, just watching his face, he could not mask the recognition that oh, my god, this is happening again. she's going to lose. >> it's not us projecting that on to him? >> i don't think so because something fascinating happened
on sunday which is he had two events. at ninety-firfirst one, he gave typical speech. and then that night, that's when he turned into the attack dog mode and it wasn't clear where it came from, one cannmpaign official sort of said it was his decision, we weren't stopping him. >> a very small traveling press core. >> the candidates not there. >> and wonder what hillary clinton would be like if you threw away her organization, got rid of it and let her be herself, much in the same way that donald trump has been. he has nothing behind him. >> traveling around the world, a completely different person. >> and i'm no political genius but i get the sense talking to younger folks they don't trust her and if she threw it all away and seemed like she was talking
off the cuff -- >> as secretary of state, she was the most engaging person shooting the breeze. i think she was in a comfort zone of i'm talking about substance with a press core that only cares about really nerdy stuff and this deal and this trade agreement. and it was the kind of thing she really liked. >> so, the challenge is how does she translate that? >> hillary clinton on her blackberry, there was a time when she was secretary of state, she was cool among the young r generation and when she started campaigning again -- >> and after she was secretary of state and she was writing a book and before she declared for president and i think in the debate where she said she hadn't made that decision, thought was
not authentic. she gave paid speeches and at the time i said what is she doing this for? if she ever wants to run for office? why is she giving paid speeches and it was like that's what all the other former secretaries yi. >> on the bernie campaign, the person running the campaign, he ran the kerry campaign and the dukakis campaign that water great at getting there and then splat. do you have an idea that they have a winning plan or was this all they were planong gning on getting? >> first of all, he feels like there's a stronger message than with john kerry.
obviously he has challenges but what they're trying to do is build a different coalition that obama built in 2008 by eating into some of the people that supported her over obama. so, particularly that applied to blue collar and women. working class people in particular did not support obama and they feel like they can actually -- >> and a part of that strategy is knocking her off of her momentum, so that they can make that argument that he's a credible candidate. >> international symbol for time, as in we've run out of it. we'll end this as we've started. you've just witnessed the very best at what they all do, we don't do this because they're always out doing this.
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into tonight's voting ended up winning. >> true. >> but it still feels stunning that bernie sanders has won on the democratic side and donald trump has won on the republican side. new hampshire has a way of upending things. i think we are going to see the field shrink on the republican, i think we are going to see absolute chaos in south carolina and a happy john kasich. >> it will be morning before we really know the story on the republican side. >> that's true. >> this goes on. what is night for most of us quickly becomes the next day in politics. special edition of hard ball, chris mautsd with donald trump, thanks for this hour.
welcome to a special edition of hard ball. by the way, there is our license plate from new hampshire, place for politics, live free or die. we're here in new hampshire, for a special edition of hard ball. donald trump silenced critics today who questions whetherities his months long lead in the polls would translate into primary success. according to our exit polls, trump led among men, women, young people, older voters, people at every single income level as well as voters who
called themselves conservative and moderates. donald joins us now by phone. mr. trump, what do you like better, caucuses or primaries? what do you prefer? >> well i loved what we did this week. and i think the caucus system is a difficult system. but i just don't they it's as accurate it's something nice chris when you can walk in, pull a lever or do whatever you have to do to vote and leave. i think it is a much better and more accurate system. >> i've been arguing you and bernie sanders have one thing in common, you are not going to self-destruct, someone has to beat you. you are not going to beat yourself. what do you see, when you look between here and the cleveland at the convention, what's between you and getting the nomination right now? >> well, i think i have a chance to do very well in south carolina. i'll be going there tomorrow. and we have a tremendous speech. i mean the crowd is going to be enormous tomorrow in south carolina. you know i've been doing very well there. we've attracted a lot of people.
and very big audiences. i look forward to doing well there, chris. >> mill tair terry to make it number one again. >> i have. one of the reasons i did so well with the vets up in new hampshire is the fact i have a great relationship with the military, a great relationship with vets and we're going to redo it. our military is depleted. we are laughed at and scoffed at. we shouldn't be, but we are. we are at a point where i remember not too long ago when general ariano, a good man when he left he said it's really in terms of preparedness one of the worst we've been in years. think about it, our military is
not in a good state of prp preparedness. i was amazed to hear that. so we have got to build it up and make it very strong. hopefully we won't have to use it but we are going to be strong nevertheless. >> you are going to increase the force levels, the size of the navy. have there any elements you have thought about in terms of you are going to be the commander in chief. >> we are going to be dealing with theed a mirls and generals and talking to them and finding out what they need. i know they order equipment that in many cases they don't want butities politically exspeedient -- -- campaign contributions and buying equipment that they don't want and stuff they do want they are not able to buy because it's not political. it's sort of like the drug business, the medical business, where -- so we can build up the military, but we want to build it up with the right stuff.
i'm self funding so nobody is going to be telling me what we should and shouldn't buy. i know for a fact we are buying things in many cases -- not in all cases -- they don't want. they want other alternatives. >> now that you are on top are you going to within the the series of debates that have been planned, with cbs and with fox will you go to all the debates that have been scheduled. >> yes, i actually like the debates. the debate i missed with fox i missed it because they did something which wasn't very nice. but we are totally patched up and it's fine now. but they did something which wasn't appropriate. i wouldn't have missed what i did. i raised $6 million, and now it's up to $7 million for the vets that night. so you know, that's sort of telling about my relationship with the vets and the military. since that one debate. the last debate i think i did very well on. one thing you know, chris, if you don't do well, you start
going down and you go down pretty rapidly. we got a good glimpse of that. >> is that what -- >> say it again, chris? >> is that what happened saturday night, he went way down in the polls here? >> i guess so. he is a good guy, i like him. it was a tough debate. i think the press was pretty tough. that made -- certainly did not help him. he ended up lower or maybe a lot lower than people thought he would. the ultimate poll is the one we just had. had he not been in that debate or had he not had the misfire, if you want to call it that, certainly he would have been higher than he ended up. >> i now have to pronounce you something you may not like. i now pronounce you, si, a politician. don't like that. >> the good part is you are a winning plig. you are in the business now, sir, you are inside the game. thank you for calling me so late
tonight. congratulations really on a personal level. >> thank you chris, i greatly appreciate it. great honor, thank you. >> let me bring in our panel. chuck todd's here, eugene robinson, and republican strategist steve schmidt, senior adviser to the great -- it looks to me i've been arguing newton's law of motion. you have got to stop these guys, stop bernie, stop trump. they are not just going to die. that's been an illusion of the crit. on trump is a clown, he is going to fizzle. and. >> the clintons need a message, they need an elevator pitch. i can go up in ten seconds and tell you what bernie sanders message is, okay? i can't do it with hillary clinton.
i tried it with every one of the establish -- >> why do you want to be president? >> i think she hasn't figured it out. yes they are going to have to take it to sanders and that comes with some risk going after sanders. on the republican side who is going to take trump on? somebody has to. i think the most fascinating thing to watch in the next ten days is figuring out who goes after who. >> let me drive something by you. status quo -- kpruz and rubio have to fight it out now. >> look, you got -- i think jeb and trump share more potential vogters in south carolina than anybody else. and the coastal moderate. do you think kpruz and rubio may be going after each other a little bit. that's true. kasich is the wild card here. he gets a little bump out of
here. i still don't know where he quite goes. >> does he get a bump in south carolina? >> he gets a bump financially. i don't know if he gets a bump in south carolina but he has got play there. >> i know a guy from south carolina. here he is. i think you know the democratic party and the republican party. i was talking about military stuff because i assume out there it will be all about the military. >> south carolina has a lot of military installations. making the military strong again or stronger is not just a philosophical thing for south carolinians, it's an economic thing. so there is going to be a lot of talk about that. in south carolina, a natural state for john kasich? i'm not sure it is. remember before 2012 south carolina had quite the record of choosing the event nominee, right? i mean, pretty mainstream. >> through rotten campaigning. those were nasty. >> i think that's what is coming. i think this is going to be ten days of nasty. >> yeah. >> i think this is going to
be -- we've been -- >> by the way it is ten days. >> a quentin tarantino number. >> john mccain's wife was a druggy. his daughter is of indian -- >> meanness is a virtue in south carolina. this is a state that's got a unique political culture. out of all the states, these are rough-and-tumble states. >> we were hanging out with listen degraham covering the mccain campaign, we got familiar with the mud being thrown, the dirt balls being thrown at john mccain about his family and drugs and everything. all nonsense. >> at the end of the day. it's a tough business.
south carolina is probably the toughest state in a tough business. >> are you defending it? >> i think it's part of the process. >> part of the process to have your kids. >> no, no, no. there is virtue, in stress testing people who wish to be the most powerful person in the world. >> i agree. >> and to command the world's most lethal military. >> the people of south carolina -- do they see the truth or do they -- >> donald trump, inside the republican primary over the course of this year is a very -- make america great again. it's resonating with voters. he has tapped a vein amongst republican voters in this country. he's appealing to them to the send of frustration and economic anxiety they feel. we have all these predictions. and now you are seeing it play out in the democratic primary.
somehow, some way, self destruction. >> do you believe that? >> i've never believed that. >> yubl self destruction. >> never, since the first hour of the kpachblt you are right, someone will have to engage or try to beat these candidates. but so long as you have an unsettled establishment field, donald trump is the insurgent in the nationals. >> some of my progressive people i talk to on the air, you know, we are 'all very -- well, not so clearly. if he's up against cruz, a number of those people like bush's voters and christie's voters and kasich's vote remembers not going to ted cruz. they could as likely or more likely go to trump. i don't buy this he is against everybody and everybody is
against him. >> i would not discount donald trump. let's take pat buchanan's victory in new hampshire in 1996. trump has been the leader of the polls for nine months at least. >> yeah. >> and he had nothing. he was a talk show host. >> he had money. >> donald trump can stay from now until the convention. -- [ audio problems ] >> i want to see what happens. >> that's -- >> hang on buddy. i want to see what happens when the jeb bush machine that has been destructive to rubio -- i want to see what happens when they dump $20 million on trump somewhere. then we'll see. >> when? >> that's what i want to notice. >> is it too risky?
are they afraid to do it? >> let's look at marco rubio tonight. because i hear christie ain't quitting until he gets rid of rubio. let's watch him saying how he let down his voters on saturday and therefore did badly tonight. here's rubio. >> i can tell you i know many people are disappointed. i'm disappointed with tonight. i want you to understand -- i want you to understand something. i want you to understand something. our disappointment tonight -- on me. i did not do well on saturday night, so listen to this, that will never happen again. >> his problem was that he flubd saturday night. higgs problem was he repeated him five times in a strange version of i don't know what. do you think he is out? >> no. >> i think this was very damaging to him because you know the classic washington
definition of a gave, you accidentally say the truth. this confirmed the wrap on marco rubio. he is not ready. he is robotic. he is preprogrammed. and at that de. you know. >> i know. is he dead. >> yeah, i think it's over. look at the end of the day, marco rubio had his moment. he emerged. he emerged as a candidate could could have been the nominee. he was on track to eventually come in second, maybe even win new hampshire. goes into the debate. his supporters couldn't name a single qualification. tell me the state that marco rubio wins next. if he wins the nevada caucuses and he is organized out there and he has a chance he rehabul tats himself. if he doesn't win in nevada he has big problems. >> there are a lot of voters, the old phrase the elite is low information. they don't pay a lot of attention, don't watch the debates. they like that he is cute, well spoken, he's young. like him better than the others because he doesn't yell as much. he still, to a lot of people,
and those who put money behind him, he has those things going for him. >> he has got some money. he has a lot of -- that saturday night debate was so destructive. >> i think he was under a lot of pressure on saturday. he has an opportunity. i don't think you can totally say he is out because he does have resources. >> who has the better chance of surviving, he or jeb? >> jeb. >> that's tough. >> i don't know, man. jeb's got some high unfavorable -- rubio has more room to recover. i hear whats' saying -- it is a one of those things, maybe it is a virus that can't be cured. but you still have a higher rating there. jeb has hard negative. >> around the room, starting with you, if you are on the plane landing in new york with
donald trump and you a-- afraid between here and the cleveland convention? >> a rehabilitated jeb. >> really? >> in a funny way it's jeb. in a funny way, it's jeb. jeb could do fairly well in carolina. and, you he no, he is a substantial guy. you might -- -- >> it's ted cruz. donald trump can't get into a by father race with ted cruz in an ideological fight the way that hillary clinton is in one of those fights with bernie sanders. as long as cruz is in the mix -- >> he is the only one who could knock him out. >> elaine. >> ted cruz. >> i think he has the hard right wing rail.
but i also think that everybody else is out of the race. personal relations are hard for me to read. you know them better than i do. >> moderates -- kasich, does kasich hate trump not to go with him but to go with cruz? the same with bush? the same with christie. >> he's done. he is not going to qualify for the didn't and that's his oxygen. >> we are going to miss him. >> the hillary clinton plane going to new york tonight. >> if i were you, i'd get everybody off the plane. [ audio problems ]
>> welcome back to manchester, new hampshire. this special edition of hard ball. this is a special time in this year's presidential election fight. this was bernie sanders speaking after his resounding victory over hillary clinton. sanders won by a margin of more than 20%. that's more than double digits -- double, double digit. i'm joined by chris heys the host of all in on msnbc. joy read, and howard carp. >> bernie sanders approach is brill yanltd. he reads notes, no teleprompter, nothing fancy. i'll going to start talking like him. got the hands flying around. he is like the college professor who is 28 years old, assistant professor of political science doing his teaching. and he has all these interesting statistics and and he brings them out, each paragraph of thought has one great statistic.
everybody is like, wow, it's working. >> you talk to people who have worked with him or known him for 50 years say he hasn't changed. he didn't do drugs in the 60s, he was all about changing. when he talks this way, people realize it's from the gut. there is no question about whether he is calculated or trying to present an image to win voechlts it's his message. it's something that hillary clinton. >> did you get the feeling tonight that hillary clinton's speech well, was teleprompted and had no poetry. like a waugher the mondale speech, something for gay people, something for people of color, something for this group, that group, didn't seem to be to have purpose. when bill ran was for people to work hard and play by the rules.
hillary has no unity of argument. bernie has one unitary theory of everything. >> right. >> here's the problem. here's the thing. when bill clinton runs in 1992, he is running not only to inflict generational change on the country but also a partisan change. you had a republican president who was in office. he was running against a republican. bernie sanders is essentially change candidate, change from barack obama, saying his policies were not liberal enough. there was an interesting piece in the exit poll where says 40% want barack obama's policies continued, hillary clinton wins those easily. hillary clinton, she is she doesn't have a changed message because she wants continuity. >> she wants the job. that's her motive. i want this position, the
presidency. >> she says she can do it competently. she is selling competence. >> i think there are two things going on. one conditions of the country, the wages have stagnated, the message resonates with people who have not seen gains from the great recovery. the second thing is, i can't help but think back to 2004, democrats, a totally different mindset just in the bunker, they're like who can we run against bush? is there a general around? let's run to guy. there is no like, a political revolution, it's like can you find a dude to run against him? now it's like well, we've run two in a row now maybe we can elect bernie sanders. >> well, people want all the things he is offering.
but when he says i'm going to slap a tax on the stock market, what does that mean? >> that is a totally reasonable policy. >> how can you get a raise on the stock market -- what do you tax? >> you tax the transaction. >> transactions? >> yes -- >> he calls it speculation. >> right, because the point is that if you're buying and holding you're going to pay essentially nothing on it. the people who will pay a lot -- >> all the retired people -- >> people -- >> they're paying very little -- >> everybody is talking about taxes when they think they're going to be on somebody else, you have younger people who think they're going to get the wall street guys. i was talking to someone who talked about taxes on themselves and the question of whether they would be taxed. and if you start to talk to people about across the board taxes but just don't hit the 1%, but hit them, then you start to
get to the brass tax. >> the thing is, hillary clinton in 2008 won working class blue collar men here in new hampshire. she had an argument that the clinton people for years worked to that crowd. she has totally lost them because she is not connecting on these issues of economic security and structural -- >> did she connect tonight? >> i don't know, sounded like too much -- i think obama is trying to raise the bar -- >> why did she offer a speech tonight that really emphasized anger? >> because she is trying to find an emotional connection to the people. >> with michael dukakis. >> is she trying to mimic sanders? there he is, the concession speech. >> people have every right to be angry.
but they're also hungry, hungry for solutions. what are we going to do? i will fight to rein in wall street, and you know what? i know how to do it. we have to keep up with every fiber of our being. the argument for the campaign for human rights. human rights as women's rights. human rights, as gay rights. human rights as worker rights, human rights as voting rights. human rights across the board for every single american. now, that is who i am. that is what i have always done. that is why i am in this race. >> you know, tonight would have been a night to quietly talk to people about a loss. and to remind them why you're in politics and the issues you were fighting for in a soft way.
why she fought the applause there, she had a whole series of things to fight the applause with just for terms of style. this is not workers of the world unite, you just lost an election, why are you still in the fight? bernie sanders doesn't seem angry. >> i actually think if there is one characteristic you would attribute to hillary clinton, her years of public life, it's resiliency. has there been somebody more resilient? >> bill. >> i mean, hillary clinton has been through it time and time again. and tonight i thought that was part of what she was showing. but ultimately look, here is the thing. hillary clinton, she is not a terrible politician, not a jeb bush level disaster. but she is not an incredible natural politician. this seems clear now on the second campaign. she is a remarkably accomplished individual who probably has the best resume for president ever. >> how would you rate her as a candidate one to ten?
>> one to ten? >> candidate, candidate, running for office. >> i would say seven as a candidate. >> but -- wait, the difference between -- >> what would you say, david? >> i would say six, but she is talking about her resume and how she can do a good job and be competent for practical solutions. bernie sanders is talking about a cause, it is not about what i can do. join this cause, join this revolution, these are two very emotionally different pitches, and right now the democratic party wants to be a part of a crusade. the expectations came up with obama. >> and you have to remember in 2008 when barack obama lost here what he did was he walked out on that stage and he gave people a dream. this dream written in the founding documents. he went big and talked about the dream of the country and he has that ability to sort of go beyond himself and go beyond the campaign. and talk about a dream. that is not who hillary clinton is, she is a resume. an incredible --
>> these are -- i tell you -- david talked about resumes. resumes don't happen, they happen when people actually attain something. >> and without taking sides, it's a tricky one, can you see in your imagination hillary clinton overtaking bernie sanders in terms of appeal to the country? her appeal? >> i can see -- yes, and the reason for that is because we are talking right now about a slice of the electorate that is more liberal, whiter than the electorate we are coming to. i'm telling you, black voters are about winning, pragmatic -- >> i can see her winning, i can't see her forging a stronger, more enthusiastic -- >> she can pull a mind job, she can be exciting. >> best moment of hillary clinton's campaign so far was 11 hours of benghazi. think about what that means.
>> that is a lawyer's job. >> she was at her best when people saw her for 11 hours. their challenge is to boil that down to what you see. >> handling issues, and winning. when she handles issues -- this is a hot time. it's after midnight. >> we're in a bar. >> anyway, thank you, joy reid. coming up, the agony of defeat. i'll speak with reporter who were there with sanders, clinton and bush, the actual people watching a special edition of "hardball," live from new hampshire. >> guys are sleeping on mattresses in the campaign headquarters and they hold up a hot plate where they're eating their food. that is how you win elections.
tonight, the light overcame the darkness of negative campaign. and you made it happen. you made it happen. you made it happen. you made it happen. you made it happen. >> welcome back to "hardball," up in new hampshire, with "hardball" tonight, and the evening if you're out in california. and i personally having watched politics forever love those personal moments when the guy or
woman is caught up in the motion with victory and defeat. let's start now, we'll take a look at what jeb bush said tonight. let's watch jeb bush. >> this campaign is not dead. we're going on to south carolina. we also need someone who can defeat hillary clinton in the fall. not just hillary clinton, apparently maybe bernie sanders, as well, who knows? >> well, been down so long -- i mean, he is fourth or fifth and he is really happy. >> well, he is still fighting for third, and third is the new first, didn't marco rubio set that standard in iowa?
look, this is the campaign that is left for dead. he feels like he has been given new life. i will tell you that the energy in that room -- >> those are the numbers, trump, 35, the big guy, then john kasich leading by a significant four points. cruz, bush, rubio, all within o one. >> and all of them have an argument to make about south carolina and going forward and the reasons they will do that, although rubio is the only one tonight who gave an apology. he told his supporters what happened on friday night, what happened in the debate will not happen again. >> how does he know that, that was not on purpose. it is not like he did it on purpose. he repeated himself five times because he apparently was shook. >> he says he is not going to be shaken again. >> but didn't he do it again yesterday? >> there is a lot of exhaustion at play. but if you go to any of his
events, you will see that he has his standard lines as they all do. >> i think he is the worst in that regard, very much a robot guy. when you talk about happiness, who is your candidate and why is he happy? >> i think what we learned from marco rubio tonight was sort of stunning. when i was at the clinton campaign headquarters i have to tell you she tried to spin this loss. it was a bruising defeat tonight. they were hoping that they could hold the loss to single digits when they saw it wasn't going to happy. they hoped it would be within ten. it was a lot higher than that. i was watching -- >> why was she so transparently obviously miserable when she was speaking? >> i think bill clinton has been sticking to his trip with the exception of sunday night when he really let loose. >> why is he unhappy when his wife is speaking -- >> well, i don't know if he was, the wheels are turning in his head what he needs to be doing
differently. what i can tell you, there is a little bit of repooling going on when it cop comes to her messag >> does she know why she is running? >> well, that is a question for her. >> that is a message. >> well, it was interesting tonig tonight. i think you will hear it, very focused on wall street. >> she keeps doing what he is doing. don't you think people are going to notice that she is mean to him -- >> she is going to make the argument, well, i have been talking about this all along, and go over the issue of taxes. >> the state university, nada, paid for by the government. big increases in social security benefits without taxing the individual. >> she has not been talking about it. >> by the way, when he says medicare for life, for all, that is a misstatement.
medicare, you work 50 years and pay into it and then get ten or 15 years at the end of your life. if you're a woman, 20 or 25 years. that is the model, he is acting like we'll get it from the time we're born. the money is going to be coming to us. >> there is a sense from others that they wish she started talking about some of away you're saying earlier instead of waiting until this was a real race. >> it looks like she is only attacking her because he is beating her, not because he doesn't have an argument. >> i have been with bernie sanders. for the last week and a half. >> as i said i thought -- you have heard it so many times. he does it so differently than most politicians. he doesn't use the teleprompters which is so genuine. >> they have a copy of his
speech. he showed me the speech, he carries the same copy. it's like all crumbled, maybe you spilled water -- >> not like he is a professor, he taught english lit for 20 years. >> his bodyguard carried his folder around for him. he is there with this manila folder. it is really clear there is something going on here that the clintons completely missed. they're talking in particular about -- and chris, you focused on this a ton over the course of the years. the working class blue collar voters, voters who are not with obama, they are with bernie sanders, huge numbers. and they went for her, hillary clinton in 2008. that is what the sanders campaign sees as the key piece of a potential coalition. >> can you tell covering it every day with the candidates why a 55-year-old white guy, who is making 40 or 50 if he is
lucky that year, why would he turn to bernie sanders rather than trump? >> well, look, i think that the trump supporters, people showing up at a trump rally may say i'll think about bernie sanders too, than the people who are at bernie sanders rallies. i think that there is fundamentally something going on with people who are working these jobs. they feel excluded from the economy. on the republican side, it's hey, i want to be like that guy, donald trump. i want to be able to make that kind of money. from the bernie sanders message, the message is wrong, i think there is messages on both sides. >> a lot of people who come from europe, first or second generation, they do bring that social tradition with them. their parents talked like that. anyway, thank you, stacey hunt. thank you, much more, good night to everybody.
i'm going to get a pizza after this. more coming ahead from manchester, this is especially some "hardball," live from new hampshire on this really big historic primary night. something happened tonight. >> we are going to fight for every goal in every state. we're going to fight for real solutions that make a real difference in people's lives.
environment. and on to nevada, and the so-called sec primary. senator cruz, before you get to this place called nevada, think about a place called nevada, because in nevada they may like you to name the state correctly. anyway, donald trump and john kasich were one and two tonight, there were a lot of contestants tonight, while rubio acknowledged the disappointment. jeb bush says he has reset the race. my god. >> the pundits had it all figured out last monday night when the iowa caucuses were complete, saying that it was a race between two freshmen senators and a reality tv star. and while the reality tv star is still doing well it looks like you all have reset the race, and for that i am really grateful. >> and now it depends on who stays in and who drops out. i was joined by hot shots.
and joined by my friend, he writes everything and never stops writing and reporting. what a great magazine. and francesca chambers, from the british press. and -- i'm going to -- howard, what is it about these old wasps? what makes jeb bush think he had a great night? >> it only cost him $35 million to end up you know, in fourth place with 11%. however, his point is, and i think it's valid. let's say stock car racing. donald trump is jeff gordon, like five laps ahead, you have four guys all trying to crash each other on the track of the race. you have john kasich, cruz, bush and rubio. and for that role to be the non-donald trump, it's true.
jeb, having spent like $55 million in iowa and new hampshire is still part of that. i think not a big part of it. it is basically rubio and cruz, and i would look at cruz as the likely number two going down the road. especially in the sec primary. >> i see him as the conservative, trump sort of in the middle -- >> i see trump and cruz sort of in that lane competing and everybody else in that different lane. bush as people told me last night, they are really hopeful for south carolina. >> who is hopeful? >> that bush's campaign -- >> well, they have to be hopeful, what else are they going to be. >> eight years after the presidency ended in flames, they think that george w. bush can pull out south carolina for his brother. >> what an atypical state where dub can help him. >> i see it like the march
madness this a basketball game, now, i went to the university of kansas, so on one side of the bracket you have donald trump versus ted cruz. then you have the rubio versus bush dynamic going on. and john kasich is like the wild card, right? like the 16th seed trying to get in there. >> the wild card of waiting to hear what sports -- >> you know everything we don't know, tell us what we don't know that you know. >> so i look at this as like going to a fair and you have one of those horse races. you have three different lanes that you're dealing with. you have a trump lane, clear. you have a cruz lane, because he has evangelicals and libertarians. and then you have a third lane of all the establishment republicans. by the time you get to a convention it's a third, a third, a third. nobody is nominated. so that is why the competition for the establishment lane -- >> okay, with those three lanes,
which two lanes get married and screw the other lanes? >> well, i think the delegates openly become sort of free agents. after the first ballot, 85% of them are unpledged. >> is that fun? >> i can tell you, chris -- this is great news for ben ginsburg. because -- >> he is going to be the convention -- the convention -- >> this has been a great night for american politics, people voted today like mad. big turnout. beautiful weather, a great democratic day. lower kc, thank you. that is a good thing for you. too. francesca chambers, the special edition of "hardball" continues live from new hampshire after this.
donald trump for the republicans, that does it for me in this special edition of "hardball." live from manchester, new hampshire, our coverage of the primary continues right after this, here on msnbc. tomorrow, the new hampshire results will be in and the place that covers all the angles is "morning joe," the place that covers all the interviews and
what a night it has been here in new hampshire, first in the nation primary. the political year, still young, that continues to surprise early on. let's take a look at what we have learned tonight, the results we have had come in. the races we have called and determined. this was the first call of the night that projected the winner for the democrats.