hi, everybody, good afternoon. i'm thomas roberts live in

schohare, new york. we're in a a farm to market food. potatoes, pallets that will be shipped to manhattan tomorrow. while this is fertile ground for candidates canvassing the state today, this area is formally known as the breadbasket of the revolution. when we think about the candidates canvassing the harvest of votes here, we have a lot to talk about, speciespecia with new york being delegate rich. more about schohare. we're about a four-hour drive west from albany, about three hours from the city of manhattan. in schoharie county there are about 7700 registered republicans and 5300 registered democrats. new york is a closed democrat

state, which means you must be registered with a party to vote. new voters must have registered by march 25, and voters who want to change their party must have done so six months ago, and i mean they had to do it by october 9 of last year. oddly enough, that means two big trump supporters and surrogates won't be voting for their father on april 19. both eric and ivanka trump missed the deadline to register as republicans. >> they were unaware of the rules and they didn't register in time, so they feel very, very guilty. but it's fine, i understand that. i think they have to register a year in advance and they didn't. so eric and ivanka, i guess, won't be voting. >> meanwhile, since independents can vote in this primary, it could mean a lot for hillary clinton and bernie sanders. a poll in march showed bernie

sanders beating hillary clinton 59% to 35%. with about 27 million voters unaffiliated with any party, it's a block that won't be able to vote next tuesday. so democratic candidates are out campaigning today. clinton is in queens while bernie sanders is in upstate today. trump is in albany, while kasich is in saratoga springs as well as troy, new york. cruz is campaigning in the delegate-rich state of california where they won't vote until june 7. in the next hour, we'll be checking in with all our reporters and correspondents who are covering the trump campaign. i want to talk to jacob who is in albany. cruz swept the delegates this weekend, and trump isn't disappointed with that loss, he's also crying foul. what is his big complaint.

>> it fits into his argument that he's really been making for ten months, that he is this outsider candidate running against the establishment, and that the whole system is corrupt. so it fits into his narrative when he loses all the delegates and there wasn't an actual vote. for example, in louisiana where he won the popular vote but he may end up not getting more delegates. so you're hearing him make that argument more and more. he really likes it, and it seems to be the audience, those who are in the rallies, those who are in the crowds listening to that argument, they like that argument. a lot of people who we meet in the crowds as we walk around seeing them in the crowd here, 1700 more are expected, a lot of them hadn't been in a political rally, a lot of them hadn't voted before, or they're democrat and they're going to switch over. so what donald trump says about the system being corrupt, they all like it. here's what he talked about this

morning. >> i'm up millions of votes on cruz, millions. i don't mean i'm up by two votes, i'm up millions and millions of votes. we've got a corrupt system. it's not right. we're supposed to be a democracy. we're supposed to be you vote and the vote means something. >> reporter: and back out here live, we talked to many people who are here because they've taken off work or they've taken off school, or they're out of work. thaelts t that's the big issue. they say they've never been at a political rally, mainly because republicans don't usually do this in new york. it's not usually a big deal. they're very excited about it. >> that's coming up tonight. two of the four adult children of donald trump who aren't able to vote coming up because they weren't registered as republicans. a lot of people will run into this because they weren't

registered by october 9 of last year. are you running into people there that have that same issue and they're locked out of the primary? >> reporter: no, i haven't talked to anybody who has had that issue, but it's interesting you bring it up. if i hear you correctly, it's pretty loud out here, but donald trump's own children, ivanka and eric this morning, he talked in that same interview about how they won't be able to vote for him in the primary because they missed the deadline to register, which was march 25. interesting issue that points to what you're talking about there, thomas. >> okay. our jacob rascon at the trump rally taking place this evening in albany. i want to go to another event that's happening in albany. bernie sanders speaking at his rally there. let's step in. [ cheers and applause ]

>> secretary clinton has said that she is prepared to release the transcripts if everybody else does the same. well, i am prepared to announce here in albany, i will release all of my transcripts! [ cheers and applause ] [ chanting ] >> which is not difficult for me to do because there are no transcripts! [ cheers and applause ] >> you know, my cell phone is on, and i continue to wait for that call from wall street to invite me to give a speech there, and i don't want 250,000, i don't want 2,000, i don't want anything. i want the opportunity to tell

them that their greed, their recklessness and their illegal behavior harmed the lives of millions of americans. [ cheers and applause ] >> and i would like the opportunity to tell them when three out of four of the largest banks in america today are bigger than they were when we bailed them out because they were too big to fail, we have got to break them up! [ cheers and applause ] >> now, let me talk about another issue with secretary clinton and i have some very significant differences, and that is the issue of fracking.

and i want to congratulate the people of new york state for having the guts -- [ cheers and applause ] >> -- for having the guts to tell the governor and the fossil fuel industry, you will not accept the poisoning of your water. [ cheers and applause ] >> in 2012, i was very proud that my state of vermont became the first state in america to ban fracking. [ cheers and applause ] >> and we are seeing that movement proceed all across the country. [ cheers and applause ] >> the growing body of evidence

tells us that fracking is a danger to our water supply, our most precious resource. we cannot poison our water. [ cheers and applause ] >> in my view, if we are serious about safe and clean water, and we must be serious about safe and clean water, we need to put an end to fracking not only in new york and vermont, but in every state of the country. [ cheers and applause ] >> we're listening to bernie sanders as he's holding this live rally in albany, making the contrast between himself and secretary clinton on the point of fracking, but also about the point of releasing transcripts, making a reference back to the

speech she gave to wall street and the fact those transcripts haven't been released. bernie sanders said he doesn't have transcripts to release, but if he d he would release them. i want to bring in nbc's gadi schwartz who is covering the cruz campaign in irvine, california. really interesting, gadi, when we think about this how far down the line california voters will go to the polls as opposed to here in new york. why is ted cruz taking his campaign to california so early? >> reporter: it's funny, jacob was just talking about how the trump campaign is in new york. they're talking about some kind of rigged system. we're seeing ted cruz here and he's working that same system in california right here at this rally. they are starting to get people pumped up, but they're also trying to build some grassroots organization. you hear them asking for people to come forward and volunteer to make phone calls.

that's the type of grassroots organization that ted cruz is trying to set up in california, because we're talking about 172 delegates. california has more delegates than any other place in the country, and those 172 delegates, because of the way that california's primary is structured, are very, very loyal. so, basically, california is a winner take all by district state, meaning that if ted cruz wins here in irvine or the orange county area, he'll get three delegates. each congressional district gets three delegates that goes to the candidate, they are hand picked and then sent to the convention. they remain very, very loyal. 172. that's a big number and they are looking forward to that convention. thomas? >> all right, gadi schwartz reporting out there at the cruz campaign in irvine, california. gadi, thanks so much. right now as we speak, and as you can scbee in the lower partf the your screen, john kasich

rallying in troy, new york. he is past ted cruz but still behind donald trump. kelly o'donnell has been following the john kasich campaign, and she joins me now to talk about the contrasts being made. kelly, how does kasich feel about his chances here in new york? >> reporter: they think they can do better than he has seen along the way. why? because northeast republicans might be more well aligned in the way john kasich is. i've been listening and he's taking a poll on health care. he's taking lots of questions from voters, not during the big rally speeches, although tomorrow he will be doing a big speech in new york city where he will try to outline two different visions for this campaign season, one that says, we're the country that is an optimistic country ordeal with fear and all the paranoia that

can follow that. you can read through the lines, thomas, what that means. he thinks he possesses a positive outlook, fear, and that is when he's talking about donald trump. winning tomorrow doesn't look like a winning strategy, but it could be for john kasich in that he's trying to get more delegates. if he shows improvement in the other states, as you know, he's only won ohio, his home state where he is currently governor, this could help in terms of building credibility with the other party. there is a lot of battles with these delegates, what roles they will play in the convention, what committees they will be on to decide important things that could ultimately determine the nominee. a short time ago we were at the state capitol with governor kasich. we asked him about a sort of jarring and jostling between his campaign and ted cruz's, and the alliance he found with donald trump.

>> kelly o'donnell reporting in troy, new york at the kasich event. kelly, thanks so much. i want to go deeper now into what all of this is playing out for me for the convention coming up for the gop in july. ben ginsberg is a political analyst and public strategist and a partner at jones day law firm. thanks for joining me. trump is not happy about the process in colorado. he said, the people of colorado had their vote taken away from them by phony politicians. biggest story in politics. this will not be allowed. he was basically outdone on the ground by the cruz cam in colorado. how do you think that message resonates for the next contest, for prit marry cothe primary cow york where he currently dominates in the polling? s. >> i think the candidates are trying to get voters excited, trying to get them to vote for

them. donald trump talking about the votes will play well in his home state of new york. >> when we think about getting to next tuesday out of the primary here and down the road to april 26, we have primaries all the way down to maryland. we think about the coalescing of the delegates need to do get to 1237 at the convention? we know the new convention manager title to help him gain control of that convention. i was speaking with somebody today who has some very unique knowledge about the convention coming up with cleveland, and they said they were excited at the fact that typically a nominee would have more influence at a certain point in this, but they don't know who that nominee is going to be. do you think that provides a glass half full scenario or glass half empty scenario for the gop? >> i think it's going to be very tough for the campaigns to have enough time to put their imprint

on the convention. if you don't have a winner until june 7 and the convention starts on july 18, that's 40 days. in the romney campaign in 2012 and most of the previous ones, the nominee, and it was a clear nominee, had three, three and a half months to do it. that's a daunting task. i think that it is a logistical problem but also an opportunity to put together something as massive as this convention that quickly. why it's a great opportunity is that there's obviously more interest than usual. it may even be that network television covers more than an hour a night, there is so much interest in it. so while there may be some chaos on the floor, there's also the opportunity to present republican views and show how we can come together in one message to win the fall campaign.

>> so it was earlier today that andrea mitchell spoke to someone who knows paul manafort, the convention manager for trump. we should also note he is supporting kasich. here's what he had to say about manafort. >> i know paul manafort. i like him. i consider him a friend. i think he's one of the smartest things donald trump has done. if paul manafort could ruthlessly exploit these rules in his favor, he would not hesitate for one second. >> do you think it's a double-edged sword, ben, for donald trump to cry foul about the system but also have such an insider as paul manafort homing his effort to get through the convention? >> sounds smart and pragmatic to me. you do need somebody like paul to be able to run your convention operation. that makes a lot of sense. and as i said, the messaging that donald trump is using is, i think, directed directly at his supporters to get them enthusiastic about voting for him in new york.

i think all the candidates are doing similar versions of that. >> ben ginsberg. ben, great to see you. appreciate it. thanks for talking with us. >> thanks, thomas. coming up, clinton and sanders swinging hard on guns and wall street. they both think they have home advantage in new york, but which candidate has the roots to win here next tuesday? we'll talk about both candidates' campaigns, next. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ♪ her longngay as anne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when...

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every progressive economist, b barney frank, they all said, i have a plan that works. bernie sanders couldn't even answer questions about his plan.

>> hillary clinton drawing a contrast in queens between herself and bernie sanders. we're in new york in schorarie county. for the democrats, 291 total delegates in play. the following week, five northeastern states all hold primaries on april 26, but today hillary clinton and bernie sanders have a total of five events around the state. at this hour, as we showed you at the top of this show, bernie sanders is holding a rally in upstate new york, his second one today. hillary clinton just wrapped up an event on long island where she spoke about gun violence, and we have reporters following both those campaigns. msnbc's kasie hunt is with the sanders camp, and alex seitz-wald is following the clinton campaign. alex, i'll go to you, because the big question has always been about the back and forth between clinton and sanders about gun control.

whaelts t what's the contrast she's drawing today? >> reporter: well, thomas, she took a shot on sanders about guns. no surprise there. it was an issue she went after him on way back in iowa. now what she's doing in new york is focusing on the new york state area, the five burroughs. the monmouth university poll just showed her 51% over bernie sanders at 39. as we know, he tends to do better with white voters. she's doing better in the city which she tends to do better with non-white voters. in the city, gun control much more of an issue, and she took kind of a personal shot on sanders and guns, looking at his state of vermont. take a look at what she said. >> when challenged on his gun stances, he frequently says, well, you know i represent vermont. it's a small, rural state. we have no gun laws. here's what i want you to know.

most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in new york come from out of state. and the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in new york come from vermont. >> reporter: and thomas, i think also what she's trying to do there, both of these candidates have claims to the state of new york, bernie sanders born there, hillary clinton representing them in the senate. she is kind of pushing him off to vermont saying, i'm looking after new york. he is in vermont which is not looking out for us. thomas? >> everybody is trying to claim the deeper roots here, even donald trump on the right. she's going not only after bernie sanders, but donald trump on the right as well, assuming he's the nominee. what's the new ad about? >> reporter: we're fighting a two-front war here, one with

bernie sanders and one with donald trump. she is really trying to position herself as the strongest democratic nominee to go up against donald trump in november, kind of using the crucible of the new york primary to see who would be toughest in new york. let's take a look at that ad there. >> it's wrong, and it goes against everything new york and america stand for. >> with so much at stake, she's the one tough enough to stop trump. hillary clinton. >> i'm hillary clinton and i approve this message. >> reporter: there you go, tough enough to stop trump. earlier today in a gaggle with reporters, she said sanders has withered under the spotlight, all trying to get across that she's the strongest nominee. >> alex, thanks so much. we'll go to our colleague, msnbc's kasie hunt. kasie is at that rally in albany, not too far from me. how much of this is a challenge for bernie from brooklyn,

especially with the state being a closed primary coming up next tuesday with voters? >> reporter: hi, thomas. bernie sanders is relying very much on those new york voters. he's got an ad and he's talked about it across the stump in the city and now across upstate new york where he is spending the day. the new york primary absolutely critical for him, which he came pretty close to acknowledging today. take a look. >> my request to all of you is not only come out and vote, bring your friends and your family and your coworkers. [ cheers and applause ] >> and if we can win here in new york state, i believe we are on our way to the white house. >> reporter: so, of course, the tricky part for sanders is, as you mentioned, the fact that this is a closed primary.

he's had much more trouble in states where only democrats are allowed to vote in the democratic primary. and frankly, his operation was a little bit behind in getting here in time to meet some of these deadlines, particularly last fall when anybody who was either registered with another party or may be registered independent, if you didn't change your registration back in october to be a democrat, you can't vote on tuesday in the democratic primary. so people who are new voters have a little bit of an easier time because the deadline to sign up there was march, at the end of march. the sanders campaign a little more luck there, but even just walking around in this rally, talking to people, there are a significant number who, yes, are registered democrats and plan to vote on tuesday. but i talked to several people who said, you know, i went in, i tried. i really tried, but it turned out i missed the deadline to do this and i'm not going to be able to. i talked to a couple college kids who said they themselves were registered, but they had friends who couldn't. so that's the challenge for

sanders going into tuesday, thomas. >> i think a lot of people in new york didn't realize if they wanted to change their party affiliate they needed to do so six weeks ago. kasie hunt, nice to see you. as trump campaigns in irvine, california, we're going to take you to staten island to see what new york values are really like. ♪ ♪ only those who dare drive the world forward. introducing the first-ever cadillac ct6. burning of diabetic nerve pain, these feet were the first in my family to graduate from college and trained as a nurse. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer.

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and urinary tract infections which may be serious. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. so talk to your doctor, and for more information, visit jardiance.com so staten island is the least populated of new york's five burroughs, but it also has the distinction of being the city's most conservative burrough. there are 85,000 republicans potentially voting there next tuesday, and this is where we find msnbc national correspondent joy reed. joy, i know you've had an opportunity to speak with voters there on staten island. what are they saying about the election? who do they like? >> reporter: hey, thomas, for the most part we're seeing lots of support for donald trump, particularly here at mike's

unicorn diner. we've been talking to voters really throughout the morning and we're finding some of the people who like donald trump might not actually be able to vote for him. take a listen to chris who we talked to earlier this morning. >> the reason i picked donald trump is i feel that all the candidates, they say things they don't mean. if they don't come from new york, they have no right to say anything negative about new york. i am registered democrat, but if i feel that a republican is better, you know. >> reporter: you vote by the candidate, not the party? >> absolutely. >> reporter: now, thomas, here is where -- now, thomas, here is where process actually comes into play. staten island, of course, is the reddest of the five burroughs in manhattan, but of the 280,000 registered voters here, only about 29% are actually republicans, 49% are democrats. by comparison that's very, very red because manhattan, brooklyn,

queens are 70 to 78% democrat. it's a lot of democrats like the woman we spoke to. how many that actually want to vote for trump have switched their registration to republican by the deadline? even donald trump's two children, his two youngest kids, didn't switch their registration. so what happens to those reagan democrats here in staten island who like donald trump but cannot vote for him? well, kristin's answer may not surprise you. she will vote for bernie sanders when she gets there. >> if they feel frozen out, they're going to go somewhere else. joy, thanks so much. we want to check in now, as joy mentioned, to the burrough of queens. it's just outside new york city. it's also a hyperdiverse section of new york city. it's made up of mostly foreign

born residents. cal perry has been talking to the voters there and also had a run-in with secretary clinton not that long ago. cal, good afternoon. >> reporter: thomas, how are you? clinton came just around that corner to an indian restaurant. to give you an idea, a lot of the restaurants here, south asian. in this area of jackson heights that maybe may be 60%, so huge implications. we talked to the organizer. we talked about a variety of issues. first is the impact the election will have here in this community. >> because you have different messages on the political spectrum, would you say people are more motivated for this election than they have been in the past? >> i think the question in people's minds is how is the next president going to impact my life? for immigrants, they're seeing

that their lives are going to be tremendously impacted whoever gets elected. on the one hand, we have the chance of finally getting comprehensive immigration reform through. on the other hand, we might see mass deportations, right, or at least the attempt of mass deportations. >> reporter: a lot of people are talking about that, that double-edged sword, that maybe if hillary clinton or bernie sanders are elected t might be a way forward for people here in the united states. on the flip side of the coin is donald trump. a lot of people fearful of the rhetoric he's using. a lot of people in this neighborhood still undocumented. that's a major concern. they'll they may not be able to vote, but it doesn't mean they won't be watching closely, thomas. donald trump is accusing the republican party of abusing the

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donald trump is now making his complaints about the delegate system in the gop primary just a regular old part of an almost stump speech. despite those complaints, msnbc analysis finds that same system is giving trump a boost. legal correspondent ari melbur dug through the primary numbers and joined us to explain. if it ain't broke, why does trump want it fixed? >> reporter: that's a great question, thomas, and we'll show exactly what's going on. trump saying this is a broken and crooked system, but actually, we can show he's only won 37% of the total primary vote. that's everyone who has voted in this cycle on the republican side. but look at this. 45%, a much higher share of the delegates. so he's getting a boost. let's compare that to ted cruz who is not getting as much of a frontrunner boost. he has 28% of total votes cast

in the republican primary today, and his actual delegate hold is 32%. bottom line, real simple here, the way the delegates are allotted under party rules, they give a boost to the frontrunner. donald trump getting basically 20% more of the delegate share than the voter share, which is important. yet he is complaining. here's something that he said in a rally in new york questioned yesterday. >> i've won twice as much as cruz, i've won millions and millions of votes. the system is corrupt. and it's worse on the republican side. because i'm up millions of votes on cruz, millions. i don't mean i'm up by two votes, i'm up millions and millions of votes. >> reporter: he talks about being up millions and millions of votes and says twice as much as cruz. we crunched all the numbers and this is the current accounting.

trump with 2.2 milli-- 8.2 mill cruz with 6.2. just like memories of florida, people saying how big is the gap? what is too big for those delegates to potentially overturn who is in the lead? when you talk about the pressure on the delegates and this whole fight, then you have paul manafort, the new convention manager for donald trump. in our own personal interview is chuck todd, our first sunday interview, and he's now accusing cruz folks to use tactics in upping their delegate numbers. here's that. >> what is fair game to win a delegate? is tles tlhreatening fair game? >> it's not my style, it's not donald trump's style. it is ted cruz's style. >> you think he's threatening delegates? >> you go to the stoppo tactics.

>> that's a strong word. >> reporter: nobody would be talking about any of this if they didn't think it mattered. what we're seeing is a rounding up of this immortalizing. all of this could be stopped with delegates in cleveland. >> beth has followed politics extensively in new york state. beth, let's talk about new york specifically, the fact this is a closed primary. azhs ari breaks down the millio of votes, the difference between cruz and trump, hillary clinton has also made that comparison between her and bernie sanders. talk about what effect that could have on sanders? >> hillary clinton is favored in new york for a number of reasons,en the least of which is

democrats can vote in this primary. sanders has gotten a lot of democrats. he is not a democrat. it's a point hillary clinton likes to make over and over. so when you really screen for only democrats being allowed to vote, hillary clinton does typically much, much better, and new york with its many, many delegates, 291, is a closed primary state. >> clinton also does better with the diverse communities, with the african-american communities. is that a big chunk of her support in new york as well? >> yeah. new york city, as we know, is the most diverse city in the country. it's the most densely populated city in the country filled with people of color. she will typically do very, very well with african-americans, probably older african-americans and people of latino descent. again, older. the younger folks are skewing a little more to bernie sanders, as white people are as well. so bernie sanders is really hoping for a good turnout among college campuses.

he was on the state campus of burlington, today, he's going to albany, poughkeepsie tomorrow which a couple colleges. he's really playing the college set. hillary clinton, on the other hand, was with diverse voters. she was at a black church on sunday as well as her husband bill clinton. she's going to those communities in upper state new york, syracuse, places that were hard hit by the economy. she's popular with those places because she served in the senate for eight years and folks there know her. >> also she was able to secure the new york primary over then-senator obama. as we look at the fox news poll, it has clinton leading by 16 points in new york. >> i think it's very telling, for example, after the debate the two of them do in brooklyn on thursday night, he's hopping on a plane and going to the vatican. he's spending a couple days off the campaign trail.

he's going to be in rome talking about climate change. he's very excited about that, but it's also an exciting time for him to escape new york and he can talk about something close to his heart, climate change. there's a lot of catholic voters in new york, but it takes them off the campaign trail. where they spend their time is a dem demarcation of how they take the state, and if he's out of the state a couple days, it's a problem for him. from washington to maryland in the five northeastern states, they'll be voting in the primary. a lot of catholics there. so we'll see if there is a vatican bump from going to rome. an msnbc exclusive. the head of the cia taking a hard lump on torture tactics like waterboarding.

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never again. in an exclusive interview with nbc news cia cia director john brennan says the agency will not engage in any harsh interrogation practices, even if a future president orders the agency to do so. this issue has been thrust back into the national spotlight during the campaign for the white house, with the top republican candidates having said they are open to the use of waterboarding in the fight against terrorism. i want to bring in richard engel, nbc news chief foreign correspondent, who interviewed director brennan. richard, what did you learn from this interaction? especially about the part, even if a future president were to order them to do this? >> so i was at the cia headquarters this weekend, interviewing director brennan for a variety of subjects and we were talking abouts the policy against isis and counterterrorism and the legacy of the cia and their successes and failures, and in the course of this conversation, he said

that one of the things, one of the lessons they've learned from the past were about these harsh interrogations, so-called enhanced the interrogations. and those practices were stopped, they were banned by president obama, and he said that they're not coming back. which opened the door to the question, well, what about the political candidates, in particular, trump, who says not only will he bring them back, he says he wants to do more than waterboarding. and director brennan said that the cia is effectively out of that business, is not going to open that door again. and won't do it. >> so, richard, when we think about the idea of the next president coming in, and say it were a cruz or a trump, and running on a platform of that rhetoric, what is the type of influence that a future president could use to overturn anything that president obama did and try to clear that with a person like a director brennan?

>> i think that's why these comments are quite significant. because when donald trump is promising that he's going to have these practices reinstated, who's going to do it? the cia is saying, it's not going to do it. and one could think, well, maybe the future president, a president trump or another person, could order the cia to do it. but a number of legal roadblocks have been put in place. it's been specifically made illegal. there have been amendments that have been proposed. there have been commissions that have been done. so it would be extraordinarily difficult to -- and now we have this public dissent. it would be extraordinarily difficult for a future president to overturn that ban and try to force the cia or another organization to get back into the business of torture. >> and richard, did director brennan give any indication of where we are in the current

practices used, in the fight against terrorism, and what's working and what's not? >> that was part of our longer discussion and we'll be hearing more on that in the days to come. but we talked about isis and how the cia has done a great job collecting intelligence, finding individual isis leaders, capturing them when possible, taking them off the battle field or killing them when capture is not possible. but, there are also some real hard conclusions that need to be drawn. there are many safe havens out there. there are probably numerically more terrorists on -- in the world now than there were several years ago. but he insisted, despite that, despite the proliferation of terrorists, that he thinks the united states, as a country, is safer than it was, than it was before. >> richard engel, i know you'll have much more with the cia director brennan this evening on

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that's going to wrap things up for this hour. i'm thomas roberts. thanks for your time. coming up next, vice president joe biden in an interview with mike.com says he would like to see a woman elected president. kate snow will have more on that. and much more when she picks up our coverage on msnbc live in brooklyn, new york. it's time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. kevin atkinson says his customers aren't always right. the owner of garbage company texas pride disposal in rosenberg, texas, says he won't blame his team every time a complaint comes in, which is why he sets his customer service bar so high. for more, watch "your business"

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brooklyn, new york. this state, as you probably know by now, holding a critical primary for both parties on april 19th. that's a week from tuesday. just look at the map today. candidates are flooding the zone. donald trump, john kasich, hillary clinton, bernie sanders, all holding campaign events in new york state today. but not ted cruz. he actually took off for california in search of some much-needed delegates, when that state votes in june. and some news happening this hour. vice president joe biden telling mike news that he would like to see a woman elected president. we'll have more on that in just a bit. all the talk today, who has the delegates? and is the system fair? donald trump again today saying the nominating process is rigged and crooked. let's start with a scene this weekend in colorado, where they wrapped up their selection of republican delegates without any voters actually weighing in. colorado's republican party chose to hold a -- not a primary, not a caucus, but instead to have a state convention. the cruz campaign swept 34 of

colorado's delegates, and as you would expect, trump was not happy about the outcome. >> what kind of a system is this? now, i'm an outsider, and i came into the system, and i'm winning the votes by millions of votes. but the system is rigged, it's crooked. when you look even at bernie, i'm not a fan of bernie, but every time i turn on your show, bernie wins, bernie wins, bernie wins. yet, bernie's not winning. >> trump is also tweeting, the people of colorado had their vote taken away from them by the phony politicians. biggest story in politics, this will not be allowed. and on the democratic side, bernie sanders won the wyoming caucus over the weekend. 56% to 44%. but because of the state's super delegates, clinton ended up with 11 delegates and sanders with 7 delegates. so here's where we stand, with all those weekend results factored in, hillary clinton and donald trump are still on top when you look at the delegate boards. and with the focus now on new york and other delegate-rich states, the upcoming primaries

heavily favor the democratic and gop front-runners. msnbc's steve kornacki has been following all the numbers. he's got the delegate breakdown for us, steve? >> kate, that's right. let's take a look on the republican side. you just pulled it up. here we go, after everything that happened in colorado, ted cruz has been inching closer here to donald trump. he had wisconsin last week, you have colorado. the gap falling to about 200. a little more than 200 separating cruz and trump. that's the good news for cruz. that's the good news for the stop-trump forces. the bad news is this. this race is about to shift to territory that looks very friendly to donald trump. as friendly as anything we've seen this primary season. so trump has 7:56 right now. remember, the total he needs to get that first ballot nomination, 12:37. where do we go from here? well, look at this. this is, first of all, you're going to have new york. new york's the next contest up. 95 delegates up for grabs in new york. the way the delegate rules work there, if donald trump gets the kind of win in new york that the polls are suggesting he's going to get, he could take 85 of

those 90 delegates. he could take maybe even more than 85 of those 95. then you go a week later. the mid-atlantic, the northeast. check this out. delaware's a winner-take-all state. looks very good for trump right now. maryland is a state that does a lot by congressional district. but you look at it, trump could take 32 of those 38 in maryland. pennsylvania's a wild card. this is the interesting thing here in pennsylvania. 17 to the statewide winner. then you see this 54. what are these 54? these 54 are unbound delegates. they're men and women who are running for delegates. their names will appear on the ballot. 54 of them will be elected to the republican convention. they will be free agents at the convention. they could vote for anybody they want. that's the good news, maybe, for the stop-trump forces. they say, hey, donald trump could win the state, but 54 of the delegates could be unbound. we could pick them off at the convention. they could stop trump. the problem for them is this. most of those 54 unbound delegates, the people running,

most of them are now saying they will honor the result in their congressional district. if donald trump were to win their congressional district, they're saying right now, they would vote for him at the convention. that's what they're saying, they could change their minds, but there's also polling out of pennsylvania that has donald trump well ahead, more than 2 to 1. so there could be an awful lot of pressure on most or all of those 54 to go with donald trump. that could significantly beef up his total. that's key in this battle for 1237 delegates. also connecticut, trump could take 20 there. he could take 10 from rhode island. if you don't count those unbound delegates from pennsylvania, he could walk away with 100 more that day. and that would move his total to about 945 at the end of this month. if you added in a bunch of unbound delegates from pennsylvania, he could be pushing 1,000. after that, this race would move. you have new jersey still to come. that's winner take all. trump could get 51 there. the west coast, opportunities in california, washington, oregon. bottom line, kate, is this

thing's gotten tighter in the last week, because of what happened in wisconsin. what happened in colorado. but the path to donald trump getting 1,237 and avoiding the contested convention, especially when you look at the developments in pennsylvania, the path is still there for him. at least potentially. >> steve, thank goodness for you. walking us through that path. it's a complicated one. appreciate it. >> sure. >> so that's where the delegate count stands right now. those are the numbers. but what about donald trump said today. he's calling it a rigged system, saying the voters should have more power than party leaders. he's complaining that ted cruz is getting an unfair advantage. our chief legal correspondent, ari melber, is over in manhattan at msnbc headquarters as well with a reality check on whether trump is really suffering because of those party rules. ari? >> kate, he is definitely right about one thing. these rules are not democratic. we have them here for you and we'll show you. the thing is, donald trump is actually benefiting the most from how undemocratic they are. here's the total vote.

donald trump has gotten about 37% of all republican votes to date. but how many delegates does he have? what's his share there? boom. it pops all the way up to 45%. in other words, to keep it real simple, he has way more delegates, as a percent, than votes. and that's because these rules that he's currently saying are undemocratic are actually favoring him the most. if you crunch the numbers, as we did, he's basically getting a 22% delegate bonus. now, that's all fair in love and politics, because everyone knew the rules going in, and they do reward front-runners. take a look at ted cruz. 28% is his total vote share. and in delegates, he also has, we'll show it to you, a bonus. he's up to 32% of the delegates, even though that is more than his share. now, what's donald trump saying is? let me show it to you. this was him at a rally yesterday, talking about how he's doing better than cruz. >> i've won twice as much as cruz. i've won millions and millions of votes. the system is corrupt. and it's worse than the republican side.

because i'm up millions of votes on cruz. millions! i don't mean like i'm up by two votes. i'm up millions and millions of votes. >> now, we've done the numbers here. trump is right that he's up by a lot. he is not correct to say he's anywhere near double. here's the, total count. about 8.19 million votes total for trump. whereas cruz, 2.6 million. that is a significant gap. why does that matter? it might not if donald trump clinches among the delegates, what steve was showing, that path. but if he doesn't clinch, you'll hear a lot of debates that say, if you have the popular vote, does that entitle you to win, or is there a runoff at the convention the way some states have a runoff? and this, of course, was a big theme in how people are approaching the delegates. paul manafort, trump's new convention manager, a very interesting exchange with chuck todd on "meet the press" yesterday about this process. take a look. >> what is fair game to win a

delegate? is threatening a fair game? >> it's not my style, it's not donald trump's style. >> what can you -- >> but it has ted cruz's style. and that's going to win thin very fast. >> you think he's threatening delegates? >> well, he's threatening. you go to these conventions and see the tactic, the gestapo tactics, scorched earth tactics. >> gestapo tactics? that's a strong word. >> a strong word. the reason we're seeing this, what happens at the convention, it matters if nobody clinches, the way you approach those delegates, the gaps we're seeing here in the popular vote, all of that will be fair game for a big battle in cleveland. >> and ari, as you look at the rules in the states that are coming up, in new york and those east coast states, do the rules remain the same? in other words, will trump still have, if he wins, that extra bump from being the winner? >> the answer is yes. in new york, for example, he gets that bump every time he takes a congressional district. so if you're the front-runner, you're going to get more

delegates than your raw vote. and that ends where we started. these rules are undemocratic, just like super delegateses are undemocratic. but there is something particularly rich about the front-runner, who's benefited the most from them, complaining about them. >> all right. ari melber back in new york city, thanks so much. coming up, all eyes on new york, except for ted cruz, as the candidates on both sides crisscross new york ahead of next week's primary here. the texas senator is actually holding events in california, where the voters there don't go to the polls for another two months. we'll get to the bottom of all of that after a quick break. mr., my wife and i are now participating in your mutual fund. we invested in your fund to help us pay for a college education for our son. we've enclosed a picture of our son so that you can get a sense there are real people out here trusting you with their hard-earned money. ♪ at fidelity, we don't just manage money, we manage people's money.

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back live from the brooklyn roasting company here in brooklyn, new york. great cup of coffee here. donald trump has an event planned tonight up in albany. while recent polls show him leading big in new york state, a new fox news poll has trump leading john kasich by 32 points. for more on the trump campaign, let me bring in nbc's jacob rascon. he's covering trump up in albany. jacob, what's happening there? >> reporter: hey, kate. we're here outside this arena that's going to fit 17,500 people. we have thousands of people in line that wraps around several blocks. and the trump campaign is telling us that they are -- they had rsvps, more than 23,000 rsvps. it's going to be a crowded area. across the street, we can show you there are some protesters, though, compared to the crowd size that's here to support trump, it's a very small crowd of protesters. all day, trump has been -- we've been playing and re-playing the

sound of him complaining about the corrupt system, he calls it. the voters that we're talking to are very excited about that, because as you might imagine, a lot of the trump voters we talk to here and around the country, are those that have not usually been involved in the political process. in fact, many, many people we talked to have never been to a political event or they've never even voted before or maybe they were voting with the democratic party and they switched over. so this is trump territory. trump country, as the trump team likes to call it. a trump adviser told me this morning, they're very excited about their chances here to get most, if not almost all of the delegates. and that is critical to their path forward, to getting enough delegates to clinch the nomination before the convention, because even the trump team behind the scenes knows that a floor fight there would be difficult, if not impossible to get on the second ballot. kate? >> jacob rascon, downtown albany, watching everything there. jacob, thanks. let's switch over to msnbc's gadi schwartz, covering the cruz

campaign from irvine, california, today. what are we hearing from him after the sweep of colorado delegates this weekend? >> well, kate, he was definitely taking some victory laps in his speech about that colorado victory. he was trying to build up on that momentum, actually calling on people to really organize behind him, trying to build a grassroots network here in california. he's been working at that for a few months, and he was also blasting trump, making fun of him, for basically what happened in colorado. take a listen. >> now in response, donald has been yelling and screaming. >> whining, not winning. >> a lot of whining. i'm sure some cursing. and some late-night, fevered tweeting. all the characteristics, i would

note, we would want of a commander in chief. >> reporter: now, why the emphasis on california? usually california is a state that is completely ignored. because by the time the california primary comes along, a nominee is already, usually, a sure thing. but this year, it looks like everything is up for grabs, and california is the state with the most delegates. 172 delegates. and not only that, but california delegates are extremely loyal the reason why, it's actually the candidates that get to choose most of those delegates that go to the convention. and obviously, they're going to vote for the candidate that sent them there in most cases. that's something to consider in california. it's not a surprise he's here in irvine. irvine, some people call the republican capital of california. definitely the republican capital of southern california. it's a place where there's a lot of influence. there's a lot of big money. it's also, as ted cruz said several times today, the birthplace of the reagan

revolution. that's something that he's trying to hone in on. in fact, we saw some signs in the crowd today that said that ted cruz is the candidate, the ronald reagan candidate of this cycle. so definitely a message that he's trying to send, and at least some people here seem very reseptemberiiceptive to that? >> and you could read it as a lot of hope he has in california, or you could see it as losing hope in new york. are they giving up on new york state? >> reporter: well, that's a very good question. everybody else is in new york. he is already here in california. it's almost like the movie, "moneyball". it seems like he is playing a very strategic game, trying to figure out where that campaign can go and get the most for their money. and get the most for these appearances. so california, with 172 delegates, and clearly, what may be a contested convention, he thinks that spending time here in california and trying to shore up some of this base, may

help propel him forward is a good investment of his time. while trump is obviously new york, complaining about how the system may be rigged. kate? >> politics and baseball intersecting. thanks so much. joining me now, josh crosshauer. nice to see you, josh. >> good to be here, kate. >> so we're going to switch gears big-time here. because you write not about new york or about all the east coast states that are about to vote the week after new york, pennsylvania, maryland, delaware, connecticut, rhode island, you're talking about indiana. why are you talking about indiana on may 3rd? >> well, let's talk a little "moneyball." outside of new york and california, where your two correspondents just were, india has the third most pledged delegates behind new york and california, going forward. it's a big delegate prize. and it's also a state trump can win and it's a state that john

kasich could do well in, as well. it's a blue-collar state. it has a very blue-collar working class republican electorate. and that should play to donald trump's advantages. but it also has that midwestern niceness, and we found in a lot of those states like iowa and wisconsin, donald trump doesn't do as well in those battleground states. it's a true bellwether, and i think whoever wins indiana is going to have an inside track at winning that republican nomination. >> you compare it to wisconsin and the sort of anti-trump fever that exists the there, too. we were looking up quotes about indiana today. craig dunn, a local republican leader in indiana, he's running to represent indiana's fourth congressional district at the national convention. he said, quote, if satan had the lead on him, on trump, and was one delegate away from being nominated as our candidate and donald trump was the alternative, i might vote for donald trump. so that's what you're talking about with an anti-trump sentiment. could that consolidate there the

way it did in wisconsin? >> it definitely could. there is an establishment sentiment that would favor ted cruz in indiana. but you also have to contrast it with wisconsin, because scott walker played such a pivotal role for ted cruz in the final couple weeks of that wisconsin campaign. and the two big republicans in indiana, governor mike pence, is on the ballot, and he does not want to alienate either the trump republicans or the cruz republicans. and the other big indiana republican is mitch daniels, who is thinking about a presidential run of his own, four years ago. he's now president at purdue university. he's been staying out of political partisanship and staying out of politics. so he's unlikely to weigh in. so trump, if there's a vacuum of establishment support for cruz, it is something that trump could take advantage of. you know, and win with about 40% of the vote in a split field. >> and i got to ask, what about john kasich? he's the governor of the state next door, of ohio. could he make some kind of last-second bid for indiana?

>> he probably would be smarter, spending more time in indiana than camping out in new york, where donald trump has such a big lead. and i know there are a lot of delegates at state in new york, but john kasich should be doing really well in indiana. it's right next-door, kate. there are a lot of districts that would be perfect for john kasich to do well in. and john kasich hasn't won a single delegate since he won march 15th. if he wanted to put some delegates on the board, he would be wise to look at indiana as a real opportunity. >> josh crosshauer with the "national journal," always good to talk to you. thanks so much. >> thanks, kate. across the break, we'll take you across the bridge to new york's most conservative borough, that would be staten island. what do new york value s look like there? it added this other level of clean to it. it just kinda like...wiped everything clean. 6x cleaning my teeth are glowing. they are so white.

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the ohio governor is spending next week in the state ahead of primary here. kasich is in upstate new york today, where he's already had several campaign stops. he has another one scheduled a little more than an hour from now. recent polls showing kasich moving ahead of rival ted cruz here in new york, but still far behind front-runner donald trump. nbc's kelly o'donnell is following the kasich campaign. kelly, today he's been focused on the cruz campaign tactics, right? >> well, to a degree. when he was asked about that, and we'll show you a clip of that in a moment. but if i could, i want to share with you a little bit about what was different about this town hall. i've been lots to them with john kasich. i was struck by a couple of things. first, the audience that was here just a short time ago began with a standing ovation. that typically does not happen. there was a voter who said, don't drop out. we see that more and more. and then there was a transgender woman who asked a question, of the many questions that were asked, about lbgt rights and what would his position be? and he went off on a long riff

about a couple of things. first of all, we know in the news, there have been some states looking at issues like what bathrooms in public spaces can transgender people use? john kasich was saying, let's not have more laws. let's try to get along. let's not look at ways to divide people, and let people just live. kind of a libertarian streak. then he veered into gay marriage and said, he's a traditional marriage guy. but now that the supreme court has made gay marriage the law of the land, he said, let's not fight about a bakery that might not to serve someone or not want to provide a cake for their wedding. those kinds of things. a very moderate position, while at the same time saying, personally, he prefers traditional marriage, as an example. that got a very warm reception here. now, on to the tactical things of this campaign season, we know tactics could really decide it all at the end. in terms of delegates, so earlier today, in a q&a with reporters, we asked the governor about what's been happening with some elbows being thrown with operatives from each campaign,

trump, cruz, and kasich over how to secure delegates and this is what he told us. >> cruz people tried to take all the delegates. we're out there interested in making sure we win delegates and we peek at people on important committees, and it happened in that case, from what i understand, that there was cooperation between us and the trump people. but let's not read more into it than what it is. this is not a precedent-setting deal or something you can expect. there is no deal and there will never be a deal. >> reporter: and so, what he's saying is his operatives might work with donald trump's team in a given situation. he was referring to michigan and putting people on a rules committee. critical kind of role that could decide how things happen later on. there will be so much strategizing and state-by-state cases. but he didn't want people to think there would be some alliance between trump and kasich. but we might see some of those variations over time, where

operatives who are trying to make the best case for their candidate strike deals or work against each other try to get as many delegates to back their candidate when we get to the convention. kate? >> kelly, i don't know if you could hear the guest right before the break from the "national journal," was talking about indiana and maybe kasich should be spending more time in indiana and less time kind of dwelling on new york. what would the campaign say about that? >> reporter: well, they believe that getting a second place here in new york, a huge state, would be very, very important. first of all, it would blunt some of the pro-ted cruz support from other kind of dimensions of the party, whether it be establishment or the unity push behind ted cruz. and he's been doing things like being in albany, sarasota springs, new york city, trying to hit all of the media markets in new york state to get as much attention as possible. they think looking at new york, pennsylvania, northeast republicans matter for them. so right now, it's the next one up. so that's why they're focused so much on new york.

they believe the time here can be well spent. and in part because of the huge megaphone that all new new york media has, that could extend beyond the borders here. kate? >> kelly o'donnell, covering the kasich campaign. kelly, thanks so much. now let's head over to staten island. it's new york city's least populated bureau of the five, but it is the most conservative. it's where we find msnbc's joy reid. joy, what are you hearing? >> reporter: hi, kate. well, we have talked to lots of different voters here at mike's unicorn diner here in staten island. we have talked to pro-trump voters, the majority of the voters we've talked to are pro-trump. we meat a ted cruz supporter and one trump neighbor earlier today. one of the things we have not met was an undecided voter, but we found one for you now. and let's talk really quickly to bruce. bruce and his friend andy have been here talking about the election here this afternoon. bruce, you're undecided. what issues matter the most to you as you're trying to make this decision? >> the issues that matter most

to me is that we are -- the veterans, especially vietnam veterans that are in our mid-60s and higher, we're not sure about our awards, our disability benefits, the cuts in the v.a., this is something that is going to affect hundreds of thousands of people and what we hear is that the government is cutting back on all these health care services, which is affecting not only us, but our families and so on. what i would also like to say is that i think what -- how i feel about the government is that it's time for a clean sweep. an honest clean sweep. >> yeah. and you were saying earlier that donald trump appeals to you a little bit. and tell me sort of what was your pros and cons about druona trump? >> because he cannot be bought

out. his word is his bond. i think he didn't become who he is because he wasn't a man of his word. i think he's a brilliant -- a very brilliant man when it comes to financial buying and selling companies and i think if anyone, financially, could get our country back on its feet, i think it would be mr. donald trump. >> okay. it sounds like bruce is getting a little bit less undecided. i want to now go over to andy. andy has been stalwartly donald trump since we got here. andy actually votes in new jersey. we'll talk about that in a second. but why are you for donald trump? >> because he's talking what i want to hear and most people who are americans want to hear. want to bring back america the way it was, bring illegals, come home, come back to the front door, come back. you're welcome to come to america, but you have to come in here legally. >> so immigration is a big thing? >> it's a big thing. there's a lot of money being

spent on immigration, because of the fact they get schooling, medical, they get welfare, they're getting food stamps. they can get everything -- we have american people who are living in cardboard boxes. >> reporter: and very quickly, kate, if i can go back to bruce for one second. new york is a closed primary state. both of these gentleman actually register democrat. you get if that ballot box, into that voting booth. you can't vote for donald trump because you're getting a democratic ballot, now what do you do? who do you think you'll go for between bernie and hillary? >> i would absolutely, without even having to think about it, i would have to go with bernie. >> very interesting. >> and it's very, it's very plain, i think that clinton and her husband, who was president, bill clinton, i think that there would be too many secrets that knowledge that bill clinton had, would be passed to his wife. which is unsavory and it's under

the table type of politics which i don't like. >> all right. well, kate, as you can see, lots of political discussion going on here. for democrats in staten island, and we have met more than one that are for donald trump, they're going to have a challenge when they get into that voting booth, because they'll get a democratic ballot. what we're finding these democratic voters that are for trump, they seem to be going for bernie sanders. and andy in new jersey, that is also a closed primary, but unaffiliated voters have until mid-may to actually affiliate with a party and they can actually, if they're unaffiliated, go into the voting is booth and make a decision on which ballot they take. very complicated, but those rules and that organization by these campaigns is going to be really important. back to you, kate. >> yeah, it is. and joy, i was wondering whether your first voter there will just not go to the primary. just skip over the primary and try to show up at the general for trump. >> reporter: you know what, i will -- i can ask these guys, both. listen, if you guys can't vote for trump in the primary, if you're not able because you're

not affiliated with the democratic party, would you guys potentially skip the primary at all, kate's asking? >> that's a definite possibility. absolutely, yes. yes. >> what about you, andy? >> yes, i would. >> you could skip the primary and wait for the general? >> wait for the election. >> wow. >> all right. there you go, kate. there you have it. the dilemma, i think for the trump campaign is that staten island, while it's the most red county, it's still 45% democratic and 29% republican. they would have needed to have done some organizing on the ground to have people meet that october deadline to become republicans to vote for him and a lot of people do want to vote for him. >> joy reid, thanks so much out in staten island today. coming up, what joe biden had to say about the democratic presidential candidates that sounded a bit like an endorsement. and just ahead at 5:00 eastern, in less than half an hour, chris matthews will have brand-new nbc polling numbers out of new york. you'll want to stay for that.

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welcome back. we're live from brooklyn, new york. did vice president joe biden just make an endorsement for president before he said he would do that? here's what he just said to mike news. >> there's no problem. we're going to be able to elect a woman in this country. >> would you like to see us elect a woman? >> i would like to see a woman elected. >> that's it. >> no, no, no. that's all right. i would like to see. i don't mind any -- i'm not getting into that -- >> i would like to ask one more question. >> the president and i are not going to endorse, because we both when we ran said, let the party decide. but, gosh almighty, they're both qualified. hillary is overwhelmingly qualified to be president. >> our campaign experts are standing by. we've got msnbc's kasie hunt, traveling with the bernie sanders campaign and msnbc's alex seitz-wald covering the clinton camp. he joins us first from washington, d.c. alex, that sure sounded like a bit of an endorsement. >> yeah, kate. he came pretty close, saying

that he would like to see a woman elected president. of course, he could be speaking generally, but when you have a woman who is likely to be the democratic nominee, he is a democrat. it seems pretty close. now, both he and president obama have said they won't endorse during the primary. they want to leave it up to the voters. but they have kind of made some noises that suggests that they do favor clinton and a lot of their former aides have gone and worked for hillary clinton's campaign. one thing i want to call your attention to. you heard his aides interrupt him there in the middle of his remarks. it could be read as, you know, they're jumping in to try to stop him before he went too far into endorsing, and then he did caught himself. i just spoke with joe biden's office and they told me it was purely about time, that they had allotted ten minutes for the interview, they went over time. but i'm guessing you're going to see a lot of people question that, whether it was people trying to prevent biden from doing a joe biden thing, which is sometimes get a little bit over his skis in what he likes to say. >> i can't tell you how many interviews i've done, alex, where suddenly, the aide says,

um, we've got to go. we've got to go now, right when something gets a little touchy. i did want to ask about one other thing that happened today. hillary clinton was out on long island. she was in port washington, new york. and she was talking about gun control and what bernie sanders has had to say about guns and his home state of vermont. take a listen. when challenged on his gun stances, he frequently says, well, you know, i represent vermont. it's a strong, rural state. we have no gun laws. here's what i want you to know. most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in new york come from out of state. and the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in new york

come from vermont. >> the tone there, alex, is kind, but i'm guessing that's a point we're going to hear her make again and again, and probably on thursday night at the debate. >> absolutely, kate. and i think she's trying to do a couple of things there with that comment. number one, obviously, talk about guns. that's been a big issue and a big contrast with her this entire campaign with bernie sanders, a place that she can get to his left and sort of be a more pure progressive, which has always been his strength. but also, with two candidates who are claiming new york as home state territory. you know, bernie sanders born there, hillary clinton represented in the senate. she's kind of drawing a line and putting him up in vermont, saying he's, you know, with the state that's sending guns down here, while she's saying she's the one looking out for new york values, which, you know, new york city, especially, a lot of interest in gun control and a lot of support for gun control. that's reflected in this new monmouth poll that just came out this afternoon, showing her much stronger in the city, and him stronger upstate. i suspect you can hear a lot

about guns, kate. >> alex seitz-wald who's been covering the clinton kpacampaig for us. let's turn now to kasie hunt, she was at the bernie sanders rally that just ended outside of new york. what did you hear there? >> reporter: this state of crucial importance to bernie sanders and he's added a message here in upstate new york on fracking, contrasting himself with hillary clinton, who hasn't said she would support an all-out ban on fracking, but rather that it should be case by case. he's using that to appeal to liberal voters. upstate new york, a place where bernie sanders, if anything, has an edge, especially among white working class voters and students. we talked to a lot of students today, from albany, which is where we are. but bernie sanders explicitly acknowledging the importance of new york for his campaign. take a look. >> when we come tomorrow on april 19th, there is going to be

a very, very important democratic primary. and what i have learned in this campaign so far is we win when the voter turnout is high. we lose when it is low. let us next week have the highest voter turnout in the history of the state. >> the challenge for sanders, of course, that even if turnout is high, only registered democrats allowed to vote in the new york primary. and of course, the deadline to register for that, if you're a new voter, was in late march. if you are somebody who needed to switch your party affiliation away from independent or if you changed parties entirely, you had to do that all the way back in october. and there are some questions about whether or not the sanders' campaign was organizing aggressively enough to take advantage of that. and we talked to a whole bunch of attendees here at this rally. many of them did say, yes, i'm a registered democrat, i'm going

to vote on tuesday. but a lot said, i missed this deadline or that deadline for one reason or another. i talked to one gentleman who said, i'm not going to be able to vote for bernie sanders, soy gave him money instead. the reality is sanders is able to keep pace on the fund-raising side, but host going to need those votes on tuesday, kate? >> yeah, kasie, i don't know if you could hear joy reid a few minutes ago, but it's interesting. she's in staten island and was talking to a couple of democrats who are registered democrats who really like trump and they want to vote for trump, but they can't and they probably won't show up for the primary, but would vote for sanders if they showed up to actually vote. so it's an issue on that side of things, too. >> that's right, kate, and you know, we've talked a lot over time about, you know, whether or not there is crossover between sanders supporters and potentially trump supporters. i actually talked to -- i found an undecided voter at a bernie sanders rally, which is harder than you might think. but i talked to a young man and he said that he might actually go across the street to the trump rallies, just a few blocks

away, later tonight. they're anticipating potentially tens of thousands of people. they've had 23,000 rsvps. but he said, you know what, the most important thing to me about bernie sanders is that he speaks to working class values. i come from a working class family and i'm considering donald trump as well. >> interesting stuff. casie hundredth following bernie sanders up in albany. thanks so much. up next, we head over to queens, new york, where nearly half of the residents are foreign born. we'll hear from voters on what they're looking for in a president, up next. it's more than a network and the cloud. it's reliable uptime. and multi-layered security. it's how you stay connected to each other and to your customers. with centurylink you get advanced technology solutions, including an industry leading broadband network, and cloud and hosting services - all with dedicated, responsive support. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner, you're free to focus on growing your business.

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a little geography. we're in the borough of brooklyn, fewer than six miles from me is the borough of queens, which is not only the largest borough in new york city, it's also the most diverse. almost half of the queens population is made up of foreign-born residents. msnbc's cal perry is over in queens, talking to community organizers about the upcoming primary here. cal, what do you hear? >> reporter: hey, kate. so in this area, 60% actually identify themselves as immigrants. and we're here, sort of chatting with people as they get off the subway. the 7 train will be rattling past shortly. certainly for people outside new york, it rattles for people inside new york, it's a soothing sound. people here are concerned about the tone of the election, specifically what donald trump has been saying, probably not a surprise when you look at the demographics of this area.

as you mentioned, we spent the morning with a community organizer. his day job is to try to get people jobs, to try to help find employment for the people who live here. he moonlights, really, as somebody who tries to get the vote out. take a listen to what he says. how does the trump message play in a place so diverse as this? >> well, community members are worried. they're worried about the anti-immigrant rhetoric they're hearing. they don't know what's going to come in the future, for them and for their families. one important thing to consider is that in this community, people live, you know -- they know each other, they -- you know, new americans, older americans, native born, new yorkers, they live together and they worry about each other. so when they hear that, you know, there may be possible mass deportations of people, they're worried. >> reporter: now, kate, something i hadn't heard until this hour, and i heard it simultaneously in my ear from

our kasie hunt and heard it here from somebody who supports bernie sanders, undocumented immigrants are giving money. even though they can't vote, they'll be watching the elections very closely come next tuesday. kate? >> cal perry over in queens, thanks so much. now here's hampton pearson with the cnbc market wrap. hampton? >> we started off in positive territory, but couldn't hold on. at the closing bell, markets slightly lower. the dow sinking by 20 points. the s&p down by 5. the ndaq shedding 17 points. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide.

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use against terror suspects in an exclusive interview with nbc's richard engel, john brennan said his agency would not engage in harsh enhanced interrogation practices, including waterboarding, even if a future president orders that. joining me now is richard engel, our nbc news chief foreign correspondent. richard, i want to play a bit of the sound, a bit of the interview you did with him and we'll talk about it on the other side. let's play that. >> sure. >> this organization will do what it can to protect the american public from the attacks from terrorist groups. i will not agree to carry out some of these tactics and techniques that i've heard bandied about, because this institution needs to endure, and as i said, we've learned lessons from the past. we have a lot of capabilities and competencies and skills. and so i don't believe that we need to resort to certain types of tactics. >> like waterboarding?

>> absolutely, i would not, i would not agree to having any cia officer carry out waterboarding again. >> so, richard, director brennan very clear with you there. what else did he say about his rationale? >> well, his rationale is that it is illegal. that it was banned by president obama in 2009. there used to be a -- well, it's now a discredited justice department opinion that the cia had previously been using to justify the program. that legal opinion has been withdrawn. so, effectively, he was saying that this was a practice that the cia did and does not want to do again, and has no intention of doing again. it is a door that the cia believes it has closed and does not want to reopen. >> richard, already, we've gotten response, as we might expect, from donald trump. let's play that sound and talk about it on the other side. this is earlier today.

>> i think his comments are ridiculous. i mean, they chop off heads and they drown people in cages with 15 in a cage and big steel, heavy cages. drop them right into the water, drown people. and we can't waterboard. we have a huge problem with isis, which we can't beat. and the reason we can't beat them is we won't use strong tactics. >> richard, what would brennan say to that? >> well, brennan and others would probably say that it's illegal. and that the -- that they're not going to do it. there have been numerous studies that there's still a debate out there, but there have been numerous studies saying that the enhanced interrogations, which critics call torture, didn't work. that it produced people who would just cough up any information that they thought their interrogators wanted to hear and that it was not an effective tool. there are people who dissent and don't agree with that, but there have been numerous studies to

that effect. also, the culture in the cia, there's a lot of officers and a lot of personnel who work there who felt that they got left holding the bag. that the bush administration asked them to do this. that they did it, and that afterwards, they faced lengthy criminal investigations, there were public hearings, some personnel had to hire their own personal attorneys to defend themselves. that the entire reputation of the organization became tarnished. that being a cia officer in the public's mind became known as being a torturer. and i don't think they want to go back down that road. especially now that it has been made illegal. so when you hear donald trump and others talk about using these techniques, one has to ask, well, who's actually going to be carrying them out? because the cia director is making it clear that the cia has no intention of doing that. >> richard angle, it's a fascinating interview, and i know you'll have much more on

this tonight on night lly news with lester holt. you can find that on your local nbc station. thanks so much. that's going to do it for this hour. our thanks to brooklyn roasting company for having us here. i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" starts right now. chris matthews hosting and he's got brand-new nbc polling numbers out of new york. stay with us. if it's monday, it's our brand-new poll of new york. can donald trump crack that 50% line? is bernie sanders chipping away at hillary clinton in her home state? let's find out. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good evening. i'm chris matthews, obviously in for chuck todd here in washington. i'll be back at 7:00 p.m. eastern. welcome to "mtp daily." with just eight