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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 14, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT

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values. there is no difference. >> nbc's kasie hunt, of course, following bernie sanders. first to you, ann gearan. sanders is clearly going to go after her with the paid speech that comes out from her own campaign or her own financial disclosures, same day that she's been walking the picket line with the verizon picketers. >> it's perfect for him. right? it hits union issues that ground
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level support he has. i was interested to see the war of words and clinton herself has stayed out of but i'm sure it will be brought up tonight. >> what about the rest of the clinton strategy tonight? >> reporter: this official made the point she's siding with the verizon workers and pointed out to go and walk with them and pointed out they made the argument on other issues like accepting money from wall street and that she has taken on wall
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street and then i am told she's going to draw using the interview he gave to the editorial and signaling and how she's going to do that and trying to make the broader point of this entire campaign which is that she has specific policy proposals and achieve them and senator sanders doesn't, that's her argument and i'm told that you can try to turn down the rhetoric or at least stand in stark contrast to the sharp rhetoric we've heard from senator sanders and reporting on throughout the day and spent a good part of today preparing, andrea. >> that's what she usually does on debate day. jane sanders was here, as you know a few moments ago talking
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about how the whole thing with sanders and his positions has had already. let's watch. >> everybody talking about income equality and trade. what he will be doing is pointing out the reason he's running is that they're not on the same page. they have very differing points of view and they will bring the country to different places. >> that is basically the argument that she is mimicking his issues as she moves farther to the left. >> that's right, andrea. and just listening to jane sanders there, she sounds so different now than just a couple of months ago when bernie sanders was resisting attacking
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hillary clinton saying, you know what? either one of us would be better than these republican candidates and i do think you saw a little bit of this at play yesterday when bernie sanders had that great really vintage moment with those verizon workers. that was really the kind of politics that shaped bernie sanders from the vy beginning. and then later in the day, you had hillary clinton essentially following doing the same thing, she met with leaders of the local union and i think the sanders campaign saying they have more to offer the rankin file union members as opposed to union leader members. but i do think tonight bernie sanders will have to answer questions about some of the things his surrogates have had to say. you've, of course, done a lot of reporting on what happened the last night at his rally with this comment about corporate democratic whores. they, of course, tweeted it was inappropriate but sanders himself yet to address it and not clear how much preparation bernie sanders has done for this
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debate. as you know, he's not a huge believer in debate prep. many of his advisors feel like they have to kind of push him to get ready for something like this and they've had quite a few things on their plate besides this debate, not the least of which this foreign trip abroad, his airplane scheduled to leave jfk at midnight tonight right after this debate and so no matter what happens on stage, if it's a good night for him or a bad night for him, he'll be heading to rome overnight and focused on something entirely different over the next 24 hours, andrea. >> and that is for sure. ann gearan, you'll be on that plane. let's hope that you all get some sleep on that plane. this is quite a detour. >> it is. i mean, as jane sanders said, you know, it's being designed so that he's away for the shortest possible time but still, the optics of it that he is taking a break from the campaign trail, just a few days before the crucial primary here on tuesday
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to go very far away to give a speech to a lot of americans here doesn't sound like a huge deal. in the context of global politics, it's a pretty big deal, an invitation to the vatican, even without an expressed invitation to meet the pope is a significant honor and sanders told us yesterday he would have kicked himself forever if he hadn't taken him up on the offer but he'll be away from the campaign trail for a day and a half or two days. >> ann gearan, kasie hunt, and kristen welker, thank you so much for the daily fix. on the other side of this break, chuck todd with his exclusive town hall with ted cruz. proud of you, son. ge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code
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chuck todd and the moderator of "meet the press" joins me now from buffalo. chuck, how was this town hall with ted cruz who is really sort of firing on all cylinders, but not in new york? >> look, he came to buffalo. he came to western new york. if he's going to make inroads everywhere, it's going to be here that he's going to make inroads. it was a very friendly crowd to him, but also a smart crowd. the questions were terrific. it's very much, you know, and even some uncomfortable questions for him from republicans, talking about new york values, so folks will be interested in that. so i'm going to play one clip and this was something he doesn't waffle on some of his criticisms of the washington establishment even as he's trying to bring them on board his campaign as part of the so-called anti-trump movement. i played for him a sound bite of
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mitchell mcconnell on the floor and asked if he had any regrets or wanted to apologize for it. >> you called him a liar. do you regret calling him a liar on the senate floor? >> washington is an amazing place. when somebody stands up and lies to you, and someone else points out that they lied. >> he lied to you. you still stand by it? >> every word i said was true and accurate. no one has disputed a word i said. they say, how dare you say that out loud? they're not upset that somebody lied to me. that's the amazing thing. >> if that's the case, how do you stand working with somebody who lies to you? >> listen -- >> how can you work with him going forward? >> what i have done from day one is endeavored and it's a promise i made to the people who elected me, i'm going to tell the truth, and i'm gointo do what i said
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i would do. >> so i actually think that bite we released sort of encapsulates the challenge that ted cruz has. there's an opportunity here. there's enough republicans that are skeptical of trump. they want to rally around an alternative and you can hear from republicans who don't want to support trump, but they basically are begging him to make the case to them. they're begging him to make it easier for them to support him and i think, you yow ssaw the challenge. cruz is cruz and that's essentially what i think his answer and his rebuttal there and his decision to stick by calling mitch mcconnell as a liar on the senate floor is something that i don't think the relationship will repair itself. >> you know, chuck, i was talking to chuck collins, a trump supporter who met with an invoice on capitol hill today and he said they came out of the
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meeting and their calculus from the trump team is that he will get to 1265 and they will not have a contested convention. is this new math? >> it's not new math. as you know, on "meet the press" on sunday, we went through this path and if he wins all 95 delegates out of new york, then suddenly, he only has to win essentially a half of remaining delegates. that suddenly doesn't look so hard when you consider the april 26 states, pennsylvania, maryland, connecticut, he's up on all of the states. the next time he runs into a potential hurdle is indiana in may and by that point, all of the sudden, you know, even on his worst day, he may be stuck at 1150 or something. the point is i feel like his floor and ceiling, if he wins all 95 out of new york and does a clean sweep, the floor and ceiling move. right? the floor, the worst case scenario for him is instead of
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being under a thousand or 1050. it might be 1100 but does move north of 1237 and we got him to 1247 on a favorable rosy scenario and i see how they can get to 1265. it's not an unrealistic path if trump sweeps new york next tuesday. >> chris, i called chris collins chuck and i'm calling you chris, but the bottom line is the new york primary is absolutely critical for donald trump's easing his way towards the magic number and certainly for bernie sanders going forward, so it's all on tuesday and we are in the right place. got to go, chuck, thank you. and we look forward to your town hall later today. all of the coverage all day right here on msnbc. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." and remember, follow the show on
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facebook, on twitter @mitchellreports. be sure to tune in to the double header exclusive town hall tonight. ted cruz and john kasich starting at 7:00 right here on msnbc, the place for politics. msnbc's kate snow is up next outside of cooperstown, baseball hall of fame. service, and that in a new house, you probably don't share the same tastes as the previous owner. ♪ [ dolphin chatters ] so when you need a little house painting or a complete remodel, we'll help you get the job done right, guaranteed. get started today at angie's list, because your home is where our heart is. try your favorite ranch with a fresh taste so crisp, you'll be surprised it doesn't crunch. hidden valley cucumber ranch.
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show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. hi, everyone. i'm kate snow live at the fly creek cider mill. it's been a place around since 1889. three miles outside of cooperstown, home of the famed national baseball hall of fame. all week, 2016 candidates have been flooding this state giving this region rich in american history a front row seat for the
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historic primary battles between democrats and republicans. where we are, it's about the apples and the cider, but tonight, the big apple is back in the spotlight as a contentious week between hillary clinton and bernie sanders comes to a climax in brooklyn. both candidates exchanging sharp words this week on guns, on wall street, qualifications for the oval office, and the latest bombshell dropped by a sanders supporter at last night's rally in new york city. a warning now about the language here. >> i agree with secretary clinton that medicare for all will never happen if we have a president who never aspires to something greater than the status quo.
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>> that was a sanders supporter who apologized calling it insensitive and sanders himself calling it inappropriate. are the apologies enough? this hour, breaking developments on west palm beach, florida. the state's attorney there holding a press conference in the next hour where according to politico, the charge against donald trump's campaign manager, corey lewandowski for battery involving a reporter will be dropped and not backing down from the gop pulling a fast one on colorado. >> they changed the rules. after i got in, they changed the rules. i joined and then they changed the rules and they took it away from the voters because i would have won in colorado. they saw i do very well in colorado, so it's a crooked system, but what are you going to do? in the meantime, i'm winning. >> we are covering all the 2016 primary action with our politics team on the ground but let's get to nbc's kerry sanders in west
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palm beach, florida. for more about the news conference regarding trump campaign manager corey lewandowski. kerry, what do we know? >> reporter: we now know what's going to be announced at the press conference. we have a picture up at the podium. we should hear from the state attorney, david aaronburg, in a few minutes but in the meantime, paperwork is filed with the clerk of the court concerning this case. and in the paperwork, it's a very short statement. it says although there was probable cause to make an arrest, the evidence cannot prove all of the legally required elements of the crime alleged. and it is insufficient to support a criminal prosecution. so as we go back to the beginning of when this first happened, it was this piece of videotape that initially was the evidence that the jupiter police department relied on. they looked at this evidence and they felt that they did see that corey lewandowski did what was called a simple battery by grabbing that reporter's arm,
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michelle fields. she then eventually complained to the police department, and her complaint was investigated. in addition to the videotape, there was a second witness, and so the jupiter police department arrested corey lewandowski. they never put him in handcuffs but he was officially arrested. the simple battery charge is quite common in the state of florida. this is not something that is unusual, but at the very outset of this, the state's attorney's office here did point out that it is extremely rare that the evidence that is presented to a police department necessarily means that there is a prosecution because the burden of proof of the prosecution is much higher. and as we heard, they did not feel that the evidence collected was enough burden of proof to take this to the courtroom. kate? >> and kerry, michelle fields has been tweeting today. what has she said? >> reporter: she has. she's been tweeting out because she thought she was going to get
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an advanced notice and said prosecutors office told m they would inform me of a decision. if reports are true, guess they decided to leak to reporters first. ugly. and then went on to say for those asking, office of prosecutor asked 2 weeks ago if i'd be okay with an apology from corey but haven't heard about it. but it is a system that exists here that when there are victims of crimes, they have victim's assistance. we don't know ether she's reached out or the office reached out directly to her but we do know typically she would be informed in advance of an announcement like this, but it may be she gets a phone call as i'm talking to you or in the next couple of minutes but the podium is set up and the cameras are there and we're now waiting to hear from the state's attorney and i might point out for people wondering, in this state, state's attorney are elected. it doesn't mean the decision to prosecute is a political
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decision but there's always that at the back of people's minds whether there was an outside political influence that impacted the decision of this state attorney decides to prosecute or not. kate? >> west palm beach. kerry sanders, thank you so much. robert costa of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst. bob, let me start where we just left off. and talk about the trump campaign and their management in general, the staff. i mean, they just made a new hire. just hired rick wiley who used to work with scott walker's campaign but how much does it matter what happens next hour with corey lewandowski? >> lewandowski remains a confidant and travels with trump often and this decision by the prosecutor down in florida enables lewandowski to continue his role, but what we're seeing right now is an evolution within trump's inner circle. lewandowski has been the sole person at trump's side day by day. now that circle is expanding
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with the hire of rick wiley, former scott walker advisor but also paul manafort, the veteran gop consultant and others to get from a small operation to something with a national footprint, especially when it comes to state conventions. >> does it, is it too little too late at this point or how much did we read into the fact that they're reorganizing a bit? >> it may be too late. we've seen the trump campaign struggle to get delegates but what you see with the meeting on capitol hill bringing together house members is trying to bolster their relationships, looking ahead to possibly getting the nomination and recognizing their weaknesses in that respect. >> your paper has an interesting read this morning. "the washington post" about how a nomination fight could hurt republicans down ballot, running for senate or house. it talks about mitch mcconnell and your colleague is right that he had a sort of don't be scary agenda telling republicans to keep voters in the fold and not
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be scary and now the republican nomination fight we've got has sort of blown that whole strategy out of the water. talk about that. are party insiders worried? >> that's a great point, kate. they are very worried because as much as there is some optimism in trump quarters to bring out new quarters in rust belt states and white working class voters for a long time, if you look at illinois or pennsylvania or senator toomey, these are states trending more democratic in recent years and trump's brand of politics, his brashness could turn off the suburban voters who are crucial for the republicans to be reelected. >> speaking of brashness, chuck todd aired a bit of his town hall with ted cruz which will be airing tonight on msnbc. i'm sure you heard it, robert, but the clip we just aired a short time ago was where chuck was asking senator cruz about his comments on the senate floor calling mitch mcconnell a liar
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and chuck asked him, do you apologize? do you regret saying that? and cruz basically said, no. i called him out because he did lie. is that going to be -- that looks like the most difficult relationship. if ted cruz were the nominee, having to work with mitch mcconnell? >> it's an excellent point. it's a strange moment for the cruz campaign because they're trying to protect their outsider brand and compete with donald trump but at the same time, they're trying to win over members of the republican establishment to say, the cruz campaign is the one who can really topple trump and bring together the party but cruz doesn't want to lose his credibility. that's why when he talks to people, he's the outsider, he's the anti-mcconnell. >> lastly, can i ask you about what happened last night down in pennsylvania, in pittsburgh with donald trump? there's a bit of sound i want to play and to set it up, he's talking about penn state university and the former coach
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who's now deceased, joe paterno. take a listen. >> i know a lot about pennsylvania and it's great. how's joe paterno? we going to bring that back, right? how about that whole deal. >> so the trump campaign later clarified that what he was talking about is a statue of joe paterno, for years, for decades, was the coach at penn state and then, the controversy involving the arrest and later conviction of someone who was a predator on children. this notion of bringing up joe paterno and again, the campaign saying that he was talking about the statue of paterno needs to be put back at the stadium at penn state, is it wise for trump to be weighting into that issue? >> it's an example of trump using more local language and competing in these primaries. as a pennsylvania myself, i am quite aware and others are in pennsylvania of how deep the penn state roots are and that
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alumni network is. the joe paterno and convictions for jerry sandusky, there's still a lot of anger about the statue being removed. he's playing towards the central pennsylvania voters saying he is supporting paterno, if you remember was a supporter of republican candidates in his lifetime. >> yeah. it's going to be an interesting one. pennsylvania after new york. robert costa, thank you so much for being with us as always. >> thank you. the last time chris matthews had a town hall, the candidate he interviewed, you might remember, spent a week struggling to clarify his views on abortion. that was donald trump. now the hardball host just finished taping a new town hall with republican john kasich. what hot button issue did he hit this times? i'll ask chris matthews ahead. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics live from fly creek new york.
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take on the unexpected. the new 2016 nissan altima. built to stand out. earlier today, the trump campaign held the first of several meetings with several members of congress who have endorsed the republican front-runner. the meeting was held at a popular club off of capitol hill. those in attendance included members of upcoming primary states like here in new york and pennsylvania. they and trump sounded confident about a first ballot win saying they'd get more than the 1237 delegates required. last hour, congressman cruz kol linls lins was with us and spoke with my colleague, andrea mitchell. here's what he had to say about the delegates cruz won at last week's colorado convention. >> let's face it.
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ted cruz is a bit of an insider. he knows how the inside game is being played. mr. trump is an outside. that's his appeal to america, that he is not a washington insider, and if nothing else, ted cruz has proven he is a washington insider, as he was able to do what he did in colorado and he's done very well in caucus states. >> congressman scott daejarlay endorsed donald trump and was at the meeting this morning. thank you for seeing us. >> glad to be here, kate. >> we heard from congressman collins who said during a news conference, went on to say that a conservative count, in other words, a count using the sort of worst-case scenario had trump winning at least 1,265 delegates. how does he reach that number, do you know? >> i think you got to look at the upcoming states for mr. trump, starting with new york and moving to pennsylvania and
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some of the northeast states. the math looks much better. don't think there's any secret it's good to have wisconsin in the rearview mirror. wasn't the best couple of weeks for mr. trump but there's a lot of optimism moving forward. >> and so you're down with that number too. you think 1,265 might be right in the range? >> yeah. i think it's possible for him to get to 1237. you can look at the math in the states and things obviously have to go the right way. but i do think there's only one person that can get there and that's mr. trump and i think that maybe the establishment is starting to see that they're not going to be able to parachute in a third party rescue candidate and the american people are starting to speak out. you see polls saying that 63% want whoever has the most delegates, who's won the most states, the most popular vote to be the nominee and that's going to be mr. trump. >> as you know, your candidate, donald trump, has been complaining, really yelling about the system the last couple of days. i want to play for you, ryan
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previous, saying the system is rigged against him charges. >> i have to respond though if the party of which i'm the chairman of is getting attacked, especially when it's not true. i know people get frustrated and they're disappointed when things don't go exactly the right way. i think when people are frustrated and upset, they say things they regret, but certainly, one thing that's true is the rules are not being changed in order to injure or benefit anybody. >> do you buy that the rules are the same for everyone or do you take issue with mr. previs? >> the rules are somewhat dynamic and the rules for the upcoming convention have yet to be set. i think what's happening is people on both sides of the aisle are seeing their voices aren't really being heard as they would expect. bernie sanders has gone on a heck of a run, won several states but oftentimes comes up short on delegates because of the super delegates. i think on the republican side, people are quite confused as to
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why the delegate math is working out the way it is. i'm not sure everyone fully understands what the rules are and the rules do seem to ebb and flow. >> i understand that, but the point from the rnc is that the rules have been the same all along. i mean, these are not new rules right now. granted, they could make new rules before the convention, but at the moment, you're living with the same rules the cruz campaign and the kasich campaign are living with. >> sure, and, you know, donald trump has got the delegate lead. he's got great states coming ahead. he has an unorthodox campaign style we've all seen and i don't think it's unusual for donald to continue and talk in the manner that he's talking but whatever he does is effective and pretty much led wire to wire and i'm not going to criticize his campaign style because it's working and he's the front-runner. >> scott, nice to have you with us. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> as the republican
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front-runner tries to win more members of congress, ted cruz is winning over delegates. new analysis by msnbc finds that some states are officially putting some of senator marco rubio's delegates up for grabs. chief legal correspondent ari melber went over the state rules, spoken to party leaders. how many delegates are we talking about here? >> we're talking about 34 delegates that we can report today are now up for grabs that were rubio's but under state rules are no longer. you and the congressman there were going back and forth about this and super delegates on the democratic side, these republican unbound delegates are sort of like super delegates for the republican side and as you accurately pointed out, kate, that has always been the plan. that is in the rules. we will show you here what robert carter, who's one of the delegates and holds a rubio slot, this is what he just told me, he's a minister from oklahoma and will back cruz on the first ballot if the gop advises him and the rules allow it, quote, i will pledge a vote for cruz on the first ballot and
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cruz's aids have told me at msnbc they're finding a warm reception at the grassroots level and that's obviously important because it's a concrete example. oklahoma has many more delegates to pick but shows where cruz moved in on organizing and argues they are there with them. they are people and basically selected locally by other folks on the ground and they're going to pick up some of the rubio slots. it's important, kate, because obviously if donald trump does not get a majority, does not get the 1237, these are the kind of unpledged or super delegates that could make the difference at a convention. >> all right, ari melber, back in new york city. thank you so much. up next, why one democratic women's group believes last night's insulting remark from a bernie sanders supporter is not just a one-time problem. but first, las vegas' new billion dollar business. here's mila patel with 30
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>> that's dr. paul song speaking there last night. he's a physician and health care add v advocate. a huge crowd of 27,000 supporters in new york city's washington square park. song later apologized saying he was referring to some members of congress, not to hillary clinton. sanders himself hadn't weighed in on the controversy until this morning when he tweeted the comment was inappropriate and insensitive and has no place in our political discourse. his wife, jane sanders, was just interviewed by andrea mitchell a short time ago and here's what she had to say. >> as soon as we heard it, immediately, we responded. that is not something we expected. as i said, he was a speaker at one event and he was one of many
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speakers and unfortunately, we weren't there to hear it. we had spoken up immediately. >> stephanie shriak the president of emily's list and joins us now. nice to see you. >> great to be here. thank you. >> dr. song said he was not talking about hillary clinton and his wife defended him on facebook. he said, i know he would never refer to any woman as a blank. it would a very poor choice of words and paul, it's regretful to use it and mortified it's used with secretary clinton. do you think his remarks were misunderstood? >> they're really disappointing the kind of language we're hearing. there's no place for that here in the democratic party and our politics. and i am glad to see senator sanders this morning disavowing these, but what we're beginning to see regularly is a pattern by
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senator sanders and his campaign sort of leaning in to these insults whether it's questioning hillary clinton's credibility or her qualifications or her ambition. really, what we're wondering is when we're going to get back to a focus on the issues and what -- >> are you suggesting that the sanders campaign knew that dr. song was going to say that word? >> no, i am not but we're seeing a pattern by the campaign to lay out a lot of insults here. and i am glad senator sanders disavowed those this morning. he could have done it from the stage last night in front of all of those folks, and i would have liked to see it then because it was so shocking to hear. but this turn by the campaign to focus on insults, i really hope we're turning back. he was going to run a positive campaign and we should get back to this.
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the democrats deserve better than this. >> to be fair, this was prior to bar bernie sanders took the stage and even before the band played if i understand the chronology and not sanders or his campaign. this is somebody outside of their campaign saying something. it's possible the senator didn't even know that it had happened. >> well, this was a campaign event. and i've been at a few campaign events in my life and there are lots and lots of campaign staff there. they certainly knew that it was a shocking statement then it was made and could have easily talked to the senator, but that is not specifically what it is about. i think it's about a pattern that we're hearing from this campaign, it's been a turn. it's more negative. and a lot of the things that are being talked about. some of it, and maybe not last night, but some of it has been out of the republican play book and seems like senator sanders and his campaign are cashing in on decades of attacks of hillary. the real question is we have a debate tonight and i am hoping
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we turn to how are we going to get things done? senator sanders does have a lot of questions that should be asked about how he plans on doing these things. let's focus back on the issues. we can do this. >> stephanie, to be fair here though, it's not like the clinton campaign is entirely immune from surrogates saying something that you or maybe the candidate wished they hadn't. you remember bill clinton's con chr fronation. and a special place in hell for women who don't support other women and bernie sanders supporters who are female. i think it happens, wouldn't you say it happens on both sides? >> but again, like i said, the senator addressed it this morning. i wish he would have addressed it last night. there are staff around. i'm sure they were talking about it. it was so shocking to hear and that's how these campaigns go. that's why we need to get
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refocused and i'm hoping that the sanders campaign really looks at this and says, we got to tone this all down among everybody and focus back on the issues. i've been so proud to be a democrat this year. i think we should all be proud. because we can really focus on the future and what we want to do while the republicans are going another direction. so i'll hope we get back to that track. >> well, we'll all be watching the debate tonight. that's for sure. thank you, stephanie shiriak. chris matthews sat down with john kasich. it's the first of two exclusive town hall events that we'll be bringing to you tonight and in that interview, they touched on a variety of issues including this exchange on same-sex marriage. >> there's a lot of women who say i'm straight, i'm married to my husband, but the fact that two guys get married doesn't affect me any. >> i support traditional marriage. >> what does that mean?
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between a man and a woman? exclusively to them? >> i said the court is ruled and we're not going to pass any laws now. it's in place. see, there's an the court rudled. there's an issue that i keep wading into, people ask me, look, chris, there is a conflict to some degree between people practicing their deeply held religious relieves which they have a right to do -- >> i agree. >> and something else that some think is inappropriate. that has to be balanced. i'm trying to argue, everyone just take a breath. let's understand better and be more tolerant. once you right a law then you keep rewriting the laws because you never get it right. >> do you tolerate same-sex marriage? >> yes. >> you tolerate it? >> i lived through one -- >> i know -- >> the women who know they
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know -- >> what should they do if they love each other? ? >> love one another. >> but not get married? >> i've given you an answer. i respect traditional marriage but there is a court ruling. there could be a constitutional amendment. i'm not for doing it. i'm for moving on. i'm also a believer that if i don't like what somebody is doing, i got a couple things i can do. i can tolerate it. i can say something. or another thing can i do, i can pray for a person. >> so that exchange just coming in. we're getting it to you right away. here is chris matthews, host of "hardball." you made so many headlines with donald trump so many weeks ago, this might be the headline out of this interview. >> the real tussle is the old fight we have in america about the iraq war. we've had expert testimony on our show that it was never
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really substantiated that saddam hussein had nuclear weapons. so we had that fight here because i raised it because somebody asked the question, what should we do in terms of dealing with isis. i said you're for american ground troops in the territory of isis going to war over there. why are we going to make the same mistake again. so it got a little heated. my audience here is on kasich's side. because they are. here they are, listen. listen to them. >> there they are. >> they came here to root for the guy and that's fair enough. we invited them. but i disagree. i think the iraq war was a terrible mistake and we argued about it. >> i know you can't tell too much about what happened there, chris, because you want to save it for tonight. but in terms of his attitude, misdemeanor, he always struck me as a guy so comfortable in his own skin, how did you see him today? >> well he was comfortable
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calling who we was talking about two days ago at the women's club in new york city. he was comfortable naming names today. i said when you talk about people exploiting fear and anger for their own fame, celebrity and attention-getting, who are you talking about? he said i'm talking about cruz and trump. trump and cruz. he gave the name for his pain here and didn't pull. that was news, i suppose. no more pretending. s from some extent, this is a negative campaign now. he is going against the tide. 15 million voters for trump or cruz. he's got about 3. i said how does 3 beat 15 million. how do you win and say it is democracy if the republican big shots in cleveland pick you over those two guys? how does that work? is that democracy? 3 million against 15 million? he made the case they will convert when they a get there. that's a hard argument to make but he made it here today.
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he said they will change when they get to cleveland. >> so he thinks a third or fourth ballot? did he play it out for you? >> sounded like it, kate. that was his message here today. trump he said, on the record trump will not have the required 1237, majority of the delegates. not have that. therefore will good to subsequent ballots and he argues during subsequent balloting that he will win. he will prevail. he didn't say what ballot he would win on. but he has it get past trump and get past cruz. doesn't look like he has to get past ryan, he's not in the mix any more. we know where the situation lies. does trump get 1237? if he does, no discussion. does he get the gimme? what's the gimme? some people say 1100 is close enough. pundits don't think that. cruz didn't think that. first time this happened, really, since way back in 1952 with democrats. possible multiballot convention
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in cleef cleveland is something that is strange to most ofness our life times. >> chris, only about a minute left, but i'm in upstate new york east of you. you're in buffalo in upstate new york. does john kasich feel like he might be able to win some delegates her in the empire state? >> i think he will come in second. i think cruz is just out of his territory here. he is a foreigner to new york. he made fun of new york values. very hard for new yorkers not it take that personal. despite how much spin he put on the thing. i didn't really mean new york when i said new york values. well, sounded like it. then he said, he is really talking about anthony weiner. people didn't really buy that theory either. but we're talking about, you know, exploiting situations. he exploited that baby. i think -- i think this is more like kasich -- he grew up like i did. an ethnic name. working guy, catholic. seems more like a new york long island kind of person than this
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guy, this guy from texas, you know, texas with the boots. i don't think that works here except maybe on broadway. who knows. i remember a movie like that. you know that movie. but i don't know, you asked me a question, i think it's going to be trump here, followed by kasich, and then way down there cruz. where as i just saw in pennsylvania, i was shocked, cruz is beating kasich in pennsylvania. that may not hold if kasich wins here. these things have a serial effect. >> chris, i apologize -- >> we have one smart audience here today. one really smart audience. really. >> i think your audience can hear me when i say, i'm mixed up where you are where chuck todd was. you're on long island. forgive me folks of jericho. >> it is warm here. >> we will tune in tonight.
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>> thanks, kate. >> it is warmer on long island. >> yes, it is. >> john kasich tonight at 7:00 p.m., followed by chuk todd with ted cruz at 8:00. at 10:00 eastern, go into the stop trump movement with lawrence o'donnell. and there post debate analysis. here on msnbc. that wraps up this hour of coverage live from cider mill in new york, my colleague erica hill is up next, live from brooklyn. we'll be back at 3:00. why just shave,
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