tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC July 22, 2016 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
and careful about the information they release while the investigation is ongoing. >> tamron, that's absolutely right. as our viewers have noticed so far, we tend to be repeating the same pictures because it's all we can be sure of. we sometimes can't be entirely sure of what we receive on social media, but presumably and with cal perry's help, we'll be getting more via facebook live. as tamron has pointed out, think of an american shopping mall and they have often two or three so-called anchor department stores. that seems to be the situation for this. it's in an urban area so they tend to be more compact as opposed to a suburban mall. this mcdonald's was in the food area of the mall, which has a very standard stacked indoor
parking lot. and as jim cavanaugh pointed out and correctly points out each time we come on the air to cover this, first reports are often wrong. first reports often have multiple gunmen, multiple locations of gunfire. it could turn out to be correct. we just don't know as of yet. matt bradley is in our london bureau sampling all he can from there. matt? >> thanks, brian. it's a very fluid situation. we have seen this constant reiteration of these outbreaks of violence in europe and elsewhere. we know now from the police speaking to local german media is they believe there are now three people who have died. they have no real word on injuries, though it's thought there are multiple injuries. more than one at least. and they don't know where the shooters are. they were just tweeting, the police, that they don't know
where the shooters are at this moment. they are trying to canvas the area and advising residents to shelter in place and try to stay off the streets in order to remain safe. they have shut down the local transportation, the underground that serves that shopping mall. they have also tried to shuttle down a lot of the streets in the area and moving into the mall and trying to evacuate that facility to try to keep as many people safe as possible. again, from those troubling images that you have seen, that you have shown taken by social media. while we can't verify the information, the images speak for themselves. this is a frightening situation. it's thought that there are more than one shooter. there are multiple shooters. so the fact that the police can't seem to find them is going to be troubling for a lot of people in that area. there's so many places these perpetrators can go, can escape to around that very busy neighborhood there in northern munich. there's a darker parallel to all of this. this olympic shopping mall. this is right next to the
olympiapark that was built for the 1972 olympics. that's remembered for a much darker episode when anti-israeli militants took 11 athletes hostage for several days and then ended up killing them all in the end. so a very dark parallel playing out with the events of today. >> matt bradley reporting. reports from german media that we are monitoring in our london bureau. cal perry is in our new york newsroom. have we learned anything more? >> police put out a statement on facebook. i'll just go through it with you. they are reporting from witnesses that three different people were spotted with firearms. but at this point, i want to make clear to our viewers, after a shooting happens, you have a lot of cops arriving. they have guns. and witness statements are notoriously wrong. so again, in the early stages of
this, according to munic police, they believe there could be at least three people involved. they confirmed federal police arrived on scene as well as special forces. the search is running at full speed. due to the unclear situation, we ask that all people in the urban area stay home or take shelter in nearby buildings for protection. they finished the statement with the operation of the public transportation system is currently set. what that means is that the public transportation in munich is basically full on shut down. the other thing that i want to make clear is they are highlighting as of now, no one is under arrest. this is an ongoing situation. >> a couple things here. weapons are hard to come by in germany. the police forces have a very effective kind of special operations division. there's every reason to think their response time on this was quick. as our viewers have seen, the u.s. consulate is advisg any americans and there's a
substantial population of americans in germany at any given time, they are telling any americans to shelter in place. that new post 9/11 phrase we have all learned. basically meaning stay home. if you're at the office, stay at the office until you hear the all clear. to cal's point about witness statements, often there are sonic cues, sound cues that can be misleading. if a single gunman is in a courtyard, shop iping mall, andn the move, if fire is returned by law enforcemt, even off duty law enforcement, it can give people the impression that there are multiple shooters when perhaps there's only one. of course, the problem is we just don't know in this case.
the report from overseas, as you see at the bottom of the screen. early reports indicate several people have been killed and injured in this shooting. we have monitored our state department's reaction to all this. >> first of all, the state department is advising american terrorists to shelter in place. if you're in a hotel or restaurant, stay there. do not venture out. because they are not confident that this is confined to this particular shopping mall. we have also now got this statement from german police in english. so german tweeting out a message in english to tourists and others in the area. there has been gunfire. the situation is unclear. we will keep you informed. #munich #west. this particular part of munich.
for the americans there this time of year, germany is a popular tourist destination. especially this summer taking advantage of a low exchange rate. americans drawn to the beautiful center part of munich with the old clock tower and also the legendary beer hall in the middle of munich. so it is a must-stop for americans and all international tourists coming through germany. this particular city in the center of munich and i would confess i was there last summer. this is a very popular place. so the concern is is not only for the german who is are in that area and who speak german, but others who don't speak german and in that area. >> i can underscore that portion of munich loaded with tourists. a lot of fun. people just kind of casually walking around going from bar to bar, restaurant to restaurant. it's a big draw for not only american tourists but people
from all over the world. and our coverage we can talk about the vulnerability here. >> this is something that officials are very much concerned about. these particularly soft targets, as they are described. targets where they get large crowds of people, pedestrian traffic, particularly on a friday night where you can expect there are going to be a lot of families and people enjoying the beginning of their weekend. in particular the country like germany and munich, a very open society. security on high alert given what has happened in belgium as well as what has happened in neighboring france. and even more recently inside germany inside just a few days ago with an incident involving an afghan man wielding a knife and an ax. that has been described as the first attack inspired by isis inside germany. so this could be a very different chapter once a motivation is established. but i do want to reference a
statement that was put out by munich police a short while ago. this is on their verified facebook page. it makes reference to reports, according to witnesses, that there were three different people with firearms. this is according to the munich police this put out this statement on their verified page. the way they are describing it right now is that the search for them is running at full speed. that again, is according to the translated statement by german police a short while ago. an indication that this operation is very much active and still ongoing. >> we should also mention while we have no clue if it's going to end up being a component that germany is at the center of so many discussions going on in europe right now. but mostly over kind of a forced immigration. the way a lot of germans see it,
they have had to kind of take in a huge number of people from the middle east. >> depending on who you ask, what has unfolded in germany over the past several months has been the subject of intense debate politically and in many other ways security wise. you talk about the hundreds of thousands of refugees that have come into europe. germany has been at the forefront of welcoming them. that's been a cornerstone of a lot of german policy, if if you will, to accept these refugees to try to help them assimilate and get back on their feet. as you can imagine, that has also ignited a fire storm of controversy for many who have said that allowing hundreds of thousands of refugees to come into the country poses a vulnerability because they believe that coming from places like syria and iraq or elsewhere could pose a vulnerability that they are not able to verify or identify who is coming into the
country and potentially that could be a back-door channel for some potential attackers. now we don't know the political motivations or any motivations behind this attack. one concern, though, brian, is german intelligence officials have been open about this. they have had about 700 or so german national who is have traveled to isis-held areas both in syria and iraq who have joined that terrorist organization. who have fought on the battlefields of those countries. and as we have mentioned, there's always a growing concern that these foreign nationals who carry european passports travel to these battlefields and then are able to slip right back in with relative ease into europe. that was the case in the attacks that took place in france. many of the attackers that participated in the terrorist attacks at the bataclan had traveled and fought in syria and had slipped back into europe thu turkey. this is still very early on.
there's no indication that this is the scenario. but given what europe has dealt with over the past several months, one of the first things that jumps into mind as we start to learn more about the nature of this attack, the vulnerability of where they were going after, the style in which it is happening, those things immediately jump to the front of our minds as we begin to continue to analyze this. . but you asked about the vulnerability, the security concerns. i hate to use this language, but germany in some ways was bracing itself for this type of attack. in fact, german officials said while germany's security was on par with the best in the world, they still recognized and publically acknowledged that they were a target. and unfortunately, this attack that's unfolding could possibly be realized their worst fears. >> i know facebook has activated their safety check for munich and the surrounding area. back to tom costello for one more note about americans.
>> i wanted to reiterate the u.s. state department's travel alert that went out on may 31st. we mentioned that just today the consulate in munich is advising everybody to stay and shelter in place. now a reminder of what went out on may 31st from the state department. quote, as part of the state department's continuous efforts to provide americans traveling abroad with information about relevant events, we are alerting u.s. citizens to the risk of potential terrorist attacks throughout europe targeting major events, tourist sites, restaurants, commercial centers and transportation. it says the largest number of tourists visiting europe in the summer months will present greater targets for terrorists, especially at large events. they talk about the european soccer championship in early june through july 10th and also the upcoming catholic church world youth day, which will be in poe land from july 26th through 31st.
citizens should exercise vigilance in public places. be aware of surroundings. that came out on may 31st and since then, we have had the attacks in nice and we have now had this attack it would appear in munich, germany. >> thank you, tom costello. over to cal perry here. >> you would have heard tom say the munich police are sweeting in english three tweets just now coming across from police. the first, quote, suspects are still on the run. please avoid public places. the second one, please don't take photos or videos of police action. the third tweet, unconfirmed reports of more violence and possible gunfire in the city center. situation is unclear. please avoid public areas. i can tell you we have been monitoring local german television. they are report iing a second incident at a subway station. we are not ready to independently confirm that. but police now tweeting out unconfirmed reports of more violence and possible gunfire in the city center. all of this is to say that
there's no one in custody. munich police are treating this with an abundance of caution. they are saying, quote, the suspects are still on the run. >> we see this is new pictures here. on the screen, hard to figure out what's going on except all those who are friendlies are raising their hands in the face of muzzles aimed at them by police. we could have a more than one location outbreak here on our hands in munich, germany. we are duty bound to also point out to all viewers who are with us here at 2:15 eastern time having devoted some 50 hours this week to domestic politics in our country. hillary clinton has started a political event in florida. we have been on standby all day for the potential naming of her
vice presidential candidate. we wanted to let you know we will break in with that the moment we can confirm the story. but that is going on concurrently in our kocountry. we have been monitoring the coverage from munich, germany where we have a report of multiple suspects on the run. as kal perry said, we're not quite ready to confirm multiple locations of gunfire. our london bureau with more. >> we are able to say that actually it is more than one shooter because the munich police just announced that it actually is three people.
they describe the situation that actually started in the shopping mall and the shooters were walking down the streets through the neighborhood around it and actually ended the fire fight at the shopping mall. i think you're seeing some of these images at mcdonald's that was aross kro the street and some images now show a rather more fluid situation where there's people who are moving down the street as opposed to a shootout taking place only within this massive shopping mall itself. >> according to this police statement, the police statement goes on to emphasize how unclear and just how fluid the situation is. but they mention that it seems as though if you recall a couple hours ago the police stated that the shooting appeared to be over. and that seems to indicate that the shooting itself from the men who are sought to be the
perpetrators may have stopped at some point. so while they emphasized how unclear and how fast changing the situation is. they do mention that the shooting seemed to have halted around the area of this shopping mall and it started a few block was. shooter seemed on to moving throughout the streets. throughout all of our reporting on this, even the police statements, which while the german police do tend to take impeccable care of their information as they release it to the public, even this is going to be sort of shaky and unreliable as it's coming out just in the hours and minutes after this incident is first taking place. i want to mention a couple other -- we're looking at the telegram channels. it's one of the sites used by islamic state and prefer it because it's so private and because it allowed them to
communicate without being spied upon. there's a lot of chatter on telegram right now. as we have seen reported on twitter and by our own people here, the issue is that the islamic state fan boys, as we would call them who are are watching this incident are reporting it in the same way you and i are reporting it. an incident that's involved as an incident of note and should be watched. so far, none of the official groups have claimed responsibility. thsz get iting a lot of attenti in the same way it's getting attention in the global news media. but no one has come out and said anything along the lines of a claim of responsibility. >> matt bradley, thanks. malcolm nance is a terrorism, pert. we all too froektly turn to.
the author of the book "defeating isis." set the stakes. set the backdrop as e we talk about modern day munich, germany, 2016. what do you immediately think about? >> it's interesting you should mention that. at this point i'm starting to spend only time in munich. and i know the mall. and germany is receiving a large influx of migrants, but for a long time they have had their communities living there principally turkish, although we have had our first incident of terrorism that's been claimed by isis a few days ago, a terrorist with a knife and an ax who went on a train and did an attack inside there is quite possible
just based on the numbers we're seeing here that what we have here is a very simple running gun attack. very similar to paris going from the restaurants to a final venue and carrying out an incident. cal perry said this started outside of the mall and may have gone into the subways. and their system there, their metro system, there's only two stops from there to downtown. you go and are at a place that is two blocks from marion plots, which is the central location. we have already seen reports that police have set up perimeters throughout the system. particular particularly this area, which if these gunmen had gone from the
metro immediately, they could be down sbo the center city of certainly of munich right now kwh is the only reason we have not seen them die, that they didn't actually die inside that mall is because they would be planning a restrike, which is to move to another location and carry out an attack. engineer medicine police have said that there's unconfirmed information about the secondary site down in either oois tore. the situation is confused. i'm getting the same thing from a contact in germany monitoring the news media at the same time. so we have a city wide manhunt going on right now. you have to understand that isis had 760 germans join that group.
200 of them are believed to have returned into germany. but this may not even be actual members of isis. they could actually go into the community and radicalize individuals or may have an inspired attack by people who took this friday and just went out and carried out this attack. so again, it's all very fluid. a lot of this is not confirmed. as information comes on, it's going to jolt the picture that we have about precisely of who the perpetrators are, what their intentions were and where they are right now. >> and malcolm, i haven't been to the center of munich since '08, but it's a vivid memory. it's sadly to use your business it's full of soft targets. it's all about being out in the open shopping. it's about the consumption of beer and consumption of food and having a good time.
it's so packed with people that often you have the light rail right alongside people walking. they have to be very careful to get out of the way of the train. >> you're ab sloutly right. to go to the mall is a massive mall. it is tyson's corner times two for those who live in the washington, d.c. area. it's just an enormous place. it would make sense carrying out this attack if you're not coming from downtown to start in front of the mcdonald's, which is symbolic in itself. the video i have seen, i saw one gunman with a handgun and move on to a secondary target and keep the city in a state of fear as you run and gun throughout the town. we don't have confirmation of that. the only thing confirmed is the attack on the oez, but that's
why the sek, the german s.w.a.t. are taking this seriously and going to put a ring of guns around all of the metro stations and definitely the marion plats because that is the softest, largest tourist target in the city of munich. >> malcolm nance, thank you for that. tom costello has more in our washington bureau. >> it's incremental, but state department is is now saying police reporting multiple shooting incidents in the city. multiple shooting incidents in the city. according to the state department, which is in contact with munich police. so it's now evident there may be more than one incident in the city. and you may recall 30 minutes or so ago when we were watching the live feed and suddenly there was a stream of police vehicles out of the shopping center area with blue light and siren heading away from it.
>> tom costello, thanks. a kind of new dynamic we have seen. sadly these come together so rapidly in the last few trust attacks is governments or police agencies telling people not to take pictures of police and military and if they do, don't post those pictures on social media. what they have done is deputized every citizen to be a e de facto journalist. people feel a compulsion to post what they record and it is not always helpful in all cases.
you'll recall in nice, people without thinking about what they were doing posting fphotos of te dead and maimed, including children. that most people could not look at. this has to do with what malcolm nance appropriately describes as a fast moving and tightening ring of very able, very capable german security personnel, who are going to want to put this down. munich, germany is such a tourist center in that country. it's such an enjoyable place. during this, the high season especially. . so one more mention of what
we're concurrently following in this country. because interest is heightened coming off this political week we have had. all our antenna are out and focused on the potential announcement this afternoon, potential leak or outward announcement from the campaign of hillary clinton's running mate. it is one of two tracks we are pursuing this afternoon. we are on it. we will have it on the air the moment the information come is known. richard engel, our chief foreign correspondent, has joined us here in the studio. you have traveled thousands of miles since we last saw each other. you have been back toist t ista. when you see mass shooting, law enforcement on the move in munich, germany, what does a guy like you think?
>> you think it's happened again. you think that germany has increasingly become a target for these groups. germany had been relatively immune, unlike the french-speaking parts of france. and it seems to be a terrorist attack. police aren't saying that yet. they are still being cautious, but it's very rare in germany to have the police tweet out a general shelter in place order. american citizens also being advised to shelter in place. german sources so far and police sources are saying the shooting started at the mcdonald's. which is right attached to the shopping mall. and that there are reports of three gunmen after shooting at the mcdonald's proceeded to continue shooting inside the shopping mall. several have been killed. the numbers estimate from 1 to 15 at this stage, but those numbers could fluctuate and
become significantly higher. different reports about whether there were other shooting incidents around the city. e we haven't been able to nail that down. the biggest incident appears to have been at this shopping mall, but there have been -- he's hearing from sources there were multiple locations. >> and if you're looking for symbolism, if it's a run and gun, multilocation, multigunman attack, start iing it at the beacon of american brand names like a mcdonald's in a tightly packed, very large german shopping mall would make proverse but perfect sense. tom cost teello has more. >> this has been upgraded to an emergency message from the u.s. consulate general in munich. emergency message for u.s. citizens. shots fired and multiple locations. i'm quoting now from the
emergency message. media reporting shots fired at the shopping mall in germany resulting in casualties. subsequent reports in other locations in munich. there's a a major police operation underway. mass transit halted during this operation. u.s. citizens advised to shelter in place pend iing police announcements that the situation is under control. review your personal situation security plans. remain aware of your surroundings and monitor local news and maintain a high level of vigilance and take appropriate steps to enhance security. the upgraded message and emergency message for all u.s. citizens in the munich area from the consulate general. >> as tom costello is speaking, we are cycling in as we can the new pictures as we get them. this obviously the german either military force or paramilitary police force in their full.
>> multiple locations being e evacuated. there's at least three locations now that we know police are taking a look at. two of them confirmed to have shootings outside. there's that mcdonald's. that was where this seemed to have started. then the mall number two. and unconfirmed reports from local media that gunmen may have gone into the subway. that's strlting to become more and more likely as we see police going through this subway system and getting everybody out. >> this continues to be one form of terrorism. that is if it isn't more proverse than that and is separate cells keyed into go off
at different staggered times. it can start their attacks and do a run and gun attack at a restaurant and then a shopping mall. and this clustered attack. then if you have a city wide problem, you have no idea. this is for germany a serious incident. it comes on the heels just a few days ago. there was the ax attack. which profoundly disturbed germans because it was a young
afghan refugee. that was a profound acknowledge for germany. then you have this city in lockdown. >> then you have a determined enemy in most of these cases that have decided that their lives no longer have value and that they are perfectly willing to trade their lives for a terrorist attack. one person we all know from our travels into and through germany is our veteran nbc news producer andy ekheart. what have you been able to learn from german police?
>> police told us that they believe it's multiple attackers. they did not identify the exact number, but it's probably two or more. police have not abducted them. that's why police are sending out on twitter very urgent messages to the munich public that they should stay inside and stay away from public places. this is a very dramatic situation for munich. so this will have a severe impact. we're also hearing from our colleagues at german public broadcast that the main train station seems to be on lockdown and trying to evacuate the train
station. until this situation has been resolved. but let me just mention we deent at this point have confirmation this is a terror attack. it could be something else. it's a a shooting. we know it's several people that fired shots at this shopping mall in northern part of munich. but there's no official confirmation that this is a terror attack. though, obviously, everybody in germany is on high alert when it comes to terror after the attack last week. and the threats that have been forwarded by isis to germany with specific targets at times. one of them was the airport that was mentioned in isis propaganda and we had the gate mentioned.
so obviously on high terror ale alert. >> very good point that we cannot and should not yet brand this a terrorist attack. what we know is that so far it is a shooting. one more word about munich. i think the last time you and i worked together there was eight years ago. we had news to cover in berlin. on that trip, i was in the center of munich and it really is entirely geared toward outdoor life, fun, celebration, consumption of beer in large amounts and food in large amounts and a city that just welcomes tourists and celebrates and enjoys life. and what a shock this will be to the system. >> absolutely, brian. this time of the year is high season for munich. they go out to the beer gardens and vacation time has start ed
for a lot of people in different states and a lot of them flock to the munich area. it's obviously a very busy place. other parts are not used to shootings at all because in germany we have very tight gun laws and it's very unusual to have normal crime shootings on the streets. so any type of violence that has to do with guns is a shock to anybody in germany. i'm pretty sure that this will have a big effect on the move in the country. especially after those gruesome attacks on the train by this young man who came in with an ax and a knife and started cutting people up and hitting them on the head. >> our friend and veteran producer in germany, get back in touch with us when you have more. richard engel remains with us in our new york studios. >> you immediately think of isis
when the group has carried out this kind of threats. isis has said it's going to hit germany and isis has a lot of germans, frankly. there are about 760 germans who went to syria to join isis and other groups. about 250 of them have returned to germany, according to numbers that nbc news has. and about 100 of them have died and the rest would be unaccount ed for. that's an enormous number of people. if three of them or 10 or 20. to carry out an act of terrorism, it's difficult to deal with it. there's going to be grow iing anger across europe and there already is growing anger. in the aftermath of the nice attack, there were all the flowers and everyone talked about the tragedy. but if you looked at a lot of messages written on those flowers, a lot of them were love and peace. some of them were not. some were intolerant. we need to stop this. we cant just be cowering in our homes. there was anti-muslim rhetoric.
there's definitely anger growing. there's anger at the german government and at angela merkel who when this wave of migrants came across the border last year she was perceived to have flung the doors wide open. this is helping a movement toward law and order parties or right-wing parties across the continent. and again, this hasn't been confirmed as terrorism, but generally gunmen with grievances don't travel in packs and disperse through the city and fire that way. if it was the case, then we will change the topic, but it certainly appears to be terrorism. >> there was one written about in the news media where they were forced to accept more syrian refugees than the population of the town. >> that got a lot of attention in the german media. there's anger. and some of it is racism and
some of it is every time an incident happens shs those racist parties have a case to make. they can say look what's happening. e we need to secure our borders. right now the borders within europe are not secure. there have been some efforts to tighten them, but you can still get in a car or a train and go from country to country. europe's borders or defenses are the area outside the zone. every time this happens, people are saying is this the right system. do the walls need to go back up. >> for the people just tuning in. seeing video what is obviously not from our country a place where they have bmws and audis as police cars. we are covering an emergency situation in munich, germany,
where local police have been using social media rather urgent ly. now joined by the state department, which is saying major police operation underway following media reports of a shooting at the shopping center, shopping mall really that was first opened with the olympic games back in 1972. from there, it's not that far to the center of munich, a city all about pedestrian traffic, outdoor shopping, food and beer and this time of year a huge location for tourists from around the world and certainly from across europe. we know that there are reports in german media of multiple fatalities. multiple people shot at that first location and now reports
of multiple locations, in fact, throughout munich. various train stations on the commuter rail system are being emptied and have been evacuated. the pictures we're getting from german media are varying a little bit. we're starting to see some pictures we have not been looking at for the past hour or so. germany is quite different. weapons are very hard to come by. you see here what we would have in the united states, a rapid reaction force probably at first made up of local police, who have access to automatic weapons if and when they need them. police in helicopters overlooking the scene in munich. and perhaps elements of the german military.
but in this case, these appeared to be press photographers, at least one of them, emerging from a wooded area. police take -- as we have seen in the case of the united states, take no chances and ask the all people emerging proclaim ing their innocence to put their hands up because in a situation like this no one can be trusted. but this is a large and sprawling shopping mall and three department store and anchors. the shooting is said to have started in front of a mcdonald's at or near the food court at this mall. as malcolm nance pointed out, it's just one or two train stops from there. and you're in the center of munich. richard engel is here with us in new york. talking the pressure germany has been under.
a lot of germans feel they weren't consulted on the huge numbers, the huge wave of immigrants that they have been forced to absorb into german society. we have seen a rightward tilt in an increasing number of european nations. and this won't do anything to put that off. >> we don't e know the identity of the shooters yet. but i'm putting myself in the german mind right now. people in germany were angry. they were watching what happened in nice. they were watching what happened in germany. they are saying this is a problem. we can't cope with the influx of people who have been coming from the middle east. the solution to the world's problems is not to tip over the hour glass into europe.
getting the consultation and the care that the german state was putting forward for the refugees and yet the attack happened. so when you have this backdrop of anger and then suddenly you turn on your tv set or you're in munich and getting this alert to shelter in place, you can understand why there would be so much anger and frustration when you're starting from a point. >> ian join us by tel phone. we have often consulted with him way too often because of stories like this popping up in the news. a global risk research and consulting firm. a field where he has an expert. and bares repeating that all we
know so far is that we have a shooting or multiple shooting locations in munich. cannot technically be labeled terrorism. >> and certainly i'm with richard and the assumption that that's the direction you're going. but until this proof can't go that the times we have had me on is overwhelmingly those headlines have been around europe. both from indigenous muslim populations and not economically or culturally as well as more recent refugees and populism, which is growing in germany but also across the continent. its brexit that occurred in
large part because of exactly this issue. and it's also turkey. not just in terms of the failed coup, but also a deal between germany and turkey meant to keep refugees in turkey, but was going to liberalize and allow turks to come across as they would with any eu member. don't have to be very smart to understand that given these attacks in germany over the past few weeks and now again tragically today the willingness of the german people to a closer relationship with turkey is virtually zero. they tilt to the rise of the alternatives party, which is the euro skeptic party.
both in terms of their borders and also more broadly given the environments in the middle east and given the way it's me it's a sizing sbo the continent. >> interestingly as you know it has come up in our domestic politics with mr. trump's interview with "the new york times" this week. ian, as you know, we try often to point out that our society depends on a ratio of good guys to bad guys. where the good guys are concerned, talk about the german response, the resources they
have between police and military to put this down. >> i think the germans have tilted pretty strongly in favor of the good guys over the last few years. they do have effective security. they are monitoring those that are considered to be from problematic countries those that have been engaged as foreign fighters in syria and iraq. you have also had a community reasonably welcoming in terms of willingness to provide economic support for the refugees when they come in treating them as any other german citizen from a social rights and integration perspective. but having said that, the fact that merkel last year said we're going to bring in a a million and then you remember on new year's eve there was a tipping point in germany, this was it.
that was kind of the we had enough moment in germany. and at that point, your good guys to bad guys ratio started to tilt. you have to maintain support of the general public. you have to have good will. you have to have willingness to say we can get past this. this is a bad apple. it's five bad apples. but we want to do the right thing. the right thing in germany is protect the borders. fewer people in here. we have had enough. it's an every nation for yourself kind of theme across europe right now. they have nowhere near the population. that's what you're experiencing. >> think how ordinary these pictures have become.
we have become so pictures of like this. innocent people badly shaken because gun violence has shaken their community. and it's a constant now in our society and in our media. cal perry is in our new york newsroom right behind our studio here. going through incoming video and social media. >> two pieces of video. the first just a quick warning to our viewers. you may find this disturb iing. this is video purporting to be the shooting at the mcdonald's as it started. take a listen. >> you can hear pretty controlled fire. this is what we believe to be the first location. that mcdonald's.
the second location was the mall. we also have video here e showing you some wounded on the ground. this is in that same location of the same video we just showed you. you'll see people there getting loaded into the ambulances. a number of people wounded there on the ground. but again, the latest from munich police. they are, quote, searching for offenders. the munich train station, this is not a subway stop. this is the main train station has been shut down. i'll let richard speak to the importance of that. so this is starting to reverbera reverberate. >> what i can't figure out about the mcdonald's video why did someone have cause to be rolling and is that potentially a gunman we are seeing in those first few frames in front of the door? >> absolutely. if you cue it back to the beginning. you will see the gunman. you'll see him make the motion of docking a gun.
it looks to e me like a pistol there. and it certainly sounds like a pistol. it doesn't sound like an automatic rifle. it's hard to tell from that distance. that is one of the gunmen there opening fire. as to why somebody is rolling on a cell phone, i don't know. >> cal perry, the grizzlie business of taking in these first few images and move iing pictures from a scene of this kind of thing. richard engel, cal mentioned that train station in munich. >> still focused on that video. that guy holding his pistol pointing it straight and firing but doesn't seem like he has a particular target. he's firing into the crowd. flying into people who are running. whoever was taking that video. once the shots fired you saw the video drop to the ground. the police clearly don't believe in germany that they have contained the situation. they still talk about possibly
three shooters. andy was saying two or more shooters. so there are subway stations there. there are shooters on the loose. i think they are trying to lock down any place they can. locking down the main train station means they believe there's a possibility he could have gone to that train station and don't want another mass casualty event. >> coming up on 9:00 local time in the middle of summer. big tourist season. the laltest of where people are reacting there. tom costello, part of our team in washington monitoring especially communications from the state department to the many americans in munich, germany at any given time any day of the year. >> on twitter, the state department just said to u.s. justices, they put out an emergency message saying shelter
in place with multiple shootings occurring in munich. they are advising citizens in munich, quote, contact your loved ones directly or use social media to let them know that you are safe when it's possible. if you are in contact with somebody who may be in germany, it may be a good idea to let them know about the twitter handle for the state department. that way they are able to follow as well what the state department is putting out. also it's probably important to mention that yesterday the german foreign minister was here in d.c. au long with representatives from 45 different countries for a counter-isis meeting along with secretary of state john kerry. so the strategy, as you know, about countering isis and taking the fight to isis has been discussed at length among the different various ministers from
various countries and just yet that high level meeting here in washington with various middle eastern and u.s. authorities discussing the threat posed by isis and how to deal collectively with them and to take the fight to them. back to you. >> tom costello, you see the local time up there on the left-hand side of the screen. coming up on 9:00 in europe this season. the farther north you go, the longer the daylight lasts. this is the breaking news as we come to the top of another hour. that's really the shopping mall. it may not lock quite the same as they do even as they do in tightly packed places in. america. the inner city malls, but it is a large one with three anchor department stores. the kind of food court you'd find in the united states. and all the attendant retailing
in the corridor around it. this part of munich was cleared and constructed and rebuilt as the olympic village in '72 and repurposed as a lot of olympic cities try to do after the games to let the people of that city and country use the usually terrific facilities that they are left with after welcome iin the world at the olympic games. and in some cases, that property, this is happening in parts of london. it happened in parts of athens. property kind of goes back to the kind of retailing and zoning they are used to. but that is the olympia shopping mall. the concern is these reports of multiple shootings in multiple locations in the city of munich, which is just a huge tourist destination. really any time but mainly
during the summer months. thousands of americans are stationed in germany as part of the u.s. military. thousands more are assigned there for work. thousands more are visiting just as tourists every day. as are people from across europe and around the world. on the right-hand side of your screen, the video that has come in over the past hour or so. local cops advancing on people coming out of a wooded area. they turn out to be innocent by raise iing their hands. something we have seen over and over and over again in the united states. in the screen above that, what looked like military outfitted, but are probably police officers in camo. their helmets, vests, riot shields. the stuff that has become common
place as we fight the war of our times, which appears to be terrorism. coming up here in just a few seconds, we will start the 3:00 hour here on the east coast. it is 3:00 p.m. in the east, noon on the west coast, 9:00 p.m. local time in munich, germany. the scene of the latest at least mass shooting and potential of more than one shooting location within munich, germany. too early to label this anything but a shooting. too early to label this terrorism with any specificity but are people to the u.s. are monitoring german media. the state department police reports trying to find out more. the other