>> matt katz from wnyc, thanks for the time. appreciate it. >> sure, steve. >> that's going to do it for us tonight. the stereotype that every one of them is a gun-crazy nut job just looking for a target, which is not the case. we'll see you again tomorrow. but set that aside at the moment. the end of this story has to be and now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening to you, lawrence. is this or is this not >> tonight on "all in" -- >> with a crowd like that, if that's what they thought he meant, they'd have gone wild. >> the trump spin continues and so do republican defections. acceptable conduct for a major >> nothing you can do, folks. although the second amendment party candidate of the united states? people, maybe there is. >> tonight the trump campaign denying a report it has been contacted by secret service as a i think the obvious answer, not fall-out to the second amendment a matter of opinion, the obvious remarks continues. and why those remarks, jokes or answer is absolutely not. not, are so dangerous. plus, a new look at the increasingly grim electoral map that's not -- that's not who we are as a people. this is not what we're about as a society, as a country. for trump as the clinton and we'll see how this all plays out. campaign picks up more i've said to you before, i think donald trump can win the election. i think his chances are less now than they were maybe two weeks republican endorsements, and go before the khan sordid business and the gun business. but it would be a mistake to sets its sites on another deep think that the potential is not still there for him to get elected, to beat hillary red state. clinton. a lot of unexpected things can and back to baltimore. happen along the way. >> the findings are challenging but i have enough confidence in the american public.

to hear. you know, the american people >> the jaw-dropping doj findings are civil, decent people. yes, they sometimes feel on the baltimore police strongly about their politics or department when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, their ideology. i'm chris hayes. today a brief respite for donald trump of all the coverage about second amendment people acting to stop hillary clinton. instead, for a few hours, all but this kind of uncivil eye on trump tower where a indecent offensive and i agree climber was in the process of scaling the glass face of the building, using suction cups and with what one newspaper today said, with the gun statements. other equipment. police opened up a window lying in the climber's path and were eventually able to pull him donald trump moved from being offensive to being reckless. and you can't abide this kind of recklessness in a presidential campaign. i don't care what you call yourself, progressive, conservative, republican or democrat. >> of course donald trump denies it was a joke. but what he does is he denies that he said what he said. let's listen to his explanation >> tonight on "all in" -- tonight on fox news. >> what we're talking about is political power. there's tremendous political power to save the second amendment. tremendous. and you look at -- you know, you look at the power they have in terms of votes. and that's what i was referring to, obviously. that's what i was referring to. and everybody knows it.

>> so dan, he goes on fox news and he just lies about what he said. that's not what he said. and greta van susteren, no one at fox news argues with him about that. what is the right way for an interviewer to handle someone who's just going to lie about small planet compared to the what he said yesterday? universe, right? >> announcer: this is the last word on campaign 2016. though i am a murderer, i am not a liar. those are the words of a >> well, the way to do it is to self-confessed assassin. ask him a direct question and insist on a direct answer and to keep following up on the question. he surrendered on the spot to police after putting two bullets in the back of his target. very few people in television, and i fault myself some of the and the spot he surrendered on time, do it. was a political rally. you may ask the tough question. the interview subject does the and the spot where he was inspired to become an assassin old political side shuffle, was at another political rally. which is what donald trump's a boisterous, combative attempting to do here, and you move on. political rally of the candidate who he, the assassin, supported. it takes a kind of bore in, keep asking the question, if it takes the assassin's favored candidate had many rallies where the asking it 10, 12 times, ask it 10, 12 times until and unless it's clear the candidate is not opposing candidate was going to answer the question or delegitimized and dehumanized. fesses up that he has said a lie. and by the way, that's the operative word sometimes. i think many of us in television and instead of chants of "lock are too reluctant to use the word lie. her up" the crowd chanted we say misspoke himself or dealt "traitor" and "nazi." in ambiguity.

and were reminded of that today but you know, again, i'll come back to, i have great confidence by "new york times" non-partisan in the american people as a whole of being able to separate bull shine from brass tacks. columnist thomas friedman, in his reaction to what donald trump said yesterday about second amendment people doing something to stop hillary and when donald trump said what clinton after she is elected president. he said about guns, people get it. tom friedman's first sentence today was "and that, ladies and they know what he meant. gentlemen, is how israeli prime they also know it wasn't a joke. minister yitzchak rabin got and no amount of backfilling and side stepping is going to change assassinated." that. the current israeli prime now, one could hope and pray minister, benjamin netanyahu, that donald trump will was prime minister rabin's opponent in that campaign. and the "times" today described completely reboot his campaign netanyahu then as "a dressing a and stop saying these offensive and now reckless things. but i don't think that you're going to bet the rent money on that. >> dan, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i want to see donald trump do the dan rather interview. feverish right-wing rally from a balcony in jerusalem's zion square as protesters below that's the one i'm waiting for. shouted for the death of rabin thank you very much. >> thank you very much, the traitor." lawrence. >> coming up, donald trump under oath. how many times do you think donald trump got caught lying when he was put under oath? yitzchak rabin was depicted in a and paul ryan still won't nazi uniform then, the worst conceivable depiction of a jew anywhere. comment on donald trump's comments that he last night all because of this. pretended he hadn't heard about the second amendment people and hillary clinton.

yitzchak rabin had participated in negotiations with palestinian the democrat running against leader yasser arafat, paul ryan, trying to make negotiations that were brokered history by unseating the speaker by united states president bill of the house, will join us clinton. yigal amir, then a 25-year-old law student in israel, thought tonight for his first national interview. yitzchak rabin's dealings with the palestinians was a crime against the jewish people for which he, yigal amir, had the moral and in his view legal authority under religious jewish law to execute capital punishment against the prime minister. yigal amir believed prime minister rabin was putting the people of israel at risk and had to be stopped. donald trump tells his followers that hillary clinton has already put the united states at risk tired of re-dosing antacids? through the nuclear deal with try duo fusion! new, two in one heartburn relief. iran and countless other ways. the antacid goes to work in seconds... donald trump's version of calling hillary clinton a nazi and the acid reducer lasts up to 12 hours is to give her an imagined role in one chewable tablet. in creating the islamic state. try new duo fusion. in the feverish dementia of trump world, president obama and from the makers of zantac. secretary clinton are the at ally bank, no branches equals great rates.

founding father and founding mother of the islamic state. it's a fact. kind of like grandkids equals free tech support. this is donald trump's earlier tonight. oh, look at you, so great to see you! >> isis is honoring president obama. none of this works. come on in. he is the founder of isis. he's the founder of isis. okay? he's the founder. he founded isis. and i would say the co-founder would be crooked hillary clinton. co-founder, crooked hillary clinton. >> as that audience knows, the united states military has executed by drone and otherwise every founding member of isis they've been able to find. if donald trump's audience is as mentally unstable as he is, and keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. if millions of them are as he the natural world is a beautiful thing, would put it second amendment the work that we do helps us protect it. people, then donald trump is public education is definitely a big part of our job, telling millions of americans to teach our customers about the best type of trees with guns that hillary clinton to plant around the power lines. is one of the worst deadly

we want to keep the power on for our customers. enemies of the united states we want to keep our community safe. that we've ever had. this is our community, this is where we live. for shots to be fired all donald we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place trump needs is one person who for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. hears him, who believes him, who has access to guns, and who is as mentally unstable as donald trump is. just one. out of millions of trump supporters, donald trump and here's a look at how protesters were treated tonight countless republicans want trump at a donald trump rally in supporters in the rest of florida. >> we've got every group imaginable. i think we have the smartest people. i think we have among the most successful people. >> oh, yeah. america to believe that hillary the smartest people. most successful people. clinton already has blood on her hands because of the loss of how many times do you think four american lives in benghazi including hillary clinton's friend, ambassador chris donald trump lied -- not lied, stevens. got caught lying once he was put under oath about his lies? hillary clinton is now a convicted criminal, convicted in tweet us your answers. the court of trump, convicted by trump at trump rallies with the answer's coming up next. i love that my shop is part of the morning ritual around here. trump juries. the chant is not "indict her." the chant is "lock her up." the chant says we don't care that fbi agents and prosecutors have looked at hillary clinton's

state department e-mail arrangement and not been able to find a criminally prosecutable offense that they believe they could get a conviction on. the chant says we don't care about guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. people rely on that first cup and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. the chant does not say charge her with a crime, put her on i had trouble getting there on time. trial. the chant jumps past all of that then i found aleve pm. and says "lock her up." and every once in a while there's someone at a trump rally aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid who says "kill her." plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last into the morning. >> hang the bitch. ♪ look up at a new day... hey guys! now i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. >> israeli columnist shemi shalev wrote, "like the extreme right in israel, many republicans clearly ignore the a collection for the look of every eye concern. introducing new olay eyes. fact that words can kill. lift if anyone has doubts they could depuff use a short session with yigal brighten smooth amir, yitzchak rabin's assassin, or ultimately all of it. eyes express every emotion, not your age. new olay eyes. who was inspired by the rabid rhetoric hurled at the israeli ageless. prime minister." perfect driving record. until one of you clips a food truck. yigal amir was despised by most israelis after the assassination then your rates go through the roof.

perfect. but not all. for drivers with accident forgiveness, he had his supporters who liberty mutual won't raise your rates believed is that he did the due to your first accident. right thing for israel. liberty mutual insurance. the most important thing to yigal amir after he assassinated yitzchak rabin was that he did not want anyone to think he was crazy. he wanted everyone to know he thought carefully about firing he is not a politician. he is not a person like you who's very articulate, very well two hollow point bullets into spoken. yitzchak rabin's back and that he's a businessperson. >> you cannot say that a candidate running for president is not a politician. you can say that he's a rookie he had done it for good reason politician. because he was protecting the you can say he's only been a people of israel from a nazi, he politician for about a year. but you cannot defend a was protecting the people of israel from a traitor, an enemy of israel, he was saving israel politician by saying he's not a from yitzchak rabin. politician. he was doing what donald trump but that defense of donald trump says he has to do, save america will never die. from hillary clinton. even after he won 36 primaries yigal amir told israeli police, "i am at peace. as a politician. i did what many people wanted to even after his name will be on do. i am totally normal. the ballot in 50 states as the republican candidate for i do not want people to think that i am crazy.

president. otherwise, i will not achieve my goal." he's not a politician. that's the defenders' official the question for america tonight and the urgent question for the secret service tonight, which line. issued a worried statement about and that line allows them, they donald trump, about what donald think, to defend any lie that donald trump tells. trump said yesterday, is how many yigal amirs are there here? and it allows them to pretend that lies are not lies. the one place in donald trump's life where he hasn't been able who believe every word that to get away with lying is when donald trump says about hillary he is under oath in litigation. clinton, who believe when donald donald trump made the trump calls hillary clinton a monster that she is a monster, breathtakingly stupid mistake of suing tim o'brien, a "new york who believe when donald trump calls hillary clinton a devil times" reporter who wrote a book that she is the devil. about him. those are his words. and in that book said that donald trump lied about a lot of things, including his wealth. o'brien estimated that donald and that the devil must be trump's wealth is between 150 stopped. and 250 million dollars. nowhere near a billionaire. donald trump lost the lawsuit how many believe that? in this country of hundreds of but left behind a 170-page under oath deposition in which he was millions of guns and millions of at several points forced to donald trump supporters. admit several lies that he told in public as part of his millions of hillary clinton haters. what are the chances that donald routine. donald trump was being trump's feverish out of control language can stir up the questioned by highly experienced passions of a donald trump fanatic who hates hillary former federal prosecutors who clinton? were then in private practice

representing the publisher at no and has a gun. it only takes one. expense to the author. how many times did they catch donald trump lying when they put him under oath? one trump supporter. that's all it takes. rudy giuliani seems to think the trump rallies are filled with 30. potential assassins. they caught donald trump in 30 this morning he insisted that lies. and when he was caught lying, he said under oath in the deposition, "i'm no different donald trump did not in any way imply that hillary clinton from a politician running for should or could be assassinated, office. and then he said this. you always want to put your best >> with a crowd like that, if foot forward." that's what they thought he meant, they'd have gone wild. so much for donald trump not being a politician. >> so there's rudy giuliani joining us now, david cay johnson, pulitzer prize-winning saying donald trump's crowd journalist and columnist with would have gone wild if he had the daily beast. even more directly suggested the he has a new book out, "the assassination of hillary clinton. making of donald trump." the crowd would have gone wild. and also with us, charlie pearce, writer at large for "esquire." and it only takes one to go david cay, you've been stud really wild. studying a lot of this territory tim o'brien studied. joining us now is dan rather, this is your latest volume, i always have it with me now, "the former anchor of the cbs evening making of donald trump." news. this deposition is invaluable because it has donald trump

he is currently host of axs tv's "the big interview." under oath. he knows if he lies in the deposition he faces perjury charges. dan, when we're reaching for and so what they present to him historical precedent and in big is a bunch of public lies that historical moments like this, we turn to you. you were there in dallas on he has rattled off, and they force him under oath to admit that he was lying when he said november 22nd, 1963. those things publicly. you saw what this country went through in a presidential assassination. what are some of the gems in there? that anyone near our politics >> well, my favorites out of that deposition are frankly could have said anything like about how he's lied about his what donald trump said leaves us wealth. all reeling. he's asked about how do you determine your net worth? but for you, with your experience, it must have been and while this isn't quite a lie in the way you're talking about it, he says, well, my feelings. something truly unique. and he goes on at some length >> well, yes. that his feelings and what's it reminds me that, you know, happening that day and his mood, history is watching and history that determines his net worth. will judge. not just what donald trump says but what the american people decided, how we settle this election campaign. and he's suing tim o'brien over an issue of net worth, and it's what he feels like? but beginning in my adult lifetime with the assassination hey, you know what? it's been a good day, lawrence, of president john f. kennedy, we followed it with the i think i'm worth a billion dollars today. assassination of dr. martin how about you? luther king and with a lot of >> he publicly was very exploitative and incendiary definitive about one thing in

language used against dr. king, and again, it only took one, you his life that he never did. know. with robert kennedy, who was a he said he never, ever borrowed money from his father's estate, never, absolute zero. candidate for president, let us not forget, in 1968, was under oath he said, "i think a assassinated, it only took one. you respond by saying this is not just another sort of wild small amount a long time ago. donald trump statement. i think it was in the $9 million range." so charlie pearce, out there to the public, zero, never borrowed this is serious. because the rhetoric is the candidate. a penny from my old man, under oath only $9 million. it's no good saying, well, he doesn't mean these things or he doesn't think these things through or it's a joke, which by >> it's amazing what the effect the way i take special resentment to it's a joke. of putting your hand on a bible, this is not a joking matter. when that bible is backed up by and i never thought having gone a prison cell, will do for a through a lot of assassinations fella. yeah, you fastened, lawrence, on -- by the way, there was an attempt on presidential candidate george wallace's life one of my pet peeves, which is in the early 1970s as well. any politician who runs for an attempt on gerald ford's office claiming not to be a life. ronald reagan very nearly died politician. but even taking him at his word, from only one assassin. ever since he ran his mouth about the second amendment >> and all mentally unstable people the other day, i talked people. to dozens of people, none of >> yes. >> that's who's out there. whom are politicians, and none that's who's vulnerable to this.

>> exactly. of them would have said that. and among the side effects of what donald trump did by wink, >> yeah, exactly. and now to go -- going to the lying point, donald trump is now wink, wink. lying about what he said well, second amendment people may have to take care of hillary yesterday. clinton, paraphrase of it. a side effect of it is i grew up he could have used the insanity defense. we all would have accepted that. in texas, i grew up in a gun culture. he could have used the joke i know a lot of people who are defense, like paul ryan did. strong for the second amendment. very, very bad joke if it was a and what donald trump did was he joke. undercut a lot of decent instead he said i didn't say intending citizens who own guns what you heard me say. to make it so that it plays into let's listen to one of the trump audience members who's now become famous because he's the red shirt guy who we all saw behind donald trump. let's listen to the way he interpreted what donald trump said. >> i was thinking exactly what i said to my neighbor, connie, and that was, i can't believe he said it. the media will have a field day with this one. down here in the south we don't curse in front of women. we don't drink liquor in front of the preacher. and we don't make jokes like that in public.

but it was clear to my mind and to the people around me that he was trying to make a joke. >> so david, he sees it as a joke, but he also doesn't in any way confuse what donald trump was actually saying. >> but lawrence, he was obviously a plant paid to be there by the hillary clinton campaign. >> trump supporter, true blue -- a true red trump supporter. >> we're joking about this. but listen, donald's lies have led to violence. not just the violence he's called for and then denied but one of the upstate new york newspapers has a story about a guy wearing a trump shirt who was beaten and attacked. he is unleashing terrible forces in this country, and it's going to get worse. let's assume the media suddenly says we're not going to cover these things. that won't have any effect here. he has now let the dogs loose. and there is going to be trouble down the road. and i don't know what you do to stop this once you have done what donald has done, which is signal to people that it's okay

to carry out a crime that donald wouldn't himself do, he wants you to do for his benefit. >> charlie, donald trump used to primarily avoid any interview on primetime here on msnbc. he's never done it. but he's now limiting himself almost exclusively to fox news, where it's going to be all softball. greta van susteren had the softballs in her hand tonight. she allowed donald trump to tell the lie about what he said yesterday with absolutely no comeback from greta van susteren at all. >> yeah. i think by november he's going to be appearing exclusively on ham radio sets in upper michigan, which will be all right because we'll all be able to hear him in our teeth. no, i think david came to a very good point there, and i sensed this actually in 2012. and it goes back further than that. it certainly goes back to the first inauguration of this particular president.

there's a wildness and an untamed element to american conservative politics that's gotten worse over the last 20 years, and it's sort of like this free-floating dark energy that's been looking for a focus, a focal point over the last two or three cycles. and boy, it found one this time. i'll tell you what. i went to a donald trump rally, the first one i ever went to, in lowell, massachusetts almost a year ago, and it was flat terrifying. it really was. >> david cay johnson, charlie pierce, thank you both for joining us. i appreciate it. coming up, when was the last time the speaker of the house lost his own congressional re-election in his own district? i can remember it vividly as if it was yesterday. so it's not 200 years ago. the man trying to repeat history is now running against paul ryan, and he will join us. olay regenerist renews from within...

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it's only happened once. well, it's happened more than once. but only once in the 20th century. only once in modern american history has the speaker of the house been defeated in his re-election campaign in his home district. >> for the leading congressional democrat it was insult added to injury. tom foley not only lost his job as house speaker, he lost his congressional seat as well, conceding this afternoon.

>> joining us now for his first national interview, the man who wants to pull off that miracle once again, ryan solen, winner of the democratic primary in wisconsin who now has the honor of running against house speaker paul ryan in the general election. mr. solen, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you for the opportunity. i appreciate it. >> what is your pitch to voters in that district, why they should get rid of the most powerful member of congress representing them now. >> the idea behind it all is that paul ryan has been ineffective speaker of the house at this point. he's had an awful lot of opportunity. he's been in office for a long time. and he just has not been as effective as he should be. we are trying to make progress on an awful lot of issues, and so far it's just been gridlock. and being the ranking member of the republican party, he should be doing more. >> it's really quite striking that as speaker he's the leader of a party whose mission is to

actually do nothing. they don't want to pass appropriations bills. they don't want government spending going out there into these districts. so historically, speakers have been really big benefactors to their own district, and he leads a party that is basically opposed to delivering anything to anyone. >> yes, you are correct in that assessment. i think we've been waiting for a while. we've gone through a really rough time as far as economics have gone. i know there have been claims that the economy is bouncing back. you could take the dow jones and use that as an estimate. but the fact of the matter is the people themselves i don't think are feeling that. they're still looking for more. >> let's listen to what paul ryan said last night in defense of donald trump. >> i heard about the second amendment quote. it sounds like just a joke gone bad. you should never joke about

something like that. i didn't actually hear the comments. i only heard about those comments. >> what was your reaction to that? >> well, my first reaction would be to donald trump. i really am trying to figure out what his end game is here. i don't think that that's appropriate, to even be joking about, for an office that he's aspiring to, it's totally inappropriate. and for the speaker of the house to say it was just a joke gone bad i think that needs to be retracted. >> what is ahead for you in this campaign? do you think there will be a debate in this campaign against paul ryan? >> i certainly hope so. we've actually contacted the paul ryan campaign and have asked for a debate. so far we have not heard anything back. but i'm hoping that we will have one soon. >> do you have any disagreements with hillary clinton in terms of her platform and the programs that she wants to advance through congress? >> right now i think that she's got a very solid platform.

i know she said she's going to adopt some of bernie sanders' additional issue items, and i think that's going to go a long way toward healing the apparent rift that occurred earlier on. i really think that she's got great chances and good opportunities to make a difference in the country. >> ryan solen, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> coming up, there is a new candidate for president. he's a republican. he's a mormon. no one's ever heard of him, which is the down side. but those two other factors, republican and mormon, means that donald trump is in more trouble than he already was in utah. hillary clinton might be the first democrat to win utah since 1964. and hillary clinton has more republican states leaning her way now. all of that is in tonight's campaign war room.

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>> announcer: this is "the last word" on campaign 2016. 42 years ago this week our politics and our government went through something that it's never gone through before and may never go through again. a crisis like we have never seen. a crisis that has lessons for the age of trump. but first, here's how it looked today on the campaign trail. >> this is not a normal election. >> hillary will be a horror show. and i'm going to be an unbelievable positive. >> in the first 100 days of my administration we will make the biggest investment in new jobs, good-paying jobs since world war ii. >> take a look at the promises she made as a senator from new york and the job she was going to create. take a look at what happened. it is a wasteland, what's happened up there. >> i believe in small business. that's why i want to be a small business president. and that's a big contrast with donald trump who has spent his career stiffing small

businesses. >> look at the bad decisions that she's made. >> more e-mails have come to light today that seemed to provide direct evidence that favors were done by state department officials for foreign donors to the clinton foundation. that's the old pay to play system the american people are sick and tired of, and donald trump and i are going to bring it to a crashing end. >> look at the bad judgment. and now we're going to put her in charge of our country? we won't have a country left. >> trump's belief that he alone can fix america's problems is so contrary to who we are as a nation. >> politicians will tell me you can't build a wall. really? you can build a wall? i've built 90-story buildings. building a wall, boy is that easy. >> i am humbled and moved by the republicans who are willing to stand up and say donald trump doesn't represent their values.

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what did you have for lunch today? was it better than this? that lunch was ordered by a guy who could have had anything he wanted. the president of the united states. and it was his last lunch in the white house. he obviously didn't have the stomach for much that day. richard nixon's last days and nights in the white house were a nightmare while an impeachment investigation was closing in on him in the congress. the day before his last lunch he had a final meeting with his cabinet, pictured here. he insisted to them then that he would not resign. and three days later on august 9th, 1974, richard nixon resigned and waved good-bye to washington forever as he boarded a helicopter on the white house lawn. several months before that richard nixon defended himself this way. >> let me just say this. and i want to say this to the television audience. i made my mistakes. but in all of my years of public life i have never profited,

never profited from public service. i've earned every cent. and in all of my years of public life i have never obstructed justice. and i think too that i can say that in my years of public life that i welcome this kind of examination because people have got to know whether or not their president is a crook. well, i'm not a crook. i've earned everything i've got. >> it was a stunning word choice for the president. crook. "i'm not a crook." and anyone who heard that never forgot it. in those days, as suspicious as everyone had the right to be about criminality in the nixon white house, we lived in a pre-trumpian world of politics in which none of richard nixon's opponents in congress had called him a crook. richard nixon is the first elected official to use the word

"crook" in relation to richard nixon. throughout that crisis in the white house, civility prevailed in washington even though crimes were committed. prior to donald trump, american politics was capable of dealing with terrible things, with criminal conduct in the white house, with a presidential resignation. and doing it without the political leaders of either party name calling or suggesting that the solution to the problem maybe should be left to second amendment people. >> hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. by the way, if she gets to pick -- [ boos ] if she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks. although the second amendment people, maybe there is. i don't know. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day,

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time for tonight's war room. hillary clinton is reaching out to voters in a state that has not been won by a democrat in 52 years. utah. a new poll of utah voters shows donald trump at 37. hillary clinton at 25. gary johnson at 16. that's high for him. jill stein at 1. anti-trump candidate evan mcmullin, who was born in utah, also hopes to appear on the utah ballot now as a presidential line. he could take votes from donald trump. here's what he said on "morning joe" earlier this week. >> as a former cia officer i deeply believe that donald trump harms the strength and prosperity of this country. donald seeks to divide us. he seeks to pit us against each other one race and religion against the other. this is the work of our adversaries. this is the work of vladimir putin. and as i say, it is the work of donald trump. >> with 89 days left for the campaign war rooms, joining us

tonight on the "the last word" war room rick ward, a republican strategist helping evan mcmullin in that campaign. also karine jean-pierre. a veteran of martin o'malley's presidential war room. you've got a foot back in the war room in this campaign. just a little by bio stuff on evan mcmullin. he is mormon. he is from utah. he worked on the hill for a while for republicans, worked in the cia before that. it looks like he can get on the utah ballot because you've got to do it by august 15th. it's only 1,000 signatures. but a lot of deadlines are going to be impossible for him in a bunch of states. how many ballots do you think he can get on? >> we've got a strategy for very wide ballot access, lawrence. and even in some of the states where the deadlines have passed we have a ballot strategy to engage with minor party ballot access in those states. and with appeals to some of those deadlines in those states. and if that fails we feel like we've got a very good litigation case to make to open up access, including some of the noted

legal scholars in the country who said that a lot of these things have simply been untested and we're about to go test them. but we've got a team of junkyard dog lawyers and a campaign expert who are going to go out in these states, in the states where we still have time we're going to be out there doing the petition route. we're going to be getting out in those states, doing the third party ballot route. we've got a few other tricks up our sleeve in that regard as well. >> careen, so here we have the alternative on the ballot for republicans in utah. gary johnson's doing -- outperforming his national numbers in utah. now we have evan mcmullin coming along. presumably, they will take votes away from donald trump. and by the way, hillary clinton is an alternative to donald trump for a bunch of republicans in utah too. interviews in the "new york times" today saying that they will vote for hillary clinton to very specifically prevent trump from becoming president.

this is the state that the clinton campaign is now taking very seriously. >> yeah, which i think is a very smart strategy. we saw that they did an op-ed. hillary clinton did an op-ed in one of the local papers out in utah. and look, donald trump is running one of the most offensive, divisive campaigns of all time. so it's not surprising that she's appealing to disaffected republican voters, independent voters, which is like i said a very smart strategy. look, at the end of the day this game is going to be won on the ground. you've got to get 270 electoral colleges. and you know, because of this hate-filled campaign that donald trump is running the democrats actually have a clearer path to getting 270. but not only that, they could expand the electorate as well. >> let's listen to what donald trump said about mitt romney, who is one of the great admired political figures in utah. let's listen to this. >> for a guy that really let us

down, this poor mitt romney, it's sad, he's going around saying oh, oh -- [ boos ] he choked. you know what i choke artist is? right? you know what a choke -- you know when a guy misses the kick you get rid of him. you bring another one in, right? because you don't want that thought going in his head too much. he choked. >> rick wilson, it seems to me the only strategy for donald trump to try to win utah is to stay out of utah and not let them hear his voice and just hope that the word "republican" beside his name gets him the win there. >> lawrence, that's increasingly true everywhere in the country. i mean, if you're sitting in the donald trump war room, which i think basically is his twitter account, and you're looking at the map right now -- >> it's a guy in pajamas with ice cream and a twitter machine. >> pretty much. you'd be feeling a lot of depression if you were donald trump because he's being soundly rejected by the american people across the board. that's why evan thinks he's got a moment here that utah and beyond, where we can offer people a different alternative

to the trump disaster. and frankly a different alternative to hillary clinton as well. we'll see how we do. but we feel like there's a moment here. >> karine, the clinton campaign has to decide where it's going to seriously invest resources hoping for i win. and then there's another decision to make. where are they going to put in some resources hoping to force donald trump to spend some time there and take donald trump away from more important states where he should be campaigning? >> well, what's very interesting that's happening is there are states that have been heavily republican for some time now that are potentially possibly in play. it looks like arizona, which is heavily latino. latino population. georgia, which has a large african-american population. and north carolina, which president obama won in 2008 but lost in 2012. and remember, the first stop that he made, the first campaign stop that he made for hillary clinton was in charlotte, north

carolina. so there are definitely opportunities there for the hillary campaign to kind of focus on to make the trump campaign focus in on more. >> karine jean-pierre and rick wilson, thank you both for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> thanks, lawrence. >> we'll be right back with the last word. guess what i just did? built a sandcastle? ha, no, i switched to geico and got more. more? 24/7 access online, on the phone or with the geico app. that is more. go get some mud... all that "more" has to be why they're the second-largest auto insurer. everybody likes more. mhm, i think so. geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more. i'start at the new carfax.comar. show me minivans with no reported accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com.

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oh, and by the way, they said my wife melania might have come in illegally. can you believe that one? no, no, no. they said, headlines, maybe she came in illegally. maybe. let me tell you one thing. she has got it so documented. so she's going to have a little news conference over the next couple of weeks. that's going to -- i love it. i love it. >> prediction. melania trump will never have the news conference that donald trump just promised she would have. and we will be cataloging one more lie in the trump campaign when that doesn't happen as we expect it not to happen. that's "the last word" for tonight. our live coverage continues now with chris hayes, who's going to take us to midnight. >> second amendment people.

let's play "hardball." >> we've been watching this scene in new york at the trump tower where a climber climbed the glass side of the building that serves as the headquarters of the trump campaign. it is also where the trumps live. anyway, moments ago police grab that had guy and pulled him into that open window. we're going to get all the day's news and the political news including the fallout from trump's comments yesterday.