because folks, celebrities, no matter how famous they are, no matter how many accomplishments or gold medals they have, they are people too. their families are people too. they hurt too. mary, thanks for coming on me. >> even i stand with leslie. >> and i stand with her and gabby. i'm chris jansing. "mtp daily" starts now. >> next thursday, gop future in flux. >> tonight, hillary clinton on the attack, accusing donald trump of a steady stream of bigotry. >> donald trump built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia. >> trump pushes back. >> they are left with only this one tired argument. you're racist, you're racist, you're racist. >> plus, will trump supporters stand behind his stunning flip-flop on immigration.
>> who would know it would be donald trump to come forward and convert the gop base. to supporting amnesty. >> and john mccain's last stand. what next week's arizona senate primary could tell us about the future of the gop. this is "mtp daily" and it start right now. what to make of where the republican party is headed, pretty much our entire show is dedicated to this issue. i'm chuck todd is washington. welcome to "mtp daily." a fire storm that's been ignited between donald trump and hillary clinton. now you will hear the term alt-right in this campaign. with what is it? who's part of it in what does it potentially signal about the future of the republican party? we will dive into that, i promise. right now hillary clinton is trying to define it herself. she wants to call alt-right a
trump filled movement built on white spremists. clinton is looking to drive a wedge between mainstream republicans and their candidate. here is clinton in nevada moments ago. >> i is taking hate groups mainstream and helping a radical fringe take over the republican party. the paranoid fringe now calls itself alt-right. >> there's always been a paranoid fringe in our politics. a lot of it arising from racial resentment. but it's never had the nominee of a major party stoking it, encouraging it and giving it a national megaphone until now. >> also today, the clinton campaign released this explosive web ad. it highlights kkk members and other white nationalists who voice support for donald trump. >> donald trump will be best for the
job for president. >> yes. >> i'm farmer and white
nationalist, support donald trump. >> sending up all of the elite, building wall, and moratorium on islamic immigration. that's very appealing to a lot of ordinary white people. >> running against donald trump at this point is really treason to your heritage. >> trump campaign did something they don't usually do. they swiftly fired back. pastor mark burns and statement for the campaign called the video in part called disgusting, horrific, repulsive, revolting, completely beyond the pale. i call on hillary clinton to disevow this video. trump responded to it this afternoon. >> when democratic policies fail, they are left with only this one tired argument. you're racist, you're racist, you're racist. they keep saying it. you're racist. it's a tired disgusting argument. and it's so totally predictable.
>> folks, if you're wondering if that clinton ad was interesting to new history,
well it's strikingly similar to an ad that president johnson's campaign made against barry gold water in 1964. it is an ad by the way that never actually aired. here is a clip of it. >> we represent the majority of the people in alabama who hate [ bleep ], catholicism, judaism and all of the isms of the world. said the kkk. i like barry gold water, he needs our help. >> right now he are seeing a battle to define this alt-right movement and make trump own the most egregious parts of it. who is alt-right? depend on who you ask. the term alt-right has a web publication called alternative right.com. spencer called for a form of peaceful ethnic cleansing. spencer is also a trump supporter. >> donald trump asked these big
questions like are we a nation? well, if we're a nation, we are a people. we're going to have borders. we will control those borders. >> there are certainly strains of white nationalist thinking at play in the alt-right movement for its part the anti-defamation league defined alt-right as a movement to quote embrace explicit or explicit racism or white supremacy. but some mainstream republicans diagree. hugh hewitt says quote i define the alt-right much more brd broadly as a reflexively anti-gop right.oadly as a reflexively anti-gop right. however you define it, the trump campaign says they want nothing to do with it. >> you said the term campaign as a platform for the alt-right movement? >> no, we never even discussed it internally. it is not part of our strategy
meetings. it is not something trump says out on the stump. >> these movement are not new. in the 1960s it was the john birch society. it was denounced and purged from the party essentially. it won't just be this election cycle, it could be lasting well beyond it. in fact i'm joined by two of my colleagues. out with a new nbc news special feature "beyond trump, where will the republican party go after 2016." benji, i will start with you. dealing with the nationalist, whatever you want to call it, nationalist, isolationist movement, there is this growing wing of the republican party that is anti-business, anti-internationalism and essentially
anti-multiculturalism. >> there are a lot of elements just as with the john birch society purged from the party to some degree. not views that normal republican politicians were expected to hold at least not if they were expected to maintain the ordinary level of support from donors and party leaders. but trump has become a magnet for these people. and one question is whether this is a permanent fae fewer of the landscape. even after the election, even if trump loses, some of the forces will still be influencing the party and pushing them in directions some leaders don't want to go right now. we saw on hillary clinton's speech bringing up the issue of breitbart. that's not going away after this election, chuck. >> leanne, former head of breitbart and steve bannon now the ceo of the trump campaign, and a lot of people assume that he is going to want to build this movement beyond the trump campaign. win or lose. >> that's absolutely right. that's what the party will have
to deal with. are they going to accept this component of the party to say that it is actually a part of american culture and it is, they do tend to vote republican, are they going to bring them into the party, try to maybe mainstream them or appeal to them. especially on economic issues and maybe immigration as well. or are they going to try to purge the party and with steve bannon coming into this campaign, and i think that's why hillary clinton has really made sure or gave this speech today because that cemented trump's involvement with this movement. and hillary clinton kind of legitmized this whole on-line alt-right today by making this major speech. now it is giving the republican party a bigger headache on how they deal with this come november 8th, november 9th, with trump or without. >> benji, there have been high profile republicanes who have
gone after the alt-right movement including paul ryan. >> that's right. paul ryan seems to be somewhat unaware of this for a while until it showed up at his doorstep. >> literally. >> a challenge from paul kneelened who had extensive backing from places like breitbart. ann culter, very associated with this and paul kneelened, trump talked about a muslim bam. paul talked about possibly deporting all muslims who are here now. very fringe figure. but he got that support from places like breitbart. a lot of republicans are slowly just waking up to this. this is a big movement. hillary clinton is asking them in the heat after general election campaign, when a lot of people on their side don't like the idea of agreeing with the democratic nominee running against them, less than 7 r5 days before election, she is is asking those republicans to purge this movement. say i do not agree with them and they are not republicans and not conservatives. it is issuing a challenge and something they have to figure out now and figure out after the
election as well. >> leanne, it does seem as if you talked about do they co-op them in some way or try to find a couple of issues that can be a uniting front. that's what happened with the tea party essentially. a and one could argue they did successfully co-op them. but maybe not. did tea partiers turn to alt-right? >> that's right. the party was separate before trump. and new they are more divided. so what could happen past november based on many interviews with did, benji and i did, for big pieces out today, one of the things that could happen is just a stalemate. so you have the tea party faction and you have the traditional fiscal conservative faction. you have the social conservatives that have already been dividing, been portions of the party, but then it becomes more complicated because have
you this populist alt-right movement of the donald trump party that they also have to contend with. >> all right, much more to talk about, but i have to leave it there. check out your great work at nbcnews.com. thank you. >> thank you, chuck. >> joined now, elder staitsman, my apologies, for calling you elder at this point. but your political career does span decades. i have to ask you this, i'm old enough to remember when you were not a mainstream conservative. what do you make the alt-right? >> first of all, i'm amazed what just heard. you take a supposed nationalist white supremacist group and generalize it, and say it is a component of the republican party, which it is not. and expand and speculate by your two reporters that it is a big movement, and it's not.
the reason hillary clinton gave the speech she gave is to take focus off of the ap story about pay to play at the secretary of state's office. just think, let's do it in reverse. are there be in the progressive movement and democratic party, absolutely. are there far left fringe people in the democratic party? this is all -- this is all just to shift away from what the real facts are in the race. this isn't a big component. tea party is not a factor because the tea party became just like every other movement surrounded about money and all about making money all about doing things. the people that supported the people are still there. so what's going on in america, the discussion we just had about alt-right, it is -- and as far as significant -- >> so it is a fringe? total fringe? >> total fringe. and in theomnent of the
donald trump movement, it is what's out there and you're always going to hear from them. and he may enliven some of their conversation but he doesn't embrace it and nobody else that is mainstream republican or conservative republican or liberty-loving republican or anything else embraces it. >> that's what is sort of a -- i guess, senator, that is what is head-scratching about this. you're right. no major republican office holder, no one seems to embrace it. a lot of mainstream republicans aren't embracing this. but donald trump did hire the head of breitbart and breitbart is a news organization that has been fuelling this movement. >> that's just like saying if somebody hires you, chuck, and nbc's viewpoint politically is far left anyway, so therefore you -- >> let me stop you there -- senator, wait a minute. that's -- that is not true. i don't know where you are coming up with an ideological -- >> i want nbc, cnbc, msnbc, i
see the viewpoint. i'm not in politics any more. i'm sitting out as a citizen. i'm involved in the only thing that will actually solve the problems of our country. and it doesn't have anything to do with the presidential race. >> tell me what -- let me give you a form here on this front. >> i'll be happy to say. do you think it matters who is the president other than in supreme court nominees? do you think our budget will get balanced you? think our freedom will get enhanced? you think our liberty will be protected? absolutely not. only thing that will fix our country is a convention of states where we rebalance the relationship between the three branches of the federal government and rebalance the state of the federal government. today 65% of all decisions in every state are mandate bade bureaucrat from washington. 35% of the states actual get to make decisions on their budget and their policy. so that isn't anything close to what our founders designed. it isn't anywhere close to what the balance of power is supposed
to be between the states. and the way you fix that is to restore that balance of power. and the convention of states will do that. and we will have that -- >> so you want to open up and amend the u.s. constitution? >> yes, sir. and very specific ways. and that's exactly what we are planning to do. eight states have passed it and we will have 25 in the next 18 months. and pretty soon we will have 34. and you all will see us actually take back our powers, individual citizens and rebalance the role of the federal government. >> let me ask you, you're making an argument that a republican congress and republican presidency couldn't do that? >> nobody can fix what's wrong with our federal government today. it is out of control because it is out of balance. it is out of balance in terms of executive branch, congress totally been castrated in terms of the federal government. and false premise for new
decisions all the time i was in 21 states last year, cluchuck. the american citizens have had it. you will see more and more boil up unless we fix the problems and resecure the problems the country were supposed to give us. >> senator, we will watch for that constitutional convention. it is something i've been keeping an eye on. >> it is not a constitutional -- >> why don't call it that -- >> because it's not. we are only looking at specific areas. constitutional can write the whole thing. we are looking at three specific areas only. called convention of states. article 5 in our constitution. we have the right of states to call a convention. >> as i said, i know there's been this movement to follow. we will follow it and i imagine my guess is next summer that something becomes a bigger and bigger deal. >> might be able to get there. >> always nice to talk to you sir. >> chuck, good to talk to you. >> coming up, donald trump's immigration flip-flop has some of his supporters flipping their
lids. reaction from one of trump's long time congressional supporters. and later how john mccain ended up in no man's land ideal logically thanks to donald trump's presidential run. stay tuned. hillary clinton: i'm hillary clton d i approve this message. vo: in times of crisis america dends on steady leadership. donald trump: "knock the crap out of them, would you? seriously..."vo: clear thinking... donald trump: "i know more about isis than the generals do, believe me." vo:
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we have no choice. we have a country where we either have borders or we don't. the wall is very important. but so i'll be making a speech on that. i would say over the next week. laying out an exact plan and i think people will have great respect. >> immigration of course is one of trump's signature issues throughout his campaign and supporters, many of them, love him for it. last night we heard what seemed almost like a full-on reversal on the promise to deport the estimated 11 to 12 million undocumented immigrants in the country. >> everybody agrees we get the bad ones out. when i go through and i meet thousands and thousand of people on the subject and i've had p people come up to me, great people come up to me and they said mr. trump i love you, but to take a person that's been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and family out, it is so tough, mr. trump. i have it all the time.
it is a very, very hard thing. >> if you think that sound familiar, it does. it sounds like the position trump taked bush and rubio for during the primary. this apparent flip-flop has republicans crying foul. rush limbaugh stifled his laughter. >> first they tried marco rubio. they tried the gang of 8. they tried jeb bush. they tried any number of people. to convince -- they tried me. they tried everybody they could think of to try to convince the republican base to support some form of amnesty. who knew that it would be donald trump. to come forward and convert the gop base. to supporting amnesty. >> ann coulter, one of trump's most outspoken supporters is out
with a new book called "in trul. we trust." she writes the following. there is nothing trump can do to be forgiven except change immigration policies, unquote. faced with that scenario, coulter has softened her own language. here is what she told the washington examiner in an interview published earlier today. >> mostly worries me rhetorically, the policy is, anyone who is here illegally is here illegally. does not have a right to be here. we will decide whether it is in our interest to let them stay or not. perhaps it is in our interest to let some of them stay. >> joining me now, congressman and supporter chris collins. congressman, thank you for being here. earlier i think you called it rhetorical deportation. correct me if i'm wrong. explain this to me. what's the difference now with this policy compared to jeb bush's? >> well, one thing i will tell you, trump has never waiver owned securing borders and
forcing current immigration laws. with that said and i've been here for six months talking about a compassionate america and i have an agricultural district and we milked the cows three times a day and crop farmers and so we have to have a way to deal with what is 18 million potentially illegal immigrants here. many performing jobs, americans will not perform. so what i'm hearing is an evolution of sorts. donald trump is ceo, used to in the board room and other places, hearing views coming at him. it is the way a ceo operates. as you've heard other donald trump speeches whether on tax reform or veterans issue and the like, he is getting a lot of good advice. he is listening and i think when he comous with his final speech on immigration there will be the compassionate speech that speaks to areas certainly if the agricultural world, with dairy farmers and crop farmers. it is not amnesty. anyone who says it is, it is
not. it is not citizenship for those who entered the country illegally. some have been raising a family, performing a function, in the agricultural world, and taking illegal immigrant, processing them, getting legal work papers. come out of the shadows. we foe who they are. they pay taxes and become legal immigrants with work papers. not citizenship. i think it is a good healthy response, and something you would expect a ceo to do as all campaigns evolve. >> but there is evolution and then this. i will play an excerpt of a trump attack ad against ted cruz. >> i want immigration reform to pass. and that allows those who are here illegally to come in out of the shadows. >> that is pro amnesty. what you described is similar to ted cruz's position on immigration. similar to marco rubio.
and maybe when it comes to path to citizenship there are disagreements among some inside the republican party. but particularly ted cruz. he invice rated cruz over this exact position. i understand evolution but isn't this hypocrisy at this point? >> no. i wouldn't use that word, chuck. the day that matters is today and i'll even say i'm happy that hillary clinton is finally opposed to the trance pacific partnership. something earlier on she was in favor of. i got think bernie sanders helped push her to the right decision to oppose tpp. every campaign evolves, chuck, especially going from primary to a general a more and more advisers are stepping up, as donald trump reaches up to members of congress. reaching out to different industry groups. in this case, agriculture, gathering information. it is healthy sign, whether tax reform as well. you have seen shifts there after paul ryan weighed in. this is a healthy move and i
applaud it. and i think the republican party in america will as well as donald trump was moving forward and as our next president and you see hillary clinton's campaign just falling apart and especially with that disgusting speech she gave today. >> let me show you poll numbers we took a year ago. these were just republican primary voters. and among those folks who were inclined to support trump or consider voting for trump, majority believed that the best path forward was deportation. among nontrump supporting republicans you had essentially majority saying either a pathway to citizenship or legal status. but deportation was the third choice in that. so is there a risk here congressman, that donald trump amost furveant supporters in the primaries throw up their hands and walk away. you heard rush limbaugh broke out in laughter over this. >> i would say, chuck, there is no way any trump supporters is ever going to support hillary
clinton the most dishonest person to ever run for office self-serving, all about putting the clinton family first, not america first. as we move forward practically speaking to deport 18 million people to ask them to come out of the shadows, to get on a bus to be taken out of this country perhaps for further processing, i don't believe that was ever workable. i've said that for six months. i think where we are today, getting them out of the shad, processing them, these here legally are here with families living -- >> do you believe you influenced donald trump to soften his position? >> well i can't say that. i would hope perhaps. i have been in this position for over six months now. and to any extent, i do chat with mr. trump. but he makes his own decision answers i think after he has reviewed all of the data as ceo does, he has seen certainly the agricultural world and in the
compassion that america we are, that it would appear his stance is shifting in the direction i'm happy to see. and i believe all republicans are as well. >> congressman chris collins. you're showing off your western new york roots there. i believe you have a buffalo tie on there. well played, sir. >> i do. i did that op purpose. >> well played. thanks for coming on. always a pleasure to hear your views. perry baker, eliana johnson and steve mcman. eliana, has donald trump flip-flopped? >> of course, i think this shows he has been a tet for many members of the republican party. many people supporting him. for hard liners they saw immigration hard liner and believed that as they are he also was a true believer in immigration hawk and now this is the issue that arguably drove him to success if the primary and they are seeing now that he is willing to sell them down the
river and i think really having to come to terms with it, i can tell you that immigration hawks, knowledgeable policy hawk, hawks who have advised trump are furious today. >> perry, i can't tell you how shocking it is, number one because of steve bannon's presence. number two because of steven miller's presence. who is perhaps the best policy mind of the immigration debate there is from capitol hill who went to the trump campaign. so to see, knowing who he is surrounding himself with and it makes it that more stunning. >> and so fascinating. congressman collins comparing trump's shift to hillary on the tpp. mocking hillary for months for flip-flopping for strategic reasons, i was shocked. trump's supporters saying changing view from the primary to general, mitt romney did, he get very criticized. >> you know how much trump respects romney. >> and the trump is for the wall.
if he drops the wall there is a whole different moment. but this is a huge flip-flop still. >> i think somebody wrote, my pal at abc, rick cline, took his immigration policy and shot it in the middle of fifth avenue. >> right. >> he is testing the premise. testing the premise of how die hard are his supporters. >> and congressman liked the comparison of the ceo. if the ceo. done this he would be indicted for fraud. this is fraud in inducement. there is a legal term when you make a promise to somebody. you get something of value from them. as a result of that promise. then you break it. this is what got him in trouble at trump university. i suspect it'll get him in trouble with his own supporters. >> i say successful leaders in any field have core principles and core beliefs. i think people are seeing that trump has done. >> i guess the only flip -- that goes back to 87.
if he flipped on trade, perry, then that point it proves every criticism which ted cruz's chief terrorism and he has in ideological core. >> i don't know where he is exactly. moving away from that issue. wall he is still with. trade. if he became more politically correct, that would be a big flip as well. trump supporters, i would argue, have nowhere to go. they can stay home. they think he is in a position to move now. >> steve, long time strategist, that has to be the case kellyanne made to him. it clear to me, that the polling mind in her, she has seen they've lost a chunk of republican vote they have to get back. republican vote. immigration and the issues about race with hispanics and african-americans seem to be what she is telling him, you have to fix this. >> that's right. those of us that watch for living and for a sport, you have to see whether bannon is winning
or kellyann is winning. and jeb bush had to wake up and say, can you believe i lost to this guy? >> i can't believe he came out with interview earlier from rita cosby. what is the rest of the national review going to say? >> all right. you guys will come back and we will have more on the other side of the half hour. speaking of the future of the republican party, might be the race of john mccain's career. and luke warm love for trump and then again trump's immigration stance might help mccain. we will talk with a trump supporter trying to unseat the senator. stay tuned. the no.1 choice of dentists. compared to oral-b 7000, philipsonicare flexcare platinu removesignificantly more plaque. th is the sound of sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. hear the difference? get healthier gums in just 2 weeks vs a manual toothbrush
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there's a lot more on "mtp daily" ahead. but first, the cnbc market wrap. >> thanks, chuck. the the dow falling and s&p falling and nasdaq down. news breaking after the "closing bell" a jury in texas finding the general motor admission switch was not to blame for 2011 crash that killed one driver and injured another. gm shares were unchanged in after hours trading. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. my eyelove is season 1, episode 1.
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primary fight, perhaps, of his political career tuesday. and donald trump put him arguably in ideal logically no man's land. supporting trump as the nominee but not his action answers positiones. mccain would like to distance himself interest trump in a general election but he has it get to the election first and not supporting trump in a primary could put the nomination in jeopardy. trump took 14 of 15 count ice in the arizona republican primary. he won by a lot. mccain's faced challenges from the right before but this time it seems he is more nervous over this challenger. his campaign is out with an ad and hits the challenger. kelly ward on national security. ward has help herself. a pac back bade trump mega donor is out with ads of its own hitting mccain on immigration. immigration has been a hot topic just this week and today joining me now is mccain's republican primary opponent in arizona. kelli ward, welcome to the show.
>> thanks for having me. great to be here. >> let me start with donald trump on immigration. and ask you, do you believe he has flip-flopped? >> you know, i think the media is making a lot out of nothing. we haven't heard donald trump's policy statement on immigration. he is still preparing that. so i'm looking forward to seeing what it is. i know for me i'm ready to mix the mortar to fix the border. this is national security and it has to be the first thing we do. has to be first and foremost. >> okay. so you want the wall, i guess that. but let me ask you on the 11 to 12 and you heard congressman collins, you may not have heard, you but he believes 18 million undocumented folks in this country. what do you do? is your policy everyone has to be deported? >> you know, that's why we have to do border security first. that is a multiprong aid proech. a physical border. physical barrier. it has to be use of technology. and empowering our border patrol to dot job they were hired to
two which is to keep people from coming in illegally. turn off the goodies like dr. carson said on the campaign trail. touring off free housing, free education, free health care. those i things. and finally, holding employers accountable if they hire someone illegally. those things have to be done first and foremost and people then who are here illegally will just leave. >> you have the mitt romney stance. you believe in self deportation. you don't think it has to be -- that's what you just described. >> i wouldn't call it the mitt romney anything. i call it the conservative viewpoint. cleaning up the immigration mess created by john mccain and teddy kennedy over the last several decades. we have to do border security first. secure the border, national security, then worry about cleaning up the mess they all created. >> one of the things you hit john mccain on is for supporting libya.
was iraq the right call? is going into iraq the right call after 9/11. >> at least iraq was a constitutional intervention because congress did approve of that. we went in and did get rid of a dictator, very bad man. however we created a vacuum filled by radical islamic elements and then didn't learn from that. and then we, you know, got involved in libya and egypt and now syria. that vacuum is becoming bigger and and big eager and bigger. john mccain and hillary clintons invade the world, invite the world foreign policy that made our world a more dangerous place. john mccain want us to believe he needs to stay in washington to stay safer. i don't believe in the world staying safer since john mccain in the senate in 1987. >> you didn't and the question about iraq. would you have voted --
>> we have to listen to our national security and military and intelligence and takes this access. but then if those actions prove to be detrimental to our country and to our world we have to take a step back and learn from them. >> so you believe -- so what you are saying now is you may have voted for it because the intelligence supported it but in hindsight it was a mistake. is that how i should conclude -- >> it is easy to have 2020 hindsight. we need people who have new ideas in washington, d.c., new blood, new things outside the beltway. not rehashing things that have happened over and over. but we do have to learn from those mistakes we've made in the past. >> you've had tough words on john mccain. if you don't win the primary, are you going to support him in the general? >> you know, i probably will. we will see. but i don't plan to lose the primary or general. i'm actually the only republican that can win in the general election. john mccain is falling down on the job. he's gotten weak, he's gotten old.
i want to wish him a happy birthday. he will be 80 on monday and i want to give him the best birthday present ever, the gift of retirement. >> think he is too old to everyone is in the senate? >> you know, i think anyone who has been in washington for almost 40 years has been there too long. >> but you brought up his age. that's a tough attack. >> well i mean i'm a physician. i see the physiological changes that happen in normal aging, in patients again and again and again over the last 20, 25 years. i do know what happens to the body and mind at the end of life. >> you feel comfortable diagnosing him on air like this? >> diagnosing him as an 8 wil 0 80-year-old man, yes, i do. >> all right, kelli ward, thank you. we will be watching next tuesday. you got it, chuck. >> we will have the rest of today's headlines next. and power plants account for more than a third of energy-related carbon emissions. the challenge is to capture the emissions before they're released into the atmosphere.
let's update you on the polling we've seen today. michigan poll has hillary clinton up in a four-way race. clinton up big in the polls, other polls we have seen out of michigan this month. big deal if this is down to single digits. new poll from quinnipiac, clinton up 10 in two-way. up 50% but clinton's lead down to 7 points hitting 45 and johnson and stein down respectively. favorable ratings in that poll that are worth looking at. we'll be right back. hi, pete. i'm glad you called.
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time for the lid. panel is back. i want to go back to the start of the show and this whole alt-right business. tom coburn dismisses it. he wants to -- i know a lot of mainstream republicans want to say this is a fringe thing, it's somehow the left that's trying to make it a bigger deal. this isn't part of breitbart world that trust me, i see it, i feel it, we all get it, and i'm sure you have seen some evidence of this. how big is it? >> you know, coburn's argument was this is a small tiny faction of people and the media and hillary clinton are now tryin to smear the republican party with it. i think the issue is, who knows what donald trump believes. i think i have no idea what the guy's idealogical core is. certainly this tiny faction of breitbart news, the alt-right, has essentially foisted itself on to donald trump, who captured
the republican nomination. so this small, you know, lunatic faction of people now is running a presidential campaign and has some control over a presidential candidate and that makes it an absolutely legitimate issue. >> the reason i went to you first is because it's national review, its founder, your founder, kicked out essentially the john birch society. what's interesting, i have old footage here of the head of the john birch society in the '60s on "meet the press." take a listen to it. we do not have it yet. if we do, i will play it. in it, it's expressing very much nationalism, very much skepticism about international agreements and this had to do with nato, believe it or not, 1961. so there is some elements in there but conservatives in the past just booted them out. >> that's what i thought hillary did today. she did not give -- she said she was -- she gave donald trump is a racist speech. there were a few lines about alt-right but mostly she was stringing together, smart for her because she's trying to get millenials, people of color,
white college grads are her market. in some ways, they don't agree on much, they don't like her, all those groups, but they don't want to vote for someone who's intolerant. that's what she pushed hard. >> i have the clip. i just want to play it because it is amazing. >> mr. welch, if your society achieved its major objectives, wouldn't you accomplish what the soviet union wants to accomplish, destroy nato, the u.n., weaken our defenses? >> well, when you convince me the soviet union wants to destroy the united nations then i would argue with you. i see nothing to justify such an assumption. >> you still want to destroy nato? >> destroy any possible effectiveness of nato which i think has been pretty well destroyed. i have never been convinced that nato was effective at all. >> that was robert welch there from the john birch society back in '61. it's amazing some of the
similarities. >> it is. the rhetoric is remarkably similar in many respects. perry made the point i think correctly that what hillary clinton was trying to do was paint donald trump as a racist and present evidence that perhaps he was. i think what she was always trying to do which was much more insidious and much smarter frankly was basically to say they have captured the trump campaign, this alt-right movement and the republican party has a very difficult decision to make. are they going to be the republican party of 50 years ago and purge these people from the entire party, or are they going to embrace them and try to make them part of the movement. >> it comes back to your founder at national review and what rich was thinking about when you guys designed that issue. the infamous issue of #never trump. >> i think this is a bigger argument that will play out after november. i don't think it's going to be playing out on a larger stage much before that. but what you are starting to hear conservatives say is look, steve bannon and breitbart who have attached themselves to the trump campaign are more insidious and as conspiratorial
as robert welch and it's time for them or anybody who associates with them to be run out of polite society. i think that's the argument that will play out after the election. >> i think she's right if trump loses, there will be a rush to this. i felt ted cruz's speech to the republican convention was the first shot. >> yes. jeb bush, mitt romney was the first shot, i would say. but jeb -- >> jeb was from the right, though. >> exactly right. i do think that's where we are headed in some ways. hillary was interesting in that she is opposed to saying the republican party's been captured by the alt-right movement which some liberals say. she was the opposite which there are regular republicans who are still here, donald trump is a crazy on the fringe. >> i agree with you but what she was saying -- >> all right. i got to pause. i think that's right. she's trying to not color the republican party with this yet. thank you all. we'll be right back. more and more of everything online. and so many businees rely on the united states postal service to get it there.
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in case you missed it here's a story that hasn't been getting enough attention. the end is in sight for over 50 years of conflict. colombia's president declared a cease-fire against the farq rebel group. a peace deal is reaching the finishing stages after four years of negotiations. the longest running war in the americas forced five million people from their homes and racked up over 200,000 deaths. but it's the deal, it isn't in the books just yet. the accord needs to be ratified by the people of colombia some of which have openly protested
negotiations in the past. another deal with the national liberation army is still in the works as well but this accord is a serious step for a generation arguably two that has only known war. let's hope this does end as well as it appears it might. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm alex wagner. >> i'm john heilemann. "with all due respect" to donald trump, we heard about your minnesota ballot troubles and you should have known. lot of weird stuff happens up there. oh, yeah. you betcha. we have a good show for you tonight. okay.