knew that this was more than a possibility. >> absolutely. >> what have you learned? >> donald trump is a guy who respects loyalty, honors people who are loyal to him. i just hope he's getting advice about people outside the circle of loyal. >> they'll still be loyal. you're president now. they're going to be there. they're going to be begging. all right. that does it for us this morning. stephanie rule picks up the coverage right now. mika, hi there, i'm stephanie rule. this morning, transition troubles. reports of brutal infighting within team trump as loyalists jockey for powerful positions. one prime candidate who's purged is speaking out. >> there's a lot of folks that don't have any experience in what this might look like. there's a little bit of a vacuum in clear chains of command. >> surprise, surprise, donald trump firing back this morning amid new reporting he's requested his son-in-law get access to his presidential daily briefings. and under fire. democrats seizing on the appointment of steven bannon. >> to bring someone who is a

white supremacist into the white house to be a senior strategist. >> you nighting behind calls for him to be fired already. now new controversial audio of bannon has surfaced. >> you know, they wouldn't be a bunch of dykes that came from the seven, you know, the seven sisters up in new england. >> yeah, you heard that correct. that was steven bannon. those were his words. plus, night on the town. donald trump dishes the press making a surprise appearance at a new york steakhouse. his first time out in days but raising new questions about how secretive his new administration will be. we're going to begin this morning of course with presidential transition, a process one trump insider compared to a knife fight. well, that's a nice comparison. donald trump himself says he's got it all under control tweeting, very organized process taking place as i decide on cabinet and many other positions. i am the only one who knows who the finalists are. it sounds straight out of the

apprentice. well, we've got our team with us to do a little digging deeper into this quote. very organized process. first up, i want to bring in nbc's peter alexander. peter, what's the latest? >> let's start with vice president mike pence. he now is in charge of the transition process and has finally signed the documents necessary to put him in charge of that process. they're still waiting for the names to be added so they can move one step forward to let this process begin in earnest right now. officials within the trump transition team say that everything is, as you said from donald trump, going smoothly right now. that they're on schedule with under ten weeks to go until president-elect trump becomes president trump. but right now there's obviously some new shaking up going on inside. we have learned that mike pence and the executive director of the transition have now ordered that all lobbyists be removed from that transition team. just yesterday we had heard confirming with transition officials that a second senior defense and foreign policy official, a man who was helping coordinate the national security

experts to the transition team, matthew freedman, was removed from that transition team. we're also learning some new details. there are reports today that donald trump's former rival, ted cruz, is now at least being considered if not in real discussions with trump and his team about potentially becoming the next attorney general. cruz, of course, had thoughts perhaps that he might be running to be on top of the gop ticket in 2020. obviously donald trump will hold that slot so it would seem like a likely option for him. the former solicitor general of texas if he had interest in pursuing this going forward. finally, as for the names rudy giuliani, john bolton and others, aides said they're likely to get top spots in the trump administration. one republican senator, rand paul, has described them as representing the most bel bella interventionist. that's notable, stephanie, of course, because the republicans just have 52 votes in the senate right now.

they can't afford to lose very many of them. >> thanks, peter. wouldn't it be amazing when people get pushed off the transition team, if it happened in the board room at trump tower with donald saying, you're fired. that would just be extraordinary. we have to move on. donald and his team are now pushing back against reports that he wants his son-in-law to have top secret clearance in order to join him for briefings. this morning he took to twitter saying that the stories are false. nbc's kelly o'donnell has been reporting on this. kelly, what did you find out? >> reporter: well, steph, we've been learning over time that the son-in-law, obviously married to ivanka trump, has had an extraordinary seat at the table, whether it was the campaign and now in this emerging transition. he is a trusted confidante of the president-elect and it is notable that when donald trump went to visit with barack obama at the white house, jared was there and was seen walking the grounds with president obama's chief of staff, dennis mcdonagh. he's without title but with

extraordinary power. our sources tell us that for the daily briefings where the president-elect is allowed to have two people serve as staff companions if you will. as you're getting the information, if you need to task someone with following up on something, those two names are general flynn and jared kushner. now jared kushner does not have security clearance and a process would take a significant period of time but there is that problem of the anti-federal nepotism laws which for bid someone like the president from having any family member in an official capacity. there's some murky area here. it is unclear. there's been push back from the trump campaign, but sources say this was the intention of the president-elect to have his son-in-law closely with him and a part of the behind the scenes decision making. steph? >> thanks. last night the president-elect gave the media the slip so he could have dinner with his family at the 21 club. our own hallie jackson caught up with him anyway and recorded

some of donald trump's first public remarks. what happened? >> i sound like a stalker of. i want to dial that back. >> okay. >> here's the deal. a lot of people hear the story and they will go, so what? so the president-elect went and had dinner with his family. >> he has been locked up in trump tower for days. >> which is totally -- listen, president obama has dinner with his family. president-elect trump will have dinner with his family now and as president. here's the difference in what the president-elect did. he went essentially alone without that small pool of journalists who typically travel with him. that is a break in long standing protocol and precedent for presidents and president-elects because of the protective situation of god for bid if a worse case scenario were to happen, members, journalists there to record the president-elect's movements and to be there just in case, if you will. again, we're not talking about the entire press core, we're talking about a small group. your producers want me to play a little bit of the video of the president-elect from last night.

>> have a good meal. >> thank you. >> hi, mr. president-elect. >> thank you. >> forget your taxes. >> thank you. >> shaking hands. he was sort of -- as he was leaving people were very, i will say, just being in the restaurant respectful of him last night. not bothering the president-elect. they sort of stand up and clapped as he walked out. >> i do want to point out in that audio, 21 club is a really expensive new york city restaurant. he said there to someone, that's a place that has, you know, a $30 burger. i'm going to get your taxes down. when people across america hear something like that, i mean, it's got to make them scratch their head a little bit. people who voted for donald trump. >> that was sort of one moment that happened at the 21 club. i will say that there is a new statement out now from the white house correspondent's association that just popped into my e-mail from the president of the white house correspondent's association. there are reassurances by the trump transition team that it will respect long held access.

they believe it is unacceptable for him to travel without a regular pool. the trump president-elect spokesperson did tell nbc news this morning that they do want to put a protective pool in place. they are looking forward to implementing that. >> i'm totally impressed that his family wants to hang out with each other that much. i want to bring in steve schmidt. >> good morning. >> we're going crazy saying this transition is a mess, there's in fighting. help me understand, are all transitions messy? and this guy is an outsider. people voted for him because they did want something else. >> i think we're going to have a real sense in the next couple of weeks where the transition stands. i do think unusually everybody was surprised by the outcome of this, including truthfully a lot of people inside the trump organization. so it's been a week. we'll see over the next couple of weeks but, look, when governor pence or vice president-elect pence says we're getting all the lobbyists out of the transition, that's an

important step because donald trump promised to drain the swamp. so his eyes now turn to the transition team. he says, i've got a transition team filled a to z with lobbyists from washington, d.c., defenders of the status quo. that's not what i'm about. so this might be a moment where he actually is going to do what he says he's going to do, which is drain the swamp down there. and if that slows his process down, so be it. >> well, he is a family guy. he's got three of his children on his transition team. he may or may not be asking for security clearance for his kids or jared kushner. there's back and forth whether he is. if he is asking for clearance, what's the significance? >> so there's three levels of clearances. there are secret clearance, top secret and sci which is secure compartmentalized clearance. when you think of clearances, just because you can know doesn't mean you need to know. when you're dealing with classified information, it's on a need to know basis. so clearances go to positions

not to people. so as a general proposition, the notion that i want to have security clearances for my adult children is wholly, completely inappropriate and is a big mistake to go down that path. now in the case of jared kushner, he is a close advisor. he's clearly someone the president-elect wants on his white house staff but is impeded by 1967 anti-nepotism laws that they're going to have to figure out potentially with the congress how to work that through because ideally a president-elect, any president, should be able to surround himself with people that he trusts to be around and to advise him. >> but, steve, if it's on a need to know basis. >> right. >> his children, who won't have official titles and his son-in-law won't ever be in a need to know because they're just private citizens. >> i think the adult children who will be in the business have completely inappropriate to have

security clearances. it's the desire of the president-elect to have jared kushner serve in a senior position in the administration, that's a different issue entirely. >> will the laws have to change? >> and this 1967 law will potentially have to change. now interestingly, and there's some debate about this, jared kushner could potentially work on vice president pence's staff who is president of the senate and arguably not a member of the executive branch and vice president cheney once made this argument to the great consternation of president bush defending his prerogatives as vice president in an intergovernmental dispute. >> but how likely is it that one could say, you know what, we're going to change the law to give jared a job? could that happen? if that happens, well, let's change the blind trust law, too. >> i don't think jared needs a job. i think the issue is is can the president have the team of advisors that he wants? and if he relies on jared kushner and he trusts jared kushner, the president should

not be limited to have the voices he wants around him in the oval office. >> all right. >> in my view. >> before we go, i know we have no time left, there is no blind trust law. that's what i was trying to say. maybe change it. rudy giuliani, potentially secretary of state, what's your immediate reaction? >> well, look, he's going to go through all of these nominees will go through a senate confirmation process. >> yes, yes, yes, your opinion? >> i think rudy giuliani was one of the most effective leaders of government anywhere in the world over the last generation. he transformed new york city. he's somebody who grew up outside of this city. the pre-giuliani new york city and the post-giuliani new york city, we've seen giuliani's capacity for leadership. he has the ear of the president-elect. he may have difficulty though going through a confirmation process with regard to his businesses, his speaking fees, and his foreign entanglements as they're being described in the newspaper though.

but the blind dismissal of rudy giuliani as somebody who is unqualified to serve doesn't strike me as right because a lot of the people doing the dismissing have 1/10 the governing record that rude bring giuliani does. >> there you have it. steve schmidt doing new jersey proud. up next, newly discovered audio from 2011 painting an ugly picture of donald trump's chief strategist. >> you know, they wouldn't be a bunch of dykes that came from the seven sisters school up in new england. and, you know, that drives the left insane and that's why they hate these women. >> you heard that right. yup, that was steve bannon. a democratic senator leading the call for donald trump to fire mr. bannon joins me next. the decision to ride on and save money. he decided to save money by switching his motorcycle insurance to geico. there's no shame in saving money.

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what do you guys have planned? good day? are you going to name anymore positions today? >> likely. >> likely? anyone in particular? >> that, of course, was eric trump just moments ago saying that we will be getting some new names as soon as today. one name that has already been announced, steven bannon. and this is how senate majority leader mitch mcconnell handled it yesterday. >> senator mcconnell, steve bannon is to the left. are you comfortable to him having such a high level position in the trump administration? >> it's great to see you guys today. >> so no defense of bannon? >> i want to bring in democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon. senator, you are among a group of democratic senators who held a news conference yesterday calling on president-elect trump to drop steven bannon. why? >> oh, absolutely. to fire him. the faster the better.

this individual shouldn't be within 100 miles of the oval office. his website, breitbart, has been a source of hatred and division, attacks on hispanics, african-americans, lgbt community, the list goes on and on. we all hope that the type of rhetoric and attacks that donald trump entertained in the campaign would be things that he would put behind him as he assumes the mantle of leadership, but to bring this white nationalist with a specialist in the trade of hate into the oval office is an enormous mistake and we all need to speak out and say it's unacceptable here when we celebrate opportunity and freedom for all. >> senator, i want to play devil's advocate for a minute. we've said many of those things throughout the campaign and donald trump won and he won with steven bannon by his side. doesn't president-elect trump have a right to choose who he wants?

>> certainly, we saw the impact of his advice during the campaign. it was an effective campaign strategy, but i think everyone who cares about the opportunity at equality for all-americans, who wants to see an end to the divisiveness and hate of the campaign should stand up and say this goes contrary to all of the vision we have in our constitution, the division we have in our pledge of allegiance of justice for all. certainly what we see are attacks across america, thousands of attacks of bullying, verbal attacks on minorities, on african-americans, hispanics, lgbt community. this is the guy who engineered this vision, this strategy and he has no place in the office of the president of the united states. >> i want you to hear what civil liberties attorney alan dershowicz said yesterday specifically about steven bannon. >> always judge a person by the supporters, but i want to be very careful about calling him

an anti-semite unless there's more evidence. >> he's basically saying he doesn't believe there is evidence that steven bannon himself is an anti-semite or racist. >> well, certainly he's taking a great deal in posting a website to promote these views, in giving advice to a president to launch attacks against the president-elect, launch attacks against minorities. anyone who has doubts go and look at the breitbart archive. it is full. i mean, look at things such as promoting raising the banner high for the confederate flag after it was used as a symbol for the attack in the assassination, the murder of nine african-americans in south carolina. just one small example among the hundreds of examples from the business that he has been in. >> senator, breitbart news was up throughout the campaign. all of these headlines. we talked about this a lot. why do you think it didn't bother the american people and

they voted for donald trump? >> well, certainly bothered a lot of american people and the majority of americans did not vote for donald trump, but there were many issues in this campaign. there were economic issues in this campaign, but right now we are talking about the person who is going to be the chief strategist. is the strategy going to bring an expert on hate and division into the white house? and those of us who believe in a nation where -- whether -- whatever you're african-american, hispanic american, you're irish american, you have an equal opportunity to thrive. people don't bully each other. they celebrate what you can achieve based on your individual merits. that's the america of our constitutional vision that celebrates our diversity, and i think all of us who are calling on the president-elect to put aside the hate and division of the campaign are doing him a big favor. you will be far more effective on a host of issues if he isn't

dwelling in the politics of the division. >> senator, to those other issues you've seen donald trump's agenda. is there anything you can work with him on? >> certainly i agree with him on the trans-pacific partnership. i agree with him on investment and infrastructure. i agree with him on closing some of the egregious tax loopholes. i'm not at all confident that these will take a form that aren't full of poison pills but there's at least a starting point for discussion on several of the economic issues. we have seen the last four decades that virtually all new income america has gone to 10%, the top 10%. nine out of ten americans left out in the cold, those americans were very frustrated. many of them voted for donald trump saying we need dramatic change from the economic paradigm of the past. so we can work together to make that happen. >> senator, thanks so much for joining me this morning. >> you're welcome. coming up, we all know rudy giuliani as the mayor of new york during 9/11, but could his out of office actions stop him

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welcome back. you are watching msnbc. it is time now for your morning primer. everything you need to know to start your day. donald trump caused quite a stir last night when he gave his press pool the slip for an unannounced dinner at a manhattan steakhouse. trump was greeted with applause and shook hands with some of the patrons before sitting down with a meal for his family. house democrats have postponed today's leadership elections to november 30th. no one has formally challenged minority leader nancy pelosi's seat, but the delay could allow time for ohio congressman tim ryan to emerge as a potential challenger. president obama delivered a speech on globalization in athens, greece, this morning as part of his final foreign trip as president. this comes after a night of unrest in which thousands protested his visit. police had to disperse the crowds with tear gas and stun

grenades. a deadly shooting puts oklahoma's biggest airline on lockdown. a southwest airlines employee, the father of an nfl player was killed in what police called a -- excuse me. in a shooting. the suspected gunman was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. last night the kansas jayhawks knocked off the top ranked duke blue devils in a 77-75 win at madison square garden. who is rudy giuliani? rudy giuliani has emerged as the leading candidate for secretary of state. and that is not sitting well with many people who question his qualifications to become the nation's top diplomat. joining me now is a man who knows him well. long-time journalist andrew kertzman, he wrote a book, "rudy giuliani, emperor of the city." welcome. you know rudy giuliani well.

is he qualified to be secretary of state? >> well, he's not a born diplomat. he's a very smart, very strategic, very effective public figure who's kind of a blunt instrument. i mean, this is a man who threw yasir arafat out of lincoln center. he's not cut from the james baker or george schultz world. he's a very surprising choice for a role that calls for diplomacy. >> but is he? because the way you describe him is sort of what donald trump's platform was and those supporters who said shake up washington, drain the swamp, we want something else. >> right. right. you can see why donald trump would be attracted to that personality and also there is an element of political pay back here for giuliani's support in the campaign. you know, donald trump and giuliani have very similar personalities, right? they're very against political

correctness, they're not afraid to take very strong kind of antagonistic action towards their enemies. you know, one interesting thing to watch if giuliani gets this job is how the two of them get -- you know, get along. i mean, giuliani is not a soldier. giuliani is a general. and it's -- it's going to be interesting to see, you know, you're talking about two alpha males here, to see whether giuliani actually can take orders from a strong personality as his boss. >> well, he certainly seemed to during his campaign. he marched out using those talking points day in and day out. he's almost loyal to a fault? >> you know, he had a goal he wanted to attain. he went out in a rabid fashion. the video from the convention shows. giuliani's personality has gotten sharper and more

bellacose as the years have gone on. you know, i find it hard to believe that he would be kind of a good soldier without some bumps along the way? you've been reporting on him for years. for one, they've said he's worked with foreign governments like qatar. he's given speeches to an iranian opposition group that until just a few years ago was on the state department's list of terrorist groups. we know he has ties to triglobal. they have interest in the former soviet union and in 2006 the times said he made 11 million bucks in speeches and it was speeches in what rudy giuliani went after hillary clinton how much she got paid. >> well, there's one example that hasn't even been written about. i wrote a story from the new republic. giuliani went to serbia and advised a candidate for mayor of belgrade who had worked for the regime of slobodan milosevimilo.

he ran the murder rouse regime in serbia and went to court for genocide. his running mate, his name, pardon the pro nuns psiation here, tomoslov nikolate is the president of serbia. under milosevic he was known as the undertaker. these are real bad people. >> and rudy giuliani has been paid by these people? >> that's right. he went on television in serbia and said he was there as an economic advisor -- >> what is rudy giuliani's economic experience? >> he ran new york city. he cut taxes. he didn't have much foreign affairs experience but giuliani, you know, has a claim to understand economics from running the country's biggest, most important city, i guess. >> can he get senate confirmation in your opinion? >> it's going to be a republican

senate. trump wants him. giuliani is popular among republicans. crap shoot right now. >> crap shoot. thank you so much. wow. really insightful. appreciate it. coming up. donald trump is the self-described king of debt. could his personal balances due to foreign banks create issues with his administration's foreign policy. one of millions of orders on this company's servers. accessible by thousands of suppliers and employees globally. but with cyber threats on the rise, mary's data could be under attack. with the help of at&t, and security that senses and mitigates cyber threats, their critical data is safer than ever. giving them the agility to be open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t.

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i'm the king of debt. i'm great with debt. nobody knows debt better than me. >> king of debt. donald trump loves debt. he has made no secret of that. he has lots of it. that could be a big problem once he's president. want to look at some of the numbers. $650 million. that's what the "new york times" says trump himself owes lenders. $2 billion, that's the amount of debt owed by the various partnerships his wealth is tied up in according to the times. >> i'm the king of debt. i love debt. >> that's a lot of money at stake. and to whom he owes that money becomes very important once he's

president. $300 million, that's what the trump organization owes deutsch bank. it's not an american bank, it's a german one. his company is in debt to a german bank, bigly. they're currently in a fight with the u.s. justice department. they want the bank to pay $14 billion over their role in the subprime lending mess and trump's justice department will now oversee that case. deutsche bank, they don't want to pay $14 billion. to china now, a country that trump has talked a lot about. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> and another number. $950 million. that's what the "new york times" says he owes one of his buildings here in manhattan and the biggest lender, the bank of china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> a country he says he is going to tough talk to and renegotiate

trade deals with, but we know that some portion of his wealth is tied up there. >> i do love debt. i love debt. i love playing with it. >> we only have a small picture of his debt since he has not released his taxes. a sure way to be totally free of conflict of interest, to put his money in a blind trust. what that really means, i want to bring in my friend alley velshi. we've been talking about this, ali. i want to clarify. he doesn't have to put his money in a blind trust. >> he could liquidate it. that is the simplest thing is to do. >> what would that look like? >> it's property and licensing. property you want to get it -- you want to sell it in a market that's favorable to you. a lot of these licensing deals, they're long-term contracts to put your name on a building, put it on underwear or socks or whatever. it takes some work to get out of it. it would have no conflict of interest aside of what you talked about with the debt. if he did that he'd get a check

and then he couldn't invest that in the same way most people can. he can invest it as if you had a 401 k broadly in the market in stocks or bonds. in things you can't have immediate impact upon. he can't take the big chunk of money he gets from investing it and then buy some highly specific investment that he could, again, have influence over. so even that he might have to put into a blind trust. a blind trust means blind. means you're covered. you can't see what it is. you give it to somebody who liquidates and then manages it in a way that you can't consult with them on. that is something that doesn't seem in his nature, doesn't seem like he wants to do as i've seen you discussing it. the whole concept that he says he wants to give it to his kids, that's not blind. that's not blind. even if he didn't give it to his kids and he gave it to an independent person, he would knows he owns buildings with trump on them. you have to be disclosed about what you've got. we don't know what his debts are unless we know where his business interests are, we don't know whether he's influencing

them. >> back to liquidation. he's got sticky assets. >> right. >> if he were forced, if he were asked, if he voluntarily chose to liquidate, he'd be doing it at a big loss. >> yes. unless he was in some moment where property was at a great value. yes, having to liquidate in a short amount of time, that kind of money, you wouldn't advise an individual to do it. it would be very hard for him. so one way or the other, he's not looking at making money out of this deal. he's trying to hang on to his assets so that he gets them back at the end of his presidency might be hard to do. >> tricky with a lot of scrutiny. thank you so much. coming up, congressman steve king joins me on donald trump's controversial selection of steve bannon as chief strategist and whether he wants him to head the department of homeland security. (announcer vo) when you have type 2 diabetes

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complex in manhattan petitioned their landlord, equity residential, to change the name of its three trump buildings. these buildings on the west side have trump emblazoned on them. 600 people in the building's residence signed the petition. some said i want my home to be a place of peace, not politics, and they signed the petitions. others were far more aggressive and said what donald trump stood for in the campaign they did not. remember, new york city didn't necessarily vote for donald trump. donald trump doesn't own the building so today, there you have it, his name, his gold name comes down. all right. we want to go back now to donald trump's transition and the initial reviews of the transition have been mixed at best. reports of in fighting and turmoil surround the team even as donald trump himself says everything is going smoothly. joining me now, republican iowa congressman steve king. good morning, congressman. >> good morning. thank you. >> we have seen top republicans like mitch mcconnell refusing to

publicly support steve bannon. what do you think? >> well, i think mitch mcconnell should get to know steve bannon as i do. i've known steve bannon for years. he is a brilliant strategist, a dedicated patriot. he's a historian, an amazing historian. and he believes in the same things that donald trump does and that mitch mcconnell at least asserts that he does. so i don't know why he wouldn't support steve bannon. there have been a lot of false accusations made about him and i think once we get down to the truth, mitch mcconnell will come around. >> just a few minutes ago i heard steve bannon on tape say liberal dykes. are you okay with that? >> i hadn't heard that tape and i don't know what the context of it would be in. no, i wouldn't say i was either okay with it or not okay with it. one thing we learned was even though donald trump had some remarks 11 years ago, the voters looked at it far more pragmatically than that and i think that's how we should be looking at this. >> your name is being floated for the head of homeland security. are you interested in the job?

>> well, it fits the background that i have. i have been toiling away here on the immigration committee for 14 years. i spent a lot of time on the border. i've been to 50 or 60 foreign countries and dealt with our national security, our domestic security and done battle against terrorists, but that would be something that would come out of president-elect trump or his transition team and any time a president would call, all of us should answer. >> so you're interested in the job. do you believe there should be a muslim ban? >> well, i think that's an interesting proposal and i have not discussed that until just today for the first time. i'd like to see all the ramifications of that, hear the arguments on both sides. when donald trump came out and first said no muslims coming into america because of the terrorist attacks that are here and across the country -- across the world into europe, then he backed that back a little bit and said, well, nobody from those countries, the countries that are essentially spawning terrorists. i think we look at this whole

picture and i know that from a refugee standpoint, that's primarily what this is addressing as i believe, that the united nations, the u.n. high commission on refugees, evaluates them. they had 115,000 refugees that they had cleared. 15,000 of them were christians and the rest were muslims but our administration refuses to even identify who is and who isn't. i think we can do a far better job of that and when we bring people into this country, we ought to have a database on who they are. we ought to be able to track them and, by the way, we can do far more to help them if we establish 9 international safe zones in their home countries where they have lived since antiquity. that's for more important than thinking we can solve this problem by bringing everybody who believes that they are afraid of something into the united states. >> so muslim registry, is that something you'd like? >> remove the what? >> a registry? you'd like a muslim registry? >> well, i don't know whether that's the legacy or not.

an immigration policy for america should be designed to enhance the economic, the social and the cultural well-being of the united states. we don't have an immigration policy because we think we can drain all the poverty off the world or we can bring in all the people who are refugees from wars or strife or especially economic refugees. we need to have an immigration policy that builds america, makes us stronger. we've gotten away from that dialogue over the last 10, 15, 20 years especially barack obama. wherever i might be throughout this administration, whether it's in congress or someplace else, i'm going to continue to make this case. secure our borders. build a fancy wall, build a fence, rachet these numbers down some. we don't have an uneducated labor supply. we have plenty of people at the low skilled level. a tighter labor supply brings up wages and benefits and lets america stand on her own two feet better and lets them

promote american values around the world and so the american values that's made us prosperous. they can earn their own prosperity with our support. >> can you help me understand what american values means? you tweeted cultural suicide by demographic transformation must end. what does that mean? >> okay. look at europe. they have opened up their doors. angela merkel said that everybody come into germany, we'll take care of you, and i have walked in that river of the epic migration that's poured into europe. i've gone into the no go zones in places like paris, london, in brussels and stockholm, for example. i can see what's happening. you've got political movements now to reclaim their sovereignty and their nationality in europe. think of this, if we brought let's just say a billion people from the continent of india, indians into america, would that change america? would we ever become that which we are and have been, the america that i love and continue to love or would it transform

us? if we did that with a billion chinese, of course it would change us. cultural transformation, we need people that buy into the american culture, the american civilization, the american dream and eventually we need to get the assimilation so that we have cultural continuity on top of that. >> couldn't native splerns said that? this is a country of immigrants. >> well, i'll just challenge you. name a country that's not a country of immigrants. every nation is a country of immigrants. these are our values that are here. >> greece is not a country -- greece is not a country of immigrants. >> well, it was a greece not that long ago i asked why when they were digging up the statues that had their hair painted blond why i don't see very many blond greeks. the guide said that's what 400 years of turkish occupation will do for you. maybe by conquest, maybe not by peaceful reasons. >> thank you so much for joining me this morning. i appreciate it. >> yes, thank you. coming up, an exclusive interview with a man for the

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moments ago, vice president. elect mike pence arrived at the u.s. chamber of commerce. pence is also heading up donald trump's transition team. of course, he's got a lot of work to do these days. so does our president. president obama, meanwhile, is in the middle of his final foreign trip. by his side is the official white house photographer pete sous sa. nbc's chris jansing has an exclusive with the man who has captured the obamas' era and memorable moments. >> no white house photographer has ever had the kind of access pete sousa has had. now 2 million photos into the obama administration, he's here with me in greece. >> thanks for having me. >> let's talk about today, because aides have told me the president has always wanted to go to the acropless.

you've taken iconic photos him in rio at the christ redeeper st redeeper statue, at stonehenge. >> for cries the redeamer and stonehenge, it was a tricky notion of what i would get. today, i have been to the acropolis. i have in the back of my mind what this place looks like. my job is to hopefully place him in that setting. >> he has been a formal president, like every president. standing behind those podiums yesterday with the prime minister of greece. but you have also seen him at his most unguarded. who is the barack obama that most people don't know or see that you see and know? >> how many hours do you have? >> yeah, tell me. >> i mean, he is not that much different than what you see in public. i think he's a little more open and funny and less guarded

obviously. but he's still the same person that you see. in public and be in my photographs. i think a lot of my photographs really show who he really is. >> pete sousa, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> can i just say, when we're all going to go on to berlin, there's another iconic photo that's come to be known as the sound of music photo between president obama and angela merkel. will he find another one of those photos that go viral. we'll find out. back to you. >> a week since donald trump's election, the transition process has seemed to be anything but smooth. the communications director for the trump transition will be here. but next, why two heads are not always better than one. whoa, this is awful, try it. oh no, that looks gross what is that? you gotta try it, it's terrible. i don't wanna try it if it's terrible. it's like mango chutney and burnt hair.

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together and it turned out it might not have been a good idea. the two coming together to celebrate on the court. they do a head-butt and, man, they realize at that moment probably wasn't a good idea. head-butt hurts. a high five or a fist bump might be a better option next time, guys. the good thing is, they won the game. all right, that wraps us up for the hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. i will see you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. and all day long on twitter. coming up, more news with kristen welker. >> all right, right now, breaks in the ranks. president-elect donald trump says his transition into the white house is smooth sailing but this morning more evidence to the contrary pointing to a team plagued why turmoil and infighting. the cabinet still bare. no new hires for his incoming administration. as resignations and firings pile up. vice president-elect mike pence now running all aspects of the transition. nbc news con firming he's ordered the removal of all lobbyists. that follows the abrupt exit of

a key national security adviser. it's the latest on what insiders describe as a stalin-esque purge. >> i think there is some confusion going on. about a chain of command coming out of new york. hopefully they'll get that settled pretty soon. i think they'll need to do it. as this clock ticks, all of these decisions become more important and you have to make them sooner, with a little more authority and a little more forward thinking, to make sure they don't bump into anything in the future. >> for those remaining inside the so-called circle of trust, new and renewed scrutiny. reports of conflict of interest for rudy giuliani and chief strategist steve bannon under fire for using derogatory language towards women in a 2011 radio interview. >> the women that would lead this country would be -- they would be pro-family, they would have husbands, they would love their children, you know, they wouldn't be a bunch of dykes that came from the seven sisters